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"AMOG battle" How to do better next time?

DaVinciMatrixStyle

Space Monkey
space monkey
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194
I'm walking down the street and this girl is whispering something to her co-worker who is a guy (restaurant) while looking at me and laughing. I look but this guy turns to look at me smirking. As I keep walking, they don't stop staring with a smirk. I go to the shop next door and come out to go back home and they're still looking as I'm walking (I'm looking back).

I stop.

Me: You got a problem? Why you keep staring?
Guy: (Speaks broken English)
Girl nearby (They work here)

I go inside my house to drop my stuff off and comeback out.

By this time the guy is standing. He's about 6ft 2 or 3 (190cm) and I'm about 175cm.

I go up to him.

Me: Ey, what did you say earlier?
Him: What are you talking bout?
Me: If you got a problem step up, let's handle this shit.
Him: No I don't got a problem. You got a problem?
Me: What the fuck did you say earlier while you were whispering?
Him: (Speaking something in local language)

There's a girl next to him that speaks English, so I tell her
Ask him in English if he understands what I'm saying.

Him: I don't need to speak English. You speak my language.
Me: I say something else
Him: (In middle of it) Finish. Finish. Get out of here. I could tell he's starting to get agitated.

For a second, I think about just clocking this dude. This guy isn't reacting and I'm in my head a bit. Also I'm in another country so I don't.
As we're going back and forth there's a crowd around us forming. And at this point, I think about what I should do. If I escalate there's no turning back.

I go to get a water from the store next door to think about it and decide to de-escalate. (Maybe I should've waited cause it might've seemed like I was complying to him)

Then I comeback decide to put out my hand.

Me: What's your name?
Him: Name
Me: I'm Davinci. I just moved here a while ago from the states. I live right here.
Him: (In local language) Take me to the states with you. (Translated by a guy that was watching in the crowd)
Me: I laugh. (For some reason I step forward and I slap his stomach a bit) It's nice to meet you. I'll see you around more often.

We kind of share a laugh and I part ways.

From my take, this guy was in a rough situation. Although he was looking at me snickering, it was this average looking girl that instigated this whole situation. I could tell he didn't really wanna do this confrontation (saying he doesn't have a problem) but at the sametime, there was a crowd forming including his co-workers so he couldn't back down either. Hence why I decided to de-escalate.

But deep down, I still feel a bit agitated and kind of think maybe I should've just punched the dude to escalate fully since they started it. I also think may be I lost a bit of frame in that confrontation. I'm not sure.

I also train MMA regularly along with sparring, so I wasn't afraid of fight, but the consequences of fighting in a different country. But I did get into my head a bit about the consequences of fighting and him not being reactive.


Any inputs would be appreciated.
 
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Searcher

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Dec 24, 2021
Messages
224
I'm walking down the street and this girl is whispering something to her co-worker who is a guy (restaurant) while looking at me and laughing. I look but this guy turns to look at me smirking. As I keep walking, they don't stop staring with a smirk. I go to the shop next door and come out to go back home and they're still looking as I'm walking (I'm looking back).

I stop.

Me: You got a problem? Why you keep staring?
Guy: (Speaks broken English)
Girl nearby (They work here)
Dude, You came across as extremely reactive by walking up to the guy and being aggressive.

This was some random guy smirking/making jokes. Best thing to do was just smirk back (or an eye roll for extra spice) and be on your way.

There will always be random guys on the street who will smirk or snicker, going up to them will make it clear that they affected you. (Think if a celebrity will walk up to a random guy who smirks at them and start a confrontation).
 

DaVinciMatrixStyle

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Oct 26, 2020
Messages
194
Dude, You came across as extremely reactive by walking up to the guy and being aggressive.

This was some random guy smirking/making jokes. Best thing to do was just smirk back (or an eye roll for extra spice) and be on your way.

There will always be random guys on the street who will smirk or snicker, going up to them will make it clear that they affected you. (Think if a celebrity will walk up to a random guy who smirks at them and start a confrontation).
You probably right. I need to get back into meditation.
 

