@DaVinciMatrixStyle,
Not my intention to seem hostile. Didn't seem like I was quite getting through with message #1 though.
My initial response was about "here's how you retain maximum social power and effortlessly put challengers in their places."
Your response to that was about how you "wanted to fight this guy" and he just threw you off track.
You fighting the guy is not you retaining maximum social power. It is you putting yourself in a gambling situation where you exert a bunch of energy, possibly beat the guy up, possibly get beat up, plus add a bunch of potential wild card outcomes into the mix:
- Probability one of you dies (you get in his face & he pulls a knife you didn't realize he had and airs your insides out)
- Probability a cop walks by / gets called and you get arrested
- Probability you get deported from the country you're in or thrown into a foreign prison
I don't know what the probability of any of those are, but they're not 0.
Then you need to look at what you get in return: potential ego boost, maybe?
If it goes your way?
Matter of fact, the PURPOSE of me making this post is to learn socially calibrated ways to respond to challenges without resorting to violence. (I.E your first reply
@Chase )
That was what I was addressing in my initial response.
The attitude of "actually I
wanted to fight him but he just threw me off" was what I addressed in response #2.
When did he imply or say "You sure you wanna do this?". If he was down, I was down. When I asked him if he wanted to take care of it, he said no. My only objective at the time was this in my head.
He was doing something called "off-balancing." You use it to put your opponent in a state of confusion prior to a fight.
Serious fighters are not doing this approach a guy, chest puffed out, "U got a problem, mate?" escalation dance. If they want to fight you they just walk right up to you and clock you. Or if you walk up to them doing the "Oi, mate!" thing, they just immediately clock you (or stab you, if they're the stabby types). No escalation, no back-and-forth, just hit or stab.
Whenever you see a guy doing the "puff chest, get in face, talk about problems" dance, you know this is a guy trying to work up to a fight, who you can either a.) defuse or b.) cold cock while he's still working himself up. He's totally at your mercy.
Here is the social context you are not understanding:
YOU: [approach, bristling for a fight, but unready for one, needing to escalate first] "Hey man, if you got a problem, let's go right here."
What that is doing is giving 100% of the power to him. He can respond in a variety of ways:
- Challenge you back: "Yeah, I got a problem with you. What're you gonna do about it?"
- Defuse the situation: "What are you talking about, man? Say, that's a nice shirt, where'd you get it?"
- Call your bluff: "No, I don't have a problem. Do you have a problem?"
Any of those give more social power to him. Challenging you back is telling you to put up or shut up. Either you put on a show or you're a wuss. Defusing it makes him look like the dominant party deciding how things will go (you went all the way over there to fight and he got you to just talk about something else then leave). Calling your bluff makes you look like you're full of hot air: "I don't want to fight but if you want to we can bro."
I've done the bluff-call several times with guys in tense situations. I've never encountered a guy who knew how to react.
A guy will be saying, "You wanna go man?" and you just go "I mean, not really, but if you want to we can. Should we? If we need to I'm down."
Freaks most guys out. The fact that you don't really care and are nonchalant about fighting them forces them to stop and reconsider if they really think they can win a fight with you. If they can, then why are you so chill about it? Normally you are only going to be chill if you are a very experienced fighter and you know you can fuck them up.
My goal in life is not to fuck up a bunch of dudes, but to be able to handle myself or learn via experience when I am out there especially when I'm out with a girl of a certain caliber.
In that case, see my initial response.
I'm just not sure where the whole "I was totally ready to scrap" thing comes in.
I'm not sure where you got this "angry loner phase" for my situation. I will definitely say I prefer to be alone over having a bunch of dudes around me. Matter of fact, being a 'loner' is the starting point of many PUAs when they start their journey no? I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here, but I am out here alone trying to get better socially, so if you're implying that it's a negative trait to do so, I'm a bit surprised you'd imply that when you infact started as a 'loner' who worked on social skills. Isn't conflict resolution part of social skills especially when youre out with a girl and there's strangers starting shit with you? So it would be better to learn those social skills when I'm out alone.
What I read there is that a.) you are indeed a loner, and b.) yes, you get angry at minor slights from people and blow up and try to fight them, but c.) what's so wrong with that?
See the lovers vs. fighters article I linked in my earlier post.
You are pursuing the fighter path right now. It's better than nothing I suppose (better than the "average dude" path), but if your actual goal is the same as your professed goal (i.e., superior social abilities), fighter is not the optimal route to that.
I will also say I stick out like a sore thumb because I'm in countries where I'm the minority. (Think being black in East Europe or Asia) (White in Africa) (Asian in all white neighborhood or europe)
I have spent much of my life as "white dude in all-black area", "white dude in all-Latino area", "white dude in all-Asian area." I am aware of the sore-thumb-sticking issue.
The thing you do NOT want to do as the sore thumb is go around challenging hammers all the time. Instead you want to look like a non-sore thumb. See this article:
Street smarts are something that are invaluable to know, but that you won't know if you haven't grown up in areas that expose you to dangerous or dicey situations. You won't learn street smarts in the halls of a private high school or the sidewalks of an affluent middle class suburb. Instead...
www.girlschase.com
Just in general: when you are out of your element, surrounded by people who are like each other but not like you, where you are an obvious outsider, it is good to seem strong, but dangerous to be pugilistic.
You wouldn't climb into a gorilla pen and pick a fight with one of the gorillas there. Don't go picking fights with one of a group of people who aren't like you when everyone around is like them and not you. You seem to be somewhat aware of people's tribalistic nature, but I do not think you realize how strongly tribal humans really are.
I'm reminded of a story a Chinese buddy told me of a pair of big, tall, well-muscled African guys who'd been drinking in a Chinese bar. These two guys got into a fight with two smaller, thinner Chinese guys and started beating those two Chinese guys up. As my friend watched, a horde of about eight or so random Chinese that had been watching joined in and descended on the two African guys. My friend (laughing as he was telling me this story) said "Those two African guys were way bigger than any of the Chinese guys, but Chinese guys ganged up on them and
whooped their ass!" The African guys ended up beaten to unconsciousness and left on the street.
Just think of groups of people as akin to troops of gorillas and you will have a better mental picture of what picking a fight with one of the individuals from a group may open you up to (not necessarily... not everyone is tribal, and sometimes maybe you'll pick a fight with another loner, or some guy away from his tribe. But you won't know
for sure until you do).
You're replying to me as if I'm the one going around seeking out conflicts. However, it wasn't the case in this scenario.
He:
- Cast a few looks
- Laughed / said stuff, maybe about you or who knows what even. Maybe he was talking about his favorite funny TV show, while sometimes staring at you because he never sees people who look like you
You:
- Approached his position
- Got in his face
- Told him you wanted to "go right here"
- Said in this forum thread you were ready to throw down and the only reason you didn't was because the guy confused you
- Now are saying you "weren't going around seeking out conflicts in this case"
???
Kinda feels like I'm watching this one:
When I was in my angry loner phase, after the judge upheld my citation for that fight and said I was as much to blame for it as the other guy, I got all pissed off about it. I even wrote a couple of songs about how the whole system was against me, the justice system was rigged, police were out to get me, etc.
Now I look back and I'm like, "That whole thing was my fault. Geez, that was dumb. The judge was right."
You are seeing things a certain way, that does not gel with reality, due to the glasses you have on right now.
The sooner you can take those "ready to fight the world" glasses off and start looking at things another way, the better it will be for your social development.
Chase