FR Shut Out By LMR Again- Different Girl, Even :(

[NarrowJ]

Quick Intro:

If you hadn't seen the FR I put up about a week ago - basically - I got this girl's number in the park as I was doing my afternoon run, and then a day later had a simple lunch date with time constraint (we both had to return to work).


Second Date:

Last night we went out for wings and a few beers. She texts me a little before “Hey I’m running about 10 minutes behind. Whoops, sorry!!” and so I text back “Hey HB8, not a problem. I actually had to stop and get gas so works perfect”. I intentionally wait until 15 after so that she’s already there in her car waiting when I arrive. She gets out of her car as I’m walking up to the door and she’s got these jeans that are painted on, and also some shirt that looks like it doesn’t come off either lol. Great…

So we get inside, and order wings. I get a draft beer and she goes for the $3 Long Island Iced Tea that’s on special. Nice. Over the course of the next hour, I seed some things at my house, but keep it subtle: I have paintings I’ve done, I have a couple movies that she likes, I have this really great wine, etcetera. At one point in the date, we’re really deep diving. She’s telling about how passionate she is about her career as a social worker, and how she makes a difference in people’s lives, etcetera. At some point she starts talking about a failed relationship. This is a shining moment for me as I truly finally grasp Chase’s concept of lightening the mood after deep-diving on what is sort of a “bummer” subject. I end the conversation by explaining that when one door closes, another opens, blah blah blah and then changed the subject to something cheerful / funny. This seemed to mark a point in the interaction where she becomes fully at ease and comfortable with me.

After about 2 hours of drinks and conversation, I go for the pull. I first tell her “Hey, let’s get a change of scenery. I kind of feel like just chilling. Want to go pick out something at the movie store?” She’s hesitant, so I drift off to something else for a couple minutes and come back to it. This time, I give her a couple options (ultimatum, basically) that we can either go grab a movie and watch it back at my place or else we can call it a night and get together again in a few days. This time, she happily accepts.

So we head to the movie store. Inside the movie store, I start to hardcore kino. I lead her around with my hand on the small of her back, lean close to her when we read the back of a movie, touch her arm gently, things like that. We get the movies, and she follows me back to my house.

We arrive at my house, I put the movie in and make us a couple drinks. She is standing by the couch and actually says to me “Where are you gonna sit? I’m waiting to sit until you sit. Usually guys have their spot” and I coyly say “My spot is next to you” and she smiles real big and is like “ok!”. So she sits down next to me, and about 10 minutes into the movie I grab her chin and we kiss. We are making out on the couch. I’m doing the push/pull routine for a while, and then things start to get pretty hot and we’re making out a little more heavily so I try to unbutton her pants and she’s like no and pushes my hand away. I start rubbing her crotch through her jeans and she allows this. After maybe 3 tries I finally get her pants unbuttoned. She fights me as I try to get my hand in her pants. Also, her jeans are so tight it is really really difficult to get my hand in there anyway. Eventually I do get my hand in there and try to swipe her panties aside and insert a finger. She jerks away and goes to the bathroom. Comes back with pants buttoned, of course. I basically repeat what I just explained except I never get to the point of getting my hand down her pants.

So, eventually we both decide we are tired. She asks if it’s cool if she crashes with me, so I say yes and I get her some of my basketball shorts and a t-shirt to sleep in. When she gets in bed, we start making out some more. But, the same thing: she will let me rub her pussy through the shorts, but won’t let me put my hand inside. She rips my hand away emphatically each time I try. I take these profound “No” reactions to mean I should stop. She then starts to try to give me a hand job, but I am not into it at all. I just lay there.

So eventually we go to sleep and she gets up and goes in the morning. I give her a hug - didn’t kiss her goodbye - and she leaves. She texts me the following night: “You win anything???” (because she knew I was going to St Louis to the casino there). I didn’t respond at all. She also texted me again yesterday: “Hey you! How did your weekend go?”, and I didn’t respond to that either. Unless she asks, I’m just going to blow her off. Fuck that lol. If she does ask, what should I say? I was thinking I could just be like “Well, to be honest… I don’t date women that withhold sex. I’ll just date someone else. Ya know?”

Thoughts are welcomed!

Thanks
NarrowJ

 

[PinotNoir]

Dude, that was a great job, even without the sex.

Maybe you should have let her rub your penis a bit. Ricardus had a post about how this can turn a cold woman on. I couldn't find it when searching... It was a whole article on resistance. He also said to just go cold and stop and say something like, "Maybe we should just be friends."

Personally, I don't know about the "just be friends" line, but I know that there's truth in a woman touching an erect penis and getting more turned on. However, if you just weren't in the mood anymore, that's understandable.

I think because of the fact that she still wanted to stay after your hard persistence that she's boyfriending you.

