Should You Communicate That You Are More Than "Just A Fuck and Dump" Type Of Guy

[Teevster]

Moderator edit: Skills and I discussed in this thread whether or not (and eventually "when") one should communicate that you are more than just a guy who "fucks and dump" kind of guy in order to have sex with girls.

3.- you will not fuck and dump

Not necessarily. Although you do not want to communicate that you do that, you don't need to communicate that you won't. I surely don't. I have no problems conveying to a girl that I am very potentially a one night rodeo - but a good one with no consequences and no strings attached.

Some girls actually favor this to "more significant" sex that is not just casual. But again, it all depends on the girl in question, the context and the overall interaction between me and her (the frame of the interaction, the vibe, and the context in which it takes place).

Other women favor sex that has more long-term significance.

In general I opt for the risk-averse option which is to communicate that:
1. I am fine with one-night stands just being one night stands.
2. But that I am open for longer term stuff (which I actually am, under very strict conditions - which I do not always need to state to her) if me and her are able to connect before sex, during sex and after sex. Additionally I may add "If I see, feel and experience that she shares common values around intimacy, connections and sex with me - i.e. values of being non-judgemental, open, experimental, and hopefully god damn freaky! I may also say that that I want sexually confident girls who allow themselves to open up sexually and release their inner beast (ref: submission gambit).

.... I mean, why not just add some chunks of sex talk while you are at it

 

[Skills]

Not necessarily. Although you do not want to communicate that you do that, you don't need to communicate that you won't. I surely don't. I have no problems conveying to a girl that I am very potentially a one night rodeo - but a good one with no consequences and no strings attached.

Some girls actually favor this to "more significant" sex that is not just casual. But again, it all depends on the girl in question, the context and the overall interaction between me and here (the frame of the interaction, the vibe, and the context in which it takes place).

Other women favor sex that has more long-term significance.

In general I opt for the risk-averse option which is to communicate that:
1. I am fine with one-night stands just being on night stands.
2. But that I am open for longer term stuff (which I actually am, under very strict conditions - which I do not need to state to her) if me and her are able to connect before sex, during sex and after sex. Additionally I may add "If I see, feel and experience that she shares commun values around intimacy, connections and sex with me - i.e. values of being non-judgemental, open, experimental, and hopefully god damn freaky! I may also that that I want sexually confident girls who allow themselves to open up sexually and release their inner beast (ref: submission gambit).

.... I mean, why not just add some chunks of sex talk while you are at it

in usa, specially with certain demographic to pull faster from a date, to cover the "i do not do hook ups, i hate hook up" is very important.... if i did not cover that i do not think i would have pulled fast from a date specially in the 30s women crowed...

with younger from clubs (if is from online yes i would cover for stronger closing, obviously depending on the situation)....

keep in mind you could get laid without covering many, or any of the points (but i am talking increasing the odds)

 

[Teevster]

in usa, specially with certain demographic to pull faster from a date, to cover the "i do not do hook ups, i hate hook up" is very important.... if i did not cover that i do not think i would have pulled fast from a date specially in the 30s women crowed...

You may be right. Again, as mentioned it depends on context, the girl and the type of interaction you are having with the person

Women in their 30's, and you not being 20 anymore probably has an impact here.

My point was that:
a) it is not always a necessity
b) I never said it was (maybe cosy did)

Best,

 

[Skills]

You may be right. Again, as mentioned it depends on context, the girl and the type of interaction you are having with the person

Women in their 30's, and you not being 20 anymore probably has an impact here.

My point was that:
a) it is not always a necessity
b) I never said it was (maybe cosy did)

Best,

but most things are not necessary(judgmental, sexual competency/authority etc...), as i said i rather cover all posible objections in her mind/head pre pull.... Keep in mind i fucked most women with 0 sex talk just with physical game... in a "date" type situation, i still think is extremely important to cover the not getting fucked and dump experience in a dating scenario, it will totally increase the odd because it will remove one posible objection...keep in mind that i am not talking out of my ass, this is field tested over and over...

