Why a "quality" girl is a myth...

[Will_V]

Great thread @DoWhatWorks, enjoying reading all the comments.

Now that I'm getting closer to wanting to start a family I've been thinking about what kind of woman would suit that job. At some level I do believe seduction can set you up in the wrong frame if you are not careful, because let's face it the women who are most fun to seduce and lay are often not the most stable lol.

@DoWhatWorks I definitely agree with your point about compatibility, there is absolutely a level at which two people can click that is not about logic at all. It's as if all the subcommunication that normally is half wasted makes it through without effort, and you two are on your own wavelength. Haven't looked deeply into how this works yet. I agree that it provides a level of effortlessly gained value that outweighs a lot of the typical criteria.

As far as selection criteria for an LTR or mother, the only one that I've nailed down as being worthwhile is her parent situation - if her parents are together and stable, AND she has a good relationship with them, I believe this greatly increases the likelihood that she will choose loyalty under trying circumstances. Because at the end of the day the primary role models, the ones who shape a person's identity when young, and who provide a sort of reference point for making difficult choices, are the parents.

The rest of the typical red pill criteria is very ambiguous for me, I think a lot of them are filler answers to make the red pillers look like they are being studious.

Okay let’s get real here. Nobody wants to accept it but all relationships have an end date... whether you get with a quality woman or not

Not saying that you shouldn’t value relationships or be pessimistic about it but realize that one day that beautiful, supportive and sexy woman is going to leave you

You can have the best relationship management skills in the world, be super high value, be the perfect man but she will still leave. Either through death or with her own two feet. And there’s nothing you can really do about it

This fact of life is extremely important for seducers. Because, maybe it’s our massive egos but a lot of us think… oh she will never leave me because I have game and she's a quality woman

Pure BS

Because even if she stays with you physically there is a very high chance she will check out emotionally and sexually at some point or you yourself will grow bored of her

I mean use some logic here. If you meet your "quality woman" when you're both 30, in 25 years you'll both be 55. Do you really think that you can go from tons of abundance fucking hot women to now being committed to fucking a 55 year old?

There's a reason why older men leave their old wives and then get with younger women. If normies do it all the time then what makes us seducers think we will act different?

Now some of you will say, but it won't be about sex at that point and I can still fuck other women on the side. But then what is the point of being with your quality woman then? Why not let the relationship run it's natural course and then you both find someone that matches your current needs?

It's pretty crazy when I think about it. Because we have dudes in the community that talk all about forever commitment yet they can't be committed to anyone themselves. Almost like we don't pay attention to how we really behave and hold on to these odd ideals

I honestly think the best approach is to accept relationships for what they are. Enjoy them, make tons of dope memories, have lots of crazy passionate sex, maybe even pop out some mini me's with a woman or women you really click with.

And remember that no matter how quality your woman is now, at some point she may not be quality anymore.... and it's okay because there are plenty more quality women where she came from

That's an interesting take and I agree with the sentiment of it, however I have yet to see many guys at the other end of the journey - in their 50s or 60s, with kids - who look at it in this way.

I would like things to be like this, where I simply rotate women in and out of my life temporarily, but I don't know if the human brain is typically wired to facilitate it. Especially once kids and family are involved, I've seen that the things that orchestrate a man's values and the reference point of how he judges himself can shift very fast, and later on the memories and experiences of his family become such an integral part of his identity that the idea of replacing them with new ones is simply not satisfying to him - he does not want to wash them away any more than someone would want to wash away the memories of a happy childhood.

 

[James Cruse]

The unreliable nature (from a man's perspective) of women is something that seems to be discussed by every culture on earth, every religion, and every philosophy that touches on it.

And this is the NORM for all girls, not some exception like BPD girls.

Like I said in my comment earlier - this is why you put those frames and my standards on her from the beginning and see if accepts them and rises to the expectation of those standards.

