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Good idea!
Start that post by defining what a red is so that we can all reach a consensus on what a red actually is.
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Attraction - Can it be Generated? - An Introduction to Compliance-Based Game
- Thread starter Teevster
- Start date
Start that post by defining what a red is so that we can all reach a consensus on what a red actually is.
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I agreed with K's point on the previous page, that you can fuck a girl that was not attracted to you at all when you first met. But through repeated exposure
Mere-exposure effect - Wikipedia
You can end up banging/dating her. I have read many examples of this (including on this very thread). The thing is, most of the guys that commented on this thread are SNL cold approachers, and want to flip her not several months from now, not go on several dates with her, but close her tonight
Don't worry @Razorjack,
I'll ask you questions that will demand that you provide deeper insights, analyse what you say and make assumptions of why it could work that way.
This process will not only help ppl to get your point but will probably also raise your awareness about what you were doing and why as your post suggests, I would find that exciting!
Also remember, that there are other experencied seducer that are likely to chime in and help us to achive this goal.
Klimax
Hey @Teevster,
The reason of why reducing resistance would create compliance is obvious.
The reason why "escalating" (or building tension) creates compliance is because it sets expectations and if those are not meet the girl will face strong cognitive dissonance. It works exactly as "compliance stacking" or as the way "yes-ladders" do. It's like compliance momentum.
That's why if you offer a random girl that was "atracted" to you to fuck and you make the same offer after running this process, the outcome differs.
Thats how I see it but I am sure you have interesting thoughts about this.
Klimax
I strongly disagree here, IME escalating and reducing resistance CREATES compliance. I could argue that all of the tech you listed in the OP falls under one or the other -although I would replace the word escalating by creating tension-.
The reason of why reducing resistance would create compliance is obvious.
The reason why "escalating" (or building tension) creates compliance is because it sets expectations and if those are not meet the girl will face strong cognitive dissonance. It works exactly as "compliance stacking" or as the way "yes-ladders" do. It's like compliance momentum.
That's why if you offer a random girl that was "atracted" to you to fuck and you make the same offer after running this process, the outcome differs.
Thats how I see it but I am sure you have interesting thoughts about this.
Yes and omg I was completly lost there... Fortunately you weren't as clueless as I was since you did pull a (nice) set lol
Klimax
New threads are always nice, but one could just read the mysterymethod or Ross Jefferies or something
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chill pinpin. I'm actually interested in what these guys come up with
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Yes and? It a pure compliance based pull, since as Chase said she did not have that initial spark
f attraction.
I may find you cool, does not mean I am attracted to you.
And also at no point did I mention that the case @Chase was dealing with was a clear red.
The PUA's response would be:
.. and create enough of an interest where it is lacking...
This is, after all the good old definition of game more or less.
Yes that's the definition of a neutral girls.
With all due respect to @Grand Pooba /Varoon, this is a post written by him in his earlier days. He also learned this system of trafic lights from me and Pabl (and we in turn got it from 60 years of Challenge, who BTW never claimed it was impossible to turn reds). He managed to misunderstand what Pablo told him back then, namely that "you should forget about reds" - which he told Varoon because Varoon was pretty fresh doing clubgaming and as mentioned numerous times in this thread, it is not recommended for intermediate guys to go for reds. Varoon was clearly an intermediate guy in 2018.
He also focuses a lot on relationship and is not the most profilic cold approacher. Especially not in not game contexts.
He is more into daygame. I honestly do not know if one can turn reds into greens in day game. I will admit to that. In which case his trafic light post is very much valid.
Best,
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Hey man! I hope you are doing alright. Sorry for not texting you back when you texted me. I was still busy with exams (and now that I am free, I am confined just like you).
Escalating creates compliance, I agree. I cannot reckon where I have stated otherwise.
I reread what I wrote and I can understanding the misconception. What I said was that escalating the vibe was not synonymous with generating desire. I did not say it could not generate it.
Escalating the vibe is defined as: "making it happen".
Compliance/desire: "make her want it to happen".
Not synonymous.
That was my point.
Hope this clarifies.
