Drama Great Relationship turning into a nightmare - how honest should one be?

[REM050]

Hi Guys,

I could do with some objective views on my current situation with this girl that I thought had ended my search. The question is twofold.

First: how much of a mess did I make here, and is it all my fault?
Second: am I just bad at selecting girlfriends?

The story, as short as I can get it is as follows. About 8 months ago I met this very cute girl on the corner of my street. Petite, beautiful black curls and a smile to never forget. Got her number, went on a few dates and decided to date her exclusively rather quickly. Main reason: she only ever had one boyfriend before me and was very sexually inexperienced as apparently they only had tried to have sex a handful of times in a relationship that lasted years. It wasn't good for her, he was bad at making her feel at ease so she reduced sex to something for after marriage. (This changed with me, and obviously she loved it. Would you believe she didn't know what 'doggy' was?).

She has a conservative/religious upbringing. Is really intelligent. Very caring. But was also a bit worried about my past of being a happy and successful bachelor still lingering around.

She was not liking me staying in the same hotel room with a female friend I went to visit abroad, for example, even though we booked one with two separate beds. I told her not to worry about this, as I'm a very reliable guy: If I choose to be with a girl I'm totally unseduceable - at least to date, and believe me, some very very attractive women have tried.

Now the big problem was the fact that I had a few friends that I first got intimate with when I met them years ago, but then turned into friendships. I don't know about you guys, but in my experience girls that you bedded a few times, then turn to platonic friends make for some really supportive and caring female friends. thoughts on this are also appreciated. Am I too openminded thinking this should just be okay?

The new girlfriend was suspicious about those friends, but I told her not to worry about them. I did not want to mention the fact that we had been lovers years ago and that nothing happened since right away as I did not want to upset her or think that I was keeping some open lines just in case...

This turned out to be a big stressing point for her. Her past boyfriend apparently kept on flirting and even possibly seeing some other interests in the beginning of their relationship and also her father has a history of being tempted by some attractive damsel in distress.

So, after a few months of keeping the story tight, which didn't succeed in her getting rid of her suspicions she found more and more evidence that I actually had been seeing these girls romantically at some point and I had to tell her that yes, that had been the case.

I dropped the friendships as I had no choice if I wanted to keep this girl. I could also see her point on this matter, which I did from the beginning, actually, but I didn't want to be the guy that kicks all his female friends out simply because he has a girlfriend that has a problem with them now. Understandably the friends were very disappointed, both in me and in the girl.

Through the months she has been quite controlling and suspicious of any other women, of me flirting with girls or waitresses, of me taking pictures (pro hobby) of girls that then appear to be flirting with me because I tell them to flirt with the camera, of me being there for female friends of befriended couples when a potentially big problem occurs, etc etc.

The interesting thing is that with me she follows the exact same pattern as she did with the previous boyfriend. Go 'full trust' (her words, not mine) in the beginning, then be disappointed of her full trust being broken and become very disappointed and suspicious. Almost end the relationship, stay around anyway, only to withhold sex - or at least suggest it. I'm living the story she told me about her past, basically.

Now, I would like to know: am I trying to be wit the wrong girl here? Am I a big asshole for not telling her the truth right away and unworthy of her trust? Is this worth continuing, independent of whose fault it all is?

I'd really appreciate the input.

Cheers!

 

[topcat]

I dropped the friendships as I had no choice if I wanted to keep this girl. I could also see her point on this matter, which I did from the beginning, actually, but I didn't want to be the guy that kicks all his female friends out simply because he has a girlfriend that has a problem with them now. Understandably the friends were very disappointed, both in me and in the girl.

Wrong move. You removed your options instead of giving her options. What i mean is instead of telling her “this is what it is, this is who I am, but i love you. I accept if you can’t handle it. Stay if you can but I understand if you can’t..” and then naturally and quietly curtail the prominence of the friends in your life (if you felt like it).

By cutting off your friends at her behest, you’ve now taught her that you will bend to the whims of her discomfort, as long as she makes a fuss about it. Leading to..

Through the months she has been quite controlling and suspicious of any other women, of me flirting with girls or waitresses, of me taking pictures (pro hobby) of girls that then appear to be flirting with me because I tell them to flirt with the camera, of me being there for female friends of befriended couples when a potentially big problem occurs, etc etc.

