Why does she lie about her sexual experiences?

[Jan]

I have seen a pattern recently. Women seem to make up hard-to-believe stories about their sexual experiences.

CHICK 1

She has a boyfriend and I had a discussion with her about having a threesome with her boyfriend. She went to ask him, and he said no. She is clearly attracted to me, she gave me way more attention than she gave her boyfriend, when we were out. We parted ways that night, and two days later she texted me that she and her boyfriend had a threesome that same night later. It was hard to believe because they were already heading home, clubs were closed, so it's even difficult to imagine how did they get this third guy. She was also kind of hesitant providing details how they met, etc.

A week later, she sent me another text that, after the weekend, saying that she had a threesome again. Her third in two weeks, supposedly.

CHICK 2

We talked on Tinder, and over the phone (never met). I told her that I'm sexually open and my prefered relationship type is friends with benefits. She told me that she had FOUR guys in her rotation Again, very hard to believe, as she has a daughter who she lives with, and friends she goes out with. So it would even be very difficult for her to handle this four dudes rotation, timewise.

CHICK 3

I fucked this one. We clearly had missing expectations as she wanted a relationship and I wanted a casual fwb. She went out to her her home town for the weekend, we met on Sunday evening, and when I was trying to escalate she told me that she had sex with her friend, with same morning. It seemed like she wanted to test me if I'm still going to want to have sex with her even though she fucked this other guy, morning the same day.

INTERPRETATION

The pattern is pretty clear and I'm trying to make sense of it. Two things come to my mind:

a) it's some kind of test
b) they are trying to qualify themselves to me on the sexual level, trying to prove that they also had a rich sex live, even if they don't.

 

[Jan]

Could it be that they are testing for jealousy? Maybe she is thinking: "This guy claims that he wants to have casual sex with me without drama. But how can I be sure that he won't get attached fast and create drama if I let him fuck me?"

 

[TomInHo]

They are acting that way in response to you and the frames you set

You are coming across more on the fuckboi side of things being so blunt about wanting uncommitted relationships. So to not feel lame they are telling you stories to make it seem like they match your experience level

it's a form of qualifying, but could also indicate you are lower on the attainability scale

CHICK 1

She has a boyfriend and I had a discussion with her about having a threesome with her boyfriend. She went to ask him, and he said no. She is clearly attracted to me, she gave me way more attention than she gave her boyfriend, when we were out. We parted ways that night, and two days later she texted me that she and her boyfriend had a threesome that same night later. It was hard to believe because they were already heading home, clubs were closed, so it's even difficult to imagine how did they get this third guy. She was also kind of hesitant providing details how they met, etc.

A week later, she sent me another text that, after the weekend, saying that she had a threesome again. Her third in two weeks, supposedly.

Who knows if it's true or not. Think should be more concerned about if she is doing what you want, rather than those stories.

How can you find out if it's true?

Since she is okay fucking other guys why don't you suggest both of you meet in private. That will give you all the answers you need

CHICK 2

We talked on Tinder, and over the phone (never met). I told her that I'm sexually open and my prefered relationship type is friends with benefits. She told me that she had FOUR guys in her rotation Again, very hard to believe, as she has a daughter who she lives with, and friends she goes out with. So it would even be very difficult for her to handle this four dudes rotation, timewise.

You told her you do FBs and are uncommitted before banging. So not surprised she will flaunt other guys in your face

Because of what you said earlier she feels the need up her value and appear more desirable in your eyes. Pretty much trying to balance things out so you don't get a big head

And FYI some women do have rotations.... trust

Not the majority tho

But when women talk about a 4 guy rotation, this is a possible way it may look...

Guy 1: She just texts him for validation but the never meets up. He's friend zoned hard but hoping for his chance

Guy 2: She goes out on dates with him but never gets physical

Guy 3: She is fucking him and also chasing him for a relationship but he is too busy with women or business or whateva to give her a real commitment

Guy 4: She talks to him and may have gone out on some dates with him. Maybe even got a little physical but hasn't committed to him because she is still unsure and also hung up on Guy 3

They may not be sleeping with all of them. But all those guys feel like they have a chance with her at varying levels of intimacy/commitment

CHICK 3

I fucked this one. We clearly had missing expectations as she wanted a relationship and I wanted a casual fwb. She went out to her her home town for the weekend, we met on Sunday evening, and when I was trying to escalate she told me that she had sex with her friend, with same morning. It seemed like she wanted to test me if I'm still going to want to have sex with her even though she fucked this other guy, morning the same day.

