Seppuku's Journey into Seduction

[Seppuku]

January 16 - caught in the bubbles

Just to be precise, I always change the girls name here - they could be identified and get into serious trouble.

Joanne is blowing a fuse. She gave me a drama that I am not looking for a relationship, merely a "companion". More of the drama is my views on marriage. She feels she owes a marriage to her father and she whines that all the guys she met are divorced and have a trauma from marriage. Well nevertheless what are these women who make a fuss about relationships and marriage but refrain from giving you a proper kiss. Actually for the right girl I am pretty open to the outcome but a relationship starts with a kiss and a good fuck. Sorry to be blunt.

More bubbles are coming out of Anne, my match from last week. We've chatted a lot, and probably too much. Probably killed it. Another one adamant about marriage. Now she's getting crazy with questions on my ex wife. I don't know what's with them, they have to compare themselves with my ex or whoever has been in my life. Leave this to me, please! So, when it became too much I told her "The topic of my ex-wife is now closed". See if she reverts to me after that. I have already asked her out and she answered "I'm thinking", so it's still open. She seems to be a bit crazy and drama prone anyway, I have to be careful not to get stuck into another energy drainer.

And there is Kiara, my Tinder match. She's a flight attendant from Qatar Airways. When I initially asked her out (on Jan 4) there was no answer. Following Ray's advice (thanks !) I did not let her get the leverage on me, so as she was still silent I told her "It's ok, we can do next week if you're busy". On Jan 11th she texted me "I'm free tonight or tomorrow". I proposed a date on the 12th, the next day, and she said "OK sure". Then no news of her on the 12th. On the 16th she's back again with a "hey". I answered a short text. No news yet. Not sure about this one, she's either an attention whore (as Colt described) or really interested but shy to meet me.

Here is something about online game. As opposed to meeting a girl in the real world, in online game I find it is necessary to undergo a little bit of information exchange, some degree of deep diving, before it can be turned into a date. Yet you should not be caught into too much chatting, which eventually is not good (probably what happened with Anne), kills mystery and removes the point of a face to face meeting. There is a line to be drawn, but some girls want to suck you into the chatting world, way beyond this line. I am curious to see what Colt has to say on the subject on his new webinars.

 

[Seppuku]

January 17 - Maeva and trying Colt's stuff

This morning I went through Colt's two first webinars "Getting laid on Tinder". Well here it's essentially WeChat, but it works pretty much the same. The mobile app determines the users in a 10 km radius and display their profiles. The profiles are in a facebook fashion, a profile pic then lots of public pictures or posts or links. You approach by sending a "Greeting" which is very much like a friend invite in FB except that you can join a very short text message. If the invite is accepted, you can then proceed to text message. I've had some success in September which led to great dates and my (ex) girlfriend Rachel. But since then I've had little more success on this app. Not sure what changed (I think I'm approaching the same way I did).

So I decide to apply a few of Colt's stuff immediately. First I put a picture of myself, actually on my 3rd date with Joanne, nice setting, dressed casual and cool, except that I crop Joanne out of the picture... almost entirely, as advised by Colt, so there's a very little bit of her left, her arm and a bit of long hair. It communicates pre-selection (great idea!). Second, I use the "song lyric" unconventional opener prescribed. I'm not too much aware of recent songs... So I turn to classics... And I decide to use Elvis Presley's "Love me tender" lyrics as an opener. So in my opening text, I write "love me tender love me true" and that's it. According to Colt, that works, go figure... It has at least the merit to be distinctively away from the usual "Hi" which is 99% of all openers. Up to now I admit that I did not pay attention to my opener text because I believed all is in the profile pic. And guess what, that worked. Got three responses (friend invites accepted) all within 10 minutes after I approached.

One of them is from Maeva, a 25 yrs old filipina, and in a couple of minutes it will turn into a same day date before I even have time to ask.

Me: Hi! So you're xxx? [she used a nickname in WeChat]
Her: I'm Maeva
Me: I'm Seppuku nice to meet you.
Her: You're in Doha?
Me: Yes. How old are you Maeva?
Her: 25, and you?
Me: 45. You look adorable I thought this elvis song suited you well
Her: Haha. Where do you live in Doha?
Me: In West Bay, very close to the City Center mall
Her: I work in the City Center Mall
Me: That's why I see you at 300m [WeChat show the distance to other users]
Her: You're from?
Me: France. And you?
Her: Philippines. By 5:45pm my job finishes
Me: Ok. We drink a juice.
Her: Where can we meet? Just for friends
[Some logistics. We agree on a venue]
Me: Can you send me a picture? [I always ask. It's my compliance request]
[She sends a nice one]
Me: Thank you [\Love icon] Beautiful
Her: You can send me too
[I send]
Me: I also have the same picture, without the shirt, but I'm not sending you yet lol ;-)

The date

I arrive in time. She's delayed with her boss, but she keeps texting that she'll come for a short while, so I can guess she must be very nervous. There is a little confusion about the place but we manage to meet. She's beautiful. We go to a cafe and I start the game which consists first of all to make her feel comfortable. Eye contact, confident smile, then deep dive and let her talk. A compliment "You're more beautiful than your pciture!". I start to build my touch compliance routine, first touching her arm and shoulders, then hands. Then I silently request her hand in mine, which she does for brief period of time. She explains that, like many asians, she does not do much public display of affection. I explain that well, in Qatar, anyway you should not because it can cause you serious trouble if police catch you. "That's why I think we should be better having a drink at the Kempinski lounge". The idea is now in the air. I clear with her that she has more time in front of her then we change venues and head to the Kempinski hotel, a 5 minutes walk. On the way there, I tell her "Very important, put your arm along your body" She does, I do the same. "Arms length not matching. If we hold hands I will have to bend or you wear heels" she laughs and start explaining about her high heels. After a while we're walking in an empty street and I hold her hand. We reach the Kempinski Lounge and get a table. I sit next to her, and hold her hand all the time from then on. It's dim light, very little people, quiet atmosphere. We have a cider beer. More deep diving. She's now very comfortable with my touch. I touch her arm, her back, her hair. We speak about an hour. She has to go for an evening part time job, and I have my children waiting for me at home. I make sure we have some plans in line for later in the week. Wrapping up, I reiterate my compliment. She says "You're very handsome!" "Thank you, it goes straight to my heart!" Well I'm 45 years old and I get a genuine compliment from a beautiful woman twenty years younger, I never had anything like that when I was tenty five. We go out hand in hand and get into a cab. "You have the right to kiss me here" I tell her, pointing to my right cheek, and she does. Very cute. She's not yet comfortable for the real kiss. A traditional asian woman who has never dated a westerner. After I leave, she immediately sends me a stream of very excited texts: "See you soon [...] I like your company [...] I like the way you are [...] But I will let you know you're handsome [...] nice meeting you [...] let me know your plan"

