FR++ She felt she didn't want to hurt me by sleeping with me...

[ChrisXKiss]

At least this got all the way home, but still frustrating it didn't close... Long story short: Daygame approach to model looking girl that I later discovered is a model indeed, took her for a drink, then to my place, we kissed, but she gave some interesting objections I couldn't handle so she left without intimacy. Let's get to it:

The meeting

I met her inside the main train station, around 7pm. In fact I was walking underground in the area with the stores and saw her from behind just at the entrance of a clothing store. She had just gotten inside the place and was looking around. She looked tall and elegantly dressed which I liked, so I simply went inside the store and told her I was just walking by saw her in and she looked really sweet and stylish so I wanted to come and talk to her. She took it really positively with a big smile. I also asked if she is married or in very serious relationship, and she said no, so I joked playfully saying it's good noone is gonna come punch me in the face. We exchanged names and where we are from, and then I asked her what she is up to. She was free after meeting some friends and was planning to go home, I told her I met some friends as well and was free now, so I proposed we do something together, like a drink.

She felt a bit surprised by the fast request, but was quiet enthusiastic and easy to comply. I also asked her where she lives and she told me the place where I live as well. So I told her: "Ok let's take the train together and have a drink there". She felt just a bit hesitant so I asked if she is busy buying something in the store, but she said she was just looking around, but really wanted to pee. I jokingly said then that I was planning to let her pee as well, and just invited her to come with me. She complied, and was following a little behind me as we were walking, which I considered a good thing.

We arrived at the platform and took the train, I took the lead there as well and chose some sits for us. During all this she started asking me more questions, I was leaving some pauses, because I felt she was already a bit invested and it seemed to work. She asked me what I have done for studies, I had her guess and she did correctly, so then she asked me to explain her what I do.

At the same time I asked her what she is doing. She told me she studied something way easier than me, she considered my physics studies pretty hard, and I generally tease girls regarding that saying we are the worst match. She said she did media communication but now she took over the family business of an Asian Store. Had some fun with it telling her so she is the boss now, and then we came back into what I was doing. She asked me to say it like in a dummie, and I responded jokingly that it was exactly what I was planning. She was laughing quite a lot and responding very positively to my teases.

Instant Date

We arrived at our station, and I proposed an open air place for drinks next to it. She agreed and I talked a bit about my specialisation. Shortly we got to the place and ordered drinks, she in fact swiftly paid for both our drinks at the counter, and I also took the lead towards the place to sit where she sat opposite to me. We started talking more, as I was finishing talking about my studies I asked her about her dreams and what she is really into.

That's when she told me that although she runs the business now, it is fine but it is not really her dream, and she loves modelling which she does by the side. She told me she really enjoys presenting herself and getting into the different roles, whether to present some make up or some clothes, and she is really introverted by nature and doesn't enjoy being the center of attention. I had a big smile during all this because I feel something similar when acting. She asked me about my hobbies and told her how I am acting and I understand how she feels, because I also enjoy getting into roles and getting the appreciation in the end is something but I mostly enjoying not getting the applause, but knowing that I made them have some form of experience. She said she doesn't really feel she is giving much with her modelling, and I joked about how useless and unimportant it is, to which she laughed again.

She also discussed how she really enjoys modelling in the city we are because people care more, while in Milan where she went for a while everyone was treating her like an object, and she was living with other models together and it was a strange environment. I asked her whether they were friends, she said no, and I told her that this was exactly the experience a friend of mine had in Milan, when I went to meet her and she told me she feels completely alone, because the other girls are not really close to her. Then she went on about the experience there and how she felt, and asked me to talk more about the theatre group.

I explained a bit how things work with the rehearsals preparations and everything, told her it's like catwalk that you have to do it a lot to be automatic and then if a mistake happens you save it, like you hopefully try not to fall when catwalking. I asked her also whether she has travelled through all this and if she likes it. She told me that yes she has quite a bit, liked Miami a lot and has been a lot to Asia, because of her roots. She asked me back, and I said I also enjoy travelling, it lets you explore, experience new cultures, be adventurous, and open-minded. I even said I hope she is as well and she said yes. She asked if I have something planned, I said no, because I am also looking what to do in my life right now, but I like being spontaneous anyway. I also asked her what she likes taking as a memory from the trips, she didn't know what to answer, and I said I should just show her my souvenirs at home, trying to see a pull.

She then asked if I travel solo, I told her I love it, because it can be very relaxing to be alone and enjoy yourself and at the same time you can always connect with new people and have adventures. She said she would love that as well, but generally all her friends jump together with her when she wants to go somewhere.

At that moment I asked her how her friends see her. She said like the most indecisive person ever, and I said it's a red flag, and jokingly that I am leaving, picking up the coat for a second, and then she said she is hopelessly romantic.

I told her that's interesting and to expand on it, and she said she always watches these romantic movies and wants to live the dream, and when her roomate's boyfriend sent her flowers from Costa Rica she ended up crying. I asked whether that's something she also expects in her relationships, and she said no it's fine, but she would appreciate it. I teased her telling her that she could go to the flower shop and just send flowers to her address.

She then asked what my friends would say for me. I said that they would say I am quite calm and chill and pretty supportive. In the sense that I am always there for them without really feeling it and then they appreciate it and I don't even realise I have helped that much. And she said that this is the most beautiful thing. I also said I am fairly independent and authentic, I love expressing my self openly and clearly and living life by the moment, because that is the only thing we have. And that's why i came up to talk to her, because I would be lying to myself if I didn't. She agreed and said she also loves enjoying the moment, and for example wants to be working out not to have the perfect body or butt for the summer, but the euphoric feeling after the exercise. I jokingly said I cannot see her butt now sitting but I guess it's gonna be alright. I also asked if she plans more or goes with the flow, and she said that in her family everything was organised regarding what she would do so lately she is enjoying living her life enjoying it and going with the flow.

At that moment I said I really love that, and asked her how her schedule is for later, she said she is basically free and just wanted to have some food later. I also asked her if she likes music. She said, yeah, but she is not really playing any instrument if that's what I mean and asked me back. I then told her I really feel like playing some guitar for her and my place is close. She said yeah sure, I asked whether she is very hungry now, she said no, so I just said let's go and started walking with her towards my place.

I asked her during the walk if she is passionate about the things she is doing and she said that she goes a lot with her feelings and her friends are scared of her because of that. She then talked a bit about her experience sky diving, and I told her a bit about an interesting experience I had scuba diving. By the time I finished we were in front of my building and I naturally opened and brought her in and up in my apartment.

My place

I invited her in, let her take her shoes off, and gave her a glass of water before going to the toilet. When I got back she was looking at some art on the wall and told her that it was my mothers as the ones on the other wall. Then she went looking at a piece I have made, nothing too special in my opinion, but I told her and she said that it is very good, I am talented, and it could be a part of Art Basel.

We sat by the couch and I took the guitar as I promised her, played two three songs, and she felt entranced. Now I don't know if I do play that well, but she was praising me too much after each time, and at some moment she said she felt really touched and there was something very serene about it. I left the guitar on the side, telling her if I keep going I will be playing forever, because after I start it's difficult to stop.

She was sitting a bit far, but honestly after the date at my place three days ago, I wasn't going to miss a kiss or escalation due to that. I was simply thinking fast of a way to make it a bit smooth. She sneezed randomly, said she is allergic to grass, and I jokingly said while coming a bit closer, that I should take away the plants from my room. Then she said that it's fine and she has taken the pill for the allergy, so I asked her to look at me to check, and she was saying that no it is good, but I said no I really have to see if the pill worked, and went in for the kiss.

And we did kiss, I stopped it first after just few seconds leaned back, and we kinda both agreed that the pill worked. I told her that I loved how she does have the passion during the kiss, but at the same time something, very... how to say it, model like, making a gesture like she is very elegant and proper. We kissed again some more, she wasn't really letting me go towards her neck that much though, she asked if she is still model like, I jokingly said kinda yes.

Then she got a bit more serious and she said that she wants to be clear, and asked me what I am looking for. I asked back, and she said I go first. I asked to come and lie a bit closer to me by the pillow on the couch, and she did and we talked in a closer position half lying down, while I was caressing her leg.

