what makes someone advanced?

[naturalmikey]

i’m kind of torn on whether to define myself by intermediate or advanced. compared to most guys who describe themselves as intermediate i feel like i’m light years ahead of. yet i still have trouble viewing myself as advanced. it just feels like i could be so much better than i am now. so i’m just curious. what is the metric(s) to being advanced?

 

[Space]

@naturalmikey, please keep in mind my context is that my advice comes from a perspective that your higher ranking than me on the boards probably fairly represents your skill level to me.

That said, here's what I think about your thread. Many suggest that you should master two from the four options of day game, night game, online, and social circle game. I think it's a good idea. You've chosen night and online, me day and night. If you want to move to advanced, and don't forget this comes from someone beginner to mid-intermediate, how about still giving day game a shoot? You repeat the mantra to ad infinitum phone numbers don't work. Well, how about modifying it to something like phone numbers don't work for me yet but it seems to work for others so if I have at least the curiously maybe I can make them work for myself as well?

You've recommended me Alex Social. Or at least mentioned him and I've found him relatable.

So Alex had the idea to mage a day game product. He has small team of coaches and shooting the footage for the product it turned out Alex himself was the worst at day game. But heck, he though, If I want a day game product out with my name on it at least I should be able do day game decently, right? So he went to it and and made it happen. He came up with some interesting ideas for phone/texting (pardon, that's messaging for me) game and dates I haven't thought of. That probably none of us here have though of.

 

[Velasco]

Able to SNL girls that view you as barely fuckable with decent consistency (fuck 1 in 4 MAYBE girls).

Lay count is irrelevant.
SNLing girls that are very into you right from the get-go (YES girls) (regardless of their looks. Some hot girls can make it extremely easy for you if you are their type) is a feat that can be accomplished by intermediates (even beginners (tho they are less consistent). Intermediates struggle with MAYBE girls (whether it's not knowing how to make her horny, running outta things to say, overescalating, missing windows of opportunities). Advanced guys welcome them. As they present them with an opportunity to run some actual game on them.

 

[naturalmikey]

@Space i exaggerate how bad numbers are. it’s that you need a lot of them. i’ve done enough day game to know i don’t care much for it. i get laid from social circle fairly regularly too. but yeah night game and online are definitely my forte.

@Velasco i thought long and hard before replying. because i suspected my game was better a couple years ago. mostly because my verbals were so good. a product of study and a lot of long sets. and two years ago i probably was closing 1/4 maybe girls.

but when i think back a lot of the reason i got a lot of maybe girls is because i wasn’t getting many yes girls. now that i’m getting more yes girls, and also consistently hotter girls i’m less likely to spend time in longer sets with maybe girls because i find it unnecessary.

however on paper my results have went up. and i’m not sure if me having less success with maybe girls means i have worse game or the fact that i get more yes girls means my game has gotten better. an argument could probably be made for either.

what i think it means is that my verbals were advanced then, which admittedly they no longer are. but i was also getting more shit tests and having more difficult sets than now. i think that is a product of me now having much better inner game and body langu age. i remember thinking and internalizing in june 2018 that no matter what happens in life i know i’ve got the woman problem handled and everything became much easier.

basically i think you confirmed what i suspected. that i am not advanced i just have the results that high level internalized inner game produces. but my putter game is still intermediate. as to where before my inner game was intermediate and my outter game was advanced. i think it’s time to hit the ground running and put the two pieces together. thank you

 

[naturalmikey]

never seen any proof of anybody being able to do that, nevermind 1 in 4!! haha

(youtube infields and even LR's here seem to confirm)

maybe girls aren’t that difficult if you put in time, keep talking, and possibly day two. 1/4 overall could be impossible or not that hard just based on looks and being cool. but yeah 1/4 maybe girls given enough time isn’t that crazy to me. maybe it is to you. but we are not the same.

 

[flatron]

maybe girls aren’t that difficult if you put in time, keep talking, and possibly day two. 1/4 overall could be impossible or not that hard just based on looks and being cool. but yeah 1/4 maybe girls given enough time isn’t that crazy to me. maybe it is to you. but we are not the same.

Yeah. I mean maybe my definition of a 'no girl' is different to other peoples. I approach tonnes of girls who are hard, instant 'no girls' where, not matter what you say, they honestly don't give a sh1t and just walk away/grab their friends wrist etc lol. Doesn't matter whose 'model' you run. They simply aren't attracted

Saw this vid yesterday on reddt lol. I consider even these girls only bordeline 'no' (I've had many worse reactions that that from legit 'no girls'. I approach many 'no girls' each night who, even with the best game on planet earth would never be attracted

If you watch infield, you see people bang 'yes girls' and, get the occasional 'maybe girl'. Same as lay reports, tbh

Never ever a 'no girl' since he was never on her radar 'sexually'.

edit: I maybe misread velasco's post? I read it as him saying advanced guys can bang 'no girls' (Deleted that post)

Yes, people can bang 'maybe girls'.


