Why NOT to learn seduction from scratch with no social life?

[Merchant's-Kin]

The inspiration for this post was @YS. 's message on @Troy's thread titled "Coronavirus & I Am Leaving The Dating Scene".

Where one really interesting thing @YS. brought up was that working really hard (whether working on career or working on seduction) 15 hours a day without maintaining good health or some kind of a social life is unproductive.

Due to residual effects of inaction in other areas (such as maintain health and fitness + some kind of social life)



Main idea of this post:
So I suppose the key question I'm asking here is about making a choice between:
1. Spending all of ur free time learning game through cold approach
2. Spending part of ur free time learning game through cold approach and part of your free time going to build some kind of a social life

... with the main goal being to learn seduction as fast as possible.



This is for someone who has/is:
1. Pretty much no social life (no social hobbies, no social media, does not meet any
friend regularly)
2. Pretty much learning seduction from scratch


In what ways does not having a social life decrease the learning efficiency of learning seduction from cold approach?
Are there factors other than efficiency you think are important?
Or have u perhaps found no issue with learning seduction without a social life?


From doing some research on this forum,
Some ideas I can think of are, lack of social life leads to:
1. Increased anxiety
2. Lack of spiritual energy, motivation, and happiness that leads to inefficiency in both
3. Making it harder to connect with some girls due to lack of presence on social media/lack of interest in music/television shows
4. Having less non-verbal social proof/preselection/acceptance, given that the only people you ever focus on are girls and seducing them
5. Perhaps other ways in which learning seduction becomes unproductive?

What are some other reasons you've experienced?


It would be great if you could share ur experiences!

 

[Bismarck]

Hey man,

I suggest you have a look at this page.

Guys who end up on seduction forums are usually not very successful with girls from a young age.

This also usually means they aren’t very socially savvy. There are exceptions of course, but I’d say this is the rule.

With regards to everything in life you should seek balance. From my own experience my best time so far was when I felt amazing consistently, and that was when I was, in no particular order:

1. Eating healthy and consuming enough calories to make strength/mass gains

2. Sleeping well

3. Socializing regularly, had at least two friends

4. Making money, enough to save

5. Had my own place

6. Fucking a couple of hot girls every month

7. Making progress in my path in life

It was nice to fuck new girls when I wasn’t so healthy, sleeping so well, socializing so often, or making so much money, but I was able to do that because I already had a system set up where I had access to a lot of girls.

You don’t need to be a social butterfly to be skilled in cold approach game.

However, I find it can help my mood before approaching to have been socializing earlier that day. If you haven’t it might take a couple of “throwaway” sets to get your state in gear before you’re at your best.

Also, note the importance of meaningful relationships for your general wellbeing. And having access to at least a few social circles where you’re accepted.

Not having any friends is not advisable in any scenario IME.

 

[aliparpar]

To add in my two cents:

Chase has written a great article on this specific subject. I recommend giving it a read:

Too Girl Crazy? When Meeting Girls is Your #1 Hobby

Everybody says you need more in your life than just approaching girls. But when ‘girls’ becomes your obsession, how do you balance it out? If you’re at beginner or intermediate status with women, you might be in this position. You shouldn’t have girls as your primary (or only!) hobby. You know...

www.girlschase.com

tl-dr: It's not bad that all you do is learning seduction. These few years of your life while being single are the best years for you to learn the social and dating skills you need to bring more people and women into your life.

As @Bismarck mentioned - having the balance helps you vibe in the right ways in front of others. You're just in a better mental space. It'll be hard at first since you don't have anyone fucking which doesn't give you the full confidence boost but as chase mentions in the article below, you want to maximise the winner effect in your life as much as possible by focusing on getting wins for yourself in variety of areas in life.

How to Be a Dominant Man: What You Didn't Know About the 'Winner Effect'

Dominance is a touchy topic. It's positively loaded with cultural baggage - in the West, we're averse to both the idea of being dominant over others and of others being dominant over us. It has all kinds of ill-favored connotations that most would rather just avoid. I'm throwing all of that out...

www.girlschase.com

The wins will keep your confidence levels high so that you can plough through the beginner's walls in your dating life until you start sleeping with women.