As we know with women nothing is ever granted but this starts pretty good. Next date planned on Tuesday. Logistics sounds good, she lives not too far, her workplace is a 5 minutes walk from my home, she lives with her brother so no real curfew or similar shit, she's doing regular hours, no crazy night shifts. If things go well I'm considering to make her my new girlfriend.

 

[Seppuku]

January 20 - Second date with Maeva

In the last few days I felt like shit. Although the first date seemed very promising and exciting, I could feel in the scarce text interaction I had with Mae that something had changed. To start with, immediately after I left her she texted me excitedly then in the very same evening turned silent. The next days my attempt to engage her was very unresponsive, just one sporadic text. So I decided to go silent as well and see. After my being silent, Maeva finally reverted to me this morning.

... [some greetings]
Me: I look forward to see you at 5:45 pm same place.
Her: It's fine but maybe we can do next time? We have family dinner out. Just notice yesterday night
Me: Can we do today as planned please?
Her: I will try
Me: No you tell me
Her: Which place we'll go?
Me: At 4 seasons hotel. This time we can try the beach bar. Make sure you have a jacket.
Her: I will try OK? I will ask my bro
Me: We make it short so that you can be back early. We can do 6 to 8
Her: Ok
Me: I'll be at City Center Mall at 5:45 same place
Her: See you at commercial bank outside of CC
Me: OK, I will be there

This is not what we had said. We were supposed to go out and I was to tell her the plan... So now there is a family dinner and I had to insist my way in.

I go at said time, and the second date turns out to be a fuck-up. To start with, her supervisor has not arrived meaning that she cannot leave her shop. While I wait she suggests that we do another time, and she lets me know she will join her family for dinner at 7:30. I tell her that no, I have come all the way to meet her and want to meet her. She sends me a picture of her in the meantime. I end up waiting one hour - breaking my 15 minutes no show rule. Finally I take her to the Mariott bar just next to the mall. Most of the excitement of last time is gone. I lock my eyes into hers and smile, holding her hand. I get her to kiss me gently on the cheek. I try to get a replacement date, she tells me all her week is full and taken. So I try the hard push method and insist. She says she will let me know. I say no, I want to know now. She says again that she will let me know. I say I don't like this, I want to know now, and insist again and again. "Why? You like me?" "Of course I do". She finally says Monday, but it does not sound too convinced. I take the counter approach. "Look, you are free to go anytime. I'm not forcing anyone to do things they don't want. I like to speak to people who want to speak to me too." etc... Anyway don't believe this Monday.

In the course of discussion I have this question popping up "So you are muslim?". Although I am French by my nationality, culture, first language, childhood, education, I happen to have an arabic name, which equates to muslim for many people. I actually happen to be christian. This question is of huge importance for Filipinas... But this one I had cleared it last time, I had already told her. But the matters comes again. My guess is she had spoken about me to someone else who told her that I must be a muslim with my name. Now, that would explain the turn in the relation. Incredible. I asked her "did I tell you truth about my marital status? My children? So why would I lie about my religion?" Looks like it starts to make some sense in her brain. Nevertheless we finally settle the bill and leave.

On our way to the taxi she tells me that she had understood that we would meet on the night before. Hence the already panned family dinner tonight and her aloof behavior the day before when I texted her. I ask her if she was upset that I did not invite her 24h earlier."No. I don't get angry. But sometimes I cry" On these loads of misunderstanding, I leave her. I tried the hard push, but I don't want to be the chaser now. Need to see if she reverts to me at all or if it's totally gone. Right after I left the taxi she sends me a text "Thanks". This one does not count. There has been no further exchange since then.

It is likely a fuck up, although many elements were out of my control. The mistake about the date was apparently genuine so she must have spent some time wondering why I was silent. Then the fact that this religion subject surfaced again, although we had cleared it on date 1, tells me that she must have discussed this with someone.

 

[Seppuku]

January 23 - year to date statistics

It's been three weeks into this new year and I can already draw some statistics on my online game. I have had 29 new contacts / matches this year, breaking down as follows:

• * Interacted with but quickly gone cold: 4
  * Meaningful interactions other than above: 9
  * Mamas hitting on me, or otherwise unattractive: 4
  * Unresponsive: 2 [these girls matched but never responded to my opening message]
  * Window shoppers and time wasters: 4
  * Unexploited matches (still prospective): 4
  * "Love me from afar" matches: 2 [girls from Africa hitting guys in Qatar]

Results

• *Dates: 3
  *Flaked dates: 2
  *Planned dates: 2
  *Date being discussed now: 1

Some of them are not actually interested in going anywhere than having a chatmate. These one suck your time for nothing; it is important to spot them early. Some of them would be interested but are over guarded, they test you over and over until you finally say something which does not fit into their super tight ideal picture dream guy. They're usually the 33+ yrs with a sense of a deadline and expiry date. Then there are the desperate mamas, 40+. No one hit on them so they have to do the approach etc... They end up orbiting me lol. Pour souls, really, it is not easy growing old as a woman, long past the days in their twenties when they thought they were on top of the food chain. The initially excited then grow cold segment deserves special attention.

Prospective thoughts

I've implemented a few changes in my profile and approach, from Colt Williams webinar, and that seems to improve my match rate, from probably one in fifteen, to about one in five. That's my estimate so far but it's been only a week. I am also implementing changes in my communication. Some pitfalls I avoid: my ex wife seems to drive some crazy; my children here (I'm a single dad) this I try to skip until I met her in person; my first name which fosters suspicion that I might be a muslim pretending to be christian. The latter one is surprising if coming from the west, as it was to me (honestly I never cared about that before) but for some women here (like Filipinas) it is a very big question. No need to shoot myself in the foot again, I now introduce myself as Pierre now, which is my second name btw.