DaVinciMatrixStyle

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Oct 26, 2020
Messages
194
@fog instead of acting passive aggressive by putting laughing emojis like a girl, comment and reply your thoughts. If you got a point, im here for a convo. If not, cut that shit out. We're all here to learn.
 

Lobo

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
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Messages
209
What are you fighting for? What would be the point of settling the score in that situation?

It just seems insecure to confront a random guy who poses you absolutely no threat... repeatedly.

It seems you amoged yourself. Sure they said something, but it was you who got triggered.

Same with the fog thing, i dont even know what he did, but your reaction seems to blow it out of proportion. You said passive aggressive, but how are you so sure? Those two people were smiling and looking at you, but you were sure they were making fun of you.

Its not just how you're reacting to it all, your perception and how you frame seems to do you a disservice
 

DaVinciMatrixStyle

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
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Messages
194
What are you fighting for? What would be the point of settling the score in that situation?

It just seems insecure to confront a random guy who poses you absolutely no threat... repeatedly.

It seems you amoged yourself. Sure they said something, but it was you who got triggered.

Same with the fog thing, i dont even know what he did, but your reaction seems to blow it out of proportion. You said passive aggressive, but how are you so sure? Those two people were smiling and looking at you, but you were sure they were making fun of you.

Its not just how you're reacting to it all, your perception and how you frame seems to do you a disservice
Perhaps.

As far as fog, I called out his behavior and he msgd me then we had a private convo bout it.
This whole 'don't react to nothing' shit doesn't apply to every situation.
 
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Chase

Chieftan
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Messages
6,170
@DaVinciMatrixStyle,

Read this article:


The way to react to a guy looking at you and snickering is not to walk up and get into his face.

It is to react with an even lower effort response that still puts him in his place.

My go-to for these situations is just making eye contact with the guy and loudly saying, "Having a good day?" or "Having a good night?"

Puts him in a bind, because you have called him out on his secret tittering, and now he has to either confront you directly ("We were just talking about how [insult] you are"), which is him escalating things, or else he has to back down and keep his yap shut (or make some non-comment like "Yeah, great day!"), which says he lacks the stones to tell you what he is over there whispering/snickering about.

If he says something rude, you just hit him with a comeback and continue on your way:


Unless he's clever enough to come back against your comeback (in which case you just trade a few barbs with him) or he's antagonistic enough to saunter over and confront you directly (not likely, unless he has a whole crew with him to back him up), you will easily win this, and look like the lower effort party with better results, tooling him.

If he keeps his mouth shut, then you win, because you challenged him and he backed down.

Just remember: challenge back, but lower effort than he challenged.

If you put in more effort than he did (e.g., he is sitting there looking and snickering indirectly... but you march all the way over over and confront him directly), then unless you get a really clear win -- like maybe you beat the guy up and are clearly the winner -- he is going to come away with more social power... he just looks like he ruffled your feathers yet you did nothing about it (getting in his face isn't doing something; getting him to back down and/or beating him up is doing something).

The best policy is really avoiding these situations, which you can generally do by verbally acknowledging the guy in an unafraid way, which challenges him to say to you what he's whispering and snickering about. Most people won't, which makes them feel like cowards (because that's what it is... it's cowardice talking behind someone's back while being too afraid to voice it when faced directly), so you win.

Chase
 

DaVinciMatrixStyle

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
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Messages
194
@DaVinciMatrixStyle,

Read this article:


The way to react to a guy looking at you and snickering is not to walk up and get into his face.

It is to react with an even lower effort response that still puts him in his place.

My go-to for these situations is just making eye contact with the guy and loudly saying, "Having a good day?" or "Having a good night?"

Puts him in a bind, because you have called him out on his secret tittering, and now he has to either confront you directly ("We were just talking about how [insult] you are"), which is him escalating things, or else he has to back down and keep his yap shut (or make some non-comment like "Yeah, great day!"), which says he lacks the stones to tell you what he is over there whispering/snickering about.

