"AMOG battle" How to do better next time?

[topcat]

I know what you're saying. I also agree that there's always someone badder than me out there. That's a given cause I get my ass whooped plenty in sparring sessions. And street fight is also way more violent as there are no rules unlike cage fighting sparring sessions.

However, I want to have experience under my belt with conflict resolutions because it happens when I'm out with a girl, I def don't wanna look like a bitch. I may be going over the top, but isn't that how people learn + build confidence + build frame.

This isn't a case of seduction yes, but even with a girl, the best way to cold approach is to just go direct. As @Chase would say 'if you want to be the King, you should be the Jester before becoming the King.

Sprezzatura, Effort, and Investing

Question from a reader named Sam yesterday: Hi Chase, Just wanted to say thanks for all the great advice and content you post here. Some of this stuff is pure gold because I have had a few "ah ha" moments, especially about the interchangeability of value and good feelings, and this I think will...

www.girlschase.com

If I'm putting out an interaction like this, it's not to post about how 'bad-ass' I am. It's about learning subtle ques so that I have lessons for me to handle these types of conflicts more smoothly. Are there smarter ways to go about it? Sure. But just like cold approaching women is better for learning seduction skills instead of a social circle, it's also great for learning conflict skills. And yes, I understand there's an element of danger.

well in you’re case you went uber neo-direct. you basically approached from behind, pinched her butt and said “hey babe vant to sex?” except in that situation there’s very little chance you’ll get stabbed.

given that an uncalibrated challenge to a man comes with increased odds of death, prison or maiming, it would serve you to be more tactful in addressing such.

basically if you have nothing considerable to lose by ignoring the challenge, then ignore it. who cares what an ugly dude says or thinks

 

[DaVinciMatrixStyle]

well in you’re case you went uber neo-direct. you basically approached from behind, pinched her butt and said “hey babe vant to sex?” except in that situation there’s very little chance you’ll get stabbed.

given that the chances of an uncalibrated challenge to a man comes with increased odds of death, prison or maiming, it would serve you to be more tactful in addressing such.

basically if you have nothing considerable to lose by ignoring the challenge, then ignore it. who cares what an ugly dude says or thinks

I addressed that there's an element of danger in the streets. The point is sometimes it gets to a point where you can't ignore it when you're out with a girl for example. Then what? You have zero experience. How should this be solved?

 

[topcat]

As far as letting it pass, what if they were actually laughing at you? I'm taking this point of view because when I'm alone, I can learn conflicts with strangers without the consequences of losing conflicts or the reputation that comes with it. So I see these things as opportunities to hone my conflict skills so that I am prepared for when it happens when I'm out with a girl I'm dating or anything like that. I'm putting myself into the fire to build my conflict resolution skills so to speak just like you don't practice seduction skills with your social circle or anyone you interact with repeatedly.

if they were who cares. if i challenge them and win, do a horde of sluts come out from no where and suck my dick? i just vanquished two losers woopee. waste of time.

if i did challenge them and they stabbed me (likely based on the area i was in) would it have been worth it? hell no. there’s no pussy in the grave.

move on and live to fuck another day. who cares about men and their lame opinions. 99.99% of them are a waste of space anyway..

 

[topcat]

I addressed that there's an element of danger in the streets. The point is sometimes it gets to a point where you can't ignore it when you're out with a girl for example. Then what? You have zero experience. How should this be solved?

if she doesn’t like how you addressed it get a new one. fighting to impress a female is retarded.

that’s the last thing i’ve got to say on the matter.

 

[DaVinciMatrixStyle]

if she doesn’t like how you addressed it get a new one. fighting to impress a female is retarded.

that’s the last thing i’ve got to say on the matter.

Good point worthy of thinking about

 

[Will_V]

@DaVinciMatrixStyle you are allowing someone, anyone, to effortlessly create a frame that by your own rules, means you have to fight. That means you don't get to choose your path, it is determined by others. You would put your life and future at risk at someone else's whim.

Real life is not jail. You aren't cooped up out there with guys who you can never escape from who will make your life miserable if you don't stand up for yourself.

How many people do you know, people who are stable, popular and socially confident, who you have ever seen threatening to fight, let alone fighting? It doesn't happen. People try to tool them all the time, especially when someone has status in a group, people try to bring them down. But how many times do they allow it to 'force' them to go and start a fight? Never. Because these people are in control, they don't have to have validation from people they don't care about.

Fighting is for the 'stray dogs' of society, those people with nothing to lose, who have created an identity out of 'never backing down' or something like that because it's the only value they can find in themselves. But for those who think they are more, who want more, who want to navigate society at a more complex and rich level, who want to rise to positions of real power (which careless fighting will always lock you out of), the first thing you have to be able to do is refuse to step into any frame that takes you further away from where you want to go.

 

[StrayDog]

Fighting is for the 'stray dogs' of society, those people with nothing to lose, who have created an identity out of 'never backing down' or something like that because it's the only value they can find in themselves.

Hey, you got something to say, bro, you say it to my face

 

[Will_V]

Hey, you got something to say, bro, you say it to my face

Lol no offense bro

 

[StrayDog]

If you go acting like you have something to prove over the smallest of transgressions, people are going to start thinking you are not worth much more than that. Conversely, as they say, a king suffers no fools, or the words of fools for that matter.

I can recall at least three times in my adult life when some dude was looking for a fight (which really had nothing to do with me). Each time it played out very similarly. He is acting all big and bad and in my space for no reason, trying to raise my hackles. Talking all sorts of inane trash, trying to make me look small. I acted bored and confused by his nonsense (this was my authentic emotional response). Since I really had nothing to prove to this dude, or anyone around me for that matter (one time at a party, another on a date, and the third at a bar I frequent), I didn't step into the frame that I for some reason would have anything to prove. It didn't take long for him to direct his pitiable display toward other endeavors, or for his friends to calm him down and apologize profusely for his foolish behavior. Every time this happened, I quickly became seen to be a cool, calm, and collected individual. Nobody looked down on me because I didn't step to this punks disrespect and let him 'tool' me. On the contrary, everyone expressed a great deal of respect for how little I was affected by the dude.

