FU Sexually confident girl - date ends in frustrating blueballs

[Atlas IV]

So I just had a pretty annoying blue-balls incident that I want to dissect by writing it out.

Met a girl from cold approach yesterday. I was walking down the street in my neighbourhood when she gave me a massively blatant IOI from across the road - I mean she basically invited me to come talk to her with a smile and a wave.

So I went over, did the usual routine and exchanged contacts. She was a tatted up HB7, and turned out we're basically neighbors. She had a very confident vibe - even made some sexual innuendos which caught me a little off guard. I could tell from the get-go that she was an experienced girl.

We met for drinks the next night (she wanted to meet the same night but I had an event to go to).

As we started drinking, we (by we I mean she) dove straight into talking about dating and sex. I was trying to lead the conversation, but she was very talkative and forward, so I let her take the reigns a bit.

There was a lot of joking and good vibing between us, plus plenty of natural kino. She talked at one point about an ex who she bought tons of expensive stuff for, and I joked "what the hell? Why can't I get a sugar mama? That's not fair", which got a big laugh. I shared a little about my past relationships, and told her I'm not looking to jump into anything serious now (BF disqualifier). Also did the love languages routine.

She told me stories about living in Dubai, partying, getting drunk and doing stupid stuff, etc - even one night stands with random guys. I got the sense that she was a "party girl" who was perhaps trying to leave her party days behind.

After about an hour and a bit, we'd finished the beers, and I suggested we buy some more drinks from the shop and take the party to mine. She was hesitant at this, she said she was in the mood to go out and party somewhere in the city. I told her I really just feel like chilling tonight. I got the bill, and we left, but I could sense a shift in the vibe. She wasn't talkative and bouncy anymore, now she was just giving one-word answers.

We got to my place and relaxed in a bit, but I could tell she was stiffened up. She was sitting in my chair, playing on her phone. I put on some Post Malone (she has a massive tattoo of him on her leg, which is insane).

Eventually I got her to come over to the bed. I tried a bunch of stuff - massage, push-pull, freeze-out. It seemed to be working somewhat to warm her up, because at one point she came over and straddled me. I thought it was on then, but as I tried to kiss her she pulled away and said "not tonight". She was asking me again and again what I wanted to do - the typical trap of trying to get me to admit that I want to fuck her so that she could reject me.
It was like:
Her: What do you want? Just say it
Me: Well, I really want to kiss you
Her: And then?
Me: And then... take it from there and see what happens
Her: No no, I want an answer. You want to fuck me, right?

Actually, just writing this out makes me understand this better. My guess is she's had so many one night stands that she's regretted, and now she's trying to reclaim some of her dignity by rejecting a guy who wants sex on the first night.

Anyway at this point I really started to lose my temper, because honestly I'm sick of girls who play dumb mind games like this. I told her I don't want a one night stand, but I'm also a very sexually forward guy, and that I like to know soon whether I have sexual chemistry with someone.

I had already mentioned earlier that my past LTR started from a one night stand, which I thought would be enough to disarm her ASD. But the one thing she came back to multiple times was about being "easy". She said several time that she doesn't want to be an "easy girl". Reflecting on it now, I totally see that she has hang-ups about this. She's been too loose in the past, and now it's a real pain point for her.

Anyway, unfortunately this put me in such a sour mood that, after one final last-ditch caveman escalation attempt that she again resisted, I told her I'm not playing games like this and basically kicked her out. She was pissed and again reiterated like a broken record: "I'm not playing games, but I'm not an easy girl!" It wasn't gentlemanly of me, and I guess I ruined any chance of fucking her again. I later texted to apologize.

Sometimes I really can't control myself with girls and their antics though. Especially a girl who talks openly about her slutty history and sexual experiences, then tries to convince me in the bedroom that she's actually not a slut. I mean Jesus Fucking Christ.

Anyway that's all for my vent. Sorry guys, I'm usually a very positive-minded guy, but this particular experience happened to come following a string of ghosting and rejections, so it kinda hit me while I'm down. I guess I'm just at a low point right now. Game is an emotional rollercoaster though, and I'm sure I'll be hitting the highs again soon enough.

 

[POB]

Once I kicked out a girl who was boobs all out and half panties down just because she did that same "I'm a saint now" routine with me.
Drove her back to her place and never tried contact again.
After maybe five years of zero contact, she poped back up on my Facebook profile: fat, looking 15 years older and kid in arm lol.

Every guy has a threshold, don't beat yourself about it.
She just picked the wrong guy, and the worst time and place to try to be a saint.

 

[Skills]

You felt when you got angry... Should not have gotten angry and you didn't try everything i didn't see pyco... I have a post will link you later, on something i don't in this situations as well... Not home now..

