Recovering after a big failure

[Darius]

Hello everyone,

Stupid thread incoming but one that I cannot shake off.

I fucked up with my ex a ton, and acted in ways that were really stupid.

My emotions got the best of me, I got weak and before I broke it off with her I essentially ended up dropping all sense of reason, chasing her and begging her for a relationship. I basically let myself crumble and gave in fully to feelings, and of course got rejected and felt horrible afterwards.

Even before that, I let her turn me into a beta dude towards the end of the relationship.

I moved on from her now, but I am really disappointed of how I acted, and of myself. I really thought I was better than this. My whole inner frame had revolved around me being a strong man that gets what he wants out of life.

I am now putting my life back in order. It's going great. I'm losing weight, working out, getting all my fundamentals in check, planning to start a business, etc. A lot of it thanks to you guys and your advice.

And I started dating again, met quite a few girls and had 2 dates this last week. However, here's my current problem:

With the women that I meet, I honestly cannot think of myself as a strong man, given what I previously did with my ex. I just... I can't. It really feels like I'm deluding myself. The moment I try to do it, memories of my weak behaviour come rushing to me.

Especially thinking of myself as the prize, which is essential to the way I do my seductions.

This lack of strength and inner game on my side seeps into my conversations and my interactions with women. They are a lot weaker and 'friendlier' than normal. I essentially feel like I'm a castrated version of myself, with zero edge and sexiness. Leading especially became very hard.

Has anyone been through anything similar? How do you recover from an episode of acting like a loser, and re-frame yourself as a strong man?

Darius

 

[Will_V]

Just accept that you were desperate and needed her badly. The fact that you chastise yourself so much for this is part of the problem, it shows that you are afraid of these feelings, which represent real parts of yourself.

Weakness and a certain kind of 'friendliness' - the type when you feel unable to express something more substantial - are part and parcel of the same thing: fear of other people's opinions. Fear that they will see something you don't want them to. Fear that they will produce the same thing in you. Fear that another person can have a grip on your soul that you don't have.

I have experienced chasing girls desperately, I've also, in times when I felt at my lowest, behaved in very embarrassing ways with people who meant a lot to me, in ways I didn't think I'd be able to live down.

The first thing to realize is that the most egoistic and self-affirming thing you can do is to declare that what you did was fine, because you did it and that's it. You know it didn't happen for absolutely no reason, it happened because of a part of you that probably is responsible for a lot of good things in your life as well, that was placed in a position it shouldn't have been in.

All these mechanisms within yourself that can malfunction - whether it is your capability for aggression and assertiveness, impulsiveness and addiction, the need for love and acceptance, guilt and conscience etc - these are like the members of a group that you are responsible for managing. When they are placed in exactly the right position, they become an incredible asset, an essential component in a system, like harnessed horses. But when they are placed in the wrong position, they can cause all kinds of inner and outer chaos, disfunctional behaviors, and even self-destructiveness. The task of a man is to manage his horses so that he can use them to pull the cart of his life (and the lives of others) along. And the worst thing he can do is fight them, or try to take his revenge on them, or try to dispense with any or all of them, it will only end in worse failure.

It seems to me like you put your 'horse' of the need for love and acceptance at the head of the pack, where it doesn't belong - where the 'horse' of principle and ethics belongs. If the misplaced horse had been behind, in support of the leader rather than running rampant, it would never have caused problems, and would have decorated your principled life with all sorts of wonderful emotions and abilities of self expression.

Now you have to reassert the leader. If I were you, I'd hit the gym, develop a strong routine, do something competitive, entertain your dominant tendencies and characteristics. It will take some time. But don't fight the emotions, they are not the enemy, they simply must be overtaken by what belongs out in front.

 

[DarkKnight]

You need to be build momentum.. a positive feedback loop which rebuilds the self image that you seek.

 

[Skills]

Hello everyone,

Stupid thread incoming but one that I cannot shake off.

I fucked up with my ex a ton, and acted in ways that were really stupid.

My emotions got the best of me, I got weak and before I broke it off with her I essentially ended up dropping all sense of reason, chasing her and begging her for a relationship. I basically let myself crumble and gave in fully to feelings, and of course got rejected and felt horrible afterwards.

Even before that, I let her turn me into a beta dude towards the end of the relationship.