Check out Meditations on Violence by Sgt. Rory Miller. It is a must-read. Rory Miller is a seasoned corrections officer at maximum-security prisons. He has seen some of the gnarliest shit a man can see firsthand. He basically breaks down society's (and particularly the culture around martial arts training) conception of what self-defense is. He illustrates just how chaotic and unpredictable real-world violence is. He goes on to show how there is really very little physical training one can actually do to prepare oneself for real-world violence. He breaks down the criminal mind and shows us what drives people to act violently. He also breaks down all the potential consequences of engaging in violent altercations (none of which are positive) Ultimately he illustrates how the best form of self-defense is having a sharp mind and a cool head. Learning how to recognize predator behavioral patterns (even minor offenses like AMOGING and tooling someone have a predatory element and can lead to worst. Tooling someone and seeing how they respond is one form of 'interviewing' a predator will do to see if they have an easy victim. Someone who they can pull into that frame and feels like they have something to prove, for instance) deescalate altercations, or avoid them all together.

Anyway @DaVinciMatrixStyle, you're a king, bro. Don't waste time with such petty attempts to bring you down. Bigger fish to fry.

 

[DaVinciMatrixStyle]

@Will_V @StrayDog

Thanks for putting things in perspective guys.
One thing I want to point out is the conflicting messages I receive on @girlschase.

I see the things that you guys are pointing out where in society, people who are cooler and have much bigger things to try in life aren't boggled down by the small minds.

In this case, Hector recommends becoming full petty with people even if you are overreacting at first. And I agree with this esp when you're learning.


I'm guessing this is a conundrum where I will have to eventually have to find a balance.

The solution seems to include both finding a bigger purpose that I truly believe in and really honing down my fighting capabilities.

 

[hey_lover]

Care less about what people think. Don't feel like you have to prove anything to anyone. Raise the bar to what annoys you which by extension will raise the bar to what prompts you to draw for arms. Reframe people watching you as them checking you out in a positive way. They were giggling cause the girl wanted to suck your dick and the guy was her beta bux as the internet parlance would describe it.

Build value within your life so you won't feel compelled enough to threaten it by fighting random people on the street whose life you have no insight in to. People on the street initiating conflicts often have nothing to lose. Become someone with something to lose so de-escalation is your first instinct. If you react so easily to potential antanogism thus leading to conflicts, then the world will serve you that dish every single day for the rest of your life.

 

[DaVinciMatrixStyle]

Care less about what people think. Don't feel like you have to prove anything to anyone. Raise the bar to what annoys you which by extension will raise the bar to what prompts you to draw for arms. Reframe people watching you as them checking you out in a positive way. They were giggling cause the girl wanted to suck your dick and the guy was her beta bux as the internet parlance would describe it.

Build value within your life so you won't feel compelled enough to threaten it by fighting random people on the street whose life you have no insight in to. People on the street initiating conflicts often have nothing to lose. Become someone with something to lose so de-escalation is your first instinct. If you react so easily to potential antanogism thus leading to conflicts, then the world will serve you that dish every single day for the rest of your life.

Roger that brother. Thanks for the pep talk and reframing things.

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

Okay, interesting situation. It comes down to a few things,

1. Picking battles where victory means something and losing isn't so bad
2. Maintaining self respect without giving other people control of you

My response to this would depend what part of my life I was in. A few months out of the year, I'll be avoidant of conflict and peaceful. A few months out of the year, I wanna start shit with everyone and argue with people. Who knows if it's Mercury retrograde, demonic possession, chemicals, the weather, or what the fuck ever, but I go in phases like the moon.

My overall opinion is that putting people in their place is fun and actually justified in a lot of cases.

People should NOT think they can treat you however they want. That's a really bad habit to get into, especially if you're going to be around these people a lot. And if your modus operandi is to let everything go, that's a bad precent for the rest of your life. Even the Buddha would address people's insults/behaviors, as would his Enlightened monks. Of course, none of their motivation is "this is fun" or because they have an ego to protect. Their ONLY motivations would be

1. does it help this person?
2. Does it protect the reputation of my character/the monastic brotherhood

The Buddha taught for 40 years with the respect of kings and almost everyone during his time alive. This was true for many reasons, but one of which is reputation control.

There's a function to standing up for yourself. It serves a purpose.

1. People don't interfere/interrupt you and your life
2. People listen and learn from you

Having the respect of people is very useful. It benefits those around you, too, because if you do indeed have virtue/wisdom to spread, it makes them take your words seriously. It also affords you peace, because people are less likely to bother you and let you enjoy your life (though it could make you a beacon for too much attention/needy behavior, but that's much easier to navigate than getting bullied).

The question you need to ask is whether or not this situation requires/benefits from you responding and HOW to respond.

I'll give you a few scenarios to see what I mean.

I recently got into an argument with my immigration lawyers. The girl I was supposed to meet for a small errand (that was superfluous anyways) got upset that I was 30 minutes late to our first meeting, but there was a miscommunication and I didn't even agree to meet then. But then we rescheduled and she even texted me that she'd be late, because she's not punctual at all and even joked that to me several times our first time meeting a week before that. Well, at 3:21, a minute after when we were supposed to meet (agreed upon time), she texted me "you're late," which was super weird/aggressive considering I was only a few minutes away and she actually TOLD me she'd be late (and I had a text to prove it). Then she told me she was going to charge me 100 euros and my behavior was absurd. I told her "I'm not coming." I called the main lawyer and before I can even speak, she started jumping down my throat telling me this is absurd and I need to pay for the other lawyer's time.

I was so fucking pissed. I barely contained myself.

