Why does the community dislike Caleb Jones / Blackdragon 2.0?

[PalmaSailor]

I have no idea who Black Dragon is... sweet name though. Is that the name of Jackie Chan movie?

I was going through that Mode One guy's stuff the other day, just because a friend recommended it to me and I heard he created a lot of uproar.

After listening to the first audio, there's 100% no doubt in my mind that he's a marketer. You don't tell stories like that without it being carefully crafted through marketing. Then the first part of the program is all massively over simplified and it involves a lot of hard marketing stuff in it (like creating a common enemy, which happens to be PUAs).

Can't fault the guy for wanting to create a cult following. I'd be surprised if there wasn't quite a few people who joined the men's dating advice niche to specifically suck money out of it while selling half truths and overly simplified ideas to be idealized.

Not sure if this Black Dragon guy is one of them or not but it sounds like a similar type of story. If you get wrapped up in the drama of it, you're missing the larger picture of what the guy is doing from a business standpoint that you could learning from.

If whoever running the forum was smart, you'd just kick that person out and incorporate some of their valuable marketing skills in your own business and move on with your life.

Marriage

On the note of marriage, I think marriage is vital to a healthy and functioning society, especially for kids. It is possible that you could have kids raised by a bunch of fathers in some type of leftist dystopian future world but I don't think that's ideal.

That being said, marriage for marriage sake doesn't appeal to me. But since I want kids, I think it's important to do. I also think marriage is important for our society so that the number of incels is reduced in the society.

When you have marriage, theoretically, you're pulling a lot of men out of the running to be sexual partners with a lot of the women. When marriage doesn't exist, those women compete for the best of the breed, leaving regular guys shit out of luck because women are all banging the top breed guys, even if the women are not all that attractive... because the top guy is spreading his seed.

So if you're not one of those top guys, you're looking for scraps. If you don't have the skillset or resources to attract really attractive women, you're left holding your dick.

So I think marriage is vital to keep men feeling like they have a place in the society, even if they're not the top breed of men, don't have amazing communication skills, or the resources to attract a great woman into their lives.

@Chase
The thing is that life doesn’t go as planned, my marriage lasted 10 years and it went in the blink of an eye. And I stuck in there for most of that because of my son. It could easily have “slid” for another 5 or even 10 years.

the only way to shelter assets here is to put them into trust, but there are tax implications and you need to be wealthy in the first place

The average man in the street makes money on the investment in the house he lives in. That’s where most U.K. household wealth is. That accrues over a lifetime and most people need 2 incomes to fund that anyway.

Asset protection is just never going to be a thing for the bulk of the population here.

 

[Will KZ]

I used to read BDs blog regularly and found it an interesting perspective and sometimes checkup on recent articles in case a headline grabs me. Usually I find his opinions on business and investing more interesting than his relationship stuff. He always claims to be very happy, and great for him, but he also seems to think that you have to live like him to be happy and you're a pussy if you don't. I can see why it gets on people's nerves. He reminds me of Harry Browne (to whom he's attributed a lot of his ideas), who wrote a book of life advice including - don't marry, don't put any energy into politics, and then married his second wife and ran for President as the Libertarian candidate multiple times.

I'm not very active on forums anyway and didn't participate in any of those mentioned, so fortunately don't have any opinion on him from that, but from the perspectives here it seems he acted out of line.

I always did wonder about the sort of quality he was getting from online dating. I kind of feel like when you're in your 40s, any girl in her early 20s in decent shape looks absolutely stunning. I'm guessing the quality (looks-wise, not personality-wise) is higher with sugar-babes. I didn't think he got properly married again, he called his wife an OLTR or something and had like a non-marriage ceremony, God knows what a judge would make of that in an asset dispute.

He has been critical of one-sided monogamy as "Guy Disney", meaning a male fantasy almost impossible to play out in the real world. My limited experiences in that field have ended in abrupt failure so I can't fault his opinion, but I still think I might be able to run it long-term some day with the right girl. A man must have his ambitions...

Oh and Black Dragon is a good name, chosen as the figurative opposite of a white knight (of course, the knight usually kills the dragon at the end of the story).

 

[Ambiance]

Oh and Black Dragon is a good name, chosen as the figurative opposite of a white knight (of course, the knight usually kills the dragon at the end of the story).

HAH! I never made the connection between BlackDragon's moniker and White Knighting. That's gold.

I'm a fan of his stuff, particularly his life management articles. I also loved his The Unchained Man and Ultimate Open Relationships Manual (neither of which I paid for ). Though I've always wondered how happy he actually is. At least as a writer and on camera, he's always harping about something wrong with the world, and he doesn't smile much. Don't think he is an outcome independent as he claims to be (if you have to say it, is it true?). Whatever the case, BlackDragon has a lot of great content, though Girls Chase is in another league.

 

[Will KZ]

I read Unchained Man, which I did pay for (it was only like $9 or something), can't say I got much out of it, maybe because he basically says the same stuff on his blog. I imagine it's similar with his Open Relationships Manual, but I'm not much interested in that type of relationship anyway, and I imagine the stuff here on two different styles of open relationships probably has all the info you need anyway (one of the series looked pretty similar to BDs stuff anyway.

I'd agree that GC articles are in another league. Sometimes I wonder though if I should read less of this stuff, the way the break things down is unparalleled, but it can lead to over-analytical types such as myself over-focusing on minutiae for something that in the end is a simple animalistic process.