I moved on from her now, but I am really disappointed of how I acted, and of myself. I really thought I was better than this. My whole inner frame had revolved around me being a strong man that gets what he wants out of life.

I am now putting my life back in order. It's going great. I'm losing weight, working out, getting all my fundamentals in check, planning to start a business, etc. A lot of it thanks to you guys and your advice.

And I started dating again, met quite a few girls and had 2 dates this last week. However, here's my current problem:

With the women that I meet, I honestly cannot think of myself as a strong man, given what I previously did with my ex. I just... I can't. It really feels like I'm deluding myself. The moment I try to do it, memories of my weak behaviour come rushing to me.

Especially thinking of myself as the prize, which is essential to the way I do my seductions.

This lack of strength and inner game on my side seeps into my conversations and my interactions with women. They are a lot weaker and 'friendlier' than normal. I essentially feel like I'm a castrated version of myself, with zero edge and sexiness. Leading especially became very hard.

Has anyone been through anything similar? How do you recover from an episode of acting like a loser, and re-frame yourself as a strong man?

Darius

^ i don't know if i told you this before but this happens to EVERYONE, trust me i have been in the community for a while i seen this time and time again, for dudes you would never expect that to happened including myself...

Break Ups - Break up dynamics for secret society members (seducers, women, gays)

Most break up posts, blogs, videos are mainly accurate but from a normal person view, not from a secret society (specially seducer/player) perspective. What is the difference you may ask? A secret society member is able to access sexual partners fairly quick and usually do not get onitis...

www.skilledseducer.com

As time goes by and you build on small successes you will be back, and this i think is part of the journey, it will make you better... You will also see women behaving like this towards you, and you have this experience you went through to understand what they are going through...

 

[Will_V]

...and you have this experience you went through to understand what they are going through...

100%

 

[Darius]

Just accept that you were desperate and needed her badly. The fact that you chastise yourself so much for this is part of the problem, it shows that you are afraid of these feelings, which represent real parts of yourself.

Weakness and a certain kind of 'friendliness' - the type when you feel unable to express something more substantial - are part and parcel of the same thing: fear of other people's opinions. Fear that they will see something you don't want them to. Fear that they will produce the same thing in you. Fear that another person can have a grip on your soul that you don't have.

I have experienced chasing girls desperately, I've also, in times when I felt at my lowest, behaved in very embarrassing ways with people who meant a lot to me, in ways I didn't think I'd be able to live down.

The first thing to realize is that the most egoistic and self-affirming thing you can do is to declare that what you did was fine, because you did it and that's it. You know it didn't happen for absolutely no reason, it happened because of a part of you that probably is responsible for a lot of good things in your life as well, that was placed in a position it shouldn't have been in.

All these mechanisms within yourself that can malfunction - whether it is your capability for aggression and assertiveness, impulsiveness and addiction, the need for love and acceptance, guilt and conscience etc - these are like the members of a group that you are responsible for managing. When they are placed in exactly the right position, they become an incredible asset, an essential component in a system, like harnessed horses. But when they are placed in the wrong position, they can cause all kinds of inner and outer chaos, disfunctional behaviors, and even self-destructiveness. The task of a man is to manage his horses so that he can use them to pull the cart of his life (and the lives of others) along. And the worst thing he can do is fight them, or try to take his revenge on them, or try to dispense with any or all of them, it will only end in worse failure.

It seems to me like you put your 'horse' of the need for love and acceptance at the head of the pack, where it doesn't belong - where the 'horse' of principle and ethics belongs. If the misplaced horse had been behind, in support of the leader rather than running rampant, it would never have caused problems, and would have decorated your principled life with all sorts of wonderful emotions and abilities of self expression.

Now you have to reassert the leader. If I were you, I'd hit the gym, develop a strong routine, do something competitive, entertain your dominant tendencies and characteristics. It will take some time. But don't fight the emotions, they are not the enemy, they simply must be overtaken by what belongs out in front.

This analogy is very powerful, and it made me realise something. For me, the chasing part was more egotistical than anything. I do not think it was the 'need for love and acceptance' horse, rather, it was the 'I can get everything I want out of life so I will go after it' horse.

That horse got me to forge myself and my surroundings into shape, starting from very little. Without it, I have no idea where I'd be right now. It is the best horse in my possession, my temper and my fire. Sadly it got crushed when the very thing that I wanted (i.e. the girl) I could NOT get, after having had her. It definitely needs some nurturing to feel right again. Gym and competitive sports should do it good.