My recommendation as well is to focus on the basics first - good food, hygiene , exercise, fashion, exploring (both around you and different hobbies) and working on having your own social circle - which includes often creating your own if that's possible. Start hosting get togethers and plans for your friends and be the one who brings them together. The social boost will then give the wins and confidence.

 

[Velasco]

@Merchant's-Kin

You define "social life" as having social hobbies, social media, and meeting friends regularly. And your question is, if not having one, has a negative impact on your ability to learn seduction efficiently.

For me I think the reason you dont have a social life in the first place, is because you dont want to have a social life. Most introverts including myself dont. But you keep hearing about how guys who do have a social life, have all these nice things that you make you feel envious about. Things like access to parties, social proof, girls.

And the only reason you feel this way is because you are only focused on the positives of having a social life, and not on the work it takes to get those things or even the negatives that go along with having a social life.

As an introvert (I know you did not say anything about being an introvert so this is only my assumption), you may not feel the buring desire to want to be constantly meeting up with people regularly the way an extrovert would. You much prefer to be alone. Maybe watching an interesting movie, reading a good book, going for a long walk, playing video games or going to the gym to get your workout in (by yourself or with a fuckbuddy or a friend every so often but definitely not regularly).

So you have to ask yourself, are the negatives and the work I have to do to get the positive things I'm feeling envious of, worth it? If when you think about it, and your reaction is "nah" then there really is no reason to be envious about the positives. You know the work it takes to get those things (and the negatives that go along with it), and you decided it's not worth it.

I see that you have two main concerns that you feel not having a social life may hurt your ability to learn seduction efficently: motivation and relatability.

For me, I get more than enough motivation to keep going, being here in this community, reading field reports/practical articles/posts, having a couple of guys I can chat with (can even be offline, but I do recommend getting at least one guy who you can talk game with in real life) and helping guys out, and constantly looking for ways I can tweak and improve my game.

So that's motivation, as for being relatable without having any social media, I recommend you listen to the podcasts, Pardon My Take and Barstool Rundown (I'm also assuming you're American). They'll keep you updated on what you need to know. And give you small talk-talking material with coworkers/loose acquaintances.

 

[Mr.Rob]

I had no friends or social circle when I started pickup and was 2 years before I really made good friends.

I was basically a complete loner that did my own thing and religiously worked on my seduction skills and occasionally got laid (I was a somewhat tough case and took me a year before I managed to get a lay from cold approach).

I changed cities after 2 years in and made friends in no time and elevated my seduction skills at that point to a respectable level I would say.

If I could do it over again I wouldn't change anything.

Those 2 years total loner (with the odd hook up from time to time and one FWB) were really great years of my life where I became a man and found myself.

You can take whatever path you want to take.

Though I'd you're starting from scratch the best way to get a social circle is going to be cold approach and doing activities with like minded ppl (weight lifting, surfing, self development, health, whatever).

If you get good at cold approach you'll naturally make friends pretty easy any time you go out alone anyhow.

 

[Merchant's-Kin]

Hey man,

I suggest you have a look at this page.

Guys who end up on seduction forums are usually not very successful with girls from a young age.

This also usually means they aren’t very socially savvy. There are exceptions of course, but I’d say this is the rule.

With regards to everything in life you should seek balance. From my own experience my best time so far was when I felt amazing consistently, and that was when I was, in no particular order:

1. Eating healthy and consuming enough calories to make strength/mass gains

2. Sleeping well

3. Socializing regularly, had at least two friends

4. Making money, enough to save

5. Had my own place

6. Fucking a couple of hot girls every month

7. Making progress in my path in life

It was nice to fuck new girls when I wasn’t so healthy, sleeping so well, socializing so often, or making so much money, but I was able to do that because I already had a system set up where I had access to a lot of girls.

You don’t need to be a social butterfly to be skilled in cold approach game.

However, I find it can help my mood before approaching to have been socializing earlier that day. If you haven’t it might take a couple of “throwaway” sets to get your state in gear before you’re at your best.

Also, note the importance of meaningful relationships for your general wellbeing. And having access to at least a few social circles where you’re accepted.

Not having any friends is not advisable in any scenario IME.