 

[Skills]

Jesus can't edit

Transitions - Back to physical game: Reinforcement of NO SEXUAL act while physical/verbally escalating....

It seems that the community went through a face of verbal game, then we went through a phase of physical game, then some of the guys from nextasf brought back verbal game with the second generation stuff.... The problem is it seems that most of the guys for what i notice in the forum have...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[DoWhatWorks]

I get your frustration and I've been there (many times) but there's things you definitely could have done better to increase your odds of laying this girl. Let's dive in...

she told me stories about living in Dubai, partying, getting drunk and doing stupid stuff, etc - even one night stands with random guys. I got the sense that she was a "party girl" who was perhaps trying to leave her party days behind.

Good reading of the girl, I'm going to guess this girl is late 20's very common vibe for that range. With these girls they're "transitioning" from still wanting to have fun but having a nagging feeling that they want to settle down.

The way you lay these girls is show you're fun but willing to explore more for the right girl... I'll share examples in a sec.

As we started drinking, we (by we I mean she) dove straight into talking about dating and sex. I was trying to lead the conversation, but she was very talkative and forward, so I let her take the reigns a bit.

Just because you're talking about sex doesn't mean she's getting aroused especially with these types you want to dig further and get her to recall her favorite sexual memories and *why* there were to good. Get her to relive it not just list it off like she's remembering her grocery list.

she said she was in the mood to go out and party somewhere in the city. I told her I really just feel like chilling tonight.

Good frame here, and you got her back to yours

told her I'm not looking to jump into anything serious now (BF disqualifier)

You cut out all hope of something and that's partly why you got the resistance you got again with these girls who've been round the block you want to give hope e.g. "I enjoy being single and have a lot of fun, I'm not looking for anything more but I'm open to it if I came across someone who was refreshingly different and we had natural great chemistry"

I thought it was on then, but as I tried to kiss her she pulled away and said "not tonight". She was asking me again and again what I wanted to do - the typical trap of trying to get me to admit that I want to fuck her so that she could reject me.

A frame I learnt from a friend on this forum is you want to build up a girl's anticipation so that in her mind she wants you to escalate before you do. E.g. she's straddling you, you're vibing to post malone, you look at her eyes, look at her lips, then carry on like nothing happend. Do that enough times, let the tension build then by the time you move your head slightly to kiss her she'll jump at you. Takes a bit of practice but it's effective and dramatically reduces LMR.

Actually, just writing this out makes me understand this better. My guess is she's had so many one night stands that she's regretted, and now she's trying to reclaim some of her dignity by rejecting a guy who wants sex on the first night.

This is where I have to be harsh on you man, this is a terrible mindset, the better one is you didn't make her feel the right emotions to be the guy she wants to sleep with on that night. It's not on her, it's on you and how you made her feel.

I had already mentioned earlier that my past LTR started from a one night stand, which I thought would be enough to disarm her ASD. But the one thing she came back to multiple times was about being "easy".

But you already told her you don't want LTR so the fact your last LTR came from a ONS is irrelevant. Again with these girls (and a lot of girls in general) being the guy who has fun but is open for the right girl gives the best balance of challenge, don't have to think about it hard to lay with this guy and comfortable with the fact there's potential for more...

I gambit I use (and it's better earlier in the interaction, not as a LMR tactic) is I think "easy" is bullshit and overrated. I've known girls for decades who I'd never sleep with and girls I meet that night and it's just on, it's the compatability/vibe not about length of time and this artificial "easy" that doesn't mean anything... I find easy is just something that guys who never get girls say because they're bitter no one wants them (which subtly implies I'm wanted and get it)

Anyway at this point I really started to lose my temper,

This is unforgiveable to be honest. Do you think you're communicating attractive traits to a girl if you lose your temper because she won't have sex with you?

Girls are silly and cute - here's an example of my mindset when I documented something similar

"I'm not playing games, but I'm not an easy girl!"

Translation: Please make me feel desired and unique, not just someone you want to sleep with because I happen to have a vagina

I later texted to apologize.

Nail in the coffin, I'll be shocked if you see her again. If you're going to kick her out, stand on business don't back track lol

Anyway that's all for my vent. Sorry guys, I'm usually a very positive-minded guy, but this particular experience happened to come following a string of ghosting and rejections, so it kinda hit me while I'm down. I guess I'm just at a low point right now. Game is an emotional rollercoaster though, and I'm sure I'll be hitting the highs again soon enough.