You are incredibly right, however. That horse should back down to second or third place, because if uncontrolled it causes one to act in irrational, greedy or self destructive ways -- extreme examples such as: I want money so I'ma go rob a bank. Or I can't get what I want so I'll drink/smoke my sorrows away to appease that horse in some way and give him pleasure. Or, I want a girl and I'm not strategic about getting her, I just blindly chase her.

It is much better to have the principle, reason and logic horse leading, as you said. It's the horse that organises all other horses and keeps the wild one in check.

I'm glad I see this now. Thank you for your insight.

You need to be build momentum.. a positive feedback loop which rebuilds the self image that you seek.

I really tried that and it went great but after 2 failed dates it felt like I was going backwards ahah.

I think maybe taking a break from girls where I focus on myself would be good. Getting rejected is definitely a momentum killer.

^ i don't know if i told you this before but this happens to EVERYONE, trust me i have been in the community for a while i seen this time and time again, for dudes you would never expect that to happened including myself...

Break Ups - Break up dynamics for secret society members (seducers, women, gays)

Most break up posts, blogs, videos are mainly accurate but from a normal person view, not from a secret society (specially seducer/player) perspective. What is the difference you may ask? A secret society member is able to access sexual partners fairly quick and usually do not get onitis...

www.skilledseducer.com

As time goes by and you build on small successes you will be back, and this i think is part of the journey, it will make you better... You will also see women behaving like this towards you, and you have this experience you went through to understand what they are going through...

Thanks for this. It's reassuring to see that this is something that can happen to anyone. Also thanks to @Will_V for sharing bad experiences, it takes courage to admit and talk about this shit.

It means I'm not just some weak dude that's bound to repeat this with every girl it doesn't work out with. I can move on with this experience, get better at relationship management, and be stronger next time.

 

[Tr1cky]

Love is a powerful emotion that makes men act out of character and illogical. In a way you’ve worked to get it out of your system and can move on. IMO everyone needs to go through that once, it’s healthy and normal. It only becomes a problem if you keep repeating it and wallow in the self pity.

I do see one problem you have, when you say “it messes with your sense of being the prize”

Credit to @Gunwitch on this one but there is no prize, it’s all an illusion of sorts. She’s not a prize and neither you. Having this notion of a “prize mentality” fucks up your game, as it currently is.

the prize mentality makes you think that YOU matter in the seduction when in reality YOU couldn’t be any less relevant. Women only want you for how you make them feel. It’s the same with men.

Men like to think it’s so different for them, they don’t care how a women acts they like her for her. Yeah…okay… take your little princess you’re in love with because of “who she is” and put her in a 400lb body with acne scars and let’s see how long you stick around.

make her feel a wide array of emotions and she will fall in “love”. Just like anything else we pay for. You pay to see a movie for emotions, you watch sports for emotions, you eat ice cream for emotions, you use your phone for emotions, you bang women for emotions. Everything is about how something makes you feel.

FOCUS ON MAKING HER FEEL, FUCK “YOU”

 

[Will_V]

This analogy is very powerful, and it made me realise something. For me, the chasing part was more egotistical than anything. I do not think it was the 'need for love and acceptance' horse, rather, it was the 'I can get everything I want out of life so I will go after it' horse.

That horse got me to forge myself and my surroundings into shape, starting from very little. Without it, I have no idea where I'd be right now. It is the best horse in my possession, my temper and my fire. Sadly it got crushed when the very thing that I wanted (i.e. the girl) I could NOT get, after having had her. It definitely needs some nurturing to feel right again. Gym and competitive sports should do it good.

You are incredibly right, however. That horse should back down to second or third place, because if uncontrolled it causes one to act in irrational, greedy or self destructive ways -- extreme examples such as: I want money so I'ma go rob a bank. Or I can't get what I want so I'll drink/smoke my sorrows away to appease that horse in some way and give him pleasure. Or, I want a girl and I'm not strategic about getting her, I just blindly chase her.

It is much better to have the principle, reason and logic horse leading, as you said. It's the horse that organises all other horses and keeps the wild one in check.

I'm glad I see this now. Thank you for your insight.



I really tried that and it went great but after 2 failed dates it felt like I was going backwards ahah.

