Np! Yeah man I know it's really frustating... Its sunny... I just want this to finish, take a beer pack and chill with friends at the quais de seine...
Ok got your point, thanks for clarifying =).
Klimax
Attraction - Can it be Generated? - An Introduction to Compliance-Based Game
- Thread starter Teevster
- Start date
Ok got your point, thanks for clarifying =).
Klimax
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My take on this matter is that both red and yellow girls can be changed into green with game, if you have good game you can change how a girl percieves you and make her change her mind into fucking you.
In th GC/podcast i talk that you should not try to change yellow and red girls because that is a waste of time. This advice is for newbies and intermediats to not go for yellow girls. Changing reds into yellow and later on getting them green takes a big amount of game and time. When you reached the highest levels of game you got a huge skillset, red girls can be changed. I seen few people doing this, Teevster is one of the few people besides myself that i seen in field pulling this off. There are plenty of material you can use to change a girls opinion about you. To be honest i think this thread belongs under the "advanced" section becouse this can be a bit confusing for newbies to even grasp.
My disclaimer here is that some reds are impossible no matter what amount of game you have, if something about you triggers a trauma in the girl it will actually be impossible to change her mind about you.
Just my 2 cent about the matter.
Pablo
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Pablo told Varoon and K to forget about "yellows" not "reds". He said you can't get "reds".
48:00 - 53:00
Podcast with the Girls Chase Seduction A-Team: Lessons from Stockholm
Welcome back to another episode of Dating Mechanics! For this podcast, I have something different and special for you. A few of us Girls Chase authors met up in Stockholm, Sweden this past summer for a few days and nights. We met up with each other (some for the first time), met plenty of women...www.girlschase.com
but maybe his thoughts have changed since then?
Just to clarify.
I would never advice anyone to go for reds because it is very hard and most of the time a big waste of time. In the GC/podcast we cover seduction material for the mass, i'm advicing most dudes to stay away from yellow girls and go for the greens. That does not mean you can't change yellow or red girls into green. Just nothing i talk about here because this is so far away from most guys reality that it would be confusing. I still beleive that most dudes mistake in field is that they stay too long at yellow girls when they should get experience through finding greens and better their game/skills. When you get better you need more of a challange, then you will try to game harder girls and yellow girls are a good way of practicing that on. But this is only for advanced dudes with a huge skillset and aboundance of girls.
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@Teevster dude! That's true you didn't say you could be successful with all of them but I'm guessing flatrons experience with this is similar to @greenleaf example of getting a palm in the face. With this experience as a reference point he'll be stuck with this belief.
The alternative is that his idea of a red is a girl like this with 0 attraction, 0 compliance, 0 interest (maybe even negative) who has written you off immediately for whatever reason. The same way we'll see girls that we wouldn't approach, a no on a fuck yes/no scale. Just as you can be one girl's personal 10 you can be another's personal 5. She might acknowledge most girls see you as a 6 or 7 but she's neutral to you.
For the availability I read an article on good looking loser that discussed sexual availability where it mentioned that a girl can be in a mood or an un social mood for a number of reasons and not be into you that night. See her again tomorrow and she could have turned 180 and all over you. Even social proof might not help in this situation.
The issue with this is you may never see her again and you'd always rationalise she didn't like you or thought you were ugly which isn't always the case.
Ultimately I think flatron highlighted his limited belief or lack of experience with this and it'll be difficult to break this paradigm for a lot of guys. That's going out of the scope of this thread...
The big thing is defining a red (@Bacchus has just posted a great green red continuum in another thread) in my opinion I would define a girl that gave me time of day as a yellow and girls that flat out ignore me and not interested at all as a red. Where skills mentioned you can try again later after getting social proof or used preselection.
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@Razorjack dude! Thanks for the very detailed response. I think you might have misread my post a little but I'm grateful for the breakdown and it's actually put a lot of pieces together in my head from past interactions.@Fluxcapacitor
I'll take a crack at breaking this "hijack her system" down to you, at least how I do it.