Best,
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ah ok
Well...we are not women
There was a post on sedfast by WarpedMindless titled, "Thoughts and Observation from 12 years of pickup".
Been 12 years since my first cold approach. My thoughts and observations... - NextASF
This is going to be a stream of consciousness post; I hope it makes sense to all of you. About Me Twelve years ago to the day I made my first cold approach
nextasf.com
In that post, he talked about the 5 universal fundamental pillars.
Sexualization, Emotional Elicitation, Investment, Dominance, and.....Coolness.
If a girl thinks you're cool (social proof (sees other girls responding well to you. sees you leading a group), stylish, cool vibe) then she will be interested in what you have to say. Giving you an opportunity to turn her on and make things happen.
I think the secret to gaming reds is in what you do before you approach them Vs directly trying to turn their disinterest in you into interest. Which is what Razorjack talked about on the first page I believe.
Pablo told Varoon and K to forget about "yellows" not "reds". He said you can't get "reds".
Podcast with the Girls Chase Seduction A-Team: Lessons from Stockholm
Welcome back to another episode of Dating Mechanics! For this podcast, I have something different and special for you. A few of us Girls Chase authors met up in Stockholm, Sweden this past summer for a few days and nights. We met up with each other (some for the first time), met plenty of women...
www.girlschase.com
but maybe his thoughts have changed since then?
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Wow, a tag! I guess I have to address each of these one at a time...
1. On the system of traffic lights, yes I did learn it from Pablo and Teevs back in 2018, and I'd say I was very much intermediate then. Much better now but still not truly "advanced" - almost there, should be there sometime this year actually.
2. On whether or not you should forget about Reds. Well, this really depends. In the context of this thread AND also Teevs game style which is night game and club game, I'd actually say this is a suitable environment for turning Reds into pulls. It can and HAS been done. Many have done this, and some even look forward to it. The question is though - is it worth it? From the perspective of effort in for results out, which is what I was getting at in my article, Greens are effectively "your best customers" if we put this into a business context, so you'll put in fewer resources for more rewards back, faster. Yellows are interested or curious, but not sold - you'll have to lead them and make them want it. Whereas, "Reds" are just not interested from the get go, so you'll have to do something special to get their attention or really make a compelling case. In the context of girls and game Reds will arguably be harder than a Green (for sure) or Yellow (maybe) but I'd say a Red can also flip equally quickly with the guy that knows what to do. You'll see that a lot in night game where a girl will blow off a guy, then that guy will build pre-selection with an equally hot girl nearby and make his value apparent, and suddenly the first girl will flip and give a shot to the guy (provided he left the blow off on a smooth note of course). Even after giving this shot, she could still go back to "Red" with some mistake. So I'd say Reds are flippable, but it's going to be more effort than, say, a Green that's just into you right from the top. That being said, it also depends on your level. To a novice, a Red will feel impossible and a Green is attainable; to a pro, a Green might just be really boring and you want something more, but the Red is a fun challenge and you know it's possible. Some guys (like Teevs) like challenges like this and it makes for more satisfying pursuits. If you're that type, by all means persist! I know Chase has very much been a fan of compliance based pulls, and I have read his stories in articles about pulling the unpullable girls through compliance.
So the question isn't whether Reds can be pulled or not - they can, it's possible in some contexts - but it IS a question of effort too. There will too be times where the Red is flipped with little effort and the pull is smooth as well through the compliance. I don't think this is very common, most guys don't have the skill to do this. For the vast majority of the guys, it's the Greens that will be your best value for effort and the highest chance of success.
3. On being a prolific cold approacher, I disagree that I am not. I approach 5-15 girls a day 5-6 days a week in normal times, plus night game outings, plus sometimes online game. So plenty of approaching going on; just not too much at night.
4. On turing Reds into Greens in day game, I agree that this is nearly impossible. To flip a red you REALLY need to display a value proposition that will change her mind. I don't think it can be done with purely compliance alone, but that will certainly start the right path if she follows it. Usually something powerful like Pre-Selection will do the trick, which can be pulled off in an environment like a club, but would just be weird in day game.
