DoWhatWorks Lessons From Girls...

[DoWhatWorks]

My retention has got a lot better.

I went through a stage of sleeping with a ton of girls & barely keeping any... Looking back it was 2 main issues:

1. My follow up texting was bad

I'd get sloppy after laying a girl but (re-learnt) that until you've slept with her 3x you have to game her like it's the 1st time and be on-point unless she's super green anyway... But if you're sleeping with a bunch of new girls, they'll probably be a load of yellows in there too.

My current process is: Ice breaker text a day or 2 after we've slept together [was fun meeting you, liked your energy & have a great week] > ping her ~6-7 days later > see her buying temperature > banter > soft close > hard close.

I'm surprised how well it's been working so far. Especially as I get busy & some girls don't get pinged for 10 days between the 1st & 3rd lay.

The extra time between contact has also given girls a chance to hit me up, which sets the right frames from the start.

2. My sub-communications were "too keen"

Even though I had abundance my actions didn't match that. I'd be too eager to "guarantee" the next date and be scared to "lose momentum".

Funnily enough more recently I've retained girls with gaps of more than 4 weeks between seeing them... Why?

I want it but don't need it. That mindset has also made me better at calibrating to the girl as when I was in blind ME ME ME MINDSET
I missed signals and lost girls due to that. I.E persisting with a girl too soon when the best play was waiting a few days... or weeks.

Bonus --> After focusing so hard on retention I've come full circle and realised that it's nice but not needed lol

It's important to learn how to retain girls for sure. I've not had a dry spell in years because of that skill however I understand why lots of the best guys/naturals fall into ONS or girlfriend dynamic.

When you hit a certain level there's no incentive to keep a mid girl around. Better off spending that time getting a new girl because at least you'll enjoy the high of her being a new girl lol. Then when someone's interesting/you vibe with you keep them around & see where it goes.

Some girls also shouldn't be retained. You might not be compatible or your desires aren't aligned... I don't think it's an accident that even in my terrible retention phase the girls I most vibed with slept with me at least twice or are still sleeping with me now

So yeah few ramblings but hopefully helps someone out there

Onwards & Upwards

 

[DoWhatWorks]

Play to win, don't play to not lose

April is the first month this year where I'm actively hitting the field and not coasting off my rotation.

I met a girl at a bus stop on the way home after a night out... Approached indirect on whether this bus stop had bus xyz (I obviously knew it did lol). Was plausible as a lot of people were in my position as the night tube (subway) unexpectantly wasn't running.

Long story short we talk a while, get on the bus together then end up sharing an uber to my place because the "bus is taking too long"

I invite her over and she declines opting to walk home. I don't bother persisting (which I should have) but she's warm over text the next few days.

One of her voice notes she has huge undertones of wanting me to invite her home, instead of doing that I invite her for a walk with a plan of pulling her home during the date I.E playing it safe and she back tracks on meeting in the first place because she "wants to relax and go nowhere". I counter-propose with come to my place for wine and the damage is done she declines that too lol.

We're still taking but don't really expect it to go anywhere. Think I missed the boat but will treat it like an experiment nonetheless.

Was a good reminder to go for what I want and be consistent/congruent... But most importantly play to win.

Onwards & Upwards

Edit: For anyone lurking the reason this girl got cold feet is because my actions gave her the impression that I couldn’t read her signs which in turn is unattractive.

For me playing it safe when I knew better made me lose the potential lay but the broader lesson is reading signs & responding to them correctly

 

[fog]

My current process is: Ice breaker text a day or 2 after we've slept together [was fun meeting you, liked your energy & have a great week] > ping her ~6-7 days later > see her buying temperature > banter > soft close > hard close.

@DoWhatWorks, this is interesting how you are working within what i find to be a natural recontact period of 10-12 days

now, i have a quick question for clarity...because i am currently field testing your tech here...

when you are sending the post lay icebreaker text, are you sending, "was fun meeting you, liked your energy & have a great week" all in one go? or do you have a brief conversation with her about the funness/energy, then cut it off with have a great week?