Upcoming dates

I have finally agreed to a date with my orbiter Laurie, a 44 yrs woman who approached me two weeks ago and since then been texting me twice a day. She seems well preserved from the picture, let us see in real life.
Tomorrow I have a date planned with Lianna, a 30 yrs old cutie.
This morning I've been in touch with a 26yrs old and we have discussed about a date although no firm agreement yet.

 

[Seppuku]

January 24 and 25 - three dates back to back

24 Jan. During the day, in the afternoon I get to arrange a same day date with Renee my latest match on WeChat and we agree to meet around 9pm.

At 7:30pm I finally get to meet my orbiter Laurie... And it is a non event. I understand why her pictures are taken from afar, lol, she looks much older in reality than in the pics. On top of that she's too shy to even look into my eyes. We have a quick drink, I give her a friendly vibe but I can't wait it's finished. While we are drinking I message Renee "what is your phone number?" and she answers. Although we had plans to stay one hour with Laurie, after 30 minutes by common agreement I drive her back then drive to pick up Renee.

She leaves a 100m away from Joanne's place lol. She's tall, quite sexy and feminine plain shapes, long hair and glasses, her face is otherwise pretty ordinary. Overall pretty sexy with her heels and fitting pants. However her vibe is cool from the start. We start deep diving into each others story as I drive towards the Strata. I park in my parking lot then as we walk to the Strata I take her hand, and she holds it without objection. We spend some relaxed time, the waitress comes and I joke "we have one Sex on the Beach and one Guilty Pleasure please". I want to try bringing sexual topics. When the drinks come I ask again the waitress "Sex on the what? Did you say?" Renee answers "On the beach" and I tell her "reminds me that I have never tried that" "I would not advise you to try it" "Why not?" "I mean here in Qatar" "OK sure, but how about in the Philippines, you have so many beaches" etc... I still hold her hand. She regularly breaks contact but I keep taking her hand again. At some point it is me breaking contact and she then touches my forearm and leg. We are still deep diving into each others lives, bf gf, etc... At some point I caress her hair and bring in a compliment. Her vibe is still very cool.

After we leave in the elevator I hold her around the waist but her response is very neutral. As we get near my car I want to give a try. I don't feel it as her response to me was mild, but I want the data point on my experience to build in the confidence. I start talking about my apartment, how I moved into a smaller flat after my family left, but still large enough. "Would you like to come and see my flat for 5 minutes?" "OK" I still lead her by her hand and start talking stuff to divert her logical mind. We reach my flat. I show her my large kitchen with window bays and living room. As we stand in the living room, I take her in my arm and approach my face to hers. She faces her head away and say "We should go". This is going uphill so I see no point to insist here, and we leave for the car. Before I drop her at her home, I lean towards her and ask for the kiss again, but she just gives me her cheek. "Don't do in public places" well it's dark and no one in the street, but what the fuck, so be it, and I leave.

She texts me while I drive back, some thanks for the nice evening bla bla. OK first she probably has a colder personality than the other women I dated which were all very warm, and I did not initially know how to best handle this. She has a very strong and willful personality as well, so I should have started with her much more dominant... She is the same height as me which makes it harder. This is probably going uphill. In order to continue I want to see if there is some genuine will of hers to continue the interaction.

When I reach home I text Lucy (I called her Lianna in my previous post - whatever, I make up all names here) just to test waters about the date tomorrow and she responds. Her last text is "Good night Pierre see you later" so I infer I am still in.


25 Jan. Date with Lucy. During the day I poll her and it appears she has slept only two hours and she is sick with cold chills, headache, sore throat and blocked nose. Yet she is still in. As for myself I have slept 4h30 and not at my best self. We keep the date as agreed. For today I think it's best not to overdo it, just go, meet and see if we like each others.

By 8pm as I'm about to go she texts me to pick her up in a different place - it's closer and fine with me. She's out with two girlfriends and when we meet she asks me to drop her friends another place first. Fine with me. I want to play it cool and besides, the Philippines girls here are afraid to take taxi on their own. I decide to play it to my advantage, with social confidence and charisma. As we drive to the drop point I engage the group, tease them and get them to laugh. They're giggling and become excited and playful. They joke that Lucy is very happy today lol. I finally drop the two girlfriends. After they left I'm with Lucy and drive to the Strata bar my favorite date place. She's a sexy little kitten, thin, long brown hair, fitting blue jeans, very elegant and very pretty. The current seems to be flowing well between us from the first.

After the excited charismatic pitch with the three girls, I tone down a bit the vibe to make it cooler and sexier. I park in my parking lot (my building's parking) then as we leave the car I take her hand without asking and we walk all the way to the Strata nearby. She follows my lead very well. We have both a non alcoholic cocktail and deep dive gently into our stories. We're hands in hands all the time and I can tell she likes my touch as she is gently caressing my hand. As she looks away, I try "Look at me!" and she complies. She's sick though and she's here with me instead of being in bed. I decide to make it reasonable for now and drive her back. She hints at further meetings. In the car as I drive my right hand is on her leg and she puts her hands on mine.

Overall it went all smoothly, relaxed, no uncomfortable silence. She seems to be fairly into me. In the next days I will tone down the dating and online game and focus on my interaction with her.

 

[Seppuku]

January 27 - interesting interaction with Renee

Renee is the 26 yrs old Filipina I went out on a date last saturday night. As I reported in my previous post, I had already decided that she's tough headed, non compliant, and that to get anywhere with her would require a longer fight than I am prepared to give. I have had my share of this type of fighter girls in my youth and believe me, if you ever get into a relationship with a woman like this you need to have steel nerves and tough skin. So after our date I kept silent... until the 27th in the morning when she reverted to me first. It is 9:30 am and I am in my office when I receive her text. I report this interaction below because it's an interesting data point in my opinion. As said elsewhere, I change all names here, including mine.

[... some greetings ...]
Her: Send me a voice note here
Me: Sure, but why?
Her: I wanna hear your voice
Me: OK give me time, there's my colleague in my office now lol
Her: Willing to wait

That's a compliance request, but that's alright because she wants to hear my voice. I send her a 3 secs recording of me saying good morning. But soon it turns into compliance escalation. I give a fight.