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One of the problems is that we are not asking the correct question. Can you "generate attraction"? WHO CARES! In gunwitch's SMMA course he purposely DOESNT use these words (attraction, seduction, comfort, etc) because there is too much mental baggage surrounding them. The proper question is, "Can we have sex with women who do not send IOis, appear disinterested at first approach and/or even down right hostile?" I do not understand how anyone in this community can answer anything but YES to this question. Otherwise, what are you still doing here? Looksmax over at the body building and style forms. You shouldn't be here.
I love the debate but I hate arguing about semantics. Attraction, desire, compliance, etc, etc. In many ways this is completely irrelevant to the discussion. I think the obsession with "attraction" comes from guys who want to use that as a way to boost their egos "she finds me attractive!" and give themselves permission to game or continue the interaction. If we look at this from the perspective of "I want THAT woman right over there NOW, how do I get her?" you have a ton more options. Why are we focusing on making her find us attractive? Do you need to find a comedian physically attractive in order to laugh? Do you have to find a seducer attractive in order to fall into a sexual state in their presence? Yes yes yes, if you're 400lbs and smell like bile it will be hard to get someone to go into a sexual state because their disgust response is being triggered, so lets assume your presence provides at least a NEUTRAL state, which tbh is probably closer to reality.
If you are traditionally unattractive you are going to have to game different. You can not be direct. You can not verbally express your interest. You can not caveman. Instead you need to hook the girl into a stimulating conversation. The conversation has to be so stimulating that SHE WANTS MORE OF THE CONVERSATION and the fact you are the one giving it is completely irrelevant past the fact if she wants more she has to get it from you. You use her DESIRE to continue being emotionally and mentally stimulated (everyone seeks this) to get her to comply with what you want her to do. In essence you are trading stimulation for compliance. You use this compliance and desire for more stimulation to move her to an isolated location. You do not have to be physically attractive to get a woman to desire more conversation with you while also trusting you enough to feel safe. Neither of those things require "attraction" in the traditional sense. However, it is VERY difficult to be extremely emotionally and mentally stimulating. It took teams of scientists and psychologists years to determine how to make video games as addictive and stimulating as possible. It takes comedians years, if not decades, to be able to consistently provoke the reaction they want (involuntary laugher). It is the same for a seducer, hence why many do not exist. Just screen for interest BRUH! Which, tbh, is a pretty valid strategy.
Anyway, the way this works is you hook with stimulating conversation, you create compliance by moving her around the venue and having her do things for you. You create trust with social frame gambits. (Stand here, hold this, do that, tell me more about this, why do you think that, etc) Next you need to move to another venue. Because you are ugly and she is not thinking about having sex with you you move her to another club, or at the end of the night, food spot. Next you get her to come back to your place (or invite you to hers) using plausible deniability. Once alone you use sexual talk, sexual eye contact, and sexual touching to escalate her desire for sex. AND YOU HAPPEN TO BE THE ONLY GUY THERE THAT CAN PROVIDE IT AT THE EXACT MOMENT SHE IS DESIRING IT. Next thing you know, you are fucking the hot chick that earlier would have completely blown you off if you went in direct. The chick that would have passed a polygraph test (if such a thing even worked lmao) saying NO SHE WOULD NOT FUCK YOU just 3 hours earlier.
So in a sense this whole debate is silly. Who cares if she finds you attractive. RSD Tyler has said about 50% of his lays happen EXACTLY LIKE THAT. and about 25% of girls even outright verbalize they are not or were not physically attracted to him at all.
Here is another reason I think the "you have to be physically attractive and not fuck it up" is inaccurate. Yareally himself. a self proclaimed average to below average man, said he would have to game differently to get a woman's attention. He would go up to women and say something SO OFFENSIVE that she HAD to pay attention to him and respond. He would use that attention and response to continue to the next step of the process. So in many ways he would go in and purposely fuck it up so the woman would react to him and he could begin the process.