I think maybe taking a break from girls where I focus on myself would be good. Getting rejected is definitely a momentum killer.



Thanks for this. It's reassuring to see that this is something that can happen to anyone. Also thanks to @Will_V for sharing bad experiences, it takes courage to admit and talk about this shit.

It means I'm not just some weak dude that's bound to repeat this with every girl it doesn't work out with. I can move on with this experience, get better at relationship management, and be stronger next time.

Sounds like you have the right outlook, you made her your mission, bad idea, have a look at this:

She Must Never Become Your Mission

I happened upon an article entitled “An Open Letter To My Future Wife: How I Plan To Make You Happy Every Day Of Your Life” earlier today, written without a doubt very sincerely to the author’s imagined future wife – here’s a short excerpt: “I promise to do my best to make you beam daily, so...

www.girlschase.com

 

[Gunwitch]

To add to what Tr1cky said also. Framing it different is huge.

Also you mighta gotten use to regular sex, and so now are beating off regular? If so stop it, sex with all the chemicals it provides is different than just beating off, for energy levels, dominance, even ability to vibe. Heard of "poon dust"? Where you're on a streak fucking new women, or just got laid, and suddenly a new chicks out of the ordinary attracted? Well that goes both ways, if you're drained from masturbation all the time, you don't have that ooomph, behind ya.

Also as you start in field again, back to basics, on the opener, on the first eye contact lock, give eye contact til the girl looks away first. This helps dominance initially a ton, gets her a little submissive, and you can feel it/see it in vibe, and start acting more dominant accordingly. You've been hanging around this chick and not paying attention, she mighta been dominating the eye contact toward the end when you were losing hand.

Where the body goes the mind follows (well eyes are part of the brain but whatever), you mighta slumped into a certain tonality, posture, and eye contact norms with the ex, you're carrying out in field now. Need to break all those, cause again it ain't about YOU, if your games on point it's all about where she goes mentally. However if you're in a funk cause you're making all the same moves, even physically, that you did with your ex, the state you're gonna put women in is "bummer" not infatuation and arousal as is ideal.



Gun

 

[Darius]

Love is a powerful emotion that makes men act out of character and illogical. In a way you’ve worked to get it out of your system and can move on. IMO everyone needs to go through that once, it’s healthy and normal. It only becomes a problem if you keep repeating it and wallow in the self pity.

I do see one problem you have, when you say “it messes with your sense of being the prize”

Credit to @Gunwitch on this one but there is no prize, it’s all an illusion of sorts. She’s not a prize and neither you. Having this notion of a “prize mentality” fucks up your game, as it currently is.

the prize mentality makes you think that YOU matter in the seduction when in reality YOU couldn’t be any less relevant. Women only want you for how you make them feel. It’s the same with men.

Men like to think it’s so different for them, they don’t care how a women acts they like her for her. Yeah…okay… take your little princess you’re in love with because of “who she is” and put her in a 400lb body with acne scars and let’s see how long you stick around.

make her feel a wide array of emotions and she will fall in “love”. Just like anything else we pay for. You pay to see a movie for emotions, you watch sports for emotions, you eat ice cream for emotions, you use your phone for emotions, you bang women for emotions. Everything is about how something makes you feel.

FOCUS ON MAKING HER FEEL, FUCK “YOU”

While I agree with this and I'm a big fan of making her 'feel' good rather than focusing on myself, it's not that I need to keep telling myself 'I am the prize' to be able to seduce. But the opposite is true for me now, rather. In the back of my head I'm always feelin like I'm NOT good enough and I don't know why she should fuck me.

I've met a number of guys that had processes down to a point where they could execute them no matter what their internal state was. I got pretty close to it myself. Once you have a solid inner frame established of believing in yourself it really is easy and you forget about it.

But at at least for me, I need that to be there. Without it, I'm not 'free'. I'm always second guessing myself and I'm afraid if I might be doing the wrong things.

Sounds like you have the right outlook, you made her your mission, bad idea, have a look at this:

She Must Never Become Your Mission

I happened upon an article entitled “An Open Letter To My Future Wife: How I Plan To Make You Happy Every Day Of Your Life” earlier today, written without a doubt very sincerely to the author’s imagined future wife – here’s a short excerpt: “I promise to do my best to make you beam daily, so...

www.girlschase.com

Totally forgot about that article. I'll make a note of it whenever I find myself going for a girl on full blast.