I told her I am not looking for something specific right now, I enjoy meeting people and connecting, and if something more eventually comes, I am open to it, but I am not going after it and right now enjoying the moment. Then she said that she had a break up recently and she is still trying to heal her broken heart so she doesn't want something more serious right now, and the thing is she has tried getting together with guys that were also telling her that they are not looking for something really serious, but in the end she is hurting them, because after a while they do expect more.

I told her I understand and I am not really expecting anything more. She asked how it has been with my previous relationships and broken hearts, and I asked jokingly if she means mine or the girls's hearts, and then told her that I have had connections that were beautiful and you go on, and now I am in a phase of exploring, figuring out what kind of people I like and what kind of relationships I enjoy, so I am not really going after something specific and don't expect something, I only know what I feel now, my desire and I show it.

Around then she started getting a bit more distant, she told me she is overthinking again, I told her it is not the time for that and went for another kiss, but she quickly pushed me away. I stayed there holding her, asking what is in her mind, and she said that after this relationship she had she is not ready for that, I told her I understand, she told me I don't, I told her I am not expecting anything from her, she said I am expecting the kisses and the sex, and I said I am simply showing my desire. I told her I am authentic, and as long as she is around here at my place, I will simply express this feeling I have towards her. I was holding her hand telling her that I brought her here and wanted to continue the connection because of how we felt together during the whole time after we met.

She kept saying that she didn't feel ready and it is just so fast after just few hours of meeting and not feeling like in the mood for it now rebuffing my kisses. I told her she is free to go and as long as she stays I will keep desiring her. She stood up, I held her again from the waist and asked what is troubling her, she said that she is not at the place to do that, and she tried something similar with other guys and it didn't end well. I again told her I fully understand, and I am not looking for something more while unlocking the door, and going for a final escalation attempt. She again said no, and that she wants to go, and I let her. She left saying she is really sorry, and I told her not to be and wished her the best.

Conclusion

That's it more or less, literally writing it exactly after it happened to remember as much as possible. For the good things, one is the fact that I kept leading the whole thing from the beginning and all the way towards my place. I had doubts at certain moments regarding whether it would be possible, because although she was quite enthusiastic and compliant, she was also quite attractive, it's not like I pull models home everyday, so it was good to see that it can just work in a fairly straightforward way even for girls that are literally paid to be beautiful.

Another thing is that I at least went for it in my place. After the last response I got for my other field report, I realised I am probably not assertive enough and shouldn't expect extremely clear escalation windows when we are back at my place. She was sitting fairly far from me, but took my first kisses quite well.

What I want to look at is what happened after that. I know I missed something, but I don't know exactly what I could have done differently, so any recommendation is welcome. I have a feeling by what she told me, that apart from her wanting to heal from her ex, she was really concerned with guys asking for more than casual stuff from her at this point. The funny thing is that although she was a model and physically attractive, she wasn't my personal type that much, so I wasn't even thinking about her seriously. I really meant that I am not looking for something particular or expecting something, but of course I am open because you never know how life goes and how you may connect with someone.

So I am wondering how I could have framed the whole thing differently. In the end I ended up chasing quite a bit, but I had the resolve to not let her leave without constantly going for the escalation until the very end. But in general I felt it was a good experience, I have to check my vibe though, because I feel I give off a more boyfriendy vibe, even when I pull fast. I cannot explain why else she would be so concerned with me desiring more and getting heartbroken, when I was literally telling her I expect nothing and care about the now. Unless all this was just a way of hers to express another underlying concern that I did not realise.

One thing I have in mind is bringing up sexual topics, preferences and desires earlier to have all these things communicated before getting to my place. The reason I skipped it is because I sometimes feel that when I go for sex talk it starts feeling I am angling for and expecting sex by the time I invite her home. So unless she is really into it and excited already, she ends up not coming home at all. On the other hand, I have managed to bring a bunch of girls home without setting sexual frames through sex talk, but it always leads to LMR, and I have not been very successful with it.

So I am contemplating a bit whether it is better to be more openly sexual during the interaction, risking some backlash of hers earlier, so that when I invite her home she is already down for sex. Or it's better to not get very sexually explicit, invite her home with a simple excuse and escalate then, risking some quite strong LMR. As types of seductions I enjoy both, so it's more about the effectiveness. My LMR handling can use some serious improvement for sure. And I also feel that these two approaches could work better for different types of girls, but have not been able to pinpoint which exactly till now.

 

[Higher]

One thing I have in mind is bringing up sexual topics, preferences and desires earlier to have all these things communicated before getting to my place.

Yeah good idea.

Im far from being an expert on this, but i noticed that talking about sex, connection, relationships and the importance of comfort asap (when ure still out together) and in a cool, laid-back way (by making smooth transitions and fractionating) really kills LMR later at home.

I think its because she wants to know what the deal is, how ur mind works on all these topics, and also has to be sure that ure not gonna switch from cool guy to pushy asshole if for whatever reason she feels the need to resist a bit.

If she agrees with u on these topics and seems comfortable, its usually a green in my experience so far.

Btw man, great leadership skills! The way u moved her around and invited her home in the end seemed pretty smooth.

 

[DarkJedi]

@ChrisXKiss,
Great report man. You lead the whole way through, while being very in tune with her emotions. She is a romantic, and you fit her vibe perfectly.

Around then she started getting a bit more distant, she told me she is overthinking again, I told her it is not the time for that and went for another kiss, but she quickly pushed me away. I stayed there holding her, asking what is in her mind, and she said that after this relationship she had she is not ready for that, I told her I understand, she told me I don't, I told her I am not expecting anything from her, she said I am expecting the kisses and the sex, and I said I am simply showing my desire. I told her I am authentic, and as long as she is around here at my place, I will simply express this feeling I have towards her. I was holding her hand telling her that I brought her here and wanted to continue the connection because of how we felt together during the whole time after we met.

She kept saying that she didn't feel ready and it is just so fast after just few hours of meeting and not feeling like in the mood for it now rebuffing my kisses. I told her she is free to go and as long as she stays I will keep desiring her. She stood up, I held her again from the waist and asked what is troubling her, she said that she is not at the place to do that, and she tried something similar with other guys and it didn't end well. I again told her I fully understand, and I am not looking for something more while unlocking the door, and going for a final escalation attempt. She again said no, and that she wants to go, and I let her. She left saying she is really sorry, and I told her not to be and wished her the best.

This is where you pushed too hard I think. Would have been good to hang back and chill. You're saying you understand her and then pushing to get a kiss. She even said that to you: "no you don't". Probably made her feel you're only thinking of your desire and don't care about her state.

Best to genuinely ask her what she's thinking about at that point, reframe whatever she says in a positive light, make her feel good about her decision to get more intimate with you, instead of steamrolling with physical escalation. Address her objections, chill, escalate.

I understand that from your previous FR feedback you tried to be more assertive, which is good! More experiences will help you calibrate when to chill and when to push.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Yeah good idea.

Im far from being an expert on this, but i noticed that talking about sex, connection, relationships and the importance of comfort asap (when ure still out together) and in a cool, laid-back way (by making smooth transitions and fractionating) really kills LMR later at home.

I think its because she wants to know what the deal is, how ur mind works on all these topics, and also has to be sure that ure not gonna switch from cool guy to pushy asshole if for whatever reason she feels the need to resist a bit.

If she agrees with u on these topics and seems comfortable, its usually a green in my experience so far.

Btw man, great leadership skills! The way u moved her around and invited her home in the end seemed pretty smooth.

Yes I agree with what you discuss. Maybe I should go for talking about sexual topics in a cool laid back way every time, no matter the woman or the situation to set the right frames for sure. I think I have underestimated a bit how not obvious it is to be a cool relaxed dude regarding sex. Women have so many bad experiences with forceful guys or clingy guys that they just expect you to be another one.

I should probably focus on the transitions and fractionations regarding sex talk, how I deliver it, so that it doesn't feel like it is the only thing I care about, and I am just expecting sex with her by talking about it.

And thanks! Sometimes I am not sure if I am doing something really well or if the girl is just very compliant from the get go. With her I kept leading and she naturally followed, other times it doesn't work as straightforward though. I guess it is a numbers game anyway to find someone that will be into your approach enough and in the right mood.

