FR Bombshell Italian Train Girl

[Definitely_not_a_gymrat]

Hey guys, made another approach that I would like to share, have made a bunch more, but I felt like I can learn from this the most.

To start off, I was going to class using the train, when I saw a gorgeous girl standing right next to me, a good few inches taller than me as well.

I ask her if she knows when the train is coming, since I only arrived a week ago, so I can still play the foreigner card.

It’s a bit hard to understand everything, since she isn’t fluent in English, so I did my best.

She then tells me that she doesn’t know herself, which I tease her on, and we reveal where we’re from.

While we’re waiting for the train, there is conversation followed by pauses, which she is calling her friends, who she is meeting up with.

I guessed her to ask how old I am, and she guessed 24-25, even though I am 20. She was shocked, then I mentioned that it’s probably the beard, then asked her if she likes beards, which she said yes.

We get on the train, and I finally give my name, and we do a hand clasp.

We get more deep talking about career goals, and future plans, and our motivations for our career. During this, I ask for her instagram(idk if my number would really work in a foreign country, can’t call using it, and the different area codes), and say that she should come back to visit me.

She says why not, and proceeds to follow me on instagram. During this, we continue to deep dive each other a bit, and I also complimented her on her fashion. At no point did I complement her on her looks.

Eventually, the train gets off at her stop, and we first shake hands goodbye, then I go in for a hug, which she reciprocates enthusiastically.

All in all, I think it’s a solid approach, especially considering the slight language barrier, but can anyone let me know what I could have done better.

She hasn’t accepted my follow request yet, even though she already follows me, and it’s been a few hours. Although she said she was spending the entire day with her friends, since her birthday is tomorrow, so she be too preoccupied to follow me back.

 

[Skater]

First a disclaimer: I'm woefully inexperienced. I'm just interpreting through my own minimal experience. Hope you find it at least somewhat useful.

I guessed her to ask how old I am, and she guessed 24-25, even though I am 20. She was shocked, then I mentioned that it’s probably the beard, then asked her if she likes beards, which she said yes.

I always like making them guess my age like you did. They also frequently guess older (near 27), probably due to facial hair; I've noticed when I shave down to stubble they guess much more accurately (I'm 23).
I've never thought to ask if they like it! Thanks for the idea, I'll try it next time.

At no point did I compliment her on her looks.

One huge sticking point of mine is showing intent, or making the interaction Man to Woman rather than Friend to Friend.
Whether with an aesthetically-challenged girl where it wouldn't be honest, or a hot chick where I'm terrified, I just can't seem to do it.
Little things like teasing, handshake-introduction, asking if she likes beards (obliquely referring to your own), IG-closing with future projection, non-looks-based compliments, and hugging imply intent but are not bulletproof, especially if not delivered in a Man-to-Woman way (with e.g. sexualized EC, body language, tonality).
Maybe you did, but even when I do the above things I frequently don't subcommunicate the M2W frame. One-way ticket to the friendzone.

Was watching some Todd V material recently that resonated with me on this point.
He identifies showing Intent as a subset of the ways to communicate the desired M2W frame of an interaction.
As a beginner, he says, you are best served more or less explicitly setting the frame with more or less overt displays of Intent, like looks-based compliments.
To avoid falling completely into the chaser frame, you could temper with push-pull. Maybe something like "you're pretty cute... for an Italian."

He reasons that as a beginner it is more important to gain confidence expressing yourself including your true thoughts and desires, which simultaneously forces you to adopt better subcommunications to avoid bad-vibe rejections.

Then, as you move towards advanced, you can go more indirect and purely subcommunicate M2W to the point where she starts chasing.
He says as a beginner it's fine to be a little clunky and obvious, it will still get results and train you into smoothness.
If you're not a beginner, my apologies; thinking in terms of myself here.

especially considering the slight language barrier

One thing I've heard but not had opportunity to try yet is to compliment non-native speakers on their English.
Apparently, it's supposed to encourage them to talk more and feel appreciated for trying. Just an idea.

