Ways to transition to sex more deliberately and openly?

[raiden]

What do you think will happen once you actually get into a relationship with a girl and you drop the act that you put on before? And it becomes the "simpy/beta" relationship that you mentioned?

What will the girl think of you when you go from attractive hunk to unattractive junk?

I don't know but I don't think that it matters. GC material was designed to, for example, give an uneducated, economically average guy a chance with a classy, educated woman set to inherit a fortune. What happens when she finds out that he's uneducated and from a different social sphere? That's almost the point! Practically speaking, I shouldn't think so far ahead. I'm very far from getting into a relationship.

 

[KJ Francis]

What happens when she finds out that he's uneducated and from a different social sphere?

She fucks him FAST

 

[StrayDog]

this is the post in question, that I made for you
There was a good deal in there but I didn't really touch on sexual frames. The main point was to get you to have more fun with it, focus on getting some conversational momentum, and being a bit more strategic with your touch.

It seemed like the touching as a reward for compliance stuck out to you and got you some results in field.

I have noticed by your descriptions of dates that you tend to look at women's reactions in a somewhat surface level sort of way. For example, if she is laughing at your jokes or asking a lot of questions, you see that as a sign of interest. Which is true to some degree. Yes she is interested enough to having the convo with you, but that does not necessarily indicate she is finding you seductive or wanting to move forward with things in that sense.

This is why it is important to understand the difference between reactions vs results (@topcat really helped me with this in regards to texting) Her laughing at your joke is a reaction, it simply means she found what you said funny. You making a sexual innuendo and her agreeing with the underlying frame. That's a result.

Her asking a lot of questions, though it shows some interest, is a reaction. She is reacting to the conversation and the things you are saying. Her asking a personal question like "so what do you do for fun", you saying responding "that, kind of personal, come a bit closer and I'll tell you" (gesturing for her to lean in), and she actually leans in. That's a result.

You basically just told her to do something that leads towards more of a sense of intimacy and she complied.

The number one way to be able to gauge how invested she is in being seduced by you is to test for compliance. When you test for compliance it shows you how willing she is to go along with a move when you suggest one.

If she rejects the bid for compliance then you can calibrate from there. "okay she doesn't want to make this move, where do I adjust for here"

that's why you start small at the beginning of the date and keep building compliance. For example when you greet her for the date, you confidently and calmly tell her to bring it in for a hug. It is a reasonable gesture at the start of the date, and she will most likely happily comply as she found you attractive enough to come out with.

Then, when another reasonable moment to ask for compliance arises, you make another bid. For example, she is talking about her dog and you are like "Show me his picture, I know you have one". She has once again complied. A result.

You slowly build up compliance asks until it is reasonable to tell her to scoot closer, or suggest you two go for a walk, or whatever move you make to move the seduction forward, and eventually suggest the pull home.

Each time she complies you reward her with either a genuine compliment "you seem open minded, I like that about you" or your undivided attention for a moment, or intentional touch that is just enough to sink in, then passing. You slowly build more and more of a prescedent of this comply, reward, let things flow naturally, ask for compliance, comply, reward, let things flow naturally, ask for compliance, and so on.

This is true for when you make a subtle sexual innuendo as well, or bring up a topic with sexual undertones. If she agrees with the frame, or engages in the conversation in a way that is positive towards the seduction. That is essentially her complying with an escalation or micro-escalation. This is a result. not a reaction.

So asking for compliance will show you how invested she actually is at a given moment. You just have to start small at build, so that the compliance you are asking for is proportionate to where the momentum of the seduction is at at a given moment.

This will help you start to gauge her actual investment regardless of her reaction. Sure she just laughed at your joke, but does she happily hand you the drink menu when you say "hand me that" (said with chill, easy going tone) or does she offer resistance?

This is how you can get past the appearances of her saying one thing and doing another. Say she says she is really having fun, but won't leave for a walk with you. Well, the compliance you ask for was too big for where she was invested in that moment. So you keep hanging out and looking for compliance in small ways, and once she bites (you get a result), you build from there.

I recently had a same day lay with a gal I met at clothing store. We were hitting it off a bit and I suggested we go grab a drink (right at that moment). She said no. However, I just brushed it off, and she was still hanging out gabbing with me for a good moment longer (not yet invested in a drink, but invested enough to keep chatting, even after a failed attempt to escalate). So, after a moment of convo I looked for a smaller investment " Here help me pick out a shirt real quick". Bingo, she invested. And I kept moving from there.

If I had took her reaction to my suggestion of a drink at face value I would have thought the seduction was over because she said "no". But no was her reaction, the result was that she was still standing and talking to me. So I made another move to see what result I got. Eventually, after getting more and more investment from her in terms of small compliance, as well as her investing in some subtle sexual frames. She herself suggested we get that drink I mentioned and we bounced.

Look for results, not reactions. Test for results by testing for compliance.

"Good" reactions does not immediately mean good results, and "bad" reactions (within reason) does not always mean bad results.

But any time you ask for compliance, or escalate (even just a little), you have to go out on a limb a bit. You have to up the ante just slightly, and risk her not complying.

