Opinion on "Looks"

[lutgardis]

Don't worry this is not a blackpill post. But after I started going out a lot, I noticed some things that I wanna share and ask your opinion on the same.

In my personal anecdote, "looks don't matter". Now I have a good reason for this. If you look like Brad Pitt, will girls look at you and you will have an easier time? Yes. Does this mean looks matter? Well keep reading. If you look like an ugly troglodyte, will girls look at you with curiosity? Yes. Will you have a harder time? Yes. However, if you are average looking like most people, most girls won't look at you. You will be kind of a background character. So for most people, looks do not matter.

So how do you escape being a background character? Approach. With cold approach, attraction is immediate because you kind of get that main character energy. Girls concentrate solely on you and no one else in the background.

I have another personal anecdote for this, I have friends who look better than me and when I approach the girl (with the friend not speaking at all but standing beside me), they would just concentrate on me. Like the friend didn't exist at all. It went the same away when my friend approached (they don't pay attention to me at all even if I am standing right beside him). So when I approach with full confidence, some of these girls' eyes just light up as if they seen Brad Pitt irl. But lemme tell you, these same girls wouldn't give me time of their day if I met them in a social setting. Because then, I don't stand out and there is competition with other guys, who will also be talking to her in that social setting. You beat that competition by cold approaching. Cold approach is like a cheat code.

Btw apart from confidence, stuff like pre-selection or any thing that adds value also causes attraction.

TLDR:- In regards to most men, looks don't matter. Confidence matters more than looks. Same girl can reject you or accept you depending on the confidence that you demonstrate and not your looks. You just gotta pass the looks threshold which you will, unless you look like an ugly troglodyte. And demonstrating high confidence can be done via cold approaching.

What do you guys think? This is what I have noticed so far in my pickup journey.

 

[Adventurer]

Don't worry this is not a blackpill post. But after I started going out a lot, I noticed some things that I wanna share and ask your opinion on the same.

In my personal anecdote, "looks don't matter". Now I have a good reason for this. If you look like Brad Pitt, will girls look at you and you will have an easier time? Yes. Does this mean looks matter? Well keep reading. If you look like an ugly troglodyte, will girls look at you with curiosity? Yes. Will you have a harder time? Yes. However, if you are average looking like most people, most girls won't look at you. You will be kind of a background character. So for most people, looks do not matter.

So how do you escape being a background character? Approach. With cold approach, attraction is immediate because you kind of get that main character energy. Girls concentrate solely on you and no one else in the background.

I have another personal anecdote for this, I have friends who look better than me and when I approach the girl (with the friend not speaking at all but standing beside me), they would just concentrate on me. Like the friend didn't exist at all. It went the same away when my friend approached (they don't pay attention to me at all even if I am standing right beside him). So when I approach with full confidence, some of these girls' eyes just light up as if they seen Brad Pitt irl. But lemme tell you, these same girls wouldn't give me time of their day if I met them in a social setting. Because then, I don't stand out and there is competition with other guys, who will also be talking to her in that social setting. You beat that competition by cold approaching. Cold approach is like a cheat code.

Btw apart from confidence, stuff like pre-selection or any thing that adds value also causes attraction.

TLDR:- In regards to most men, looks don't matter. Confidence matters more than looks. Same girl can reject you or accept you depending on the confidence that you demonstrate and not your looks. You just gotta pass the looks threshold which you will, unless you look like an ugly troglodyte. And demonstrating high confidence can be done via cold approaching.

What do you guys think? This is what I have noticed so far in my pickup journey.

I have the same opinion, if you look normal and/or cool and meet basic looks thresholds (most of which is basic fashion, hygiene and grooming) everything is fine

I noticed what happens when you fall below looks thresholds though. When I traveled, I gained a bit of weight and it was not easy to find a gym or hair salons sometimes, so I was not looking as good. Guys start to doubt you to your face when you talk about your experiences with girls, and more importantly, other people will try to talk shit about you to your girls when they think you're not listening

"Who is that guy, he looks terrible, you can do better" becomes something you have to deal with I had no idea

So yeah fundamentals are not the end of seduction but they are pretty important

 

[KJ Francis]

Reminded me of this thread from Warped Mindless regarding her looks threshold.