I've never explained this to anybody before, so it may take a few iterations with Q&A to structure this properly, it's a bit complex (which is why it's not taught nowadays) but just bear with me
After 2 years into my PU journey, I never got an extremely harsh rejection, I'll try to explain why.
First you may be misunderstanding something. It's not I approach, she puts palm in my face and I hijack her system. It's more like I approach, so she ends up in "my sphere of influence" that hijacks her system and she is completely receptive so she never puts her palm in my face to begin with.
I need to introduce this term, "sphere of influence", by the way I don't know if there is an official term for this, this just the only way I can describe it. But more on this later
Continuing on....
Question: Why do people in a church behave one way and the same people in a nightclub behave another way?
And more importantly what is causing them to change and adapt their behavior (or let's say compliance
It is some form of authoritative influence, it dictates how people behave in church, another authoritative influence at a work office, another at a bar / nightclub.
Hope you're with me so far.
Now, this authoritative influence, who owns it exactly or what is it exactly? It'll be different things in different places, at the work office it could be the highest boss, at church the head priest or group of priests etc. But it is they that dictate and influence other people's behavior.
So a couple of questions come up:
The answers:
- Is the authority figure (person with authoritative influence) only have authoritative influence in the place or can he / she take it with him to wherever they go?
- If he/she can take it with him then what does it take for example to make people in a nightclub behave as if they are in church?
So how can this be applied to hijack her system?
- Yes, they can take it with them (however most of them and other people don't realize this)
- Super tight mental frame or as @Teevster put it in the OP: "Really tight and powerful game!"
We need to go back to this "Spehere of influence" I mentioned earlier.
Hopefully you are familiar with concept of Awareness Radius (AR?), basically how far your awareness what is happening around you, extends. What if I told you that you also have a "sphere of influence?" This is the sphere around you that influences the people around you.
Believe it or not you do this already, for example with your FWB relationships, the girls fall in line with your mental frame. You are the authority figure and your mental frame is the authoritative influence when you interact and hook up with your FWBs
What we are talking about is AMPLIFYING THE SHIT OUT of your mental frame (increase your "sphere of influence") AND taking it with you outside of your bedroom to the nightclub to include new girls that put their palms up in guys' faces.
This is what @Teevster meant when he wrote in the OP that you need "Really tight and powerful game!" together with "VERY strong and powerful material - i.e. things that are so powerful that you hijack her system and you also need to deliver it almost crisp perfect"
The way I would describe it is you need to have total belief in your mental frame with zero incongruence (just like with your FWBs) but amplified to the max. So that when you approach the girl, you place her into your "sphere of influence" or let's say you hijack her system the same way that your mental frame dominates your FWB girls.
If you've ever read some of my LRs from my mASF days, I sometimes referred to being in "PU God Mode" this is what I was referring to, my "sphere of influence" was MASSIVE and POWERFUL, that's how I did the unreal shit that most guys on here think is impossible.
Ok, I know this concept might seem abstract and complex so there is probably alot of questions, so fire away.
My question of how many harsh rejections do you get was rhetorical, I haven't faced a harsh rejection yet from the girl (I've had a very harsh rejection from one of my targets friends where she screamed in my face telling me to go away, followed by two white knighting guys. This wasn't even an uncalibrated approach in my onion she was on the edge of the group, not involved with them, gave me an AI, I said hi then got screamed at).
I've never had a palm in my face, greenleaf gave an example where this happened to him. I think it's possibly too late to hijack her system then Haha. I understand you don't let this happen and I can relate your soul gazing technique being very powerful to hijack her system even further with your sphere of influence.
I'm familiar with awareness radius and think it's a great way to think about sphere of influence. What this puts together for me is how some of my blue pill/ nice guy friends are confused why girls approach me, buy me drinks and are very receptive to me when they don't get the same results and I'm guessing it's with the sphere of influence.
How would you go about maxing it out and being more consistent with it? I find when I'm on low momentum I can't do anything right and whatever I try fails, I overthink what I'm doing more an usually make even more mistakes.
Again thanks for the breakdown on the concept dude!
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I feel like people are saying that I'm saying converting Reds to Green cannot be done.