That's funny. Lines up with what I said above and I didn't even read this part of your post yet lol

In this case you were Guy 3 and he could be Guy 4

It could be true that she fucked him or it could be a lie idk. But all we know is she shared that information with you for a clear reason... to discover your level of investment and also boost her value

I'm still not going to BS you tho... it's within the realm of possibility that she did fuck him and if she is an FB you honestly shouldn't give a shit since its supposed to be casual anyways

The pattern is pretty clear and I'm trying to make sense of it. Two things come to my mind:

a) it's some kind of test
b) they are trying to qualify themselves to me on the sexual level, trying to prove that they also had a rich sex live, even if they don't.

I don't see it as a "test"

Women are people and have egos too. And if you do things that hurt their egos they are capable of doing or saying things to bring you down a peg and raise their value too

If you're ok with that dynamic and are getting what you want then no need to change

But if you want women to behave more co-operative with you and not have these odd power battles all the time then may have to tweak your game and be more careful about the information you share

 

[HoofHearted]

My opinion is... your assessment is not far off.

When a woman brags to me about sexual experiences, I usually know two things:

1. She is trying to impress me.
2. She has terrible 'girl' game.

This was a lesson I took pretty early on, because I believed them too much, often to disasterous results. It becomes pretty easy to tell when girls are misrepresenting themselves, too. Not perfect at it by any means, but I can usually tell approximately how many partners a girl has had through interacting with her (no, not precise numbers, but an area).

There's so much terrible girl game in the world, and when I am interacting with women I often just coach them to knock it off. It's dude-ish and not helpful.

The most savvy women I have experienced did the opposite and concealed or misrepresented their count in the other direction, lower. These women can be very attractive and helpful.

But the most attractive women imo are low count and are naturally too shy/embarassed to talk about this at all.

 

[Jan]

@TomInHo I don't really care if these stories are true or not. I would like to understand WHY they say them though. I see them as a signal that some objection/emotion inside them has to be addressed in order to proceed to intimacy more smoothly.

They are acting that way in response to you and the frames you set

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Sometimes I'm up front with what I want from them (uncommited sex) beforehand and sometimes I'm not. But in these three cases, I was upfront, so these stories are definitely the response to the frame.

Think should be more concerned about if she is doing what you want, rather than those stories.

She is not doing what I want, that's why this post. I usually get stucked at this stage. It's ususally mid-game or late-mid-game, where there is already a lot of attraction, connection and comfort established. However, I get resistance when I try to move to physical intimacy.

Since she is okay fucking other guys why don't you suggest both of you meet in private. That will give you all the answers you need

I tried to invite her twice. She refused citing her boyfriend.

If I wanted to be upfront about my intentions, how do you suggest I address these objections/stories?

 

[topcat]

However, I get resistance when I try to move to physical intimacy.

Low attainability is the cause.

If I wanted to be upfront about my intentions, how do you suggest I address these objections/stories?

I wouldn’t be straight up about it. It’s creating low attainability and thereby causing the objections and stories.

This stops when when you stop overtly acting like a fuckboy.

Girls can implicitly tell a guy gets pussy from the fact he is attractive and confident (and makes the right moves at the right time).

Moving quickly and smoothly towards the bedroom is overt enough.

Your vibe should indicate sexiness, your words should subtly assuage her concerns.

From experience, the need to explicitly state your intentions, indicates your vibe isn’t strong enough.

Work on that, and these issues will disappear.

 

[Stark]

I would like to understand WHY they say them though.

If I wanted to be upfront about my intentions, how do you suggest I address these objections/stories?

