LR The note

[Spike]

I think what's really tripping me up though is it's all formed on the premise that the mark of the most advanced seducer is purely in the end result of regularly getting really hot girls

What baffles you about that exactly?

You are not developing your pre hook bantering and flirting skills in any way

I’m not new to pua. I’ve been in the scene for 10 years. In that time I focused a lot on the hook-banter-dhv-sex prizing-comfort. You would probably be very impressed with how much more detailed I was back then when writing lay reports. But was I laying the best girls? Was I getting laid every week with a new girl? Not nearly as often as I am today. Which is why I can say I’m advanced despite my
written reports not looking all that impressive.

But if you want to get a relationship with certain qualities that are much more rare, I really think you need the skill to open a neutral girl and actually seduce her.

As I already explained in the Locario thread. The difficulty with which u get a girl has nothing to do with her relationship skills. You could lay a girl in one date and she’ll be wifey material. You could lay a girl after 3 dates and she turns out to be a horrible person. What comes easy to one person, doesn’t translate what comes easy to another.

 

[Rakehell]

I think what's really tripping me up though is it's all formed on the premise that the mark of the most advanced seducer is purely in the end result of regularly getting really hot girls.

I cant disagree that it isn’t. The end game of seduction isn’t verbal persuasive ability, it’s getting women to sleep with you. Your persuasive ability is a byproduct of that. Hence the “seduction”.

Your physical presentation is just as much a facet of your persuasive ability, as verbal game.

Politicians are fluid speakers but they also wear suits to convey authority and professionalism. They both matter.

They are both tools in the arsenal of things that you do in the hopes of getting the end result that we all want.

Being advanced at anything is typically characterized by how efficiently and effectively you can get the end result of whatever that task may be with the least amount of effort. That defines what being skillful is.

 

[Skills]

I don't see anything I disagree with... Though I do think some purely genetic facial features can look more edgy and masculine than others. It was just tripping me up not seeing any other variables but his face in the initial attraction. But the hair, tats, and clothes were still involved here.

I definitely see the benefit of the whole upfront strategy, especially working 70 hours a week trying to get as efficient as possible given his goal.

I think what's really tripping me up though is it's all formed on the premise that the mark of the most advanced seducer is purely in the end result of regularly getting really hot girls.

I just think that's a very incomplete picture and possibly doing Spike himself a disservice and anyone who emulates to only play screening game for greens and increase your upfront funnel of them.

Because then you are not developing your opening skills in any way.

You are not developing your pre hook bantering and flirting skills in any way.

You are not developing your pre-date screening/qualifying skills in any way.

And same for building attraction through micro escalation. You're only playing from a good layup. You can catch a football very well only if it's perfectly aimed at you, but you can't catch it while running.

Even the yellows you deal with started as a green with a baseline of raw attraction that faltered a bit.

To be fair I think James D also has specific goals that could limit his skill development. Given the relationship setup, he's optimized for one day stands only. He's skilled enough to adapt, but maybe his retention game will be uphill in the future, for example.

Anyways, to me it sounds like Spike is saying the pinnacle of advanced seduction is 90% about looksmaxing.

But this kind of treats girls as interchangeable. If you just want to bang hot girls, then sure just measure as a commodity. But if you want to get a relationship with certain qualities that are much more rare, I really think you need the skill to open a neutral girl and actually seduce her.

So here I see a very advanced fuckboy, not seducer. Given the context of the goal, I have respect and admiration for the work and results. I just also see a lot of wasted potential left on the table by ignoring huge swaths of a seduction skillset. You may see a girl who catches your eye more than anyone else and be forced to watch her walk right by you, helplessly.

Yes lol... I told him that 50 million times...

 

[Skills]

What baffles you about that exactly?

I’m not new to pua. I’ve been in the scene for 10 years. In that time I focused a lot on the hook-banter-dhv-sex prizing-comfort. You would probably be very impressed with how much more detailed I was back then when writing lay reports. But was I laying the best girls? Was I getting laid every week with a new girl? Not nearly as often as I am today. Which is why I can say I’m advanced despite my
written reports not looking all that impressive.

Were you in the same environment??? College town were most dudes are normies and gay restaurant???

As I already explained in the Locario thread. The difficulty with which u get a girl has nothing to do with her relationship skills. You could lay a girl in one date and she’ll be wifey material. You could lay a girl after 3 dates and she turns out to be a horrible person. What comes easy to one person, doesn’t translate what comes easy to another.