I am NOT saying that! Yes, you can. It's definitely possible, and you can do it. Day Game, Night Game, etc. It's always possible to do - in any kind of game environment (maybe even online and apps? haha).
The question is - do you want to do it?
Yes, I distinctly remember this experience; ironically I went and approached her later, and I felt she was much warmer to me from the start, but even then she walked away in the end.
However, your post I think this accurately describes the crux of the matter, actually, as a great example. Namely - because you stopped pumping her state, it dropped and she left.
Of course at first maybe she was Red, and as you stuck around and you kept on working on her, maybe she started to realize that you're not actually her first impression of whom you thought you were. She got curious, and started to ask you questions.
But - the point is that this whole interaction was entirely dependent on YOUR drive. With this girl, it would have been that way from that moment all the way up to when you'd have to be at your home and get inside her. With zero mistakes made, with this girl - I think you could have done it. But to do it, you'd have to be leading her 99.5% of the time, with zero mistakes, and setting all the coolest frames AND fighting any notion of her not being attracted to you (even physically) for whatever reason she has...
No one is saying Red's CAN'T be flipped. The question is whether or not you want to expend the effort.
With that in mind also - WHEN you've acquired amazing and consistent game skills, the whole game mindset changes for a lot of men. Suddenly you find yourself with a working system and get women very often - especially the greens and some of the yellows. It's like clockwork because you understand game, women, and know how much they love sex, and know exactly how to get them there anytime. Suddenly in absolutely abundance, you find yourself with many options at your fingers - and once you KNOW how women work, it's easy to apply the skillset to understanding what was previously difficult - the Red girls.
Reds become viable because you know game and you know what to do to work them - might as well try.
I think this is why taking shots with Reds like in your story also makes perfect sense to do once you've reached a certain level. By all means if you want to get better at that point, that's the way to do it. Also, if you want to get truly satisfying and exciting experiences, that's a great way to do it.
However, flipping the Red takes skill. It's advanced. It's like Expert Boss Level, almost.
Most guys are not in it to be the mPUA.
Same thing here - because you stopped putting in effort, it died. And you're saying you could have - yeah, it was all dependent on you.
I agree that the right Daygame environment for attempting this is one where you can easily be one on one with her and there's no rush to go anywhere. Like, a bookstore or coffee shop, it's potentially feasible.
Street game is also my own specialty, so I think maybe this is why I personally prefer to just move on from the red and find the green - in that setting. Simply because the volume is there (especially where I live) that you don't need to waste your time trying to flip a red to a green - just go find a green or even a yellow that looks just as good.
Now, in a setting like a bar or a club, you're going to have a much limited number of girls for the whole night. Same thing with a bookstore or even a bus stop - I think in either place IF you can get her attention and keep it, even if she starts as a red you can definitely use game to flip her and try to make it happen. Your options are going to be more limited anyway.
Yes, definitely. Like I said above once you've acquired all these skills - and these take a little bit of time to learn and get right in It's with each other - then you can use them and attempt it. All the tech you've listed is great and can be used methodically to get the job done. And yet, even after all of it there's still a possibility that it won't work, of course. You might make a mistake, some frame was missed, or something else happens and intervenes, or she changes her mind in LMR.
Hell, you could have even done it with the girl in Montreal. But, it would be entirely dependent on you leading the way and making the sale. Maybe it will even take 18-24 hours, haha....
This is like the art of becoming the master car salesman. It's advanced and highly nuanced.
This is also exactly how I feel, by the way, and what I was advocating for in my article on the Traffic Light System as well for the record.
Advanced guys can honestly do whatever the hell they want - if you're good and you want a challenge, you should go for the most difficult girls and situations if you want to. At that point who cares, really? At this level you'll likely already be in the triple digits, or high double digits, so the challenges become more interesting. Go for the Reds - but at this level these same guys are not surprised or demotivated if/when such girls become a waste of time. Sometimes even with PERFECT game, these girls can still be a toss up. Sometimes they flip to greens, and sometimes they simply become yellows.