When you drank back at your place, was it alcohol? This can make women more accepting of sex and "blame it on alcohol."

 

[Laowai]

Narrow, always a pleasure to read you FRs. A few points:

1) LMR is commonly caused by a lack of qualification. On my dates I try to make it a point to mention explicitly at least three things that I like about their personalities. I also point out that I feel that we have a great connection, and that it's rare to meet people that you connect so well with.

2) Consider throwing in some sort of LMR inocculator on future dates.

3) Were the lights turned off in your bedroom when you pushed for sex? That sometimes helps because girls are especially aware about their insecurity regarding their bodies when they are with a new guy.

4) You should have tried to bang her in the morning. Sometimes when a girl stays over and offered LMR on the preceeding night, she is more likely to bang out in the morning. Not sure why, but it might be a comfort thing.

5) Great job seeding stuff at your place. You didn't do this in the past. You're learning and getting handsomely rewarded.

6) Why blow her off, when you can get her next time? Get her back again in an SL, if she gives LMR again, just ask her why. Be prepared to qualify her ass off then. This is for learning how to deal with LMR next time it wields its ugly head.

7) You not returning her texts at all confirm to her, that you only wanted to bang her and that she means nothing. Now she's like: "I'm sure glad I didn't do anything with that guy. He just wanted to use me, he didn't truly like me."

 

[NarrowJ]

Laowai, how's it going man? Yes, as you can see I've put some of your good advice right to work!

I'm more concerned about items #1 and #2 than your items #6 and #7 with this particular girl. If she were higher value / better looking, then by all means I'd see fit to pursue this further.

The answer to #3 is yes. Completely dark. Although I admit, it wasn't planned that way or anything.

On #4, she was already up and had changed clothes by the time she woke me up to tell me she was leaving. I pretty much sat up (still half asleep), and then eventually got up and walked her out.

 

[NarrowJ]

@PN -

Dude, that was a great job, even without the sex.

Thanks man! Hell, I thought so too! Haha guess it just wasn't good enough

When you drank back at your place, was it alcohol? This can make women more accepting of sex and "blame it on alcohol."

Yeah, I had wine or rum. She chose rum & pineapple. I had a rum & coke. Maybe I didn't get her drunk enough ;-)

 

[trashKENNUT]

J,

Narrow, always a pleasure to read you FRs. A few points:

1) LMR is commonly caused by a lack of qualification. On my dates I try to make it a point to mention explicitly at least three things that I like about their personalities. I also point out that I feel that we have a great connection, and that it's rare to meet people that you connect so well with.

2) Consider throwing in some sort of LMR inocculator on future dates.

3) Were the lights turned off in your bedroom when you pushed for sex? That sometimes helps because girls are especially aware about their insecurity regarding their bodies when they are with a new guy.

4) You should have tried to bang her in the morning. Sometimes when a girl stays over and offered LMR on the preceeding night, she is more likely to bang out in the morning. Not sure why, but it might be a comfort thing.

5) Great job seeding stuff at your place. You didn't do this in the past. You're learning and getting handsomely rewarded.

6) Why blow her off, when you can get her next time? Get her back again in an SL, if she gives LMR again, just ask her why. Be prepared to qualify her ass off then. This is for learning how to deal with LMR next time it wields its ugly head.

7) You not returning her texts at all confirm to her, that you only wanted to bang her and that she means nothing. Now she's like: "I'm sure glad I didn't do anything with that guy. He just wanted to use me, he didn't truly like me."

I am with Laowai on this. You can respond to her text, especially if she's asking the second time around. She don't actually put you somewhat as a guy whom actually "didn't make it happen" but rather she's asking on your well being. i think you can salvage this.

That said, you can pretend you were busy enjoying the casino and all that stuff and return her text the next few days, telling her about the casino and that you want to meet her again. Here you will likely know, so worth going again.

Zac

 

[NarrowJ]

Zac,

Definetly agree, Laowai giving good advice here as usual. However, I don't want to date this girl regularly. Just wanted a fling or maybe FWB. I feel like I might have screwed up the frame, if anything. She wants to boyfriend me, so in my mind if I go along with that I'm only going to hurt her feelings and create drama for myself in doing so.

If I felt her to be higher quality, and that I would legitimately pursue something more than just sex, then I'd probably continue with this. Also, I felt as if she was trying to use sex as a tool to get me to do more with her than what I want to offer her at this time. That ends up being unfair to both of us, I think.

But, I admittedly am still not very good at reading these situations- so I could be way off here!


-NJ

 

[trashKENNUT]

NJ,

Definetly agree, Laowai giving good advice here as usual. However, I don't want to date this girl regularly. Just wanted a fling or maybe FWB. I feel like I might have screwed up the frame, if anything. She wants to boyfriend me, so in my mind if I go along with that I'm only going to hurt her feelings and create drama for myself in doing so.

