Having Trouble With Daygame

[Regal Tiger]

That could be a problem right there.

In my opinion, 99% of daygame results depends on state. It's no coincidence that you see some of the best daygamers out there espouse meditation and place a lot of emphasis on state control in general. James Marshall (who probably more than anyone inspires my general approach to daygame) considers it a cornerstone of seduction, and even life in general.

The reason why it's so essential, the way I see it, is because state control is the only really effective means of creating context out of thin air. Think about it, at clubs women are already horny and they've gone there prepared to find someone to go home with. Online, women know what the deal is, they swipe with the intention of giving a guy a chance. There is already context, the women there are somewhat self-selected as women who are looking to find a guy to do something with.

That means that in some sense, in those contexts, women have a certain expectation of what is going to happen next, and if a man fulfills it, then there's a good chance something will happen. He does not need to lead her to the starting point from somewhere different.

In daygame, there is no such thing. A woman who doesn't get approached a lot will often have no idea what to expect, what is 'normal' in a daygame situation, beyond her social instincts. That means that a guy must lead her to the starting point, by creating context.

It's very debatable what is the right context to create - some guys like to be very direct, others very indirect, so on - but the point is that the guy is in a position of having to provide a context that the woman can work with. And I don't only mean a logical context but also an emotional context, a set of circumstances that 'clicks' with a woman in some way so that she can respond in certain ways.

But the moment that a woman is approached in daygame, she is already in a context - whatever she is doing, whatever her mood is - that could be anything. And from this, the man must lead her to the context that allows the encounter to move forward. So first he must dissolve the original context before he can replace it - and in my opinion, this is where state control comes in.

State control is a collection of things. The first and most essential in the approach I believe are 1) being fully present and 2) being deeply relaxed. Being present allows him to focus entirely on her - something that she feels like being under a warm spotlight, that captivates her - and enables him to be very sensitive to how she feels. Being deeply relaxed allows him to absorb awkwardness and turn it into lightness - it allows her to be able to not know what to say or do without feeling the need to escape the pressure - as well as enabling him to finely tune his reactions to her based on what he is perceiving about how she feels.

After this comes more action-oriented manifestations of state control, like tuning the level of desire so that the encounter becomes sexual without being too pressurized, and also releasing his own authentic emotions without them getting in the way of the seduction, which is very important in creating connection.

The point is that when you don't feel all that interested or excited about the whole thing, your state is neutral. Everything becomes a mask rather than an embodiment - to illustrate an analogy with dancing, it's the equivalent of pulling and pushing her rather than her feeling the current of your desires and intentions and being inspired to move with you.

And in daygame, this can create enough of a sense of separation and distance that she just doesn't feel it later on when she thinks about what happened. It's like something that had the right shape but lacked energy, so she cannot move forward with it.

I would also say, to your mention that you don't feel approach anxiety, this is not necessarily a good thing. I don't know anything I've ever done that mattered that I didn't feel excitement or trepidation about, and that's part of the energy that I transform and direct to fuel the action I take. And believe me, she feels it too, more than the words you say or the techniques you use. When you are in highly energized, intentful state that nonetheless is calm, she feels the potential energy pointed at her like a cock, and there is nothing that validates a woman more than an attractive man who becomes electrified in her presence, she wants to feel it all released into her body. But a man who is going through the motions does not offer her that kind of experience, only the possibility that he will go through the motions of intimacy, which is something no girl in history has ever wanted.

I do understand and can do state control (big into hypnotherapy and it's a huge factor in it). So maybe I'm not coming across as sexual enough

I'll have to give it 30 approaches or so, before I can say for sure. But I'll give it a try. Tis the season of being 15 degrees outside so I'm not sure how quickly I'll be able to hit that goal, but I'll let ya know when I do!

Also, James Marshall is a name I haven't heard in a while. But I do remember him having a lot of sexual energy. If I remember right he called it the Jedi sex eyes. So yeah, I'll give it a try

 

[Regal Tiger]

@Regal Tiger, alright man.
Congratulations, this is one of the best out detailed explanations of game that I have seen.
It’s a blast just reading it.

Thank you!

Ok, so your texting is good enough, it should be working. And you had some success getting dates before so that’s cool.

The only thing I don’t see in your interactions is the hook point.

Since I typically go direct there's usually nothing other than either a hook point or a go away point lol

Like, I love asking women 'how single are you?' because it's fun for me. And it's not normal so I feel like I get pretty honest answers from it

For indirect, where I typically have better results, conversations tend to go a little longer as I'm usually seated somewhere. So yes, definitely a hook point there

Are you waiting to hit the hook point before proposing the meet?
Could you share some example of conversations you had?

