Space's topic mostly about inner game, day game, and debating some other members' ideas

[Space]

Guys,

I see most of my interactions with you/others on this forum follow a very similar pattern. I simply don't have the human resources to type the same things over and over again whenever a new member joins the forum and we start communicating.

Why do I post it in the General forum? I' hope it's OK. First of all, this is still a very small community, we are only a handful of people. Most posts are in the General section of the forum. I know there is a Journals section hidden somewhere but not many people read them. I mean not many people read others' journals, especially they are hidden. The second most populous section of the forum is the field reports section. I have an ambivalent relationship with.

Where do I came from? Aka. the basic theme for this topic.

Stop using the fking 10-scale. You don't believe me, it's fine. See Chase's article on the topic. You see? No wonder I have trouble being part of this community (I mean, keeping up with the pace of the discussion) when literally every single person here is in the 10-scale mindset expect the founder, Chase, and me. And maybe one or two hidden lurkers. So basically we in a minority position with Chase, the founder on an important topic (the 10-scale or the lack thereof is an important psychological concept for our purposes) in his own community. No wonder I feel lost here, forum bankruptcy, I wonder if it's worth contributing here at all. The whole effort feels like Don Quixote's tilting at windmills, if you are familiar with this phrase.

I'm not into field reports either. See Chase on filed reports (hidden in an obscured forum where no one will ever find it) and my answer.

I simply don't have the resources to argue with every single person on this basic difference in our outlook in every single forum topic I feel like I have something to say about. I hope having my topic helps fostering fruitful discussions about topics of my interest. Thanks for your understanding, guys!

One of my main pet peeve with this community is, that besides the main idea is "Girls Chase", let girls chase you, you never have to chase girls again, things like that, I don't see most guys on the forum having breakthroughs in this regard. Everyone is at his level, but now I can't recall any frequent poster who gives the vibe to me he is living the let girls chase you, you never have to chase girls again lifestyle. If there is someone, let's find it out!

OK, I've found at least one person to live the investment banker debauchery lifestyle in NYC. It's all fine and I'm glad for him, but the thing is, not all guys are investment banker types. I'm certainly not one of them. I'm more like a laid back, relaxed Brent Smith-type and I can imagine his style of abundance to suit me better.

 

[Space]

Re: Space's forum bankruptcy and arguing with some (not all) forum members

-onespiritualpitcher

I can really relate to this dude. It feels like I can bed the 5/6/7s that I feel meh about pretty easily, but the 8/9/10s that really excite me slip away due to my neediness bleeding into my interactions with them.

Basically you wanted to argue with me about what you called objective beauty in razir110's topic. We shouldn't hijack his topic. I joined Chase's site and Chase doesn't suggest using the 10-scalce for it's inefficiency (I linked to Chase's article in the first post) and neither do I. But most guys on the forum are still in the 1-s-clae mindset.

A very academic debate aside about objective beauty it's suffice to say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That should be enough for our purposes here. It's enough for my purposes.

There's more. Bacchus wrote an article about the 3 schools of seduction. Where do you see yourself and how do you see yourself graduating to the abundant mindset? The whole 10-scale thing screams scarcity to me. I'm sorry. Don't get me wrong I'm not picking at you. We just started to talk to each other and I though this topic is the place to get to the abundance mindset together whoever joins me on the road.

Earlier this year I did a little over 100 day approaches in a big South American city over the course of 3 months. That was probably more day game approaches than I had ever done before in my whole life combined.

Out of those ~100 approaches...
-> ~60 hooked, and I had at least a minute conversation with
-> ~30 gave me their contact info, either Instagram or WhatsApp #
-> date with 10 of those 30
-> sex with 5 of those 10 (3 on 1st date, 1 on 2nd date, 1 on 3rd date)
-> more than one night of sex with 3 of those 5

The other day I've watched this video from Sasha. OK, it's a 15-minute video, but perhaps you can just watch the part from 6:30 to 8:00. Your above numbers are certainly better than Sasha's example and I don't want to equate you with his example. But yeah, in the theory and the principles, is your experience any different? Again, I'm not picking on you, we got into this interaction here, so you got into my mind watching this.

I’m actually not German, only was living here for the summer. I could go on a huge rant about girls here and being flirty with guys besides their boyfriends. So many relationships here are made through practicality, without much passion. When YOU can elicit that passion from a girl, just make sure her boyfriend isn’t around to see you do it lol

It's cool.

 

[naturalmikey]

Re: Space's forum bankruptcy and arguing with some (not all) members

https://blackdragonblog.com/2019/10/07/ ... ess-scale/

I kinda like this scale

 

[Space]

Re: Space's forum bankruptcy and arguing with some (not all) members

Okay. Before anything, I suppose the topic title should be

Space's forum bankruptcy and debating some (not all) members

So debating, not arguing is the right word I suppose. English isn't my first language. I hope the forum gods allow me to change it. I created this topic to have a positive environment. I still don't find 2 hours enough to form a proper post. The best hings usually come to my mind later than 2 hours like clockwork.