She hasn’t accepted my follow request yet, even though she already follows me, and it’s been a few hours. Although she said she was spending the entire day with her friends, since her birthday is tomorrow, so she be too preoccupied to follow me back.

Fire and forget. Couple hours is too little, in my (limited) experience. Take your mind off it by doing something else, best is approaching more >

Overall, based on my (beginner/KJ) read of the situation she was at least a little attracted to talk for so long.
If you managed to cement a M2W frame, you should have increased chances of a Day 2.
And, hopefully, you can even give her the best birthday present tomorrow

 

[Definitely_not_a_gymrat]

First a disclaimer: I'm woefully inexperienced. I'm just interpreting through my own minimal experience. Hope you find it at least somewhat useful.

Appreciate the response and help brother!

I always like making them guess my age like you did. They also frequently guess older (near 27), probably due to facial hair; I've noticed when I shave down to stubble they guess much more accurately (I'm 23).
I've never thought to ask if they like it! Thanks for the idea, I'll try it next time.

Yeah, I have a beard, and get guessed for much older, fun little game I love to play.

One huge sticking point of mine is showing intent, or making the interaction Man to Woman rather than Friend to Friend.
Whether with an aesthetically-challenged girl where it wouldn't be honest, or a hot chick where I'm terrified, I just can't seem to do it.
Little things like teasing, handshake-introduction, asking if she likes beards (obliquely referring to your own), IG-closing with future projection, non-looks-based compliments, and hugging imply intent but are not bulletproof, especially if not delivered in a Man-to-Woman way (with e.g. sexualized EC, body language, tonality).
Maybe you did, but even when I do the above things I frequently don't subcommunicate the M2W frame. One-way ticket to the friendzone.

I think I was able to do that, it didn’t seem like a friendzone interaction, also this was the first time I pulled out the hug at the end of my interaction.

Was watching some Todd V material recently that resonated with me on this point.
He identifies showing Intent as a subset of the ways to communicate the desired M2W frame of an interaction.
As a beginner, he says, you are best served more or less explicitly setting the frame with more or less overt displays of Intent, like looks-based compliments.
To avoid falling completely into the chaser frame, you could temper with push-pull. Maybe something like "you're pretty cute... for an Italian."

Maybe, although I didn’t complement her on looks, instead her fashion, I don’t think I needed to complement on looks. Also Italian women are some of the hottest in the world, might work when I go back to America though.

He reasons that as a beginner it is more important to gain confidence expressing yourself including your true thoughts and desires, which simultaneously forces you to adopt better subcommunications to avoid bad-vibe rejections.

Then, as you move towards advanced, you can go more indirect and purely subcommunicate M2W to the point where she starts chasing.
He says as a beginner it's fine to be a little clunky and obvious, it will still get results and train you into smoothness.
If you're not a beginner, my apologies; thinking in terms of myself here.

Relative beginner, but just trying to get as many reference points as possible, this was just one interaction that stood out to me. I’ve had plenty of interactions in the past week.

One thing I've heard but not had opportunity to try yet is to compliment non-native speakers on their English.
Apparently, it's supposed to encourage them to talk more and feel appreciated for trying. Just an idea.

I’ll try that next time!

Fire and forget. Couple hours is too little, in my (limited) experience. Take your mind off it by doing something else, best is approaching more >

Overall, based on my (beginner/KJ) read of the situation she was at least a little attracted to talk for so long.
If you managed to cement a M2W frame, you should have increased chances of a Day 2.
And, hopefully, you can even give her the best birthday present tomorrow

Well, she still hasn’t accepted my follow request, but she still follows me, which is very peculiar. Hopefully she accepts so I can give her the best birthday present.

 

[Definitely_not_a_gymrat]

UPDATE: As I finished typing this, she accepted my follow request. Funny how things work, will DM her in sometime, not right away.

 

[POB]

How old she is?

 

[Definitely_not_a_gymrat]

How old she is?

Just turned 23

 

[Definitely_not_a_gymrat]

UPDATE:

Texted her on instagram:

Me: Hi [girl] and happy birthday! How was your celebrations?