The Relationship Between Attraction, Seduction, and Game Explained!

Introduction In this article I’m going to shatter some common misconceptions by not only explaining what “Game,” “seduction” and “attraction” are but also how they relate to one another. But first, label each of the following statements as true or false: Attraction and seduction are the same...

www.skilledseducer.com

But yeah, I agree looks (at least natural facial handsomeness) are far less important to girls in mate evaluation than they are to us. I suppose a good looking guy signals that his male ancestry was able to seduce and mate with good looking women, so his genes are sort of preselected, but that's kind of a reach.

Regardless, I think girls screen more for your behavior, which takes more time to convey via your personality and game. I guess our mate value is more action-oriented, tied to safety and protection ability, etc. plus talents that may get passed on through our genes. Her value would be more tied to looks due to fertility reasons and current-time ability to host the child, breastfeed, etc. Why else would we be attracted to tits if not to fulfill their function for our offspring?

I think facial symmetry signifies internal body health to a degree? Not sure. I wonder why we evolved to like a "pretty face" in general though. I am finding this interesting to think about.

But yeah, in terms of female-to-male interest, I'm sure being extremely outlier-level handsome is an indicator of some good genes, but otherwise I'd agree you just need a passing grade (or maybe B-).

 

[Skills]

subject beaten to death

Best explanation I have ever found on looks matter theory (featuring Alex Novy from Sleazy forum) - The Skills Method

All questions and doubts that you ever had on looks mattering when it comes to seduction are answer in this blog.

www.theskillsmethod.com

Socializing - My experience with my "rating dudes looks stage" and why is such a massive waste of time and inaccurate

So couple of years back some of you from other forums remember i went through a strong coping/looks maxing stage that drove everyone crazy specially and sad to say may have contribute for the destruction of the forum... Now that i look back as when i read guys that are going through similar...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Bismarck]

The better your self-presentation (haircut, skincare, eyebrow plucking, beard (or clean shaven), style (clothes, eventual jewelry), physical fitness, and posture, the less game you need.

Think about the aforementioned features as passive attraction streams. That said, you still need to approach. It is indeed a cheat code.

There is one final item: vibe (which can be gleaned, to a point, from your facial expression). And for that, your life needs to be in order, and you need to be going places. (Maslow: health, friends, love, career/work)

 

[KJ Francis]

Post by Gunwitch on his mathematical formula.

Source: https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/gunwitch-method-the-way-to-get-laid.46286/

Looks count, though perhaps not as much as is typically presumed. As was discussed in Section 2, women think MUCH like men when it comes to mating.

To illustrate my point on this:

Imagine being alone in a room, with an ugly or mediocre woman. She comes over and lays her head on your lap. You hear her whisper, "I like you a lot". She smiles, comes up, and kisses you. Your friends are not there, and they will never know. You are getting more turned on as she rubs your upper legs, inching closer, closer, and closer to your crotch. What are you gonna do to stop her? Answer this only to yourself - not to friends or people who could judge you - and you’ll know that you’d likely have sex with her. ONLY in the case that she is nearly deformed, smells bad, or is morbidly obese ect., would you be likely to turn her down. Essentially, you’d only turn her down if she failed turn you on at that time.

To further explicate, consider the following. Not an exact science by any means, but perhaps a rough model of what you can generally expect.

Looks, Effort, and their Interrelation:

Looks scale: -1- being the worst conceivable, and –10- being the best.
Effort scale (amount of women approached and overall drive to ensure sex with them): -1- being utterly rarely, -5- being a few on weekends or acquaintances from social circles, and -10- being at least three new women per day. –1- drive = will say hello to a woman but not much else, -5- will try to get her interested in him until the first sign of trouble or disinterest, -10- will outright make her become angry or verbally reject you 100% before even considering moving on.

Take a guy who is a –1- in looks (perhaps fat, short, hideous face, balding, old, smelly, poorly dressed, etc.), but a -10- in effort. This guy will STILL land women who are -5.5s- once in while, and –3s- frequently.