Looking into her (current) life and past as Due Diligence is the only other thing you can really do to get a great snapshot of what her future with you will look like.

The Black Pill takes this to an extreme. No woman can be trusted, thus never get into a relationship.

I feel like PUA circles just don't want to deal with this inconvenient truth, directly. We deal with it indirectly by having the skill set, by having MLTRs or other alternate arrangements, but we barely speak on it.

My experience has been that a woman can hide her bad behaviour (assuming you’re setting your standards & frames) for only a short time before you discover it, especially when you meet them with their family and/or friends.

I think alot of men when their wife or LTR Girlfriends “changed” wasn’t that his wife actually changed, it was that they finally revealed the ENTIRETY of their true selves that had been spilling out in small parts since you’ve known her but didn’t pay much attention to.

I disagree - there are plenty of things a man can do that women respond to on a biological level that do “keep” a woman coming back - unpredictable, Pre-selection (from other women - ALWAYS throughout the relationship) an actual emotional connection, resources, lack of fear and weakness-based behaviours - it’s more a matter of her (sunken cost) investment, her continually being surprised by you (why women “love” men with a sense of humour) and you being her best option.

The question then remains when you are her best option - is she your best option?

Yes, women change their minds all the time but women as a gender are still very predictable when you get to know them.

 

[James Cruse]

As far as selection criteria for an LTR or mother, the only one that I've nailed down as being worthwhile is her parent situation - if her parents are together and stable, AND she has a good relationship with them, I believe this greatly increases the likelihood that she will choose loyalty under trying circumstances. Because at the end of the day the primary role models, the ones who shape a person's identity when young, and who provide a sort of reference point for making difficult choices, are the parents.

I look for alot more nuances in the parents situation to disqualify or qualify a woman as a potential long term partner.

From my experience, I’ve ended so many situationships or stopped dating women because her parents were divorced or because I met her married parents and did things I didn’t like:

1. Her mum was bossy towards her dad, especially openly in front of me, their daughters boyfriend. Very bad sign.

2. The father was hen-pecked and always going out and running errands for his wife or cleaning up the house when she wasn’t doing anything and the husband was the primary breadwinner. Another bad sign this girl I’m dating is going to be painful.

3. When the two parents are together but they don’t like each other and are together for finances or just for the kids. It’s the same as having divorced parents. Girl has usually harbouring toxic latent beliefs about men she’s heard many times from her frustrated angry mother behind her dads back.

4. Women who have parents where the mother is clearly a gold digger.

5. Where my girlfriend implies that her mother has definately cheated on her dad but he doesn’t care. Or when she says her mother loves to go out to many functions or what are essentially upmarket parties without her husband.

6. When the parents are still married but the father is a loser who barely works and is not really involved in his kids lives, even though he doesn’t work and lives there. This is just as bad as a divorced parents, maybe worse.

All of this sets a bad tone for a future relationship with her. In all of those cases, I broke up with the girl and didn’t tell her why. But her lack of any negative response to her mother behaving so badly to her father is often unpleasant to witness.

There’s alot of other “tells” you can see from your girlfriends family and friends and how they behave between each other and what my girlfriends response is to that behaviour.

I don’t think alot of women realise how bad the behaviour of their parents and friends look to us and our decision to be in a LTR with them - it’s extremely informative.

 

[Will_V]

I look for alot more nuances in the parents situation to disqualify or qualify a woman as a potential long term partner.

From my experience, I’ve ended so many situationships or stopped dating women because her parents were divorced or because I met her married parents and did things I didn’t like:

1. Her mum was bossy towards her dad, especially openly in front of me, their daughters boyfriend. Very bad sign.

2. The father was hen-pecked and always going out and running errands for his wife or cleaning up the house when she wasn’t doing anything and the husband was the primary breadwinner. Another bad sign this girl I’m dating is going to be painful.