Although I still stand by it because 'barely fuckable' is more of a 'no girl' than a 'maybe girl' in my eyes tbh. I've never seen of heard of anyone being able to do that in the real world. Never in an infield.

 

[naturalmikey]

i ignored the thinks i'm barely fuckable part because i don't think any girls think that about me lol. plus what does barely fuckable even mean? it’s just ambiguous pua talk. it’s like everything has to be confusing because puss are so good at nuance lol. but it’s just the way the community is. you can’t really fault people for being part of a culture

anyway, on to todd. i never liked todd much. and i hated that rsd would coach to stay in sets like these. those to me are "hard no" girls. i don't know why anyone would waste their time. if you watch julien's infield a lot of the girls are maybe girls. plus his ability to open chicks and girls to be yes instantly was super impressive. i think that's one thing @Velasco missed is that a big part of having great game is having a lot of girls who are just "yes" off the open. I know that used to never happen for me and now it does a lot.

i honestly don't even know if i want advanced verbal game. i think my inner game is advanced. i don't want to have to persuade through deliberate suggestion. i had a contrived game for a while and it was cool. but it felt manipulative. i think i'm gonna stick with a hybrid leaning natural style. since switching to it the girls i get are consistently hotter than when i had a verbal focus. plus it just feels like i'm being myself. i guess i'm not getting as many maybe girls. but who needs em? and if she doesn't like my natural self why should i care?

 

[flatron]

Yeah, i'm not a fan of Todd's game, tbh (I find his verbals cringey for one) but even I feel a bit sorry for him, as that vid went kinda viral, and now everyone online is spamming his vids, giving him grief! Laughing at him, calling him an incel etc lol

But he had the balls too approach them

But yeah, even though i've approached tougher 'no girls' - most nights, in fact (who, despite a confident open with good body language gave me a much worse reception than that set!) they were still 'no girls', i'd say - And nothing he could have said or done would have got him laid with them. He could study game for a million years and it wouldn't change the outcome

Julien has infields with 'no girls', too. They end up in his 'rejection compilation'. One from memory ended up in a youtube vid about 'plowing' (but he still obviously didn't get her. He probably just wasn't her physical type)

I tend to know within maybe 5 seconds whether I have a shot with a girl or not. I can literally see it in her eyes lol

 

[Velasco]

Don't know why you guys are talking about NO girls. When my post was specifically on YES and MAYBE girls...

• Girl views you as very fuckable (YES) = the way you view a girl whose a 8-9 in your eyes. You'd definitely want to fuck her right from the get-go.
• Girl views you as barely fuckable (MAYBE) = the way you view a girl whose a 6-7. You'd fuck her but you're not TOO crazy about her.
• Girl views you as unfuckable (NO) = the way you view a girl whose's below a 6. You'd never fuck her. And nothing she says or does is gonna change your mind.

Now are there cases where you wouldn't fuck a 8-9? yeah. she's boring as fuck, too stupid to understand your jokes, you can tell she's a BPD. BUT there are still guys out there who'd, despite the red flags, still fuck her (because its not everyday you run into a hot girl who doesn't immediately tell you to fuck off as an average looking dude). because HOT.

Just like there are girls who wouldn't fuck a guy they think is hot because he anti-games himself out of a guaranteed lay. And girls who'd still fuck hot guys despite them being boring and stupid (because they don't usually (if ever) get to sleep with guys of that caliber).

An advanced player is just someone who in addition to getting YES girl can also bed MAYBE girls with good consistency. Having them go from, "he's cute" -> "oh he's funny too!" -> "oh he's different" -> "he gets me" -> "he's turning me on" -> "take me home."

He seduced her. That's why you (not anyone specific) feel funny calling yourself a "seducer" when all you really do is hook up with girls who fuck you despite you not doing anything special. An advanced player is someone who loves the manipulative aspect of the game. The tactics. The chess moves. That love for the game is what motivates him to want to get those girls who give him a challenge. Whereas guys who just wanna get laid will eject from those sets. Its really in these challenging sets where you become an advanced seducer (you ask yourself what could have done better? what could I've said instead? I liked that topic we talked about. How can I find a way to make it come up in my next conversation? I liked that story I told her but how can I tweak it to make it sound better?)

 

[flatron]

Don't know why you guys are talking about NO girls. When my post was specifically on YES and MAYBE girls...

My bad because I took 'barely fuckable' to be a 'no girl'. I still do in fact lol. But just a difference in terms of definitions

An advanced player is just someone who in addition to getting YES girl can also bed MAYBE girls with good consistency. Having them go from, "he's cute" -> "oh he's funny too!" -> "oh he's different" -> "he gets me" -> "he's turning me on" -> "take me home."

if a girl thinks i'm cute, i'm nearly always gonna bang her lol

 

[naturalmikey]

@Velasco i think he misunderstood is why he was talking about no girls. do you not think getting to a point where you start getting a lot of yes girls due to inner game, body language, posture... being advanced to though. or do you only consider game if you’re manipulating people? i only find verbal game to be one aspect of game. physical game is another aspect, and probably my weakest point. but if you’ve got serious physical game my hats off to you. for me it’s all about inner game and verbals. mostly inner game at this point. i think there are more variables than just verbal manipulation.

fyi i’m just trying to have a discussion, not discredit you. just let me know if you’re triggered and i won’t have discussions with you anymore. i don’t want to get banned and i see you are a tribal elder. i’m just not sure who’s open to discussion yet.