Whenever I have come across girls going out of their way to tell me ‘fake’ sex stories, they are

1. Trying to see if they can rattle me
2. Increase their desirability in my eyes

An example for first scenario:
A girl that I had sex with on the first date , delaying the second time while dropping hints that she’s sleeping around. Telling more such stories on the second time I had sex with her. She presumed I’m a hyper sexual guy and had a wide variety of sexual adventures(she was right). Now she needs to step up and assume an identity of a wild hoe. She never admitted these stories as fake but kept mentioning during our succeeding times how she can keep up with me.

Example of second scenario:
There was a girl I was texting but hadn’t met up yet due to various reasons from my side. She was getting impatient and wanted to meet and have sex at her place. To increase my motivation, she kept mentioning that other guys she had hooked up are hitting her up for another lay. As I wasn’t biting, she started sharing screenshots of her actively sexting those guys and sharing nudes. That did the trick. I paid her a visit and sealed the deal the very next day. To top it off she kept sharing her wild stories in between rounds to get me ready for her. Again she was competing to prove that she’s a match to my own wild sexual history.

The key to progress in these cases is to be ACTUALLY nonchalant about their hoe stories. Whether they are true or not, she’s using them as a bait to get me to bed. That’s all I need to know.

 

[TomInHo]

@TomInHo I don't really care if these stories are true or not. I would like to understand WHY they say them though. I see them as a signal that some objection/emotion inside them has to be addressed in order to proceed to intimacy more smoothly.

I get it

And like other posters said above it just means she currently sees you as a playboy and attainability is low. Some girls will like it and want to fuck you for it, and those are easy to brush off because if you keep escalating they will bang

But on the flipside some girls will also dislike that you're an obvious playboy and will not want to fuck you. This is done to preserve their ego and prove to you and themselves that they are not like "those other girls"

This is why you can't have a blanket one size fits all response to these situation, because the best move will always depend on context

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Sometimes I'm up front with what I want from them (uncommited sex) beforehand and sometimes I'm not. But in these three cases, I was upfront, so these stories are definitely the response to the frame.

She is not doing what I want, that's why this post. I usually get stucked at this stage. It's ususally mid-game or late-mid-game, where there is already a lot of attraction, connection and comfort established. However, I get resistance when I try to move to physical intimacy.

I tried to invite her twice. She refused citing her boyfriend.

Ye those are all symptoms of low attainability

Best way to fix it is not fold on your previous frame, because it will look disingenuous

But try your best to get them qualifying to you on things beyond just being sexual here. Kind of like you still a sexual guy but that's not the only thing you like about them

Might make it easier on their ASD and need to prove their sexual prowess so much

If I wanted to be upfront about my intentions, how do you suggest I address these objections/stories?

You can be upfront by what you don't say

@topcat said this already. But if you come up to her and have a strong sexual vibe, read her signals correctly, pull back when she acts dumb, reward when she acts pleasant and consistently push things forward

She will get the hint that you are a playboy without having to be in her face about it

Also if you are very vague about what you want and tell her things that make you seem unavailable for an LTR, it will preserve her ego and she will put you in the casual box with less resistance

So think of it as plausible deniability for why you are casual

Examples...

"I've been living here for years but I think I need a change. Don't have anything keeping me here so will probably move away in 6 months to explore the world more and find a new place to settle down for a bit"

Above you pretty much gave her a timeline of 6 months to change your mind for something serious. She will put you in the casual box then try to convert you later

OR

"I was in 3 year relationship and got out a few months ago. Focused on healing and just started dipping my feet into the dating scene again"

This works because you have a reason for being single. And also implied you may be seeing other women without being boastful. This will also make it easier to put you in casual box because if she wants commitment she knows you are capable of it but probably to vulnerable for something too serious very quickly

From my experience I know I got them hooked when they start asking me things like "You still talk to your ex?" "Think you two will ever get back together?" "Are you sure you're healed yet"

So pretty much you can be upfront in your intention but from my experience it seems to work better when I tell girls things that make them put me in the casual box using their own reasoning rather than me being super blunt

 

[Skills]

The way you are running your seduction trying to be this sexually open guy is uncalibrated your timing is off and sometimes dumb strategies like.. hey tell your boyfriend if he wants a 3 some autism...

