Drugs: do you HAVE to use them in order to be attractive?

[Renegade]

you shouldn’t use drugs because you think it makes you look cool.

But most girls do drugs because they want to fit in. Maybe most people, not just girls. Definitely with alcohol at first.

And I do want to be cool and fit in. I'm quite young still and I see the benefits of fitting in with the cool crowds.

And yes I could fit in based on my character traits, but I don't have those. I'm not carefree AT ALL. I'm actually very intense, judgey and debate-like all the time. Nothing leaves me chill. I want to change everything I see.

So I was thinking that smoking weed could make my whole perosnality change to a more attractive one? Because I won't care as much anymore?

 

[Renegade]

We seem to seek out that which we are used to.

Very good point. I'm talking about this a lot in therapy and I think the reason I'm attracted to drug users is actually this:

They embody the character traits that i had to suppress in myself.

We want to be around people that have what we want. And since I'm too scared of everything, too respeting of authority, and not carefree at all, I feel the need to be around people who are opposites of that.

I REALLY want to become carefree, chill, etc.

But I've been through so much that I'm on high alert 24/7, never chill, never carefree.

ANd I was thinking that weed could help me change this, so that I can finally fit in (because noone likes a guy that's on high alert 24/7, always wants to debate, judges people and never chills out).

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

But I find drugs users cool. They embody the traits that I wish I had - no fear of losing control, not caring about what authorities think, being cool, etc.

The reason I'm trying to hang out with stoner girls is because I really want to be like them, i just don't have the courage.

This is the unattractive part.

Not the fact that you don't do drugs. But the fact that it scares you.

 

[Renegade]

This is the unattractive part.

Not the fact that you don't do drugs. But the fact that it scares you.

How is being scared of possibly lethal substances unattractive? Donesn't it mean that I'll be a healthier partner if I don¨t do drugs?

I really don't understnad it, aren't women attracted to signs of good health? Muscles, clear skin, posture...

Why would they at the ame time be attracted to a lack of fear, a thing that could literally kill us?

I'm not losing my life just to attract some girls bro...

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

who told you that weed is deadly?

when I first saw this thread I thought you were trolling... hmmm I think so.

 

[Renegade]

when I first saw this thread I thought you were trolling... hmmm I think so.

I'm not trolling, but people often think that when I post my real thoughts here or on reddit. Which is... not nice.

Weed can be deadly for mentally unstable people who are already close to doing dangerous things. I have severe personality disorders due to the trauma from having drug-addicted, homeless and violent parents. I'm not stable and just seeing someone smoke weed makes me almost able to attack them.

So since for me weed could very well be deadly, I'm surely not the only one like that on earth.

And don't worry I'm in therapy and other support places.

 

[Definitely_not_a_gymrat]

But most girls do drugs because they want to fit in. Maybe most people, not just girls. Definitely with alcohol at first.

And I do want to be cool and fit in. I'm quite young still and I see the benefits of fitting in with the cool crowds.

I see your points with girls wanting to fit in, but I don’t think they are looking to choose someone who “tries to fit in and conform.” Girls are way more worried about social status and reputation, so they conform.

They want a guy confident enough to stand on his own two feet, however.

And yes I could fit in based on my character traits, but I don't have those. I'm not carefree AT ALL. I'm actually very intense, judgey and debate-like all the time. Nothing leaves me chill. I want to change everything I see.

Probably gotta work on that more than anything. Imo the drugs seem like an escape, and this is the real problem to fix.

Gonna take some work but you can totally mold your personality type.

A couple years ago, I was pretty introverted and awkward. Now I get told that I’m pretty extroverted, but a major reason I changed that was so I could talk to women, so I could see a pretty girl and not wonder “what if.”

So I was thinking that smoking weed could make my whole perosnality change to a more attractive one? Because I won't care as much anymore?

Tbh I don’t think it’ll work, it seems like you want to use weed as an excuse to not work on your inner game, and let that carry you.

