Sex on the first date or no?

[13829938]

I had a string of one night stands from Tinder dates, and I wasn't liking it. I know Blackdragon talks about how going for SECOND date sex is actually ideal for keeping girls around. So I started trying that. It seemed to work with retention.

But recently, I had a date that seemed to go really well... and the girl went cold. So I figure this is a good chance I could get some feedback on dating strategies. Here's what happened:

This girl is an artist and I'm in a band. During one of our concerts, she displayed her art on the walls and had a little booth. She told me I killed it and was very positive. I jokingly told her she should paint me some time. she handed me a card and said she was actually going to do a community project.

The next day I shoot her a quick email to the address on her card. I hear nothing back. Months go by. Then she matches me on Hinge. i hit her up and tell her I emailed her. She said she marked like 800 emails as read. I told her I'd like to get to know her better. She said she really wanted that. We scheduled a date for a week out. And then neither of us talked the entire time until the day before, when she hit me up to see if we were still on.

I thought that was cool, cause usually when I plan something with new girls that far in advance, it doesn't happen.

Anyway, the date seemed to go very well. We talked for about 2 hours over coffee. Just bullshitting and laughing and having an amazing time. I touched her a bit as normal and she was very touchy with me as well. I had some work to do and she was running to the store. So, I walked her to her car and gave her a hug. We planned to hang 3 days later, and she seemed very enthusiastic and even pinpointed the exact time on her schedule she'd be free.

Well, 3 days later came and I hit her up. She said someone got fired and she had to fill their spots. So I texted her that was fine and we could reschedule. She didn't text back. Then that weekend, I texted her to go to an art show with me. She said her head was hurting but if she felt better that night she'd let me know. Well, she didn't respond.

I'm not worried about it. But I am trying to figure out what to do with dates in particular. Maybe I should've tried to extend it with her and get her back to my place? Should I always shoot for first date sex?

I recently made a post where Chase told me a lot of things that could be the reasons why I'm having one night stands and girls aren't sticking around. So if I address those fundamentals, is first date sex always the go-to? I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts.

 

[Cody Lyans]

Think about it this way... U r unemployed and looking for work. New boss says, the start is at the end of the week, you go, not much goes on, you go home. Next week he says he has a shift and you say you have to deal with stuff, he gives another shift later and you pass.
What do you do?
You look for another job cuz you are not excited about this one.

Why no excitement? Because the team is not excited about you, you don't feel like you are gaining a lifestyle or people to impress and fit in with. You feel alone and tired.

Gotta remember, girls seek guys to help BUSY THEIR LIFE WITH ACTION
Don't seek to only give action when they are lazy on the couch
Catch them in momentum or be a catalyst for further momentum

Make sense?

 

[13829938]

hey man, thank you. This seems very profound and I'm trying to wrap my head around it.

Are you saying I should talk more... or demonstrate more... about my lifestyle on the date? Maybe paint a vision of where she could fit into it? Or, should I simply become a busier guy?

I'm also not sure what you mean with giving action when they are lazy on the couch vs momentum and being a catalyst. Could you explain a little further?

 

[foggy]

yes always do first date sex, especially if she wants it.

she wanted to fuck you that night and you rejected her (unknowingly)

 

[13829938]

yes always do first date sex, especially if she wants it.

she wanted to fuck you that night and you rejected her (unknowingly)

Hmm, maybe. But it was 2pm and we both had plans for the afternoon, so i don't see how she openly wanted sex and I rejected her. But, you could be right.

 

[RustinKohle]

Hmm, maybe. But it was 2pm and we both had plans for the afternoon, so i don't see how she openly wanted sex and I rejected her. But, you could be right.

Next time you have a coffee date like that shorten it, try to move her under an hour or so if its a daytime meet up. Its not that she openly showed signs of wanting to bang, but rather her being with you that long on a low committment get together that long shows she would've most likely gone somewhere else. Im not sure how the logistics looked, but maybe not moving her and not being sexual enough on the date caused her to rationalize you werent going to make a move so she went cold.

 

[13829938]

Ah, that makes perfect sense. Thank you.

