Marriage Outgrowing wife

[Imblue]

I wonder whether this is a common phenomenon among upwardly mobile guys who got married early. TLDR: I’ve been successful in my career and reached an age where my SMV is much higher and I now feel I can do better than my wife.

I met my wife when we were both 18 in university, we started dating, and we got married at 24. We’ve had 2 kids since and are now in in our early 30’s. I’ve been very successful in my career as a lawyer and we have a very comfortable life. If nothing changes we’ll raise 2+ wonderful children and have a very nice upper-middle class life. The problem is that I now have regrets over my choice of a wife. She treats me and the kids well. But she is not very pretty and not very smart.

I was actually quite popular in highschool. I had a lot of girls that liked me and dated some but I was too much of a nice guy to be a player. Always in LTR and was totally bluepill. University was the opposite experience. It was a very competitive school and I did terrible academically because I had bad work habits from coasting through highschool on my brains. It was also a bit of a culture shock and I had almost zero social life. I didn’t get much interest from girls and I hated my time at university.

I met my wife at university. I continued to be bluepill and her circle became my social circle for the rest of my university days. Same thing continued in law school.

Things started to change once I entered the workforce. Turns out that I may suck at school but I do pretty well in the workforce. Partners were happy with my work and I became a rising star. I’m earning more than my parents ever did. I’m getting the confidence back that I had in highschool and I guess girls are noticing because I start to feel more attention from girls.

Now my friends are also marrying. It’s petty, but their wives are much prettier and smarter than my wife (and they seem fine personality-wise). What irritates me even more is that these are guys who look up to me. This and the IOUs I get tell me that I could do much better than my wife in terms of looks and smarts.

My wife at best is probably 6/10. My best friend who told me to dump her when we first started dating said she was a 4/10. She was plain when she was 18, not pretty enough to be girl-next-door cute, but not ugly. Over the years she hasn’t put on weight, but she also now doesn’t have the youth of an 18 year old (which can make almost any girl somewhat pretty). In my social circles, the gfs/wives are generally 7-9/10 and loads of them are in prestigious jobs like lawyers/doctors/consultant, etc. My wife did a degree in biology with not particularly good grades and works a nondescript clerical government job.

In pre-modern times a guy in my position would have taken a second wife right? Or at least a young, pretty mistress? Is that why we have the idea of a starter/first wife?

I don’t know if I’m going through an early mid-life crisis or something. I don’t want to do anything to hurt my kids or my wife unnecessarily. I think it’s a big lesson to you young guys out there to listen to the advice on this site and in the manosphere to fulfill your SMV potential before settling down. I wish I had learned of this site earlier.

I’m probably coming across as a complete asshole to my wife and kids. But I’m just trying to be completely transparent. Like I said I can’t be alone and this must be a pretty common phenomenon among guys who married before their SMV peak.

I have no idea what to do and would love to get some feedback and recommendations that don’t blow up my family.

 

[Derek da man]

I’m probably coming across as a complete asshole to my wife and kids.

A little, but I can also relate to your position

It sounds to me like you've done very well in life, probably as you're highly competitive and want to be seen as doing better than your colleagues. So far you've done that in work and personal life as you said they look up to you. I'm guessing you're a safe, stable pair of hands that looks after friends and gives good solid advice.

Just because your wife isn't the best looking model in the show room that doesn't mean she isn't worth keeping hold of. I suspect she does a good job of looking after your house and kids while you are working. She keeps you fed well and warm at night, and most importantly she's loyal to you even though I'm sure you're not perfect. She would still be with you and loyal even if you didn't have your position in life. That counts for a lot.

You could easily pick up a younger, prettier, more intelligent, faster model BUT would she take you for who you are, or for you money, wealth and power. You friends may appear to have better than you but don't assume that their home life is as they portray it as they project what they want you to see not what is reality. A lot goes on behind closed doors and it won't be as they make out as anything less than "perfect" would result in not meeting up to your standards, which is why they look up to you, and if they don't meet your standards then there is a potential that you would think less of them - It's a male ego thing about trying to look good to friends instead of being realistic about life.

Grass will always appear greener on the other side, as soon as you are on the other side you will see what you really had. I'm not saying don't make changes but think through those changes and what they will really result in.