Could get you some results, but in the long run, it’s really not worth it.

If you genuinely are curious about trying for drugs, then go for it, but don’t do it to escape from your problems or just to fit in.

 

[Renegade]

Now I get told that I’m pretty extroverted

I'm getting that from people nowadays too (after like 3 years of daily daygame..). But extroverted unfortunately doesn't mean cool, edgy or anything like that. Plenty introverted guys who simply aren't afraid to try things, to break the rules... get a lot of girls. (btw I'm talking about the 18-21 age group)

it seems like you want to use weed as an excuse to not work on your inner game

Nono, I'm working on my inner game. Literally since I found out about PUA when I was 14, I've been trying to become a more attractive version of myself. Now the past 3 years with the help of therapy and meditation.

I want to use weed as a tool to get rid of fear. To finally break some rules (I'm a huge rule follower). To finally let go of the need to control everything. And to maybe try and relax a little bit.

But the main benefit would be fitting in, having something in common with the cool stoner crowd (which is 80% of European youth). That would come from the simple fact that I smoke, but also from my new-found personality.

I don't know any other way of losing fear than tackling it head on.

Do you have some smarter (I mean that seriously) ideas to get rid of the fear of drugs, other than acting against it?

 

[Definitely_not_a_gymrat]

I'm getting that from people nowadays too (after like 3 years of daily daygame..). But extroverted unfortunately doesn't mean cool, edgy or anything like that. Plenty introverted guys who simply aren't afraid to try things, to break the rules... get a lot of girls. (btw I'm talking about the 18-21 age group)

I’m 20 years old, so I fall into that age group. Tbh part of me being extroverted means breaking social norms, chatting up random people, cold approach. Technically not rules but things the average person doesn’t understand. If you do those things, it gives you a bit of an edge over most people.

There may be some introverted guys like that, but trust me it’s way easier as an extrovert. In high school I would wait to see if a girl from my social circle liked me(it never happened).

Nono, I'm working on my inner game. Literally since I found out about PUA when I was 14, I've been trying to become a more attractive version of myself. Now the past 3 years with the help of therapy and meditation.

I want to use weed as a tool to get rid of fear. To finally break some rules (I'm a huge rule follower). To finally let go of the need to control everything. And to maybe try and relax a little bit.

But the main benefit would be fitting in, having something in common with the cool stoner crowd (which is 80% of European youth). That would come from the simple fact that I smoke, but also from my new-found personality.

I don't know any other way of losing fear than tackling it head on.

Do you have some smarter (I mean that seriously) ideas to get rid of the fear of drugs, other than acting against it?

I can’t help you with getting rid of the fear of drugs that well, I don’t do them myself, and tbh I know me using drugs will lead to bad things for me, that combined with a lack of curiosity for them just makes me avoid them.

Tbh when people go out for a smoke, I join them, I just don’t smoke and it’s all the same conversation anyways, except they’re smoking and ur not.

One suggestion I would have is to start small and gradually increase the amount you do - progressive overload - if ur serious about this.

Personally, I recommend you don’t do drugs but I can’t stop you.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Alright, I'll assume you're not trolling.

If you read up on evolutionary biology, you will find there's a scientific reason why young men do reckless behaviors... such as driving fast, drinking too much, taking drugs. And it's the same reason why women are attracted to these behaviors.

These are so-called "fitness indicators" (high value and hence attractive). These behaviors communicate: "I have great genes. I'm very healthy and fit. In fact my genes are so great and I'm so fit and healthy that I can do all this reckless stuff unscathed."

If you have personality disorders and you're mentally unstable, then you're NOT that fit and healthy. That's a DLV. Hence your fear of taking drugs speaks to that and why it's unattractive.

It communicates the opposite of the above. It says: "I'm weak, I'm not healthy, I have personality disorders and an unstable mind, I come from a messed up family, so I can't risk taking drugs! It scares me. I'm afraid." Low value.