But I calmly explained the entire situation to her, but also threw in a few insults, because fuck her for not having the basic respect to ASK me my side of the situation and just assume the other chick was giving the full story. I even added in "I don't know how you do it here in Romania, but in America, you would NEVER speak to a client this way. I'm five minutes from firing you and hiring another lawyer, this is ridiculous." Well, at the end of my explanation, she got submissive and apologized and said she didn't hear the full story. Then, I said well I appreciate you admitting that and to be honest, I'm willing to pay for her time because technically I did waste her time, but not KNOWINGLY and am willing to admit I'm wrong. Then everything was resolved. I was tempted to just shove it down her pussy more because fuck that cunt for not even getting the full story, but I think I'd made my point and didn't press it further.


Why was it important to stand up for myself there and get confrontational? Because they're doing a job for me and them respecting me means they'll do things promptly. But there's also my own ego - I don't want to spend time around people who don't respect me, especially when I'm fucking paying them. Also, I didn't want to pay that 100 euros and she dropped that when I told her how her own employee was the one who fucked up more than I did.

Moreover, the main lawyer learned a lesson about dealing with clients and got a taste of American exceptionalism (Romania has the worst customer service I've ever seen. These people are just awful with customer service and deserve all their poverty). Maybe she'll have more business in the future by treating clients better.

Here's another situation.

I was getting my girl HER immigration situation figured out (she's Ukranian and we escaped the war together). I asked the lady scheduling appointments for all the Ukrainians if I'm eligible for the same protection, since I have a Ukranian permit. After seeing that I only had temporary residency in Ukraine, not permanent, she said I wasn't elligible. But then she asked me, "where are you from?" When I told her America, she got this really bitchy look on her face and said "you don't need protection" in a really condescending tone.

I was BEYOND pissed that she talked that way when I'd had explosions hitting within 1km of me for a week and even had an artillery round hit 500m from my house. She only judged me because I was American.

I first laughed awkwardly, because I was just stunned at her audacity. I couldn't believe she said that.

Then I stewed on it and worked myself into an insane rage. I actually wanted to hurt her.

After calming myself, I realized that NOT confronting her isn't the right thing to do, either, but I obviously can't just fuck up this chick for being a bitch lol. So what to do?

I walked up to her and stared at her like I was about to rip her to pieces and asked her why she'd been rude. Now, I have kinda learned how to "hone" my anger. My eyes looked like I was legit going to murder her, but my tone and body language was very calm and my voice didn't betray any hostile intentions. But my eyes were pure killer. Again, to make this super fucking clear, don't assault people for being assholes. Under no circumstance. The only time you should get physical with people is if they lay their hands on you or your girl. Anything less, and 99% of the time getting physical is stupid as fuck.

But my eyes were VERY fucking murdery.

When she turned and saw me death-staring her, she actually physically jumped. Then she asked me what I need and got VERY apologetic, submissive and helpful.

This kind of pissed me off even more, because it's like "Why do I have to act like this to get respect?"

Of course, I could have just called her out when she first said the cunty comment and handled it with less murder rage, but, you know, things are messy sometimes.

Anyways, she ended up calling over some other dude to help me (not in like a "HELP ME IM BEING ATTACKED WAY," by the way, I was being very polite with my words). He was very helpful and gave me the full lowdown, but I was sure to explicitly tell her that her comment was rude and that she shouldn't make assumptions about people without knowing the full story. So I made her shit her pants with killer eyes, told her she was rude, and got the help I needed.

Nothing was gained really except information and respect, but I'm glad I did it. Also, she got humbled, because I had watched this chick interact with others and she was always pissy/passive-aggressive/rude. Maybe some other people got better service from her, because her job is to help people. I'm sure she's tired and stressed, but if working with people is hard for you, you shouldn't be helping refugees fleeing a fucking war. Putting her in her place was awesome and an act of charity, to a certain extent (sounds totally preposterous and self-gratifying, but it's true nonetheless - she'll think twice at least for that day before acting like a cunt to people who have a WAY worse life than her).

Those were two cool situations where standing up for myself was the right move.

Here's a situation where I didn't escalate it more and it's a good thing I didn't.

Some guy drove past me and my girl quite close and I started cursing at him for not slowing down. I even said the worst insult in Romanian to him while he was driving away and I was geting into my Uber. As I got into my Uber, he actually stopped his car and got out. He moved slightly in front of his car, but didn't actually get closer to our car, so it was more of one of those "i'm gonna act tough like I'm gonna fuck you up but not actually make the move but seem tough by moving forward." I considered getting out of the car, then I did the math and realized getting into a fight when I'm still trying to get my permit to live in Romania again and if I got in any trouble i'd leave my girl all alone in a foreign country she knows little about....or maybe he has a knife...or maybe he's in a gang....or maybe I lose the fight and get fucked upp....or maybe I win the fight and really hurt him and bad things happen....

Is any of that worth me feeling like a man and standing up to him? Probably not. and my girl's only response is "what was that guy's problem?" She didn't think any less of me for not getting out of the car. It was only me who felt a little bad for not fully committing and fucking him up.

Now, if he'd actually walked up to our taxi and started something actually physical, then yes, I'd fight as if my life and my girl's life depended on it, but he was just posturing. If he was intent on defending his own honor for me telling him to go fuck his mother's corpse (what I said), then he'd have actually gotten up to me and fought me, but he just postured outside his car 20 feet away.

But had I gotten out of the car, he would have been compelled to escalate, because this gypsy peasant has nothing going on - he's big and fat and old (probably late 30's or early 40's) and poor (shitty car). His only possession is his ego. And he's going to think he can beat me since i'm smaller. I've trained with guys as big as him and can handle him, but he still has probably 60lbs on me and a few inches. It's not a sure thing that I'd win. But he'd be very likely to take the risk cuz 1. his ego is his prize possession 2. I'm not physically intimidating

What would I win? What would I lose?

He serves no function. He's not giving me information, he's not working for me, he's not in my social circle, he's not a girl who I'm trying to fuck - he literally serves no purpose to my life.

The only drive there would be to show off to my girl, and for LOTS of men, that's motivation enough, but if you have a girl who looks at you less for not confronting retards over small things, then she's a bitch and you shouldn't date her.