Her: That's a very short one. I want a 5 mins one
Me: That's a phone call
Her: OK. 2 mins
Me: You know you will quit listening before the 2 minutes. Send me a good morning
Her: I'm waiting.
Me: I sent you a good morning. You did not. You're not being polite! Only takes 3 secs
[... more ...]
Me: would appreciate you return the greeting. I'm not as greedy as you, a good morning will suffice.
Her: Then you'll send me a 3 mins voice note?
Me: Then I will send you something, yes.

She sends a good morning voice note

Me: OK I'll send you something but for now I have to attend a meeting.

One hour later I send her a 20 secs voice in which I say a short french poem. She does not understand french anyway, all she wants is my voice. The text interaction now slows down, some sporadic texting, until later in the afternoon. She ask if I'm going to bring the kids to see Paddington the movie.

Her: Or daddy is tired? [there was a bit of mockery here in my opinion]
Me: No that's ok. A bit tight schedule though
[...]
Her: What makes your schedule tight [she sounds curious about my schedule]
Me: Out of office at 5, then movie 5:30. Manageable of course but tight. Then 7:30pm go back home then cook, then eat then send kids to shower, then to bed etc...
Her: Daddy must be tired [again... she sounds now challenging me]
Me: Well perhaps not enough. We could try some experiments on human resistance [...] We can add a date on top of this, lol [I had no plan of going this route with her... but she challenged me and I'm up to it]
Her: You can try. [The hell with this woman, I don't care]
Me: OK. Are you available after 9:30 pm tonight? We do some drinks
Her: Not tonight though. Some other time?
Me: Science will have to wait then. I was initially thinking of asking you for tomorrow night [not true. I had no such plans]
Her: Haha. Tom will be a better idea. But let me confirm before 5 pm tomorrow [Wow. Can't believe. Will not let her go this route]
Me: You want me to wait 24hrs for the answer to a simple question... You have other plans?
Her: Friend is arriving tom. OK. Then don't wait. Not tom. Let's arrange next week then.
Me: How about tonight then?
Her: I'm tired
Me: Haha, so it's you tired lol. Same, experiment on human resistance, but you're the subject! See at which point you fall asleep. Let's meet tonight, I pick you at 9:30 then we go to the crowne plaza.
Her: Can I confirm by 8:30pm?
Me: [Tired of this, after all I don't care] OK deal

Two hours later

Her: Hi Pierre, I can't make it today. I'm good to go out. Sorry.
Me: Alright, Renee, we do another time then.

She initially said she was busy this evening, but then she would have sent the tomorrow date into limbo, trying to double date me, so instead of pushing this away to next week [= never] as she suggested I decided to try for tonight anyway. She was probably expecting the confirmation for a date tonight and accepted me as a contigency plan. I have no plan to contact her again, but would be curious to see if she comes back to me... again!

 

[Seppuku]

January 30 - brief interaction at cashier

Online game has absorbed me in the last 4 months, with some degree of success. I have come to the point where I think I can pull dates consistently and plan to post more on where I stand today with online game.

However the momentum I started building on daygame before (however small) was interrupted. One benefit from the online game is that I start building some abundance mentality. I can easily move on to the next girl because I have a process to get dates. Therefore I don't care so much about fucking it up. And this, must benefit the daygame too, and help me overcome approach anxiety. I have to test this. Furthermore, daygame is also a broad avenue I cannot afford to miss.

Need to re-build the momentum again. This interaction happened spontaneously yesterday at the cash counter in Carrefour the local hypermarket store. It was early morning, the lady at cash counter was still fresh and relaxed and there weren't loads of guys waiting in the queue behind me. This is what makes hitting on cashiers difficult usually, high stress, pressure, plenty of people.So, easy today, and here she is with her long breaded hair and very sexy smile. I pull my own sexy smile. She initiates.

Her: [smiling] Is it your daughter birthday? [I bought candles]
Me: My son. He turns 12 year old. Do you remember me? Or too many customers?
Her: No sir, because I'm just back from vacations...
Me: I do remember you, I saw you before, your sexy smile... But I don't remember your name... Show me your name card?
Her: [she complies] Ann. What's your name?
Me: I'm Pierre

[In the mean time the debit card machine turns off as it was expecting my code and I did not enter it in time. She has to re enter the amount]

Me: See? I was distracted, your name, your sexy smile... My son turns 12 years old, and I also have a daughter age 7. I'm a single dad!
Her: Nice to meet you [She looks at me] Now I will remember you [she bows]

I leave her and then think that I should have asked for her number! One of my sticking point in daygame is that I have to go over the "test her reaction" only and really pull a process. The good point is I now have a better picture of the latter phases in the process (dating).

 

[ray_zorse]

Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

The problem you're having with the cashier is something I have struggled with in all my interactions today (and generally -- not pulling the trigger after establishing rapport is a sticking point for me). But I can tell you you need more rapport with her than what you described, before pulling the trigger. Start by comlimenting her and asking her name, preferably before starting your transaction. Based on name and appearance cold read her on her ethnicity... try to display some knowledge of, or interest in, her country (even just knowing the name of the capital city helps... for instance there's a lot of Taiwanese girls here and I usually ask them if they are from Taipei and if not, whether they speak Hokkien at home)... then ask how she came to be in Qatar (usually its student or working holiday in the case of women around here)... see if she opens up a bit, then hit her up for a date at a high point, if you don't ask these basic questions she will probably flake as she'd feel you only asked her out on looks alone & must be pretty shallow I feel.
-Ray

 

[Seppuku]

January 31 - End of week review and thoughts

This week I tried another opener from Colt Williams's online dating program. "Just distracted by your cuteness" and variations around that seem to generate a good response rate. As said last week I also changed my pictures along his suggestions. Altogether it seems that I have improved my response rate from 1 in 15, to about 1 in 5. This is the number of answers I get to online cold approaches, which results in further interaction happening.