So again, as I already said above in my first post: "the fear of the drugs is the reason why it's unattractive." Because of what it communicates.

So, does that mean you should conquer your fear and do drugs anyway? No, I would definitely stay away from that stuff. But you need to frame it as a strength and not a weakness, as others have already said in this thread.

Make fun of these losers who go nowhere with their lives. (Make sure you're not sitting in a glasshouse while you're throwing stones of course... make sure you're not one of those people who go nowhere).

I'd also date girls who aren't stoners.

 

[Renegade]

It communicates the opposite of the above. It says: "I'm weak, I'm not healthy, I have personality disorders and an unstable mind, I come from a messed up family, so I can't risk taking drugs! It scares me. I'm afraid." Low value.

Okay, so as a low value person...

Make fun of these losers who go nowhere with their lives.

...how can I make fun on the people that I in fact look up to?

They are going way further with their drug usage than me: it makes them cool, gives them excuses to be social, more friends, partners, etc.

While I'm spending years on trying to heal from everything.

I would say that being able to do drugs is a privilege, because only men mentally stable enough can do them and reap the benefits of looking fearless. It's unfair.

But I am who I am. Trauma made me scared and unstable, but I'm doing everything I can to become attractive. I just don't know what direction to take here. If not drugs, them what is a safe way to become fearless?

After everything I've been through, the last thing I want is to risk my life.

Also, it's not nice to call me low value. I didn't cause my problems and In doing everything to solve them. That's more of a high value trait, I would say.

We can't discriminate based on things we didn't choose.

 

[Atlas IV]

Alright, I'll assume you're not trolling.

If you read up on evolutionary biology, you will find there's a scientific reason why young men do reckless behaviors... such as driving fast, drinking too much, taking drugs. And it's the same reason why women are attracted to these behaviors.

These are so-called "fitness indicators" (high value and hence attractive). These behaviors communicate: "I have great genes. I'm very healthy and fit. In fact my genes are so great and I'm so fit and healthy that I can do all this reckless stuff unscathed."

If you have personality disorders and you're mentally unstable, then you're NOT that fit and healthy. That's a DLV. Hence your fear of taking drugs speaks to that and why it's unattractive.

It communicates the opposite of the above. It says: "I'm weak, I'm not healthy, I have personality disorders and an unstable mind, I come from a messed up family, so I can't risk taking drugs! It scares me. I'm afraid." Low value.

So again, as I already said above in my first post: "the fear of the drugs is the reason why it's unattractive." Because of what it communicates.

So, does that mean you should conquer your fear and do drugs anyway? No, I would definitely stay away from that stuff. But you need to frame it as a strength and not a weakness, as others have already said in this thread.

Make fun of these losers who go nowhere with their lives. (Make sure you're not sitting in a glasshouse while you're throwing stones of course... make sure you're not one of those people who go nowhere).

I'd also date girls who aren't stoners.

Karea is back in town, hell yeah! Glad to see you again brother.

But I am who I am. Trauma made me scared and unstable

Also, it's not nice to call me low value. I didn't cause my problems and In doing everything to solve them. That's more of a high value trait, I would say.

Man, the reason you're struggling to attract girls is not because you don't do drugs. You need to throw out this victim mentality. It's extremely unattractive. No woman wants to date a man who sees himself as "scared and unstable".

 

[Renegade]

Man, the reason you're struggling to attract girls is not because you don't do drugs. You need to throw out this victim mentality. It's extremely unattractive. No woman wants to date a man who sees himself as "scared and unstable".

Dude but it's literally the truth about who I am right now. It's not even victim mindset because I'm actively working on healing: therapy twice a week, support groups, books, meditation...

Is there any problem with saying that I went through horrible things and as a result I now struggle? Because that's the truth!

I'm just doing what I have to do to become healthy. What more do I have to do? Therapy 4 times a week or what?

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Okay, so as a low value person...