 

[Space]

Re: Space's forum bankruptcy and arguing with some (not all) forum members

-onespiritualpitcher

It seems I forgot to address your main question to me. I'm sorry. But let's get into it!

Your original reply to me seemed to suggest that in order to approach during the day like I did, one would have to drop their standards and not have anything else going on in their life besides meeting women. That is completely wrong. If you live in a big city you can easily approach one beautiful woman a day by carving out 15 minutes to walk around busy city streets.

My short answer is that yes, it happens quite often that I don't find one attractive women I'm genuinely interested in talking to in 15 minutes when I'm in the city center. But let me explain. I don't know what's your definition of a big and bustling city. I'm certainly not in New York of all places (I imagine it's busy and bustling on a different scale), just a European city of a million people. Yes, I can remember talking to (Opening? Let me cut that PUA-speak crap at least from my topic, thank you) 5 sympathetic girls during the daytime and 10 during the night. The former usually happens in summertime when the girls' clothes are shorter and my mood is also warmer. For the night it can be 10 girls or next to zero girls. I'm the same person. Maybe I'm extremely moody, or maybe it's the magic of randomness of what a given day gives me, I don't know.

I've referenced Mark Manson's Fuck Yes or No article more than enough times here. Maybe it's worth mentioning one more time. Chase also agreed in a post that I don't have the problem that I have to lower my standards, so you have that, too.

Now winter is coming, where to meet girls this time of the year? I've written two long winded posts about how the mall is literally the only place I haven't cracked yet. Here and here.

That said, just recently we started talking to each other with a nice girl in the video games section in the electronics store in the mall. Sure, I was more indirect like you should be more laid back and indirect during the day, shouldn't you? She wanted to talk to a shop clerk. I'm not a gamer so I couldn't sell her on what she wanted. What are you supposed to do when you are in somewhere like a store and the girl is doing business with the shop clerk? Are you supposed to stealthily spy on her looking for the minute she becomes free again? Obviously I've lost her from sight, the mall is just so busy and chaotic. But luckily I've stumbled upon her by accident in this big and bustling mall, now she was on her phone. In this part of the world when girls are out and about during the day they actually talk to people on the phone, too. Even the younger generation. I've heard it's different in the US, when even older people are mostly only texting. So you have that, too. What should you do when the girl you want to talk to is on the phone? RSD Max had some advanced video how he interrupted a girl on the phone, but since then he took down all his footage. Maybe he changed his mind about it and doesn't recommend such tactics to guys in today's climate. So what has happened when I stumbled upon her again while she was on the phone? We smiled at each other, I make some hand gestures and off she went while still on her phone.

In 50% of situations I do not approach. Maybe I should?

Would you approach on a busy public transport? I don't do it. Only when it's not crowded and there is plenty of free space. When it's crowded I hope we get off at the same station and I introduce myself to her then. But I can't always arrange for that, after all it's still a big and busy city and I'm going to places to appointments most of the time.

All in all daygame is complex subject in and of itself as with it everything is in flux.

 

[Space]

Re: Space's forum bankruptcy and arguing with some (not all) members

https://blackdragonblog.com/2019/10/07/the-hotness-scale/

I kinda like this scale

Do you still ditching the 10-scale has a positive psychological effect as Chase argues? Interestingly you still succumb to using the 10-scale across the board. The power of the masses.

Some other options.

Roosh's simplified 5-scale. 10 is only Photoshop, so ditch it, and considering you wouldn't do a 5, you rank 1-to-5 together. So you get a 5-scale from the ranks of 5-to-9 of the old 10-scale. I wouldn't recommend this scale though.

The scales I would recommend are much simpler.

Badboy categorizes girls in three ways: she is either a yes, a no, or a maybe. If she is a maybe then she is a no. So it's binary. Then we are already at Mark Manson's Fuck Yes or No binary scale which I referenced to more than enough here.

 

[Space]

All in all daygame is complex subject in and of itself as with it everything is in flux.

Daygame situation! What would you have done?

So I've mentioned before that I approach more in the summer (obviously) and as the weather gets colder and girls get fully dressed I'm also less in the mood. But! As I was on my way this cute girl was standing in front of a building seemingly waiting. I thought perfect, I get to her and introduce myself. But before that a random gay came out of the building and the girl asked her to make photos of her with the building as the background. The building is nothing special architecturally, but it's a cultural building maybe that's how she connected to it, but it was line 1 in a million chance that anyone wanted a selfie in front of this particular building.