It won’t stop until you stop bending and offer her the option to leave if she can’t manage the discomfort of being with you maturely. Lead her and show her how to do that if she’ll allow it. If she won’t you now know you’re incompatible outside of your own servitude and your free to find a better girl.

In future, my advice, don’t be so eager to jump into exclusivity just because your heart tingles tell you she’s a great match despite evidence to the contrary..

 

[REM050]

Wrong move. You removed your options instead of giving her options. What i mean is instead of telling her “this is what it is, this is who I am, but i love you. I accept if you can’t handle it. Stay if you can but I understand if you can’t..” and then naturally and quietly curtail the prominence of the friends in your life (if you felt like it).

By cutting off your friends at her behest, you’ve now taught her that you will bend to the whims of her discomfort, as long as she makes a fuss about it. Leading to..

It won’t stop until you stop bending and offer her the option to leave if she can’t manage the discomfort of being with you maturely. Lead her and show her how to do that if she’ll allow it. If she won’t you now know you’re incompatible outside of your own servitude and your free to find a better girl.

In future, my advice, don’t be so eager to jump into exclusivity just because your heart tingles tell you she’s a great match despite evidence to the contrary..

Thanks for the reply! And of course you are right from a rational viewpoint. I am less capable of being that way, unfortunately, which I think is one of my biggest hiccups.

That said, I wouldn't be too happy had she had two or three ex lovers around that she is now friends with, so in the end I was definitely going to let these friendships fade out, which they were doing naturally anyway.
My main problem in all this is with not feeling able to tell her in the first place and then having to lie to her after that. She keeps on telling me that had I been frank from the outset there wouldn't have been any problems, but I just don't think that is the case.

On the exclusive dating thing. I think that that's a fine line to tread. Not being exclusive as soon as you both know it is definitely heading somewhere comes with its own set of future problems in my experience. I've made this work in the past, including staying friends with some ex lovers during that relationship, but I can't say my back then girlfriend was very happy with those things as individual facts.

As for the current one. We share a lot of important things, like future goals, values - except for me being a fair bit more open minded in the sexual realm than she is - and ideas of how a relationship should both look and feel. In many ways this girl has treated me better than any other before her, and all just because she is that way.

So, knowing all this, what would any of you guys have done differently? And is there a good way of recovering from a situation like this one or should I just give the whole thing up?

 

[topcat]

That said, I wouldn't be too happy had she had two or three ex lovers around that she is now friends with, so in the end I was definitely going to let these friendships fade out, which they were doing naturally anyway.

You aren’t her, and the the purpose of a healthy relationship is not to render each other equals. You have your needs, she has hers, if they work together you have a relationship, if they don’t, you don’t.

My main problem in all this is with not feeling able to tell her in the first place and then having to lie to her after that. She keeps on telling me that had I been frank from the outset there wouldn't have been any problems, but I just don't think that is the case.

She has no idea what would have been the case. Neither do you. The problem here is an inability on your part to put the relationship on the line if she’s unwilling to play ball. As a result you capitulate to keep her in it, at the sacrifice of relationship quality. She has you by the balls dude.

On the exclusive dating thing. I think that that's a fine line to tread. Not being exclusive as soon as you both know it is definitely heading somewhere comes with its own set of future problems in my experience. I've made this work in the past, including staying friends with some ex lovers during that relationship, but I can't say my back then girlfriend was very happy with those things as individual facts.

Attempting to keep your woman happy is a fools errand. Her happiness is her responsibility. Your happiness, yours.

As for the current one. We share a lot of important things, like future goals, values - except for me being a fair bit more open minded in the sexual realm than she is - and ideas of how a relationship should both look and feel. In many ways this girl has treated me better than any other before her, and all just because she is that way.

She treats you better than the past girls, but rations out the pussy and acts controlling. You can’t find better? Or you’re unwilling to make the effort?

-

To improve this, the option to walk away needs to be tabled.

 

[REM050]

You aren’t her, and the the purpose of a healthy relationship is not to render each other equals. You have your needs, she has hers, if they work together you have a relationship, if they don’t, you don’t.


She has no idea what would have been the case. Neither do you. The problem here is an inability on your part to put the relationship on the line if she’s unwilling to play ball. As a result you capitulate to keep her in it, at the sacrifice of relationship quality. She has you by the balls dude.