And in any case, even if I did set my mission aside for a temporary period to get a girl, I should have done it in a reasoned and strategic manner, not the crap that I did.

To add to what Tr1cky said also. Framing it different is huge.

Also you mighta gotten use to regular sex, and so now are beating off regular? If so stop it, sex with all the chemicals it provides is different than just beating off, for energy levels, dominance, even ability to vibe. Heard of "poon dust"? Where you're on a streak fucking new women, or just got laid, and suddenly a new chicks out of the ordinary attracted? Well that goes both ways, if you're drained from masturbation all the time, you don't have that ooomph, behind ya.

Also as you start in field again, back to basics, on the opener, on the first eye contact lock, give eye contact til the girl looks away first. This helps dominance initially a ton, gets her a little submissive, and you can feel it/see it in vibe, and start acting more dominant accordingly. You've been hanging around this chick and not paying attention, she mighta been dominating the eye contact toward the end when you were losing hand.

Where the body goes the mind follows (well eyes are part of the brain but whatever), you mighta slumped into a certain tonality, posture, and eye contact norms with the ex, you're carrying out in field now. Need to break all those, cause again it ain't about YOU, if your games on point it's all about where she goes mentally. However if you're in a funk cause you're making all the same moves, even physically, that you did with your ex, the state you're gonna put women in is "bummer" not infatuation and arousal as is ideal.



Gun

Thank you for the reply!

I'll try not beating off for a while, it definitely felt weird af going back to jerking it after having just sex for a long time -- in fact as I was seeing my gf I also had another FWB on the side which broke it off with me literally that same week... definitely felt the 'drain' by just masturbating since then.

The problem is I have a massive sex drive, I used to fuck at least every other day and like 6-7 times when it did happen. And both girls were super submissive, I could booty call them whenever I wanted. Since then it's been jerk city, lol.

Without beating it off I think I'd go crazy. I don't really know how to contain that energy.

Thanks for the 'back to basics' tip will definitely focus on those and take it back from the beginning. Eye contact, voice tone, touch, posture. Gotta get those sharp again!

 

[Gunwitch]

Thank you for the reply!

Yeah hell been there 10 times myself, and other side of it even more over the years. Know where you're comin from.

Without beating it off I think I'd go crazy. I don't really know how to contain that energy.

"Crazy" to modern society yep. Hell I learned this shit in prison, WAY before "nofap". I didn't invent not beating off (haha), but it's a way to be tougher (not freak out that you're locked up in that case), have more aggression, and sex drive. Hell 2 weeks will put 25 lbs on your bench press if ya never tried it before. Sparring wise, beat off night before? Ya are way more gunshy, get laid or don't beat off, are less gunshy. Goes same into pickup, before I knew much about it, realized less I was cumming without a woman, more attractive I was once engaged. Sexuality and persistence flow with it.


Gun

 

[DarkKnight]

Gun is entirely right... if you have fapped sparring becomes much harder...

But you also lose mental fortitude
The drive to do new things
Verbal acuity
Eyesight (I am serious)
And who knows what else basically your body goes into battery saving mode

 

[Will_V]

I was always a bit confused as to why fapping made things worse but sex is good (theoretically they are the same thing right, just ejaculation?)

I've come to believe that while ejaculation can make you lazy and take a bit off your edge, the actual negative effect is the consequences of taking a big dopamine shot while your reality is telling you that rationally things are not all that great (or even very bad).

If you take this dopamine shot after a win (bedding a girl) then it fits your reality and is fine, but when it is at odds with what your body is otherwise desperately trying to tell you to do (i.e. get after things, put your life in order, etc) then it causes an inner chaos and breakdown of order.

 

[Gunwitch]

I was always a bit confused as to why fapping made things worse but sex is good (theoretically they are the same thing right, just ejaculation?)

You release lots of extra chemicals from arousal with a partner. The interaction with her scents, textures of skin on skin, body heat etc cause a way different physical and mental reaction.

Why "no sex before a fight" is foolish, it actually boosts testosterone, appetite, arousal, even reflexes and strength. It's masturbation that's an imposter or a dopamine release, especially with porn. It basically says "good job, you did it" and gives you none of the other boosts.


Gun

 

[Will_V]

You release lots of extra chemicals from arousal with a partner. The interaction with her scents, textures of skin on skin, body heat etc cause a way different physical and mental reaction.

