FR SweetRepose

[Marty]

My cousin who lives in a neighboring state has been visiting her in-laws for Christmas, and her route home takes her right past my house. So I am expecting her to drop in, but shortly before she is due to arrive, I get a text saying she'll be an hour late. Everything is ready for lunch, so I switch off the gas cooker and head to the park for some fresh air and sunshine on this beautiful winter day.

As I skirt the edge of the pond, lying upon a swing-seat I behold a girl: eyes tight shut, a gentle breeze stirring her chestnut hair, a few strands of which lie across her sunlit face; asleep to the world. I stop, tiptoe to within ten feet, and shamelessly drink her in. Oh, to reach out and touch her!

I walk on a little, past some bushes, and descend the slope toward the pond's edge. A pair of ducks, disturbed by my approach, takes off across the water, loudly complaining. As I reach the shore I look back to see whether I can perhaps get the girl's attention from here; but no, she's out of sight.

As I return, whom do I see in front of me but the girl, strolling languidly along the path circling the pond. The ducks must have woken her. She glances back, sees me coming and makes brief, inviting eye contact. I am 90% sure it is the same woman. I am now five feet behind her and look briefly over my shoulder at the swing; it is indeed empty, and in motion, indicating that someone just got off. I draw level.

Not turning to look at her at all, but standing close and facing forward with her, I open thus:

• 
  Marty: You were in such sweet repose as I walked by... I trust my steps did not rouse you from your slumber?
  
  SweetRepose: (turns, looks at me curiously) Where are you from?

We build a little rapport before I ask her name. Then she asks what brought me to the park today, and I tell her of my cousin's delayed arrival. I ask her the same question:

• 
  SweetRepose: Well, I've been meaning to come here for a month or more, but never really got around to it... Today I finally took the plunge!
  
  Marty: (smiling broadly, sidelong gaze, grasping her arm firmly) Do you normally take that long to make decisions?

This banter continues for a while, and she really starts to open up. Walking aimlessly together is a lot of fun, but I decide I need to move her, so I suggest we take a path uphill and sit down together on a bench. She readily assents.

The park benches in our city have all clearly been supplied by a single manufacturer, and a unique aspect of their design is that they are segmented into two by a wrought iron support in the center, such that they will seat two comfortably, or four in a very intimate arrangement. I indicate a single section with a gesture:

• 
  Marty: If you sit here together it's cozy; if you sit apart it's rather distant. I opt for cozy. (She sits. I sit on the same section and put my arm around her.)
  
  SweetRepose: So what made you come up and start talking to me?
  
  Marty: I saw a very pretty girl lying there so peacefully and thought, wouldn't it be wonderful if I could come sit by you, speak with you? But you'd be awfully cross if I woke you. And then, as if by magic, you came back to life...!
  
  SweetRepose: (laughing) The last time a man approached me in a park when I was feeling lonely was in Paris...
  
  Marty: You didn't mention anything about feeling lonely. (tongue-in-cheek) How insensitive of me not to notice!

She giggles and tells me of a none-too-pleasant experience in Paris. I move her off of that subject and we get into a serious deep-dive. She's very responsive. By this time, among other things, she's told me about her parents, how she was raised, what decision points she's faced in life, which one she faces now. She's told me she's just turned thirty. She's even alluded to issues connected with her finances and property. We've spoken about her love for literature, for movies, for acting. The latter gives me an opening for a very deep question, in preparation for which I grasp her left hand in mine, fingers interlocked. (My right arm is already occupied, being around her shoulders.)

• 
  SweetRepose: (indicating my grasp with her free hand) This is fast intimacy!
  
  Marty: (chuckle, then look at her from the corner of my eye, very flirty, with a "seriously??" look) Well, I'm so sorry if you're not used to things happening this fast... (no attempt to move hand or change position whatsoever)
  
  SweetRepose: (giggling) "I'm so sorry... but I'm going to continue holding your hand anyway!" Right?
  
  Marty: (say nothing, raise an eyebrow)
  
  SweetRepose: Of course, if you feel like you need someone to hold hands with right now, that's fine...
  
  Marty: Oh, so I seem like I'm in dire need, now, do I? (phoney sigh) I must have it real bad...
  
  SweetRepose: (giggling more) But if anyone we knew were to walk past, they'd assume we were "together"...
  