 

[DoWhatWorks]

when you are sending the post lay icebreaker text, are you sending, "was fun meeting you, liked your energy & have a great week" all in one go? or do you have a brief conversation with her about the funness/energy, then cut it off with have a great week?

All in one go. That’s a personal (maybe sub-optimal) style because I don’t like texting.

Any text questions ask Skills or Topcat, best by far on here.

Also re-reading my comment I’d send an icebreaker text no more than 1 day after as quite a few girls may auto-reject by 2nd day.

By ending the convo, you test her compliance/buying temperature in a low effort way based of her response and you not continuing the conversation is a pattern interrupt or most guys who try have sex again asap.

natural recontact period of 10-12 days

I discovered it by accident after being very busy with a few new girls I laid at the time.

Worked because it was congruent. If in person I come across as a guy who easily gets laid & is busy. Me being a little too eager to pin them down in 5 days was the opposite from my chill easy going vibe & put girls off

 

[fog]

All in one go. That’s a personal (maybe sub-optimal) style because I don’t like texting.

Worked because it was congruent. If in person I come across as a guy who easily gets laid & is busy. Me being a little too eager to pin them down in 5 days was the opposite from my chill easy going vibe & put girls off

congruency in the context of personal style, i see

By ending the convo, you test her compliance/buying temperature in a low effort way based of her response and you not continuing the conversation is a pattern interrupt or most guys who try have sex again asap.

acknowledged, its a curvy throw off. i am now increasing in understanding. how much fun is this!

@DoWhatWorks, this is interesting how you are working within what i find to be a natural recontact period of 10-12 days

clarification from me due to indelicacies i am discovering in my lack of connection to time:

the period is up to ~12 days, not 10-12 days. so what you said

 

[Francis]

Interesting... After post sex icebreaker, you are waiting over a week to initiate the recontact?

I've always tried to convert fast, then settle into every 1.5 weeks on average, initiating 3 days after first sex.

So you're finding the extra low neediness yields better results overall compared to capitalizing on what Riccardus calls recency?

 

[DoWhatWorks]

You have to be willing to accept the good with the bad

I think this will be a longer post in and of itself but had recent scenarios I've experienced and seen friends experience which have brought this to the front of my mind.

• Had an FB get flaky & re-schedule. On the re-scheduled day she's meant to meet me at 5pm. She texts me at 7pm asking if we can still meet and that she got busy. She eventually get's an uber to mine.
  • --> I was genuinely willing to not text / speak to her again. Why? Because I want to see girls with a good frame or not at all
  • Big reason why a week after she invited me to her place before a bar and I said why not just the bar? She said because "I thought it would be fun to suck your dick first" Don't maintain that attraction without solid frame.

Unfortunately you don't get one without the other.

Want to fuck multiple girls? Accept that they'll probably fuck other guys eventually or try make you a BF before cutting their losses
Want to only date girls who treat you really well? Be prepared to say bye to tons of girls who don't make the cut
Want to get close to someone? You'll probably have to deal with more drama then if you were 100% free spirit

Hell want to get good with girls?? You'll get there realise it's overrated & half-wish you spent time somewhere else


It's also important to note each person's good and bad is personal not objective.

Some guys like a little more drama for closeness, others freedom for the fidelity trade-off and people's desires are subject to change too

Yeah just thinking out loud... I've really enjoyed looking at my old posts when this thread got re-surfaced.

As for me? I've got the itch again that FB's aren't scratching...

Onwards & Upwards x

P.S @fog? is one of the most underrated posters on here in my humble opinion.

Can weirdly relate to his streams of consciousness lol

P.P.S I'm starting to miss girls again... Hit some '23 goals early and going to blow off some serious steam in Jan '24

 

[DoWhatWorks]

Interesting... After post sex icebreaker, you are waiting over a week to initiate the recontact?

I've always tried to convert fast, then settle into every 1.5 weeks on average, initiating 3 days after first sex.

So you're finding the extra low neediness yields better results overall compared to capitalizing on what Riccardus calls recency?

