White knight trauma in daygame

[Narrator]

So this is like one of the worst white knight situations I had that made me scared to do more daygame. So I was gaming in a city in Poland and this happened:-

Me:- "Hey excuse me, do you speak English?"
Girl:- "Yeah"
*it took me 10 seconds to say my opener because of anxiety*
Me:- "I saw you and I wanted to talk to you. You seem like a student."
Girl:- "No, I actually work"
*girl starts waking away*
Me:- "Oh I see. Is it marketing?"
Girl:- "Sorry I have to go"
Me:- "Can't we talk for just a minute?" (smile)
Girl:- "No, I have to go"
Me:- "Just 5 minutes"
Girl:- "Sorry"
*I eject*

Now before someone says I was being too pushy, I did not in any way touch her and I was standing at a proper distance away from her and my voice was normal but loud and confident. She could leave at any moment she wanted and just ignore me but she didn't. I did this approach in a very busy street. However, I didn't know there was this old Polish guy sitting just few metres away who was paying attention to my approach. After the girl left, he shouted at me and said:-

"WHAT DO YOU WANT? WHAT DO YOU WANT?"

I looked at him in an annoyed way and said "What's your problem?" and went away. However, he shouted at me in a busy street and it has kinda traumatised me.

I do want to say that I have done many approaches and I have gotten instant dates and even day 2 normal dates. So I don't think I was doing anything bad. How is it my fault if the girl isn't leaving? Its not like I am physically constraining her. She can leave whenever she wants. I do not understand why these white knights have a problem with me just speaking politely to a girl. I didn't even say anything vulgar. I didn't put this in my journal in this site because I don't like writing about negative experiences, I just wanna remember the positive experiences. I saw on Instagram one another guy (who is black) had an old Polish guy following him for gaming in Poland and told him to leave the country.

So anyway, have any of you guys been through this? How do you still push-through? Any strategies you have to avoid white knights? Should I go indirect?

 

[average_daygamer]

Poland is well known for day gamers and it would appear the old chap had seen it before.

The opener

"excuse me, do you speak English"

Is notorious.

I would just speak in English and assume she speaks it.

You haven't done a wrong thing so don't worry!

 

[OldGuy]

While I would not have said anything, I would have wondered what you wanted too. Were you trying to take a poll and checking her category? You need to either go more direct or more indirect. You could ask for directions somewhere (nearest coffee shop and then asked if she would like to get some too for example). Also, you should have dropped the approach when she started to walk away.

 

[Narrator]

While I would not have said anything, I would have wondered what you wanted too. Were you trying to take a poll and checking her category? You need to either go more direct or more indirect. You could ask for directions somewhere (nearest coffee shop and then asked if she would like to get some too for example). Also, you should have dropped the approach when she started to walk away.

Bro the old guy definitely knew what I wanted. He was basically creep-shaming me. Anyway, so I should not plough if the girl is walking away? It happened to me in a nightclub that a girl was walking away and I kept ploughing (being unreactive to her walking away and just kept speaking) and she stayed with me.

 

[Aussiedude]

I noticed when I was in Europe there were way more crazy kind of old people lol.

I haven't approached enough to say for certain, but I think a situation like this is very rare. Just gotta take it on the chin and get on with it. Reading and listening to more experienced day gamers, I've never heard of a situation like this happening. So I think you really did just get unlucky.

I looked at him in an annoyed way and said "What's your problem?"

tbh that's pretty funny. Like, what do you want bitch? Kudos for basically telling the old cunt to fuck off and mind his business.

For me personally, if I open and she just starts walking off, I take it that she's not interested at all and leave it at that. I feel like if a chick walks away after your opener it's a very strong signal she aint interested. I wouldn't push it after that.

 

[Aussiedude]

Bro the old guy definitely knew what I wanted. He was basically creep-shaming me. Anyway, so I should not plough if the girl is walking away? It happened to me in a nightclub that a girl was walking away and I kept ploughing (being unreactive to her walking away and just kept speaking) and she stayed with me.

Also I think the dynamics at night is a little different. I think you have more leeway to pursue in a bar or club like you've described. But if it's a total cold approach in the day time. I would be more conservative. But maybe more experienced guys would disagree.

 

[Chase]

@Narrator,

You're correct, that's creep-shaming behavior.

More to the point, it is "dogpiling onto the guy who's tripping up" behavior. Same thing bullies do in school.

Had your interaction been like this, the guy would never have spoken up:

YOU: Hey, do you speak English?​

​

HER: Yeah.​

​

YOU: Oh cool. I'm new in town and a little lost. I could use a few pointers from someone who looks like she's probably plugged into the scene if you wouldn't mind.​

​

HER: Okay, what did you need?​

The guy would NOT jump in in that case because you'd come across cool, centered, and in-control.

