PUA and neuroticism

[Dragonetti]

So, I'm pretty good with women. My body count is... I'm not sure. I lost count long ago. It's certainly over 150 though.

Maybe I'm a natural, maybe I am tall, maybe I have a high verbal intelligence, maybe I'm funny. I dunno! But I'm here because I have a few Achilles' Heels that I need to work on; for example, I fall in love / get torn up over a single girl very easily. Women can make me a wreck.

Anyway, this place seems great. It's much better than other online dating/seduction spaces, which seem to be full of losers who try to shore up their lack of positive qualities with mechanical and overly analytical "game" that they think rehearsing hard enough will save them

The best wisdom boils down to:

• Have passion/goals in your life that don't involve getting women
• Stop being outcome dependent in interactions
• be positive and focus on having a good time, since this is magnetic
• Don't desexualize yourself. Let your sexuality take wing and draw her in. Don't be scared.
• Have lots of options (abundance)
• never be needy
• Move as fast as the situation allows
• Use physical touch
• be funny, use humor, be playful
• Stop giving a fuck about what women think and let your quirks take wing
• show interest in women
• Look good and have an interesting style that would appeal to your "type"

So... all of this seems natural and even obvious to me, barring my obsessive romantic tendencies.

But this brings me: is PUA stuff just neuroticism? Does it put men in a weird, artificial mindset where they are taken out of the moment and into their heads to do buffoonish math problems?

The neurotic shit.

• Obsessing over the minutiae of your gait, posture, voice, facial expression, and how to engineer it.
• Calculating how many minutes you should take to text her back.
• Bro science about "lovers vs boyfriends"
• Dress like a club-loser who walked out of a Miami Zara in 2011.
• retardation like "neuro-linguistic programming" but thankfully that seems to not be spoken about much anymore.

This stuff seems to be like snake oil for men looking for a magic "how to finally get laid!!" formula.

This board seems to be the best on the internet, but I even see the neuroticism here sometimes. Do you boys think this delegitimizes the concept of game? Or is "game" a fake-it-till-you-make-it scenario, where you ape the natural tendencies of strong men through conscious calculation until they become real?


EDIT: Mark Manson often has an antidote to the clownish excesses of "game" thinking. This article, for example, counters the "GRR I HAVE TO BE A BIG MANLY MAN ALPHA MALE WITH NO VULNERABILITY TO KEEP A WOMAN" buffoon-LARP mindset

 

[Rakehell]

I’m fairly neurotic too, I sometimes joke that learning this stuff forces you into the same mind frame that someone autistic or mentally ill is.

Someone who consciously thinks about what to do or say and how they’re coming off. I wouldn’t call it bufoonish because some people do need to. Almost like training wheels.

So I don’t entirely disagree, but at the same time i’ve always been kinda neurotic so there’s that. Maybe yours is just more pronounced because you’re inclined toward neuroticism like I am.

 

[Dragonetti]

My speech/behavior is mostly automatic and unconscious so I am not neurotic in that regard

 

[topcat]

TLDR: humble brag camouflaged in pseudo-weakness (his “neuroticism”). “why are PUA’s including some of you in this forum robotic losers? why aren’t you more like myself the high lay count natural? what’s up with that?

what was the real purpose of this post again?

 

[Conquistador]

TLDR: humble brag camouflaged in pseudo-weakness (his “neuroticism”). “why are PUA’s including some of you in this forum robotic losers? why aren’t you more like myself the high lay count natural? what’s up with that?

what was the real purpose of this post again?

The body count claim seems….less than congruent with his previous posts

 

[topcat]

The body count claim seems….less than congruent with his previous posts

does getting jacked off virtually by forum members count towards ones bodycount?

i’m not sure but even if it does he might find find his body count wanting in this place…

 

[Dragonetti]

Sensing some insecurity. We all have it. I am happy to edit away my credentialization of the OP, but yeah I still struggle with some interactions despite my high body count, and I'm not at all ashamed about it. I suggest learning to be secure with your shortcomings too.