 

[naturalmikey]

if a githinks i'm cute, i'm basically always gonna bang her lol

yeah dude you’re new school i am too. that’s actually inner game. you know your can fuck so you act accordingly and she buys in. i’m not much into the whole manipulation stuff but i used to be. it definitely works, even on maybe girls. most of the newer guys here use old school style game to hypnotize women. just is what it is. they’re not wrong it works and better than what we’re doing honestly.

 

[flatron]

[

most of the newer guys here use old school style game to hypnotize women.

lol

 

[naturalmikey]

[

lol

not a joke. it’s called neuro linguistic programming (nlp) they’re new here but a lot have been around for over a decade. nlp was debunked because the science behind it was wrong. but it still works. modern marketing is based on it. a lot of the structure in the way i speak is based on it. but nlp guys will memorize long stories and stack them back to back. it seems contrived to me. but i guess it’s effective.

 

[naturalmikey]

@flatron here is an example of an nlp pattern. i use this one all the time and it's awesome. i often send it in texts. girls think it's hillarious. it's by swinggcat

You remind me of Bugsy. (Let the girl ask, “Who is Bugsy?”)
Bugsy was my bunny rabbit when I was a kid. I loved him to
death. My baby sister wanted a pet of her own. But my mom told her that
she was too young. So one day while I was at school, she snapped
Bugsy’s neck.
My mom decided to replace the dead bunny, hoping I wouldn’t notice.
The first thing I did when I got home from school was play with Bugsy.
He looked different. His silky white fur turned grey and mangy. His plump
little body looked supermodel thin. I picked Bugsy up to cuddle with him
and he bit me. My eyes welled up with tears and I carped, “Mom, what
happened to Bugsy?”
She explained, “Sometimes you get old, life is a bitch.

 

[Velasco]

My bad because I took 'barely fuckable' to be a 'no girl'. I still do in fact lol. But just a difference in terms of definitions

Above the looks threshold. Your above the point where she'd fuck you....barely lol.

if a girl thinks i'm cute, i'm nearly always gonna bang her lol

if by nearly you mean you don't count those times where you had a girl that was feeling you but you say something stupid, ran out of things to say, overescalated, tried to pull her out the club after making out with her/playing with pussy without building a connection only to get "I can't leave my friends/give me your number instead"....then yeah.

do you not think getting to a point where you start getting a lot of yes girls due to inner game, body language, posture... being advanced to though.

I don't think of that as advanced. I think of that as being an indicator that you're much better at identifying YES girls than when you first started approaching girls.

for me it’s all about inner game and verbals. mostly inner game at this point. i think there are more variables than just verbal manipulation.

Inner game is part of fundamentals. Verbals and physical (but to a less extent) is game.

 

[naturalmikey]

Above the looks threshold. Your above the point where she'd fuck you....barely lol.


if by nearly you mean you don't count those times where you had a girl that was feeling you but you say something stupid, ran out of things to say, overescalated, tried to pull her out the club after making out with her/playing with pussy without building a connection only to get "I can't leave my friends/give me your number instead"....then yeah.



I don't think of that as advanced. I think of that as being an indicator that you're much better at identifying YES girls than when you first started approaching girls.



Inner game is part of fundamentals. Verbals and physical (but to a less extent) is game.

interesting. i don’t think i agree with you but i understand your logic. also if you’re one of the people that users aren’t allow to disagree with let me know and i won’t disagree with you any further.

 

[Velasco]

Gunwitch on Inner game

for strong internal frame answer these 4 questions:

• Do you understand that women wanna fuck you - so you approaching is a value to her.
• Can you see this as a fun hobby - can you see this as a game you play to get better with women. Its not life or death its a game.
• Do you really get it — that everything going on in your head right now is just neurons chemicals and electricity. if your healthy and uninjured you will get back to ok condition no matter what. so you may as well get back to ok condition when anything bad happens as soon as you can, instead of dwelling on bad things.
• Are you in this game for validation or for sex — try for the women you really want.

No I don't consider this 'game'. But a prerequisite to run game.

 

[Velasco]

if you’re one of the people that users aren’t allow to disagree with let me know and i won’t disagree with you any further.

Lmao. nah you good

 

[flatron]

I think people like Julien are about as good as one can get at game. And I think he pulls about the same percetage of 'yes girls' and 'maybe girls' as most of us do, tbh. He also gets rejected 'a tonne' (in his words)