 

[Teevster]

but most things are not necessary(judgmental, sexual competency/authority etc...), as i said i rather cover all posible objections in her mind/head pre pull.... Keep in mind i fucked most women with 0 sex talk just with physical game...

Ironically, so have i between September and October, since my French was not up to speed with my mastery of verbal/norwegian verbals. Was fun actually getting laid through other means than I am used to, although the successes while still good were inferior - did not get those top tier girl, those super flashy pulls and those wild sex stories.

In November, not only did I bang some Canadian, Norwegian, Finnish and English women - hence going back to my old tools, but I also managed to deliver some easier sex talk gambit in french (here the purity gambit as well as the submission gambit comes to mind!) and managed to get some great french Puzzi. So eventually my verbal game in French will catch up to my English Norwegian one (actually the latter is a bit rusty).

n a "date" type situation, i still think is extremely important to cover the not getting fucked and dump experienced in a dating scenario, it will totally increase the odd because it will remove one posible objection...keep in mind that i am not talking out of my ass, this is field tested over and over...

Actually, I will agree with you here as well. Because the "date" sets a particular frame - not really a ONS frame. It is in the nature of the "date" that you are dating with the pretext that you opt for something longer term (even though both men and women with some brains accept the fact that it rarely is the case). I agree that this is culturally ingraved, since back in the days, dating was.... the process to find a wife lol.

But yeah I was thinking this in a pure ONS context. Me and dates.... that's something that rarely happens these days. I mostly go for one night stands from clubs. More fun.

I think we agree.

Best,

 

[Skills]

Ironically, so have i between September and October, since my French was not up to speed with my mastery of verbal/norwegian verbals. Was fun actually getting laid through other means than I am used to, although the successes while still good were inferior - did not get those top tier girl, those super flashy pulls and those wild sex stories.

In November, not only did I bang some Canadian, Norwegian, Finnish and English women - hence going back to my old tools, but I also managed to deliver some easier sex talk gambit in french (here the purity gambit as well as the submission gambit comes to mind!) and managed to get some great french Puzzi. So eventually my verbal game in French will catch up to my English Norwegian one (actually the latter is a bit rusty).

lol you missunderstood me my fault, prior to second generational verbals (couple of years back) all my pulls were physical game (so the majority of my lays), but after i learned the second generational verbals (sex talk), most of my lays now do involve sex talk...(unless is a dtf girl were she is the one pulling and the likes)

Actually, I will agree with you here as well. Because the "date" sets a particular frame - not really a ONS frame. It is in the nature of the "date" that you are dating with the pretext that you opt for something longer term (even though both men and women with some brains accept the fact that it rarely is the case). I agree that this is culturally ingraved, since back in the days, dating was.... the process to find a wife lol.

But yeah I was thinking this in a pure ONS context. Me and dates.... that's something that rarely happens these days. I mostly go for one night stands from clubs. More fun.

I think we agree.

Best,

yeah bro! i hate arguing with you about your methods lolololol.... is bizarro..... yes with older women, women that bring up the subject of fuck and dump, women that still give you the 50/50 look after you deliver the 8 orgasms routine, women online with the no hook up crap, you will have to cover that aspect.... Now i am too lazy so i just reajusted the whole thing to cover it, vs waiting for her to bring it up as objection....

similar to my real life sales style i just cover every possible objection that i may think the client may have, then i close, that way i don't have to convert from a no.... in seduction from asd to convert to opening the legs...(i rather not get any asd)

 

[Teevster]

lol you missunderstood me my fault, prior to second generational verbals (couple of years back) all my pulls were physical game (so the majority of my lays), but after i learned the second generational verbals (sex talk), most of my lays now do involve sex talk...(unless is a dtf girl were she is the one pulling and the likes)

No worries, I was just sharing some experiences anyway.

yeah bro! i hate arguing with you about your methods lolololol.... is bizarro..... yes with older women, women that bring up the subject of fuck and dump, women that still give you the 50/50 look after you deliver the 8 orgasms routine, you will have to cover that aspect.... Now i am too lazy so i just reajusted the whole thing to cover it, vs waiting for her to bring it up as objection....

similar to my real life sales style i just cover every possible objection that i may think the client may have, then i close, that way i don't have to convert from a no.... in seduction from asd to opening the legs...

