Thanks for the response everyone! It is unanimously agreed upon that these type of women are not viable candidates for serious relationships. And sorry if this post ends up being long but I will try respond to some interesting points.
And also I wanted to ask a follow up question. Do you guys think its possible for a woman who was previously a hoe to un-hoe herself and become wifey material? I ask this mainly because of Donovan Sharpe and his gf. Long story short he is a red pill youtuber who got into a relationship with some chick who was a hoe. She gave him access to her phone and installed cameras all over her apartment in order to win his trust. Mind you she did this on her own free will, he did not request this. Are there any measures that will make you trust a woman who was previously a hoe?
If you're going to get into a relationship with these types of girls then you should not give a damn about sexual loyalty. Base all your decisions on how they treat you within the relationship and also have some fun on the side as well
I understand the concept but the mechanics and viability for non-exclusive relationships don't quite work for me. I assume its mainly due to my long term goals because I want kids and a stable household. There is too much of a time and opportunity cost dealing with non-monogamous relationships imo so they are counter productive for men who eventually want a traditional relationship. I have a hard time understanding how its possible for men to not care for sexual loyalty but I guess that those particular men fit into one or more of the following categories:
A) Absolutely no desire to have kids
B) Already have kids and doesn't want more
C) Has an uncontrollable urge for sex/women
D) Has a subconsciously deep rooted insecurity in their ability to get women regardless of how true or false that premise might actually be
I feel like any guy who doesn't fit in the above categories will care to some extent about a women's sexual loyalty. Category A is dangerous because the desire for kids will change with time. One day you might not want them but maybe 5 years from now you will and you might've passed up on a few women who were wifey material because you weren't ready to settle down.
My G, I can see you're really hung up on this sexual history thing.
Is that all a woman brings in a relationship? Is the only thing you value sexual loyalty?
Why does any of that stuff matter if she is treating you well and adding value into your life?
I know that was just meant as a friendly neg and not an actual question but I will answer anyway. To keep it short I have been cheated on and cheated with an the common culprit is always a woman with a particular sexual history. I wouldn't care about her sexual history if I did not want kids but I am absolutely terrified of the chaos that will inevitably ensue from having kids with the wrong woman.
And to the last question, the fact that she treats you well now doesn't mean she will treat you well in the future. Women have game too and they know how to bait and switch. They will treat you like a king until they feel they have you won over, then they will slowly drop the investment and do the bare minimum to keep you from running away.
Agreed, but screening is a complicated thing when it comes to long term loyalty. Because even if you picked the perfect women with all your perfect screens, a lot can still change in 10-15 years that is outside of your control
It is very unlikely that a loyal women will change unless something extreme happens. I would go as far as saying that a truly devoted and loyal woman tends to tolerate too much. The level of love and respect they show to their man is unbelievable.
On the other hand, the opposite is also true. You can do everything perfectly right and there is still a 99.99% chance you get burned when you are dealing with a women who isn't relationship quality.
Are you implying that a woman that has a high body count is a woman that is flawed?
If that is the case, how about us men in this forum that have high body counts? Are we flawed too?
It depends on your definition of flawed. If you mean flawed in the context of being loyal in a long term monogamous relationships then my answer is yes to both questions. I haven't met a person with a high n count regardless of gender who has never cheated. I am not saying its impossible for a high n count person to be loyal but its extremely unlikely.
You know you don't have to do any of that stuff right? Some guys want a sexual companion rather than a child
Not saying either is better but there are many ways to structure a relationship.
I mean damn, I've had 2 Ex-Girlfriends do some of the things you mentioned
- Take me to dinners
- Take me on holidays
- Help me with business and putting order in my life
- You know... all the typical things LTR guys do to their women... but roles reversed
And if those girlfriends slept with other guys, I really didn't care cuz I was getting all the benefits and less stress trying to manage their fidelity. But then again I wasn't monogamous either so that may have played a part as well, and had to end both relationships because they were pushing for marriage and kids
How do you keep yourself from becoming emotionally attached with chicks who treat you so well?
Where you stand out versus other men is that you don’t hold their sexuality against them (as nigh every man will) but you also do not let her run ramshod over your life without consequence.
What exactly does that mean? That you do not try to control them or let her actions make you insecure?
I guess the benefit of these chicks is that they’re lower maintenance tbh. You don’t need to babysit them. They’re very independent. And they chase harddd. To some of us that is worth more than sexual exclusivity. How this works with old age or kids in the picture though, i have no idea… and am still trying to figure out..
I strongly disagree, one of the woman I was dating right before this kinky one was the wifey material type and it was a lot easier to manage her. She didn't have any baggage so she her trust levels and communication skills were excellent. I feel like with wilder chicks you have to somewhat compensate for their baggage and that makes things harder to manage.
If you know you don’t like these chicks don’t force yourself, you’ll get hurt. I saw the forbidden fruit, took a bite and now i’m hooked, for better or for worse, we’ll see…
Its the good box bro lol. I know the struggle.
First I think we have to differentiate between body count and context. If she's just an an experienced girl with a relatively high sex drive who is usually in a relationship and has some fun in between, that's different from a girl who goes and joins a sex club to get cocks put in her from every direction because that's the only way she feels alive.
That was my initial impressions of the kinky chick. I don't mind a girl who has kinks and a lot of sex as long as most of it came under the controlled context of a LTR. Kinks that revolve around casual relationships are deal breakers for me.
For most it’s simply enjoying the freedom of engaging in a space where sexuality is truly no big deal. Where judgment is suspended.
I personally, as do they, enjoy fucking in spaces where other people are also fucking..
To each their own.