If he says something rude, you just hit him with a comeback and continue on your way:


Unless he's clever enough to come back against your comeback (in which case you just trade a few barbs with him) or he's antagonistic enough to saunter over and confront you directly (not likely, unless he has a whole crew with him to back him up), you will easily win this, and look like the lower effort party with better results, tooling him.

If he keeps his mouth shut, then you win, because you challenged him and he backed down.

Just remember: challenge back, but lower effort than he challenged.

If you put in more effort than he did (e.g., he is sitting there looking and snickering indirectly... but you march all the way over over and confront him directly), then unless you get a really clear win -- like maybe you beat the guy up and are clearly the winner -- he is going to come away with more social power... he just looks like he ruffled your feathers yet you did nothing about it (getting in his face isn't doing something; getting him to back down and/or beating him up is doing something).

The best policy is really avoiding these situations, which you can generally do by verbally acknowledging the guy in an unafraid way, which challenges him to say to you what he's whispering and snickering about. Most people won't, which makes them feel like cowards (because that's what it is... it's cowardice talking behind someone's back while being too afraid to voice it when faced directly), so you win.

Chase
Oh wow, this is freaking awesome. This is the type of stuff I've been struggling with to get my head around.

Thanks Chase!
 

DaVinciMatrixStyle

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
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Messages
194
(getting in his face isn't doing something; getting him to back down and/or beating him up is doing something).
So a good lesson I'm taking from this is that I should be prepared to escalate all the way if I decide to escalate overtly. But a better socially calibrated way would be to respond with least effort possible and if he decides to escalate it then be prepared. But it's better that he escalates it with a crowd watching although most people won't escalate.

But @Chase I had one more clarifying question.

Call it crazy but I was ready to fight this guy although he was way bigger. But I was thrown off track and not sure how to respond.

"Hey man, if you got a problem, let's go right here" (He was inside the restaurant while I was out in the streets)

Which he responded with

"No I don't have a problem. do YOU have a problem?"

This is where I was in my head about how to respond. In my head, I wanted to fight this guy, but he responded in a way that threw me off psychologically and lost a bit of frame from my part. I was expecting him to come fight me but side stepped instead while challenging me.

If I'm challenging this guy to violence but he challenges me back the way he did, how should I respond in this situation where I felt that he was now tooling me instead of actually just violent situation.

Should I have just doubled down and said 'let's stop this talking and let's do this" or what could I have done. Because I feel that I came with lesser social power in this exchange but I'd like to analyze it for next time.
 
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Skills

Tribal Elder
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Nov 11, 2019
Messages
5,075
I know a seducer now, going to jail for this type of behavior. Everyone and their mother told him to control it for a long time.. this amog stuff is overcompensating alpha behavior nobody teaches or care about amog, one of those flawed seductions theory.
 

DaVinciMatrixStyle

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
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Messages
194
I know a seducer now, going to jail for this type of behavior. Everyone and their mother told him to control it for a long time.. this amog stuff is overcompensating alpha behavior nobody teaches or care about amog, one of those flawed seductions theory.
I wish there were more information regarding 'amogs' or how to navigate within social circles that includes men. It would definitely help. Maybe a future program? @Chase
 
a good date brings a smile to your lips... and hers

Skills

Tribal Elder
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Messages
5,075
I wish there were more information regarding 'amogs' or how to navigate within social circles that includes men. It would definitely help. Maybe a future program? @Chase
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
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Messages
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@DaVinciMatrixStyle,

What is the benefit to you of this?

Here's an exercise you could complete: "If I beat up Random Guy A, I will receive ________."

Fill in the blank with the benefit you will get from that.

I suggest you check out the book Dead or Alive: The Choice Is Yours by Geoff Thompson. Thompson was a nightclub bouncer who was in hundreds of fights throughout his life. He's seen a bunch of guys go to jail for fighting and he's seen guys die because of it.