I agree with these calls. I would probably do the same, although I rarely go on dates, and even less often with 30+ women (and those back in the days who were 30+ going on day2's with me knew I was just a shag since I was so young and could not potentially be anything serious - might be a bit different now).

You know very well that I also like to take preventive measures rather than actively damage-control. My comment was just a correction of you claiming that I or cosy said that you had to communicate such a frame. My point was that it is not always necessary, but in your particular case, I would say that you are making the right calls.

Best,

 

[Skills]

You know very well that I also like to take preventive measures rather than actively damage-control. My comment was just a correction of you claiming that I or cosy said that you had to communicate such a frame. My point was that it is not always necessary, but in your particular case, I would say that you are making the right calls.

Best,

actually you are right, just re-read cosy never made such claim, is my claim lol...... ok the only one more thing i will clarify is not only 30+(since i still bang girls in their 20s as well, i banged a 22 year old for example) here are the scenarios:

- if she implies that she has been used (guys only want one thing and the likes)
-if she implies looking for a relationship
-if she accuse me of a player (this one happens a lot, i totally look and give that vive unfortunately, a lot puas can go under the radar, a girl by looking at me totally thinks i am a fuck boy)
-if online she says "no hook ups" and the likes
-if during the delivery of any sex talk i notice body language resistant...

etc..... sorry guys for the derailed, but i consider sex talk one of the late epiphanies i am done...

 

[Teevster]

actually you are right, just re-read cosy never made such claim, is my claim lol...... ok the only one more thing i will clarify is not only 30+(since i still bang girls in their 20s as well, i banged a 22 year old for example) here are the scenarios:

- if she implies that she has been used (guys only want one thing and the likes)
-if she implies looking for a relationship
-if she accuse me of a player (this one happens a lot, i totally look and give that vive unfortunately, a lot puas can go under the radar, a girl by looking at me totally thinks i am a fuck boy)
-if online she says "no hook ups" and the likes
-if during the delivery of any sex talk i notice body language resistant...

etc..... sorry guys for the derailed, but i consider sex talk one of the late epiphanies i am done...

I agree 100% with this list.

I don't usually get the player vibe. My issue is different - that woman have a hard time cathegorizing me and making sense of me, which excites them but may also result in some resistance, depending on how things turns out (and how I play it).

About the derail, I will fix this. (edit: subject moved onto its own thread in general).

 

[Skills]

I agree 100% with this list.

I don't usually get the player vibe. My issue is different - that woman have a hard time cathegorizing me and making sense of me, which excites them but may also result in some resistance, depending on how things turns out (and how I play it).

About the derail, I will fix this. (edit: subject moved onto its own thread in general).

so we have similar issues, however mine is worst, player vive/fuck boy not only will get you auto rejections...

but friends and family will say "is that guy a player? to the girl" it gets worst when you are dating.... and they bring you around friends and family, just without me saying one word "that dude is a player" it totally sucks bro....

I knew you go under the radar (which is ideal since is extremely dangerous, style used to be like this)....

 

[Velasco]

-if she accuse me of a player (this one happens a lot, i totally look and give that vive unfortunately, a lot puas can go under the radar, a girl by looking at me totally thinks i am a fuck boy)

I, like Skills, go the very obvious fuckboi look. I look, dress, walk, and talk like a fuckboi. Every girl I talk to knows within minutes that I'm a player. One can say that this way is a great screening method for girls looking for one night stands. Because if she's talking to me and never once accuse me of being a player/hoe/fuckboi, then its because she doesn't care that I'm a fuckboi or if we see each other again. She just wants a good fuck. So in these scenarios it's, as Teevster says, not necessary to bring up the fact that you won't fuck and dump her.