  Marty: I'm not much concerned with what others assume, to tell you the truth!

Our conversation continues on a very pleasant note. I point out that I have to go soon because I don't want my cousin waiting at my door, and we walk together toward her car; mine is a little further. After a few minutes, I put a hand out in front of her to stop her, give her a sidelong glance, and she starts giggling again.

• 
  Marty: I wouldn't want you to think that all I do is push things as fast as possible, then run away... (she laughs). So I really think we should get a bite to eat, or at least a coffee, some day soon.
  
  SweetRepose: That would be very nice!
  
  Marty: So before I forget, let me get your contact details.

She saves her first name, last name and number in my phone. I'm impressed with the effort level. We chat for a while longer before we come to the place where we must part, for the time being. I take her hand; as I move to cheek-kiss her she leans in toward me, then after the cheek-kiss she gives me a lingering, happy, sparkling gaze.

She's already responded to my icebreaker and I have to decide how to move things forward with her. I'm determined not to let her down!

 

[Mr.Rob]

Sounding smooth as butter baby!

-Rob

 

[Marty]

I've lost this one as well, sadly.

Called her yesterday morning, she said she'd be up to grab a bite today, so I texted her this morning, still no response. Not sure where exactly I went wrong. She probably wasn't attracted to me in the first place, actually.

Comments welcome but I think my main problem is that I'm approaching girls who are uninterested. They all do stuff with their eyes and make-up which makes them seem like they're aroused, but actually they're not. I think I need to learn to read signals better. Like Franco was saying I need to hit escalation windows more aggressively, but I don't think I've noticed any escalation windows in my own interactions, although I see them in other people's FRs. Something to consider.

 

[Grand Pooba]

Marty,

From what I get out of reading this, this was the escalation window (bolded):

Marty: I'm not much concerned with what others assume, to tell you the truth!

Our conversation continues on a very pleasant note. I point out that I have to go soon because I don't want my cousin waiting at my door, and we walk together toward her car; mine is a little further. After a few minutes, I put a hand out in front of her to stop her, give her a sidelong glance, and she starts giggling again.

Marty: I wouldn't want you to think that all I do is push things as fast as possible, then run away... (she laughs). So I really think we should get a bite to eat, or at least a coffee, some day soon.

SweetRepose: That would be very nice!

Marty: So before I forget, let me get your contact details.

What I want to talk more about is what I underlined: In my opinion (and purely my opinion), by saying THAT, I think you seeded the idea of a longer term, relationship type deal, rather than just grabbing coffee and having some fun, or even having some fun right there. I say this because even though you moved pretty fast, particularly:

The latter gives me an opening for a very deep question, in preparation for which I grasp her left hand in mine, fingers interlocked. (My right arm is already occupied, being around her shoulders.)

SweetRepose: (indicating my grasp with her free hand) This is fast intimacy!

Marty: (chuckle, then look at her from the corner of my eye, very flirty, with a "seriously??" look) Well, I'm so sorry if you're not used to things happening this fast... (no attempt to move hand or change position whatsoever)

SweetRepose: (giggling) "I'm so sorry... but I'm going to continue holding your hand anyway!" Right?

Despite that, she still seems to have bought into that idea on some level. She seemed okay holding your hand, though only you can be the judge of HOW she held your hand...whether it was just hand holding for the sake of it, or there was some physical intensity buried inside it. Which brings me to:

SweetRepose: Of course, if you feel like you need someone to hold hands with right now, that's fine...

That's the tell, from what I can see (and this is again my opinion)...she thinks you're holding her hand because of romance, or the feeling of being together with someone romantically. It's girlfriendy. I think the right response to this should have been one more that was truer to the intentions of intimacy and fast sexual escalation, not romance.

Marty: Oh, so I seem like I'm in dire need, now, do I? (phoney sigh) I must have it real bad...

SweetRepose: (giggling more) But if anyone we knew were to walk past, they'd assume we were "together"...

Marty: I'm not much concerned with what others assume, to tell you the truth!

When I combine and process these:
"...but I'm going to continue holding your hand anyway!"
"Of course, if you feel like you need someone to hold hands with right now, that's fine"

What seems to emerge is that you didn't ask her WHY she's continuing to hold her hand, and instead remained silent. This was a great moment to introduce a chase frame she can rationalize. Something that gets to the idea of "why AM I holding his hand? It must be because I am ATTRACTED to him." In that silence she introduced the idea of you wanting to hold hands with HER because of something you're needing in your life.