This is why you start small and build. Until there is enough investment and momentum for bigger bids for compliance. Gradually the conversation gets more sexual, more physical, you can suggest bigger moves. Since she has invested more and more, each next step feels natural and reasonable.


Introduce conversations with slightly sexual undertones to test for sexual compliance. Look for the results, then adjust

@raiden does that feel like a helpful metric for you?

 

[Conquistador]

For the record, my fundamentals may not be poor. I just think that they are. Well, it's the only explanation that fits to me. It's my God given fundamentals. I have an unattractive ethnicity and height. I'm probably not as classically handsome as I'd like to be. But my hairstyle, beard style (clean-shaven for me), body shape and clothing were approved by my dating coaches. My voice was approved, at least within the lessons, by a vocal coach /speech therapist.

Those are just the things that show up in photos

How’s your posture? Your movement? Your voice? Your physical fitness level? Are your clothing choices congruent?

Also, how is your overall emotional wellness? Girls really aren’t all there is to the world. And what point is there to having “just anyone” as a girlfriend? Lots of girls are more trouble than they’re worth.

And while money itself is overrated… if you’re in your 30s, to what extent do you have your shit together?

Apart from that…

Can you explain exactly why you think imitating classic PUA stuff is a good method for you? I’m not convinced it is.

And lastly…you need to get honest about untangling exactly what mental blocks you may have about making moves, and why.

 

[Spyce D]

What do you think will happen once you actually get into a relationship with a girl and you drop the act that you put on before? And it becomes the "simpy/beta" relationship that you mentioned?

What will the girl think of you when you go from attractive hunk to unattractive junk?

So , I was in a situation with this girl for months ... And initially I used to think the same way like what of she finds out that I am uncool / lame .

But , It seems like this whole belief is more harmful than actually being uncool .

 

[Spyce D]

give an uneducated, economically average guy a chance with a classy, educated woman set to inherit a fortune.

It seems like you have a bad self image.

 

[Lover]

Practically speaking, I shouldn't think so far ahead. I'm very far from getting into a relationship.

Yet, this is what you desperately care about in your previous posts. Settling down in a relationship with any girl, even being alright being the one down. And considering it a win.

Maybe I'm just taking your statements too literally and not considering that you are venting and saying things from a place of frustration. But I was hoping to offer some perspective about congruency

So , I was in a situation with this girl for months ... And initially I used to think the same way like what of she finds out that I am uncool / lame .

But , It seems like this whole belief is more harmful than actually being uncool .

For me personally, it's more about being congruent and not actually cool/uncool. That you don't just show all your attractive sides in courtship and become a lazy ass once she's committed.

Well, I may be autistic myself and care more about stuff like this than others

 

[Chase]

I don't know but I don't think that it matters. GC material was designed to, for example, give an uneducated, economically average guy a chance with a classy, educated woman set to inherit a fortune. What happens when she finds out that he's uneducated and from a different social sphere? That's almost the point! Practically speaking, I shouldn't think so far ahead. I'm very far from getting into a relationship.

She fucks him FAST

Yeah, really.

Also as soon as she's in the relationship she starts coming up with justifications for why the guy is actually amazing and why she chose him. The "less" he seems to be compared to the type she usually goes for (or thinks she has to go for) the harder she works to justify how awesome he is.

All that is assuming, of course, he is able to create and keep creating those "this guy is really, really awesome" feelings in the first place, that is...


@raiden,

I wrote a step-by-step deep nuance mechanical-detail-level post on sexual escalation here:

Tactics Tuesdays: Sexual Escalation Script

What steps should you follow to get to sex with a girl? This sexual escalation script lays it all out, down to the timing of each move needed to bed a girl. We’ve got a guy over on the forum who’s struggled to make things sexual with girls. He’s a mechanical learner who can follow rules but has...

www.girlschase.com

I hope it helps.

(and now I am probably going to take a break from writing "deep technical" stuff for a bit. Even for me writing this kind of stuff is exhausting...)

Chase

 

[KJ Francis]

Yeah, really.

Also as soon as she's in the relationship she starts coming up with justifications for why the guy is actually amazing and why she chose him. The "less" he seems to be compared to the type she usually goes for (or thinks she has to go for) the harder she works to justify how awesome he is.

All that is assuming, of course, he is able to create and keep creating those "this guy is really, really awesome" feelings in the first place, that is...


@raiden,

I wrote a step-by-step deep nuance mechanical-detail-level post on sexual escalation here:

Tactics Tuesdays: Sexual Escalation Script

What steps should you follow to get to sex with a girl? This sexual escalation script lays it all out, down to the timing of each move needed to bed a girl. We’ve got a guy over on the forum who’s struggled to make things sexual with girls. He’s a mechanical learner who can follow rules but has...

www.girlschase.com

I hope it helps.

(and now I am probably going to take a break from writing "deep technical" stuff for a bit. Even for me writing this kind of stuff is exhausting...)

Chase

Godsend indeed!!! I've definitely developed intuition with pulling and flirting, but this will be a big help. Looking forward to reviewing and applying!

Also very nice when you hear "you didn't check any of my boxes" in bed.