My best suggestion is to field test and see what works best for you.

I don't purposely wait 7 days more just go with the flow & contact her when I'm free. When you're running rotations you've got a small window for new girls anyway so they have to be better than the existing batch or just fit in your schedule.

This works for me because I'm very chill so it's congruent. Worth mentioning if the girl hits me up earlier, we'll meet up if I can fit it in too.

Riccardus' personality will likely be congruent with his approach and that's why it works for him.

 

[Skills]

Interesting... After post sex icebreaker, you are waiting over a week to initiate the recontact?

I've always tried to convert fast, then settle into every 1.5 weeks on average, initiating 3 days after first sex.

So you're finding the extra low neediness yields better results overall compared to capitalizing on what Riccardus calls recency?

yes i totally don't agree with waiting a week, i actually think you should tell them to text you when they get home, works me well... If they were at your place, when they do thanks for coming that was hot with 3 fire emojis....

if you bang at their place, next day morning sun emoji, when she pings back you say thank you for last night that was hot with 3 fires emoji...

Waiting so long, kills momentum, may have some girls autoreject etc...

Back in the days i used to get busy or distracted and not ping, and girls would ping me after days.... but is not ideal tbh.... Better to keep momentum i see ricardus have the same idea recency is what i call in my posts momentum, seem ricardus came to similar conclusion....

I would say if we put 10 guys waiting a week vs 10 guys following up with momentum.... the odds are higher on momentum/recency guys i would put more than half vs waiting a week is too risky.....

Calls & Texts - The importance of Momentum when it comes to Texting

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www.skilledseducer.com

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www.skilledseducer.com

 

[DoWhatWorks]

would say if we put 10 guys waiting a week vs 10 guys following up with momentum.... the odds are higher on momentum/recency guys i would put more than half vs waiting a week is too risky.....

Haven’t field tested this but would agree

For people lurking I think an underrated part of game is acting in a way that’s consistent with your bigger seduction goals.

Skills is big on highest odds actions to get what he wants.

I’m big on the bare minimum actions to get what I want.

That’s why (I’ll often admit) I take a sub-optimal approach to certain things because it matches my low maintenance desire.

E.g Texting FB’s once every 1 - 3 weeks. Would I keep more girls if I upped my texting? Yes but I don’t want to, so I choose worse results (less girls staying) but more enjoyable results for me (the girls who do stay require minimum investment)

One day I may decide to go hard on texting to master it and then use it more similar to what I did with day 1 lays but until then keeping my system as is

 

[TomInHo]

On the topic of following up I don’t think there is a right or wrong way to do it. All comes down to the guy’s vibe and chemistry with the girl

I have maintained girls by reaching out as much as 3 weeks later. And other girls the very next day. It all came down to how the girl perceived me and what phase of life she was in

For example, if I meet a girl and she seems head over heels with me then I’m obviously not waiting an entire week to set up our next rendezvous

Or if I meet another girl that tells me she is deep in her hoe phase and views me only as a walking dildo then I can take my sweet ass time

So in a way, if you’re looking for purely casual and want to screen in girls that want the exact same with you, then it may be wise to wait a bit longer before reaching out

Momentum is relative

 

[Skills]

Haven’t field tested this but would agree

For people lurking I think an underrated part of game is acting in a way that’s consistent with your bigger seduction goals.

Skills is big on highest odds actions to get what he wants.

I’m big on the bare minimum actions to get what I want.

That’s why (I’ll often admit) I take a sub-optimal approach to certain things because it matches my low maintenance desire.

E.g Texting FB’s once every 1 - 3 weeks. Would I keep more girls if I upped my texting? Yes but I don’t want to, so I choose worse results (less girls staying) but more enjoyable results for me (the girls who do stay require minimum investment)

One day I may decide to go hard on texting to master it and then use it more similar to what I did with day 1 lays but until then keeping my system as is

I agree with this, but we are not talking about fb we are talking after first lay... some fb i don't even ping i let them ping me... There is not a lot of efford in saying "text me when you get home to see if you are ok" or saying that was hot with 3 fire emojis, there are also as i mention other things such as buyers remorse and fra etc... low chance of happening but it could happen...