3. When the two parents are together but they don’t like each other and are together for finances or just for the kids. It’s the same as having divorced parents. Girl has usually harbouring toxic latent beliefs about men she’s heard many times from her frustrated angry mother behind her dads back.

4. Women who have parents where the mother is clearly a gold digger.

5. Where my girlfriend implies that her mother has definately cheated on her dad but he doesn’t care. Or when she says her mother loves to go out to many functions or what are essentially upmarket parties without her husband.

6. When the parents are still married but the father is a loser who barely works and is not really involved in his kids lives, even though he doesn’t work and lives there. This is just as bad as a divorced parents, maybe worse.

All of this sets a bad tone for a future relationship with her. In all of those cases, I broke up with the girl and didn’t tell her why. But her lack of any negative response to her mother behaving so badly to her father is often unpleasant to witness.

There’s alot of other “tells” you can see from your girlfriends family and friends and how they behave between each other and what my girlfriends response is to that behaviour.

I don’t think alot of women realise how bad the behaviour of their parents and friends look to us and our decision to be in a LTR with them - it’s extremely informative.

All great points. As my father likes to say 'just look at a girl's mother and you'll see who she is going to be a few decades from now'.

I look into the parent relationship a lot more than I mentioned, the main one for me is the dynamic between her mother and father. For LTRs I think conflict resolution is one of if not the most important thing and sometimes girls grow up with horrible examples of how to behave, with their mother ranting and raving and the father trying to be a pacifier. This is what happened in a fairly recent relationship, my girlfriend would sometimes blow up and be very difficult to manage, and I realized that her mother would do the same thing to her father, except he would do very little about it (despite being a 6'5 ex policeman lol). And the funny thing is that when I talked to her parents, her mother would act quite soft and submissive, and although I could tell she wore the pants I didn't really know until late in the relationship that she had a habit of doing this blowing up thing, and that my girlfriend was simply doing what she had learned.

The reality is that we usually grow up with only one clear example of how to be parents, and that will dictate most of what we do when the time comes unless we have a very tight control over ourselves.

 

[Kent]

Okay let’s get real here. Nobody wants to accept it but all relationships have an end date... whether you get with a quality woman or not

Not saying that you shouldn’t value relationships or be pessimistic about it but realize that one day that beautiful, supportive and sexy woman is going to leave you

You can have the best relationship management skills in the world, be super high value, be the perfect man but she will still leave. Either through death or with her own two feet. And there’s nothing you can really do about it

This fact of life is extremely important for seducers. Because, maybe it’s our massive egos but a lot of us think… oh she will never leave me because I have game and she's a quality woman

Pure BS

Because even if she stays with you physically there is a very high chance she will check out emotionally and sexually at some point or you yourself will grow bored of her

I mean use some logic here. If you meet your "quality woman" when you're both 30, in 25 years you'll both be 55. Do you really think that you can go from tons of abundance fucking hot women to now being committed to fucking a 55 year old?

There's a reason why older men leave their old wives and then get with younger women. If normies do it all the time then what makes us seducers think we will act different?

Now some of you will say, but it won't be about sex at that point and I can still fuck other women on the side. But then what is the point of being with your quality woman then? Why not let the relationship run it's natural course and then you both find someone that matches your current needs?

It's pretty crazy when I think about it. Because we have dudes in the community that talk all about forever commitment yet they can't be committed to anyone themselves. Almost like we don't pay attention to how we really behave and hold on to these odd ideals

I honestly think the best approach is to accept relationships for what they are. Enjoy them, make tons of dope memories, have lots of crazy passionate sex, maybe even pop out some mini me's with a woman or women you really click with.

And remember that no matter how quality your woman is now, at some point she may not be quality anymore.... and it's okay because there are plenty more quality women where she came from

Wouldn't Zan Perrion be a counterexample to this? I think you make a great point, but I've seen a good amount of exceptions

 

[Alpha13SC]

@Alpha13SC I respectively disagree what you have shared is what *YOU* look for. Every guy has different preferences. I think guys should focus on exploring girls and seeing what they actually like based on experience and not what mainstream Disney tells them.