Take a chill pill. I'm not out to get you, I came to have a good faith conversation about where game succeeds and where it fails/overcorrects

 

[topcat]

Sensing some insecurity. We all have it. I am happy to edit away my credentialization of the OP, but yeah I still struggle with some interactions despite my high body count, and I'm not at all ashamed about it. I suggest learning to be secure with your shortcomings too.

Take a chill pill. I'm not out to get you, I came to have a good faith conversation about where game succeeds and where it fails/overcorrects

no i just smell a troll. could have overstepped the mark, but we’ll see

 

[Dragonetti]

I'm afraid you did, unless you equate skepticism of some aspects of seduction/game with trolling.

 

[HoofHearted]

no i just smell a troll. could have overstepped the mark, but we’ll see

I actually thought this too, btw.

Why on earth would anyone waste time on this? What enjoyment is to be extracted?

I might be getting too old for the internet.

 

[ulrich]

People learn at different speeds.

A lot of PUA techniques and mentalities are meant as shortcuts for fresher members so they can understand how someone more advanced would think/act.
Some of them can be oversimplifications and some can be outright misconceptions… but again, they are learning tools.

I’m surprised that after 150 lays, you haven’t realized that @Dragonetti

You sure have refined your outlook and understanding of game and women along your life, haven’t you?

 

[Dragonetti]

I learned about PUA after I acted badly/needy after a particularly bad breakup, when I was already pretty experienced but basically ignorant about game. This is also when I discovered Mark Manson, and so this journey of discovery introduced me to many seemingly contradictory perspectives that I've been mulling ever since

 

[ulrich]

But this brings me: is PUA stuff just neuroticism? Does it put men in a weird, artificial mindset where they are taken out of the moment and into their heads to do buffoonish math problems?

The neurotic shit.

• Obsessing over the minutiae of your gait, posture, voice, facial expression, and how to engineer it.
• Calculating how many minutes you should take to text her back.
• Bro science about "lovers vs boyfriends"
• Dress like a club-loser who walked out of a Miami Zara in 2011.
• retardation like "neuro-linguistic programming" but thankfully that seems to not be spoken about much anymore.

This stuff seems to be like snake oil for men looking for a magic "how to finally get laid!!" formula.

I offer you an alternative explanation for these unproductive/obsessive focus.

The guys who do that have incomplete or incorrect understanding of seduction dynamics.

It’s not that they are neurotic or perfectionists.
It is that they can’t naturally comprehend why women act the way they do and focus strongly on the things they can perceive and control.

It’s like an amateur salesman that thinks he can sell ice to the eskimos by using the correct closing sequence while completely ignoring offer/demand dynamics, competition and their customer actual needs.

Amateurish things done by amateurs.

But again, we all start somewhere.

 

[Chase]

Happy to hear you’re liking the place so far, man.

With seduction, you don’t need any of the minutiae if you’re already killing it.

If you’re clueless and don’t know what to do, it’s VERY helpful:

• Guys whose vibes / mannerisms / etc. are all wrong for seduction are not helped by just telling them, “Dude, just be and act cool.” They will do their best to do that… they will even THINK they are being/acting cool… only to still have really terrible vibes and mannerisms. You need to actually break it down for them: do this facial expression, walk that way, etc. Even guys who are kinda okay but not super chill / cool benefit from breakdowns. Then once they get solid enough they don’t need to worry about it. You can just tell the guy, “You’re looking a little down in the dumps today. Make your body language more confident!” and he can just turn it on like a light switch.
  
  
• Same thing with figuring out when to text back… to some guy who’s clueless with girls, staring at a phone, it’s like looking at the ocean trying to figure out how to cross it when you’ve never sailed a ship before.
  
  
• Lovers vs. boyfriends… same deal. If you kill it at getting laid, and you kill it at retaining women long-term, no sweat. Don’t even need to think about it. If you have shortcomings… it’s helpful to think about. There are entire books in evolutionary science focused on the “cads vs. dads” phenomenon, and hundreds of research papers on women changing their mate choice preferences based on whether they’re going for short-term (sex) vs. long-term (commitment). The tl;dr: women look for cads/players/lovers when they are randy for quick sex, and dads/providers/boyfriends when they are searching for commitment. Guys who are tuned into this don’t even have to think about it. A lot of guys grow up having no idea women ever switch their mating strategies or that women might even be into one or the other type of guy pursuing one or the other mating strategy (short-term vs. long-term).
  