You are also incongruent and they can tell...

Your whole strategy is flawed and uncalibrated... Which is why they are mirroring with none sense
.

 

[POB]

@Jan imagine a girl coming up to you and casually saying you should get you and your girlfriend to have a 3-some with her?
As much as you are a guy and would prob go for it, it would sound super weird wouldn't it?

Or a random online girl asking you to have casual sex at her place before even meeting you in person?
Even if it's legit, doesn't it smell like a con?

Sucessfull sexual guys are like those filthy rich folks...they never talk about it!
It's just implied on how they carry themselves.

 

[Mr Mistah]

Seems like the diagnosis here is that OP is overdoing the sexual prizing and lowering attainabiliy as a result.

More responses that he doesn't need to do all that talking - if he fixes vibe/demeanor it should be enough.

Getting abit lost here because:

1. Why then do we hold 2nd gen verbals, Teevsters sex talk, sexual prizing etc in high regard around here if vibe is enough?

2. What exactly are these vibe adjustments that make you come across as a guy who gets laid without relying on verbals? Off the top of your head - is it the usual things like strong eye contact, slow movements etc or is there more?

The fact that OP is getting these girls to share these stories with him means he already has a baseline level of attractiveness no?

What's missing?

Curious to hear your thoughts

 

[Jan]

@topcat Yeah, I would agree pretty much with everything. I just wasn't aware that being verbally overt tanks attainability.

You are also correct about the vibe. Vibe really is the king, and when I get back to my succesful seductions, most of them I kept my mouth shut about the relationship expectations or even about sex alltogether. I just escalated the vibe.

The main reason I'm overt about the relationship expectations is that it seems more honest to me. Keeping quiet is not lying but it feels like hiding part of the truth. It feels like giving her a false hope.

This is why I experiment with being overt from time to time. Trying to find the solution to eat the cake and have the cake.

 

[KJ Francis]

Why then do we hold 2nd gen verbals, Teevsters sex talk, sexual prizing etc in high regard around here if vibe is enough?

I believe Teevster himself said in one of the GC podcasts that vibe can indeed be enough. But he is not looking for regular sex. He is looking for kinky sex on the first night, which requires opening the girl up sexually to a greater level before the pull.

I believe he is also going for extremely hot girls. So while a great vibe and fundamentals may be enough to get a hot girl, he is going for models and such that would require a higher level of sexual prizing that need verbals to convey. He also does not directly proposition the girl verbally. He dangles his sex knowledge and skills in front of her like a string in front of a cat.

I could be wrong, but that has been my perspective from observing his content.

 

[Jan]

This is why you can't have a blanket one size fits all response to these situation, because the best move will always depend on context

Definitely makes sense.

But try your best to get them qualifying to you on things beyond just being sexual here. Kind of like you still a sexual guy but that's not the only thing you like about them

Yeah, qualification her on non-sexual things usually work well for me. I recently came to the conclusion that genuine qualification is about appreciation. Basically, taking the time to genuinely look at her (not necessarily at the physical aspect) and express what you truly like/appreciate about her. Tradictional pick-up advice to qualify her on the qualities you want to elicit (adventorous, sexual, spontaneous) never really work for me. Probabably, because I was never able to fake genuine appreciation if I didn't truly see these qualities. On the other hand, if I qualified her on qualities which are not fast sex supporting, but more like boyfriend-girlfriend typing, it was more likely that I would get laid.

But if you come up to her and have a strong sexual vibe, read her signals correctly, pull back when she acts dumb, reward when she acts pleasant and consistently push things forward

Good summary of the core of the seduction process.

So pretty much you can be upfront in your intention but from my experience it seems to work better when I tell girls things that make them put me in the casual box using their own reasoning rather than me being super blunt

Yeah, her own reasoning works much better.

Regarding your examples. I think it can be a step forward for me, but it still doesn't fix the underlying issue which I mentioned in the reply to Topcat. Giving a false hope seems dishonest to me.