Will having a hotter, prettier wife make you happy? She will get older like we all do.

Does the power, authority, responsibility, etc at work "make you happy" or feed your ego.

Do you want happiness or success? They are not the same thing.

It sounds to me like you need a new challenge in life - something big, a longer term goal to work towards, that is also competitive. Chasing women is probably not going to meet your needs in the longer term.

We all have to make choices in life, some peoples choices are limted to making the most and getting by financially. It looks to me like you're lucky enough to be able to make choices beyond those, so try and work out what it is you really want in the long term before doing something that you may not be able to undo.

 

[POB]

I’m probably coming across as a complete asshole to my wife and kids. But I’m just trying to be completely transparent. Like I said I can’t be alone and this must be a pretty common phenomenon among guys who married before their SMV peak.

I have no idea what to do and would love to get some feedback and recommendations that don’t blow up my family.

You are not being an asshole....this is very common in our journey as men.

Every one of us should probably go through a "wrecking ball" phase where we get pussy for pussy (some guys refer to it as the fuckaton phase). Once you get it out of your system and realize it was fun, but not that big of a deal, you are probably mature enough to open some space in your heart for when that special lady come up.

My guess is you are just missing that phase because you've never experienced it. In your case things get way more complicated because wife and kids are already in place! Although you're a decent guy and willing to put them into consideration, wanting to experience life at it's fullest is a natural step towards happiness and fulfillment as a man!

There's no easy answer here...
- if you stay with your wife, you can try to open things up and discreetly get FBs on the side with her consent...but you never gonna feel the freedom and abundance a seducer gets when he is single...plus you won't be able to develop emotions for those new chicks, as they are there just as friends for sex
- if you leave your wife, you gonna go through a terrible phase, even if the split is amicable...triple that if you don't have a prenup, as she can divorce rape you and fuck-up your financial life for a long long time...also you probably won't see your kids as much....but a new world of experiences will open up (as long as you are willing to put in the work).

Makes sense?

 

[Chase]

@Imblue,

It’s quite common in couples that wed young for one partner to outgrow the other in developed societies. Developed society development doesn’t really slow down until you reach your mid-30s or so, and the younger you marry the more likely you are that one of the partners leaves the other in the dust sooner or later.

In defense of your wife, while she may not be as smart / ambitious as your friends’ wives, she’s probably also sacrificed in her career a fair bit to raise the kids. Your friends who are marrying now have new, so-far-childless wives who haven’t had to pick between career and mothering yet. In that way it’s comparing apples to oranges a bit.

The looks issue is a bigger challenge. There’s a study that divides both men and women into two camps, Satisficers and Maximizers. It’s fascinating. They find that “Satisficer Men” (i.e., men looking for a woman who is merely “good enough”) are actually happier with their marriages the less attractive their wives are. Thus all the manosphere men who recommend “hook up with the hot girl but marry the plain one”, I suppose. However, for the Maximizer men (i.e., men who want the best), satisfaction goes up a lot the more beautiful their wives are… and down a lot the less beautiful they are.



I’d guess you’re a Maximizer. Given your career trajectory and your comparison with your friends wives, it’d seem the most likely. As a fellow Maximizer… I don’t know what I’d do in your position. I’m honestly not even totally certain I can stay with a woman past a certain age. I’ve had long-term relationships where the girl was beautiful and ideal, but past a certain age the wear and tear began to show and it impacted my attraction to her. What do you do once children are involved?

You’re right that in the past you’d have taken a second wife. Your status and resources would permit it. In modern Western society it’s impossible. Even if you could get your wife to agree to it… as soon as it became obvious what you were doing you’d have the whole of society descending on your family like immune cells trying to push out a foreign body. There’s no way to pull it off unless you want to move to Kenya (or join a cult).

Sometimes husbands and wives come to an arrangement where they decide to stay married for the children, but effectively the romantic/sexual aspect of the relationship dies, and they each seek out separate partners.

There’s also things like swinging. Or you could see if your wife is open to threesomes… depends what you’re after. If it’s simply “a new, hotter, smarter baby mama for some genetic super babies” you’re probably not going to get that while married to your current wife (unless you convince her to go for donor eggs!).