To explain, allocate 1 total point for every 2 points on the scale, for what you can get with maximum effort. So, if you are a –10- in looks, but only exert a –1- in effort, you can probably still sex -5.5s- (ie. 11 divided by 2) on occasion, and approximately half of that, or -3s-, whenever you are inclined. Eventually you will arrive at someplace in between your –maximum- capacity and your –easy- capacity for your regular quality of women.

I, for instance, am maybe an –8- in looks (short, ok face, good built body, well dressed and groomed), and a –10- in effort. So dividing by two, we allocate 4 points for looks and 5 points for effort, arriving at a 9 at –maximum- capacity, and approx. 5 at –easy- capacity. I have of course gotten some 10s in my day, but that's just the deviation, as women higher than 6 would be for Example Guy #1. So to recap:

Example Guy 1:

-1-LOOKS + -10-EFFORT = 11,

THEREFORE,

MAXIMUM CAPACITY = 5.5, EASY CAPACITY = approx. 3

Gunwitch:

-8-LOOKS + -10-EFFORT = 18,

THEREFORE,

MAXIMUM CAPACITY = 9, EASY CAPACITY = approx. 5

What creates the extra points from effort is that you meet MORE women, so SOME of these women will find even the guy with –1-looks/-10-effort somewhat attractive. Probably the best that he will ever do is a 6 who somehow finds him attractive. Mr –10-looks/-1-effort could go out approaching at a 5.5 in effort and change his whole lot, because he would meet so many more women who would find him attractive, or who have trouble saying no to his advances, but instead he takes the easy ones. His loss. By the way, Mr.-10-looks/-1-effort, and Mr. –1-looks/-10-effort are both REAL people that I know, and it works out about the same for both of them with women. If Mr. –1-looks/-10-effort suddenly stopped meeting and trying to seduce new women, he would probably go to his grave never having had sex again, unless maybe with some chance woman of his low calibre were to come along and make the effort herself.

 

[Will_V]

Looks is good to have, taking care of your appearance is great, but I've found nothing more effective than vibe. It's basically a wildcard that, unless someone has a super hard filter that catches on something else about you, trumps everything else. When you have a great vibe people just want to look at you, be around you, and talk to you. When my vibe is on point, I can be dressed like shit and still engage her, and when it's not, my presentation doesn't seem to help very much.

The problem is, it's very hard to describe things like vibe or charisma in a technical way. It's something that everyone's subconscious is very sensitive to, and responds strongly to, but can't be pinpointed in one or even a few specific things. Like @Bismarck said it is most strongly projected through the face, but also in posture, movement, and tone.

The way I think of it, everyone has a view of the world around them, and their own place within it. This framework is responsible for their emotional reality, which influences their thoughts, and those thoughts in turn influence their emotions, and so on back and forth. The resulting emotions reside in their facial expression, their posture, their diaphragm, etc as muscular tension and micro-expressions. Since the face, the tone, and the body are responsible for most of their communication, every person projects outward into the world a resounding concept of 'this is the world as I see it, and this is who I am'.

Because the back and forth between emotions and thoughts, and the resulting formation of expressions in the body, goes on non-stop all day, it's basically impossible to resist consciously, and over long periods of time calcify into a more or less permanent reflection of that person's internal state, so that even if they want to express something different momentarily, the new expression clashes with the expressions that have already taken over the body, creating an unpleasant noisy interference that makes other people uncomfortable. Not to mention that the internal experience of conflicting emotion and clashing expressions is unpleasant in itself, creating negative emotion on its own.

The simplest way I can describe what I believe to be the best sort of vibe is: mental peace + forward projection. Without the first you cannot communicate cleanly or be present, and without the second you can't be effective. That's why, even though I like meditation as a means of achieving mental peace, I always prefer active meditation when possible - i.e. practicing being present during some kind of activity. That way it's a lot easier to maintain mental peace while actively pursuing a goal.

When you experience something as an active meditation, it makes actions effortless and somehow exist outside the realm of conscious judgement. Everything you do - the way you move, the way you speak, reaching out to touch her - sort of happens by itself, as a natural precipitation of desire, rather than something you try to do in a conscious way. And women respond most strongly to the actions men take that come directly from his libido and his drive, rather than from his head.