At least that's how I read it.

So the combination of these things, coupled with your lack of available time then and there, as well as the final frame to get her number "I wouldn't want you to think that all I do is push things as fast as possible, then run away...," seems to set more a relationship tone than a lover tone. Maybe she laughed after that because that's what she really wanted...something fast, mysterious, and anonymous. Am I reading all this correctly?

 

[Marty]

Ozzo:

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to conduct this analysis... it gives me a good idea of how the interaction was structured that will help for future situations. You highlighted the theoretical underpinnings beautifully.

My first reaction when I read this:

In my opinion (and purely my opinion), by saying THAT, I think you seeded the idea of a longer term, relationship type deal

...was "Yeah, so?" There seems to be an odd notion buzzing around this forum at the moment that girls don't want boyfriends. That's not what Chase says at all.

What Chase writes in his articles is that if a girl thinks you'll make a good boyfriend candidate, she'll take things slowly so as not to mess up. That includes not rushing headlong toward sex.

Now quite frankly, I don't have an issue at all if that's what girls want to do, because:

• I can get sex elsewhere if I really want—it may not be as romantic and special as it would be with a new partner, but it's still fun
• I'm not so horny that I can't manage a day or two without sex
• I'm not so impatient that I'd write a girl off because she took, say, three weeks to sleep with me as opposed to one day

In summary, to be quite candid, if she's still seeing me regularly in the interim, I don't care. The sex can wait as far as I'm concerned. It really can. Honestly, it's about ten times as much fun kissing a new partner as screwing an old one.

What I do not like at all is when girls just disappear on me: "off the radar", as Chase puts it. And this is happening to me as soon as I start to like them, and I've no idea what to do about it. That's why the only way I can explain it, in this case, is that she never really liked me in the first place. In some other instances, that's not even a satisfactory explanation as the girl may have given unmistakable signals that she did.

One serious mistake I think I made here was not to kiss SweetRepose properly upon parting. I only cheek-kissed her, and if she had some notion that she liked me and I liked her back, that might have spoiled it rather. I should have gone for the full make-out... I've never done that right off of a day-game approach, it would've been nice.

What do you think?

-Marty

 

[luego]

Chase is obviously the only one who can explain his own words.

My thought, however, is that you're merging the lover/boyfriend role in a way that they can't work through comfortably in their minds. Unless you're so high up on the fundamentals that they'll chase you regardless, this could be a problem.

You're approaching as a lover. You're smooth talking, moving, getting investment, deep diving, and involving some fast physicality. All good stuff.
But what you're really looking for is more of the relationship game. And most of the population who play that game, do so in the "slow mover/ nice guy" mode.

Chase is huge on starting as a lover, even if you're going to convert to a girlfriend. But you're still looking to utilize the same lover mechanics, and yet be slower on the "move fast" for the girlfriend route. I'm not sure if your 2 games are compatible.

Just my 2 cents, though. The theory of all of this is always so so much easier than the practice, and you're already a million miles more advanced than me in your progression.

 

[Grand Pooba]

Marty,

There seems to be an odd notion buzzing around this forum at the moment that girls don't want boyfriends. That's not what Chase says at all.

I haven't noticed the notion on the forum that girl's don't want boyfriends; on the contrary, as you point out, when they do want you as a boyfriend, they will take things slowly as to not mess it up. What Chase also says is that when this happens, when the girl takes things so slow as to handle a peaceful kitten with mittens, she actually does end up messing it up because life intervenes/people move too slow to make things happen.

I think a bigger factor here, and what I was trying to get to, is more what the girl wants (or doesn't want) with YOU, not necessarily what you want with HER. If she doesn't want a boyfriend but that's what you come off as offering her, then I would think that means she might write you off the bat quickly. In my opinion, maybe she doesn't feel like she want's a boyfriend right now, but that doesn't mean that if you become her lover first she could want to turn it into a relationship instead. Somewhere in his articles Chase wrote "if the key to a man's heart is through his stomach, the key to a woman's is through her vagina."

The core message that I understand about GC material (correct me if this is wrong) is:

• move fast with girls
• get to intimacy and sex as fast as possible
• show her amazing sex/give her many orgasms
• once that's out of the way and you can keep her coming back for more, you can turn what you have with her into a relationship or something more if you desire.