Why "no sex before a fight" is foolish, it actually boosts testosterone, appetite, arousal, even reflexes and strength. It's masturbation that's an imposter or a dopamine release, especially with porn. It basically says "good job, you did it" and gives you none of the other boosts.


Gun

Yeah it definitely didn't figure for me when I saw these guys on youtube going on about semen retention and all its physical benefits, it's likely just the fact that they aren't stressed out looking at the napkin and feeling like a loser.

There have been times when sex did make me feel very lazy and lethargic, but I'm certain it was a similar thing where I wasn't in a great place and sex was a sort of escapism.

These days I feel like I'm on a pretty even keel sex or no sex, and I think it comes down to how much I've improved my mental self control, and the fact that I know what I want to get from it.

 

[Darius]

Big update on this one.

I got my fire back pretty much thanks to you guys, some more reading I've been doing on the site, and Hector's new course.

I did 3 sets of approaches yesterday and all went a bit odd, but I got one number. It honestly felt really good and freeing to talk to new women and have one of them actually be excited about me, lol. I kinda forgot how that felt.

Then last night I went to a friend's birthday party at a bar and I was pretty much on fire.

I opened 2 sets, one with a wing and another one I managed to open and 'pull' the hottest girl in the place (a 20 year old dime with a great ass) for half an hour. Took her away from the party and on to the beach and we kissed and touched a lot (pretty much in sight of everyone). Got her number, hopefully I'll be able to post a LR soon.

Here's the weird thing.

My ex was there. She is 'dating' this dude that's rich but pretty boring -- I got a chance to meet him before she arrived and we became friends. I asked him and he said he was single, and he ignored her almost all night. But he told me he'll spend the night at her place.

After I talked with the dime and her friends came to pick her up, I noticed my ex got really touchy. She never said a word to me all night, but she randomly bumped into me a few times. She got right in front of me to 'take pictures' a couple of times. One time she did it, she backed up and bumped her shoulder into me, and stayed there for a couple of seconds before I moved.

Weirdest thing was, I had used my belt to play limbo at the bar, and a couple of guys yell at me and ask me if that's my belt. She was close. Without saying a thing, she pulls up my shirt to check if I have a belt on and then puts it back down. Then goes about her business like she didn't do anything.

I kept ignoring her all night and spoke with the other girls at the party.

What do you guys think? It looked like some sort of interest from my perspective, probably sparked by the big fat preselection I got with the 2 sets. I don't want to be chasing her again (hell, learned my lesson as above), and I'm on fire so I don't much care, I want to meet new women. But if I can, I want to react strategically to her so I can fuck her again.

What should be my next move here? Do I keep ignoring her or start being a little friendly toward her? Or do I just flirt and chase frame her if she does shit like that again?

 

[Will_V]

Big update on this one.

I got my fire back pretty much thanks to you guys, some more reading I've been doing on the site, and Hector's new course.

I did 3 sets of approaches yesterday and all went a bit odd, but I got one number. It honestly felt really good and freeing to talk to new women and have one of them actually be excited about me, lol. I kinda forgot how that felt.

Then last night I went to a friend's birthday party at a bar and I was pretty much on fire.

I opened 2 sets, one with a wing and another one I managed to open and 'pull' the hottest girl in the place (a 20 year old dime with a great ass) for half an hour. Took her away from the party and on to the beach and we kissed and touched a lot (pretty much in sight of everyone). Got her number, hopefully I'll be able to post a LR soon.

Here's the weird thing.

My ex was there. She is 'dating' this dude that's rich but pretty boring -- I got a chance to meet him before she arrived and we became friends. I asked him and he said he was single, and he ignored her almost all night. But he told me he'll spend the night at her place.

After I talked with the dime and her friends came to pick her up, I noticed my ex got really touchy. She never said a word to me all night, but she randomly bumped into me a few times. She got right in front of me to 'take pictures' a couple of times. One time she did it, she backed up and bumped her shoulder into me, and stayed there for a couple of seconds before I moved.

Weirdest thing was, I had used my belt to play limbo at the bar, and a couple of guys yell at me and ask me if that's my belt. She was close. Without saying a thing, she pulls up my shirt to check if I have a belt on and then puts it back down. Then goes about her business like she didn't do anything.