It's only when you DO get accused of being a fuckboi (again she knew within minutes that I was a fuckboi, but now that she's starting to think about sex so she's gotta start shit testing me) that it's necessary to set anti-pump and dump frames. First get her to explain what she exactly she means that I'm a fuckboi? She'll list the shit I told her that confirmed in her head that I'm a fuckboi (the things that got her panties wet. So: sex stories, or just my look and vibe of a fuckboi). Then frame control how those things don't have anything to do with being a fuckboi. Those sex stories you told her were with girls who you had long loving relationships with. And nobody ever got hurt. And you don't like people who judge people by the cover of the book. And how would she feel if people called her a dirty slut just for dressing up cute. Then when her defense is starting to come down, talk about how you could have walked away from her and talked to any other girl tonight, but you stayed there with her because you like her and can tell she's different from all these basic hoes. And that if she does or doesn't want to have sex tonight you understand. You come from a family that's very against forcing people to do something they don't wanna do. You just like hanging out with her. Then pull her home. Get her wet. and fuck the shit outta her

 

[Skills]

teevester and velasco i hope you guys understand that i know when to and when not to bring it up, i also made the claim that you guys are making in cosy post, some moderator for whatever reason deleted it.... https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/sell-the-middle-length-relationship.21839/ which kind of piss me off, because i was giving the example of a girl that i pulled, who was dtf, were if i would have brought up the "i don't fuck and dumb frame" or middle relationship as cosy put it, would have backfirered and was unnecesary...

 

[naturalmikey]

the less attainable she finds you the more attracted she will be, considering she’s hot. “i’ll make him like me.” that’s the thought that goes through these girls minds. if she knows she’s more to you than one night she may very well lose interest very quickly.

if she’s not really hot (relative to you) she may need qualified more. pretty simple rule is how high does she see your value compared to hers. if she views it as much higher she may not want the blow to the ego of being “pumped and dumped.” if she’s a high value chick herself she’s gonna wonder what’s wrong with her that you don’t like her more.

just my opinion

 

[Chase]

I don't usually get the player vibe. My issue is different - that woman have a hard time cathegorizing me and making sense of me, which excites them but may also result in some resistance, depending on how things turns out (and how I play it).

This is the situation for me as well.

Not a player vibe, deliberately try to stay out of boxes, women often aren't sure exactly what I am.

Like @Teevster, I will usually set frames of "I'm cool with one night, but I also never rule out anything more if I like a gal."

Sometimes I will add that "you're strangers until you've slept with someone, so how can you make up your mind?" if I can feel like she's on the fence and not leaning toward wanting a relationship.

I will not suggest I wouldn't hit it and quit it. Because, like... I very well may hit it and quit it.

But also: I tried doing this thing for a while when women would bring this up: "Oh, I hate one-night stands!" they'd say. And I'd then look for a way to communicate I was on the same page with her. What I noticed when this would happen was that we would never end up in bed together. Probably because they did not believe me.

So my default for that scenario shifted to this:

HER: I hate one-night stands!​

​

ME: I think they have their place. I'll bet you've shagged guys where the sex was great, but when you woke up the next day you were glad the guy left.​

And she will laugh, and say yeah, that is so true, and the problem is solved because now she's back to feeling cool with ONS again... or occasionally she will look you dead in the eye and go, "No, I have never had that." At which point you have some options... you can shrug and change the subject, but you might have to deal with it later. Or you can tease her about it -- smile and tell her "Bullshit! I know there's been one."

There's also the risky (but fun): "Well, there's always a first time for that night you'll always regret [wink]."

That said, I also do not go for women in their 30s.

I have mostly avoided women in their 30s since I was in my early 20s.

So that might well be a thing you need to do more with women in that crowd.

Chase

 

[Teevster]

Sometimes I will add that "you're strangers until you've slept with someone, so how can you make up your mind?" if I can feel like she's on the fence and not leaning toward wanting a relationship.

I like this one. My go-to response is:

"I can tell you favor relationship, however sex in relationships can both be equally good for whole different reasons - whereas the first one offers more of a connection, understanding and intimacy, the other can oftentimes be more wild, adventurous and liberating. Both are good in my opinion and one should try and embrace both in life"

or "every relationship starts with a one night stand - the question is not if, it's how good it is going to be. Nevertheless what you are saying makes no sense to me".

But also: I tried doing this thing for a while when women would bring this up: "Oh, I hate one-night stands!" they'd say. And I'd then look for a way to communicate I was on the same page with her. What I noticed when this would happen was that we would never end up in bed together. Probably because they did not believe me.