 

[TomInHo]

I agree with this, but we are not talking about fb we are talking after first lay... some fb i don't even ping i let them ping me...

Nah G! Even after the first lay can retain girls by texting them weeks later.

It's relative and one size doesn't fit all

 

[Skills]

Nah G! Even after the first lay can retain girls by texting them weeks later.

It's relative and one size doesn't fit all

because you can get this results does not mean is optimal for guys to lay girls and wait a week to text women.... I laid most of my women without ever pinging after first lay, i would wait for them to ping me..... I would never advice this, due to being suboptimal...

 

[Skills]

i do want to make a point, that ties into the "1 week to contact retention"

Some guys lay a girl, sex is amazing for the dude, girl is super hot in their eyes they get super NEEDY, post sex, they start going into cherish mode (onitis), women start feeling this during the interaction post lay and in follow ups, they lose the lay....

^this guys would benefit from the wait a week contact type of dynamices to kill the neediness....

This can be interpret as causation correlation i waited a week...

^ some hot girls are used to do the post sex neediness dynamic and i can see the waiting the week working for those women... But again in general this can be avoided as you start getting laid more and controlling onitis...

 

[DoWhatWorks]

some hot girls are used to do the post sex neediness dynamic and i can see the waiting the week working for those women

To add more context this definitely contributed to my results. For lurkers - It's why I find the icebreaker text so important.

Depending on the level of investment in her response and your own schedule should determine how you approach it. A hot girl may want you to move quickly and a meh girl be uninterested.

In general I think the wait 123 before xyz as too simple. It's better to give "read the girl" based "guides" e.g. if she's enthusiastic and quickly replies with a paragraph, you can move quickly. If it's no reply or late 1 word answers, give her a bit longer before following up (if at all)

 

[Kaida]

Texting FB’s once every 1 - 3 weeks. Would I keep more girls if I upped my texting? Yes but I don’t want to, so I choose worse results (less girls staying) but more enjoyable results for me (the girls who do stay require minimum investment)

What if I want to retain a girl without fucking them for 3+ weeks? I have a few FBs here that I don't want to fuck too often (so I don't lose my momentum, I've already lost some) but one of them is a very attractive instagram model and I don't want to lose her.

I'm not doubting my ability to go get a new hotter girl, but sometimes you just want one in the backseat yk. What would you do in this situation? Should I text her flirtatiously every so often or what do you think

 

[DoWhatWorks]

What if I want to retain a girl without fucking them for 3+ weeks?

It’s doable but have to accept the trade-off she may not be as invested in you as a girl who sees you more often.

She may also completely fall of & you’ll have to be cool with that & not chase to increase the odds she comes back later.

(so I don't lose my momentum, I've already lost some)

To give you another perspective sleeping with multiple women helps my momentum because I never come from a place of 0.

Your vibe oozes “this guy gets laid” & you have mild curiosity to see if this new girl in front of you will make the cut.

but one of them is a very attractive instagram model and I don't want to lose her.

I sense very subtle oneitus here. Doesn’t matter if she’s miss universe lol

Do what you want (provided your process works) not what you assume she wants.

Now if you like a girl, it’s fine to give them more over time but it has to come from a place of abundance not lack to keep her around.

Have to genuinely want it as then it’s congruent and she’ll sense it/like you more. A guy going to a bar he finds fun with a girl he likes will look very different to a guy doing it just for sex.

sometimes you just want one in the backseat yk.

I feel you. I look at my rotation like a sports team though. There’ll be a natural cycle of people coming and going but the team comes before any one player. If you get a good signing keep them on but don’t spoil them otherwise they’ll start making unreasonable requests.

Success of the team IE you comes first.

 

[Kaida]

To give you another perspective sleeping with multiple women helps my momentum because I never come from a place of 0.

Your vibe oozes “this guy gets laid” & you have mild curiosity to see if this new girl in front of you will make the cut.

I think momentum has different flavors.