10 new contacts this week, breakdown:
* 4 I'm not finally interested (too old, or too basic expression level)
* 2 time wasters, including one "love me from afar"
* 2 gone cold
* 2 Actual new prospects (work in progress)

Learnings so far
* A match should be turned into a date quickly or slip into a chat trap
* Therefore do not try to get new matches if you do not have available time within at most 48 hrs
* The question arises when you get contacted but do not have free time soon. Several contacts lost to this. "Text you later" is fairly risky.
* On WeChat about 20pct response rate, i.e. 1 in 5
* Match to date rate: about 1 in 10
* Date to bed rate: still unknown but maybe one girl I date in five ends up in bed?
* So maybe about 250 approaches for one bedding

Actions taken
* Avoid chat trap
* Push for a date soon
* Avoid issues around my name
* Don't communicate certain things before face to face
* Shit happens, change in hearts, external factors etc... so reduce time spent in initial dating

The Match-to-Date and Date-to-Bed rates can be both improved, however there is an extra dimension as compared to daygame. In online game you often discovers surprises along the way:
* She could be older
* She could be less cute or fatter
* She could be dumb (yes! I had these)
* "Love me from afar" time wasters, contacting you from other countries, either want a platonic daydream chat, or want you to help her get a visa ;-)

these make the online game less efficient in percentage terms. You don't have these in daygame because you see who you are dealing with from instant 0. In online game you see the person face to face for the first time, on the first date.

My dating capacity: 2 per week realistically. One of them could be a recurring date (2nd date from the previous week), so it's really one new date per week. With current efficiency, that's about 50 approaches. As said above, generating the matches too early is counterproductive because they will soon expire. So the idea is to do about 25 approaches a day within two days of the planned day.

One sticking point: the strong "Anti-Sex" frame
I have seen that many times already. Very early, usually on Date 1, the girl pushes a very strong "anti-sex" frame. She mentions about some past experience about guys who've been trying to bring them to bed or FWB them, with a negative tone, and then she carries on by mentioning all the options she could have if she was interested "only in sex". You get this in your face in date 1 like a wall. So far I had been a bit surprised and dealt with it as I could. Juvy, Imee, Mae did it, and it has held me back. Key to my success I think is to handle that without bowing into it. The approach I am planning now is to go around it, without facing it upfront, by throwing vague answers, but proceeding nevertheless. In other words don't engage her logical mind on it and otherwise ignore and proceed.

 

[Seppuku]

Quick note

In my previous post I reported my first estimate on statistics, based on 4 months of experience in on-line matching apps.

Would love to hear from you guys what are your statistics, based on whatever flavor of the game you are practicing!

Just don't hesitate to drop a note on this, or whatever comment you want to make!

 

[ray_zorse]

Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

I put some stats here: https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9089
In the meantime I racked up another lay, more kisses and fingerbangs and more dates...

I do about equal parts day game, night street game and night game. Actually, my stats aren't that impressive and it's clear from your results, and how you've levelled up over such a short period of time, that online dating is simply much more efficient in terms of getting lays and reference points. However the reaaon I do things the way I do them is simply that I enjoy it. Sure it's seriously fuckin frustrating having a massive boner for days and nowhere to put it, but when the lays come its enormously satisfying to know you did it all by yourself in the old fashioned way... more important though is the thrill of just opening a hot girl and not knowing how she'll react. And the challenge of having everything on point for the critical seconds -- fashion, posture, facial expressions, eye contact, voice, .....

Ray

Edit: Oh yeah I forgot to mention I did about 1000 approaches to make this happen -- about 30 outings of 30 approaches per outing plus bits and pieces here and there. That's about 6 outings per month for 5 months. However, my approaches are much more efficient now. They usually hook, my only real sticking point is not asking for the date / number (but I do not tend to go for numbers much anyway, mainly insta-dates).

 

[Seppuku]

Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Hey Ray,

Thanks for the input! The link is super interesting. So Anatman and Rdawg mention a Date-to-bed ratio of about 5, more or less my estimate. Including your LR- , you do about 1 lay for 7.5 outing, not bad when you view it this way. Would be interesting to read what you did to improve your approach efficiency!

Day game is a great skill, congratulations. Night game is not for me, I'm not much a nightclub / bar sort of guy. But I am planning to catchup on day game that I have set aside for now.

Cheers,

Seppuku
BTW how old are you?

 

[ray_zorse]

Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

The approach efficiency is really down to my conversation, I usually know what to say to get them talking about themselves. It's a question of cold-reading mainly, I posted an example here: https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9366&p=45194#p45181.

What's not in the example is also cold reading her nationality which I can usually do based on name, accent and appearance. Once I've cold-read her country and got it confirmed I use certain facts about each country, for instance if she's Taiwanese I ask if she speaks Hokkien. I also have a stock of useful openers and compliments. And strategies for specific situations like sitting girls, girls with earbuds, girls in groups, etc...

The main thing about all this is practice, because when you cold read, you often get it wrong, but having exercised the mental facilities and then gotten feedback you always remember it for next time (same as if you're revising for an exam by doing practice questions and then checking the answers... compared with revising for an exam by just passively reading the book). And, each time you talk to a girl from a certain place or with a certain job or whatever... you gain useful facts that you can use again in similar situations later (in above example it was about Hokkien).

Another thing to keep in mind is sexual flirting / sexual frames / chase framing, my game hasn't been totally on point in recent days but on a good day I can get a bit of that out in the initial minutes, and it tends to hook them harder... for instance I met a New Zealander who was looking for a phone shop... I said "dear me what have you done to your phone... and do you punish your boyfriends as hard as you punish that phone?" etc. Here's another interaction I sexed up: https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8232&start=50#p44306

I enjoyed reading your stats, I thought it was a shame that only a few of us got on board with Anatman's idea, but I guess we are all kinda busy.

-Ray
Edit: I'm 39

 

[Seppuku]

February 6th - another busy week

This Friday 6th closed another very interesting week indeed, where I see some dynamics arising from my past interactions with women, and in fact no need to go for more fishing on WeChat.

It actually started the previous Friday 30. I noticed that Nicky was back on Badoo. Nicky is a 24 years old smoking hot Kenyan girl and a Badoo match previous November. We started chatting at that time but then I got my hands full (literally!) between my then girlfriend Rachel, and my date Joanne. We kept the chat line, but then by end of December she had deleted her Badoo profile and I had no ways of contacting her again. So when I saw her with a new profile on Friday I immediately re-contacted her. This time I made sure I had her number and we switched to Whatsapp almost immediately. The interaction went good immediately, very playful, exchanging some pictures and hinting at a date on coming Monday.