I had to go to court over a bar fight in college. The school sent me to a guidance counselor who told me the story of some kid four years earlier who clocked another kid in the jaw; the second kid fell, hit his head on a table, had a brain aneurism, and died. The first kid went to prison for manslaughter.

Like @Skills notes, if you're going around trying to get into fights, it's likely not going to go well.

That is doubly the case if you are on your own.

I had a bodybuilder friend who told me about a group of former friends of his who were bodybuilder MMA types. These guys were jacked and highly trained as fighters, and they loved to fight. So what they would do is they would get drunk then sit around at night in bars or outside, three or four of them in a group, and just mock and jeer guys who were walking by, talking a bunch of bullshit at them, yucking it up, until some tool got all pissy about it, came over to fight them, and then they'd just all jump up and beat the crap out of the guy and any friends he had with him. That was just how they got their kicks.

You are out there wandering around by yourself, getting prickly over some guy chilling with a girl saying who knows what about you, falling into his trap, sauntering over, going from "a bit tooled" to "very tooled" as you start to kind of escalate, then back down when he does the "You sure you want to do this bro?" bit. It's not even clear what the objective is there.

If your real goal in life is to fuck a bunch of dudes up in fights, then go get swole, train in MMA for a few years, get your posse of equally pugilistic pals, and do it right.

If you just go around by yourself half-assed getting in the face of guys you think are trolling you, you are either going to end up getting your ass whooped or you'll end up in jail.

I know; I did my "angry loner phase" when I was young and dumb and not getting girls yet, and believe me -- you might think you're picking a fight with one dude, but it's amazing how often his whole crew can show up out of nowhere to ruin your night. Not fun when your head is getting punched from six different directions, and quite possibly deadly.

Read this article:


Chase
 

DaVinciMatrixStyle

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Messages
194
Like @Skills notes, if you're going around trying to get into fights, it's likely not going to go well.

That is doubly the case if you are on your own.
I'm not trying to get into fights. It's not preferable that I get into fights. However, ignoring conflicts isn't also the answer. I'm not going around looking for fight, I'm not sure where you got that implication. This was a dude who was staring at me while laughing to themselves and I asked if he had a problem, which he denied after I called him out.

Matter of fact, the PURPOSE of me making this post is to learn socially calibrated ways to respond to challenges without resorting to violence. (I.E your first reply @Chase )
going from "a bit tooled" to "very tooled" as you start to kind of escalate, then back down when he does the "You sure you want to do this bro?" bit. It's not even clear what the objective is there.

When did he imply or say "You sure you wanna do this?". If he was down, I was down. When I asked him if he wanted to take care of it, he said no. My only objective at the time was this in my head.

"Is there a problem?" (He says yes) "okay let's handle it then"

When he said, no there's no problem. Do you have a problem?

At that point I was confused. Because this dude seemed like he didn't wanna be here and don't wanna be involved.

So no, I don't even know where you got that notion that I backed down.

It was more of a case that I was pattern interrupted and left confused.

If your real goal in life is to fuck a bunch of dudes up in fights, then go get swole, train in MMA for a few years, get your posse of equally pugilistic pals, and do it right.

My goal in life is not to fuck up a bunch of dudes, but to be able to handle myself or learn via experience when I am out there especially when I'm out with a girl of a certain caliber.

I know; I did my "angry loner phase" when I was young and dumb and not getting girls yet, and believe me -- you might think you're picking a fight with one dude, but it's amazing how often his whole crew can show up out of nowhere to ruin your night. Not fun when your head is getting punched from six different directions, and quite possibly deadly.
I'm not sure where you got this "angry loner phase" for my situation. I will definitely say I prefer to be alone over having a bunch of dudes around me. Matter of fact, being a 'loner' is the starting point of many PUAs when they start their journey no? I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here, but I am out here alone trying to get better socially, so if you're implying that it's a negative trait to do so, I'm a bit surprised you'd imply that when you infact started as a 'loner' who worked on social skills. Isn't conflict resolution part of social skills especially when youre out with a girl and there's strangers starting shit with you? So it would be better to learn those social skills when I'm out alone.