Honestly, I figured if a girl was into me on the first date she would see me again. But I see how much in the moment it actually is.

 

[RustinKohle]

Ah, that makes perfect sense. Thank you.

Honestly, I figured if a girl was into me on the first date she would see me again. But I see how much in the moment it actually is.

The emotions of women are very fleeting, the best way to cement a womans feelings for you is to bang her and make her cum.
also consider the timeline of this date, her attraction for you was most likely lower on this date then when you tried to initiate originally. Not a whole lot you can do about that one (maybe an excuse on her part, maybe a shit test, hard to say) but proves just how much time is of the essence. Vaginas are very impatient.

 

[13829938]

The emotions of women are very fleeting, the best way to cement a womans feelings for you is to bang her and make her cum.
also consider the timeline of this date, her attraction for you was most likely lower on this date then when you tried to initiate originally. Not a whole lot you can do about that one (maybe an excuse on her part, maybe a shit test, hard to say) but proves just how much time is of the essence. Vaginas are very impatient.

Damn, that's a good point. It makes me think that my date coming up on Sunday is going to flake. She was talking to me a lot yesterday saying how stir crazy she was and wanting to get out of the house. Unfortunately I'd just caught a cold. I guess we'll see.

 

[RustinKohle]

Damn, that's a good point. It makes me think that my date coming up on Sunday is going to flake. She was talking to me a lot yesterday saying how stir crazy she was and wanting to get out of the house. Unfortunately I'd just caught a cold. I guess we'll see.

honestly that sounds like she just wants some excitement and is hoping youll be the one to deliver.

 

[13829938]

I think I can do that!

 

[foggy]

Hmm, maybe. But it was 2pm and we both had plans for the afternoon, so i don't see how she openly wanted sex and I rejected her. But, you could be right.

its not "could be" right. i am right. you just said she was touchy and enthusiastic with you. she wanted sex. girls who do not want sex dont act like that.

many times i have lost a girl because i succumbed to the logical thinking that she doesnt wanna have sex now because she's got plans later.

 

[Fuck This]

There is WAAAY too much overthinking going on here.

1) SEX will happen if you both reciprocate interest.
2) If you have logistics that will allow for sex then pursue it.
3) Don't start something you can't finish. ie: don't escalate physically if you are not going to give her memorable orgasms. Blue balls (or Blue Ovaries) are an attraction killer.
4) Be genuine in your physical attraction and appreciation. Make her feel safe to express herself physically. Don't make out in public. Do make out in private. Actions speak louder than words.

Since you have met this woman before, this is essentially a second date. You could invite her to your place for dinner and go from there.

 

[Cody Lyans]

hey man, thank you. This seems very profound and I'm trying to wrap my head around it.

Are you saying I should talk more... or demonstrate more... about my lifestyle on the date? Maybe paint a vision of where she could fit into it? Or, should I simply become a busier guy?

I'm also not sure what you mean with giving action when they are lazy on the couch vs momentum and being a catalyst. Could you explain a little further?

You don't want to fish for TRULY free time, you know, the time she is in ug boots and has her hand down her pants watching Netflix.
No, date times are best when a girl is already out and about and is juggling a few ideas of what to do. Does she go get take away, write her blog post, or head out with you.

You don't want to have the mindset that you NEED HER TO BE FREE
Busy is Good cuz she's already doing stuff. What you want to avoid is her being OVERWHELMED.
So a better way to think of it is "sure you aren't doing too much this week? You got time off yeah? OK good now I won't worry which days do you like best"

You are aiming for her to organize you in with all other stuff she plans in the week. You don't aim to compete with nothing but her staring at a wall.


Hrmm, it's like.. You are what you compete with
Low important stuff like being stupidly free, is not where you want to measure your worth
You want to measure your worth the same as a sporting event or carnival or something like that. Not necessary in her weekly chores but super cool.

In general you just want to understand that girls don't seek men, they seek a lifestyle boost. Once you appreciate that, it's easier to not view dates like her picking you. But rather she's just adding guy stuff into the motions that week

 

[13829938]

Wow, that is very, very powerful. And completely the opposite direction of what I was thinking. Actually I was just waiting to text a girl until a day she said she was free. I will take this to heart.

