Game style for ugly guys

[climbingup]

For guys who are ethnic, look at a celebrity with same skin tone. Certain colours work best on different skin tones, gym and posture are universal though

 

[climbingup]

Become better looking.

Workout and get to a lean bodyfat with the goal of also having some muscle mass. You don’t need to be huge, think Fight Club Brad Pitt. The low body fat will make your face look better and more masculine.

Next fox anything that you think makes you ugly. Bad teeth? Bad skin? Fix that.

Get a good hairstyle (or wear a cool hat) and facial hair that both frames your face well. Don’t underestimate the effect this step can have.

Stand up straight and have good posture.

Dress very well. This doesn’t mean you have to wear a suit but dress stylish and go for an attractive stereotype. Make sure the colors go with your skin tone and fit very well.

This will all take some effort but it’s worth it!

You don’t have to be a male 10 to lay hot women but you do need to be cute enough that you don’t elicit cognitive dissonance within their mind. It’s like a roller coaster, there is a height threshold for you to ride. With women there is a looks threshold and while it’s different with all women, it’s probably not as high as you might think.

Using what I said above almost any guy can become at least “cute.” From there it’s all about your effort in meeting women and how good your “game” is.

Some guys can go to the gym, dress well, dentist but their face will always look a bit funny. Plus what about people that aren't white, the bar for good looking is even higher

 

[Warped Mindless]

Some guys can go to the gym, dress well, dentist but their face will always look a bit funny. Plus what about people that aren't white, the bar for good looking is even higher

Such a stupid argument.

One, so what if you can’t be a 10… don’t try? Do what you can and I bet that you will be at least cute. That’s good enough for 99% of women.

Two, women care less about race than most guys believe. Get over it. You can’t change it so why worry about it? Go meet some women.

 

[Gunwitch]

Such a stupid argument.

One, so what if you can’t be a 10… don’t try? Do what you can and I bet that you will be at least cute. That’s good enough for 99% of women.

Two, women care less about race than most guys believe. Get over it. You can’t change it so why worry about it? Go meet some women.

Plus cat out of the bag....

I've dated chicks, rural southern Oregon man, who outright say they'd never date an "n word", trust me i'm cleaning it up nice language wise there. So any improvement of looks with women who care much about race is pretty moot. The rest don't care at all. Hell i'm half mexican and look totally white, pale with grey eyes and shit, and i've dated women who reveal to me that they don't like mexicans. Unless you can change your skin color, you ain't slipping by any "hate wall" so there is no bar based on race, merely a "possible just like anyone else" or "HARD no" reality.

Also on the "no matter what goofy looking". Just be as lean as possible, it's pretty hard as a man to be hard pass ugly in the face with a lean face. All men are pretty much weird looking by definition.

Gun

 

[Warped Mindless]

Plus cat out of the bag....

I've dated chicks, rural southern Oregon man, who outright say they'd never date an "n word", trust me i'm cleaning it up nice language wise there. So any improvement of looks with women who care much about race is pretty moot. The rest don't care at all. Hell i'm half mexican and look totally white, pale with grey eyes and shit, and i've dated women who reveal to me that they don't like mexicans. Unless you can change your skin color, you ain't slipping by any "hate wall" so there is no bar based on race, merely a "possible just like anyone else" or "HARD no" reality.

Also on the "no matter what goofy looking". Just be as lean as possible, it's pretty hard as a man to be hard pass ugly in the face with a lean face. All men are pretty much weird looking by definition.

Gun

Yep, guys who complain about not being able to be good looking almost always have fat to lose. They don’t understand how being lean effects your face. Ive seen average to ugly dudes become damn handsome when they got down to a low body fat.

Also, I have Carmel colored skin. I get asked ALL THE TIME what race I am (im white but naturally tanned. Think a tanned Taylor Lauther) and I can’t think of a single time I’ve been rejected by a woman since I started in 2006 (yes, I’ve been doing this for a long time) because of my skin color. I just let women think I’m whatever they want. Mexican, Italian, middle eastern, Native American, philiphino… and they still fuck me.

People… stop letting your race define your results with women! You can’t change it but you can break negative stereotypes associated with it. Go prove the girls wrong.