Her: Thank you
!

Me: Any travel plans?(because she’s a flight attendant)
I can also translate in Italian(said in Italian)

She hasn’t opened that message, and it’s been almost a day. She’s been posting on her story, I might try to re engage in a day or two, or even shoot her a quick call? Any advice?

 

[POB]

Just turned 23

Forget about social media responses...young women forget to answer all the time.
Also remember: it was her birthday, so she is probably just enjoyng the extra attention she is getting for this week.

I would wait a bit untill that rush passes and get back to her with a new text opener, then follow the usual sequence: banther>soft close>hard close

 

[Definitely_not_a_gymrat]

Forget about social media responses...young women forget to answer all the time.
Also remember: it was her birthday, so she is probably just enjoyng the extra attention she is getting for this week.

I would wait a bit untill that rush passes and get back to her with a new text opener, then follow the usual sequence: banther>soft close>hard close

Yeah, she is posting a lot about her birthday, maybe re engage her in 1-2 days. Maybe more?

 

[POB]

Yeah, she is posting a lot about her birthday, maybe re engage her in 1-2 days. Maybe more?

In this case, I would probably wait till monday so her schedule is more free.
Then you can also rush it a bit, based on her good vibes, to set up the date faster.

Edit: Usually it's not good to wait that much, but in this case she is clearly super busy and not checking her msgs that often.
So no matter what you send now, she'll mostly reply on monday anyway.
Alternatively you can send her a simple "Happy Birthday (touching glasses emoji)" and leave it like that till she answers.

 

[Definitely_not_a_gymrat]

In this case, I would probably wait till monday so her schedule is more free.
Then you can also rush it a bit, based on her good vibes, to set up the date faster.

Edit: Usually it's not good to wait that much, but in this case she is clearly super busy and not checking her msgs that often.
So no matter what you send now, she'll mostly reply on monday anyway.
Alternatively you can send her a simple "Happy Birthday (touching glasses emoji)" and leave it like that till she answers.

Tbh I was thinking Sunday around evening, a lot of downtime then. Already sent her a happy birthday text, not gonna send another one. Would it be ok to instagram call her on Sunday, or would that scare her you think?

 

[POB]

No calls, send her an opener monday morning and proceed from there

 

[Will_V]

Hey guys, made another approach that I would like to share, have made a bunch more, but I felt like I can learn from this the most.

To start off, I was going to class using the train, when I saw a gorgeous girl standing right next to me, a good few inches taller than me as well.

I ask her if she knows when the train is coming, since I only arrived a week ago, so I can still play the foreigner card.

It’s a bit hard to understand everything, since she isn’t fluent in English, so I did my best.

She then tells me that she doesn’t know herself, which I tease her on, and we reveal where we’re from.

While we’re waiting for the train, there is conversation followed by pauses, which she is calling her friends, who she is meeting up with.

I guessed her to ask how old I am, and she guessed 24-25, even though I am 20. She was shocked, then I mentioned that it’s probably the beard, then asked her if she likes beards, which she said yes.

We get on the train, and I finally give my name, and we do a hand clasp.

We get more deep talking about career goals, and future plans, and our motivations for our career. During this, I ask for her instagram(idk if my number would really work in a foreign country, can’t call using it, and the different area codes), and say that she should come back to visit me.

She says why not, and proceeds to follow me on instagram. During this, we continue to deep dive each other a bit, and I also complimented her on her fashion. At no point did I complement her on her looks.

Eventually, the train gets off at her stop, and we first shake hands goodbye, then I go in for a hug, which she reciprocates enthusiastically.

All in all, I think it’s a solid approach, especially considering the slight language barrier, but can anyone let me know what I could have done better.

She hasn’t accepted my follow request yet, even though she already follows me, and it’s been a few hours. Although she said she was spending the entire day with her friends, since her birthday is tomorrow, so she be too preoccupied to follow me back.

Solid interaction there. The main critique I have is that it's not clear you built up enough forward momentum in the interaction.