Other than him physically touching you and her or like seriously insulting her in her face there's no reason to get physical.

But confronting people does serve a function and shouldn't be off the table. Shrugging everything off isn't always the best strategy. The best strategy is the one that gives you the benefits you want/need and not costing you too much, unless you're forced into a situation where all choices have great risks.

But right now you're growing as a man and deciding what's important to you. Chase's comment wasn't calling you a lonely loser or anything like that - it was to illustrate that you may be going through a phase SIMILAR to his self-described loner phase where you're deciding what's important to you and whether or not you should stand up for yourself in what situations.

You gotta do what you think is right, but realize that life is brutal and you dying in some random encounter isn't some far fetched possibility (or hurting someone in your rage and going to jail). Who knows what you need to do to feel less insulted by random people and also feel secure that you've solidified your manhood. I once fought 7 dudes after one of them punched a client of mine in Norway. I also decked a guy in california who got in my face too many times after threatening me. I also fought this guy who was attacking my friend. All 3 situations i've escaped completely unscathed (miraculously). I've been close to fighting in DOZENS of other situations, but either through intimidating the other guy into non-action, rhetoric, or maybe just plain luck, it never escalated. I've had guys want to fight me over women, too, but it's never gone to blows. Only been in 3 actual physical confrontations and I'm happy with that. Me laughing in excitement at 7 dudes approaching me on the sidewalk is always a fond memory. I knew that I'd stand up for myself even if faced with crazy odds (this was after I decked one fucker and hooked another who had put me into a chokehold). But who knows? In any of those experiences I could have died or gotten arrested. They certainly satisfied my "be a man" desires, but every single situation could have been better handled, I think.

So after reading all that, I want you to go through your situation and do an analysis based on what I said. How would you react now with this new insight?

 

[Terms]

Care less about what people think. Don't feel like you have to prove anything to anyone. Raise the bar to what annoys you which by extension will raise the bar to what prompts you to draw for arms. Reframe people watching you as them checking you out in a positive way. They were giggling cause the girl wanted to suck your dick and the guy was her beta bux as the internet parlance would describe it.

Build value within your life so you won't feel compelled enough to threaten it by fighting random people on the street whose life you have no insight in to. People on the street initiating conflicts often have nothing to lose. Become someone with something to lose so de-escalation is your first instinct. If you react so easily to potential antanogism thus leading to conflicts, then the world will serve you that dish every single day for the rest of your life.

This. For any AMOG type question that involves an interpretation of something happening indirectly.

Best to only worry about AMOG attempts that are direct: a dude speaking or acting directly towards you.

This indirect stuff is either a poor interpretation of what's actually happening, or a dude so weak he has to resort to passive aggressiveness and is thus too pathetic for your time and attention.

 

[Chase]

@DaVinciMatrixStyle,

Not my intention to seem hostile. Didn't seem like I was quite getting through with message #1 though.

My initial response was about "here's how you retain maximum social power and effortlessly put challengers in their places."

Your response to that was about how you "wanted to fight this guy" and he just threw you off track.

You fighting the guy is not you retaining maximum social power. It is you putting yourself in a gambling situation where you exert a bunch of energy, possibly beat the guy up, possibly get beat up, plus add a bunch of potential wild card outcomes into the mix:

• Probability one of you dies (you get in his face & he pulls a knife you didn't realize he had and airs your insides out)
• Probability a cop walks by / gets called and you get arrested
• Probability you get deported from the country you're in or thrown into a foreign prison

I don't know what the probability of any of those are, but they're not 0.

Then you need to look at what you get in return: potential ego boost, maybe? If it goes your way?

Matter of fact, the PURPOSE of me making this post is to learn socially calibrated ways to respond to challenges without resorting to violence. (I.E your first reply @Chase )

That was what I was addressing in my initial response.

The attitude of "actually I wanted to fight him but he just threw me off" was what I addressed in response #2.

When did he imply or say "You sure you wanna do this?". If he was down, I was down. When I asked him if he wanted to take care of it, he said no. My only objective at the time was this in my head.

He was doing something called "off-balancing." You use it to put your opponent in a state of confusion prior to a fight.

Serious fighters are not doing this approach a guy, chest puffed out, "U got a problem, mate?" escalation dance. If they want to fight you they just walk right up to you and clock you. Or if you walk up to them doing the "Oi, mate!" thing, they just immediately clock you (or stab you, if they're the stabby types). No escalation, no back-and-forth, just hit or stab.

Whenever you see a guy doing the "puff chest, get in face, talk about problems" dance, you know this is a guy trying to work up to a fight, who you can either a.) defuse or b.) cold cock while he's still working himself up. He's totally at your mercy.

Here is the social context you are not understanding:

YOU: [approach, bristling for a fight, but unready for one, needing to escalate first] "Hey man, if you got a problem, let's go right here."​

What that is doing is giving 100% of the power to him. He can respond in a variety of ways:

• Challenge you back: "Yeah, I got a problem with you. What're you gonna do about it?"
• Defuse the situation: "What are you talking about, man? Say, that's a nice shirt, where'd you get it?"
• Call your bluff: "No, I don't have a problem. Do you have a problem?"

Any of those give more social power to him. Challenging you back is telling you to put up or shut up. Either you put on a show or you're a wuss. Defusing it makes him look like the dominant party deciding how things will go (you went all the way over there to fight and he got you to just talk about something else then leave). Calling your bluff makes you look like you're full of hot air: "I don't want to fight but if you want to we can bro."

I've done the bluff-call several times with guys in tense situations. I've never encountered a guy who knew how to react.

A guy will be saying, "You wanna go man?" and you just go "I mean, not really, but if you want to we can. Should we? If we need to I'm down."

Freaks most guys out. The fact that you don't really care and are nonchalant about fighting them forces them to stop and reconsider if they really think they can win a fight with you. If they can, then why are you so chill about it? Normally you are only going to be chill if you are a very experienced fighter and you know you can fuck them up.