We've all been through the ups and downs but you have to control how it comes across. It's like buying from a car salesman, the person behind on targets who's pushy and all-over you repels you. The devil-may-care winning salesman who's like hey this is a great deal take it or leave it... He'll make you think twice...

Sometimes you have to act like you're there... Or take a break, re-charge and come in better spirits but it's important you always come across as the winner who's fine either way regardless what might actually be happening.

Wrote the long message because I've found these type of responses helped me the most back in the day

Good luck man

 

[Chad Tyrone]

Anyway, unfortunately this put me in such a sour mood that, after one final last-ditch caveman escalation attempt that she again resisted, I told her I'm not playing games like this and basically kicked her out. She was pissed and again reiterated like a broken record: "I'm not playing games, but I'm not an easy girl!" It wasn't gentlemanly of me, and I guess I ruined any chance of fucking her again. I later texted to apologize.

@Atlas...seduction is all a game.It's easy to let this get to you but it shouldn't.

It's All a Game

Doesn’t happen too often, but I recently got a little annoyed at a situation with a girl I’m seeing. She wasn’t behaving as I felt she should have; she was being secretive and defensive around me, and that’s a big no-no for me generally. And that raised my hackles a bit. Then I stopped for a...

www.girlschase.com

When it comes to escalation you want to reassure them that you are still the guy and you got this.

You coming out and telling her you are not playing games doesn't reassure her.

Things Guys Do that Cause Women to Resist Sex at the Last Minute

Guys do things all the time with girls they were 99% of the way there with that cause those women to resist sex. If you know what these mistakes are, though, they're simple enough to avoid. I've been hearing a lot of "I got this girl right up to the point where we were about to have sex, then I...

www.girlschase.com

Instead, it casts doubt on the guy that she thought you were earlier and every single attractive quality she had of you fades away moving forward.

Besides ,she doesn't owe you nothing.

Nobody Owes You Nothin’

In a comment on my article “In Seduction, “You” Don’t Matter (But Her Emotions Do)”, a commenter who dubs himself ‘Enlightened’ left the following remark: “This article seems to suggest that women care more about what you can do for them and how those actions make them feel vs what they can do...

www.girlschase.com

Resistance is all in good fun for the guy that finds girls silly and cute like @DoWhatWorks says .It may not sound so for you now but once you work on adopting the mindset it will .

Besides addressing objections,I'd say most seamless seductions happen non-verbally ...which means that at no point does the guy tire of the girl's resistance that he'd come out and tell the girl to put out.

That's not seduction ...that's bargaining and you can't negotiate genuine desire.

I don't know about you but you've got guys out there that will ask a girl to give them pussy lol.

To me ,it screams silly and so low of a guy to do that.

You're far better served employing gentleman escalation than that if she keeps on resisting.

• Gentleman escalation: there's another approach to escalation though. Cody Lyans calls this 'gentleman escalation'. I use it sometimes... and from what I can tell, the men who turn around lots of failed escalations use it always (or mostly always). This escalation is slower, and comes across as a sort of gradual escalation dance... the man makes a move, then tests to see how the girl responds. If she isn't warm to it, he withdraws the move and returns to a lower level. Gradually he tests again, trying different moves, while slowly working to raise her arousal and create an ever-more intimate vibe with her. If at some point she leaves, he does not try to stop her, or only gives the lightest protest or invitation; otherwise, he does not insist, nor does he show disappointment. Instead for him it is a dance; one she's discontinuing for now, but which he knows he will continue with her later.
  
  Here's the link to that article:
  
  
  

  Tactics Tuesdays: Recovering from Botched Escalations to Sex

  When you try to have sex with a girl, but fail, often that's it: you won't get another shot with her. Yet all is not lost with her – you still have options. Failing in your escalation to sex is, often, a kiss of death. You were inches away from intimacy with a girl... and then you didn't reach...

  www.girlschase.com
  
  
  Another thing to note is that you should never ever apologize for your sexuality,if you are doing things right.You always want to reinforce that frame of being a sexual guy throughout the seduction.
  
  So yeah ,you can chalk all this up as a lesson learned .
  
  Believe me ...for every girl you muck things up with ,you get even more experience that will go a long way in helping you in the near future. Each botched seduction brings you even more closer to things working out for you fluidly next time, provided you analyze your interactions.
  
  Don't let it get you down and don't beat yourself up over it .
  
  You're still breathing after all and have the chance to go out there again and do it well next time with another girl if you so decide.
  
  Except that this time you won't have a poor past precedent and will be starting things on a fresh plate .
  
  Go get them
  
  Chad Tyrone.
  
  
  
  
  

 

[Atlas IV]

@DoWhatWorks,

Thanks for the brutal honesty man, I really needed that.