On your actual opener you were clearly fumbling around a bit. That's totally normal when you're new. It was just bum luck you had a guy with a bug up his ass nearby who decided to dogpile after the interaction.

You might want to try running with some fairly scripted openers / first few lines, just to have something to bite on while you get your confidence up.

When you are new, you should NOT be doing any of this:

Girl:- "Sorry I have to go"
Me:- "Can't we talk for just a minute?" (smile)
Girl:- "No, I have to go"
Me:- "Just 5 minutes"
Girl:- "Sorry"
*I eject*

No:

• Pleas for more time
• Repeated pleas after the first pleas are rebuffed
• Too-large asks for the level of compliance escalation

Persistence is good; pleading is not.

"Five more minutes" works very well for a girl you have hooked who is into you and doesn't really want to leave you but thinks she should logically or her friends are pulling her away. It's terrible for a girl who hasn't hooked and isn't feeling you yet. Save it for girls you have hooked.

For now, I would skip the plowing on girls you have not hooked yet.

Your focus needs to be on building positive reference experiences.

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Skip the risky "blow me or blow me out" stuff for once you're good.

If you skip that stuff, this kind of dogpiling/bullying won't happen because you won't create any openings for it to.

Chase

 

[YS.]

Have a lot of experiences with this OP. There are many ways around this but the biggest thing I could tell you is make sure go to the same place soon and approach ASAP, do not let the trauma linger. That's the most important tip. Also no matter what it is instead of calling it "trauma", you can start calling it "a weird and funny experience"; that you just ran into a lame "player hater". It will shift how you view the experience, words matter. I also would never ever continue after she clearly said she wasn't interested, I'm kinda on the guy's side honestly. She had to reject you like 4 times when you said you were super anxious. Probably a bad experience for her also.

I could write so much about this but what I wrote is the most important thing. I had a girl I had an insta-date with saw me flirt with a girl on the street and straight up spazzed out on me when 100 people were looking. It was weird because she was kind of testing my frame in the beginning 20 seconds, I got defensive and apologetic then she started getting more and more intense.

The easier said than done solution is to hold your frame and call him out on his bullshit because when he senses you're solid it wouldn't escalate. Also if you could own what you're doing this wouldn't have affected you as much, imagine if you were doing a survey and he yelled WHAT ARE YOU DOING?, you would be like WTF IS YOUR PROBLEM, I'M DOING A SURVEY... If he continued, without being confrontational, you'd just leave thinking "what a fucking weirdo"...

So deep down this comes down to a mix of you thinking PU is weird, approaching is not normal, a combination of status anxiety (you don't have status in the environment to access hot girls and an alpha male will kill you if they notice you going after them) and lack of entitlement/esteem. So you're thinking if people listened to both of you; they'd agree with the guy over you, and thinking you can't defend yourself/are helpless in that situation.

On another point, you need to learn how to handle male confrontation in life. Handling it doesn't mean, you have to fight people or get into verbal confrontations but how to de-escalate/bounce without losing frame. I'd just be happy you got the opportunity to get lessons from. We're trying to be attractive to women, doing that without being able to handle male confrontations is like an oxymoron. I wouldn't want my daughter dating someone who can't handle a retarded dude yelling at him. Again you don't have to be "an alpha", you just have to be able to walk away with just thinking "what a fucking retard". Just view it as a male rejection. Rsd tyler had a recent video where a homeless guy came into his video shouting get the fuck out and he was just chill. In a couple minutes, they became friends.

So...

1. Don't continue after you're rejected especially if you're out of state. This would have fixed this situation but not the core problem.
2. Learn how to own what you are doing. Do something you can own or be resourceful enough that you don't care what others think. Have a frame around what you're doing you can fully own and defend.
3. Learn how to handle male confrontations.

Props for approaching and committing to the set. This is a deep topic honestly. I try to not engage in forum conversations but this one felt home.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

As someone that has gone fully “blow me or blow me out”, since I was a total beginner, I will fully agree with Chase here.

In fact I wish I had come across this advice earlier in my gaming life, because when I was starting everything I was coming across was about how to believe in your value, persist and plow through resistance.

Anyway I won’t get into details about my experiences, some of them are in my journal if you are really interested, but it does teach you some things.

Basically, having people actively intervene when you approach is very rare, and most of the times you have to obviously bother a girl quite a bit for them to act.

The situation you are describing is something that can be traumatizing but it is important to realise that you were totally not at fault here. A bit uncalibrated which gave the guy the opportunity to shame you, but you shouldn’t feel bad about what you did.

I believe the best way to push through and ignore such scenarios, apart from becoming smoother, is to truly believe in the superiority of your frame. Meaning that you know what you are doing is right no matter what some random person says.