 

[Rain]

I also think marriage is important for our society so that the number of incels is reduced in the society.

When you have marriage, theoretically, you're pulling a lot of men out of the running to be sexual partners with a lot of the women. When marriage doesn't exist, those women compete for the best of the breed, leaving regular guys shit out of luck because women are all banging the top breed guys, even if the women are not all that attractive... because the top guy is spreading his seed.

So if you're not one of those top guys, you're looking for scraps. If you don't have the skillset or resources to attract really attractive women, you're left holding your dick.

So I think marriage is vital to keep men feeling like they have a place in the society, even if they're not the top breed of men, don't have amazing communication skills, or the resources to attract a great woman into their lives.

Is there a way to make it a reality that every single man has equal opportunity, or can a pro marriage society only get people so far?
If I recall, its 80% of women reproduced but only 40% of men have reproduced over histroy due to things like war and/or competition in safe societies.

 

[Ambiance]

Is there a way to make it a reality that every single man has equal opportunity, or can a pro marriage society only get people so far?
If I recall, its 80% of women reproduced but only 40% of men have reproduced over histroy due to things like war and/or competition in safe societies.

This world where pretty much all men are able to pair up has existed many times in the past, even recently in the West following WWII. Historically, harmoniously monogamous societies are a reaction to an imbalance of men to women, which was brought about by war and hard labor.
Additionally, civilizations that created values that promoted monogamy have had more success than polygamous societies, likely due to most of the working force having their sexual needs met, allowing them to contribute to the civilizations success. In polygamous societies, elite men monopolize all the women, and those without a woman to tend to their core sexual needs tend to be distracted/unmotivated at best, destructive at worst.

So it's a combination of not enough men to go around and social corralling that instills monogamous societies. These tend to break down following an ascension to wealth and following decadence, brought about by the productive if domineering attitudes of a monogamous society. More men make it to adulthood, and people push for greater and greater social liberties, which is what has happened to the West over the past few decades.

 

[POB]

I only found out about NextASF because of BD back in 2011/12. Also In the beginning his content helped me a lot after a bad break-up, even his seduction advice (which later I found out to be pretty basic to say the least, but I digress).

I have read 3 of his books (unchained men, by far his best book which covers a lot of ground), online dating (which I found ok, not great, but a good start if you never did online) and open-relationships (which helped me prep the details for the current OLTR I'm in, and is a good book if you are new to open relationships, but is gonna fall short for more advanced guys who are already set in their own ways).

I'll not comment on his beefs because I was not around when it happened, but I caught up his latest posting on NextASF and he was very very confrontational to a lot of guys. He is a very good debater, his rational points make a lot of sense, but he lacks nuance in a lot of crucial seduction aspects that he argues over and over just because he takes them for granted. I fell under this spell for a brief while until my own experiences showed me something was lacking, so I just stopped listening to his seduction advice and looked for better sources.

His relationship advice is very straight to the point and was already debated extensively in the community: fuck more than one girl at all times, never loose your frame and use soft-next as a drama control technique. Sometimes you can pick one you like the most and upgrade her, but never fuck just one girl. If you make a girl serious, protect your assets and keep fucking other chicks to avoid monogamy-like problems like oneitis.

Is it practical? Yes. Does it work long term? Nobody knows for sure, because ppl who do it for real (for a very long time) do not talk about it. Seems to be working fine for him, but even the details of his marriage are not 100% clear (we only hear about his side bc his wife does not talk publicly). My guess is there are more things happening than meets the eye, but he doesn't talk about them.

Personal experience shows me it's A LOT OF WORK TO MAKE IT HAPPEN. There are a lot of hurdles to overcome daily and you run a lot of risks if you get a very serious woman under this system. It's not easy by any means. But it's doable, and so far I'm pretty happy with the results I'm getting, which are far better than when I had mono-gfs.

Personally I have no reason to hate the guy. Quite the opposite in fact. But I acknowledge his flaws and the fact that he burned the bridges and left a large shit stain on the community.

 

[ocean_eyes]

Around before BD and noticed his arrival and some goings-on afterwards.
Agree with most everything said so far.

Didn't dislike BD personally.
90% lurking at that time so it wouldn't have mattered - I wasn't posting.
Could certainly see where he intentionally ruffled feathers.

I always try to separate the advice from the poster but never found much of BD's stuff very useful.
He kinda always sounded like an AFC who never got over his resentment of women.
(That's my speculation, not fact)

Despite this, he did make important contributions to the community! IIRC. Cheers!

 

[ocean_eyes]

Both women can be respectful, and affectionate... but there is a sort of "my husband is a very powerful, sexually powerful man" sort of respect you see among women who are either in one-sided monogamous marriages or are in explicitly monogamous ones with a sufficiently strong guy.

Let me tell you, if you are the husband in a implicit "only-she-is-monogamous" relationship, there is no better feeling than having your girl treat you like that in public

When your girls' friends ALL giggle when you walk by, its a lovely thing xD

 

[Glow]

Imo theres no need to spend time on anyone whos not here to defend themselves
nor to have posts like this discussing people from the starting point made
i would suggest to remove posts like this for the mod team
it serves nothing positive

edit
----
ps: just for clarity im focussing on the person-focus not the discussion of the material and posts on game he has been doing. Those parts are good to discuss or question in a constructive fashion.