Essentially it seems you want to start out as a lover, then move into the boyfriend category later if that's more what you want.

If I'm understanding this all wrong, do let me know. That would also be helpful to me and for the future.

What I do not like at all is when girls just disappear on me: "off the radar", as Chase puts it. And this is happening to me as soon as I start to like them, and I've no idea what to do about it. That's why the only way I can explain it, in this case, is that she never really liked me in the first place. In some other instances, that's not even a satisfactory explanation as the girl may have given unmistakable signals that she did.

I know this feeling. This is how I felt about my recent FR "Violet," in fact...I liked her a lot, but she didn't seem like me back as more than a platonic friend and there's nothing I can do about it, and I'll probably never see her again.

From what this sounds like, since this is happening fairly consistently (correct?), this could be your sticking point at the moment. And maybe this means you should assess these interactions and try something differently. What if you were to bed them before you started to actually like them? Or what if you stood strong and waited for them to like you before liking them, mentally giving yourself some space and just going through the motions of GC? These are just ideas...

I think that you should try contacting SweetRepose again this week...it wouldn't hurt.

 

[Marty]

Ozzo:

this could be your sticking point at the moment ...What if you were to bed them before you started to actually like them?

I think my sticking point is a bit earlier than that, Ozzo. I've never yet isolated a girl off of a cold approach, let alone bedding one!

I think that you should try contacting SweetRepose again this week...it wouldn't hurt.

Thanks. I have done. She actually answers my call each time, but then says she's busy (driving, decorating her house), and tells me: "I'll call you back, Marty". Needless to say, she never does. I think she doesn't really like me after all. No point in chasing.

-Marty

 

[Chase]

Hey Marty,

...was "Yeah, so?" There seems to be an odd notion buzzing around this forum at the moment that girls don't want boyfriends. That's not what Chase says at all.

What Chase writes in his articles is that if a girl thinks you'll make a good boyfriend candidate, she'll take things slowly so as not to mess up. That includes not rushing headlong toward sex.

[snip]

What I do not like at all is when girls just disappear on me: "off the radar", as Chase puts it. And this is happening to me as soon as I start to like them, and I've no idea what to do about it. That's why the only way I can explain it, in this case, is that she never really liked me in the first place. In some other instances, that's not even a satisfactory explanation as the girl may have given unmistakable signals that she did.

One serious mistake I think I made here was not to kiss SweetRepose properly upon parting. I only cheek-kissed her, and if she had some notion that she liked me and I liked her back, that might have spoiled it rather. I should have gone for the full make-out... I've never done that right off of a day-game approach, it would've been nice.

What do you think?

-Marty

Couple of points here:

• Yes, ABSOLUTELY, women want and love boyfriend candidates, and a great boyfriend candidate is far more valuable than a great lover candidate

• The standards for a good boyfriend are much, much HIGHER than a short-term lover - which means you must be operating at a much higher level, for a much lengthier period of time, to get the girl as a boyfriend than a lover - if you must be a 6 to get her as a lover, you've got to be a 9 to get her as a boyfriend

• A woman can entertain you as a potential lover without much thought to other things in her life; to consider you as a potential boyfriend, she must weigh you against her other potential boyfriends, her possible current partner or partners (whom you often will never know about), and her and your life situations - if she's moving away in 6 months, or she doesn't like men of your profession, religion, race, political affiliation, or even your sports team allegiance or what high school you went to, even if you're otherwise awesome, you're out. The lover just needs to fit her baseline desires; the boyfriend must fit her LIFE, and all the complicated, involved, interwoven parts within it

Essentially, the reason I suggest disqualifying yourself as a boyfriend is not just because being the lover is "more fun", but rather because being the lover means you don't have to be quite as impressive as a boyfriend must be; you don't need to be impressive across a number of dates; you're less at the mercy of whatever other obstacles she has in her life to a relationship; and the time horizon is much lower, which means there's a lot less chance of you messing up somewhere, her being pulled in another direction by somebody else, or life intervening in one of a million other ways.

A business way of thinking about it might be this: Company XYZ just had its CEO leave, and now needs a replacement CEO. It's looking for two roles:

• Interim CEO, and
• CEO

The full CEO role it has a laundry list of qualities must be met. The interview process takes about 3 months. And you'd better be the best damn CEO candidate this side of Jack Welch.