Don't take it personally, you're just low value along that dimension. Find your strengths and play to them. Most PUAs have to do that. I'm not very good looking, but I'm a professional musician. "Oh but then you have high value". Sure, but I wasn't born with it. I chose to become a pro at music precisely because women weren't falling in my lap easily like they do for hot guys.

You've identified your weaknesses, now identify your strengths that you currently have, as well as other attractive traits you can develop, and focus on that. Then play to that, convey it in your game.

...how can I make fun on the people that I in fact look up to?

But you don't look up to them. You said in your OP that you think this stuff is stupid, it ruins health, you said it's dumb, it's running away from problems instead of tackling them. You also have personal experience with addicts and homelessness.

Sure, in a way you admire the sociability, the courage, the badboy image. But the truth is you do look down on the whole thing and find it beneath you, retarded and disgusting. And you're right about that, objectively. Drugs as reality escape really are a loser activity.

Hey cannabis and psychedelics in an intentional context is one thing. I'm all for that. But using them to run from problems is another altogether, it's dumb and even lower value than being scared of them. Addiction even more so.

While I'm spending years on trying to heal from everything.

We all have our cross to bear. I do, you do, everyone who posted in this thread does, every person in the world does. Nobody has it easy. Welcome to Earth.

I would say that being able to do drugs is a privilege, because only men mentally stable enough can do them and reap the benefits of looking fearless. It's unfair.

You could also look at it the opposite way. Since you have to stay away from drugs, you are avoiding one of life's great pitfalls. Maybe some of these guys can do drugs and get laid and then still keep their lives on track. Many won't. It will ruin many of them.

But I am who I am. Trauma made me scared and unstable

Something else - many of the people who do a lot of recreational drugs, and especially to the point of addiction, are also traumatized and scared. It's not only reality escape, it's to numb pain and traumas. Don't be too envious of them, they all have chickens that will come home to roost some day.

but I'm doing everything I can to become attractive.

Yeah I'm not worried about you. You'll get there with that mindset.

I just don't know what direction to take here. If not drugs, them what is a safe way to become fearless?

How about cold approach? That'll make you fearless.

Also, it's not nice to call me low value.

Okay, I call myself low value too then you don't have to feel so sad. I'm probably a 6, based on how my pictures get rated and based on how girls respond to me on first visual impression without running game and social proof. Also my sister is like a 6 so that's probably realistic that I'd be a 6 too. Welcome to the club. Game is to overcome value obstacles.

I didn't cause my problems and In doing everything to solve them. That's more of a high value trait, I would say.

Yeah I agree. That IS a high value trait. Just being mentally too unstable to do drugs is a low value trait. So, focus on the areas where you're high value. Develop them, and feature them in your game. Like I said I'm a 6 but I have a brilliant mind, and that brilliant mind can play music at a professional level, and girls cream themselves.

We can't discriminate based on things we didn't choose.

Most importantly and I can tell you realize this already, you need to straighten yourself out, and you're already working on that, so that's great. I would HIGHLY recommend you add a spiritual dimension to this pursuit and not only a psychological one. Increase your meditation to 40 minutes a day or even more for a year. It'll sort out your mind.

Hope that helps, if you're getting an antagonistic vibe from people it's because the way you're looking at these things is a bit off. For example, your thread title "do you have to use drugs to be attractive", counter question: Do you think every man who has a 3-figure notch count does drugs?

You'll be alright mate. Sounds like you're on a pretty good track, so just keep going. Increase the meditation (because your mind is a bit messy), stop trying to get druggie girls if that's not your thing, focus on the strengths you have and develop them, add additional attractive qualities you can develop, and keep trucking on that personal growth path.

Like I said, I'm not worried about you. Keep going and you'll get there.

 

[ChrisVirtue]

I don't have a strong frame though. I'm not against drugsor alcohol. I mean, on the sruface I am, but in reality I resent the users because I wish I could be like them. Carefree, cool, living on the edge... you get it.