The girl posed, the guy took her photos, oh, meanwhile I already passed them, remember I was on my way, guy gave the girl her phone back they parted and the girl entered the building. So yeah, daygame is full of these funny and unexpected situations. Except for there are much more situations for a moody guy like me in the summer than in late autumn. Anyway, what would you have done here? So I was like 10 meters from the girl when the guy reached her and she asked him to took her photos. But again it was like completely unexpected. Who in their right mind wanted to take her selfie in front of the ...? 1 in a million chance.

 

[Pitcher]

I have not forgotten about you Space! An inter-continental move has been my priority over the last 2 weeks.

I’m cooking up replies to your previous points. This will be fun

Anyway, what would you have done here? So I was like 10 meters from the girl when the guy reached her and she asked him to took her photos.

My rule of thumb is that the more attractive a girl, the more out of my way I’ll go to open her. Law of the harvest. This is a situation where I only would have opened if I found her very attractive. A strong fuck yes

I might have jumped in and told the girl her photo would look better if she had a dashing gentleman in it with her, getting the other guy to take a picture of us both. I might have jumped in acting like I’m a photography or modeling agent, giving the guy taking the photo some pointers. I might have sneakily gone up to the girl to put bunny ears behind her head. I’m more of a fun and playful type initially when I’m at my best and then later on I let the girl discover my serious nature.

There are an infinite number of skillful ways to open in any context. Some situations are certainly more challenging than others.

You need to start focusing on solutions and reasons why you CAN instead of focusing on problems that come up and why you CAN’T.

 

[Pitcher]

Stop using the frea-king 10-scale. You don't believe me, it's fine. See Chase's article on the topic.

I mostly agree about the 10-scale. Even before reading Chase's article you linked I knew in an ideal world we would ditch it entirely. But it can be a helpful metric for personally seeing if you are making progress, whatever that means to you. Are you having better interactions/connections/relationships/sex with better and better people? The 10-scale is just a proxy for determining better on a broader scale. It has it's glaring downsides, though I think there are benefits you can get from using it occasionally to gauge your progress.

One of my main pet peeve with this community is, that besides the main idea is "Girls Chase", let girls chase you, you never have to chase girls again, things like that, I don't see most guys on the forum having breakthroughs in this regard. Everyone is at his level, but now I can't recall any frequent poster who gives the vibe to me he is living the let girls chase you, you never have to chase girls again lifestyle. If there is someone, let's find it out!

As a man, you are the hunter. Gazelles do not chase lions. Men penetrate the world. Women receive our penetration. I think this article relates to this.

Even the men who have created a lifestyle where they are surrounded by women/have women throwing themselves at them (celebrities/pro athletes/rockstars/Dan Bilzerian/etc.) have had to do something special in life to earn that. There is no sitting around and letting it all happen. Well maybe there is a way to meditate/veg out your way to an abundance of pussy lol. Discover that, be my guest. But in my experience everything in life happens because of the effort/focus/hard work/energy/awareness you put in. Law of the harvest.

There's more. Bacchus wrote an article about the 3 schools of seduction. Where do you see yourself and how do you see yourself graduating to the abundant mindset? The whole 10-scale thing screams scarcity to me. I'm sorry. Don't get me wrong I'm not picking at you. We just started to talk to each other and I though this topic is the place to get to the abundance mindset together whoever joins me on the road.

Within his categories, I'm more of the Natural and I'm in this community to be more of the Controller. Depends on the situation. I have a pretty chameleon personality. I have a super outgoing side that can be a dancing monkey in a club. I have serious and reflective side that likes to watch sunsets and question everything about the world. My fundamentals are strong, biggest area with room for improvement is probably my voice and making it a bit less nasally and instead making it more resonant. I've developed an outgoing/charismatic personality that draws people in.

I rarely think when I'm out with a girl. I focus on the present, enjoying the feminine essence of the girl in front of me. I let my fundamentals and personality do most of the work. I used to be super shy around new people and in group environments. I used to get friend zoned left and right. I probably was (still am?) slightly aspergers. I still have a ways to go with sub-communication, reading situations, calibrating depending on the girl, and I'm sure inner game stuff too. We all do.

I see myself gaining more and more of an abundance mindset by living in accordance to my hero's journey, learning some tactics/routines/lines that I can adapt for myself and to lean on when I experience social/seduction situations out of my comfort zone, and fine tuning my social intuition to gain a better understanding of women/people in general.

The other day I've watched this video from Sasha. OK, it's a 15-minute video, but perhaps you can just watch the part from 6:30 to 8:00. Your above numbers are certainly better than Sasha's example and I don't want to equate you with his example. But yeah, in the theory and the principles, is your experience any different? Again, I'm not picking on you, we got into this interaction here, so you got into my mind watching this.