The interim CEO role, conversely, must be filled immediately, and its requirements are just this: don't suck, show that you clearly know how to run a company and at least will do a good-enough job, and be someone that everyone on the board intuitively says, "We like this guy; let's give him the role until we can find someone to takeover on a more permanent basis."

Which one do you want to go for?

The man who's confident in his abilities, even if what he WANTS is the full CEO role, grabs the interim role, does a bang up job in the role, and eventually the board forgets about all the other full CEO candidates it was pursuing and offers him the job. The other CEO candidates, all of whom had spent so much time and energy pursuing their rules, are dumbstruck, and wondering what happened... they thought they did such a great job impressing the board.

In fact, I've had a number of savvy friends who've climbed the corporate ladder far faster than they should've been able to based on tenure and seniority alone mostly by looking for power vacuums, taking interim roles, and just cleaning up so well on pure ability that all the candidates with leagues more experience and far stronger personal networks ended up getting told the company wouldn't be pursuing them any further because it'd found the perfect man for the job - the young kid they had who'd seized the interim role.

Dating is just like this. Even if what you want is a girlfriend, if you take her as a lover first, you stand a much better chance of ending up with her as your girlfriend than the man who courts her specifically to be his girlfriend.

Like Franco was saying I need to hit escalation windows more aggressively, but I don't think I've noticed any escalation windows in my own interactions, although I see them in other people's FRs.

Escalation windows I see in this report:

This banter continues for a while, and she really starts to open up. Walking aimlessly together is a lot of fun, but I decide I need to move her, so I suggest we take a path uphill and sit down together on a bench. She readily assents.

Going great so far. This one's a sign you saw an escalation window and acted on it, by the way - well done.

Marty: If you sit here together it's cozy; if you sit apart it's rather distant. I opt for cozy. (She sits. I sit on the same section and put my arm around her.)

Nice job getting buy-in from her with the upgrade in the level of coziness.

SweetRepose: So what made you come up and start talking to me?

Marty: I saw a very pretty girl lying there so peacefully and thought, wouldn't it be wonderful if I could come sit by you, speak with you? But you'd be awfully cross if I woke you. And then, as if by magic, you came back to life...!

SweetRepose: (laughing) The last time a man approached me in a park when I was feeling lonely was in Paris...

When women ask you why you approached, it's a test that also functions as an escalation window. If you pass it, attraction goes up another dial - it's essentially time to get things deeper and crank up the sexual framing, if you haven't already, or to prepare to pull in about 5 minutes or so, if you have.

When women talk about other men approaching them, especially in romantic ways, they're communicating explicitly that they're thinking of you in romantic / sexual ways (e.g., NOT as a friend), which means most of your attraction work is done. Again, a sign that you should probably be pulling sometime soon.

Marty: You didn't mention anything about feeling lonely. (tongue-in-cheek) How insensitive of me not to notice!

This seems to be taking the interaction backwards to me; she was being very sincere and communicating unequivocally that she liked you, but rather than reciprocate you tease her for being lonely. This is one it's pretty easy to get wrong; a lot of the time when you go for being funny, you can actually be punishing the girl for doing something good, and move the interaction in an unfavorable direction. Even if she laughs, the message sinks in: don't show him your soft side, because he's not going to show you his.

A better reaction might be like this:

• SweetRepose: (laughing) The last time a man approached me in a park when I was feeling lonely was in Paris...
  
  Marty: That's a crime. I'm glad I got to put an end to that streak. I just hope I don't look too bad in comparison to that guy from Paris...

Then, in response to her lowering her shield and admitting that 1.) she hasn't been approached in a long time, and 2.) she's thinking of you in a sexual / romantic way, you respond by communicating that 1.) you find her attractive ("That's a crime"), 2.) you're in this together ("glad I put an end to that streak"), and 3.) your shield is down as well ("I just hope I don't look too bad in comparison to that guy from Paris"). Her response is almost universally going to be to qualify you here, and tell you you're way better than that Paris guy, and escalate the vibe even further.

I'd point this one out as potentially a very big missed escalation window here.