In a way its similar to what Facebook does with promoting negative posts, it gets people ENGAGED. Most men get engagement and attention simply from their good looks but it is not the ONLY way. With Facebook its like yes, POSITIVE posts get attention and engagement. but they get NO WHERE NEAR as much engagement as a negative post. So in essence, triggering a negative response can get more initial engagement to work with, but the only caveat is you need to be much more skilled in order to turn it around. You need this engagement in order to get her to want to listen to what you have to say. You use her attention as a way to begin working her mind with stimulating conversation topics. This is what guys who say, "how do I use sex talk with a hot girl who isnt even interested in me. She just wont even listen to what I have to say" do not understand. First you need to get her engaged in conversation then it allows you to stimulate her in different ways.
Going back to yareally, he would go up to girls and say "I WANT TO DO YOU IN THE BUM AND GIVE YOU AIDS" as a fucking opener. or even "Damn, you are sexy. I'm totally going to think about you while I jerk off later" Go up to a woman and say either of those openers and tell me you don't get her attention. Here is a perfect fucking example of that. Cajun on that stupid PUA show years ago. Watch the set where he goes in (they beep it) and says "Wow, you guys look like a bunch of retards" THE CHICK STARTS SCREAMING AT HIM TO GO AWAY! Starts at 17:59,
You "looks" guys would have a girl scream at you and go WOAH that's a no girl she hates my looks and thinks i'm ugly. In reality its because his behavior provoked that response. If you are a mPUA you can use those predictable responses in a positive way.
Side note: look how he responds to her screaming at him. He doesn't get reactive, his voice stays low and even, and he goes "listen (command), there is a reason. You ALWAYS want to say "there is a reason", I even go "there is a reason, its because...." it makes people compliant, they want to hear the reason. Plus people think oh there is a reason its not just because hes a social retard maybe I missed something here.
You can take a attractive man and show him all the ways "not to fuck it up" and that doesn't mean he will get laid. Getting laid isn't so much about not making errors or triggering a disgust and/or annoyance response. It includes that but it also includes putting her into the correct state of mind to desire sex.
I think people are too ego-centric when it comes to game. They think the woman wants "them" when in reality it is making the woman want something while positioning yourself to be the supplier. The women become infatuated with you simply because they recognize you are the source that is causing this reaction/feeling.
I love the debate but I hate arguing about semantics. Attraction, desire, compliance, etc, etc. In many ways this is completely irrelevant to the discussion. I think the obsession with "attraction" comes from guys who want to use that as a way to boost their egos "she finds me attractive!" and give themselves permission to game or continue the interaction. If we look at this from the perspective of "I want THAT woman right over there NOW, how do I get her?" you have a ton more options. Why are we focusing on making her find us attractive? Do you need to find a comedian physically attractive in order to laugh? Do you have to find a seducer attractive in order to fall into a sexual state in their presence? Yes yes yes, if you're 400lbs and smell like bile it will be hard to get someone to go into a sexual state because their disgust response is being triggered, so lets assume your presence provides at least a NEUTRAL state, which tbh is probably closer to reality.
If you are traditionally unattractive you are going to have to game different. You can not be direct. You can not verbally express your interest. You can not caveman. Instead you need to hook the girl into a stimulating conversation. The conversation has to be so stimulating that SHE WANTS MORE OF THE CONVERSATION and the fact you are the one giving it is completely irrelevant past the fact if she wants more she has to get it from you. You use her DESIRE to continue being emotionally and mentally stimulated (everyone seeks this) to get her to comply with what you want her to do. In essence you are trading stimulation for compliance. You use this compliance and desire for more stimulation to move her to an isolated location. You do not have to be physically attractive to get a woman to desire more conversation with you while also trusting you enough to feel safe. Neither of those things require "attraction" in the traditional sense. However, it is VERY difficult to be extremely emotionally and mentally stimulating. It took teams of scientists and psychologists years to determine how to make video games as addictive and stimulating as possible. It takes comedians years, if not decades, to be able to consistently provoke the reaction they want (involuntary laugher). It is the same for a seducer, hence why many do not exist. Just screen for interest BRUH! Which, tbh, is a pretty valid strategy.