Yes my experience is different. I've transformed myself into a social person. I'm not going out gaming girls. I'm connecting with people. I see someone I find beautiful and I let them know that. There's the part of me that doesn't want to put in the effort to turn a stranger into a connection. Many times I say okay and I say hello anyway. There's authenticity to it because I have walked a road that no one else has walked. I'm farking weird and I accept it. I'm 99% okay with myself.

I just moved to New Zealand for the summer. I've been here 8 full days so far. I've opened 4 girls I was sexually interested in. All 4 hooked. 2 numbers. 1 instagram. 1 lay. I've flirted with tons of other women, store clerks, the mothers of the kids I coach, the woman who trimmed my beard, a ~50 year old woman who commented on the shoes hanging off my backpack as I was walking who I then walked with for a few minutes. Am I going to lay all of them. No. But I'm going to dance with her energy. Every time I look a woman in her eyes it is on.

Sometimes I succumb to the low-vibrational energy in the world and don't get my flirt on. Nobody is perfect. But I'm always striving to be better. I'm always being a student of life. And I'm always flirting (or at least as much as I can). I try on purpose to be as social as possible because that is not my default setting (well underneath everything I think it is, it's just covered by the BS in the world/biological survive mode/social conditioning/past experience).

It is our job as seducers to open ourselves, girls, people, and the world in general to what we truly want deep down. Girls want good dick. People want connection, meaning, and a chance to thrive. The world wants us to turn suffering into love. Low-vibrational energy into high-vibrational energy. Alchemy.

@Space - What ACTIONS have you taken recently to improve your life or up your seducer skills?

 

[naturalmikey]

i just rate the girls i would fuck as either 6, 7, or 8+ it just becomes very subjective at the high end. 8+ is basically a girl no one in their right mind would label below a seven despite preferences. i agree with roosh that tens don't exist. i guess like emily ratjkowski or someone else that universally hot would be a 9+. but i doubt many puas are getting chicks like that regularly.

 

[Franco]

i just rate the girls i would fuck as either 6, 7, or 8+ it just becomes very subjective at the high end. 8+ is basically a girl no one in their right mind would label below a seven despite preferences. i agree with roosh that tens don't exist. i guess like emily ratjkowski or someone else that universally hot would be a 9+. but i doubt many puas are getting chicks like that regularly.

naturalmikey,

If it helps, I consider "10s" to be YOUR personal favorite "9s".

Everyone has a different definition of what a "10" is to them. Usually the only common denominator in each guy's analysis is that almost every girl a guy rates as "10" is probably at least a "9" to every other guy. Hence my logic.

Feel free to use that logic too if it makes sense to you.

Cheers,

Franco

 

[Space]

Guys, @Bacchus @Chase @onespiritualpitcher @Teevster and others who I forgot a long, long time ago. I'm especially sorry about the latter. I totally did not forget that I am supposed to write page length answers to you. But please don't take my disclaimer in my signature "forum bankruptcy" lightly. And the trio of learning about seduction, practicing it and also writing to this forum is a little too much for me. Seduction is a complex topic as it turns out (some of you may not like I'm linking back and forth all over the place but this is to save on even more typing) but this is what I can do now. Small steps.

OK, let's start with @Seppuku! I appreciate your later answer. But I'm systematic and I remember we talked past each other the last time. you are the same person, I am the same person and that's where it began:

I said that it really resonated with me what Badboy said: take up seduction as a new hobby. Who cares what Badboy said? Or indeed whichever YouTuber said the same who I recently watched? People can have different projects in their lives and different people have different circumstances and priorities but the "take up seduction as a new part time hobby" is what totally resonates with me deep down. Indeed, this is what I think is healthy advice for most folks here. We all heard about the guys who got totally fucked because of seduction going on their nerves. I'm not talking about the ones now who turned born again Christians or the David Tians. Like Mystery had some serious breakdown at some point. Keep your balance.

This is where we differ a lot. You are not going to have a real, significant change in your life without putting up some serious time to it. I mean the sort of change that takes your life in a whole new direction. Learning how to become good with women is one of such significant change, but not the only example. For instance earlier in my life I changed my career from telecom engineering, to investment finance. Both examples shared one common denominator. It takes 3 to 5 years of hard work and long hours devoted to the change. That is the cost of changing. I don't think the guys in this forum are obsessed. They are just spending the required amount of time for a change in their life they are seriously devoted to.

Your career justifies a different approach to your private life. Yes, there are other folks who are super-established in all areas of their life expect for seduction. And we hear about them in the news in the #metoo campaigns. But most folks can't afford to take apart 3 to 5 years to seduction only and nothing else. That's how I see it. At least speaking for myself.

 

[Pitcher]

@Space

My question still stands here buddy.

And by actions I mean ACTIONS IN REAL LIFE not via a computer screen.

@Space - What ACTIONS have you taken recently to improve your life or up your seducer skills?