Actually, looking back over this report I feel disgusted that I would even write something so bitter and vulgar. I was going to edit it, but decided I'll keep it there as a reminder that I still have some serious work to do on myself. I rarely get angry at a girl for LMR, especially if it comes from a place of nervousness or inexperience. For some reason, this one tipped me over the edge - probably because she'd talked so much about sex and been so flirtatious that I assumed this one was in the bag (I'd even taken half a Cialis lol), and I couldn't process what to do with the resistance. Reflecting on it now, the resistance was because of me, not her. I didn't push the right buttons to make her feel the right feelings.

Just because you're talking about sex doesn't mean she's getting aroused especially with these types you want to dig further and get her to recall her favorite sexual memories and *why* there were to good. Get her to relive it not just list it off like she's remembering her grocery list.

Yes, very good point here. I automatically assumed that "conversation about sex = good thing", but it's only good if you use it as an opportunity to explore her sexual desires and fantasies. In this case, it was more like a cathartic offload for her, focused on the negative experiences she's had with guys. I was listening and reacting, but she was very much in the drivers seat of the conversation. I should have used this as a chance to deep dive on what "makes her tick" sexually rather than just letting her go through these negative experiences (even though it was light-hearted).

I did ask her what her love language was (which surprisingly she had never heard of), and I explained it but she didn't seem to get overly engaged by the topic - though eventually I came back to it when she told me these stories about giving lots of expensive gifts to her ex, I said "Yeah, your love language is definitely giving", which she laughed at, but she never asked me back or seemed interested. I probably should have fractionated and then switched to another sexual prizing gambit at that point to find something that hooks her.

This is where I have to be harsh on you man, this is a terrible mindset, the better one is you didn't make her feel the right emotions to be the guy she wants to sleep with on that night. It's not on her, it's on you and how you made her feel.

100% man.

I've been getting sloppy with game recently, and it's showing. I've also been messing around a lot with OLD recently, and I think it's making me lazy and bitter because those girls are often just straightforward hookups who don't require much game.

I know I can be better than this - with cold approach I've done some great seductions before with playful vibes, well-timed escalation and strategic use of gambits. I need to go back to being that sort of guy and treating this as what it is - a GAME, and not let myself get flustered and frustrated when I don't get what I want (which wouldn't have been an issue if I'd removed the expectation of sex).

I gambit I use (and it's better earlier in the interaction, not as a LMR tactic) is I think "easy" is bullshit and overrated. I've known girls for decades who I'd never sleep with and girls I meet that night and it's just on, it's the compatability/vibe not about length of time and this artificial "easy" that doesn't mean anything... I find easy is just something that guys who never get girls say because they're bitter no one wants them (which subtly implies I'm wanted and get it)

This is a good gambit, and actually one of the sexual prizing gambits I normally run. I skipped the sexual prizing with this girl because I assumed she was in the bag already. Very naive mistake.

Nail in the coffin, I'll be shocked if you see her again. If you're going to kick her out, stand on business don't back track lol

Here was the texting:

Me:
Hey, sorry I lost my temper. I should have been more of a gentleman to you
I think the alcohol made me moody
It was nice meeting you

Her:
It's ok
I understand

Me:
Also I never thought you're "easy", I'm just a very direct, sexually forward guy
In my experience, the best relationships start out sexual, so that's the way I roll
And obviously I feel a spark of attraction there between us
but if it was too much for you, I apologize

No response, obviously. Looking back on it, this was like me trying to be apologetic and unapologetic at the same time, which is just confusing and probably comes off as arrogant and insensitive to her.
I know I can do better than this...

We've all been through the ups and downs but you have to control how it comes across. It's like buying from a car salesman, the person behind on targets who's pushy and all-over you repels you. The devil-may-care winning salesman who's like hey this is a great deal take it or leave it... He'll make you think twice...

Sometimes you have to act like you're there... Or take a break, re-charge and come in better spirits but it's important you always come across as the winner who's fine either way regardless what might actually be happening.

I appreciate this man, you've put things into perspective me. I need to focus on the things I can control (my game), not the things I can't (the girl). A lot of lessons learned here - chiefly that I never want to let myself get angry with a girl like this again. I gotta channel the playful kid in me, not lose my temper like a spoilt brat who didn't get what he wanted. I think this starts with focusing on making the girl feel like I'm a guy she actually wants to have sex with, rather than just thinking of it all as "overcoming resistance".