I will also say I stick out like a sore thumb because I'm in countries where I'm the minority. (Think being black in East Europe or Asia) (White in Africa) (Asian in all white neighborhood or europe)

If your real goal in life is to fuck a bunch of dudes up in fights, then go get swole, train in MMA for a few years, get your posse of equally pugilistic pals, and do it right.

If you just go around by yourself half-assed getting in the face of guys you think are trolling you, you are either going to end up getting your ass whooped or you'll end up in jail.

My goal is to be experienced in conflicts where other dudes try to tool you or AMOG you. I've been in conflicts to where they backed down or I did throw down. However, this was one of those situations where I was left confused and pattern-interrupted especially with a much bigger guy. I DO need to be better at handling conflicts because I've been out with a girl before where dudes WOULD start shit with me. In that case, if I ignored it like a chump, the girl would lose all respect for me. (Though I understand a lot of people would say it's not worth it)

I'm not sure if your replying with a bit of hostility @Chase but out of all people, I would've thought you would know what I'm trying to get at. I read your articles such as https://www.girlschase.com/article/respect-maintenance-conflict-escalation-de-escalation.

I am not the only guy who follows this rule of 'always escalate'. There are plenty of men who arrive at it independently. Always they are guys who do not go looking for trouble, because 'looking for trouble' + 'always escalate' means you are going to constantly be in situations you need to then constantly escalate.

Thus, you will see a trend:

  1. The people who go looking for / stirring up trouble tend to back down when confronted hard/directly
  2. On the flip side, you need to be real careful with firm-looking people who don't seek out trouble"

You're replying to me as if I'm the one going around seeking out conflicts. However, it wasn't the case in this scenario.
 
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Alpha13SC

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Sep 13, 2021
Messages
343
I'm not trying to get into fights. It's not preferable that I get into fights. However, ignoring conflicts isn't also the answer. I'm not going around looking for fight, I'm not sure where you got that implication. This was a dude who was staring at me while laughing to themselves and I asked if he had a problem, which he denied after I called him out.

Matter of fact, the PURPOSE of me making this post is to learn socially calibrated ways to respond to challenges without resorting to violence. (I.E your first reply @Chase )


When did he imply or say "You sure you wanna do this?". If he was down, I was down. When I asked him if he wanted to take care of it, he said no. My only objective at the time was this in my head.

"Is there a problem?" (He says yes) "okay let's handle it then"

When he said, no there's no problem. Do you have a problem?

At that point I was confused. Because this dude seemed like he didn't wanna be here and don't wanna be involved.

So no, I don't even know where you got that notion that I backed down.

It was more of a case that I was pattern interrupted and left confused.



My goal in life is not to fuck up a bunch of dudes, but to be able to handle myself or learn via experience when I am out there especially when I'm out with a girl of a certain caliber.


I'm not sure where you got this "angry loner phase" for my situation. I will definitely say I prefer to be alone over having a bunch of dudes around me. Matter of fact, being a 'loner' is the starting point of many PUAs when they start their journey no? I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here, but I am out here alone trying to get better socially, so if you're implying that it's a negative trait to do so, I'm a bit surprised you'd imply that when you infact started as a 'loner' who worked on social skills. Isn't conflict resolution part of social skills especially when youre out with a girl and there's strangers starting shit with you?

I will also say I stick out like a sore thumb because I'm in countries where I'm the minority. (Think being black in East Europe or Asia) (White in Africa) (Asian in all white neighborhood or europe)



My goal is to be experienced in conflicts where other dudes try to tool you or AMOG you. I've been in MANY conflicts to where they backed down or I did throw down. However, this was one of those situations where I was left confused and pattern-interrupted especially with a much bigger guy.

I'm not sure if your replying with a bit of hostility @Chase but out of all people, I would've thought you would know what I'm trying to get at. I read your articles such as https://www.girlschase.com/article/respect-maintenance-conflict-escalation-de-escalation.