 

[Seppuku]

Hey I'm coming a bit late on this one, and didn't have time to read all the answers - I'm sure all very good.

I also have experimented with the BlackDragon two dates model, and want to provide my perspective.

In my opinion, it is a little bit advanced level, precisely because of the problem you report here. Namely, she might change the way she feels about the date when she wakes up the next day, then grow cold, and bye bye second date.

Here is the advanced part of it: in order to be (reasonably) sure you get the second date, you have to play a subtle balance of sexual tension. Enough tension, so that when you end the date, you leave her wanting for more. But not enough tension that you actually leave her horny and unsatisfied - because then it's like a failed escalation.

One of the key recommendations of BD is that you end up the date at most 1h30 into the date. This is one of the ways to leave her wanting for more.

The way I play it is a little different. I come up to the date with an open plan. I measure the buying temperature, quite early in the date. If it's warm, I will aim to pull the same evening. If it's lukewarm, or if there are time constraints (i.e. less than the 4 hours needed for a full conclusion), then I will go for a short date, and schedule a second date.

I've had good results with this, with about half of success on date one, and half on date 2. Very rarely did I need a third date or more. It's usually counterproductive to shoot for 3 or more dates.

Seppuku
PS. I am a regular BD reader and have utmost respect for him.

 

[13829938]

Very smart man, I like that a lot.

I realize my mistake. Honestly I have done so well with same night pulls lately that I forgot about this subtle element. I thought if I went on a date where the girl WOULD'VE slept with me, if I put it off, of course she would want to meet again. Now I realize this choice actually puts me in an entirely different game.

I really like your approach. I'm going to give it a try. Thanks!

 

[KingTurtle]

Hey I'm coming a bit late on this one, and didn't have time to read all the answers - I'm sure all very good.

I also have experimented with the BlackDragon two dates model, and want to provide my perspective.

In my opinion, it is a little bit advanced level, precisely because of the problem you report here. Namely, she might change the way she feels about the date when she wakes up the next day, then grow cold, and bye bye second date.

Here is the advanced part of it: in order to be (reasonably) sure you get the second date, you have to play a subtle balance of sexual tension. Enough tension, so that when you end the date, you leave her wanting for more. But not enough tension that you actually leave her horny and unsatisfied - because then it's like a failed escalation.

One of the key recommendations of BD is that you end up the date at most 1h30 into the date. This is one of the ways to leave her wanting for more.

The way I play it is a little different. I come up to the date with an open plan. I measure the buying temperature, quite early in the date. If it's warm, I will aim to pull the same evening. If it's lukewarm, or if there are time constraints (i.e. less than the 4 hours needed for a full conclusion), then I will go for a short date, and schedule a second date.

I've had good results with this, with about half of success on date one, and half on date 2. Very rarely did I need a third date or more. It's usually counterproductive to shoot for 3 or more dates.

Seppuku
PS. I am a regular BD reader and have utmost respect for him.

Any example of what type of dates you take women on to leave keep things open? Seems like if you just take them to dinner you could go over the 1:30 rule. Just get coffee with them and then move on to something else if it's going well?

 

[naturalmikey]

i had a date this week where girl wouldn’t come to my house after. after the date she texted me saying it was a nice time and she hoped to see me again. i didn’t respond. it’s never worth waiting for. the best way to keep a girl around is to fuck her. if you string it out she’s gonna get the idea that it’s more serious. this is my experience and opinion. i will not talk to a girl again i don’t fuck on the first date. if she can resist me on the first date the sexual chemistry isn’t strong enough for me.

 

[Seppuku]

Any example of what type of dates you take women on to leave keep things open? Seems like if you just take them to dinner you could go over the 1:30 rule. Just get coffee with them and then move on to something else if it's going well?

Regarding dinner, a restaurant date is usually a bad idea. My normal date setting is a coffee shop or a lounge bar. If it's early evening and dinner time, we just order some "bar foods". I have tons of LR here where I used a similar template. I think there is a "Tribal Elder compilation thread" in the FR board.