Whereas, in the entire time you spent trying to flip her, you could have likely found a Green or two and already have been deep inside her.
I am NOT saying that! Yes, you can. It's definitely possible, and you can do it. Day Game, Night Game, etc. It's always possible to do - in any kind of game environment (maybe even online and apps? haha).
The question is - do you want to do it?
Yes, I distinctly remember this experience; ironically I went and approached her later, and I felt she was much warmer to me from the start, but even then she walked away in the end.
However, your post I think this accurately describes the crux of the matter, actually, as a great example. Namely - because you stopped pumping her state, it dropped and she left.
Of course at first maybe she was Red, and as you stuck around and you kept on working on her, maybe she started to realize that you're not actually her first impression of whom you thought you were. She got curious, and started to ask you questions.
But - the point is that this whole interaction was entirely dependent on YOUR drive. With this girl, it would have been that way from that moment all the way up to when you'd have to be at your home and get inside her. With zero mistakes made, with this girl - I think you could have done it. But to do it, you'd have to be leading her 99.5% of the time, with zero mistakes, and setting all the coolest frames AND fighting any notion of her not being attracted to you (even physically) for whatever reason she has...
No one is saying Red's CAN'T be flipped. The question is whether or not you want to expend the effort.
With that in mind also - WHEN you've acquired amazing and consistent game skills, the whole game mindset changes for a lot of men. Suddenly you find yourself with a working system and get women very often - especially the greens and some of the yellows. It's like clockwork because you understand game, women, and know how much they love sex, and know exactly how to get them there anytime. Suddenly in absolutely abundance, you find yourself with many options at your fingers - and once you KNOW how women work, it's easy to apply the skillset to understanding what was previously difficult - the Red girls.
Reds become viable because you know game and you know what to do to work them - might as well try.
I think this is why taking shots with Reds like in your story also makes perfect sense to do once you've reached a certain level. By all means if you want to get better at that point, that's the way to do it. Also, if you want to get truly satisfying and exciting experiences, that's a great way to do it.
However, flipping the Red takes skill. It's advanced. It's like Expert Boss Level, almost.
Most guys are not in it to be the mPUA.
Same thing here - because you stopped putting in effort, it died. And you're saying you could have - yeah, it was all dependent on you.
I agree that the right Daygame environment for attempting this is one where you can easily be one on one with her and there's no rush to go anywhere. Like, a bookstore or coffee shop, it's potentially feasible.
Street game is also my own specialty, so I think maybe this is why I personally prefer to just move on from the red and find the green - in that setting. Simply because the volume is there (especially where I live) that you don't need to waste your time trying to flip a red to a green - just go find a green or even a yellow that looks just as good.
Now, in a setting like a bar or a club, you're going to have a much limited number of girls for the whole night. Same thing with a bookstore or even a bus stop - I think in either place IF you can get her attention and keep it, even if she starts as a red you can definitely use game to flip her and try to make it happen. Your options are going to be more limited anyway.
Yes, definitely. Like I said above once you've acquired all these skills - and these take a little bit of time to learn and get right in It's with each other - then you can use them and attempt it. All the tech you've listed is great and can be used methodically to get the job done. And yet, even after all of it there's still a possibility that it won't work, of course. You might make a mistake, some frame was missed, or something else happens and intervenes, or she changes her mind in LMR.
Hell, you could have even done it with the girl in Montreal. But, it would be entirely dependent on you leading the way and making the sale. Maybe it will even take 18-24 hours, haha....
This is like the art of becoming the master car salesman. It's advanced and highly nuanced.
This is also exactly how I feel, by the way, and what I was advocating for in my article on the Traffic Light System as well for the record.
Advanced guys can honestly do whatever the hell they want - if you're good and you want a challenge, you should go for the most difficult girls and situations if you want to. At that point who cares, really? At this level you'll likely already be in the triple digits, or high double digits, so the challenges become more interesting. Go for the Reds - but at this level these same guys are not surprised or demotivated if/when such girls become a waste of time. Sometimes even with PERFECT game, these girls can still be a toss up. Sometimes they flip to greens, and sometimes they simply become yellows.