I kept ignoring her all night and spoke with the other girls at the party.

What do you guys think? It looked like some sort of interest from my perspective, probably sparked by the big fat preselection I got with the 2 sets. I don't want to be chasing her again (hell, learned my lesson as above), and I'm on fire so I don't much care, I want to meet new women. But if I can, I want to react strategically to her so I can fuck her again.

What should be my next move here? Do I keep ignoring her or start being a little friendly toward her? Or do I just flirt and chase frame her if she does shit like that again?

Sounds like you're on the right track and winning your confidence back.

I wouldn't even entertain the idea of banging the ex until you've been laid a few times with other girls though. It can take a couple of years to really put history behind you.

I also don't believe there's such a thing as banging an ex casually, I've tried it and it went badly, she wanted commitment and I wanted sex, she eventually became a bit lethargic and lost her fire in bed. It's one of the worst ways to end a relationship imo. I have a good 'friendship' with her now because she's a good girl but I learned my lesson. The relationship meter goes forward but never back.

 

[Darius]

Sounds like you're on the right track and winning your confidence back.

I wouldn't even entertain the idea of banging the ex until you've been laid a few times with other girls though. It can take a couple of years to really put history behind you.

I also don't believe there's such a thing as banging an ex casually, I've tried it and it went badly, she wanted commitment and I wanted sex, she eventually became a bit lethargic and lost her fire in bed. It's one of the worst ways to end a relationship imo. I have a good 'friendship' with her now because she's a good girl but I learned my lesson. The relationship meter goes forward but never back.

thanks for the input I totally agree with it and I won't move a finger to pursue her at all, but at the same time, she's there and I'm there, I feel a bit bad not reacting at all to her signs of interest. I finally understood how not to give in to my thirsty nature and chase a girl, but at the same time I don't want to go into the other extreme and refuse pussy, so if she is (possibly) open to having my cock in her, I don't see the harm.

Sure she'll want commitment afterwards probably, but then I can break it off on my terms, not on hers. Hell, it would do my emotional self (and my ego, not gonna lie) good.

My question is more technical I guess. How to react to this kind of weird interest she's throwing at me (and not just her, for other girls in the future as well). So I don't make any attempts to pursue her yet at the same time let her know if she's willing to chase me enough I'll reward her. Does that kind of make sense?

 

[Will_V]

thanks for the input I totally agree with it and I won't move a finger to pursue her at all, but at the same time, she's there and I'm there, I feel a bit bad not reacting at all to her signs of interest. I finally understood how not to give in to my thirsty nature and chase a girl, but at the same time I don't want to go into the other extreme and refuse pussy, so if she is (possibly) open to having my cock in her, I don't see the harm.

Sure she'll want commitment afterwards probably, but then I can break it off on my terms, not on hers. Hell, it would do my emotional self (and my ego, not gonna lie) good.

My question is more technical I guess. How to react to this kind of weird interest she's throwing at me (and not just her, for other girls in the future as well). So I don't make any attempts to pursue her yet at the same time let her know if she's willing to chase me enough I'll reward her. Does that kind of make sense?

You're looking at it as if what she's offering is for free. It's not. It comes with all the strings of your history together attached.

Women are the ultimate bottom players. They offer things on the basis that you feel in control, and then they know exactly how to pull back and make you charge after them later on. They will do this until either the man tires and gives her what she wants, or does something so self defeating that he takes himself out of the race.

The very fact that you feel bad not giving back her interest shows that she's already grabbing a bit of frame, because she knows you too well. You don't owe her anything, but it feels like, for old times sake ... and then you're back where you started. She didn't even offer a smile or a kiss or any tangible benefit and yet you feel like you're letting her down.

What if she gets touchy feely, you take her home, and then you get impossible LMR? What if you get back in a relationship, and then she decides it's over again? How will your ego feel about that?

With women, the only way to win is to really, honestly, be able to walk away at any time. That's why they are such beautiful, magnificent tests of men. A man must swallow his ego and smile in the face of defeat to a weak and fragile creature, turn on his heel and leave everything behind in the dust before she can allow herself to be given to him. And that's the reason why she can have his heart.

But maybe (probably) this is the lesson every man needs to learn for himself in his own way. Nobody can describe something that hasn't been experienced yet, it's just words.