And really it is, you are just a free man, approaching a free woman with good intentions. If someone tries to shame you for that it’s their problem with how they view the world.

Of course through this pay attention to what you are doing exactly and how you are coming off. Because you also want to be improving the way you are perceived by the women you approach and in general.

That said, if you really want the best for the women you are approaching, these random white knights are simply people that are misunderstanding you. No need to explain anything to them or engage, you just know they don’t realise how beautiful what you are doing is.

 

[Chase]

To add to @YS.:

There are many ways around this but the biggest thing I could tell you is make sure go to the same place soon and approach ASAP, do not let the trauma linger. That's the most important tip.

This is what they do with fighter pilots.

A fighter pilot who has a near miss or a bad flight, as soon as the guy is settled they put him right back in the plane and send him up again.

If he stays on the ground too long after the incident that shook him up, every day he's on the ground the higher the odds go that he simply cannot go back into the air again.

You need new, fresh memories where nothing bad occurred to immediately supplant that bad one so the bad one is not the last memory you have.

Otherwise, the bad one remains the freshest, most recent one, and is the first thing you think of every time you think, "I should go and talk to that girl."

Chase

 

[ChrisXKiss]

To add to @YS.:



This is what they do with fighter pilots.

A fighter pilot who has a near miss or a bad flight, as soon as the guy is settled they put him right back in the plane and send him up again.

If he stays on the ground too long after the incident that shook him up, every day he's on the ground the higher the odds go that he simply cannot go back into the air again.

You need new, fresh memories where nothing bad occurred to immediately supplant that bad one so the bad one is not the last memory you have.

Otherwise, the bad one remains the freshest, most recent one, and is the first thing you think of every time you think, "I should go and talk to that girl."

Chase

To add to this you also realise how totally disconnected one interaction from the other is.

I have always tried to immediately go and approach again even if I had the worst rejection of the day, and most of the times you see that the next girl treats you way better.

It can be surreal, you can get a number close from a girl a minute after another girl ignored you hard like you were the lowest value life form she had seen in her life.

There are two things I would pay attention doing that.

Firstly, check that before the next approach you collect yourself a bit and don’t go in fully emotional from the previous one, because you risk pilling up on negative experiences.

Secondly, check that you approach somewhere that your previous interaction was not noticed by bystanders, it could even be few meters down the road in a busy street. This helps, because there are no people around that saw you getting rejected once and then think you are not getting it and just bothering women, so they have to white knight themselves in.

Sooner or later you realise that it really is a numbers game and these kind of interactions are not the ones worth focusing on.

 

[Aussiedude]

To add to this you also realise how totally disconnected one interaction from the other is.

I have always tried to immediately go and approach again even if I had the worst rejection of the day, and most of the times you see that the next girl treats you way better.

It can be surreal, you can get a number close from a girl a minute after another girl ignored you hard like you were the lowest value life form she had seen in her life.

There are two things I would pay attention doing that.

Firstly, check that before the next approach you collect yourself a bit and don’t go in fully emotional from the previous one, because you risk pilling up on negative experiences.

Secondly, check that you approach somewhere that your previous interaction was not noticed by bystanders, it could even be few meters down the road in a busy street. This helps, because there are no people around that saw you getting rejected once and then think you are not getting it and just bothering women, so they have to white knight themselves in.

Sooner or later you realise that it really is a numbers game and these kind of interactions are not the ones worth focusing on.

This 100%

I had two pretty hard rejections in a row the other day. Both completely blew me off, I felt like a complete loser after them. I went to the nearest park and lay down for an hour with my hat over my eyes and took a nap.

After, I approached again, and this time had a really good chat with this Colombian girl and got her insta. Since it was a good interaction overall. I actually ended the day on a high. Even though I got rejected pretty harshly twice before.

It's a real mind fuck actually. Where you can speak to one girl and she looks at you like you're some kind of idiot. And then the next girl thinks you're the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Adventurer]

Just my 2c, I'm not even sure that guy was creep-shaming you. I was in Poland recently and there are a lot of old alcoholic guys who will just talk to anyone in the street. It also happened to me, the guy was not a white knight, just a weird dude asking for some of my french fries

It's possible it was really a white knight situation, but I wouldn't take it personally because he might just have been a creepy old dude with too much vodka in his veins

 

[KnownUniverse]

Poland is well known for day gamers and it would appear the old chap had seen it before.

The opener

"excuse me, do you speak English"

Is notorious.

I would just speak in English and assume she speaks it.

You haven't done a wrong thing so don't worry!

could also be racism, does it happen to white folk? i saw a video in poland of an indian dude with a polish partner getting abused by an american dude in a supermarket.

 

[Bill]

Try and find something funny about it and reframe it as comedic.