Whereas, in the entire time you spent trying to flip her, you could have likely found a Green or two and already have been deep inside her.
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Speaking of 'reds' and 'greens' was just watching this movie, "two hands" with Heath Ledger (pretty shit movie, don't recommend lol). but this particular scene, was super good, in that it shows a clear illustration between a girl that's a 'red' to one dude and a 'green' to another.
36:34 - 39:00 (might wanna change the playback speed to 0:75 or just turn the volume off and observe their body language)
brutal
36:34 - 39:00 (might wanna change the playback speed to 0:75 or just turn the volume off and observe their body language)
brutal
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@Velasco dude! Haha I know what that sounds like and I've told them all to come here or at least read the articles and they don't. Or if they do they don't pay attention.
What I mean with this is how girls will see the lover value with me but the provider value with them because that's their belief system and so the girls will detect this and act accordingly.
However it is girls sense this they'll know they're not going to comply the same way to their belief system and thus less pull to their sphere of influence. Or equal pull but to a slower game style.
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I feel like this is the copout answer on this thread. Guys here saying yes, you can absolutely flip 'reds', I've even done it! (when really they were 'yellows' because they were at least willing to interact with you, and listen to what you have to say) But its not worth it, so I only go for 'greens' and 'yellows'. While the others guys are saying fuck 'reds' (me included) it is what it is, you can't get every girl lol, so just screen for 'greens' and 'yellows'. And they'll say like there is a huge skill gap (''expert boss level') between both guys, when really to get a girl who isn't physically attracted to you'll have to rely on factors that are outside of your control (she's horny + there's no one around that's she IS physically attracted to (in a bar, that's unlikely).
Chase:
You can also excite and sleep with women who are not fascinated with you, but it’s harder and rarer. You either have to meet such a girl in a situation where she really wants it (e.g., she’s horny, and you’re only the guy making a serious play for her; you’re not ideal, but you’re better than nothing), or you have to have enough time and opportunity to build excitement with her (and hope no one she’s more fascinated with than you plucks her off you before she’s yours).
Attraction is Either There, or It Isn't
Attraction is there at the beginning, or it never fully shows up to the same extent. What determines attraction – and why can’t you ‘create’ it? This is going to be a weird article for some readers. On the one hand, I’m going to challenge some basic assumptions you may have. But on the other...
www.girlschase.com
yes and unlike Gunwitch's point earlier in the thread that screening for 'greens' and 'yellows' will only result in girls within your 'normal hookup range', as Pablo says in the podcast (53:40 -54:40) her level of attractiveness (on the 1-10 HB scale) has nothing to do with what her color is towards you.
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I feel like this is the copout answer on this thread. Guys here saying yes, you can absolutely flip 'reds', I've even done it! (when really they were 'yellows' because they were at least willing to interact with you, and listen to what you have to say) But its not worth it, so I only go for 'greens' and 'yellows'. While the others guys are saying fuck 'reds' (me included) it is what it is, you can't get every girl lol, so just screen for 'greens' and 'yellows'. And they'll say like there is a huge skill gap (''expert boss level') between both guys, when really to get a girl who isn't physically attracted to you'll have to rely on factors that are outside of your control (she's horny + there's no one around that's she IS physically attracted to (in a bar, that's unlikely).
Chase:
You can also excite and sleep with women who are not fascinated with you, but it’s harder and rarer. You either have to meet such a girl in a situation where she really wants it (e.g., she’s horny, and you’re only the guy making a serious play for her; you’re not ideal, but you’re better than nothing), or you have to have enough time and opportunity to build excitement with her (and hope no one she’s more fascinated with than you plucks her off you before she’s yours).