Attempting to keep your woman happy is a fools errand. Her happiness is her responsibility. Your happiness, yours.

She treats you better than the past girls, but rations out the pussy and acts controlling. You can’t find better? Or you’re unwilling to make the effort?

-

To improve this, the option to walk away needs to be tabled.

Obviously it's this kind of frankness that I come to this forum for. Thanks for being so blunt and straightforward. It's very much appreciated.

As for the walking away: I think she knows the risk of that happening is increasing as she has been speaking up about her fears of me doing exactly that. I don't want to, obviously, but if there are certain boundaries crossed we are left with little to choose.

I always want to understand everything and tend to overanalyse these kinds of situations. As a thought exercise that's nice, of course, but in practice it does more harm than good... She is basically taking the relationship hostage to combat her own fears and insecurities and that should not happen.

In the end I do feel that in a relationship compromises are to be made at some point. If she hates something and to me it doesn't matter that much I can stop doing it, of course. So saying farewell to some old lovers that stayed as friends was fine, giving up intimacy in an intimate relationship isn't.

Anyway. Thanks again and I will try to give an update in a few weeks. Cheers!

 

[Skills]

Hi Guys,

I could do with some objective views on my current situation with this girl that I thought had ended my search. The question is twofold.

First: how much of a mess did I make here, and is it all my fault?
Second: am I just bad at selecting girlfriends?

The story, as short as I can get it is as follows. About 8 months ago I met this very cute girl on the corner of my street. Petite, beautiful black curls and a smile to never forget. Got her number, went on a few dates and decided to date her exclusively rather quickly. Main reason: she only ever had one boyfriend before me and was very sexually inexperienced as apparently they only had tried to have sex a handful of times in a relationship that lasted years. It wasn't good for her, he was bad at making her feel at ease so she reduced sex to something for after marriage. (This changed with me, and obviously she loved it. Would you believe she didn't know what 'doggy' was?).

She has a conservative/religious upbringing. Is really intelligent. Very caring. But was also a bit worried about my past of being a happy and successful bachelor still lingering around.

She was not liking me staying in the same hotel room with a female friend I went to visit abroad, for example, even though we booked one with two separate beds. I told her not to worry about this, as I'm a very reliable guy: If I choose to be with a girl I'm totally unseduceable - at least to date, and believe me, some very very attractive women have tried.

Now the big problem was the fact that I had a few friends that I first got intimate with when I met them years ago, but then turned into friendships. I don't know about you guys, but in my experience girls that you bedded a few times, then turn to platonic friends make for some really supportive and caring female friends. thoughts on this are also appreciated. Am I too openminded thinking this should just be okay?

The new girlfriend was suspicious about those friends, but I told her not to worry about them. I did not want to mention the fact that we had been lovers years ago and that nothing happened since right away as I did not want to upset her or think that I was keeping some open lines just in case...

This turned out to be a big stressing point for her. Her past boyfriend apparently kept on flirting and even possibly seeing some other interests in the beginning of their relationship and also her father has a history of being tempted by some attractive damsel in distress.

So, after a few months of keeping the story tight, which didn't succeed in her getting rid of her suspicions she found more and more evidence that I actually had been seeing these girls romantically at some point and I had to tell her that yes, that had been the case.

I dropped the friendships as I had no choice if I wanted to keep this girl. I could also see her point on this matter, which I did from the beginning, actually, but I didn't want to be the guy that kicks all his female friends out simply because he has a girlfriend that has a problem with them now. Understandably the friends were very disappointed, both in me and in the girl.

Through the months she has been quite controlling and suspicious of any other women, of me flirting with girls or waitresses, of me taking pictures (pro hobby) of girls that then appear to be flirting with me because I tell them to flirt with the camera, of me being there for female friends of befriended couples when a potentially big problem occurs, etc etc.

The interesting thing is that with me she follows the exact same pattern as she did with the previous boyfriend. Go 'full trust' (her words, not mine) in the beginning, then be disappointed of her full trust being broken and become very disappointed and suspicious. Almost end the relationship, stay around anyway, only to withhold sex - or at least suggest it. I'm living the story she told me about her past, basically.

Now, I would like to know: am I trying to be wit the wrong girl here? Am I a big asshole for not telling her the truth right away and unworthy of her trust? Is this worth continuing, independent of whose fault it all is?