Respect your disagreement, although I don't see where you disagree with me and I hope you didn't do this post just to say that.

In before to respond, I assume this post was about quality girl in a relationship. If it's just for short term relationships, yeah, I don't give a fuck.

For example:


I used to like this... Now? Nah

Regarding impulsivity, I believe that to a very high degree you can train your girl to do sexual stuff. Got girls to fuck in the park, try new stuff, unusual places because they trusted me.

Why did I rated this? Because when the drama appears, shits goes fire and I have a low tolerance for it. And I think everybody from here has a low tolerance to it. Get one like that and when you have a fight with her, she may say some things that you don't like out of nowhere because of her impulsiveness and then you have to break up with her even if you don't want, but because you want to keep your boundaries, no matter if she s great, or not.

Didn't really explained this too much, but this helps me to not break up with her if shit hits the fan. It may happen with every girl? Of course. May happen faster with those type. I believe so.

Personally think this is red pill wet dreams. I come from a religious family, half of which are Muslim (arguably one of the strictest religions) let's just say anal is rife and women are women. Don't believe the hype.

Doesn't adress my main point. C mon man. I said it may have better core values due to the fact that they re teached from an early age. My theory is that they recognize a masculine presence as an authority(God in my case) so it's easy for them to associate masculinity with authority.

Had a girl from a very religious family and rarely I saw someone wanting my dick so much.

Versus girls who are "no, God, who is that?" so unconsciously they reject the masculine authority.

Second part is just a theory, so take it with a grain of salt. Personal sharing.

Reason why this is important is those religious girls will sell purity to their advantage to get what they want from you. Mostly not out of maliciousness but to just be pragmatic.

Of course.

Looking at her background and trying to make assumptions is a sub-par strategy at best.

It's a strategy that everybody does. That's what stereotypes are for. And everybody are using it. No matter who you're judging. Everybody looks at everybody's background and are making assumptions. I m looking at someone who steals for a living to be able to do it from me also. Same thing. So I don't see how this is an argument. Like Skills says to look at her cheating history. That's background as well.

This isn't an EE thing this is a life thing. Links back to my point about personality. Some personalities are drawn to cities, some others are drawn to slower country side living.

So you agree with me.

Again personally I want a bit of a city girl who I can enjoy skyline views and have sushi with, a boring (FOR ME) country girl would leave me so unstimulated I'd lose my mind.

I think you're a bit judging. How so country girls aren't able to do that? They're not living under a rock, my friend.

Don't believe the hype. Recent 30-50 years of culture can't undo a millennia of biology

I live in London & 99% of these girls are only feminist by name and if they like you, act like any other feminine sweet girl.

I'll admit the way you approach it is different but I think that gives me an idea for a whole other post.

I ve dealt with both. I m speaking from experience. It's just about the dominant headspace they are in and mental pattern about "equality" vs "man and woman".

Again this is too simplistic. Do people tend to be more well-rounded from stable 2 parent households? Yes of course they do.

So you agree with me.

This is more of a guideline. Never implied, nor will the fact that this is a rule and I don't know why did you brought that up. In certain circumstances, I would let that slide.

It's well known that single-parent households can create dysfunctionalities. And for me and supposedly for you, you want healthy people around you. Again, this is about long term things, if it s just short term, just ignore.

Low body count + strong dad = Girlfriend even though I met her last week.

I like your way of styling the text, but this is just twisting my words and projecting them back by reduction to absurd. Hope you recognize that.

In the end, I agree that compatibility is a very big thing. But that doesn't invalidate quality as long as you can define it by some values and if you train the quality in you also.

Alpha13SC

 

[Warped Mindless]

Instead of “screening for quality women” or some BS like that I simply ask myself “what is my goal right now and with women” and then ask myself if that woman meets that goal.