Yes

 

[Spike]

Were you in the same environment??? College town were most dudes are normies and gay restaurant???

Environment+looks. When I first got here I wasn’t having as much success as I’m having now post maxing out my upfront game. You put anyone else in this environment that hasn’t maxed out their upfront game and they won’t have as such success as me.

 

[Skills]

Environment+looks. When I first got here I wasn’t having as much success as I’m having now post maxing out my upfront game. You put anyone else in this environment that hasn’t maxed out their upfront game and they won’t have as such success as me.

Again my point is your response you are strawmaning your pre years... But you did not have the knowledge you have now, no the same experience, no the same environment... That is my point you indirectly under minding his argument, but your counter argument doesn't take this things into account... anyways i already explained this to you... Also new environment different i do agree require more fundamentals less structured pre past years... I am trying to make both points.. again i told 100 times you are unnecessarily no connecting with a segment of the forum... I already told you that 50 times... But kj is again indirectly nitpicking making you do that... Anyways i am out of the discussion cause both of you will go in circles and i agree with both of you..

 

[KJ Francis]

What baffles you about that exactly?

Sales vs. Marketing. Very intertwined with common goal, but Franz Liszt or anyone with a hot lead funnel could more "successful" with a sliver of the skill compared to someone who approaches.

The difficulty with which u get a girl has nothing to do with her relationship skills

Of course, but the point is freedom of choice and being able to go get the girls who don't give you blatant approach invitations.

The end game of seduction isn’t verbal persuasive ability

Right, but if you're promoting a party, why would you only use posters (passive)... You are skipping opportunities by not also handing out flyers (active). I guess Spike just doesn't have time and is focused only on efficiency.

I’ve been in the scene for 10 years. In that time I focused a lot on the hook-banter-dhv-sex prizing-comfort

Environment+looks. When I first got here I wasn’t having as much success as I’m having now post maxing out my upfront game.

Now that you discovered a new baseline though my confusion is why not do both and add in approaching??? Just for time efficiency cause you work a lot? That would make sense....

You would probably have better "flip the yellows" game than before.

 

[Spike]

Franz Liszt or anyone with a hot lead funnel could more "successful" with a sliver of the skill compared to someone who approaches

If anyone with a silver of the skill can do what I’m doing. Consistently bang hot girls from cold approach. Why is it so rarely seen? The field reports section would be filled with guys posting their lays with pictures of the hot girls they described in their reports. Faced blurred of course for privacy. But that doesn’t seem the case. Why is that?

Of course, but the point is freedom of choice and being able to go get the girls who don't give you blatant approach invitations

Reread Skills point about him taking greens all day if he could.

But if i can only deal with greens or find angles to be with greens that would be great and advisable or if you can optimize just to deal with greens

Theres more than enough greens to go around that I don’t need to deal with girls that aren’t that into me. By maximizing your upfront game, you increase the pool of girls that will be green for you.

Now that you discovered a new baseline though my confusion is why not do both and add in approaching???

i approach most of the time. This report is literally an example of me approaching a girl lol.

 

[KJ Francis]

If anyone with a silver of the skill can do what I’m doing.

That's not what I'm saying... I'm saying the end result metric is not the measure of an advanced seduction skill set.

Paul McCartney while touring in his 20's could have banged the hottest girl in each city, each night. This does not make him more skilled than a guy who approaches his woman of interest, finds her to be yellow to red, and proceeds to seduce and lay her.

He could have less consistency and even lower quality girls, but still be the more advanced and skilled seducer.

Theres more than enough greens to go around that I don’t need to deal with girls that aren’t that into me

Yes you are saying you have no need to apply a full skill set. Everyone would prefer more greens. But some of us want to go approach that shy yellow girl over there, which requires skill.

In seeking to learn that skill, seduction students seek out the most advanced, skilled seducers. So we don't say "I know exactly who could teach me this... Spike!" Your advice would be to focus on a different girl because the top three hottest girls in a big club would all be interchangeable to meet the goal of getting laid.

That is very different than applying a skill set to the art form of seducing a particular woman.

This report is literally an example of me approaching a girl

Yes a girl who was blatantly checking you out.

I think everything you are doing is awesome. Honestly!! I know you have skill. It just appears you only play the easy sets. If it achieves your goals... Well done.