I'd really appreciate the input.

Cheers!

you should have been honest from the start, the problem was you lied to her.... But dropping your friendships was a no no... "i messed up looking back not being honest with you, there is nothing between me and sussy, sussy is in the past and yes we had sex, but now i see her as a platonic friend there is nothing there other than friendship, you are more than welcome to meet her, i am not too experience in relationships and thought i was doing the right thing, by keeping that from you, looking bad was one of the dumbest shit i ever done...." but i am going to be friends with sussy and you are more than welcome to meet her and see there is nothing between us....


^ i had former women i slept with that are platonic friends and i ma not sleeping with them that girls that i date no about, is not an issue, the issue and your mistake was lying from the get go... the mistake was lying not the friendship with former lover...

 

[REM050]

you should have been honest from the start, the problem was you lied to her.... But dropping your friendships was a no no... "i messed up looking back not being honest with you, there is nothing between me and sussy, sussy is in the past and yes we had sex, but now i see her as a platonic friend there is nothing there other than friendship, you are more than welcome to meet her, i am not too experience in relationships and thought i was doing the right thing, by keeping that from you, looking bad was one of the dumbest shit i ever done...." but i am going to be friends with sussy and you are more than welcome to meet her and see there is nothing between us....


^ i had former women i slept with that are platonic friends and i ma not sleeping with them that girls that i date no about, is not an issue, the issue and your mistake was lying from the get go... the mistake was lying not the friendship with former lover...

I know this, of course. It is the typical mistake of 'I will tell her later' and then later gets more and more complicated. Thanks for telling me like this, though. It hurts to read it, but it is the truth.

The problem now is: can I fix this? And is it reasonable to expect this to be fixable?

 

[Skills]

I know this, of course. It is the typical mistake of 'I will tell her later' and then later gets more and more complicated. Thanks for telling me like this, though. It hurts to read it, but it is the truth.

The problem now is: can I fix this? And is it reasonable to expect this to be fixable?

Yes I told you what to say

 

[REM050]

Yes I told you what to say

Sorry, I thought you were explaining what you had happen in the past yourself...

As for me, I did tell her more or less exactly that. The big problem was that she had already met the two friends in case and that one of them caused all her alarm bells to go off. In her eyes the girl was still flirting with me, claiming me as a sort of extension to her own boyfriend and using me for validation etc etc. Needless to say she hated her pants from the minute they met.

On the other side there was me, trusting my friendships to be truthfully platonic and genuinely personal and, well, you can imagine how this led to several clashes. Me then ending up telling her there was a past between this girl and me was the final nail to the coffin and left me with no other option than completely cutting off the friendship.

After that, though, she was still hurt and keeps on mentioning these girls. I think this has to do with her being as good as a virgin before we got together. To her sex is a very big deal. To me and the former lovers in case a lot less so.

 

[Skills]

Sorry, I thought you were explaining what you had happen in the past yourself...

As for me, I did tell her more or less exactly that. The big problem was that she had already met the two friends in case and that one of them caused all her alarm bells to go off. In her eyes the girl was still flirting with me, claiming me as a sort of extension to her own boyfriend and using me for validation etc etc. Needless to say she hated her pants from the minute they met.

On the other side there was me, trusting my friendships to be truthfully platonic and genuinely personal and, well, you can imagine how this led to several clashes. Me then ending up telling her there was a past between this girl and me was the final nail to the coffin and left me with no other option than completely cutting off the friendship.

After that, though, she was still hurt and keeps on mentioning these girls. I think this has to do with her being as good as a virgin before we got together. To her sex is a very big deal. To me and the former lovers in case a lot less so.

No your problem... Don't let her drained your energy, remain icey and tell her that you don't want to see her hurt you made a mistake but we got to move forward... Be firm but chill.. she needs to move on, don't get rattle you are the leader... She will be ok, this is nothing... I am more worried about you losing your shit, women game in relationships at times is dread game.. using her tears, pain, weak sex status as punishment and manipulation... Dealing with this correctly treating is at shit test is the move...

 

[REM050]

No your problem... Don't let her drained your energy, remain icey and tell her that you don't want to see her hurt you made a mistake but we got to move forward... Be firm but chill.. she needs to move on, don't get rattle you are the leader... She will be ok, this is nothing... I am more worried about you losing your shit, women game in relationships at times is dread game.. using her tears, pain, weak sex status as punishment and manipulation... Dealing with this correctly treating is at shit test is the move...