The momentum I had before was more like oozing sexuality since I was so horny and my killer instinct was on 10.

Now, like you said, its more chill, skeptical, and preselected. Both are good

I sense very subtle oneitus here. Doesn’t matter if she’s miss universe lol

Lowkeyy yeah. I’m sure I can get a new girl though. I just need more of her caliber in my rotation then I’m green.

There’ll be a natural cycle of people coming and going but the team comes before any one player. If you get a good signing keep them on but don’t spoil them otherwise they’ll start making unreasonable requests.

Exactly.

Right now I’m trying to work on my skills with getting women in the first place over my team management skills, so I’ll likely have to be rotating girls out more often then normal.

Do what you want (provided your process works) not what you assume she wants.

Now if you like a girl, it’s fine to give them more over time but it has to come from a place of abundance not lack to keep her around.

Have to genuinely want it as then it’s congruent and she’ll sense it/like you more. A guy going to a bar he finds fun with a girl he likes will look very different to a guy doing it just for sex.

Bars

 

[DoWhatWorks]

You can make a little momentum from nothing, big momentum from a little and a lay from not much

2024 has been one of my most intentionally lowest game period in years (on 7 new & 2 loose FB's at the time of this)

I'm forcing myself to be as efficient as possible on the road to absolute abundance and these are my rambled thoughts.

Spoiler: What it takes to lay 10+ girls a year from daygame

A friend of mine has convinced me to start doing DG sessions with him and I'm sold.

I've had a 180 degree turn on this. I used to swear by "go-about-your-day daygame" and although it definitely works,

I don't know anyone who does 10+ lays a year from daygame without being intentional and dedicating blocks of time to it.

Both my natural friends and community guys alike. When you try and get advice on how to get volume doing "go-about-your-day daygame" people become very vague/evasive which suggests to me, people aren't doing it. *shrugs*

My latest conclusion is do casual daygame if:

You don't care about volume e.g. <10 lays a year and/or you are supplementing with other game avenues

If you want to get > 10 daygame lays a year, you'll need to dedicate hours a week to it. Sounds like common sense but haven't found many people just being upfront and honest about this.

Lastly the latest metrics I'm seeing is approach to number ratios are now 1/4 when in the past they were 1/3. In London at least, more people are in relationships.

Spoiler: Daygame + Nightgame is my new favourite combo

I got a recent nightgame lay. Didn't bother writing it up because it's a copy and paste of my guide here. It came from my friend challenging my thinking and saying "hey, if you already spend hours talking on the phone, scrolling the web or insausage fest environments, why don't you spend that time, exercising with a friend (with a walk) speaking in person & approaching girls in the process?" I had no logical counter-argument and I'm experimenting with late afternoon day game sessions (4-7pm) followed by early evening sessions (7pm-12pm). It's only 8 hours in total and done once a week, has the potential to give you a great romantic life. Early days but I'll keep this thread posted as so far... It's working for me.

Spoiler: [B]Game Combining led to a recent 1/11 cold approach to lay ratio[/B]

I did a daygame session on Saturday that objectively went horribly (6 approaches and 0 numbers) however in the nightgame venue I made 5 approaches and got 1 lay lol. Why? I already built social momentum so my daygame session wasn't wasted. By the time I was in the bar I was warmed up and in a good flow. When I reflected, I also realised that a lot of my previous night game lays came after a day or early evening of me making approaches even before I entered the venue. Not rocket science but it's important to reflect on these things then consistently do what works to get efficient and consistent results. As a side note online has been horrifically bad for me. Might be seasonal but have gotten far better ROI and results from offline vs online this summer.

Outfits - I like to consider myself reasonable (well as reasonable as a seducer can be lol). I've openly critiqued people's obsession with clothes but I'm going to give credit to Velasco, Skills et al. I made some adjustments to how I dress to be more in trend and the reception was substantially better & I think contributed to my recent lay. Might be placebo, only time will tell but have to give credit where it's due, those guys were early... Only person who said it even before them was topcat.

Anyway there's my ramblings, onwards and upwards x