For instance, if my goal was to “just party it up, have fun, live life to the fullest” then that’s how I would judge the women I met.

If I met a chick during day game and slept with her I would ask myself ”is she non dramatic and do I enjoy the sex? Is she fun to hang with?”

If the answers are positive in relation to my goal, I would keep her around.

If my goal was to find a woman to have children with do you think the things I would look for would be different to the other example I just gave?

OF COURSE!

”Quality” is subjective and depends on your goals.

I have a GF and two fuck buddies. That’s how I like things right now. Both of my FBs are “quality.” My GF is also “quality.” Both my FBs and my GF are quality in different ways because my goals are different with each group.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Swati]

I didn't read ALL of the comments, maybe I'm repeating some parts. This will give a different perspective on where QUALITY came from.

Most of the quality people are referring to is a naïve/ not-experienced/ low body count, virgins/beautiful girls fetishized by Middle Eastern dudes, concurrently having play things on the side as "side girls"

The ultimate quality is referred to by Arabs as the beautiful virgins. Because within the faith the ultimate prize to receive from in their religion are beautiful virgins severants as wives. Stemming from the ego, to take something precious, like the girl's first time... middle eastern/gypsy goes through hymen rebuilding, faking virginity, offering up their virginity to the highest bidder Arab, putting a price on their pussy. This FACT shows you tricks are being played on the male sex drives.

To me, is annoying background noise about this purity of women type of ideal from their perspective.

Again if the noobs ask themselves what they want as a "GF", deep down they will describe exactly what the Arabs fantasize about and goes for.

High-level or thrill-seeking guys would want the opposite of what I've described above, cause virgins are boring. Because when describing women quality should be more personal. The word itself is easily misinterpreted. Doesn't demystify their irking needy ass little secret deep down. They yearn for a beautiful virgin who serves them like an obedient slave.

This annoying ass dude (middle eastern), for example, fetishes the fantasy of being an "Andrew Tate" who can get hoes on the side, with virgins waiting at home for him, of course, dude has a wack game and this annoying ass naggy bitch like quality about him. recently I got tired of his antics, just told him to STFU.
(a typical example of the quality seeker)

There isn't much to debate about when we are talking with 98% of this community. The above covers the spectrum, including those edge lord red pillers, who aren't Muslim, who fall in love with this fantasy.

high-level guys who have abundance, the quality may be a girl who's bisexual and willing to look for other girls with him and have threesomes. For guys like the naggy ass fool who could barely get laid, continues to be a living contradiction.

There are all valid points, but to hear it from noobs repeatedly, red pillers, desiring something of the sort is absurd and annoying

I don't know why people always try to wear their quality requirements like is something that's profound or a badge of honor. I know, they want to showcase their STANDARDS, act like they are above all, type of ego. in reality THESE are clowns who aren't getting any play... FYI no ones cares

 

[James Cruse]

For LTRs I think conflict resolution is one of if not the most important thing and sometimes girls grow up with horrible examples of how to behave

Very true - that was the major reason I didn’t get married to an LTR several years ago - poor conflict resolution skills.

She was always trying to manipulate me with stonewalling any time I addressed anything she did wrong that I didn’t like or she would just stonewall me when she didn’t like something I did but wouldn’t tell me.

That one thing ALONE brought down our relationship.
A woman’s ability to resolve conflict OR confront conflict constructively is a very important relationship skill that many women don’t understand.

I think looking for a Long-Term Relationship-quality woman, a man has to ask himself:

Does this woman have the qualities that I could see myself being faithful to long-term?

Even if my plan is to want to date other women that she knows about, in a situation where she shares me.

The above standard is an exercise to eliminate all the other women that don’t fit that criteria.

The due diligence of finding out about the woman’s past behaviour and skeletons in the closet + her regular influences of family and friends is secondary to the qualities I could see myself with for long-term (faithfulness).