It appears that is impossible for her. She keeps on bringing up the topic. On telling me I should have never done this or that and no matter what I say or do, this is like an untirable boomerang.

She apologises every time the next day or even the same day, but we keep on going in circles where I want to move forward, she wants me to admit my mistakes yet another time, looks for wrong wording or whatever and starts picking my brain again.

I believe in peaceful and reasonable solutions, but this appears to be beyond me. I've had a few longer lasting relationships in the past and have always been able to manage them in more or less harmonious ways - except for the one in which I got totally depressed and another where I accidentally dated a narcissist - but never seen anything like this. I really believe some deep rooted trauma is acting like a catalyst here as by now (this has been three weeks already) most reasonable people would just start cautiously but purposely move forward if ever they had any intention of doing so.

Am I seeing this right or am I going crazy?

 

[Will_V]

Hi Guys,

I could do with some objective views on my current situation with this girl that I thought had ended my search. The question is twofold.

First: how much of a mess did I make here, and is it all my fault?
Second: am I just bad at selecting girlfriends?

The story, as short as I can get it is as follows. About 8 months ago I met this very cute girl on the corner of my street. Petite, beautiful black curls and a smile to never forget. Got her number, went on a few dates and decided to date her exclusively rather quickly. Main reason: she only ever had one boyfriend before me and was very sexually inexperienced as apparently they only had tried to have sex a handful of times in a relationship that lasted years. It wasn't good for her, he was bad at making her feel at ease so she reduced sex to something for after marriage. (This changed with me, and obviously she loved it. Would you believe she didn't know what 'doggy' was?).

She has a conservative/religious upbringing. Is really intelligent. Very caring. But was also a bit worried about my past of being a happy and successful bachelor still lingering around.

She was not liking me staying in the same hotel room with a female friend I went to visit abroad, for example, even though we booked one with two separate beds. I told her not to worry about this, as I'm a very reliable guy: If I choose to be with a girl I'm totally unseduceable - at least to date, and believe me, some very very attractive women have tried.

Now the big problem was the fact that I had a few friends that I first got intimate with when I met them years ago, but then turned into friendships. I don't know about you guys, but in my experience girls that you bedded a few times, then turn to platonic friends make for some really supportive and caring female friends. thoughts on this are also appreciated. Am I too openminded thinking this should just be okay?

The new girlfriend was suspicious about those friends, but I told her not to worry about them. I did not want to mention the fact that we had been lovers years ago and that nothing happened since right away as I did not want to upset her or think that I was keeping some open lines just in case...

This turned out to be a big stressing point for her. Her past boyfriend apparently kept on flirting and even possibly seeing some other interests in the beginning of their relationship and also her father has a history of being tempted by some attractive damsel in distress.

So, after a few months of keeping the story tight, which didn't succeed in her getting rid of her suspicions she found more and more evidence that I actually had been seeing these girls romantically at some point and I had to tell her that yes, that had been the case.

I dropped the friendships as I had no choice if I wanted to keep this girl. I could also see her point on this matter, which I did from the beginning, actually, but I didn't want to be the guy that kicks all his female friends out simply because he has a girlfriend that has a problem with them now. Understandably the friends were very disappointed, both in me and in the girl.

Through the months she has been quite controlling and suspicious of any other women, of me flirting with girls or waitresses, of me taking pictures (pro hobby) of girls that then appear to be flirting with me because I tell them to flirt with the camera, of me being there for female friends of befriended couples when a potentially big problem occurs, etc etc.

The interesting thing is that with me she follows the exact same pattern as she did with the previous boyfriend. Go 'full trust' (her words, not mine) in the beginning, then be disappointed of her full trust being broken and become very disappointed and suspicious. Almost end the relationship, stay around anyway, only to withhold sex - or at least suggest it. I'm living the story she told me about her past, basically.

Now, I would like to know: am I trying to be wit the wrong girl here? Am I a big asshole for not telling her the truth right away and unworthy of her trust? Is this worth continuing, independent of whose fault it all is?

I'd really appreciate the input.

Cheers!

As others have mentioned, the obvious mistake was the way you dealt with those other girls from your past. You had nothing to hide, nothing to be ashamed of, they were a part of your life story, and yet not only did you hide them from her, but when she found out about them, you ended those long friendships for her sake.