 

[Gunwitch]

Yep, guys who complain about not being able to be good looking almost always have fat to lose. They don’t understand how being lean effects your face. Ive seen average to ugly dudes become damn handsome when they got down to a low body fat.

Also, I have Carmel colored skin. I get asked ALL THE TIME what race I am (im white but naturally tanned. Think a tanned Taylor Lauther) and I can’t think of a single time I’ve been rejected by a woman since I started in 2006 (yes, I’ve been doing this for a long time) because of my skin color. I just let women think I’m whatever they want. Mexican, Italian, middle eastern, Native American, philiphino… and they still fuck me.

People… stop letting your race define your results with women! You can’t change it but you can break negative stereotypes associated with it. Go prove the girls wrong.

Yeah you can't even get any "data" anyway unless dating and look totally different race. Chicks don't go "no I only date white men" to your face, so guys are just assuming a rejection was based on it. She might be the most liberal, racially tolerant person on earth and you look fine to her, you're just plain fuckin weird lol.


Gun

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

I believe @Karea Ricardus D. Himself said he's a average looking guy,but he's still banged hot women. What he didn't have in looks he made up for in charm ,charisma and game. Maybe has a insight to share. He is 6'1 so that probably helps

Yeah I'm average looking. Friends have called me strange looking. I'm invisible... never got looks from girls or having them flirt with me. I mean it happens very rarely with girls I don't want, mediocre looking girls or fat girls sometimes start flirting. But even that is rare. Old ladies usually love me haa. But I had to do all with charisma and game.

Charisma and game work to build attraction (or compliance... a semantic issue we have to sort out some day), not just looks. But it takes about 25 minutes to really hook a girl in where she's genuinely interested and it can take a few hours until she's really into the guy. So we need to find situations where we have time with a girl. Street stop very hit and miss. Loud clubs very hard. But girls do get very into it with time.

This is from the top level evolutionary psychologist Geoffrey Miller, one of my favorite quotes about game:

What women are looking for, in short term mating, is not just bad boys. they're looking also for guys who are really witty and intellectually exciting, or musically or artistically talented, or who really excel at lots of mental displays, even that might be completely useless and irrelevant in an LTR but that are still really impressive

That's average-looking-guy game. It's way different than for good looking guys who girls respond to with interest in the first 1-2 minutes... downhill battle obviously. Just escalate. She will even compensate for the guy's mistakes and even drive the ball forward when he doesn't. I experienced some of that in Asia where I was considered a hot guy I guess.

Max your looks regardless. When I was at 9% bodyfat, my face did look better... more cut and masculine. Fashion helps too. But our best tools are social proof and vibe to compensate for looks. The X-Factor improved it for me a lot, which is why I consider it my biggest breakthrough in game (in my signature).

When I had X-Factor going, I even flipped red-light girls. I would approach, they would give massively negative body language and a few minutes later I had them interested and then got the lay. When you can flip red lights, then yellow light girls are doable quite consistently. Ideally come in with an indirect approach and don't trigger a decision on her part early on and then ratchet it up on a gradient.

Regarding Torero yeah he got caught using actresses. I thought he was a poser at first but after listening to his podcast archive, all he talks about matches my experience. I think he was legit despite faking a marketing video once. And these look real to me:

 

[Warped Mindless]

Regarding being ugly….
Dress well, get to a low body fat, and if your face is still ugly you can get jaw fillers which will, in many cases, massively improve your looks for very little money and almost no time at all.

I know some guys are really against “artificial” enhancements but looking attractive really does put many things in life on easy mode.

Just something to consider.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Follow up… as for “ugly dating coaches” I can’t think of any LEGIT dating coaches who are ugly. Many of them are just average looking but none that come to mind are universally ugly.

Yeah I think ugly is a tall order to overcome. For a guy to be good looking is a huge advantage in game. But mediocre looks can be overcome. It will never be as easy or as abundant or as fast as for a hot guy but 1-2 lays a week is still very doable.

Lovedrop was a great example. I showed a girl I was seeing a picture of him and told her that he's a dating coach. She was like "huh really? That guy?" Then I hit "play" on the video and she was like, okay, I can see it now, he has a presence about him that's attractive.

https://imgur.com/XkRVN6j

 

[Searcher]

Yeah I'm average looking. Friends have called me strange looking. I'm invisible... never got looks from girls or having them flirt with me. I mean it happens very rarely with girls I don't want, mediocre looking girls or fat girls sometimes start flirting. But even that is rare.