Anyway, the way this works is you hook with stimulating conversation, you create compliance by moving her around the venue and having her do things for you. You create trust with social frame gambits. (Stand here, hold this, do that, tell me more about this, why do you think that, etc) Next you need to move to another venue. Because you are ugly and she is not thinking about having sex with you you move her to another club, or at the end of the night, food spot. Next you get her to come back to your place (or invite you to hers) using plausible deniability. Once alone you use sexual talk, sexual eye contact, and sexual touching to escalate her desire for sex. AND YOU HAPPEN TO BE THE ONLY GUY THERE THAT CAN PROVIDE IT AT THE EXACT MOMENT SHE IS DESIRING IT. Next thing you know, you are fucking the hot chick that earlier would have completely blown you off if you went in direct. The chick that would have passed a polygraph test (if such a thing even worked lmao) saying NO SHE WOULD NOT FUCK YOU just 3 hours earlier.
So in a sense this whole debate is silly. Who cares if she finds you attractive. RSD Tyler has said about 50% of his lays happen EXACTLY LIKE THAT. and about 25% of girls even outright verbalize they are not or were not physically attracted to him at all.
Here is another reason I think the "you have to be physically attractive and not fuck it up" is inaccurate. Yareally himself. a self proclaimed average to below average man, said he would have to game differently to get a woman's attention. He would go up to women and say something SO OFFENSIVE that she HAD to pay attention to him and respond. He would use that attention and response to continue to the next step of the process. So in many ways he would go in and purposely fuck it up so the woman would react to him and he could begin the process.
In a way its similar to what Facebook does with promoting negative posts, it gets people ENGAGED. Most men get engagement and attention simply from their good looks but it is not the ONLY way. With Facebook its like yes, POSITIVE posts get attention and engagement. but they get NO WHERE NEAR as much engagement as a negative post. So in essence, triggering a negative response can get more initial engagement to work with, but the only caveat is you need to be much more skilled in order to turn it around. You need this engagement in order to get her to want to listen to what you have to say. You use her attention as a way to begin working her mind with stimulating conversation topics. This is what guys who say, "how do I use sex talk with a hot girl who isnt even interested in me. She just wont even listen to what I have to say" do not understand. First you need to get her engaged in conversation then it allows you to stimulate her in different ways.
Going back to yareally, he would go up to girls and say "I WANT TO DO YOU IN THE BUM AND GIVE YOU AIDS" as a fucking opener. or even "Damn, you are sexy. I'm totally going to think about you while I jerk off later" Go up to a woman and say either of those openers and tell me you don't get her attention. Here is a perfect fucking example of that. Cajun on that stupid PUA show years ago. Watch the set where he goes in (they beep it) and says "Wow, you guys look like a bunch of retards" THE CHICK STARTS SCREAMING AT HIM TO GO AWAY! Starts at 17:59,
Side note: look how he responds to her screaming at him. He doesn't get reactive, his voice stays low and even, and he goes "listen (command), there is a reason. You ALWAYS want to say "there is a reason", I even go "there is a reason, its because...." it makes people compliant, they want to hear the reason. Plus people think oh there is a reason its not just because hes a social retard maybe I missed something here.
You can take a attractive man and show him all the ways "not to fuck it up" and that doesn't mean he will get laid. Getting laid isn't so much about not making errors or triggering a disgust and/or annoyance response. It includes that but it also includes putting her into the correct state of mind to desire sex.
I think people are too ego-centric when it comes to game. They think the woman wants "them" when in reality it is making the woman want something while positioning yourself to be the supplier. The women become infatuated with you simply because they recognize you are the source that is causing this reaction/feeling.
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Actually I remember this post I saved from the goat, YaReally, on gaming reds
Random guy's FR:
Mixed 3set HB10tall and HB8.5-9 standing with back against the wall by high table. Guy is talking to one of them then goes inside to dance floor. I consider chickening out as I’m about to head back inside to dancefloor. Decided to say fuck it then walk across their line of sight. Both of them are in ice queen mode with no expression. Damn no encouragement at all. As I wait for the crowd to move neg over the shoulder to HB10tall on how the view is up there. She plays along and says how amazing it is. See HB8.5-9 is thinking of intervening but chooses to say nothing. Tell HBTall how she looks like she could be a model. Says she’s not but her friend could be. HBfriend says that she’s not tall enough but that hbtall could be.). HBtall asks me where I’m from. Tell her to guess. She guesses wrong and leans forward as I tell her. She says wow really and I have a slight accent and asks me when I came here. Told her midnight but she was actually asking about my origins. Then told her a long time ago. Then told her that she is from america (playfully). she tells me what state she is from. Tell her she is avoiding the natural environmental hazards in her state. She says sometimes.