I suppose it comes down to what you’re after. If you got home tomorrow and your wife said she wanted a divorce, what’d be the objective of your dating life? You’d enjoy your freedom for a bit, I imagine, but once that phase was over, then what?

That’s the thing to think about. Because that’s going to drive what you decide to do with this gal and the rest of your life moving forward.

Chase

 

[Will_V]

Its the lies that society tells its constituents to keep it in order that results in the following: a woman reaches adulthood with all the potential in the world and arrives at her mid thirties thinking she still has it all, but doesn't, and a man reaches adulthood thinking he has little, and arrives at his mid thirties realizing he had a lot and didn't capitalize on it. It's hard to imagine the sheer extent of the damage to human potential that has been and is being caused at every level of development inside the societies we live in.

I hope to live in a place where it is accepted and valued for a man to marry multiple women without having to buy into everything else that goes with it. Maybe it's a situation that can be effectively created (at least for myself) in the right country with a certain level of power and influence. I'm looking into it.

As for this situation, I don't see any easy way through. If I wanted to have fun on the side, and I wanted to take a lot of risk, I would have that fun while making sure I did a great job of taking care of the family, and hope that when (when not if) she finds out, that I can explain myself well enough, and have proved my value and commitment well enough, that she accepted it. But in all likelihood, even if she initially accepted, it would implode at some point because she would not find any way to validate the situation with the society around her.

If you want to replace her with a higher quality woman as your wife who you take everywhere with you, there's no way that's going to happen without a lot of pain and effectively starting over, and no doubt other women would not look at you the same way that they would look at a guy with no prior divorce or kids to take care of.

No easy answers I'm afraid.

 

[POB]

I’m honestly not even totally certain I can stay with a woman past a certain age. I’ve had long-term relationships where the girl was beautiful and ideal, but past a certain age the wear and tear began to show and it impacted my attraction to her.

I call this the "Di Caprio Syndrome" lol.

Some guys just need them young forever, nothing wrong with that.

 

[ulrich]

If I were in your position, the first thing I would do is VERY DISCREETLY hit on several gorgeous women and fuck them.
Just fuck them… have a small affair with a beautiful woman or two.
No love promises, no strings attached… JUST FUCK.

The reason I’m telling you this is because once you do that, the feeling might go away.

FOMO can be deceiving… sometimes you feel like you’re missing out a big part of life and you need to do big changes. The you try it just to find out that it wasn’t a big deal.

Perhaps once you are close to other women, you may realize that:
1) Up close they are not that different from the woman you already have.
2) The woman you already have has some qualities that you value that you are unlikely to find in most women.

I know this is risky advice so take it with a grain of salt and don’t do it if you’re not sure you can handle it with TOTAL discretion.
But again, FOMO is a bitch… the kind that often lead you astray.

 

[trashKENNUT]

The reason I’m telling you this is because once you do that, the feeling might go away.

FOMO can be deceiving… sometimes you feel like you’re missing out a big part of life and you need to do big changes. The you try it just to find out that it wasn’t a big deal.

In Asia, husbands here fuck Thailand/Indonesian/Myanmar/Filipino chicks.

Not just the husbands. Even the india/bangladesh/foreign expats.

Shall end this post here before i get angry with everyone

z@c+

 

[Skills]

I wonder whether this is a common phenomenon among upwardly mobile guys who got married early. TLDR: I’ve been successful in my career and reached an age where my SMV is much higher and I now feel I can do better than my wife.

I met my wife when we were both 18 in university, we started dating, and we got married at 24. We’ve had 2 kids since and are now in in our early 30’s. I’ve been very successful in my career as a lawyer and we have a very comfortable life. If nothing changes we’ll raise 2+ wonderful children and have a very nice upper-middle class life. The problem is that I now have regrets over my choice of a wife. She treats me and the kids well. But she is not very pretty and not very smart.

I was actually quite popular in highschool. I had a lot of girls that liked me and dated some but I was too much of a nice guy to be a player. Always in LTR and was totally bluepill. University was the opposite experience. It was a very competitive school and I did terrible academically because I had bad work habits from coasting through highschool on my brains. It was also a bit of a culture shock and I had almost zero social life. I didn’t get much interest from girls and I hated my time at university.