  
• The club douche image is hilariously (depressingly?) effective with basic bitch club girl types… who (unfortunately?) are the majority of women you will meet in clubs. Wider net, more fish caught, generally speaking.
  
  
• And NLP is a cool, effective niche skill — useful, but probably not something to base a seduction around unless you’re Ross Jeffries, and a little too out-there to teach to regular guys looking for basic seduction tips.

Seduction boards are a mesh-mash of guys at different levels with different skills.

If you see a guy on here working on mannerisms and attire and trying out NLP, you might think, “Wow, what does that guy even need to focus on that stuff? He is splitting too many hairs! Just go up and talk to her and be cool!”

That same guy might see you tearing your hair out over some girl, and think, “Man, why does that guy get all wound up over chicks over and over again? She’s just some girl. Just go out and meet another one!”

You can put together more niche crews of guys who are close to your level on most things and also working on mostly the same issues as you are — these can be some of the best crews and will be the guys you get closest to on seduction boards.

But generally you need a large board with a range of guys at different levels to even attract enough guys to find guys like that. The boards that are too niche eventually die out as guys drift away and no one new replaces them.

Chase

 

[Dragonetti]

Ok. So it seems to me that this stuff is to patch up the shortcomings of a variety of men who have a variety of different issues to handle. That actually makes sense.

I guess, if someone was perfect, he wouldn't need advice or "strategies" at all. That makes sense.

I appreciate it, @Chase and @ulrich

 

[Bismarck]

While there is a grain of truth in the OP, the author’s claims about 150+ and suggestions that he is a natural (after starting a thread just recently asking what a natural is, or what natural game is) are doubtful.

Simply because the illusion that naturals don’t discuss among themselves on how to lay specific girls is akin to the pedestalization of women that doesn’t ascribe a 10 rating to any because such women “don’t exist.”

The author probably isn’t a natural (most likely since if he was he wouldn’t be here) and, what’s more, has never hung out with successful naturals, or at least for any considerable length of time.

 

[Skills]

While there is a grain of truth in the OP, the author’s claims about 150+ and suggestions that he is a natural (after starting a thread just recently asking what a natural is, or what natural game is) are doubtful.

Simply because the illusion that naturals don’t discuss among themselves on how to lay specific girls is akin to the pedestalization of women that doesn’t ascribe a 10 rating to any because such women “don’t exist.”

The author probably isn’t a natural (most likely since if he was he wouldn’t be here) and, what’s more, has never hung out with successful naturals, or at least for any considerable length of time.

no necessarily true plenty of naturals join or have joined the community, cause they are "different" and want to be with people from similar tribe...

Some naturals are not that calibrated with posting cause they have the real life skills but not forum posting experience so there is incongruence....

Happened to me when i joined...

 

[Skills]

I learned about PUA after I acted badly/needy after a particularly bad breakup, when I was already pretty experienced but basically ignorant about game. This is also when I discovered Mark Manson, and so this journey of discovery introduced me to many seemingly contradictory perspectives that I've been mulling ever since

yea this will happen and eventually you will go through stages and evolution.... Mark manson is good in what we call inner game, polarity, best book on neediness.... The vulnerability he talks about can be misapplied by newer guys or uncalibrated guys..... His technical game is extremely basic and sub par, same with the texting (horrible)..... Here you will get more of a practical, technical more modern field tested advice.... You will get a lot of shit cause as a natural you are not calibrated to community, eventually you will get there, read this....

 

[Chase]

You will get a lot of shit cause as a natural you are not calibrated to community, eventually you will get there, read this....

That's an excellent post, @Skills...

-C

 

[HoofHearted]

That's an excellent post, @Skills...

-C

Why? What's so great about it?

And I don't think there's actually a 'community', anymore there are 8th grade boys hanging around behind the middle school gym (don't get me wrong, I'm floating around back here too)...

And I don't really think there are elders, or hierarchies, or 'advanced' guys, either... all part of a collective roleplay imo.

I would be curious to understand the merits of the article better.