Kind of in the same boat here.
Sometimes I wonder the couple of lays I got are through pure luck or something. That's where I picked up the habit of being cocky and teasing women, (My mindset was "If I am not going to get her anyways why not just troll her a little bit"). I might sometimes overdo the cocky-funny and insulting a little bit.

Charisma and game work to build attraction (or compliance... a semantic issue we have to sort out some day), not just looks. But it takes about 25 minutes to really hook a girl in where she's genuinely interested and it can take a few hours until she's really into the guy. So we need to find situations where we have time with a girl. Street stop very hit and miss. Loud clubs very hard. But girls do get very into it with time.

Yup. It's about compensating through game and charisma and have it insanely better than a good looking guy with average game. That's what we have practice a lot.

The X-Factor improved it for me a lot, which is why I consider it my biggest breakthrough in game (in my signature).

When I had X-Factor going, I even flipped red-light girls. I would approach, they would give massively negative body language and a few minutes later I had them interested and then got the lay.

Nice going dude. What is X-factor though according to you?

Edit :- Found a 5 part article on girlschase website

 

[ElderPrice]

Yeah I'm average looking. Friends have called me strange looking. I'm invisible... never got looks from girls or having them flirt with me. I mean it happens very rarely with girls I don't want, mediocre looking girls or fat girls sometimes start flirting. But even that is rare. Old ladies usually love me haa. But I had to do all with charisma and game.

Charisma and game work to build attraction (or compliance... a semantic issue we have to sort out some day), not just looks. But it takes about 25 minutes to really hook a girl in where she's genuinely interested and it can take a few hours until she's really into the guy. So we need to find situations where we have time with a girl. Street stop very hit and miss. Loud clubs very hard. But girls do get very into it with time.

I have so many questions! I'm very curious what this translates to day-to-day for a seducer in this situation.

If it takes about a half hour to reach the hook point, doesn't this make lays exceptionally rare?

• How do you talk to enough girls? At this rate, you have to go out for 4 hours just to talk to 8 girls, and that's assuming no breaks in between!
• What would be the rationale for ever stepping foot in a nightclub to meet women? It's not conducive to talking as it is, especially if you need a 30 minute conversation just to reach the hook point.
• Doesn't this also practically rule out a ton of day game opportunities? Approaching at the store, mall, gym... Unless you get lucky, aren't these all very low odds a girl will be able to give you 30 minutes to hook?
• If this is true, then it practically seems like you're limited to ONLY girls that are chilling - so like girls sitting at coffee shops, libraries, and dive bars. No?
• When you say "it can take a few hours until she's really into the guy," I assume what you're saying is you'll need a few hours to get from the hook point to a lay? For instance, 2-3 dates?

None of this is disagreeing. I'm just fascinated by your comment and want to understand more!

Apologies if I misinterpreted your '25 minutes' comment.

 

[happynanako]

Ugly ?
Because most ugly guys know about their weaknesses, they compensate it through good humor, conversations, figure, fashion ...

Don't expect miracle to happen with just a few pickup lines... yes you may get to talk to her but when situation changes, you will be lost once again without helpful "tactics".

Build yourself up instead of being lazy, well if you're being lazy, no one can help you.

 

[Searcher]

Ugly ?
Because most ugly guys know about their weaknesses, they compensate it through good humor, conversations, figure, fashion ...

Don't expect miracle to happen with just a few pickup lines... yes you may get to talk to her but when situation changes, you will be lost once again without helpful "tactics".

Build yourself up instead of being lazy, well if you're being lazy, no one can help you.

No shit bud.

Try giving specific examples and not general suggestions, if you are capable of it.

I didn't sign up for you to be a cheerleader in skirts saying " YoU CaN Do THis".

 

[happynanako]

No shit bud.

Try giving specific examples and not general suggestions, if you are capable of it.

I didn't sign up for you to be a cheerleader in skirts saying " YoU CaN Do THis".

Good luck if you're not willing to change.

 

[Conquistador]

Are there any pickup artists who aren't considered good looking (as in if they were in a crowd, they wouldn't stand out because of looks alone and would fade away).