Same experience here.

So my default for that scenario shifted to this:

HER: I hate one-night stands!
ME: I think they have their place. I'll bet you've shagged guys where the sex was great, but when you woke up the next day you were glad the guy left.

How do you make conversations look like this on this forum software? What's the button?

I am not a big fan of this answer since I do not want to elicit any emotions of her having a bad one night stand. It may trigger bad anchors.

But there are positive aspects too, like the pacing of understanding her world. So this is debatable.

Best,

 

[Chase]

I like this one. My go-to response is:

"I can tell you favor relationship, however sex in relationships can both be equally good for whole different reasons - whereas the first one offers more of a connection, understanding and intimacy, the other can oftentimes be more wild, adventurous and liberating. Both are good in my opinion and one should try and embrace both in life"

or "every relationship starts with a one night stand - the question is not if, it's how good it is going to be. Nevertheless what you are saying makes no sense to me".

Yeah I like those.

The second one has some nice confusion in there -- "I think we agree, it's just that I see the one-night stand as the start of the relationship. But actually we do not agree because I don't know what you're saying."

How do you make conversations look like this on this forum software? What's the button?

You can make an indent with the "List" button.

Color change you do with the tear drop button ("Text color").

I am not a big fan of this answer since I do not want to elicit any emotions of her having a bad one night stand. It may trigger bad anchors.

But there are positive aspects too, like the pacing of understanding her world. So this is debatable.

Best,

Yes, it can definitely do that.

I get some enjoyment out of trolling girls, and taking them into these confused or annoyed states and then pulling them back, so it is more my speed.

I think a more Teevster-friendly response is more along the lines of "Yes, however they also have their place. Imagine a woman and a man meet in a situation where they both know that neither of them can see the other again. Yet the sparks between them are undeniable, and both know that tonight may be their only chance to experience something that could well be fate. What they do there, I don't think anyone can judge them for." I've used a sequence like this a couple of times, to good results, when I thought my other options would not work.

Chase

 

[Teevster]

I think a more Teevster-friendly response is more along the lines of "Yes, however they also have their place. Imagine a woman and a man meet in a situation where they both know that neither of them can see the other again. Yet the sparks between them are undeniable, and both know that tonight may be their only chance to experience something that could well be fate. What they do there, I don't think anyone can judge them for." I've used a sequence like this a couple of times, to good results, when I thought my other options would not work.

I like this. Yes very much "me".

 

[Velasco]

Same experience here

I think it's because you JUST agree with them that you dont like one night stands either. But are still trying to sneak your way to fucking them.

Instead what will work is reframing how you will only sleep with her if you feel chemistry. So your not trying be a sneaky fucker.

Here is the gambit I stole from Alex of UMP

i’m not really a big fan of one night stands. I’ve had a lot of them. they can be a lot of fun, but at the end of the day, they feel kind of meaningless and empty. for me, its important that i feel chemistry with the girl on the first meet. and i will only sleep with a girl if I’m 100% sure that she’s the type of girl that id be open to being more than once. even if we have sex on the first night. I just need to feel that I’m compatible enough with her to see her more than once. I find sex way more fulfilling and meaningful that way, you know?

(At first I just used to say this as a gambit to get a SNL. But then I actually started to believe this and now it comes off as more congruent).

 

[Carousel]

I tend to make sure implicitly, or even explicitly that she won't get thrown out tomorrow or treated in a way consistent with usual pump and dump from the average "player". I don't think many girls these days expect a committed relationship from a one night hookup, however they ARE vary of feeling shitty from the usual pump and dump treatment.

 

[Velasco]

The second one has some nice confusion in there -- "I think we agree, it's just that I see the one-night stand as the start of the relationship. But actually we do not agree because I don't know what you're saying."

I think your misinterpreting with teevster is saying with the second response (or I'm misinterpreting him lol...). But basically he is reframing One Night Stands as sex the with someone new for the first time. Which is unavoidable. So why would she be against something that is unavoidable? (If the sex is shit then you dont have to see them again, therefore just a one night stand)