I met my wife at university. I continued to be bluepill and her circle became my social circle for the rest of my university days. Same thing continued in law school.

Things started to change once I entered the workforce. Turns out that I may suck at school but I do pretty well in the workforce. Partners were happy with my work and I became a rising star. I’m earning more than my parents ever did. I’m getting the confidence back that I had in highschool and I guess girls are noticing because I start to feel more attention from girls.

Now my friends are also marrying. It’s petty, but their wives are much prettier and smarter than my wife (and they seem fine personality-wise). What irritates me even more is that these are guys who look up to me. This and the IOUs I get tell me that I could do much better than my wife in terms of looks and smarts.

My wife at best is probably 6/10. My best friend who told me to dump her when we first started dating said she was a 4/10. She was plain when she was 18, not pretty enough to be girl-next-door cute, but not ugly. Over the years she hasn’t put on weight, but she also now doesn’t have the youth of an 18 year old (which can make almost any girl somewhat pretty). In my social circles, the gfs/wives are generally 7-9/10 and loads of them are in prestigious jobs like lawyers/doctors/consultant, etc. My wife did a degree in biology with not particularly good grades and works a nondescript clerical government job.

In pre-modern times a guy in my position would have taken a second wife right? Or at least a young, pretty mistress? Is that why we have the idea of a starter/first wife?

I don’t know if I’m going through an early mid-life crisis or something. I don’t want to do anything to hurt my kids or my wife unnecessarily. I think it’s a big lesson to you young guys out there to listen to the advice on this site and in the manosphere to fulfill your SMV potential before settling down. I wish I had learned of this site earlier.

I’m probably coming across as a complete asshole to my wife and kids. But I’m just trying to be completely transparent. Like I said I can’t be alone and this must be a pretty common phenomenon among guys who married before their SMV peak.

I have no idea what to do and would love to get some feedback and recommendations that don’t blow up my family.

This is normal is called a fear of missing out, combined with a middle life crisis. You made a mistake by marrying so young without experiencing life and fucking a lot of women. But it can be a double age sword, for example when you have more responsibilities like kids and wife it totally helps with focus and hunger cause they depend on you.

I notice you are comparing your dick to the dude peeing next to you focus on looking at your dick so you don't pee on your legs.

If you got money and your problem is she is not hot game her to get plastic surgery or looks maxing.

^ or go swinging route and or teach her to cold approach and pick up women together.... eventually I will teach how to do this once I master it

Or go sugar baby route or pro route.

Stop comparing yourself to others....

 

[Skills]

I call this the "Di Caprio Syndrome" lol.

Some guys just need them young forever, nothing wrong with that.

Peter pan syndrome happens to guys that were in long ltrs during their youth such as op

 

[trashKENNUT]

"Di Caprio Syndrome"

For some reason, i cannot see girls when their face frowns.

That youth cheeks support by collagen. I don't know why except that i need that absolute in my mind.

Ar... i think i found out why.

z@c+

Damn early age/setting precedent. Feminism and wokeism will amplify what i experienced.

Humanity deserves this God is fair. We all pay the reaper some day, in different forms.

 

[Chase]

@Skills,

Peter pan syndrome happens to guys that were in long ltrs during their youth such as op

Usually that term is used for a bunch of childlike / irresponsible behavior patterns:

The Peter Pan Syndrome

Why smart people fail.

www.psychologytoday.com

Rather different from what @Imblue's discussing.

He is definitely engaging in comparison. Though, that is a pretty normal behavior to engage in too.

Fact is his options have changed -- when he married his wife, she might've been the best choice at the time. Now he's in a better position, has access to women he didn't have access to then, and they are striking him like more desirable options.

Hard not to engage in comparison when circumstances change. When I lived in San Diego I used to say to people all the time that "People move out here happily married and end up divorced within a couple of years." Happened so many times I couldn't keep track of it... everyone who moves there ends up figuring he or she can do better with the sheer number of attractive dating options around.

Comparison is more or less unavoidable.

He is now in the "for better" part of the marriage vows scenario: "For better or for worse"... things have gotten better for him, and he must reassess those vows he took and decide if he's still hanging onto them, and all they entail.