You're replying to me as if I'm the one going around seeking out conflicts. However, it wasn't the case in this scenario.
Lol. You missed entirely @Chase s point.

Yes. You are seeking conflicts here.

And no, I don t want to discuss it further. Because it s self explanatory.
 

topcat

Tribal Elder
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Messages
900
You're replying to me as if I'm the one going around seeking out conflicts. However, it wasn't the case in this scenario.
you were though. why couldn’t you have ignored? what if it was in your head and he wasn’t actually laughing at you?

you read into things a lot, comes off near paranoid. could you not have just let it pass?

i was in the same scenario last week. two dudes chuckling at what i assumed was my expense. perhaps my outfit. perhaps my hair. perhaps nothing to do with me, who knows. it meant fuck all at the end of the day.

am i less alpha because i didn’t inquire further? less attractive to females because of it? often it’s best to mind your own business.

i’ve known of unhinged guys who will damn near kill a guy for challenging them.

there’s always somebody badder than you out there and crazy enough to prove it.

be careful out there..
 

DaVinciMatrixStyle

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
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Messages
194
am i less alpha because i didn’t inquire further? less attractive to females because of it? often it’s best to mind your own business.

i’ve known of unhinged guys who will damn near kill a guy for challenging them.

there’s always somebody badder than you out there and crazy enough to prove it.

I know what you're saying. I also agree that there's always someone badder than me out there. That's a given cause I get my ass whooped plenty in sparring sessions. And street fight is also way more violent as there are no rules unlike cage fighting sparring sessions.

However, I want to have experience under my belt with conflict resolutions because it happens when I'm out with a girl, I def don't wanna look like a bitch. I may be going over the top, but isn't that how people learn + build confidence + build frame.

This isn't a case of seduction yes, but even with a girl, the best way to cold approach is to just go direct. As @Chase would say 'if you want to be the King, you should be the Jester before becoming the King.


If I'm putting out an interaction like this, it's not to post about how 'bad-ass' I am. It's about learning subtle ques so that I have lessons for me to handle these types of conflicts more smoothly. Are there smarter ways to go about it? Sure. But just like cold approaching women is better for learning seduction skills instead of a social circle, strangers are also great for learning conflict skills. And yes, I understand there's an element of danger. But it is what it is.

It's almost as if yall expect people to be this 'super zen non-reactive' person without going through the trials and errors of life. You don't just become this 'non-reactive' dude without going through the conflicts to settle the insecurities you have.

If none of you had insecurities about women in the first place, you would've never worked on your seduction skills to become confident and come to this forum. Once you tackled your insecurities via getting better with women, you become more chill. This is the similar situation towards conflicts.
 
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DaVinciMatrixStyle

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
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Messages
194
you were though. why couldn’t you have ignored? what if it was in your head and he wasn’t actually laughing at you?

you read into things a lot, comes off near paranoid. could you not have just let it pass?

i was in the same scenario last week. two dudes chuckling at what i assumed was my expense. perhaps my outfit. perhaps my hair. perhaps nothing to do with me, who knows. it meant fuck all at the end of the day.
As far as letting it pass, what if they were actually laughing at you? I'm taking this point of view because when I'm alone, I can learn conflicts with strangers without the consequences of losing conflicts or the reputation that comes with it. So I see these things as opportunities to hone my conflict skills so that I am prepared for when it happens when I'm out with a girl I'm dating or anything like that. I'm putting myself into the fire to build my conflict resolution skills so to speak just like you don't practice seduction skills with your social circle or anyone you interact with repeatedly.

If you wanna be zen about conflicts or non-reactive, it comes from having been in it multiple times that you know what it's gonna be. It's like telling a boxer who just started to be non-reactive when your sparring partner starts throwing punches at you. It won't happen. But as he places himself in that situation over and over, after the nth time, you start to relax and become non reactive. That's where I'm trying to get to. You don't get there by ignoring every conflict you could be involved in.
 
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