Great report man. You lead the whole way through, while being very in tune with her emotions. She is a romantic, and you fit her vibe perfectly.

Thanks! And interesting that you mention that, because I didn't really think consciously a lot about matching her romantic vibe. For example my guitar playing was more of a useful excuse to take her home, rather than a very calibrated move because she was romantic. Maybe I subconsciously went that way because of the romantic vibe she gave me though. If it's very on sexually already I don't usually just take out the guitar to play.

Anyway it's good to keep in mind that calibrating your approach and moves to what the other person gives you is important. I guess sometimes we feel the energy and naturally do it, but it's useful to be conscious about it.

This is where you pushed too hard I think. Would have been good to hang back and chill. You're saying you understand her and then pushing to get a kiss. She even said that to you: "no you don't". Probably made her feel you're only thinking of your desire and don't care about her state.

Best to genuinely ask her what she's thinking about at that point, reframe whatever she says in a positive light, make her feel good about her decision to get more intimate with you, instead of steamrolling with physical escalation. Address her objections, chill, escalate.

I understand that from your previous FR feedback you tried to be more assertive, which is good! More experiences will help you calibrate when to chill and when to push.

Yeah I realised that. I simply felt that if I chilled back and let her talk she would probably just rationalise even more why not to sleep with me and I felt I should try to short circuit that process by making her more aroused.

But it was indeed a lot about not wanting to let her go like that after not pushing it with the previous report, so it's good I'm seeing the extremes to realise how to calibrate.

Because at that point in the end even if I let her leave and told her it was fine, by still escalating continuously it felt that I really was hoping for something and wasn't that much outcome independent.

So relaxing back a bit is a good thing to do while showing you understand her, and after reframing her objections and making her comfortable, it's the time to escalate again.

 

[Will_V]

At least this got all the way home, but still frustrating it didn't close... Long story short: Daygame approach to model looking girl that I later discovered is a model indeed, took her for a drink, then to my place, we kissed, but she gave some interesting objections I couldn't handle so she left without intimacy. Let's get to it:

The meeting

I met her inside the main train station, around 7pm. In fact I was walking underground in the area with the stores and saw her from behind just at the entrance of a clothing store. She had just gotten inside the place and was looking around. She looked tall and elegantly dressed which I liked, so I simply went inside the store and told her I was just walking by saw her in and she looked really sweet and stylish so I wanted to come and talk to her. She took it really positively with a big smile. I also asked if she is married or in very serious relationship, and she said no, so I joked playfully saying it's good noone is gonna come punch me in the face. We exchanged names and where we are from, and then I asked her what she is up to. She was free after meeting some friends and was planning to go home, I told her I met some friends as well and was free now, so I proposed we do something together, like a drink.

She felt a bit surprised by the fast request, but was quiet enthusiastic and easy to comply. I also asked her where she lives and she told me the place where I live as well. So I told her: "Ok let's take the train together and have a drink there". She felt just a bit hesitant so I asked if she is busy buying something in the store, but she said she was just looking around, but really wanted to pee. I jokingly said then that I was planning to let her pee as well, and just invited her to come with me. She complied, and was following a little behind me as we were walking, which I considered a good thing.

We arrived at the platform and took the train, I took the lead there as well and chose some sits for us. During all this she started asking me more questions, I was leaving some pauses, because I felt she was already a bit invested and it seemed to work. She asked me what I have done for studies, I had her guess and she did correctly, so then she asked me to explain her what I do.

At the same time I asked her what she is doing. She told me she studied something way easier than me, she considered my physics studies pretty hard, and I generally tease girls regarding that saying we are the worst match. She said she did media communication but now she took over the family business of an Asian Store. Had some fun with it telling her so she is the boss now, and then we came back into what I was doing. She asked me to say it like in a dummie, and I responded jokingly that it was exactly what I was planning. She was laughing quite a lot and responding very positively to my teases.

Instant Date

We arrived at our station, and I proposed an open air place for drinks next to it. She agreed and I talked a bit about my specialisation. Shortly we got to the place and ordered drinks, she in fact swiftly paid for both our drinks at the counter, and I also took the lead towards the place to sit where she sat opposite to me. We started talking more, as I was finishing talking about my studies I asked her about her dreams and what she is really into.

That's when she told me that although she runs the business now, it is fine but it is not really her dream, and she loves modelling which she does by the side. She told me she really enjoys presenting herself and getting into the different roles, whether to present some make up or some clothes, and she is really introverted by nature and doesn't enjoy being the center of attention. I had a big smile during all this because I feel something similar when acting. She asked me about my hobbies and told her how I am acting and I understand how she feels, because I also enjoy getting into roles and getting the appreciation in the end is something but I mostly enjoying not getting the applause, but knowing that I made them have some form of experience. She said she doesn't really feel she is giving much with her modelling, and I joked about how useless and unimportant it is, to which she laughed again.

She also discussed how she really enjoys modelling in the city we are because people care more, while in Milan where she went for a while everyone was treating her like an object, and she was living with other models together and it was a strange environment. I asked her whether they were friends, she said no, and I told her that this was exactly the experience a friend of mine had in Milan, when I went to meet her and she told me she feels completely alone, because the other girls are not really close to her. Then she went on about the experience there and how she felt, and asked me to talk more about the theatre group.

I explained a bit how things work with the rehearsals preparations and everything, told her it's like catwalk that you have to do it a lot to be automatic and then if a mistake happens you save it, like you hopefully try not to fall when catwalking. I asked her also whether she has travelled through all this and if she likes it. She told me that yes she has quite a bit, liked Miami a lot and has been a lot to Asia, because of her roots. She asked me back, and I said I also enjoy travelling, it lets you explore, experience new cultures, be adventurous, and open-minded. I even said I hope she is as well and she said yes. She asked if I have something planned, I said no, because I am also looking what to do in my life right now, but I like being spontaneous anyway. I also asked her what she likes taking as a memory from the trips, she didn't know what to answer, and I said I should just show her my souvenirs at home, trying to see a pull.

She then asked if I travel solo, I told her I love it, because it can be very relaxing to be alone and enjoy yourself and at the same time you can always connect with new people and have adventures. She said she would love that as well, but generally all her friends jump together with her when she wants to go somewhere.

At that moment I asked her how her friends see her. She said like the most indecisive person ever, and I said it's a red flag, and jokingly that I am leaving, picking up the coat for a second, and then she said she is hopelessly romantic.

I told her that's interesting and to expand on it, and she said she always watches these romantic movies and wants to live the dream, and when her roomate's boyfriend sent her flowers from Costa Rica she ended up crying. I asked whether that's something she also expects in her relationships, and she said no it's fine, but she would appreciate it. I teased her telling her that she could go to the flower shop and just send flowers to her address.

She then asked what my friends would say for me. I said that they would say I am quite calm and chill and pretty supportive. In the sense that I am always there for them without really feeling it and then they appreciate it and I don't even realise I have helped that much. And she said that this is the most beautiful thing. I also said I am fairly independent and authentic, I love expressing my self openly and clearly and living life by the moment, because that is the only thing we have. And that's why i came up to talk to her, because I would be lying to myself if I didn't. She agreed and said she also loves enjoying the moment, and for example wants to be working out not to have the perfect body or butt for the summer, but the euphoric feeling after the exercise. I jokingly said I cannot see her butt now sitting but I guess it's gonna be alright. I also asked if she plans more or goes with the flow, and she said that in her family everything was organised regarding what she would do so lately she is enjoying living her life enjoying it and going with the flow.

At that moment I said I really love that, and asked her how her schedule is for later, she said she is basically free and just wanted to have some food later. I also asked her if she likes music. She said, yeah, but she is not really playing any instrument if that's what I mean and asked me back. I then told her I really feel like playing some guitar for her and my place is close. She said yeah sure, I asked whether she is very hungry now, she said no, so I just said let's go and started walking with her towards my place.

I asked her during the walk if she is passionate about the things she is doing and she said that she goes a lot with her feelings and her friends are scared of her because of that. She then talked a bit about her experience sky diving, and I told her a bit about an interesting experience I had scuba diving. By the time I finished we were in front of my building and I naturally opened and brought her in and up in my apartment.