My goal in life is not to fuck up a bunch of dudes, but to be able to handle myself or learn via experience when I am out there especially when I'm out with a girl of a certain caliber.

In that case, see my initial response.

I'm just not sure where the whole "I was totally ready to scrap" thing comes in.

I'm not sure where you got this "angry loner phase" for my situation. I will definitely say I prefer to be alone over having a bunch of dudes around me. Matter of fact, being a 'loner' is the starting point of many PUAs when they start their journey no? I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here, but I am out here alone trying to get better socially, so if you're implying that it's a negative trait to do so, I'm a bit surprised you'd imply that when you infact started as a 'loner' who worked on social skills. Isn't conflict resolution part of social skills especially when youre out with a girl and there's strangers starting shit with you? So it would be better to learn those social skills when I'm out alone.

What I read there is that a.) you are indeed a loner, and b.) yes, you get angry at minor slights from people and blow up and try to fight them, but c.) what's so wrong with that?

See the lovers vs. fighters article I linked in my earlier post.

You are pursuing the fighter path right now. It's better than nothing I suppose (better than the "average dude" path), but if your actual goal is the same as your professed goal (i.e., superior social abilities), fighter is not the optimal route to that.

I will also say I stick out like a sore thumb because I'm in countries where I'm the minority. (Think being black in East Europe or Asia) (White in Africa) (Asian in all white neighborhood or europe)

I have spent much of my life as "white dude in all-black area", "white dude in all-Latino area", "white dude in all-Asian area." I am aware of the sore-thumb-sticking issue.

The thing you do NOT want to do as the sore thumb is go around challenging hammers all the time. Instead you want to look like a non-sore thumb. See this article:

How to Be Street Smart & Handle Life-Threatening Situations

Street smarts are something that are invaluable to know, but that you won't know if you haven't grown up in areas that expose you to dangerous or dicey situations. You won't learn street smarts in the halls of a private high school or the sidewalks of an affluent middle class suburb. Instead...

www.girlschase.com

Just in general: when you are out of your element, surrounded by people who are like each other but not like you, where you are an obvious outsider, it is good to seem strong, but dangerous to be pugilistic.

You wouldn't climb into a gorilla pen and pick a fight with one of the gorillas there. Don't go picking fights with one of a group of people who aren't like you when everyone around is like them and not you. You seem to be somewhat aware of people's tribalistic nature, but I do not think you realize how strongly tribal humans really are.

I'm reminded of a story a Chinese buddy told me of a pair of big, tall, well-muscled African guys who'd been drinking in a Chinese bar. These two guys got into a fight with two smaller, thinner Chinese guys and started beating those two Chinese guys up. As my friend watched, a horde of about eight or so random Chinese that had been watching joined in and descended on the two African guys. My friend (laughing as he was telling me this story) said "Those two African guys were way bigger than any of the Chinese guys, but Chinese guys ganged up on them and whooped their ass!" The African guys ended up beaten to unconsciousness and left on the street.

Just think of groups of people as akin to troops of gorillas and you will have a better mental picture of what picking a fight with one of the individuals from a group may open you up to (not necessarily... not everyone is tribal, and sometimes maybe you'll pick a fight with another loner, or some guy away from his tribe. But you won't know for sure until you do).

You're replying to me as if I'm the one going around seeking out conflicts. However, it wasn't the case in this scenario.

He:

• Cast a few looks
  
  
• Laughed / said stuff, maybe about you or who knows what even. Maybe he was talking about his favorite funny TV show, while sometimes staring at you because he never sees people who look like you

You:

• Approached his position
  
  
• Got in his face
  
  
• Told him you wanted to "go right here"
  
  
• Said in this forum thread you were ready to throw down and the only reason you didn't was because the guy confused you
  
  
• Now are saying you "weren't going around seeking out conflicts in this case"

???

Kinda feels like I'm watching this one:

When I was in my angry loner phase, after the judge upheld my citation for that fight and said I was as much to blame for it as the other guy, I got all pissed off about it. I even wrote a couple of songs about how the whole system was against me, the justice system was rigged, police were out to get me, etc.

Now I look back and I'm like, "That whole thing was my fault. Geez, that was dumb. The judge was right."

You are seeing things a certain way, that does not gel with reality, due to the glasses you have on right now.

The sooner you can take those "ready to fight the world" glasses off and start looking at things another way, the better it will be for your social development.

Chase

 

[DaVinciMatrixStyle]

Not my intention to seem hostile. Didn't seem like I was quite getting through with message #1 though.

Roger that.

My initial response was about "here's how you retain maximum social power and effortlessly put challengers in their places."

Your response to that was about how you "wanted to fight this guy" and he just threw you off track.

You fighting the guy is not you retaining maximum social power. It is you putting yourself in a gambling situation where you exert a bunch of energy, possibly beat the guy up, possibly get beat up, plus add a bunch of potential wild card outcomes into the mix:

Noted.

That was what I was addressing in my initial response.

The attitude of "actually I wanted to fight him but he just threw me off" was what I addressed in response #2.

I worded that wrong. I was WILLING to fight him IF he pointed that he did in fact have a problem since he was snickering and staring after the girl told him what she told him. In the end, at the back of my mind, I knew the girl instigated this whole scenario. But for me to confront the girl would seem even worse therefore, I challenged the dude.

He was doing something called "off-balancing." You use it to put your opponent in a state of confusion prior to a fight.

Serious fighters are not doing this approach a guy, chest puffed out, "U got a problem, mate?" escalation dance. If they want to fight you they just walk right up to you and clock you. Or if you walk up to them doing the "Oi, mate!" thing, they just immediately clock you (or stab you, if they're the stabby types). No escalation, no back-and-forth, just hit or stab.

I'll keep this in mind that if I wanna escalate, to be prepared to stop this escalation dance bullshit and have a go at it.