Ask her if she is here for the holiday and she responds she’s here for the weekend and she tells me the school she goes to. (Push/pull) I boo her school since I went to a rival school. She tells playfully tells me f you as she kinos my arm. Tell her that we’re supposed to hate each other then. Asks me where my friends are. Gesture in the direction where I was walking before. Asks me if they’re dancing or standing around. Tell her they’re sitting around and that they (2set HBs) are more fun. just a little bit more. They both laugh. Hear guy come up behind me and he starts talking to HBfriend. HBtalls says maybe we’ll bump into each other later. Give positive vibes and ask for her name. She tells me I give more positive vibes and lightly kino her then turn to say something to HBfriend. HBtall tells me laughingly that she’s busy atm.
Walk around and stay out of view of HBtall. When I look back over I see some dudes talking to her but she has a stone face at this time. Ask HB7 to dance but get ignored. Later on I see HBtall still at the same place (she hasn’t moved at all) without HBfriend. She looks bored and tired. Come up and say hi. She perks up saying hey and asks me if I’m having fun. Tell her I am but that she looks tired. Says yeah and asks me if I am. Tell her no I workout a lot, She says she does as well. (This HB is just agreeing with everything I’m saying). She wants to walk around. Asks her if she wants to get something to eat. She declines pausing then says that her stomach is full. (Too soon man). Tell her we’ll go check out the view then. Walk her to edge of patio but still too many ppl blocking the railing. HBtall says that she wants to do a dance mob). Grabbed her hand then led her to dancefloor. Had fun with her put my drink down then spun her around and she did same for me then we danced close in like in salsa.
Then she says she needs to find her friends. Grabbed her hand again and at some point due to her long legs she gets in front of me and I feel like I’m being led around like a dog on the dancefloor. Still have on a shiteating grin though. We made a lap around the venue (perhaps she wanted to see where my friends were) to where we originally met and I put my back against the wall so she’d face me. Says she needs to text her friends. Tell her ok. It was while she was texting her friend that I started getting needy and thinking I needed to say something. Thinking that I needed to say something so brain starts scanning ch for stuff to say for hb10s. Settled with neil strauss questions that he used on jessica alba. Tap her on shoulder she leans in and use the 3 qualities not on beauty routine… She leans back not saying anything and continues texting her friend. (Facepalm). HBfriend arrives telling her to leave. Hbtall says that it was nice meeting me, tell her the same and I get a mediocre hug. Proceed to bang head against wall.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YaReally on how he should have gone about it:
I'd go inside and order a drink beside their buddy and chat him up, befriend him, maybe introduce a random girl to him to test if one of those girls is his girlfriend (like he goes “ah I can’t I’m here with my gf”) and then I'd gone and done a lap and then open a set of girls with a disqualifying opener so they can’t reject me (like telling them I have a gf but bla bla and engaging them in a Buying Temp spiking conversation) near the 10 sets on the patio where the girls giggle loudly and that set glanced over and buddy can say “oh I met that guy inside he’s a cool guy bla bla” and then I can leave the girls on a spikes BT note and pass the 10 set where the guy is likely to reopen me and if he doesn’t I can just pretend to recognize him and go “hey! Buddy! Look at you with 2 beautiful girls no wonder you weren’t into that weird chick inside lol” I should have enough value to get into that set smoothly enough to run group theory, engage the guy ignore the girls and DHV till I’m getting A2 from the girls and ideally ignore the target till she’s giving solid A2, tease her for it, qualify and go from there.
From their perspective I was just some cool social guy who randomly befriended their dude friend inside, makes girls giggle, and isn’t desperate or needy or trying to directly take value by going right for the 10 and, in fact, she has to EARN my attention/interest, which means she’s chasing/choosing me, which means her friends are less likely to interfere.