I think like what you said, what you are worried here is if she will be attached. Throw the "Screwed up the frame" out of the window, This is because she initiate contact with you.

I suggest you send the text, and make meeting up for coffee a priority. Here, she knows the deal that you not gonna talk to her much about how's your day and all, and you in fact meet up with her before and make your move already. So this implements that your only interest in her are purely sexual.

If I felt her to be higher quality, and that I would legitimately pursue something more than just sex, then I'd probably continue with this. Also, I felt as if she was trying to use sex as a tool to get me to do more with her than what I want to offer her at this time. That ends up being unfair to both of us, I think.

But, I admittedly am still not very good at reading these situations- so I could be way off here!

Women will always try to rope you somewhat into a relationship even if you do expectation setting. IT is just biological. Unless she is really persisting some like studious or religious girls, you usually don't touch those two groups of people and you probably be in a lot drama later, because you never heed her persistence on her thoughts about sex and relationships.

and you write here, that you felt she is not of a high quality women, so the FWB is not a hinder. It's up to you, what your gut says.

Zac

 

[NarrowJ]

Zac,

I think we are on the same page, man. I'm just afraid I will end up taking her out on another date, and she still won't comply with me on the sex thing. I just hate wasting my time, I guess.

She actually texted me for a third time yesterday, asking me if I wanted to meet her for a drink because she was free. I was busy, but I did return her message this time. I told her I'd like to, but already have plans in place. She then started asking me if I was mad because she didn't have sex with me, to which I just replied that - No, I wasn't mad. But, rather that she was looking really good and getting me riled up but she wasn't allowing anything to happen to release all the tension she was building up. She apologized, and said she didn't intend to do that but just really enjoyed kissing me. From there, I just kind of told her that I understand everything she is saying- but that I just tend to lose attraction if I don't sleep with a girl fairly quickly. I also told her that is my problem, and nothing she did or didn't do.


-NJ

 

[Laowai]

Wow, Narrow, you're really making this girl feel liked ; ) Some things are better left unsaid. Not all people care for the hard truth, especially not girls.

I hear you on the wasting your time thing with ladies who wouldn't have sex, but you must see this as a learning process. Once you have sex with a girl you're in a much better position to get feedback about your sarge and why she potentially gave you LMR. This is information that you can use the next time a girl gives you LMR. Also, youøve already invested a fair amount of time with this girl and you didn't even get laid. If you look at it cynically, you will loose your investment in time and money if getting laid was your sole goal, whereas if you add just a little more time/money, you may yet get what you want.

Ah, I can be such a romantic at times ; )

 

[NarrowJ]

I hear you on the wasting your time thing with ladies who wouldn't have sex, but you must see this as a learning process. Once you have sex with a girl you're in a much better position to get feedback about your sarge and why she potentially gave you LMR. This is information that you can use the next time a girl gives you LMR. Also, youøve already invested a fair amount of time with this girl and you didn't even get laid. If you look at it cynically, you will loose your investment in time and money if getting laid was your sole goal, whereas if you add just a little more time/money, you may yet get what you want.

Laowai,

Yeah, she did tell me why she gave me the LMR. She said she wanted to "know who I was first", which to me is a load of bull- she knows "who I am". I gave her the clear cut option to not come back to my place and just to end the date there, and go out another time. She chose to come to my house, make out with me to the point that we are going to have sex, then abruptly withhold the sex from me. I was going to give her an amazing experience. Her loss

I do always have in the back of my mind, a certain level of investment that I'm going to set forth with a particular woman. With a girl like this one, that level of investment is pretty low. Maybe a couple dates, three tops. Of course, that "cap" of investment can be raised and lowered based on our interaction(s). My cap on investment is usually 2-3 dates with women I only see as FB / FWB. However, that can be 4-6 dates if I view them as high value enough that I would continue to date them for a prolonged period of time.

And yes, I realize I was a bit harsh by telling her I just wasn't attracted to her anymore. But- how often has a woman told me: "I just see you as a good friend"? I don't feel bad about it at all



-NJ

 

[trashKENNUT]

NJ,

Yeah, she did tell me why she gave me the LMR. She said she wanted to "know who I was first", which to me is a load of bull- she knows "who I am". I gave her the clear cut option to not come back to my place and just to end the date there, and go out another time. She chose to come to my house, make out with me to the point that we are going to have sex, then abruptly withhold the sex from me. I was going to give her an amazing experience. Her loss

Chase is right all along. That women can only do so much to withhold sex, and great guys usually don't hang around her all too often, and orbiters are all guys that she doesn't really want, maybe not all that much.

Her loss, though. She know what she did.

Zac