 

[Jan]

@POB The threesome story is a bit more nuanced than how you imagined it. I have known this girl for a while, it wasn't our first encounter. She is ex-stripper, ex-OF and a swinger. She also told me about the times she went to a swing club with her boyfriend when they travelled to France. So basically, there was more context for this threesome conversation, and she also took this suggestion enthusiastically.

I didn't ask this online girl to have sex with me, I just told her that my preffered relationship type of a fwb.

Sucessfull sexual guys are like those filthy rich folks...they never talk about it!
It's just implied on how they carry themselves.

True

 

[Jan]

1. Why then do we hold 2nd gen verbals, Teevsters sex talk, sexual prizing etc in high regard around here if vibe is enough?

Good question.

 

[TomInHo]

Regarding your examples. I think it can be a step forward for me, but it still doesn't fix the underlying issue which I mentioned in the reply to Topcat. Giving a false hope seems dishonest to me.

Okay it get where you are coming from

The main reason I'm overt about the relationship expectations is that it seems more honest to me. Keeping quiet is not lying but it feels like hiding part of the truth. It feels like giving her a false hope.

This is why I experiment with being overt from time to time. Trying to find the solution to eat the cake and have the cake.

I have been there too man

I value honesty, but in dating, it doesn’t always pay off

Not saying you should be a lying scumbag but the truth is if you are overt about your intentions, you might lose some women, but you'll also attract others who are on the same page

IMO a better approach is to use selective honesty. Don't tell em you want to get married but also don't rule out the possibility of a relationship either

Because in reality you don't know what will happen.

You can meet a girl and think "oh hell no I will not wife her up" but then you start fucking and she impresses you with her sexuality and personality. Next thing you know she starts looking like a viable prospect

OR

You meet a girl and think "She is definitely GF material... i mean look at her tits and she has 3 bachelor degrees!!!". Then you hang out with her more and realize she is a massive pain in the ass

When it comes to romance you might have a general idea in the beginning of what you want from a girl but it is always susceptible to change after spending more time with her

So think of it as a way to set expectations to give you and her more time to vet each other for something serious if casual works out.... (btw a lot of girls have this frame)

Or if you really just want an ONS and want to be honest, just don't sell a future, always emphasize living in the moment then after you bang make no real promises of moving forward

It may sting for her a bit if she liked you a lot, but as long as you didn't sell a dream she will bounce back and have fond memories of the encounter

EDIT

And for calibrating sex talk and frames I suggest you guys read this series from Teevs. Was super helpful for me

Sex Talk Calibration

 

[topcat]

The main reason I'm overt about the relationship expectations is that it seems more honest to me. Keeping quiet is not lying but it feels like hiding part of the truth. It feels like giving her a false hope.

It’s not honest though is it?

You don’t really know your intentions with a girl until you’ve fucked her a few times..

If you were looking for a long term relationship and happened on a date with a girl at first glance you thought might be wifey material..would you tell her straight up? I hope not..

Why? Because you haven’t screened her nor have you spent enough time with her.

Telling her upfront you want a longterm relationship, only to find out later you absolutely want nothing to do with her is at the very least irresponsible, and probably dishonest. It's basically leading her on...

Likewise, best not to assume you don’t want a long term relationship with these chicks as your mind may change with time..

Lying? no.. Pragmatism? yes

This is just one way to look at it..

A simpler way to look at it..

Actions are more honest than words. Be true and congruent in your behaviour and you don’t need words.

Is a mute man a liar?

 

[topcat]

LOL @TomInHo beat me to it

 

[topcat]

1. Why then do we hold 2nd gen verbals, Teevsters sex talk, sexual prizing etc in high regard around here if vibe is enough?

On this. Sexual prizing is not “i wanna have a threesome with you” “i bang lots of chicks” and never has been.

It’s implicit in the sense that by talking about sex in a nuanced way (often without or only passingly referring to oneself in these scenarios), in a way that only a man experienced with sex could, she draws the conclusion ON HER OWN that you would be a great lay and starts to want to experience it OF HER OWN VOLITION.

Any short dick chump can tell a girl he has a million lovers, and still be shit in bed. What a guy that is shit in bed can’t do (or would likely struggle to do convincingly) is describe the act of sex as only a man who loves sex and has done it 100s of times can.