Thank you for your reply! Thank u for the reference to the hierarchy!
Yes. There's always quite a few throwaway sets and blow-offs though that's also because of lousy social calibration that I have recently come out to understanding.
I only satisfy half the things on the list u made and it does reflect in mood and happiness and productivity not just in seduction.
After thinking about it, I think I will go about trying to make some friends I like.

tl-dr: It's not bad that all you do is learning seduction. These few years of your life while being single are the best years for you to learn the social and dating skills you need to bring more people and women into your life.

Thank u for the articles!
So it does make sense that it's possible to have girls as my number 1 hobby.
I suppose some form of winning IS necessary. If I'm just grinding and grinding all day without the feedback, everything I'm doing is going to be less productive than it can be. Perhaps I will go look for one thing where I can achieve wins. I think this is a great point in that some good social life gives u wins somewhere else.

You define "social life" as having social hobbies, social media, and meeting friends regularly. And your question is, if not having one, has a negative impact on your ability to learn seduction efficiently.

For me I think the reason you dont have a social life in the first place, is because you dont want to have a social life. Most introverts including myself dont. But you keep hearing about how guys who do have a social life, have all these nice things that you make you feel envious about. Things like access to parties, social proof, girls.

And the only reason you feel this way is because you are only focused on the positives of having a social life, and not on the work it takes to get those things or even the negatives that go along with having a social life.

As an introvert (I know you did not say anything about being an introvert so this is only my assumption), you may not feel the buring desire to want to be constantly meeting up with people regularly the way an extrovert would. You much prefer to be alone. Maybe watching an interesting movie, reading a good book, going for a long walk, playing video games or going to the gym to get your workout in (by yourself or with a fuckbuddy or a friend every so often but definitely not regularly).

So you have to ask yourself, are the negatives and the work I have to do to get the positive things I'm feeling envious of, worth it? If when you think about it, and your reaction is "nah" then there really is no reason to be envious about the positives. You know the work it takes to get those things (and the negatives that go along with it), and you decided it's not worth it.

I see that you have two main concerns that you feel not having a social life may hurt your ability to learn seduction efficently: motivation and relatability.

For me, I get more than enough motivation to keep going, being here in this community, reading field reports/practical articles/posts, having a couple of guys I can chat with (can even be offline, but I do recommend getting at least one guy who you can talk game with in real life) and helping guys out, and constantly looking for ways I can tweak and improve my game.

So that's motivation, as for being relatable without having any social media, I recommend you listen to the podcasts, Pardon My Take and Barstool Rundown (I'm also assuming you're American). They'll keep you updated on what you need to know. And give you small talk-talking material with coworkers/loose acquaintances.

Thank u for answering my question so specifically. I do understand that I have to give to get a social life. From all the replies, it seems that it is worth investing a bunch in. Based on the boost that it gives to all other parts of life.
I would not mind starting to build an Instagram perhaps.
Not sure whether I"m introvert or not. Probably mix.
Nope. Not American but common things that people listen to sounds like a good angle to approach some socialising.
I will do my best to find a guy I can talk game with in real life though lots of them are quite different from GC in their thinking and that causes some disagreement.

I had no friends or social circle when I started pickup and was 2 years before I really made good friends.

I was basically a complete loner that did my own thing and religiously worked on my seduction skills and occasionally got laid (I was a somewhat tough case and took me a year before I managed to get a lay from cold approach).

I changed cities after 2 years in and made friends in no time and elevated my seduction skills at that point to a respectable level I would say.

If I could do it over again I wouldn't change anything.

Those 2 years total loner (with the odd hook up from time to time and one FWB) were really great years of my life where I became a man and found myself.

You can take whatever path you want to take.

Though I'd you're starting from scratch the best way to get a social circle is going to be cold approach and doing activities with like minded ppl (weight lifting, surfing, self development, health, whatever).

If you get good at cold approach you'll naturally make friends pretty easy any time you go out alone anyhow.

Thank u for sharing ur experience! Sounds somewhat like what it is for me now.
As for the becoming a man thing, thank u for recommending the Traveller's Gift on ElderPrice's journal though I have not checked out the other many resources u recommended. That book has helped A LOT wrt to becoming a man and perhaps solidifying determination.
So it's quite clear that being a loner and doing this is fine but I'm starting to think that there really is some very powerful boost that can be gained from having friends so I will try that out.