I guess the challenge for @Imblue is that, if he wished to remain married, he'd need to figure out a way that his wife compares favorably to the other options he has... or even, say, to his friends' wives.

(I don't like the ethics of trying to push someone into plastic surgery... there's a lot of mental health problems tied to that; people who get it tend to be insecure; and telling someone she needs to get plastic surgery to be with you, if she wasn't already insecure, is definitely going to make her that... you don't want to be responsible for starting a woman down a course of unending plastic surgeries trying to look like someone she's not... much better just to divorce her and let her find someone who appreciates her for her, if it's down to "plastic surgery or I don't want you", if you ask me... although encouraging her to dress better, use makeup, do her hair nicer, all that seems reasonable, especially if OP already does that himself)

Chase

 

[Skills]

@Skills,



Usually that term is used for a bunch of childlike / irresponsible behavior patterns:

The Peter Pan Syndrome

Why smart people fail.

www.psychologytoday.com

Rather different from what @Imblue's discussing.

He is definitely engaging in comparison. Though, that is a pretty normal behavior to engage in too.

Fact is his options have changed -- when he married his wife, she might've been the best choice at the time. Now he's in a better position, has access to women he didn't have access to then, and they are striking him like more desirable options.

Hard not to engage in comparison when circumstances change. When I lived in San Diego I used to say to people all the time that "People move out here happily married and end up divorced within a couple of years." Happened so many times I couldn't keep track of it... everyone who moves there ends up figuring he or she can do better with the sheer number of attractive dating options around.

Comparison is more or less unavoidable.

He is now in the "for better" part of the marriage vows scenario: "For better or for worse"... things have gotten better for him, and he must reassess those vows he took and decide if he's still hanging onto them, and all they entail.

I guess the challenge for @Imblue is that, if he wished to remain married, he'd need to figure out a way that his wife compares favorably to the other options he has... or even, say, to his friends' wives.

(I don't like the ethics of trying to push someone into plastic surgery... there's a lot of mental health problems tied to that; people who get it tend to be insecure; and telling someone she needs to get plastic surgery to be with you, if she wasn't already insecure, is definitely going to make her that... you don't want to be responsible for starting a woman down a course of unending plastic surgeries trying to look like someone she's not... much better just to divorce her and let her find someone who appreciates her for her, if it's down to "plastic surgery or I don't want you", if you ask me... although encouraging her to dress better, use makeup, do her hair nicer, all that seems reasonable, especially if OP already does that himself)

Chase

Oh I made the Peter pan syndrome name up I didn't know there was an actual medical term for it.... about the plastic surgery and fitness etc.... there are ways to bring them up smoothly and tactfully.... I know many girls that have done boobs for example and they don't go Michael Jackson light....

I personally don't understand how guys can make it long term... I get really bored right away which kind of sucks cause it gets harder and harder to pair bond...

^ sometimes the grass ain't greener on the other side...but if the looks if the wife is the issue there are ways to looks max her on a way that doesn't create resentment, I have done it many times.

And yes I was talking to a female friend about the problem of being in major hot cities like South Florida, Vegas, California etc... is easier to cheat and have temptations and stuff...almost impossible not to...

 

[POB]

My take is once the attraction is gone, it's gone forever...and I don't see looks maxing correcting it.

If he is not sexually into her anymore, then it becomes a serious problem to the relationship, and opening it up to outside sex becomes mandatory! (if he wants to stay married, that is).

In that case love becomes second fiddle to desire, and it's just terrible to deal with it (I've been in those shoes, it sucks!). My take is it is best to open it up and try to make it work. Even if she takes some D on the side (50% chance she stays mono though).

Then you can sample what you are missing and get enough evidence if you should stay with her or go solo.

 

[POB]

I personally don't understand how guys can make it long term... I get really bored right away which kind of sucks cause it gets harder and harder to pair bond...

Yep, the 2 year mark always hits hard for me

 

[Tim Iron]

What would I do? First try to set up a routine that keeps her reasonably happy and then get a few casual girlfriends (no strings attached) by the side. That seems like the best of both worlds to me... even if her looks has reduced, there would likely be other aspects that make her a good partner.

 

[trashKENNUT]

take is once the attraction is gone, it's gone forever...and I don't see looks maxing correcting it

Right...