My place

I invited her in, let her take her shoes off, and gave her a glass of water before going to the toilet. When I got back she was looking at some art on the wall and told her that it was my mothers as the ones on the other wall. Then she went looking at a piece I have made, nothing too special in my opinion, but I told her and she said that it is very good, I am talented, and it could be a part of Art Basel.

We sat by the couch and I took the guitar as I promised her, played two three songs, and she felt entranced. Now I don't know if I do play that well, but she was praising me too much after each time, and at some moment she said she felt really touched and there was something very serene about it. I left the guitar on the side, telling her if I keep going I will be playing forever, because after I start it's difficult to stop.

She was sitting a bit far, but honestly after the date at my place three days ago, I wasn't going to miss a kiss or escalation due to that. I was simply thinking fast of a way to make it a bit smooth. She sneezed randomly, said she is allergic to grass, and I jokingly said while coming a bit closer, that I should take away the plants from my room. Then she said that it's fine and she has taken the pill for the allergy, so I asked her to look at me to check, and she was saying that no it is good, but I said no I really have to see if the pill worked, and went in for the kiss.

And we did kiss, I stopped it first after just few seconds leaned back, and we kinda both agreed that the pill worked. I told her that I loved how she does have the passion during the kiss, but at the same time something, very... how to say it, model like, making a gesture like she is very elegant and proper. We kissed again some more, she wasn't really letting me go towards her neck that much though, she asked if she is still model like, I jokingly said kinda yes.

Then she got a bit more serious and she said that she wants to be clear, and asked me what I am looking for. I asked back, and she said I go first. I asked to come and lie a bit closer to me by the pillow on the couch, and she did and we talked in a closer position half lying down, while I was caressing her leg.

I told her I am not looking for something specific right now, I enjoy meeting people and connecting, and if something more eventually comes, I am open to it, but I am not going after it and right now enjoying the moment. Then she said that she had a break up recently and she is still trying to heal her broken heart so she doesn't want something more serious right now, and the thing is she has tried getting together with guys that were also telling her that they are not looking for something really serious, but in the end she is hurting them, because after a while they do expect more.

I told her I understand and I am not really expecting anything more. She asked how it has been with my previous relationships and broken hearts, and I asked jokingly if she means mine or the girls's hearts, and then told her that I have had connections that were beautiful and you go on, and now I am in a phase of exploring, figuring out what kind of people I like and what kind of relationships I enjoy, so I am not really going after something specific and don't expect something, I only know what I feel now, my desire and I show it.

Around then she started getting a bit more distant, she told me she is overthinking again, I told her it is not the time for that and went for another kiss, but she quickly pushed me away. I stayed there holding her, asking what is in her mind, and she said that after this relationship she had she is not ready for that, I told her I understand, she told me I don't, I told her I am not expecting anything from her, she said I am expecting the kisses and the sex, and I said I am simply showing my desire. I told her I am authentic, and as long as she is around here at my place, I will simply express this feeling I have towards her. I was holding her hand telling her that I brought her here and wanted to continue the connection because of how we felt together during the whole time after we met.

She kept saying that she didn't feel ready and it is just so fast after just few hours of meeting and not feeling like in the mood for it now rebuffing my kisses. I told her she is free to go and as long as she stays I will keep desiring her. She stood up, I held her again from the waist and asked what is troubling her, she said that she is not at the place to do that, and she tried something similar with other guys and it didn't end well. I again told her I fully understand, and I am not looking for something more while unlocking the door, and going for a final escalation attempt. She again said no, and that she wants to go, and I let her. She left saying she is really sorry, and I told her not to be and wished her the best.

Conclusion

That's it more or less, literally writing it exactly after it happened to remember as much as possible. For the good things, one is the fact that I kept leading the whole thing from the beginning and all the way towards my place. I had doubts at certain moments regarding whether it would be possible, because although she was quite enthusiastic and compliant, she was also quite attractive, it's not like I pull models home everyday, so it was good to see that it can just work in a fairly straightforward way even for girls that are literally paid to be beautiful.

Another thing is that I at least went for it in my place. After the last response I got for my other field report, I realised I am probably not assertive enough and shouldn't expect extremely clear escalation windows when we are back at my place. She was sitting fairly far from me, but took my first kisses quite well.

What I want to look at is what happened after that. I know I missed something, but I don't know exactly what I could have done differently, so any recommendation is welcome. I have a feeling by what she told me, that apart from her wanting to heal from her ex, she was really concerned with guys asking for more than casual stuff from her at this point. The funny thing is that although she was a model and physically attractive, she wasn't my personal type that much, so I wasn't even thinking about her seriously. I really meant that I am not looking for something particular or expecting something, but of course I am open because you never know how life goes and how you may connect with someone.

So I am wondering how I could have framed the whole thing differently. In the end I ended up chasing quite a bit, but I had the resolve to not let her leave without constantly going for the escalation until the very end. But in general I felt it was a good experience, I have to check my vibe though, because I feel I give off a more boyfriendy vibe, even when I pull fast. I cannot explain why else she would be so concerned with me desiring more and getting heartbroken, when I was literally telling her I expect nothing and care about the now. Unless all this was just a way of hers to express another underlying concern that I did not realise.

One thing I have in mind is bringing up sexual topics, preferences and desires earlier to have all these things communicated before getting to my place. The reason I skipped it is because I sometimes feel that when I go for sex talk it starts feeling I am angling for and expecting sex by the time I invite her home. So unless she is really into it and excited already, she ends up not coming home at all. On the other hand, I have managed to bring a bunch of girls home without setting sexual frames through sex talk, but it always leads to LMR, and I have not been very successful with it.

So I am contemplating a bit whether it is better to be more openly sexual during the interaction, risking some backlash of hers earlier, so that when I invite her home she is already down for sex. Or it's better to not get very sexually explicit, invite her home with a simple excuse and escalate then, risking some quite strong LMR. As types of seductions I enjoy both, so it's more about the effectiveness. My LMR handling can use some serious improvement for sure. And I also feel that these two approaches could work better for different types of girls, but have not been able to pinpoint which exactly till now.

I think the responses you've got so far are correct, and yeah you are doing a good job of bringing these girls back to your place.

The issue here imo is lack of connection and lack of pacing.

The crucial point was when she said that these guys she was getting with were ending up hurt because they wanted more. Translated from womanspeak, it means that she was ending up hurt because she wanted more. And when you said you understand, and you weren't expecting anything, that's when she got distant and things never recovered. Because you probably came across way too casual at that point thinking that's what she wanted, when it was somewhat of the opposite.

The way out of this is not either appearing more casual or appearing more serious, but realizing that she needed to see the possibility of a short term relationship as a wonderful, enhancing experience. And that's when the lack of sexual framing came to roost. If you'd painted the right picture throughout the whole date then it would have been easy for you and her to refer back to it at the point of sex, and her comfort level would have been much better.

Girls like this - introverted and sensitive - need pacing and comfort, and to be shown how her pleasure doesn't need to just come from a continuation of something, but a quality of it.

 

[TomInHo]

@ChrisXKiss You did a good job with emotionally connecting with the girl and leading but I didn't see you set a lot of sexual frames during the interaction

Try and get into the habit of also discussing thing like dating, relationships, male/female dynamics and sex to get an idea of where her mind is at sexually

For this girl her main concern was you getting needy post sex. And even though you logically addressed it, the emotional sub-communication said otherwise

This means you need to calibrate and come off a little bit more fuckboyish but with a heart. Not a total nice guy either

An example would be here

Then she said that she had a break up recently and she is still trying to heal her broken heart so she doesn't want something more serious right now, and the thing is she has tried getting together with guys that were also telling her that they are not looking for something really serious, but in the end she is hurting them, because after a while they do expect more.

So right here she is telling you she is not looking for a boyfriend or even a consistent relationship. Probably just wants to get fucked and fucked hard

I would have joked around and put the frame back on her "Oooo look at you, You're such a player. I should have known with all the seductive looks you were giving me earlier"

Then change subject to something social and then do some sexual prizing, because right now she's not looking for a deep emotional connection

My goal from here would be framing the interaction that sex with will be great and care free

I told her I understand and I am not really expecting anything more. She asked how it has been with my previous relationships and broken hearts, and I asked jokingly if she means mine or the girls's hearts, and then told her that I have had connections that were beautiful and you go on, and now I am in a phase of exploring, figuring out what kind of people I like and what kind of relationships I enjoy, so I am not really going after something specific and don't expect something, I only know what I feel now, my desire and I show it.