It sounds like the conversation was smooth and enjoyable, but did it leave enough of an impression that she's thinking about you afterward even with all her birthday events going on?

Especially in a context where first impressions are perhaps not so much in your favor (she's taller and older than you, she's a flight attendant and besides being hot, probably has a fair bit of social and worldly experience, she's having a birthday and getting lots of attention) you have to leave an impression that won't fade away quickly, and assert a certain level of psychological dominance.

One good way to do this is by qualifying her - making her prove to you with her words that she's XYZ, and then rewarding her by recognizing XYZ about her. This implicitly puts you in the position of authority where she's within your frame, and provides a reason for your interest that isn't all about sex. In interactions I've had that seemed ok but just didn't go anywhere, this is usually what I've identified as the missing piece.

There are other ways to leave an impression, for example by differentiating yourself and framing yourself as an adventurer, someone living in the moment, someone exceptionally self-assured and ambitious, someone in a period of transition, someone shirking the trappings of a typical life path, etc. When you do this, it leaves her wondering about you, turning over questions in her mind about who you are and what it might mean for her to be with you. The more questions she has about you, while feeling attracted and invested from having qualified herself to you, the better. Women love to figure out mysteries that are lying on top of them.

Maybe you did these things, but without seeing the conversation it's hard to tell.

Your texting though was definitely not great. First of all it's insta, and I'm not going to go into it too much as I've never used it, but my understanding is that:

1. It slots you in with all her other insta-fans and puts you in competition with them, and it's a lot easier to look good and be interesting on instagram than it is in person.
2. She can somewhat answer her questions about you by looking at all your pictures, which can lower her excitement levels.

Now, consider the context for your texting. You sent her a happy birthday and asked about her celebrations. That seems good right? The only problem is that's what literally EVERYONE else is doing to her right now. You just cast your text into a sea of similar texts that she's probably already gotten tired of responding to.

Instead you want to differentiate yourself:

- Refer to a joke or something that happened during the approach.
- Add a little tease, preferably something you already teased her about so she isn't going to take it the wrong way.
- Refer subtly to something you qualified her on.
etc

All these create a little bubble in her mind which there's just the two of you and no one else, because the context of your message is unique to either the dynamic between you two or the interaction you shared, and sets you apart from the masses.

Again, solid interaction but those are the things I get the impression could be improved. Hope this helps!

 

[empath]

I would have sent her something like this

Hey happy birthday (name/nickname you gave or can give based on your convo), hope you didn't get too drunk and did anything sloppy

If she is attracted to you sees you as anything her likely response would be I was good girl etc.

On Which you can tease her lightly
Then switch

Or

Hey XYZ saw your stories, i did't knew you were so wild when I saw you initially .... You looked like a total...

Leave the message half to build interigue, again if she is interested she will probe

You can replace the wild part with anything based on initial interaction on the stories she is posting


Basically idea is to send anything apart from a normal celebration which everone is sending her

 

[Definitely_not_a_gymrat]

Solid interaction there. The main critique I have is that it's not clear you built up enough forward momentum in the interaction.

It sounds like the conversation was smooth and enjoyable, but did it leave enough of an impression that she's thinking about you afterward even with all her birthday events going on?

Hm, something to consider, I’m still getting used to talking to girls in Rome who their first main language is Italian, so definitely room for improvement.

Especially in a context where first impressions are perhaps not so much in your favor (she's taller and older than you, she's a flight attendant and besides being hot, probably has a fair bit of social and worldly experience, she's having a birthday and getting lots of attention) you have to leave an impression that won't fade away quickly, and assert a certain level of psychological dominance.

One good way to do this is by qualifying her - making her prove to you with her words that she's XYZ, and then rewarding her by recognizing XYZ about her. This implicitly puts you in the position of authority where she's within your frame, and provides a reason for your interest that isn't all about sex. In interactions I've had that seemed ok but just didn't go anywhere, this is usually what I've identified as the missing piece.

I did qualify her a decent bit, on her traveling lifestyle, the fact that she sees good in every place, and I complemented her on her fashion. Did not give any validation to her looks though.