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because
you trying bang that comedian, tr1cky?
you see me being direct/verbally expressing my interest/cavemanning girls in how I hook girls?
FR - Saturday Night - To freebee or not to freebee?
I started the night earlier than Friday, at 10:30PM. There were 8 sets I approached total. I will only go through four of them. Set 1: This was my second set of the night. It was a 2-set. I opened Girl A with, "Hey, I really like your top. It's very colorful." She responded with "thanks!"...
www.skilledseducer.com
ya. explained in my post above on how I do this.
she needs to think you're either physically attractive (looks/fundamentals) or socially proofed to death, to even begin having a conversation with her that can lead to sex. otherwise
not really
ya lol
no you don't (unless that other venue is your/her house)
no shit
Surprise I have a penis!!!
if she thinks your ugly she would've blown you off even if you'd gone indirect
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I'm with ya on most of your points but not this.
A 2? Maybe by movie star standards. I think you're only noticing men who you see as competition or something. Take a look around I'M fuckin thin in shape and attractive compared to 19 of 20 guys. Bunch of fat weird dorks and old men out there. Even in a top flight Vegas club on spring break Tyler would be like a 6-7 subjective. Hed only be a maybe a four bottom rung in like Miami Beach top end places.
Tyler pulls that "im a fat balding ginger" for marketing purposes. He's average at worst, moderately attractive to many women, probably somes "type".
Which is the case with almost anyone i've ever seen in this community.
Hell Tylers maybe ahead of the curve. I wouldn't see him with a dime and go "WTF, that guys out of his weight class".
I mean yeah show up with severe acne, or 100 lbs overweight or 75 years old and complain about looks matter. Anything else is just a copout to not train up better influence skills.
I don't see what the appeal of even being here (on this forum, with its topic) is except to troll if you don't believe you can cold approach lay women outside of your normal "hookup range" based on tech.
Gun
You're probably right, memory isn't as good as used to be
Maybe sucked is the wrong word. There were several Mystery clones and guys from the early RSD crew, this was back when their workshops were only focused on throwing newbies into sets to help them get over their fear of approaching. (It was the first time I saw 30 guys going all retard on the street taking turns and running the EXACT same opener on the one poor girl trying to walk by.)
They talked up their games so much on mASF. It was the first time I was meeting an experienced PUA and I had huge expectations from all their big talk on mASF. Nothing but uncalibrated approach after uncalibrated approach the whole night. For newbies, these guys were gods because they had no fear of approaching any girl, but they didn't have the skills neither to consistently pull ass. The standard for what classified as "good" was much lower back then.
This was in the early mASF days, it was just was a huge disappointment for me after all the big online talk. I'm sure the standard had gone up higher in the later years.
Don't get me wrong, I've met some guys who were also REALLY good as well, but they weren't so well known as RSD or Mystery who were looked up to as PU Gods at the time.
From what I could see, you were running a discreet, subtle laid back game heavy on verbals. It was cool and eye opening to see a completely different game than what I'm used to.
You know me dude, I may appear smooth and calibrated on the outside but I go in with a very aggressive "all guns blazing" mental attitude with a lot of KINO which I would need to dial back quite a bit to pull from that place. I would probably need 5-10 nights at that place to make the adaptation but fuck it opened so damn late, I just don't have that sort of energy at 5 AM any more.
Haha.... I forgot to mention that nearly every girl I talked to at that place, asked me "How do you know Teevster?" and then I asked them how they knew you and they all said, they had been together with you (there were quite a few broken hearts there) ..... then I thought "OK, Teevster owns this place!"
It does sound weird but still damn impressive. Before I met you, never in a million years would I have thought to pick up women at a gay club.
We all have our fetishes, we do what needs to be done in order to get our fix. Yours just happens to be GAY-GAME. Like I said, damn impressive, respect!