But you're still implying you may want more later. At this point in her life she is not sure she is even open to that

Around then she started getting a bit more distant, she told me she is overthinking again, I told her it is not the time for that and went for another kiss, but she quickly pushed me away. I stayed there holding her, asking what is in her mind, and she said that after this relationship she had she is not ready for that, I told her I understand, she told me I don't, I told her I am not expecting anything from her, she said I am expecting the kisses and the sex, and I said I am simply showing my desire. I told her I am authentic, and as long as she is around here at my place, I will simply express this feeling I have towards her. I was holding her hand telling her that I brought her here and wanted to continue the connection because of how we felt together during the whole time after we met.

Yeah, expressing your authentic feelings wasn't the move here

She kept saying that she didn't feel ready and it is just so fast after just few hours of meeting and not feeling like in the mood for it now rebuffing my kisses. I told her she is free to go and as long as she stays I will keep desiring her.

I don't like this. You're pretty much saying she can keep resisting you will keep chasing her. Needed to pull all the way back and make her wonder if her non compliance could be losing you

She stood up, I held her again from the waist and asked what is troubling her, she said that she is not at the place to do that, and she tried something similar with other guys and it didn't end well. I again told her I fully understand, and I am not looking for something more while unlocking the door, and going for a final escalation attempt. She again said no, and that she wants to go, and I let her. She left saying she is really sorry, and I told her not to be and wished her the best.

She left because she felt you were chasing and not really listening

Conclusion

That's it more or less, literally writing it exactly after it happened to remember as much as possible. For the good things, one is the fact that I kept leading the whole thing from the beginning and all the way towards my place. I had doubts at certain moments regarding whether it would be possible, because although she was quite enthusiastic and compliant, she was also quite attractive, it's not like I pull models home everyday, so it was good to see that it can just work in a fairly straightforward way even for girls that are literally paid to be beautiful.

Another thing is that I at least went for it in my place. After the last response I got for my other field report, I realised I am probably not assertive enough and shouldn't expect extremely clear escalation windows when we are back at my place. She was sitting fairly far from me, but took my first kisses quite well.

What I want to look at is what happened after that. I know I missed something, but I don't know exactly what I could have done differently, so any recommendation is welcome. I have a feeling by what she told me, that apart from her wanting to heal from her ex, she was really concerned with guys asking for more than casual stuff from her at this point. The funny thing is that although she was a model and physically attractive, she wasn't my personal type that much, so I wasn't even thinking about her seriously. I really meant that I am not looking for something particular or expecting something, but of course I am open because you never know how life goes and how you may connect with someone.

So I am wondering how I could have framed the whole thing differently. In the end I ended up chasing quite a bit, but I had the resolve to not let her leave without constantly going for the escalation until the very end. But in general I felt it was a good experience, I have to check my vibe though, because I feel I give off a more boyfriendy vibe, even when I pull fast. I cannot explain why else she would be so concerned with me desiring more and getting heartbroken, when I was literally telling her I expect nothing and care about the now. Unless all this was just a way of hers to express another underlying concern that I did not realise.

One thing I have in mind is bringing up sexual topics, preferences and desires earlier to have all these things communicated before getting to my place. The reason I skipped it is because I sometimes feel that when I go for sex talk it starts feeling I am angling for and expecting sex by the time I invite her home. So unless she is really into it and excited already, she ends up not coming home at all. On the other hand, I have managed to bring a bunch of girls home without setting sexual frames through sex talk, but it always leads to LMR, and I have not been very successful with it.

So I am contemplating a bit whether it is better to be more openly sexual during the interaction, risking some backlash of hers earlier, so that when I invite her home she is already down for sex. Or it's better to not get very sexually explicit, invite her home with a simple excuse and escalate then, risking some quite strong LMR. As types of seductions I enjoy both, so it's more about the effectiveness. My LMR handling can use some serious improvement for sure. And I also feel that these two approaches could work better for different types of girls, but have not been able to pinpoint which exactly till now.

I think you can avoid LMR in the future by bringing up more sexual topics before you pull and address and concerns she may have before escalating hard

All good though, because it's part of the learning process and I feel you're going to make a big breakthrough in your game pretty soon if you keep doing what you're doing with the minor tweaks to sexual framing I suggested earlier

The crucial point was when she said that these guys she was getting with were ending up hurt because they wanted more. Translated from womanspeak, it means that she was ending up hurt because she wanted more.

Nah, I don't agree here. He should take it as face value

I have some female clients that are single and believe men, men in general are needy AF. They will day they want nothing serious but then after they fuck start guilt tripping the girl or pushing for a relationship

She wants a good time without the emotional investment

And when you said you understand, and you weren't expecting anything, that's when she got distant and things never recovered. Because you probably came across way too casual at that point thinking that's what she wanted, when it was somewhat of the opposite.

Nah. She pulled back because I said it in a way that was too similar to the other guys

The way out of this is not either appearing more casual or appearing more serious, but realizing that she needed to see the possibility of a short term relationship as a wonderful, enhancing experience.

I agree. Needs to be more ambiguous but his frame prior to him pulling was on the more "serious" side of the equation hence her hesitation. She doesn't believe what he is saying because he was acting like a BF before and now being sexual seems incongruent with his frame

And that's when the lack of sexual framing came to roost. If you'd painted the right picture throughout the whole date then it would have been easy for you and her to refer back to it at the point of sex, and her comfort level would have been much better.

Agreed

Girls like this - introverted and sensitive - need pacing and comfort, and to be shown how her pleasure doesn't need to just come from a continuation of something, but a quality of it.

Yeah, she need more sexual comfort and the feeling of if she had sex with him she had nothing to lose

 

[Skills]

there is NOTHING, you did wrong, other than, there is a way to deal with the post break up girls, that is a bit different....:

I have a post of this that i linked at the end, i been with plenty of girls in this situations, is a bit different how you go about the seduction with them, they are emotionally vulnerable, hurt and conflicted... even if they say they are not..... In this case you go the seduction topics is break ups the dynamics and how to deal with them (i know what you thinking wtf) as she felt understood, knows you are an authority on break up dynamics, and she put guard down, and you disqualify yourself "right now you are not ready you need time to heal" etc... you bang.... Done plenty of these girls, some of my favorites girls.... Remember the HOTTEST WOMEN, you will find in the break up window stages, since THEY ARE TAKEN OR HIGH DEMAND.... Follow exactly what i say in this post:

how to seduce emotionally vulnerable girls

I have been able to seduce a lot of emotionally vulnerable girls.... There was one in particular that i was like wowow, how i did this (lay report is in nextasf, tldr i made out i told boyfriend cause I thought she snitch on me, but she did not (bf i kind of knew, if i find it will post here...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[ChrisXKiss]

The crucial point was when she said that these guys she was getting with were ending up hurt because they wanted more. Translated from womanspeak, it means that she was ending up hurt because she wanted more. And when you said you understand, and you weren't expecting anything, that's when she got distant and things never recovered. Because you probably came across way too casual at that point thinking that's what she wanted, when it was somewhat of the opposite.

This is interesting. I mean, to me it felt normal that guys would want more from her. She is an attractive model that people would want to tie down in a relationship, so I really felt that her issue is that she can't find someone to be chill and enjoy the moment without expectations.

That said, by the way she reacted after I expressed I am not expecting anything more, what you describe makes sense. Because she did become more distant and I couldn't understand what her problem was, since I was clearly saying to her I don't want anything more so it's fine, I am not gonna get hurt and we can enjoy ourselves.

Do you have any recommendation on how to understand what women mean when they say something opposite like this? Because I was really trying to communicate with her to help her feel at ease, but if what she communicates is not what she feels, I am not sure how to recognise it and take the right action.