 

[DoWhatWorks]

I appreciate this man, you've put things into perspective me. I need to focus on the things I can control (my game), not the things I can't (the girl). A lot of lessons learned here - chiefly that I never want to let myself get angry with a girl like this again. I gotta channel the playful kid in me, not lose my temper like a spoilt brat who didn't get what he wanted. I think this starts with focusing on making the girl feel like I'm a guy she actually wants to have sex with, rather than just thinking of it all as "overcoming resistance".

Happy to help man, with this attitude, I'm confident it will all "click" for you soon enough

 

[Jan]

Actually, just writing this out makes me understand this better. My guess is she's had so many one night stands that she's regretted, and now she's trying to reclaim some of her dignity by rejecting a guy who wants sex on the first night.

You've got this almost right. Indeed, she is trying to build up her self-esteem, but she is not trying to do this by rejecting you. She is trying to do this by finding a guy who would show that she values her enough to spend more time with her before dicking her.

Look, the fact that she did ons' in the past doesn't mean that she HAS TO do them until end of her life. If you make this assumption you are actually robbing her of agency to change her life. Whether she will succeed in doing this or not, it's a completely different story, but everyone has right to make a try.

In other words, her past with ons doesn't give you right to demand ons today. And it's TOTALLY NOT ABOUT YOU. You are just a guy who she met after she had made this decision. If you had met her in her earlier days, and run the process like you did, most likely you would have banged her. But you met her in a different stage of her life, and you've got to you accept this.

Your non-acceptance of her decision and your angry reaction devalued her even more. She saw that you see her as an easy girl, and you even demanded pussy from her, which communicated to her that you really see her as easy girl.

In my opinion, the solution to this situation was to accept her decision. If you played it cool, showed her that not every guy sees her as an easy girl, helped her raise her self-esteem, she would have seen you in a very different light, and maybe even she would have fucked you that same night. Because you would have been different, more valuable than others.

It seems to me that you have your seduction process in place, but you are too rigid with it. If you don't want to make it more flexible (in this case, you could have just taken it easy, accept her decision, help her RAISE her self-esteem, show her that she is not an easy girl for every guy, and seal the deal on the 2nd or 3rd date), you need to improve your screening. This girl was socially open but she wasn't dtf. So if you want to stay rigid with your process, you have to screen better for horny girls. But you can also be more accomodating for this type of situations, but not getting angry when your process doesn't work, and calibrate it to the girl.

 

[Jan]

Her: What do you want? Just say it
Me: Well, I really want to kiss you
Her: And then?
Me: And then... take it from there and see what happens
Her: No no, I want an answer. You want to fuck me, right?

Hey man, look at this convo. You claim that you really disliked her playing games, but who was playing games here? She asked you for an honest answer and you gave her:

Me: "Well, I really want to kiss you" - oh, really, you only wanted to kiss her?
Me: "And then... take it from there and see what happens" - game, game, game

Why do you expect her not to play game, if you do it yourself? You should have just told her honestly, 'Yeah baby, you are hot, I really wanna fuck you." Honesty like this doesn't always work, but in this case I think it would have worked better than your game. I did say these exact words when a woman demanded a straight answer, and it worked for me.

Honesty in this case would have helped you with her self-esteem problem too ("I'm not an easy girl."). When people are honest with us, it communicates that they value our intelligence and maturity. On the other hand, when people tell us bullshit lies (and obviously she had read your game easily), it devalued her, because your lines communicated to her that you think she is not smart enough to read through your bullshit.

 

[Atlas IV]

In my opinion, the solution to this situation was to accept her decision. If you played it cool, showed her that not every guy sees her as an easy girl, helped her raise her self-esteem, she would have seen you in a very different light, and maybe even she would have fucked you that same night. Because you would have been different, more valuable than others.

Yep, you are absolutely right and this is usually my go-to response. If a girl doesn't want to fuck, I tell her "that's cool we don't have to, I only want to do this if you're comfortable."

I threw out this mindset with this girl because I was so damn convinced she was DTF that I couldn't accept the resistance. This L is totally on me.

Why do you expect her not to play game, if you do it yourself? You should have just told her honestly, 'Yeah baby, you are hot, I really wanna fuck you." Honesty like this doesn't always work, but in this case I think it would have worked better than your game. I did say these exact words when a woman demanded a straight answer, and it worked for me.

100%. My thinking process at the time was "this girl wants me to actually say the words 'I want to have sex with you' just so that she can say 'no, not this time' and feel validated at rejecting a guy's advances" (which I still think is probably what she was going to do). But the right frame to take with this girl would have been "yes, I absolutely want to have amazing sex with you, but if you're not ready that's totally cool by me". Since she was so direct and no-bullshit, she would have appreciated that from me.

Messing up sucks, but now I'm super clear-eyed about where I went wrong. Definitely going to remember and learn from this experience going forward.