Here is the social context you are not understanding:

YOU: [approach, bristling for a fight, but unready for one, needing to escalate first] "Hey man, if you got a problem, let's go right here."
What that is doing is giving 100% of the power to him. He can respond in a variety of ways:

• Challenge you back: "Yeah, I got a problem with you. What're you gonna do about it?"
• Defuse the situation: "What are you talking about, man? Say, that's a nice shirt, where'd you get it?"
• Call your bluff: "No, I don't have a problem. Do you have a problem?"

Any of those give more social power to him. Challenging you back is telling you to put up or shut up. Either you put on a show or you're a wuss. Defusing it makes him look like the dominant party deciding how things will go (you went all the way over there to fight and he got you to just talk about something else then leave). Calling your bluff makes you look like you're full of hot air: "I don't want to fight but if you want to we can bro."

I've done the bluff-call several times with guys in tense situations. I've never encountered a guy who knew how to react.

A guy will be saying, "You wanna go man?" and you just go "I mean, not really, but if you want to we can. Should we? If we need to I'm down."

Freaks most guys out. The fact that you don't really care and are nonchalant about fighting them forces them to stop and reconsider if they really think they can win a fight with you. If they can, then why are you so chill about it? Normally you are only going to be chill if you are a very experienced fighter and you know you can fuck them up.

Good point about giving him social power. This half-assing escalation is definitely the source of the problem. There were several factors in my mind.

As I said the girl instigated this whole situation; however, to confront the girl would be a bitchy move and the guy would step in so I confronted him instead. I knew at the back of my mind, if I did throw down with this guy, there was almost no point. I was thinking this as I was escalating this; therefore, I asked if HE had a problem specifically with ME, and if he did let us solve it. However, it was actually giving my power away regardless.

I'm just not sure where the whole "I was totally ready to scrap" thing comes in.

The whole ready to scrap thing comes in because in any argument between two men, the threat of violence is always there. Therefore, physical scrap would be the final say if it got there.

What I read there is that a.) you are indeed a loner, and b.) yes, you get angry at minor slights from people and blow up and try to fight them, but c.) what's so wrong with that?

See the lovers vs. fighters article I linked in my earlier post.

You are pursuing the fighter path right now. It's better than nothing I suppose (better than the "average dude" path), but if your actual goal is the same as your professed goal (i.e., superior social abilities), fighter is not the optimal route to that.

A & C. I practice alone. Yes. There's a bunch of articles that recommend going out SOLO if you want to practice your social skills or seduction skills. I actually think that way about conflicts as well. Matter of fact if I practice in social circles trying to 'become better at seduction or conflicts', I would have a reputation. No?

B). The reason for the fighter path is somewhat correct but it's also needed in my case. I love women and pursuing women as a lover, however, as I said I live in areas where I stick out like a sore thumb (as you seem to have experience in that yourself). However, there are times when I'm out with a woman (because I stick out and can't hide) certain people will start small shits when youre out with one of 'their woman'.

Therefore, I'm not experienced in conflicts enough. BUT if you wanna become king, it's better to be the Jester and overreact than not react. As you mentioned.

Sprezzatura, Effort, and Investing

Question from a reader named Sam yesterday: Hi Chase, Just wanted to say thanks for all the great advice and content you post here. Some of this stuff is pure gold because I have had a few "ah ha" moments, especially about the interchangeability of value and good feelings, and this I think will...

www.girlschase.com

In fact, if I never 'over-reacted', I wouldn't be learning via this post. So is it really a 'bad thing' to over-react? I guess that's relative. But I would rather over-react and keep adjusting than what's suggested here which is to 'act zen' at very conflict. If small digs build up, it will start to built up resentment. Therefore, it's better for me to handle it by overreacting than not reacting.

If that path is to look like a social retard to get there, it is what it is. But in order for me to be a lover in a country where I can't really hide or 'blend in with the crowd' I do have to pursue fighter strategies as well>

The thing you do NOT want to do as the sore thumb is go around challenging hammers all the time. Instead you want to look like a non-sore thumb. See this article:

I agree with this statement. My problem with sticking out the problem was that to challenge every hammer until I got enough referential experience and feel confident that now I can zen it out and pick my battles. It's def a work in progress.

You wouldn't climb into a gorilla pen and pick a fight with one of the gorillas there. Don't go picking fights with one of a group of people who aren't like you when everyone around is like them and not you. You seem to be somewhat aware of people's tribalistic nature, but I do not think you realize how strongly tribal humans really are.

I'm aware of what kind if situation I'm putting myself in. But I deliberately put myself in these situations to find a solution as I grew up in areas where I can't just blend in. I tried to ignore a lot of the 'tooling' at times; however, it only gets worse and repetetive. I had to find a solution as I saw this pattern that kept happening. It got to a point where I decided that I was aware that I may get jumped by 5 to 6 guys but it's either that or keep getting tooled.

Respect Maintenance: Conflict Escalation & De-escalation

When you find yourself in a conflict, you can back down… or you can escalate. How far should you take it? How do you know what the right thing to do is? A few simple rules can guide you. I recently binge-read a series of colorful Quora answers from ex-convict Matthew Holmes. Holmes was someone...

www.girlschase.com

For example, in this article you talk about Matthew Holmes about how a black guy confront him (the only white guy) with 12 of his buddies around him. (as you say tribal). I've been in this situation many times as I was growing up. I'm not saying to the level like prison setting, but similar environment where I would be chatting to a girl, and because a guy is with 5 to 6 of his friends and I'm the 'outsider' he feels comfortable trying to tool me in front of his buddies. I had enough social awareness that if I fought back at that time, his friends would jump me regardless of if he was right or wrong. However, I would find the guy who tooled me when he was alone and I would fight him then and there.

Therefore, I deliberately have put myself in situations like these in hopes of learning how to navigate socially while working with people's tribalistic nature. The only way to find out is just directly attack it head on and learn about subtleties later. (At least that was my mentality)

Perhaps you can talk a bit about your experiences where you were the only white guy in an all X (other race) neighborhood, and how you would navigate around social circles and seduction in situations such as that.