The way out of this is not either appearing more casual or appearing more serious, but realizing that she needed to see the possibility of a short term relationship as a wonderful, enhancing experience. And that's when the lack of sexual framing came to roost. If you'd painted the right picture throughout the whole date then it would have been easy for you and her to refer back to it at the point of sex, and her comfort level would have been much better.

Yes I agree with this, it should have been built better earlier, so I will keep that in mind for the future. I think it felt like I was trying to tell her what she wanted to hear, when we discussed all that back at my place. Like I was doing it with some agenda to have her eventually sleep with me. So if she knew my general views way before that, she would have been more comfortable that this is how I am, and I am not just trying to say things in the moment to get a lay.

I was going for the frame of a short term relationship being a wonderful experience in fact. But I guess it felt reactive to what she was expressing, and the more she was resisting, the more I was painting all this as something casual, because I thought she was scared I would want to commit. And in the end this ended up making her feel I only cared for getting the sex and not about her really.

Girls like this - introverted and sensitive - need pacing and comfort, and to be shown how her pleasure doesn't need to just come from a continuation of something, but a quality of it.

It's funny, because I do believe this myself. I should just get better at expressing and communicating it.

 

[TomInHo]

This is interesting. I mean, to me it felt normal that guys would want more from her. She is an attractive model that people would want to tie down in a relationship, so I really felt that her issue is that she can't find someone to be chill and enjoy the moment without expectations.

Your assumption is correct.

Guys get super needy with very attractive girls and try and lock them down fast. I've even seen that here with some seducers. They lay a hot chick and immediately start fantasizing and laying frames they want to lock her down post sex

It is a real concern

That said, by the way she reacted after I expressed I am not expecting anything more, what you describe makes sense. Because she did become more distant and I couldn't understand what her problem was, since I was clearly saying to her I don't want anything more so it's fine, I am not gonna get hurt and we can enjoy ourselves.

She pulled away because she doesn't believe you

You were not acting like a casual/ambiguous guy prior and now she feels you're full of shit

Do you have any recommendation on how to understand what women mean when they say something opposite like this? Because I was really trying to communicate with her to help her feel at ease, but if what she communicates is not what she feels, I am not sure how to recognise it and take the right action.

Problem was you started having this sexual conversation TOO LATE in the interaction. It takes time for some frames to set

If you set a sexual frame earlier then behave more congruent with that frame she would trust it's the real you more

Yes I agree with this, it should have been built better earlier, so I will keep that in mind for the future. I think it felt like I was trying to tell her what she wanted to hear, when we discussed all that back at my place

Yeah, she thinks you're full of shit so pulls back to avoid potential emotional confusion later

Like I was doing it with some agenda to have her eventually sleep with me. So if she knew my general views way before that, she would have been more comfortable that this is how I am, and I am not just trying to say things in the moment to get a lay.

Yes

I was going for the frame of a short term relationship being a wonderful experience in fact. But I guess it felt reactive to what she was expressing, and the more she was resisting, the more I was painting all this as something casual, because I thought she was scared I would want to commit. And in the end this ended up making her feel I only cared for getting the sex and not about her really.

It's funny, because I do believe this myself. I should just get better at expressing and communicating it.

Bingo

 

[Will_V]

@TomInHo I think you're looking at her as more experienced than she really is. Girls don't go smoothly from post breakup to casual sex without having gone through a bunch of experiences.

Asian girls often live pretty closeted lives regulated by their parents, and she she comes across that way to me - working in a business she's not really interested in, introverted and not liking being center of attention, looking for something romantic 'out there'. Doesn't sound like she's really gone through a rebel phase.

There are other signs - the way she was very compliant right away, the way she laughed along with his ribbing without throwing much back, the way she suddenly went distant and had to leave.

That's my reading, could be off but I doubt it.

I think we agree on the main point which is that it's best to start framing the sexual experience and getting her warmed up early.

 

[Will_V]

This is interesting. I mean, to me it felt normal that guys would want more from her. She is an attractive model that people would want to tie down in a relationship, so I really felt that her issue is that she can't find someone to be chill and enjoy the moment without expectations.

That's not exactly logical, most guys who see a hot model don't think 'I want a relationship' they think 'I want to bang'.

No doubt a lot of guys also want her as a girlfriend without really being attracted to anything else about her. I would wager that's what happened in her last relationship.

This puts her in a difficult position of having something guys really want but not knowing how to manage getting what she wants - or even developing her set of natural experiences to lead her to knowing what she wants. Because she has all this attention and pressure and it results in some bad experiences, and that can make a girl very guarded.

So it seems to me she has this concept in her mind that guys either want to bang or want to tie her down for their own ends, and she isn't really sure what else is available out there though something inside her yearns for it. She wants to feel a romance.

That said, by the way she reacted after I expressed I am not expecting anything more, what you describe makes sense. Because she did become more distant and I couldn't understand what her problem was, since I was clearly saying to her I don't want anything more so it's fine, I am not gonna get hurt and we can enjoy ourselves.

Do you have any recommendation on how to understand what women mean when they say something opposite like this? Because I was really trying to communicate with her to help her feel at ease, but if what she communicates is not what she feels, I am not sure how to recognise it and take the right action.

You get an intuition after a while, but the main thing is congruence - she's a girl who just got heartbroken, who do you think's more likely to be feeling more needy and vulnerable, her or the guy? And as I mentioned she doesn't come across as some veteran who just wants to bang a line of dudes without any strings attached.

Yes I agree with this, it should have been built better earlier, so I will keep that in mind for the future. I think it felt like I was trying to tell her what she wanted to hear, when we discussed all that back at my place. Like I was doing it with some agenda to have her eventually sleep with me. So if she knew my general views way before that, she would have been more comfortable that this is how I am, and I am not just trying to say things in the moment to get a lay.

Exactly right, if you start painting the picture when you're sitting on your bed together it's almost impossible to not come across as a last-minute salesman.

 

[Skills]

@TomInHo I think you're looking at her as more experienced than she really is. Girls don't go smoothly from post breakup to casual sex without having gone through a bunch of experiences.

^ correct! they have to be treated different...

Asian girls often live pretty closeted lives regulated by their parents, and she she comes across that way to me - working in a business she's not really interested in, introverted and not liking being center of attention, looking for something romantic 'out there'. Doesn't sound like she's really gone through a rebel phase.

There are other signs - the way she was very compliant right away, the way she laughed along with his ribbing without throwing much back, the way she suddenly went distant and had to leave.

That's my reading, could be off but I doubt it.

I think we agree on the main point which is that it's best to start framing the sexual experience and getting her warmed up early.

^ you are not off, this is how it is, i mention that in the post...

 

[ChrisXKiss]

You did a good job with emotionally connecting with the girl and leading but I didn't see you set a lot of sexual frames during the interaction

Try and get into the habit of also discussing thing like dating, relationships, male/female dynamics and sex to get an idea of where her mind is at sexually

Thanks, yeah I should just go for it more in every interaction. Was kinda thinking lately that maybe it would work better to bring them home without many sexual frames, because they wouldn't have sex in mind, and it would just be us two chilling together, feeling safer for them to agree during the pull. But it does create a lot of issues when I try to sexualise later at my place.

For this girl her main concern was you getting needy post sex. And even though you logically addressed it, the emotional sub-communication said otherwise

This means you need to calibrate and come off a little bit more fuckboyish but with a heart. Not a total nice guy either

I totally agree. I even felt it in fact. I knew that what I was telling her was true, but I was realising that something was lacking to make her believe me.

I think I started to skip communicating a lot about sex during the dates, exactly to not come too much as a fuckboy and scare girls off, thinking I just want to pump and dump them. But I feel I am giving a more proper boyfriend vibe by default, so if I inject some calibrated sexual frames I will get fuckboyish enough to be an exciting lover.

So right here she is telling you she is not looking for a boyfriend or even a consistent relationship. Probably just wants to get fucked and fucked hard

I would have joked around and put the frame back on her "Oooo look at you, You're such a player. I should have known with all the seductive looks you were giving me earlier"

Then change subject to something social and then do some sexual prizing, because right now she's not looking for a deep emotional connection

My goal from here would be framing the interaction that sex with will be great and care free

I see your points, probably felt that without having set all the previous sexual frames going straight to this would be quite incongruent.