You have shown yourself to be a very weak person with her who is unable to determine for himself what is right and wrong. This is at the root of her controlling behaviour, it is an attempt to create a sense of security for herself that you do not give her.

It is extremely important to understand that her sense of security comes NOT from allaying her fears about whether you have fucked or will fuck some other girl, but from giving her clear and consistent evidence that you will act according to your own ethical framework at all times, and that no one - not her, not some other girl, not your buddy, not anyone - can make you deviate from it.

Her great fear is that, simply by gaining an emotional grip over you, someone else can make you lie about her and abandon her the same way. So she fights to have the strongest grip over you. When really the only person who should have that grip and need have it is yourself. But you do not yet have that.

The number one thing to do here is to re-establish your frame:

- Admit that you let your emotions get a hold of you in multiple ways and lead you into mistakes.
- Establish that while you care about her and would like to have her in your life, you'll do what you believe is right, and if she cannot live with that she can leave.
- Have one open and honest conversation about what happened and how you see things, and tell her you'll not be endlessly roped into the same conversation again.
- If she keeps bringing it up and annoying you with it, walk out of the room or, if needed, kick her out of your place until she's willing to be pleasant.

If she leaves, she leaves.

You have to realize that no matter how much you like her, no matter how beautiful she is, the relationship will always be ugly unless you get back on top of it. There's no point being in the kingdom of egypt if you're a slave. She can only truly love you when you put your own values above everything, including herself and her own wayward emotions.

 

[Skills]

As others have mentioned, the obvious mistake was the way you dealt with those other girls from your past. You had nothing to hide, nothing to be ashamed of, they were a part of your life story, and yet not only did you hide them from her, but when she found out about them, you ended those long friendships for her sake.

You have shown yourself to be a very weak person with her who is unable to determine for himself what is right and wrong. This is at the root of her controlling behaviour, it is an attempt to create a sense of security for herself that you do not give her.

It is extremely important to understand that her sense of security comes NOT from allaying her fears about whether you have fucked or will fuck some other girl, but from giving her clear and consistent evidence that you will act according to your own ethical framework at all times, and that no one - not her, not some other girl, not your buddy, not anyone - can make you deviate from it.

Her great fear is that, simply by gaining an emotional grip over you, someone else can make you lie about her and abandon her the same way. So she fights to have the strongest grip over you. When really the only person who should have that grip and need have it is yourself. But you do not yet have that.

The number one thing to do here is to re-establish your frame:

- Admit that you let your emotions get a hold of you in multiple ways and lead you into mistakes.
- Establish that while you care about her and would like to have her in your life, you'll do what you believe is right, and if she cannot live with that she can leave.
- Have one open and honest conversation about what happened and how you see things, and tell her you'll not be endlessly roped into the same conversation again.
- If she keeps bringing it up and annoying you with it, walk out of the room or, if needed, kick her out of your place until she's willing to be pleasant.

If she leaves, she leaves.

You have to realize that no matter how much you like her, no matter how beautiful she is, the relationship will always be ugly unless you get back on top of it. There's no point being in the kingdom of egypt if you're a slave. She can only truly love you when you put your own values above everything, including herself and her own wayward emotions.

Yes you are seeing it right... The apology was the right move and the only thing you could do... If she does this again you need to withdraw all your attention when she does this, if this keeps happening you may have to soft next as last resort...i had a girl like her is abandoned issues in childhood and shit my opinion, yes trauma... This type of girls major headache due to insecurity and abandonment, issues, paranoia and jealousy... Total headache

 

[Will_V]

This type of girls major headache due to insecurity and abandonment, issues, paranoia and jealousy... Total headache

Yeah same experience, they can be good girls but you have to be very very firm, strict boundaries, and never sucked into emotional tit for tats. Always warm/patient but following your own rules. And accept that the relationship will always be a little bit unstable.

The sex is usually great though, and when she wants to she can really melt your heart.

In the long run these girls always take more out of you, and it's a question of whether she's worth the trouble.

 

[Chase]

@REM050,

It appears that is impossible for her. She keeps on bringing up the topic. On telling me I should have never done this or that and no matter what I say or do, this is like an untirable boomerang.