Attraction is Either There, or It Isn't
Attraction is there at the beginning, or it never fully shows up to the same extent. What determines attraction – and why can’t you ‘create’ it? This is going to be a weird article for some readers. On the one hand, I’m going to challenge some basic assumptions you may have. But on the other...
yes and unlike Gunwitch's point earlier in the thread that screening for 'greens' and 'yellows' will only result in girls within your 'normal hookup range', as Pablo says in the podcast (53:40 -54:40) her level of attractiveness (on the 1-10 HB scale) has nothing to do with what her color is towards you.
you are lumping in too many people, i am not in the camp "you need huge skillset" and the likes, and i am in the camp of NOT EVERY RED can be converted, but you are not being honest in this argument.... You keep saying they are really yellows, you were not there, how can you know this?
I will explain it to you, SOME reds (not all), can be converted in my book 2 ways, with compliance and by enough time spent with her so you can change her perception of you from her.... And notice how you say "factors outside your control" in every seduction green, yellow and red, there are factors outside your control, that is not an argument...
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To some guys, going for Reds is worth it. It's a choice they're making. There's also no guarantee that she'll flip if you go for her, even with the best game. Sometimes they will, though...
I don't think there has to be a huge skill gap between both kinds of guys. It's just a choice that each guy is making.
There are also guys that HAVE the game skill to get the Reds and flip them, and simply don't want to - just screen them out like you said and focus on the Greens and Yellows because it's a better return.
I cannot comment on this, I think it's so variable that there's no specific technique you can point to here that's all encompassing.
Why does screening for Greens and Yellows result only in a normal hookup range? You're the one choosing whom to approach, so it's on you if you're only going for your normal girls.
In terms of SKILL, when you're learning a girl CAN seem like a Red, and then as you get better that same level of girl suddenly becomes attainable and is now a Green or Yellow. In terms of advocating a guy to push to learn and stretch his limits to get what he really wants - absolutely go for it. This is is one of the best ways to get better of course.
Yes her level of attractiveness has nothing to do with her color towards you. In fact, one of the weirdest things that I've noticed as I've gotten better in MY game is that NOW it's the less attractive girls that are the Reds - like 6s and 7s and 7.5s (and girls that I'm not attracted to all that much) are far less receptive than some 8s, 8.5s and 9s who find me attractive and interesting off the bat. So now the less attainable girls are actually the less attractive girls - and this means to me now that I do better with the hotter girls I'm into, and I get better AND hotter results when I go and approach those girls in the first place. The challenge I have these days is finding girls whom are hot enough in my city, because it's honestly full of 7s.
This also goes to Bacchus' example earlier - his girl was a Red and he tried to flip a little bit, but at the end of the day HE wasn't really attracted to her, and ejected to spend more time finding a girl he's really attracted to.
Which is again to the point of the Red - do you really want it? I'd rather have a Green 8-9 than a Red 6-7. Why would I expend my effort on approaching and trying to flip a Red 6-7 when I know that the 8-9 is attainable and out there?
Of course everyone hear is only imagining the Red who's a 9-9.5 that's probably mouth watering or something - if there's a Red 9-9.5, maybe it's worth a shot over the Green 8-9 that's in hand and you know how to get. That takes serious game and skill, and it might work and it might not.
This is a "Bird in Hand, or Two in the Bush" question.
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I believe there's a type of reds you can convert in a single night/day interaction. Those girls who are in a bad mood (which has nothing to do with you). Stick in there and before you know it, she'll start giving you stuff to work with (become a yellow).
Agreed
What is your arguement? I know that whether she's a green, yellow, or red when I open her, is not in my control. What does that have to do with, having to rely on luck in order to get reds? Where you have more control with greens and yellows (she doesnt need to be horny when you open her, you dont need to worry about another guy coming into your set and take her away, because she's already physically attracted to you. Just dont be boring and escalate (easier said than done).
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Idk that was gunwitch who said that
Lol nice!
Agreed
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I think this entire thread has two different arguments and ideas that are getting mixed up:
1. There are Girls whom are Reds only because you're not good enough in Skill yet. These hot girls are what YOU want, but they aren't attainable to YOU. With enough skill and with really good fundamentals, these girls can become Greens or Yellows to you. Use compliance game as a skill building exercise to get these girls and get better, and you can also achieve great results with these girls thru compliance based game.