But you're still implying you may want more later. At this point in her life she is not sure she is even open to that

Yes I realised this was a bad move after I said it. That's generally how I view things in life, and normally how I present myself to women. But here with the whole vibe I was giving off during the date, it felt I was just hoping to get a girlfriend and was simply trying to conceal it with my words, but failing at it.

I guess it's better saying stuff like that when you come off as quite sexual already to keep a balance, and not when she already feels you may be wanting more.

I don't like this. You're pretty much saying she can keep resisting you will keep chasing her. Needed to pull all the way back and make her wonder if her non compliance could be losing you

Yeah was kinda trying some awkward form of persistence, after having left 2-3 women from my place without persisting enough. I wanted to make her feel my desire somehow, but it was chasing too much. Pulling back for a bit would have been better indeed. Would you recommend going very cold here, or just stopping to escalate and keep connecting?

She left because she felt you were chasing and not really listening

I really was at that moment.

I think you can avoid LMR in the future by bringing up more sexual topics before you pull and address and concerns she may have before escalating hard

All good though, because it's part of the learning process and I feel you're going to make a big breakthrough in your game pretty soon if you keep doing what you're doing with the minor tweaks to sexual framing I suggested earlier

Yeah, I'll get to it.

I agree. Needs to be more ambiguous but his frame prior to him pulling was on the more "serious" side of the equation hence her hesitation. She doesn't believe what he is saying because he was acting like a BF before and now being sexual seems incongruent with his frame

Yeah, I do feel I give off more BF vibes by default as I said, so some sexual framing can help girls not put me in that category straight away.

Problem was you started having this sexual conversation TOO LATE in the interaction. It takes time for some frames to set

If you set a sexual frame earlier then behave more congruent with that frame she would trust it's the real you more

Agree, exactly how it felt.

She pulled away because she doesn't believe you

You were not acting like a casual/ambiguous guy prior and now she feels you're full of shit

Yeah, that's how it felt to me as well, that I did some kind of sudden 180 turn. Although for me it wasn't, she couldn't really know since I didn't communicate it properly earlier.

 

[Rakehell]

Seemed like an issue of timing Imo. Kissing should facilitate the vibe not take away from it, and it seems like she was pulling back before she got you with the “gotcha” type trick questions of what you were looking for.

First kiss, vibe was neutral little to no change, second kiss she starts taking away from the vibe, third kiss attempt and she crushes the vibe altogether.

That being said maybe the kissing felt too romantic/non sexual of an action for her, and or too big of a jump in compliance for what she was expecting/desiring.

To me this speaks to focusing too much on connecting without vibing on a sexual level nonverbally throughout. The kiss wasn’t interpreted as a sexual action but facilitated the more romantic vibes you all had going on.

Romantic vibes that she was not ready for and questioned you about.

Not to say you have to talk about sex, but you should be nonverbally at some point.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Asian girls often live pretty closeted lives regulated by their parents

She literally told me that. That her parents had everything planned for her her whole life, and now at last she wants to be a bit more free and
live her life. From what she told me, that she would really like to go solo traveling herself for example, I also got the feeling that she has not had a rebel face, but would surely love to have some spontaneous excitement in her life right now. Still with the hint of romance though.

So it seems to me she has this concept in her mind that guys either want to bang or want to tie her down for their own ends, and she isn't really sure what else is available out there though something inside her yearns for it. She wants to feel a romance.

So this does feel spot on about what she would crave, something exciting and in the middle of too serious relationship and meaningless one night stand. Again funny that this is exactly what I would enjoy as well, but did not communicate it properly.

I also feel that this could be a good way to approach similar "paid to be beautiful" girls in general. Showing her an exciting experience without any pressure for commitment, to differentiate yourself both from the guys that just want to bang and those that just want to tie them down.

You get an intuition after a while, but the main thing is congruence - she's a girl who just got heartbroken, who do you think's more likely to be feeling more needy and vulnerable, her or the guy? And as I mentioned she doesn't come across as some veteran who just wants to bang a line of dudes without any strings attached.

You have a point, maybe I got carried away thinking that yeah she is a pretty beautiful girl, of course she can have all these guys after her and is just afraid of hurting them. But yeah, it doesn't work like that, she is not some super confident vixen that plays with men all the time. She surely wants to feel valued and experience something more herself, she is hopelessly romantic after all.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

there is NOTHING, you did wrong, other than, there is a way to deal with the post break up girls, that is a bit different....:

I have a post of this that i linked at the end, i been with plenty of girls in this situations, is a bit different how you go about the seduction with them, they are emotionally vulnerable, hurt and conflicted... even if they say they are not..... In this case you go the seduction topics is break ups the dynamics and how to deal with them (i know what you thinking wtf) as she felt understood, knows you are an authority on break up dynamics, and she put guard down, and you disqualify yourself "right now you are not ready you need time to heal" etc... you bang.... Done plenty of these girls, some of my favorites girls.... Remember the HOTTEST WOMEN, you will find in the break up window stages, since THEY ARE TAKEN OR HIGH DEMAND.... Follow exactly what i say in this post:

how to seduce emotionally vulnerable girls

I have been able to seduce a lot of emotionally vulnerable girls.... There was one in particular that i was like wowow, how i did this (lay report is in nextasf, tldr i made out i told boyfriend cause I thought she snitch on me, but she did not (bf i kind of knew, if i find it will post here...

www.skilledseducer.com

I see what you mean, makes a lot of sense thanks! After she told me about her previous relationship, she even asked me about my previous relationships and heartbreaks and what I have experienced, and I did feel that it was a crucial moment to make her feel comfortable and that I understand her.

The bad thing is I have not had any relationships or heartbreaks really, so I always struggle when I have to talk about these topics. Is there a specific way to frame past relationships that brings the best results? Since I have not had the experience I want to manufacture something to be saying, but not sure exactly what.

Also I guess since this was a cold approach and I pulled her for a same day lay, I do all these steps compressed. Since you talk about slow gaming, would you even suggest that I should fully let her go from my place after she told me all that? I mean, when you tell her she is not ready and needs time to heal, and then you let her go, does she just stay and opens escalation windows?

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Seemed like an issue of timing Imo. Kissing should facilitate the vibe not take away from it, and it seems like she was pulling back before she got you with the “gotcha” type trick questions of what you were looking for.

First kiss, vibe was neutral little to no change, second kiss she starts taking away from the vibe, third kiss attempt and she crushes the vibe altogether.

Yes I can see that, she was never extremely enthusiastic during the kisses, even if she responded positively and kissed back in the beginning.

That being said maybe the kissing felt too romantic/non sexual of an action for her, and or too big of a jump in compliance for what she was expecting/desiring

Not sure though what else I could do apart from kissing, I guess it is my go to move when I want to escalate things back at my place. You mean I should have tried to touch her more sexually first, come closer to her for a bit, or something like that?

To me this speaks to focusing too much on connecting without vibing on a sexual level nonverbally throughout. The kiss wasn’t interpreted as a sexual action but facilitated the more romantic vibes you all had going on.

Romantic vibes that she was not ready for and questioned you about.

Not to say you have to talk about sex, but you should be nonverbally at some point.

I do get what you mean. I suppose I always felt that kissing is clearly sexual, because that's how I see it, as the initiation of the sexual connection physically, kinda why I have this nickname as well.

But now that you mention it, it makes sense. If she felt that it was all too romantic, non sexual and serious until then, my kissing attempt probably felt as too much boyfriendy as well.

In general the thing is that I don't touch a lot, maybe one touch at her back here and at her leg there, probably why I also struggle in nighttime environments like clubs. So my sexualisation of a connection has been mostly coming from talking about sex or from a general sexual vibe during the interaction, eye contact, way of talking etc.

This second part has been something I am lacking a lot lately though, especially when seated down with a girl I have troubles getting into a sexual state without us being in close contact or her having a clearly sexual vibe. I may be hard the moment we meet, but then I soon get limp and not feel very sexual while we talk. I was better at it in the past, so I think I have to check my lifestyle a bit, and how to treat my body to have a contained sexual energy emanating.

So until this works out better, communicating about sex is something I should do more for sure to clearly set sexual frames. And it has worked for me in the past, so I know I can, I simply need to get into it and check how to calibrate in different scenarios.