 

[Mr.Rob]

As for the becoming a man thing, thank u for recommending the Traveller's Gift on EP's journal though I have not checked out the other many resources u recommended. That book has helped A LOT wrt to becoming a man and perhaps solidifying determination.

Oh awesome man, glad you checked that out. That book changed my life, I live the 7 decisions. Powerful shift when you change your thoughts and decisions.

So it's quite clear that being a loner and doing this is fine but I'm starting to think that there really is some very powerful boost that can be gained from having friends so I will try that out.

Yeah I mean don't purposely be a loner but don't let it bum you out either or pair up with lame friends as a cop out.

Self reliance is a powerful trait and the ability to not need friends with you to pickup or socialize (so long as your still able to learn how to be social and cool and make friends quick out and about) so you're self reliant socially... HUGE.

PM me if you ever have any questions or way I can help brotha

 

[YS.]

Saw this hella late...

There is nothing nore powerful than having friends (especially females) and having a social life in seduction.

A guy with a healthy social life will get to a place in 1 month where a guy without would take a year. These numbers are not exaggarations at all.

A healthy social life will:

1) Greatly diminish general anxiety.
2) You'll feel accepted, loved and validated. Causing you to seek it less from others.
3) You'll develop incredible verbals and a comfortable vibe very quickly. You'll become socially calibrated. (Simple math. If you have 10 hrs of socializing in a week. It's almost impossible to match that level of conversation with doing 10 hours of game. Especially as a beginner.)
4) You'll feel comfortable, normal and entitled.
5) You'll not feel scared of life. It's a function of feeling lonely. Our brain thinks we're vulnerable and we become neurotic and scared.
6) You'll feel more abundant and less defensive.
7) Your state and outcome in-dependance will improve tremendously.

Etc. Etc.

There is nothing more powerful than being a normal fucking guy. Can you do it without? Of course. 99% of PU guys do it like that because society rejected them. But it's the much harder way and leads to much worse results.

"What's the best advice I can give to a pickup artist? Get 6 female friends. -Micheal Sartain"

Join 2-3 social activities, don't force anything, just keep going so that you have baseline social acceptance, some personal contacts and maybe 2-3 friends.

Then get back to me just how incredibly awesome your life and your experience in life became.

I have never seen a loner pickup artist who had a successful and healthy life.

I have RARELY seen a loner pickup artist who actually had good results.

When I take out NORMAL FUCKING GUYS (not naturals) they are usually MUCH MUCH better than most PUAs. It's no secret. They have much more social acceptance and feedback. Aren't as afraid. Aren't looking for that validation. (They're already validated by their peer group.)

When something in front of you is the only thing in front of you, it becomes much bigger than what it actually is or should be.

Don't let pickup consume you.

Plus, if you socialize for 6 hours and do pickup for 6. You'd have 7 hours of socializing practice.

If you do pickup for 12 hours you'd have maybe 2 (?) hours of socialising practice. Could be less.

You wanna get good at PU? Socialize more. It'll 10x your results.
You'll become socially calibrated in no time. -The biggest issue with all beginning PUAs.- (Again not to mention; not being afraid as much, no anxiety, positive outlook, much better state, more confidence, etc. Humans weren't meant to be lonely and our brain goes into defense when we are.)

 

[Merchant's-Kin]

A guy with a healthy social life will get to a place in 1 month where a guy without would take a year. These numbers are not exaggarations at all.

When I take out NORMAL FUCKING GUYS (not naturals) they are usually MUCH MUCH better than most PUAs. It's no secret. They have much more social acceptance and feedback. Aren't as afraid. Aren't looking for that validation. (They're already validated by their peer group.)

Hey YS, thanks for your input and the emphasis that I find is much needed. Thank u also for the reference to Michael Sartain.
This is making me rethink how I want to spend time when learning seduction.
I'll start by going to make some female friends.

Then get back to me just how incredibly awesome your life and your experience in life became.

I will.