2. There are Girls whom are truly Reds because they never have and never WILL like you OR you're just way higher value than them and you're accustomed to hotter girls (the girls don't think you're attainable anyway and that's why they're Reds); the effort put in to get these girls is a questionable return and may or may not work. Fuck these girls, focus on screening for the Greens and Yellows, especially as you're learning and building yourself up. If you've got some elite level game skills though, you can challenge yourself and use your game through compliance to flip her into a Green and close on her. May not work every time.
1. There are Girls whom are Reds only because you're not good enough in Skill yet. These hot girls are what YOU want, but they aren't attainable to YOU. With enough skill and with really good fundamentals, these girls can become Greens or Yellows to you. Use compliance game as a skill building exercise to get these girls and get better, and you can also achieve great results with these girls thru compliance based game.
2. There are Girls whom are truly Reds because they never have and never WILL like you OR you're just way higher value than them and you're accustomed to hotter girls (the girls don't think you're attainable anyway and that's why they're Reds); the effort put in to get these girls is a questionable return and may or may not work. Fuck these girls, focus on screening for the Greens and Yellows, especially as you're learning and building yourself up. If you've got some elite level game skills though, you can challenge yourself and use your game through compliance to flip her into a Green and close on her. May not work every time.
We got there in the end
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Reading this comment (trying to lay a 'red' 9.5 VS go for a 'green' 9), and the last couple of comments on @Ree now locked thread between @Truthtomasses (who was called a troll by razorjack) and @Ree on the importance of location, I was reminded of this comment by @Razorjack on sedfast last year. Where he talked about why he'd go for an 'easy' 8 over a 'time consuming' 10, everytime. Didnt really think much of it at the time until now:
What I'm trying to get to here is the environment and places that where you are picking up women is going to make a huge difference to your success as a seducer for the women that you are interested in. I'm not interested in "learning seductions skills or pick up game", I'm more interested in efficiently getting results. So if I were to advise my younger self on becoming more successful with women or money, my advice would be rather than spending your time trying to improve skills in the gaming environment you're in, you would see a huge improvement in results by simply changing the parameters of the game or the gaming environment, e.g. stacking the deck in your favor.
People would be more successful if they evaluate and understand what it is they REALLY want. For example, I know that many will probably dismiss this as "gold-digger" pick up game or that this isn't "real seduction game" or whatever they want to label it. I would argue that these people are more interested in "learning to be a seducer or looking like a great pick up artist" rather than actual results with women. Yes, there are people like this. I meet them all the time, people who complain that making lots of money and becoming financially successful is difficult. When I explain to them that it's actually very easy following some simple principles and billionaires wouldn't become billionaires if it was very difficult, they dismiss is it as not realistic and couldn't be that easy. Then it's obvious to me that what these people REALLY want is getting satisfaction from working very hard NOT in becoming wealthy. There is nothing wrong with getting satisfaction from hard work but people become their own worst enemies and blockers to their own success when they complain about not getting results but at the same time don't realize that they deep down REALLY want something else.
And THAT is how a "rusty" 48 year old like me can hook hot girls half his age in a Copenhagen night club full of young girls without doing anything other than saying "hi"
Reading this comment (trying to lay a 'red' 9.5 VS go for a 'green' 9), and the last couple of comments on @Ree now locked thread between @Truthtomasses (who was called a troll by razorjack) and @Ree on the importance of location, I was reminded of this comment by @Razorjack on sedfast last year. Where he talked about why he'd go for an 'easy' 8 over a 'time consuming' 10, everytime. Didnt really think much of it at the time until now:
What I'm trying to get to here is the environment and places that where you are picking up women is going to make a huge difference to your success as a seducer for the women that you are interested in. I'm not interested in "learning seductions skills or pick up game", I'm more interested in efficiently getting results. So if I were to advise my younger self on becoming more successful with women or money, my advice would be rather than spending your time trying to improve skills in the gaming environment you're in, you would see a huge improvement in results by simply changing the parameters of the game or the gaming environment, e.g. stacking the deck in your favor.