The good ones are policed well and creeps are thrown out, as are thirsty uncalibrated men so women really can let their hair down and enjoy sexuality without the pressures imposed by regular society.
It’s a club experience without the creeps, the pussy hounds and an immediate pull location when things get hot..
Ok that makes more sense to me now. I had the wrong idea of what sex clubs were like and I just googled some in my city for curiosity and it looked like a regular club. So they are basically typical night clubs that have logistics to have sex in. I don't really see the point, I don't mean to make absurd assumptions but wouldn't that just attract a crowd of unattractive/uncalibrated people who can't pull at normal clubs? Or are there usually strict measures to only allow couples in?
The big lesson for you here is do some digging early on in the relationship.
Usually it is going to take some time to unearth all the stuff a girl isn't ready to tell you right at the outset. If you don't bring those topics up and ask around a bit, you might never find it out.
You need to casually ask about sexual topics without any judgment, just to feel out where she stands on them, gauge her reaction, etc.
You are 100% right. I found out where I went wrong. I was field testing a technique on her and didn't dive deep enough. I am just now realizing that she was super close to opening up but I just missed a huge hint/window. I feel super retarded now for not catching it lol.
^ i am saying that i went into relationship as lover (like teevester suggested) not as provider and then switch to boyfriend (again as teevester suggested)..... nothing to do with freaks, but how i enter into relationships, for me every women is or can be a "freak"... hope this clarifies
"A quick word of advice is to never ever enter a relationship on her terms – as you don’t want to exchange sex for anything else than sex. Keep in mind that you can easily start relationships with women by being perceived as a sex provider – these relationships will be of better quality and last longer."
Yeah when you are dating the earlier the better my point is that you need to allow women to open up without judgement (she should not feel you are judgmental) key word EARLY...
That way you have enough intelligence depending of the particular guy need, to make an intelligent decision based on honest data....
if the girl can sense by micro expressions, vibes and attitude of the person that he is "looking for his queen" she will sell erroneous info. which will fuck up the screening
@FunGuy Your mistake is NOT doing ^ EARLY and catching feelings/mild onitis (even if you deny it)....
my point with the videos you want to allow women to open up and find out everything including sexual history and the main one for me history of cheating.... and make your decision based on your relationship goals based on this.
Ok I agree with that, I always come in neutral I don't telegraph what I am looking for. My biggest mistake was that I am incompetent at getting them to open up on their sexual side. And you are right I was catching oneitis too.
You are a god if you can get girls to admit that they had cheated before. I am guessing its a secret technique you use so I wont pry too much but is it something you get them to explicitly admit or do you jump to that conclusion based on her characteristics and habits?
I strongly dislike these also but sexual liberated and low self esteem don't necessarily go together..
There are many flavours of sexually liberated women. You are equating sexual liberation with low self-esteem, which is a type yes (largely a stereotype to be honest), but there are those who have very high self-esteem, and are simply highly inquisitive and high drive. These often play dominant in their relationships if the man is not sufficiently so (i personally get off on the simple knowledge that my woman can dominate other men and women, but not myself). These are more my flavour. The chaotic low self-esteem types are annoying and good for an ONS or low grade FB roles only..
You’re very idealistic. And though impressive, i have my reservations that strictly held ideals when established early into one’s journey in the land of women can prove a hindrance rather than a help when it comes to mastering them.
Maybe I’m wrong. I appreciate your perspective though.
My opinion is purely speculation but I disagree. If I had to pick an arbitrary number I would say that low self esteem is the main factor in at least 99% of women who are sexually liberated. You have to take into account that as human beings we do not have 1 self esteem bucket, we have different levels of self esteem for different things. For example I can have a high self esteem at my MMA skills if I have trained since I was a 3 years old, but I might have extremely low self esteem when it comes to public speaking.
Those chicks that you said have high self-esteem might have high self-esteem in the context of attracting men in general but maybe they have very low self-esteem/confidence that they can attain a specific type of man. That is usually how these infamous women like Kim Kardashian or Amber Rose operate. I can guarantee you that somewhere deep in their psyche they have extremely low self esteem for attaining celebrity status men so they compensate by sleeping around with a bunch of them. If you dive deep enough into any sexually liberated women's psychological make up you will find some sort of exploitable self esteem issue that is causing her to be sexual, even if it seems unrelated to her behavior.
We all have self esteem issues its just that for most of us it doesn't bother us enough to make us do things that will devalue our perceived self-worth or cause emotional baggage. Especially as a woman, If you are receiving pleasure in obliterating your perceived self-worth then it has to be scratching an itch on something you are extremely self conscious about. Its a weird pleasure and pain dynamic where the pain of not feeling self conscious is a lot stronger than the pleasure of having dignity and perceived self worth. The problem is that they think they can cheat the system and hide the signs of their sexuality and they always end up paying for it in the long run.
A woman who has strong desires yet suppresses them is more likely a coward than virtuous.
Cowardess is unattractive. As is a low sex drive. But here i’m describing personal incompatibilities and biases, not universals.
We’re sending this thread off the rails, which to be honest has revealed a ton of interesting takes and valuable insights. I’m enjoying this convo but let’s try not to steer it off course any further.
I think the original question I had about overly kinky women being bad LTR prospects has been answered so please feel free to derail the topic as its getting interesting.
But yeah... its a matter of your current goals. When I was younger and was into casual sex I would have agreed with you, but now that I have no interest in casual sex I disagree. Regardless I feel like having discipline over your emotions is more valuable than not having it. The perfect man or woman would be one who could transition ethically between casual sex and committed relationships. I think human brains aren't wired to do that though. There usually has to be a very long lull period in between to let us rewire our brains and adjust.
with little downside on my part.