Just in general: when you are out of your element, surrounded by people who are like each other but not like you, where you are an obvious outsider, it is good to seem strong, but dangerous to be pugilistic.

I will definitely work on that. If I was in my own country, I probably wouldn't be dealing with this as much. However, as I stick out like a sore thumb, I believe this is one of the most difficult situations to practice seduction. But I need to be smarter about how to go about things.

He:

• Cast a few looks
  
  
• Laughed / said stuff, maybe about you or who knows what even. Maybe he was talking about his favorite funny TV show, while sometimes staring at you because he never sees people who look like you

You:

• Approached his position
  
  
• Got in his face
  
  
• Told him you wanted to "go right here"
  
  
• Said in this forum thread you were ready to throw down and the only reason you didn't was because the guy confused you
  
  
• Now are saying you "weren't going around seeking out conflicts in this case"

???

Kinda feels like I'm watching this one:

This made me chuckle a bit cause I was looking at it from my point of view. If this guy kept staring while snickering, obviously he wanted the smoke. Right? Right? But I escalated this first. you right.

The sooner you can take those "ready to fight the world" glasses off and start looking at things another way, the better it will be for your social development.

I think this 'ready to fight the world' mentality is because of the fact that I always stick out and don't blend in. Therefore, I was 'ready to fight the world'. It's a bit of a double sword I guess.

Extreme situations sometimes require extreme solutions, or at least I thought.

Either way, I appreciate your inputs as always Chase.

Cheers.

 

[Skills]

I want to make the point of being polirizing, not a pushover, having self respect is not the same as having a physical unnecesary comfrontation or silly arguments or fights, this does not make you less manly or alpha.

Many times there are drunk annoying dudes at the clubs that i could easily beat up, but beating up a drunk weak dude in a club is cowardly, lower my social standing, will get me banned from club etc... it is not worth it...

When you do seduction there are going to be more than normal disrespect, amog etc scenarios, just like the one you encounter, specially doing cold approach... mire than the average dude, i did a post on this, i will link and edit in a few...

I would also suggest you lift and take some type of martial arts... most fighters dont fight, they know how risky it is, and in countries like usa huge liability....

Socializing - Why do seducers get picked on with amog, fights, disrespect....

So you are wondering why do people are picking on me with fights, sometimes rude comments, some times bad looks, some type people nitpicking on you.... Well is very simple (some times is strangers or even people in your circles women and men alike).... It is an inner frustration with the lack...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Searcher]

I want to make the point of being polirizing, not a pushover, having self respect is not the same as having a physical unnecesary comfrontation or silly arguments or fights, this does not make you less manly or alpha.

I like this.

I see these days that many guys try to overcompensate the "Alpha" thing.
I think especially with the whole redpill thing going on its like guys who were pushovers now want to prove to everyone that they are not.
They even take the "have your own opinion" in a wrong way and basically start arguments over subjective things and become rude/insulting to those who don't share their opinion.
A couple of days back I had a guy who started arguing whether a certain movie was good or not. It's really subjective and it gets annoying with guys like that.
Funnily enough I see that it's mostly guys who are starting to learn pickup/redill pickup do most of these things.

 

[Chase]

@DaVinciMatrixStyle,

As I said the girl instigated this whole situation; however, to confront the girl would be a bitchy move and the guy would step in so I confronted him instead. I knew at the back of my mind, if I did throw down with this guy, there was almost no point. I was thinking this as I was escalating this; therefore, I asked if HE had a problem specifically with ME, and if he did let us solve it. However, it was actually giving my power away regardless.

What you do in those situations (if a confrontation is really necessary) is either speak directly to the boss, if the boss will admit it, or point out the situation to the underling, if you know the boss will try to hide behind him.

1. Example of the former: Guy A is goading Guy B to insult you. As you're passing them both, you say to Guy A, "Too scared to say it yourself, eh?"
   
   
2. Example of the latter: Girl is goading Guy to insult you. As you're passing them both, you say to the Guy, "Looks like she's got you in a vise there."

In the former case, you are weakening both guys in different ways: you frame Guy A as weak for not directly confronting you and needing an underling to do it, while you make Guy B question why he is serving as an underling to a weaker man than he is.

In the latter case, you insult the girl by showing you know she is pulling the strings, yet refusing to either fight with the guy or challenge her directly (which will just lead to the guy riding to her defense, thus you fighting the guy), and instead aiming at her control over the guy. To the guy, you are making him question why he is letting a woman push him around.

Really what you do in both cases is appeal to the underling to switch sides, or at least consider what he's getting serving a weak or manipulative master. Meanwhile the master can't really do anything to you, because he was too afraid to confront you directly, and now you've just weakened his hold on the underling.

This is the kind of stuff you really want to be learning with social skills, loner or not; most leaders start as loners, after all.

A & C. I practice alone. Yes. There's a bunch of articles that recommend going out SOLO if you want to practice your social skills or seduction skills. I actually think that way about conflicts as well. Matter of fact if I practice in social circles trying to 'become better at seduction or conflicts', I would have a reputation. No?

I was not criticizing "being a loner." I was pointing out being an angry loner.

"Chill loner" is extremely cool. "Angry guy with a group of loyal friends" is intimidating. "Angry guy who's all by himself" had better have superhero-level abilities, because otherwise the world is going to put him down quick.

A lot of modern media is all about this angry guy loner with his superhero skills and boy, people sure are sorry when they mess with him! Steel claws come out, laser beams shoot from his eyes, and they soon discover he's invincible.

In real life being the angry loner is a very risky prospect with low/no rewards. It doesn't get you girls (scares most of them away, in fact), but it sure does attract men who want to test themselves against a guy who looks tough but has no one to back him up. The trouble with real life is men are fairly even in their ability to do damage to one another. You can mess a guy up, but he can mess you up too; nobody has superhero powers.

B). The reason for the fighter path is somewhat correct but it's also needed in my case. I love women and pursuing women as a lover, however, as I said I live in areas where I stick out like a sore thumb (as you seem to have experience in that yourself). However, there are times when I'm out with a woman (because I stick out and can't hide) certain people will start small shits when youre out with one of 'their woman'.