She also saw one of my instagram stories, so technically I’m still on her radar.

There are other ways to leave an impression, for example by differentiating yourself and framing yourself as an adventurer, someone living in the moment, someone exceptionally self-assured and ambitious, someone in a period of transition, someone shirking the trappings of a typical life path, etc. When you do this, it leaves her wondering about you, turning over questions in her mind about who you are and what it might mean for her to be with you. The more questions she has about you, while feeling attracted and invested from having qualified herself to you, the better. Women love to figure out mysteries that are lying on top of them.

I told her about me studying abroad, hopefully that did enough to frame me as an adventurer.

She actually sensed that I didn’t want to have a traditional career, that I wanted to do more with life, and we talked about that for a bit, and I tried relating it back to her.

Maybe you did these things, but without seeing the conversation it's hard to tell.

Your texting though was definitely not great. First of all it's insta, and I'm not going to go into it too much as I've never used it, but my understanding is that:

1. It slots you in with all her other insta-fans and puts you in competition with them, and it's a lot easier to look good and be interesting on instagram than it is in person.
2. She can somewhat answer her questions about you by looking at all your pictures, which can lower her excitement levels.

Only reason I started with going for instagram is because idk if the texts would go through in Italy by use of number.

Gonna start going for the number now, because it’s fairly obvious that Italians don’t care about their instagram to the same extent as Americans. I don’t think they check it that much, but again I’ve only been here for 2 weeks, so I’m still learning the culture myself.

Now, consider the context for your texting. You sent her a happy birthday and asked about her celebrations. That seems good right? The only problem is that's what literally EVERYONE else is doing to her right now. You just cast your text into a sea of similar texts that she's probably already gotten tired of responding to.

Instead you want to differentiate yourself:

- Refer to a joke or something that happened during the approach.
- Add a little tease, preferably something you already teased her about so she isn't going to take it the wrong way.
- Refer subtly to something you qualified her on.
etc

All these create a little bubble in her mind which there's just the two of you and no one else, because the context of your message is unique to either the dynamic between you two or the interaction you shared, and sets you apart from the masses.

Again, solid interaction but those are the things I get the impression could be improved. Hope this helps!

Gonna shoot her another text on Monday, keeping this in mind, and not thinking about her birthday. Im probably going to ask her when the next time she is coming to Rome is, or slide up on one of her instagram stories. She posts a lot of quotes from books, so I can relate to one of those stories and get a conversation going.

It’s a bit tougher to keep these Italian girls hooked, with the language barrier, but so worth it imo. Even though it’s harder than America, these women are drop dead gorgeous, and have raised my standards of what I want in a long term partner, even though I’m not in search of one at this moment.

 

[Definitely_not_a_gymrat]

I would have sent her something like this

Hey happy birthday (name/nickname you gave or can give based on your convo), hope you didn't get too drunk and did anything sloppy

If she is attracted to you sees you as anything her likely response would be I was good girl etc.

On Which you can tease her lightly
Then switch

Or

Hey XYZ saw your stories, i did't knew you were so wild when I saw you initially .... You looked like a total...

Leave the message half to build interigue, again if she is interested she will probe

You can replace the wild part with anything based on initial interaction on the stories she is posting


Basically idea is to send anything apart from a normal celebration which everone is sending her

Yeah, I’m gonna shoot her a text on Monday, either asking her when she’s coming back to Rome, or sliding up one one of her stories talking about a quote she posted. Which you think is the better option?

Also if the DM doesn’t work on Monday I’ll try an insta call as a very last resort, and if nothing works out there, I’m charging her to the game and moving on.

 

[empath]

Yeah, I’m gonna shoot her a text on Monday, either asking her when she’s coming back to Rome, or sliding up one one of her stories talking about a quote she posted. Which you think is the better option?

Also if the DM doesn’t work on Monday I’ll try an insta call as a very last resort, and if nothing works out there, I’m charging her to the game and moving on.