People would be more successful if they evaluate and understand what it is they REALLY want. For example, I know that many will probably dismiss this as "gold-digger" pick up game or that this isn't "real seduction game" or whatever they want to label it. I would argue that these people are more interested in "learning to be a seducer or looking like a great pick up artist" rather than actual results with women. Yes, there are people like this. I meet them all the time, people who complain that making lots of money and becoming financially successful is difficult. When I explain to them that it's actually very easy following some simple principles and billionaires wouldn't become billionaires if it was very difficult, they dismiss is it as not realistic and couldn't be that easy. Then it's obvious to me that what these people REALLY want is getting satisfaction from working very hard NOT in becoming wealthy. There is nothing wrong with getting satisfaction from hard work but people become their own worst enemies and blockers to their own success when they complain about not getting results but at the same time don't realize that they deep down REALLY want something else.
And THAT is how a "rusty" 48 year old like me can hook hot girls half his age in a Copenhagen night club full of young girls without doing anything other than saying "hi"
@Velasco and everyone else....
A couple of things to clear up:
I didn't flag @Truthtomasses ' post.. I've never flagged a post ever on any forum, don't need to, I will call out bullshit and delusional KJ nonsense where I see it. Other members flagged it, which earned it the "troll post" label. I called him a troll because he was making absolute statements (not opinions) about needing money, status, good looks and all that other excuse making KJ nonsense to get women.
What you quoted from me on Next ASF is only half the story on the "easy 8" vs "time-consuming 10":
- Do you remember the thread "A tale of 2 naturals"? In Scandinavia my "market value" is lower than M-natural's. he can get "10s" easier and quicker than I can.
- In other countries / cultures where wealth / celebrity status is admired, I can get "10s" easier and quicker than M-natural. This is my market..
- The point I was trying to make is time is your most valuable asset. Lost money you can always get back and make more, lost time you can never get back. So purely focused on time efficiency, if I was doing pick up in Scandinavia I would go for the "easy 8" (or "easy 10") all day everyday over the "time consuming 10", simply because of the time it takes to close.
- However if I wanted only 10s, then I would travel to a place where my personal "market value" is sky high, e.g. Eastern Europe, Japan, US, etc where it takes much less time for me to get 10s.
- So the point was not to settle for "easy 8s" over "time-consuming 10s", the point was to learn your "market value", figure out where your best market is and then use your time wisely because you can always recover lost money, where as you can never recover lost time.
- I don't believe in putting girls on an attraction scale (1-10), I was just using it in this case to try to prove a point: keep your options open, the world has opportunities you may have not considered especially if your only focus is trying to improve your seduction skills to pick up the "time-consuming 10" at the local nightclub. Instead you can pick up "10s" much easier/quicker in other places without additional seduction skills and then the "time-consuming 10" at the local nightclub doesn't seem so special and time-worthy anymore.
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Yeah, I totally get it.
This is why I've always kept saying that there is no one magic bullet that will work for everyone. This assume attraction works for me and some others, but just like you wrote.... you need to find a way that works for you and keeps you from any self-doubt.
For you, it is focusing on the next step. For me it is "losing myself emotionally" in the pick up where I am on auto-pilot, meaning the last thing I want to do is think about what I should do next. The funny thing, is I barely remember the interactions the next day, it's like my logical mind just shut off and another part of me took over.
The thing that I find interesting is that we are essentially doing the same thing (or getting the same results) just by different means.
For example, you shift a woman's emotions by verbals (among other things) where as I would do what I call emotional mirroring (among other things). I'll explain in a bit more detail.
First of all, I hate doing pick up where I feel nothing for the girl, I need to feel some attraction or find something intriguing about her. If I don't have that, then I don't bother. For me, I need to feel and connect with her on an emotional and sexual level otherwise it's not worth the time.
So with that in mind, what is emotional mirroring?
Simply put, when I connect with my target via Soul Gazing or some other means, we empathize and mirror each other's emotions. I feel what she feels and she feels what I feel.
As we are connected, we end up in our own "time-distortion" bubble, then I shift towards sexual feelings which she then starts to mirror.
So yeah, I totally get where you are coming from. Different strokes for different folks but similar results