So my frame right now is "I wish I could smoke weed like you, please hang out with me so I can feel cool in your presence".

Well if you don't have a strong frame... then now you know exactly what to work on !

In addition, if you don't have a strong frame here, it's unlikely you do in other contexts as well... which is crucial to fix because frame control is a major part of game.

Do you have any ideas about how to strengthen your frame ?

 

[Skills]

you can be attractive with no drugs, actually drugs will make you unattractive to a majority of women.... I will confess that you MAY lose some opportunities getting laid in some pulls, but the amount is soooooo insignificant that meh! I can count 3 girls opportunities that i lost due to me not doing drugs, and 1 was me bailing (so i did not even tried, i bailed)..... so i am down to maybe 2.... but this is out thousand of girls... I will argue you will lose more girls by doing drugs than by not doing drugs....


So far i am loving @Will_V line.... i used to say "i don't do_______ fill in the blank, but i don't mind at all if you do, then i say i am driving (alcohol) and for drugs (i teach martial arts).... So i can help her save face and don't come across judgments...

Some guys that do drugs and alcohol are attractive due to FREEDOM, and CONFIDENCE, that they get under influence.... I have been able to replicate both easily without drugs... Most girls and people think i am on drugs at the club... and i am constantly ask if i can get drugs...

So learn true confidence and true self generated freedom, this comes with getting rid of aa and a lot of reps...

 

[Renegade]

So far i am loving @Will_V line.... i used to say "i don't do_______ fill in the blank, but i don't mind at all if you do, then i say i am driving (alcohol) and for drugs (i teach martial arts).... So i can help her save face and don't come across judgments...

What is so bad about being judgemental though? I'm very judgemental because I believe that there are good and bad ways to live life. And we're trying to improve the world here, so if I see someone doing something that's objectively wrong, it should be normal to judge or even report them.

So learn true confidence and true self generated freedom, this comes with getting rid of aa and a lot of reps...

I hate this advice. Why? I've done well over 3000 approaches now and I'm still extremely unconfident and not free at all. I've done everything, single approaches, groups, families, girls with boyfriends, singing in the subway, dancing on the street..

And I'm still anxious AF. So honestly I can tell you that it doesn't work.


Also about the drugs thing, weed is a lot like alcohol here in Europe. So if you decline weed for example, you will never become a part of the inner circle. The bravery of trying is your "ticket" to the inner circles and best parties. I'd have to compensate with personality A LOT, while stoners just exist and get invited everywhere with no effort.

 

[Dragonetti]

What a ridiculous question, OP. Of course you don't need to do drugs. In fact, you can be cooler by being independent of peer pressure and doing your own thing.

Needing to do drugs to fit in when you don't actually want to do them is one of the least attractive quirks I can think of, actually

 

[Renegade]

Do you have any ideas about how to strengthen your frame ?

No and honestly I don't think it's good to have a strong frame in life. I'm always trying to learn, always taking other's views and seeing how I like them. I'm a student, not an authority in life. We all are, and so we dont have a right to be confident. Yes, even you.

I'm not confident or strong about anything because I know that I don't know anything. I'm a nobody. So I won't go all delusional and think that my view/frame is a good one. Everyone's frame is equal, and ideal state of being is to not have any frame at all.

 

[Renegade]

What a ridiculous question, OP. Of course you don't need to do drugs. In fact, you can be cooler by being independent of peer pressure and doing your own thing.

Needing to do drugs to fit in when you don't actually want to do them is one of the least attractive quirks I can think of, actually

So how can I turn my strong need to fit in (which is a need that EVERY human has) into something attractive?

Right now I'm willing to ruin my health to fit in. Which I agree is not attractive but at least it's authentic. I'm desperate and I'm not ashamed about that.

How would you approach this? I wont get rid of the need to fit in, because that's a natural need. We are social animals and being alone 24/7 is not healthy.