I have a theory on this. PRETTY DOOM AND GLOOMED. (ACTUALLY IT'S SCIENCE!)
Why marriage and relationships today failed, is basically man and women just operate as if the mental world is the real world.

The dating world today is either spiking her attraction only during isolation and get him in marriage so that money/something is already invested.

Hot leads, 1997 offer and that fucking Funnel

z@c+

 

[Vision]

I'm not sure where all you've gone to ask for advice about your marriage but I wouldn't limit it to a forum designed to help guys seduce and fuck large amounts of women.

 

[ulrich]

I'm not sure where all you've gone to ask for advice about your marriage but I wouldn't limit it to a forum designed to help guys seduce and fuck large amounts of women.

Fair point, mate.

 

[Will_V]

I'm not sure where all you've gone to ask for advice about your marriage but I wouldn't limit it to a forum designed to help guys seduce and fuck large amounts of women.

What's the alternative though? Marriage counselling?

It is a valid point you make, we're all focused on taking higher quality women to bed. And we will all be biased in that direction, for sure.

But part and parcel of this perspective is also being way more accepting of what we desire as men. Where else is there really a place that doesn't have a very strong negative bias? I imagine 99% of places you could go for advice nobody would have even opened their mouth to accept the reality of the situation, let alone a specific course of action. And that includes family and friends (in fact, especially so).

I believe it's absolutely normal for men to desire multiple women, for example, and also I think a relationship that includes the man having at least multiple sexual options, if not multiple marriage options (and the woman having none of these) is perfectly healthy when the right set of circumstances exist. But the real problem is that nowhere in the reality of men as a whole (in western society at least) do these values have any anchoring point - and perhaps more importantly, neither do they have any anchoring point in his wife's reality, what she has seen, experienced and learned to expect.

The tools society uses to keep people under control basically amount to nothing more than psychological repression, enforced through collective pressure. Even if it were highly functional at the collective level (which I don't believe is true) it's not healthy at all at the individual level. And probably more than anything, the fact that it's basically impossible for anyone to discuss the concept of not being attracted to their wife anymore, or whether this means it's natural for them to go out and want to find another or an additional one, in anything but the most subversive circles is just very, very bad.

That's why more communities like this are absolutely necessary. But you are right, this is a seduction community, focused around seducing more and better women. Yet, I have to say that I've never seen anywhere, online or otherwise, a community of men built around a general perspective on women even close to as realistic and balanced as this. It's very unfortunate that a pickup community is the only place to get a realistic perspective on women and the male experience in short and long term relationships. Even the red pill community, which one would expect to be comprised of men more focused on long term success and relationships, and less so on pickup, is swimming in quips and truisms regarding women that verge on being more dismissive and superficial than the most sociopathic pickup artist out there, which not surprisingly creates a group of men so disfunctional that their only real relationships, for better or worse, are with their own points of view or their comrades in arms.

We do need more communities like this, but even more than that we need entire societies built around the right perspectives. Because in the end, regardless of how apparently successful a man is at controlling his frame, I don't think a woman will accept anything but what she sees in the society around her, I've seen it time and again. So much so that I not only regard competition as nature's arena, but women as nature's barometer of competitive success - and to do her job she relies primarily on comparisons.

Sure, if he does not veer too far away from the status quo, and learns the right skills, he can probably manage his relationship toward an outcome that is somewhat better than average. But his development, her development, and the development of every member of society around him who is reflecting to both of them what the expectations are and should be, has been so stunted and pressured and manipulated by collective propaganda, and her perspective so reliant on this, that the chances of them navigating together through a successful relationship at all is no more than 50/50, let alone one that involves a perspective that is clearly at odds with the status quo (such as taking on multiple wives, or being able to have fun on the side).

But to end I will say that a man must fully take responsibility for the results of his own choices within the circumstances that they were made, and should first evaluate how he can make what he has already created work best for his future, rather than operating on impulses that drive him to make questionable choices and then want to change them later. And the right perspective for that may not come from guys focused on seducing women and more from guys with a lot of experience maneuvering through tough long-term life choices and creating the best outcome from sub-optimal beginnings. Certainly if you can find these guys they are worth listening to.