On Saturday, I have the surprise of seeing Macey reconnecting with me. Macey is a sexy filipina I had met on Badoo in November. It started on a very exciting tone... And we were due to meet for a brief date. I was due to drive and pick her up but until the last minute she could not communicate her address in clear terms. When I pointed it to her, she started along the line "It's ok, if you don't want to pick me up at home, I will just continue to sleep" Well what game are we playing in? I told her that I was not playing into this game, and cancelled the date. So this Saturday I see her back to me after two months. She sent me her new phone number and switched to whatsapp.

Sunday evening I go out with Lucy and two of her girlfriends on the occasion of Lucy's birthday, and we spend a very nice evening out at the Lounge in the Kempinski hotel. Well this is more like a social evening rather than a date, but me alone with three cute girls I get pre-selection big time from other girls present in the Lounge.

On Monday morning, as expected Renee recontacts me on Monday on the topic of French team winning the handball world cup. What she was really doing, in my view, is testing waters. She was likely expecting me to rush back in the chase on the occasion. But I am a regular Girls Chase reader, and have now many other girls texting me on my phone, so I answer in a playful, non chasing way some banalities on the french team... But not giving in to her chase frame. Haha! I guess she's not used to this. I'm curious to see if she will still try to come back later or just auto reject. And this is where my friends I measure the progress I made since I started a year ago.

Then on Monday evening I have a great date with Nicky (also at the Lounge in Kempinski lol). She's pretty, she has the most fantastic ass I have ever been this close from, and she's super sexy, not only the way she dresses but also the way she communicates. The most exciting interaction I've had since I started by far. This will deserve a separate post!

On Wednesday I meet for a brief date with Macey at the city center mall and she's really a charming woman with very sexy eyes and alluring shapes. Now her logistics are really difficult. She's working everyday from 1pm to midnight, except for one day off every fortnight (she also has a half day off every other week... what that means is she works from 4pm to midnight instead). This makes it very unrealistic... Although she looks very much int me, I don't think I will pursue this lead.

Finally on Thursday I have Joy over text. Joy is this woman I almost went out 4 weeks before... and she eventually flaked. See my entries for Jan 9 and Jan 10. Since then I have continued to keep the contact on Whatsapp, initiating a short casual chat once in a very while. In my latest chat I tell her that I went around in the Pearl (where her fashion shop is) and told her that the shops don't look too busy. In her answer, she asks why I did not inform her in advance of my visit and inquires if I saw her. It is not the first time. There is a big hint here that she'd like us to see each other face to face first at her workplace. OK hint well noted. I tell her "If you met me, you would see the sort of gentleman that makes good dates lol" "I am still looking forward to a date hehehe" and instead of rushing to the suggestion, I answer "Happy to hear It's something that can definitely arranged. If possible in 2015 lol" Before making any move I want to see if she just want to lead me in close orbiter zone. So here I will take more time before moving, and maybe meet her face to face at her workplace as hinted... Only when I have a chance to be in her area.

There is more. I have a developing interaction with a woman in Bangkok. Sexy with large boobs, elegant and intelligent, she's an entrepreneur and looking for opening a shop in Doha, so that could lead to some interesting future development, plus, I could go to Thailand some time. And, I just matched with another beautiful Kenyan girl working at the airport here, let us see how this develops.

Stats for the week.

New matches - 3
New dates - 2
Recurring date - 1

The most promising interaction is definitely Nicky, I will post a separate post on this, and I expect further developments.

 

[Seppuku]

February 17th - Valentines update

It's been 10 days since my last update and so many things happened. It seems that all my efforts since early January are finally paying off.

With Nicky this 24 years old smoking hot Kenyan girl with advantageous shapes our interaction finally turned into a regular fuck festival. I have detailed our interaction on my LR. On Monday 9 I take her on a quick date at the Sheraton - a bar with live music, nice but noisy. We have a quick drink, I pay the check then proposes her to come tasting this french wine at home. She objects, I handle her objection and soon we're on my sofa, making out. It gets very hot, almost fully naked but does not go all the way because she has her period. On Friday 13 we have our next date at the Intercontinental, Strata bar. By 00:45 am we leave and go straight to my home and quickly turn to sex, this time I go all the way. Yesterday the 16th she came straight to my home (no more bar needed) and we happily confirmed the regular fuck date.

With Lucy, this 30 years old Filipina cutie, after the two first very gentle dates (which were more like social evenings) we finally date alone and face to face on Sunday 8, then for a belated Valentines date on Sunday 15th. I am preparing an LR- on this. Both times I managed to make her come to my home and escalated into hot action, e.g. fingering her, although the full sexual intercourse did not take place. She is a very nice woman but at the same time very conservative and a little inexperienced as far as I can tell. This is probably as far as I can get with her, to do more will require more patience and time and I won't have it most probably.

On Valentines Day itself... But first a quick note on Valentines Day. It occurs to me as a very cruel joke against women, when you think about it. Who in the hell invented that, I wonder. See:

• * If they are in a happy couple with passion and sex, such as in the beginning of a relationship, then everyday is Valentine's Day, so nothing special on Valentines Day itself.
  * In the other cases they're in a couple, they go out on Valentines Day with their man and most of the time he is more or less obliged to do it, or else he faces a crisis. And so it's not spontaneous and they feel frustrated.
  * But when they're not in couple, then it is a cruel reminder that they're still single... and then they can get desperate to find someone to go out with, just to say... Haha. I call this the Valentines effect.

So although I did not go out on Valentines Day itself I had some interesting interactions.

There is Abby, a 22 yrs old Filipina I met on WeChat. We had long chats, and her logistics are quite difficult (she's a nurse working night shifts) so I did not pursue... But this Saturday 14th, by 9:30 am she reconnects with me and starts sending big hints at a meeting right now. I finally arrange to go and meet with her briefly in some coffee shop later in the morning. She's sort of cute but not that pretty, at the same time an easy going lady and the vibe is good. We walk hand in hand, and when I drive her back I caress her leg. She has a curvy body, I'm sure my hands would find their way around it lol. Valentines effect. Contact kept.