She giggles and tells me of a none-too-pleasant experience in Paris. I move her off of that subject and we get into a serious deep-dive. She's very responsive. By this time, among other things, she's told me about her parents, how she was raised, what decision points she's faced in life, which one she faces now. She's told me she's just turned thirty. She's even alluded to issues connected with her finances and property. We've spoken about her love for literature, for movies, for acting. The latter gives me an opening for a very deep question, in preparation for which I grasp her left hand in mine, fingers interlocked. (My right arm is already occupied, being around her shoulders.)

So far, so good, despite some missed windows. She certainly likes you.

SweetRepose: (indicating my grasp with her free hand) This is fast intimacy!

The resistance here is probably from missing earlier escalation windows, and teasing her when she tried to be soft / intimate.

Most likely, she cooled off a little and started thinking of you as more a friendly guy than a potentially sexual / romantic one.

Still, this is one that's easily overcome and set back on the right path.

Marty: (chuckle, then look at her from the corner of my eye, very flirty, with a "seriously??" look) Well, I'm so sorry if you're not used to things happening this fast... (no attempt to move hand or change position whatsoever)

Argh... okay. NO apologizing for moving fast. Only apologize for things you can frame as her chasing after you, NOT as things that frame YOU as chasing after HER.

So, good:

• 
  Marty: Sorry if I left you hanging for a second there - that girl's my buddy's girlfriend.
  
  Marty: Sorry I totally flaked on you on that last date - I REALLY wasn't expecting to have to work late that night.
  
  Marty: Sorry I didn't get you out of there sooner - I know that guy was annoying, I just didn't want to have to come back to pay the tab later and do that all over again.

And, not good:

• 
  Marty: Sorry if I moved too fast.
  
  Marty: Sorry that I kissed you and you weren't ready for it.
  
  Marty: Sorry that I slipped and fell on top of you and we had sex.

etc. That's a ridiculous list, but you get the point. You might THINK you can say it jokingly and get away with it... but, you can't. Chase framing is all about saying jokingly how the girl is chasing after you, and it works. If you joke around about how you're chasing after her, that works too - in the opposite direction. It ups your emotions to and investment in her, and reduces hers in you.

SweetRepose: Of course, if you feel like you need someone to hold hands with right now, that's fine...

She's chase framing you.

Marty: Oh, so I seem like I'm in dire need, now, do I? (phoney sigh) I must have it real bad...

... and you're playing right along.

SweetRepose: (giggling more) But if anyone we knew were to walk past, they'd assume we were "together"...

Marty: I'm not much concerned with what others assume, to tell you the truth!

She throws up a barrier, and you qualify yourself.

At this point, it's shifted quite dramatically from where it was earlier.

Marty: I wouldn't want you to think that all I do is push things as fast as possible, then run away... (she laughs). So I really think we should get a bite to eat, or at least a coffee, some day soon.

But you didn't push things forward quickly. That's problematic, because what you're communicating here is what your expectation of 'fast' is, and if yours is slower than hers, you're instantly boyfriend- or friend-zoned.

If she's met one sexy man in her entire life who managed to sleep with her the day he met her, then a guy telling her he doesn't want to move things too fast by chatting her up and asking her for a phone number looks totally sweet and innocent - in other words, the polar opposite of that guy who wrangled her into bed and gave her a memory she looks back on fondly to this day of.

For this reason, I'd advise you never to say anything about moving "too fast", and if you must apologize for anything, tell her that this is a lot slower than you normally go, and if you're robbing her of a whirlwind romance, you apologize, but you [have this obligation you absolutely cannot break], and you promise you'll pick right up on things where you left last time.

Excite her with the prospect of romance and adventure; don't bore her with the prospect of a plodding nice guy dating routine where she gets flowers and maybe some gentle non-orgasmic sex at the end of Date #7. Make her mind burst with possibilities, instead.

In summary: you're doing good! You're making significant headway, Marty. The biggest thing I think you've got to get out of your way is some of the preconceptions you have about women - that they want to move slow, that they appreciate gentle handling more than they do roughness and passion and aggression, and also that you've got to be witty and on guard - sometimes you want to respond to her lowering her guard by lowering yours as well, and moving things forward together, rather than hanging back in the safer but far less intimate pastures of playful banter.

Chase

 

[PinotNoir]

Okay, so, I told myself, "Don't respond if you have nothing of value to add."

But, damn, I couldn't help it. Chase, that response is so golden. It has illustrated so many things to me in a few paragraphs. I'm really glad I stumbled onto this FR by Marty. Thanks.