The OG of OGs, Lord Byron, immediately comes to mind. Despite the portraits, he was short, differently sized eyes, literally lame, etc.

More info here

His game is a very interesting case study, not least because he used his unconventional looks to slip under the radar. Even after he became infamous, he was hard to identify as such in the flesh.

 

[Derek da man]

I don't get the whole "you are cute/hot/etc" complement from women until I am close to sleeping with them.

Most women don't give compliments about looks - they don't want to be seen as too committed, they want to keep their position vague and make you chase. Watch their body language and reactions. If they remain with you, chatting, laughing and engaged she probably likes you. Watch the eyes to see where they are focusing on - probably your face - she wouldn't be doing this if she found you ugly so therefore she finds it at least fairly pleasing so she hasn't ruled you out. (Don't go staring at her eyes to watch where she is looking, just keep it casual and see out the periphery of your vision).

Two, women care less about race than most guys believe.

Couldn't agree more. In general terms most men will gravitate towards the same women based on looks. Women have much much broader tastes as to what they like. So if you aren't what one woman choice go find another as there are plenty that will be wishing you would come talk with her.

Some excellent advice and articles linked above.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

If it takes about a half hour to reach the hook point, doesn't this make lays exceptionally rare?

Depends how you define the "hook point". This term was coined by Style. His definition was, hook point is when they don't want you to leave. I.e. you pretend to leave and they stack forward (start a new conversational thread to keep you there).

When I say 25 minutes to properly hook them, I don't mean Style's "hook point". I mean getting to the point where they're interested enough that they wanna see you again and a time bridge will go through.

Let's say a girl sees young Brad Pitt and her attraction for him is 10 off the bat before he opens his mouth. She sees an average looking guy and her attraction is zero. You have to earn these 10 points over time then.

Earn 1 point with an interesting opener. Gets her attention. Earn another point with a cold read "wow impressive he can read me like a book". Another point by teasing her, "oh he's confident, he must be used to attractive girls or he'd be kissing my ass".

In other words, display all the traits women find attractive one by one. Throw a sexual innuendo. Show yourself indifferent. Push her away (verbally). Qualify her. Demand compliance, high status indicator. Show social proof through a story or nearby set. Be charismatic.

Points go up and up. Half an hour later she's not in love with you yet or ready to go to bed together but she's into you enough to agree to a time bridge (i.e. see you again). 3-4 hours to get her interested enough for sex. And after a few weeks or months she's in love.

You can also do time bridges in 5-7 minutes but you will have a higher flake rate. I had a compressed indirect stack for the subway, it went something like... indirect opener, tease, social proof, cold read, qualify, time bridge.

Direct street stops are very similar cause you will also have only a few minutes with most sets. The difference is of course that she has to make a decision in the first 3 seconds whether she even wants to talk to you at all or not, because she's walking.

Public transport on the other hand you have a captive audience and at least a few minutes to "talk away your ugly face" as Voltaire put it. This also makes game very hard without the proper state cause you need that charisma going.

• How do you talk to enough girls? At this rate, you have to go out for 4 hours just to talk to 8 girls, and that's assuming no breaks in between!

Yeah this is one of my problems lately as I'm stuck in small towns. Traditional style daygame should really be done in cities with at least 2 million population. In my experience, a city has about 1 great daygame venue for every 250,000 people. So 2 million = 8 venues = you can go 4 times a week without hitting any venue up more than once every 2 weeks.

• What would be the rationale for ever stepping foot in a nightclub to meet women? It's not conducive to talking as it is, especially if you need a 30 minute conversation just to reach the hook point.

Yeah I hate them. I think I have 7 lays from club game or something ridiculously low. Much better for nightgame are live music venues or bars or places where you can at least still talk for a few minutes so you can then drag her to the quiet area (patio, smoking area, etc.)

Then another huge factor for nightgame is standing sets. I've traveled over 50 countries and in most places, night game venues that aren't too loud to talk have tables and chairs. For some reason, the US and especially southern US has a lot of standing venues.

That makes it 50x easier because you can go up to a standing set at a table and throw out an opener while you're walking past or you can just happen to be near one group while talking to another group or bring a pawn near a table and then throw out the opener. Seated sets are harder.

• Doesn't this also practically rule out a ton of day game opportunities? Approaching at the store, mall, gym... Unless you get lucky, aren't these all very low odds a girl will be able to give you 30 minutes to hook?