 

[aliparpar]

@YS. What you said there makes it really clear the benefits of having a social circle as someone who wants to get good with bringing and keeping women in his life. You're absolutely right. Both social circle and female friends have a role to play in your mental well-being and different social needs that you have which often gets neglected if you solely focus on getting these needs met using intimacy with girls.

All the guys who are good with girls are very sociable people - they just talk to anybody - guys and girls. As such they're often warmed up and socially lubricated. I think a noble goal would be to reach a stage where you can be like a natural talking to anyone as you go about your day, making chit chat with people and approaching as you notice someone you fancy with absolute outcome independence mentality.

I found this article really push these points forward.

How Naturals Meet Girls and Get Laid

One of the big mysteries for a lot of guys who are new to pickup is just how, exactly, men who are ‘naturals’ with women meet enough women to have the partner volume they do. If you’ve ever had a talented natural friend, you’ll notice it seems like he never does a cold approach, and spends most...

www.girlschase.com

 

[Lover]

I had a short porn relapse this morning. It didn't last long because I thought about last night when I was out with new friends and had them over for "after-party". We talked openly about our dating and sex lives, overall a great night. The people are so ambitious in other ways as well that it's rubbing off on me in a beneficial way. I never tried being surrounded by many people like this before.

And I thought to myself while watching porn "if I still want to be able to share new stories with them, I'd rather not tell them I'm spending my weekends masturbating". I put my phone away and started my day.

I would like to tell them about all the productive stuff I did instead. It's not even about being liked, it's about being able to share that good energy and offer value if they are interested in knowing more

Don't underestimate the power that the like-minded people closest to you have on you. Use it to your advantage

 

[Militarybrat]

@Velasco I could not have said it any better 2 thumbs up.

Being introverted myself the time and energy it takes to manage social circles is way more than it is worth to me.

Brat

 

[whoami]

Saw this hella late...

There is nothing nore powerful than having friends (especially females) and having a social life in seduction.

A guy with a healthy social life will get to a place in 1 month where a guy without would take a year. These numbers are not exaggarations at all.

A healthy social life will:

1) Greatly diminish general anxiety.
2) You'll feel accepted, loved and validated. Causing you to seek it less from others.
3) You'll develop incredible verbals and a comfortable vibe very quickly. You'll become socially calibrated. (Simple math. If you have 10 hrs of socializing in a week. It's almost impossible to match that level of conversation with doing 10 hours of game. Especially as a beginner.)
4) You'll feel comfortable, normal and entitled.
5) You'll not feel scared of life. It's a function of feeling lonely. Our brain thinks we're vulnerable and we become neurotic and scared.
6) You'll feel more abundant and less defensive.
7) Your state and outcome in-dependance will improve tremendously.

Etc. Etc.

There is nothing more powerful than being a normal fucking guy. Can you do it without? Of course. 99% of PU guys do it like that because society rejected them. But it's the much harder way and leads to much worse results.

"What's the best advice I can give to a pickup artist? Get 6 female friends. -Micheal Sartain"

Join 2-3 social activities, don't force anything, just keep going so that you have baseline social acceptance, some personal contacts and maybe 2-3 friends.

Then get back to me just how incredibly awesome your life and your experience in life became.

I have never seen a loner pickup artist who had a successful and healthy life.

I have RARELY seen a loner pickup artist who actually had good results.

When I take out NORMAL FUCKING GUYS (not naturals) they are usually MUCH MUCH better than most PUAs. It's no secret. They have much more social acceptance and feedback. Aren't as afraid. Aren't looking for that validation. (They're already validated by their peer group.)

When something in front of you is the only thing in front of you, it becomes much bigger than what it actually is or should be.

Don't let pickup consume you.

Plus, if you socialize for 6 hours and do pickup for 6. You'd have 7 hours of socializing practice.

If you do pickup for 12 hours you'd have maybe 2 (?) hours of socialising practice. Could be less.

You wanna get good at PU? Socialize more. It'll 10x your results.
You'll become socially calibrated in no time. -The biggest issue with all beginning PUAs.- (Again not to mention; not being afraid as much, no anxiety, positive outlook, much better state, more confidence, etc. Humans weren't meant to be lonely and our brain goes into defense when we are.)

Any tips for applying this with COVID19 going on?


Lots of hobbies that used to have in person meetings are now digital.