You asked what to do about her interest? I can't say, but what you can do is go to her and say exactly what feels right to say, for better or worse. It might not 'work', but at least you will know who you are with or without her. And if you manage to get her to say exactly what feels right to her to say, then you might end up in a better position than where you left.

Because there will be no leaving 'on your terms'. The very thing that makes women so alluring and satisfying to dominate and make love to precludes this concept. The best thing you can hope for is to know yourself better through all the variety of experiences.

 

[Darius]

great wisdom as always

You're looking at it as if what she's offering is for free. It's not. It comes with all the strings of your history together attached.

that did not cross my mind. I just thought she wanted me, period. I see what you mean now.

Women are the ultimate bottom players. They offer things on the basis that you feel in control, and then they know exactly how to pull back and make you charge after them later on. They will do this until either the man tires and gives her what she wants, or does something so self defeating that he takes himself out of the race.

This... is what I'm yet to crack. It's a very adversarial way of thinking about it, isn't it? If this is what women do, how can a man maintain control over his relationships?

The very fact that you feel bad not giving back her interest shows that she's already grabbing a bit of frame, because she knows you too well. You don't owe her anything, but it feels like, for old times sake ... and then you're back where you started. She didn't even offer a smile or a kiss or any tangible benefit and yet you feel like you're letting her down.

I don't know if this is weakness on my part or something else, but it's not especially related to her. I got so used to going after girls that I feel bad whenever I have a girl give me obvious signs of interest and not doing anything. If she were a cold approach girl or a friend I'd do the same. It's just... my masculinity coming out. I'm not yet sure if it has a bad side to it, as long as I maintain my strategic mind and don't do the stupid stuff that I did in the past (which also didn't work, so exactly 0 reason to do them).

I still don't get why she's doing it by the way. We're supposed to be over and she's supposed to be with her guy, and I'm supposed to have other women. My guess would be she probably cannot control it.

What if she gets touchy feely, you take her home, and then you get impossible LMR? What if you get back in a relationship, and then she decides it's over again? How will your ego feel about that?

I had thought about this, my plan was to honestly throw her out whenever she demanded anything from me. She's the side game to my overall mission of getting amazing with girls. The only reason I'm playing the game with her is cause she gives me something to play with and I feel like I'm strong enough to handle it. And it's a good learning opportunity to finesse my game in such situations. I learned my lessons, I'm not planning to fall for the crap that I fell for before.

With women, the only way to win is to really, honestly, be able to walk away at any time. That's why they are such beautiful, magnificent tests of men. A man must swallow his ego and smile in the face of defeat to a weak and fragile creature, turn on his heel and leave everything behind in the dust before she can allow herself to be given to him. And that's the reason why she can have his heart.

This is beautiful it's exactly what I was planning to change. I realised that 'horse' that I mentioned earlier, the conqueror that wants everything, that I think every man has within himself, is not entirely good. It has a dark side. That insidious part is thirst.

When we are not desiring things, rather, we are thirsting for them, it makes us chase the thing that we thirst after. Which is not bad in all circumstances in my opinion. Thirst can push a man to do great things for his cause.

But with girls thirst can be fatal. Because girls can see right through you, and not give you the very thing that you thirst after so much. And then you're screwed. One must recognise that thirst when it comes and eliminate it from one's thought patterns. And so, be willing to walk away at a moment's notice. That's when one has moved past thirst. The path is set, now to follow it

By the way, this very thing is what Chase said in his article on respect in a relationship. Amazing how some things are universal.

3 Rules to Get Women to Respect You in a Relationship

In "Dating Narcissistic and Egotistical Women," dehjomz asks the following about the decline of respect in a relationship: “The problem I've faced is that I've ended up liking certain girls a great deal, but they have turned out to be selfish, cold, domineering, and narcissistic. But they were...

www.girlschase.com

You asked what to do about her interest? I can't say, but what you can do is go to her and say exactly what feels right to say, for better or worse. It might not 'work', but at least you will know who you are with or without her. And if you manage to get her to say exactly what feels right to her to say, then you might end up in a better position than where you left.

If I talk to her she'll just deny everything ahah. We're past talking. It's more primal than that. I must beat her at her own game. If she ever tries to do this kind of stuff again I'll probably chase frame her or just laugh and give her some eye contact. Unless other people have specific ideas.

Thanks a lot for your responses Will, definitely fun to bounce ideas and knowledge back and forth