 

[Rakehell]

Not sure though what else I could do apart from kissing, I guess it is my go to move when I want to escalate things back at my place. You mean I should have tried to touch her more sexually first, come closer to her for a bit, or something like that?

Yes, doing things beforehand that move away from connection in the sense of knowing eachother intellectually, toward a sexual connection.

This doesn’t start at home but should be in the background of most of your interaction.

In a way its a byproduct of the sticking point you mentioned about not persisting at home. But the lack of persistence is a limb, and not the head of the problem. The head of the problem is a lack of a sexual dialogue overall.

(Dialogue meaning the conversation you’re having underneath the conversation you are having)

Think of someone who’s being really passive aggressive, they may smile and be polite, but underneath that you can feel the animosity.

Don’t you feel as though you’d be more comfortable with initiating sex, if you felt as though she was ready for you to?

You say you play guitar so think of it like the words of a song versus the backtrack. Certain chords effect the overall “feel” of the song. It can change how you interpret the words. Depending on the “music”, the song changes meaning regardless of the lyrics. It impacts whether or not its something you want to dance to, cry to, go to the gym to, or fuck to.

Do you feel like the vibe or “music” of you guy’s dynamic was congruent with escalating toward sex? Or would it have been more congruent/felt more natural to enjoy eachothers conversation?

This second part has been something I am lacking a lot lately though, especially when seated down with a girl I have troubles getting into a sexual state without us being in close contact or her having a clearly sexual vibe. I may be hard the moment we meet, but then I soon get limp and not feel very sexual while we talk. I was better at it in the past, so I think I have to check my lifestyle a bit, and how to treat my body to have a contained sexual energy emanating.

There’s a ton of ways but maybe a shift in focus overall. If your goal is to have sex with the girl you are talking to, then keep sex as the overall focus, everything else should be to get you toward that goal.

You don’t have to touch her necessarily but it’d probably help if you aren’t able to facilitate the vibe you’re going for in other ways.

Look into physical game, 60years of challenge, sexual tension, it’s 90% nonverbal stuff. It’s what I personally feel like you’re missing. Touch is powerful but if the vibe isn’t there it can be misinterpreted also.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

In a way its a byproduct of the sticking point you mentioned about not persisting at home. But the lack of persistence is a limb, and not the head of the problem. The head of the problem is a lack of a sexual dialogue overall.

Yes I see what you mean. One of the reasons of me not persisting was because it was feeling incongruent to. There was no sexual sub communication that would have had it make sense, and my persistence would end up looking as me suddenly chasing for sex, as it happened during this situation.

Do you feel like the vibe or “music” of you guy’s dynamic was congruent with escalating toward sex? Or would it have been more congruent/felt more natural to enjoy eachothers conversation?

For sure the second, and this is in fact what I have noticed in a lot of my latest interactions. It just feels like the natural thing would be to have a relaxed friendly conversation, and I want to escalate, I know I have to if I want sex, but it just feels off. That's why at some points I am like, well we are here, we have been chatting for a while, I can either go for the kiss at last or let it stay like that and nothing will happen. So I do go for the kiss, and they do respond well sometimes, but the general feeling is what you described.

Don’t you feel as though you’d be more comfortable with initiating sex, if you felt as though she was ready for you to?

And yes totally. I think I have been overestimating my sexual vibe, meaning that I bring the girl all the way home two hours after we met, so of course I am a sexual lover guy. Or at least that's how I thought it was coming off to the girl. But just the leading all the way home doesn't bring her in the right emotional state for sex.

There’s a ton of ways but maybe a shift in focus overall. If your goal is to have sex with the girl you are talking to, then keep sex as the overall focus, everything else should be to get you toward that goal.

Yeah I think I am doing that, maybe too much in fact, to the point that during the conversation I am thinking about how to bridge topics and smoothly transition between them to elicit her values in order to connect better so that she can get comfortable being intimate with me. I mean although I don't always talk specifically about sex, during the whole discussion I am thinking how to structure it so that she can be more ready for sex without explicitly saying it. But the thing is if the sexual sub communication is lacking, not talking about sex directly makes it all just be a friendly connection.

You don’t have to touch her necessarily but it’d probably help if you aren’t able to facilitate the vibe you’re going for in other ways.

Look into physical game, 60years of challenge, sexual tension, it’s 90% nonverbal stuff. It’s what I personally feel like you’re missing. Touch is powerful but if the vibe isn’t there it can be misinterpreted also.

I agree that the touch can help, I guess I started staying away from it due to your last point, I was going for touching and it was feeling off during the interaction. So I decided to simply create tension without touching and sexualise by talking about it. And I have made it work, to the point that I was giving just slight touches during the date, and at home we would go into kissing and getting sexual very fast. There was a nervous tension of us both knowing what this whole thing was about, but me basically not making any particularly sexual move until we were back home. So I feel I should just be making more clear one way or the other what this whole interaction is about, and things will be taking their way.

And thanks, I'll check the nonverbal stuff again! I like them a lot in fact, especially sexual tension, but I do feel I have to get better at physical game as well.

 

[Tryst]

All great till the kiss. I would say, however, don't linger on the modelling conversation too long - it pumps her value.

how to say it, model like, making a gesture like she is very elegant and proper.

Problems begin. This should have been a tease. This is kind of awkward and niceguy imo, you're kind of setting of a frame of her being something elegant, delicate, untouchable... something apart from and above you. You're actually creating distance between you with this sort of comment. I find it difficult to word, but maybe you get me?

When you want to be making a comment that brings you closer together, that lets you bask in the pleasant moment and connection, the feeling of deepening intimacy, you've said something that sets her apart from you, there's a sense of division. As if she's a passionless marble sculpture, so perfect, but so far away.

she asked if she is still model like, I jokingly said kinda yes.

Immediate punishment for your mistake. Frame controlled. Now you're discussing her resistance, and it's going downhill. I've had vibes like this. It's never good. Don't discuss the seduction. Let it just happen. One time I had a girl asking me stuff like what I thought would happen on the date, did I think xx would happen, and you're just falling into her frame. She's qualifying you, she's deciding, you're chasing, nothing good.

Also, never ever talk about her resistance. The resistance is only as real as you two agree it is. If it isn't verbalised, the second her state changes, it never existed. Poof! She just forgets.

she wants to be clear, and asked me what I am looking for. I asked back, and she said I go first.

Frame control continues. You got hoop theoried. Nothing good is happening here. Your asking back is reactive, and showing how much you care, it's a very see through attempt to frame control back, and she doesn't bite. Gotta say something cocky and funny here, laugh it off, change her state. I would fail too.

I asked to come and lie a bit closer to me by the pillow on the couch, and she did and we talked in a closer position half lying down, while I was caressing her leg.

Translation: "Please build a vibe with me I really want to build a vibe with you please please please"
Not the right time.

I told her I am not looking for something specific right now [...] I only know what I feel now, my desire and I show it

I have a feeling that just even having this conversation is bad for you, but maybe other people know the right verbals to make it work. If I had any conversation like this I'd be losing.

Around then she started getting a bit more distant, she told me she is overthinking again, I told her it is not the time for that and went for another kiss, but she quickly pushed me away. I stayed there holding her, asking what is in her mind

She is pulling away from you, and you chase her, desperately try to keep the vibe. It's needy. You force her to push you away.

When a girl pulls away, you pull away a little too.

I told her I am not expecting anything from her

You say that, but you keep pushing when she's signalling you not to!

I told her I am authentic, and as long as she is around here at my place, I will simply express this feeling I have towards her.

Translation: "As long as you are here at my place, I'm going to make you uncomfortable."

I told her she is free to go and as long as she stays I will keep desiring her. She stood up, I held her again from the waist and asked what is troubling her, she said that she is not at the place to do that, and she tried something similar with other guys and it didn't end well. I again told her I fully understand, and I am not looking for something more while unlocking the door, and going for a final escalation attempt.

And iiiiiiiiiiIIIii... will always loooooooOOOOooove youuuuuuuuuu...

- Tryst

Pale as the moon, as changeable, as scarred,
Serene, for reasons she'll never betray;
Or maybe she glitters more like a star:
Exploding, burning, bright - so far away!