I had a similar situation to yours. Crashed at an ex-girlfriend's place while I was in her town. The present girlfriend couldn't get over it and kept bringing it up. (chicks hate their man shagging his ex... ONS with a random is one thing. Banging an ex or a female friend? Red alert!)

I told her I don't fuck exes. The ex-girlfriend made one attempt (giggled & invited me to sleep in the bed instead of on the couch) but after that she left it alone and we just did friend stuff (visited a few old restaurants, hit the slopes, etc.).

Eventually when she kept bringing it up I told the present girlfriend, "Look: my story's not going to change. I told you what happened. But you weren't there and you have no way to verify whether I'm telling the truth or lying. So you are just going to have to decide if you trust me or don't trust me. That is for you to make up your mind about."

Then I left it alone for her to make up her own mind. She told me I was right, and after that the issue was solved.

The one wrinkle in your case was that you lied already, which makes trust harder.

What I might be inclined to do in your case, since these were platonic-only friends of yours, is just give her their contact info and tell her, "Look, you call them or email them yourself. Ask them whatever you want. Go ahead."

Then I would just leave her alone to contact them (don't sit in and eavesdrop) and let her gab with your friends about you.

It's probably just going to sell her on you more. You've got multiple chicks who like you a lot, who slept with you before, one of whom still has it bad for you... after she talks to them, you've given her the display of trust (gave her their contacts, then left her alone to ask whatever she wants unsupervised), got the display of attractiveness (multiple girls vouching for you); you're solid.

Only risk is they become buddies...

That happened with one of my girlfriends and the ex-girlfriend from before her. Easily became BFFs dishing and bonding over me.

Then the ex started making sneaky moves to try to get the current away from me so she could have me for herself again... whole friendship went off the rails REAL quick. (it descended into absolute ridiculousness before it was over)

Anyway, your gal doesn't trust you... as she shouldn't... it's very easy to go from, "Okay, he's being honest... he didn't fuck them..." to "Wait: he lied? He DID fuck them? But just 'before' and not 'now'? How do I know that ALSO is not a lie?"

You need something dramatic to rebuild trust, or it probably cannot survive.

Letting the girls gab about you is probably your best bet... I would think.

Biggest risk is if they start working her to try to peel her away from you, as that ex did with the other girlfriend of mine.

All you can really do is warn her about that and point out anything she tells you they are doing that is obviously aimed at driving a wedge between you.

(that said, if they drink/are party girls/etc. then if you go this route you might need supervised meets. e.g., you all get lunch together and let her freely interrogate them -- less likely for them to become BFFs if it's her + you + 2-3 other chicks than if it's just her chatting/meeting up with each of them one-on-one)

Chase

 

[REM050]

I'm impressed with the answers again, guys. Thank you so much much. I did most of the things suggested above, so I will give a few more examples and a bit more context

The gf obviously didn't want anything to do with the friend that she considered a 'pick me girl' that in her eyes was needing me for validation and an addendum to her own relationship, but the other one and her exchanged numbers and that did not help. They exchanged a few messages in which my friend told the gf that being controlling and jealous isn't the best way to base relationship trust on. That if I wanted to cheat I would just find a random girl in the street and do it. (Which is true, and the gf knows this, because that's exactly how I met her). The thing is that I won't cheat for all the obvious reasons. The Girlfriend, though, interpreted this as a warning that I will cheat on her anyway. More drama.

Last night we had a nice chat online talking about some deeper problems behind all this which made me feel like it was finally going somewhere, only for her to lose her shit again after a short hiatus of twenty minutes. What happens in these cases, I think, is that she gets external input and goes completely berserk over the same problem all over again.

I have the impression she wants to trust me again, but simply can't do it. That she gets shaken so easily now it's unbearable for her. Talking to a psychologist friend of mine affirmed me in my impression that this is definitely beyond the scope of me breaking her trust. She simply has a big fear relating to this topic and it would have come to the surface sooner or later. Now what the next challenge is is for her to realise this is the case. That I can't ever make her feel secure to the extend she wants to feel secure - I'm an artist, I travel a lot for work, move in openminded circles, lots of women like me - unless SHE decides she trust my unshakeable commitment to the relationship I'm in.

So, old fashioned romantic me told her to stop going in circles about all this and that I will write her a letter in which I will explain my views on the case. Of course I will tell her what I'm willing to do for her as well as what I'm not willing to do or sacrifice and then it is up to her to either take it or leave it.