There are two ways to handle this:

• Be the tough guy who tries to scare them off or fight them
  
  
• Be the cool guy they are happy is with one of their women

Being the cool guy doesn't always work 100%, especially if the other guy is particularly belligerent. But it will typically defuse even those types if you're cool enough. It may not flip them to fans, but they at least will just stick to grumbling over in the corner, because all their friends like you and they won't have backup if they try to start something with you.

The tough guy is a riskier proposition. You can really trigger the immune response in groups of people doing it, even if you didn't start it. If Group Member A starts some shit with you, and you start posturing, then Group Members B, C, D, and E see you and Group Member A posturing against each other, both looking angry, they are not going to care who started it, they will side with Group Member A. And now you (and your girl) are in trouble.

Therefore, I'm not experienced in conflicts enough. BUT if you wanna become king, it's better to be the Jester and overreact than not react. As you mentioned.

Sprezzatura, Effort, and Investing

Question from a reader named Sam yesterday: Hi Chase, Just wanted to say thanks for all the great advice and content you post here. Some of this stuff is pure gold because I have had a few "ah ha" moments, especially about the interchangeability of value and good feelings, and this I think will...

www.girlschase.com

In fact, if I never 'over-reacted', I wouldn't be learning via this post. So is it really a 'bad thing' to over-react? I guess that's relative. But I would rather over-react and keep adjusting than what's suggested here which is to 'act zen' at very conflict. If small digs build up, it will start to built up resentment. Therefore, it's better for me to handle it by overreacting than not reacting.

If that path is to look like a social retard to get there, it is what it is. But in order for me to be a lover in a country where I can't really hide or 'blend in with the crowd' I do have to pursue fighter strategies as well>

Except this is not the right way to learn real fighter toughness / intimidation.

I got into a bunch of fights and confrontations with men and spent years as the angry dude and I still felt a lot of fear in confrontation and felt like they were out of my control. It didn't seem to matter how much experience I got; I always felt like I was one fight away from getting beaten to death or going to prison.

Then I took a bunch of martial arts training, and started practicing my strikes at home to get them down really, really well. They also trained the mindsets... I took Krav Maga, and that trains you on real life fight situations (how to react when someone attacks you; you do a bunch of drills that replicate how real life fights begin; how long to stay in, what to do, how to make your exit, etc.). That was when I reached the point where I started to really feel confident in fight situations.

The result too was that it made it a lot easier for me to be more relaxed -- and thus more dominant in a cool, calibrated way -- because I knew I could go from chill --> whoop-ass at the drop of a hat if need be. Whereas before I had to sort of work myself up to that because I was an untrained fighter who didn't really know what he was doing and knew he might be lining up to get his butt kicked.

So, like @Skills also recommends -- that is what you need to be doing if you want that kind of confidence.

It's not "confront a bunch of guys until you feel confident." That won't do it, anymore than "go open 10,000 girls" will make you confident in your seducer skills. Unless you are going to confront and fight hundreds of guys, you are not going to get that confidence that way -- you need to get martial arts training that is focused on real life confrontations.

The two best I can recommend for that: Krav Maga and Wing Chun. Both those are focused on real life fight situations with multiple attackers. BJJ is recommended for ground fighting (but you really don't want to be in a ground fight in real life... BJJ is good for the ring; not for real life when you're fighting a guy on the ground while his four bodies stand around raining punches and kicks down on you).

I'm aware of what kind if situation I'm putting myself in. But I deliberately put myself in these situations to find a solution as I grew up in areas where I can't just blend in. I tried to ignore a lot of the 'tooling' at times; however, it only gets worse and repetetive. I had to find a solution as I saw this pattern that kept happening. It got to a point where I decided that I was aware that I may get jumped by 5 to 6 guys but it's either that or keep getting tooled.

What you should be doing here is:

1. Developing social skills to smoothly defuse situations
2. Taking real life self-defense classes to come out on top if a situation does explode

Perhaps you can talk a bit about your experiences where you were the only white guy in an all X (other race) neighborhood, and how you would navigate around social circles and seduction in situations such as that.

I'll have to think about how to properly discuss code-switching and out-group integration.

I tried jotting off some notes here just now and there are just too many ways what I was writing can get reinterpreted.

Let me think on how to frame the subject properly.

This made me chuckle a bit cause I was looking at it from my point of view. If this guy kept staring while snickering, obviously he wanted the smoke. Right? Right? But I escalated this first. you right.

I think this 'ready to fight the world' mentality is because of the fact that I always stick out and don't blend in. Therefore, I was 'ready to fight the world'. It's a bit of a double sword I guess.

Extreme situations sometimes require extreme solutions, or at least I thought.

Good self-awareness here.

That "fight the world" energy shows great courage, and ambition, and personal self-confidence. Obviously no one can fight the world and win. But the guy who knows that and decides he's still going to try anyway has got some pluck.

Where you really take off is in channeling all those good qualities into directions that will actually do you some good: what if instead of "fight the world" you could charm the world... make everyone you encountered take a shine to you, or at least not want to ridicule you... get people to look at you and say, "Wow, that guy's impressive" and "Whoa that dude seems cool"?

Then instead of needing to fend off enemies, you begin to build allies.

This is the natural progression of the hero -- from lone wanderer, slaying dragons and vanquishing foes, to magnanimous king, beloved by all and powerful beyond what he can accomplish as a lone man, with many a hero (or at least a good company of allies) in dutiful service to him.

Chase

 

[DaVinciMatrixStyle]

@Chase

I truly appreciate your time to respond and help me out re-frame how I was viewing the world while giving me technical how-to. It truly is amazing how you can give a different perspective for me to think about instead of the typical 'just don't react' advice.

Otherwise, I'll be signing up for some classes and improving my mindset to 'charming the world' as you mentioned. I just realized how black and white I was thinking about the world. Thanks for your guidance.

Cheers