Then there is Joy again. By 9:30 pm on this Valentines Day it's me recontacting her, but I find her immediately responsive on text, and it's her mentioning a meeting face to face. When I answer positively she suggests that we meet right now... Valentines effect again lol. We finally reason that it's best to organize the date coming saturday rather than a hasty one right now. Plus, on my side, at this time I have two dates (Lucy, then Nicky) planned in the next 48 hrs so I need to save energy, haha!

Today as I write this, I have both of them re-initiating the chat. Joy texted to confirm the date on coming Saturday - she's doing the anti-flake text lol.

Thinking about it, two years ago I had an Egyptian friend telling me that Doha is a dating Paradise, and at that time I thought he was bragging...

 

[Seppuku]

February 28th - Month end update

Wow again two weeks passed since my last input and many things have happened since then.

There has been some more fuck dates with Nicky, however the last one failed in a silly way and our interaction went awry after that. On Thursday 19th I arrange a quick meeting with her. I pick her after work at midnight and bring her home. Things escalate quickly and suddenly she's sucking me. Again, she's doing good, very good... Want to come, but hold myself. Then she's off to the toilet as she needs to "freshen up". When she's back, my hard on has melted away. We lay side by side for some time, and then I'm back. I'm ready to penetrate her now... Her pussy does not smell good. Well, a day at work. That does not help. And now she's dry which make things difficult. Finally I become soft again and we give up. It's 1 am, I bring her home. During the week end that followed, our texting has been minimal. On Monday 23rd, her day off, she texts that she has strong flu symptoms, feel very bad and will stay in bed. After that I stop messaging her. On the 26th she's back to me, complaining that I disappeared. I guess she's angry that I did not take her news. Communication is again off since then.

On the logistics side, things are very difficult as my ex-wife arrived on the Friday 20th to visit the children. She's staying with us - strictly separate beds lol. But no way I can bring a girl home for a fuck in the meantime.

I finally got a date with Joy, that Filipina woman I've been trying to go out with since beginning of January. On Saturday 21st I meet her at the Pearl at 10 pm right after she finishes work, then I take her to the Strata bar - my favorite bar at 55th floor of the Intercontinental Hotel, with stunning city view. The initial meeting is a little bit shy from her side, but I eventually make her feel alright and we walk hand in hand from my parking lot to the Intercont. She is very pretty, feminine, she has nice cheeks that demand kisses, sexy eyes and long nice hair. I like her. We have some sushis and I help her with the chopsticks. We tell each others our stories and I hold her hand all the time. She caresses my hand and arm, I have my left hand over her shoulder and she puts her head against mine. I kiss her lovely cheek. We have our cocktails and enjoy the view. Nice time. We walk back hand in hand to the car. After I drive home she leaves fast and does not turn back. I had good feeling all the time his evening except this last minute. Although she said several times that she would be willing to see me again, I am not so sure. From her story she is separated from her husband (he cheated on her and left her) but I am now guessing that she secretly hopes to get him back. In this case, well, force majeure, no issue, and I won't insist here.

After the extremely pleasant surprise of dating Nicky this Kenyan girl, I am willing to continue my exploration of the African continent, lol. Doha is a cosmopolitan city where all nationalities are represented. In Badoo I engage several black young women, and on the 22nd I get a match with July, a 24 yrs old from Kenya too. Well, this is worth an LR- in its own right. We have a brief date on Friday 27th and she ends up sucking my dick in my car. Well, no complain lol.

Things are not over with Lucy this Filipina girl I've been dating several times (I am still due to write this LR-) and I meet her over lunch on the 28th. There will be more interactions and possibly more happy endings ;-)

 

[Seppuku]

March 16th - Back to Doha

Haha, so now I am a tool bearing hominid lol.

It's been some time since my last update. I was away for ten days, vacations and personal business, and now back to Doha.

February was a very active and fruitful month. I made almost no new contact, and was essentially capitalizing on the momentum that I had built before. That is, I was exploring the connections I had made in January, and concluded successfully with two LR and one LR- (technically my LR- with Lucy turned into an LR since I managed to go all the way with her eventually). Most of the momentum is now wearing out.

There was no follow up from my date with Joy. My attempts to reconnect with her turned short. My guess (from her various Whatsapp status) is that she is still hoping to win back her ex-husband, and honestly I wish her success. Instead of spilling my beans and chasing her, I have observed silence since one month. Because I was so keen on her, I may consider to reconnect with her some time later... maybe.

Nicky went cold because she once told me she was sick, and I failed to take some of her news. When she came back to me, she was obviously upset, and frankly I don't want to manage no woman's mood. I had much more than my fair share of this during my 15 years marriage. Honestly her (or any woman's) angers and moods are hers to manage. She deals with her temper, not me. I'm not angry, she is. Well then I won't be trying to solve her problem. So finally the whole interaction turned cold.

Julie - I had this promising interaction detailed in my LR-... On our very first time face to face, she litterally jumped at my dick and gave me a fine blowjob in the car. But it turned sour. From the next day she started to call me directly on my mobile at random times. I tried to explain that I couldn't. As soon as I was back from my trip, just reaching the airport, she texted me to poll if I was back, then called me when I was in the taxi. Then she called me the same night at 11:55 pm (I was sleeping), the next morning at 7:30 am (I was bringing my daughter at school) then three times during the day (I was in my office with colleagues). We met once and she's already all over the place, her behaviour is very intruding, that does not smell anything good. So bye, you're out of my life. I erased her contact details and did not answer any call.

And there is Lucy. She is super cute, and our last meeting yesterday (I posted an update on my LR-) ended up with me fully inside her. I wish to continue our interaction and possibly make her my girlfriend.

Yet I still want to go on dating on the side nevertheless and continue this learning experience. I have a dating capacity of two evenings per week. I currently see Lucy once a week, which leaves me with one empty spot per week.

I have currently no new prospect. There would be Abby - this 22 yrs old I went on a micro-Valentine date with. She seems very into me, she texted me several times after our microdate. She's not that beautiful, but reasonably cute, and my hands could find their way over her womanly shapes lol... But the logistics side seems nearly impossible. She works at night, and her day off if on Saturday day-time (I'm with my kids then). Her evening out is Friday evening, but she has a curfew at 11pm (yes - this sort of stupid rules is a reality for many girls in Qatar). On Friday evening I usually put my kids in bed around 10pm. So... there seems to be no obvious way here.