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That's why I only give people with infields some sort of benefit of doubt with this stuff, personally (and of course even those can be faked as many popular PUA's have been discovered to have done)
I've spoke to 'pua's on discord etc who claim to be able to bang on "at least 95% of their cold approaches" and I KNOW that they are living in dream land, but it is what it is. It's a funny community
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Here is a lay report:
so i had a girl over (sex of course) showing her this post interviewing her:
me: reading teevester compliance on the post and explaining it to her
her: there is no way i would fuck a guy i am not attracted to
me: ok but have you ever seen a guy you had 0 physical attraction but as he display it personality you gave him a second look
her: yes that happened to me at work once, but then i started thinking and say NO WAY
me: i explained to her couple of women have done that and gave her the examples of other girls i know and been with.
her: no i don't see that happening at all...
me: remember the story you told me that you have 0 sexual attraction and 0 interest in your second cousin?
So here is what happened, second cousin came from out of state, they went out drinking (no she was not drunk and she had awareness)....
she served him food and was going to take the plate from the table, he grabbed her and started kissing her, and fucked her while he was fucking her she was thinking about her ex boyfriend....(second cousin is a player with different women all the time, but she had 0 attraction, 0 sexual thoughts, nothing)
after that he kept trying and calling her, she ghosted him.....
so i had a girl over (sex of course) showing her this post interviewing her:
me: reading teevester compliance on the post and explaining it to her
her: there is no way i would fuck a guy i am not attracted to
me: ok but have you ever seen a guy you had 0 physical attraction but as he display it personality you gave him a second look
her: yes that happened to me at work once, but then i started thinking and say NO WAY
me: i explained to her couple of women have done that and gave her the examples of other girls i know and been with.
her: no i don't see that happening at all...
me: remember the story you told me that you have 0 sexual attraction and 0 interest in your second cousin?
So here is what happened, second cousin came from out of state, they went out drinking (no she was not drunk and she had awareness)....
she served him food and was going to take the plate from the table, he grabbed her and started kissing her, and fucked her while he was fucking her she was thinking about her ex boyfriend....(second cousin is a player with different women all the time, but she had 0 attraction, 0 sexual thoughts, nothing)
after that he kept trying and calling her, she ghosted him.....
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He also wasn't a complete stranger. Being her relative, he had both familiarity, and she felt safe enough around him (he's her cousin afterall), to invite him to her house. And then proceeded to betray that trust and rape her...good game...lol
No but, I think the members on this forum are interested in strategies on how to seduce a girl you just met, that doesn't find you physically attractive. For me, after sifting through these comments (and re-reading the OP), I feel that filter perception game - namely creating social proof (which is really the only one you can create out of the blue/in your control, upon seeing the girl you want to approach, out of all the filters listed in the OP (can't control whether she's on the pill or not (In my opinion, after interviewing several girls post lay, this is an non-factor anyway. but that's getting off-topic), can't control whether she's horny or not before you approach her (maybe you wait till someone else has spiked her buying temperature, and then you swoop in to steal her), and you can't just turn yourself into "god mode" when you're currently in a shit state as you see your girl) (the way RazorJack talked about on the first page of this thread, and the comment I posted on the previous page, on how YaReally would go about it) in front of your target (there is no way to know beforehand if she's a red, so you should resort to this strategy only if she's extremely hot, like Teevster advocates with regards to gaming reds) rather than directly going up to her, and trying to turn around her initial look of disgust at you, is the best way to go about approaching reds.
Edit: Here's RSDTyler (traditionally ugly dude with status) using the "make her think I'm cool"/social proof strategy a different way:
Tyler approaches 300 girls a week. Adds them all to his Instagram. Publishes fun instagram stories daily. Then the girls who consistently watch his stories, he invites to his home parties. Becomes friends with them. And when they happen to be horny, they will fuck him. Because of the volume, he can make that small percentage work for him as a consistent way to sex. But it’s not based on sexual tension. It is based on a cool guy who is safe to fuck, so when the girl is horny, she’s like “why not, he is here, he is cool, he has a penis.”
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He did not rape her... and i don't think that is good game, just illustrating a guy she was not attracted to, she would never even remotely think of fucking, family member, and she was not drunk (drunk equals rape), but she had couple of drinks.... keep in mind she had drank for the same level multiple times and multiple times guys have tried and she had rejected them (she has high awareness when drinking)....