PS. I didn't let go of all my female friends that are also ex-lovers. Just the ones she managed to convince me of that the friendship wasn't based on the right parameters. Apart from some real bad headaches good partners usually give you a boost on the wisdom department as well...

 

[Skills]

I'm impressed with the answers again, guys. Thank you so much much. I did most of the things suggested above, so I will give a few more examples and a bit more context

The gf obviously didn't want anything to do with the friend that she considered a 'pick me girl' that in her eyes was needing me for validation and an addendum to her own relationship, but the other one and her exchanged numbers and that did not help. They exchanged a few messages in which my friend told the gf that being controlling and jealous isn't the best way to base relationship trust on. That if I wanted to cheat I would just find a random girl in the street and do it. (Which is true, and the gf knows this, because that's exactly how I met her). The thing is that I won't cheat for all the obvious reasons. The Girlfriend, though, interpreted this as a warning that I will cheat on her anyway. More drama.

Last night we had a nice chat online talking about some deeper problems behind all this which made me feel like it was finally going somewhere, only for her to lose her shit again after a short hiatus of twenty minutes. What happens in these cases, I think, is that she gets external input and goes completely berserk over the same problem all over again.

I have the impression she wants to trust me again, but simply can't do it. That she gets shaken so easily now it's unbearable for her. Talking to a psychologist friend of mine affirmed me in my impression that this is definitely beyond the scope of me breaking her trust. She simply has a big fear relating to this topic and it would have come to the surface sooner or later. Now what the next challenge is is for her to realise this is the case. That I can't ever make her feel secure to the extend she wants to feel secure - I'm an artist, I travel a lot for work, move in openminded circles, lots of women like me - unless SHE decides she trust my unshakeable commitment to the relationship I'm in.

So, old fashioned romantic me told her to stop going in circles about all this and that I will write her a letter in which I will explain my views on the case. Of course I will tell her what I'm willing to do for her as well as what I'm not willing to do or sacrifice and then it is up to her to either take it or leave it.

PS. I didn't let go of all my female friends that are also ex-lovers. Just the ones she managed to convince me of that the friendship wasn't based on the right parameters. Apart from some real bad headaches good partners usually give you a boost on the wisdom department as well...

I did the letter thing with a girl like that... Letters help unfortunately only temporarily

 

[REM050]

Thanks for the heads up. I'm going to try anyway. Fool's errand or not, I want to feel like I have tried everything I could and doing this would give me that feeling. Also, I already wrote it.

I really appreciate your input, Skills. It's obvious you have been in this situation and that you want to prevent me from making the same mistakes you did. So I want to promise you this: I'll definitely let you know if you were right about it all.
I honestly feel that it is a long shot trying to fix this, but this girl made me feel very special before all this blew up in our faces and on top of that we share a lot of life goals. It's easy to find a girl that looks like her or better again, but the other things... not so much.

 

[Skills]

Thanks for the heads up. I'm going to try anyway. Fool's errand or not, I want to feel like I have tried everything I could and doing this would give me that feeling. Also, I already wrote it.

I really appreciate your input, Skills. It's obvious you have been in this situation and that you want to prevent me from making the same mistakes you did. So I want to promise you this: I'll definitely let you know if you were right about it all.
I honestly feel that it is a long shot trying to fix this, but this girl made me feel very special before all this blew up in our faces and on top of that we share a lot of life goals. It's easy to find a girl that looks like her or better again, but the other things... not so much.

No the goal is to try of course.. the letter is great it did work... My point is she needs to change her underlying issue at some point which is something to be honest beyond your or our pay grade herself and trauma and insecurities... Is not really 100 percent deal breaker sometimes is manageable but my point is it may not work permanently but is ok... Letters is a good way to communicate and let women save face vs in person were they get defensive at times...

 

[REM050]

No the goal is to try of course.. the letter is great it did work... My point is she needs to change her underlying issue at some point which is something to be honest beyond your or our pay grade herself and trauma and insecurities... Is not really 100 percent deal breaker sometimes is manageable but my point is it may not work permanently but is ok... Letters is a good way to communicate and let women save face vs in person were they get defensive at times...

Exactly. And that's what I also put in the letter. Will read over it again a few times the next few days and then we will see how she responds.