Torero said a good average looking daygamer will get 1 lay out of 30 approaches. Probably about right. With indirect game on the other hand, with a captive audience, enough time to convey personality, the ratios can go way up.

This by the way is one of the main reasons why the PUA community was focused on night game. People are there for hours and hours! Huge advantage. Then if you're in the US and have tons of standing sets, and you can find venues that aren't too loud, it gets a lot easier.

Even Paul Janka had a number to lay close ratio of about 11%, so that's 1 in every 9 numbers, and how many girls give him the number? 1 in 2? That's 1 lay for 18 approaches. And he was a pretty hot guy in his daygame days. But that's direct street game.

• If this is true, then it practically seems like you're limited to ONLY girls that are chilling - so like girls sitting at coffee shops, libraries, and dive bars. No?

With low momentum, yes. Wouldn't mess with anything else to start out. With high momentum, your vibe will shift, you can do the X-Factor drills and you can do direct sets more consistently. But it's advanced.

• When you say "it can take a few hours until she's really into the guy," I assume what you're saying is you'll need a few hours to get from the hook point to a lay? For instance, 2-3 dates?

3-4 hours. Can be done in one day. In fact, this is a little counter intuitive but it's actually easier to do it in 1 date than in 2-3 dates.

The reason is again, captive audience. You can stair step her up the gradient all in one go without state breaks, interrupts, logistical issues, risk of flakes (things coming up in her life between the dates) etc.

None of this is disagreeing. I'm just fascinated by your comment and want to understand more!

Yeah didn't sound like disagreeing. It's just the cards we're dealt. I'm not worried about it because I used to get all the success I could handle. We're lucky that we're men, women are less superficial than we are and they really do find other traits very attractive. Just takes some time.

-Karea Ricardus D.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

If they remain with you, chatting, laughing and engaged she probably likes you.

Yeah. I would say "she's open". Not liking yet necessarily, but good enough. If you open a girl and she's willing to talk to you and continue the conversation, she's open at that point. Guys expect too much in terms of IOIs (indicators of interest), especially early on. If she's talking to you, the game is on.

For the good looking guy, she will immediately start flipping her hair, give the flirtatious eye contact, stack forward, start gaming him, ask him buying questions, all that. But for the average looking guy, she's saying "yellow light... what you got?" She's OPEN.

There's a great scene in the movie Swingers where Mike and Trent are in Vegas and Trent chats up a waitress. And Trent is like "she's into us dude" and Mike goes "you're delusional, she's not interested".

This is a great example of how the male mind thinks... "she digs me" (Trent) or "she doesn't dig me" (Mike). Very binary thinking... yes or no, either 1 or 0, it's on or it's off.

Both of these are wrong because women aren't light switches for most guys, they're volume knobs. Yeah for a hot guy it's just on, for an ugly guy it's just off but for most guys it's just... she's open to socialize and see more from you before she decides anything.

So What really took place in that scene is "she's open to socialize with us", meaning the volume knob can be turned, it's not blocked from being turned. That's all it takes cause then you can run more game and ratchet it up to "she digs me" over time.

 

[Will_V]

I think it's risky to classify yourself as handsome or ugly as a man. Your demeanour can literally transform what people see when they look at you. A guy who is emotionally controlled, satisfied with his course through life and cheerful about life at a deep level, exhibiting the right combination of kindliness and intimidation, has an attractive presence that overlays his static physical features.

Putin is a great example - short, fairly ugly by all accounts (rarely smiles and when he does looks like a shark) and yet he has such a presence and self control that it makes his physical appearance take a back seat when you look at him. If he had a weak or anxious personality, everyone would see this very clearly, but he doesn't and they don't.

Or Hugh Laurie, looks like a weird hillbilly in some photos, but most of the time seems to come across to everyone as very handsome.

I know for a fact that I get ridiculously different reactions when I am in a great mental state compared to times when, although I may feel fine, there is some deep seated hindrance to my self esteem or outlook on life that completely ruins my presence.

For a man especially, what people see when they look at your face is only partially what is physically there. Mostly they see and react to the face that looks out from inside you, because that is the one responsible for your effect on the world.

 

[fog]

just being stimulated can raise you a couple points in attractiveness...