Both will work as long as they create an intrigue in her, some incentive in her to respond, and since your message are unseen/not replied, commenting on her story is better option. It is like you saw something on your feed and reacted to it.

Yeah, call will be the last resort.

Best thing will be to call to her asap after she reponds to your reply on her story because there is a good chance she will be free. Have a short a conversation on phone and make it memorable.

Apart from this, post few stories Yourself, if she react to those stories, then it means she is interested in you. Again its a cue for you to escalate.

 

[empath]

Hey guys, made another approach that I would like to share, have made a bunch more, but I felt like I can learn from this the most.

To start off, I was going to class using the train, when I saw a gorgeous girl standing right next to me, a good few inches taller than me as well.

I ask her if she knows when the train is coming, since I only arrived a week ago, so I can still play the foreigner card.

It’s a bit hard to understand everything, since she isn’t fluent in English, so I did my best.

She then tells me that she doesn’t know herself, which I tease her on, and we reveal where we’re from.

While we’re waiting for the train, there is conversation followed by pauses, which she is calling her friends, who she is meeting up with.

I guessed her to ask how old I am, and she guessed 24-25, even though I am 20. She was shocked, then I mentioned that it’s probably the beard, then asked her if she likes beards, which she said yes.

We get on the train, and I finally give my name, and we do a hand clasp.

We get more deep talking about career goals, and future plans, and our motivations for our career. During this, I ask for her instagram(idk if my number would really work in a foreign country, can’t call using it, and the different area codes), and say that she should come back to visit me.

She says why not, and proceeds to follow me on instagram. During this, we continue to deep dive each other a bit, and I also complimented her on her fashion. At no point did I complement her on her looks.

Eventually, the train gets off at her stop, and we first shake hands goodbye, then I go in for a hug, which she reciprocates enthusiastically.

All in all, I think it’s a solid approach, especially considering the slight language barrier, but can anyone let me know what I could have done better.

She hasn’t accepted my follow request yet, even though she already follows me, and it’s been a few hours. Although she said she was spending the entire day with her friends, since her birthday is tomorrow, so she be too preoccupied to follow me back.

About age, generally if you make her guess your age, you need to tell her whatever she tells you is a good guess.

If you tell her your real age and there is some difference, she might reject you on it by going into a logical mode, even though she was attracted to you on emotional/instinctual level.

After hooking up with her you can tell her your real age and then say I thought we will just hook up and then be non reactive to it. She will cook some reason she likes you enough and excuse your little lie.

 

[Definitely_not_a_gymrat]

Both will work as long as they create an intrigue in her, some incentive in her to respond, and since your message are unseen/not replied, commenting on her story is better option. It is like you saw something on your feed and reacted to it.

Yeah, call will be the last resort.

Best thing will be to call to her asap after she reponds to your reply on her story because there is a good chance she will be free. Have a short a conversation on phone and make it memorable.

Apart from this, post few stories Yourself, if she react to those stories, then it means she is interested in you. Again its a cue for you to escalate.

Ok she pretty must posts one of those story things everyday, so I can fs comment Monday, shoot her a DM.

While calling her asap is a good strategy in theory, chances are I will be busy when she responds. The first DM i shot, she replied in 8 minutes, then I sent another one hours later. It’s the one that hasn’t opened.

Maybe she likes my story, but tbh I’m gonna wait for that to happen.

 

[Definitely_not_a_gymrat]

About age, generally if you make her guess your age, you need to tell her whatever she tells you is a good guess.

If you tell her your real age and there is some difference, she might reject you on it by going into a logical mode, even though she was attracted to you on emotional/instinctual level.

After hooking up with her you can tell her your real age and then say I thought we will just hook up and then be non reactive to it. She will cook some reason she likes you enough and excuse your little lie.

Hmm, something to consider in the future. Don’t tell her my actual age. When I tell girls my actual age, when they’re 2-3 years older than me, they call me “a baby.”

Yesterday I ran into 2 girls who did this, I told them if they kept calling me that, I would call them mommy, so they quickly stopped.

I also tell these girls that I’m a student, so in their heads I should not be that old.