So I am going to need to build momentum again.

 

[Seppuku]

March 20 - Date with Della

Ok so here I am back in Doha with the need of building momentum again.

One of my past conclusions (last end of January I think) is that when I go fishing on WeChat i should always keep the end goal in mind:

* making a new contact then trying to make her "wait" until I have a free slot is a waste of time
* there is only a limited amount of time I can realistically wait before making things happen
* Therefore, it is counter productive to go fishing if there is no clean logistic window available in the coming next few days

On the other hand I have my regular slot with Lucy on Sunday evening. I commit myself to devote my weekends (friday - saturday in this part of the world) with my children. Therefore I should aim at filling the Wednesday evening slot.

With this in mind I open my WeChat on Wednesday morning with the goal of getting a date for the same day evening. I approach 8 girls with my "love me tender" opener. All guys out there send a boring "hi" or "hello" so I know I stand well ahead of the crowd with his opener. I get two answers within minutes. One of them is Vanessa, another kenyan girl, but when I start talking about dating she mentions about being broke. I stay clear of girls who throw their personal problems, especially financial ones, at my face from the very beginning. Bye bye.

The other is from Della, a 33 years old Filipina. Her pictures seem pretty and she has a nice and warm smile. Our initial exchange is remarkable lol:

[Some introductory questions ... Age, job, how long in Doha, etc...]
Her: Well you must have tasted the finest dishes... I might fall short of your standards
Me: I find asian food delicious to be honest ;-)
[LOL!]
Her: You got your family here with you?
Me: Haha marital status lol... I'm divorced. You?
Her: Single.
Me: OMG no!
Her: ???
Me: I prefer married women ;-)
Her: Hahahah
Me: Joking. Not true. But maybe you prefer married guys?
Her: Lol. Well I'm happy being single.
[... Pictures exchanged ...]
Me: We could have a drink some time and meet for real ;-)
Her: That's sound cool.

Numbers exchanged, we switch to Whatsapp.

Issue turns out to find a good timing - in weekdays, she wakes up 4:30 every day, so in bed at 10 max. Weekends are not ideal fro me as explained above. I leave the chat in cliffhanger for now. She reengages me in the evening and then the following morning. More chats. Selfies. No date planned concretely yet. Then on Thursday evening she re-approaches me with the idea of meeting on Friday evening. My attempt at deflecting it to Saturday instead failed. So OK for Friday evening.

So on march 20, 8pm we meet at W hotel then later move to the Strata. She's cute but nor nearly as attractive at what her pictures implied. Yet she has womanly shapes that I cannot ignore as a man lol. From her body language she seems into me. When I put my hand forward towards her she immediately puts her hand in mine. I don't do my full touch routine on her although I hold her hand when we walk and occasionally hold her by the waist. I am not sure what to do with her, should I proceed with my plan to bring her home? At 10:30 my kids are still not sleeping (they messaged me) so I guess that's my answer. We finish our drinks by 11pm and it's a bit risky to try home now. I also recall that she mentioned having her period. So finally I decide not to spill my beans for now and defer. When we part we cheek kiss each other. She initiates messaging later in the evening after I reach home, and the next morning. She is very much into me but I don't want to set false expectations.

I am not in a position to offer a serious relationship now and I think I will directly raise the topic with her. To be continued.

 

[ray_zorse]

Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Seppuku I'm often struck by how we seem to share similar challenges, I also have a dating capacity of 2 evenings per week (Tuesdays and Thursdays, I have meetings on Monday and kid time on Wednesday and every second Friday)... and, although I do not have quite the turnover you have, I am levelling up and have a satisfactory number of women I'm talking to. So that some of them actually go cold because I do not contact them due to lack of available slot. Also, getting the problem of women falling in love with me, this is mostly a good thing, but, there are also some time wasters (won't get intimate, then message next day proposing further meetup, etc). Like you I haven't been hitting it all that hard this week (because of a flu, not a business trip but same effect), need more momentum soon!
Ray

 

[Seppuku]

Re: Seppuku's Journal - dating in Doha

Hey Ray,

Yes, I bet we face similar challenges! As we advance in age the number of responsibilities increases and as a consequence time becomes a tighter resource. Now I only initiate an approach if I see a free time slot in the next two days, otherwise it is just counterproductive.

And yeah, it is a matter of momentum. If you stop for a while, it will eventually fall flat, so you've got to keep going.

For getting intimate, I make sure I have my hands on the girl from day one, and sometimes from the very first minute I meet her. That communicates more messages than lots of talking it seems. I am surprised how this is actually well received. If you do it gradually and naturally you can even get to touch their boobs and ass and have them giggle about it. Have a few data points already lol.

I am the first one surprised by my turnover, it came so suddenly. Excluding the micro-dates, in the last 6 months I dated 12 women, bedded 4 of them. Before that it was desert. I see several reasons:

* It took me some time to fully digest and internalize GC's material. All my previous life I had learned the standard way of competing on Provider values. I am still unlearning it.
* I think I have effectively upped my fundamentals and sexy vibe thanks to GC
* I am learning a goal driven process
* It is a self reinforcing virtuous cycle, the more success the better you become, therefore more success
* I'm a white guy, this naturally appeals to Asian and Black girls I think

But there is another factor: social status. Due to the work-based immigration in Qatar, your nationality sort of defines your social status. In Europe I would be upper middle class. But here in Qatar, as a western expat I have implicitly a high status in Qatar society. Another thing is that, although demographics here are skewed (3 males for every female in Qatar) there is actually a shortage of available high value guys here. Many girls won't go for a Qatari, and most western expats are married with kids. The rest is a majority of single low status workers. This is to say that, I think, I am lucky enough to benefit from a combination of country specific factors. It would be interesting to see how much of all this I would be able to pull if I were back in France. But I think I will retain some of the things I learned, the abundance mindset and the process.

Hey in the mean time keep up with your direct approach technique, I would love to be where you are on this!

Cheers,
Seppuku