A typical conversation involves trying to deep dive her about what she's doing/wants to do in life or about what she's passionate about because it allows me to talk about what I'm passionate about

But some typical topics for me are probably:
1) what her weekly plans are (I like asking what kinds of mischief she has planned for the week)
2) passions/dreams
3) hobbies
4) travel sometimes (if you could go anywhere in the world, where would you go?)

Mostly because that allows me to talk about those subjects myself. Although there's a Reddit thread about interesting questions you can ask people that I need to write down and will probably start using

I haven't been actively approaching for around 2 months (other than if I was already there because I wanted to be, not to specifically game and just saw someone I wanted to approach) so the only one I remember is from a few days ago

That one was a long shot cuz of both how I was dressed and she was with a friend. So that one was just a hail Mary lol

My guess is that probably you’re failing to excite the girl, don’t really hit the hook point and by the tenth minute you eject a little too soon.

Thinkimg about what Will wrote this could be right. I'm more of a Similarity guy, using Chase's example and less of am Arousal one

So I'll have to make it a point to try and change it to see what happens. Can't say how fast I'll get around to doing it cuz I'm a bitch when it comes to the cold. But yeah lol

Do you feel obligated to ask for numbers?
I don’t always ask for a number if I feel the girl is not feeling me.

Nah, I used to feel obligated to continue on even if I knew it was for nothing. But that was more of a test to see if I was right. I don't worry about that anymore and usually have a spot on intuition if she's interested or not

And if she rejects the date request then I'll move on with my day. Same if she has a boyfriend or whatever

 

[Chase]

@Regal Tiger,

Some good perspectives here.

I'm jumping in a bit late, but wanted to throw a few things out there.

First off, two thoughts reading through the thread... one is, like @Skills, there's an issue with the dates, since they are not closing. Second is, like @uriel, I get the feeling the girls aren't wound up enough for it.

Girls with boyfriends eye-fucking you is a pretty common thing with good fundamentals. I get that a lot too. It's because it's safe for them to do... there's no risk that you're secretly a weirdo and are going to come harass them, because the boyfriend's there to protect them if that happened. It's exciting, because she's hinting at / potentially setting up a competition between her man and an attractive challenger. Also, there are a lot of girls in relationships with men they aren't that excited about. Some of those girls are flirts. Some are big flirts.

I'm not really into girls with boyfriends, but I went through a period where I'd approach in these situations. Most guys are only semi-aware their girlfriends are checking you out, unless the girl's really trying to be obvious about it to make the guy jealous. So in that case I'd just approach the couple, be real friendly, chat them both up, tell them I wanted to invite them both to a party, then grab both their numbers. Grab the guy's first, then grab the girl's, and have a little obvious subcommunication with her right in front of him. The girl usually gets excited; the guy looks a bit uncomfortable, but he can't say anything since you didn't do anything obvious and you were just being so friendly with him. Plus he's hoping you're going to invite him to a party. Fun little exercise just to see if you can do it, but usually I'd just throw away the numbers... I don't think it's bad shagging girls with boyfriends, but not a lot of appeal for me.


FIRST OFF, THE APPROACH

You said you mostly focus on similarity + compliance on the initial approach.

I'm a similarity guy by nature, but I don't do a whole lot of it on the initial approach usually. Doesn't tend to work out as well, at least for me.

Instead it's more like

OPEN (CURIOSITY) --> AROUSAL --> COMPLIANCE --> SIMILARITY --> (INTERRUPT) --> COMPLIANCE --> AROUSAL --> COMPLIANCE --> (REWARD/QUALIFY) --> AROUAL --> SIMILARITY --> AROUSAL --> COMPLIANCE (#-CLOSE) --> AROUSAL --> INTRIGUE/WRAP-UP

So like

You: "Excuse me... hey there. Hi. Do you have any idea where the Mangrove Coffee is around here?"​

Her: "Mangrove Coffee? Hmm. I'm not sure I know that one." [curiosity]​

You: "Yeah, I'm looking for this new coffee place. Kinda hard to find. Hey, that's a really nice scarf you have on. Great complement for your outfit."​

Her: "Thank you!" [arousal]​

You: "Yeah, I'm Regal Tiger." [extend hand]​

Her: "I'm Lily." [takes hand] [compliance]​

You: "Lily. That's a nice name. Are you from here?"​

Her: "I am. I'm actually from the suburbs. Greenhill? Do you know it?" [similarity]​

You: "You know, I do, but -- [sudden topic change] oh man, your shoes are amazing. Do you go to school here?" [interrupt]​

Her: "I do. I go to State U."​

You: "No. Where's your backpack? You can't go to school without a backpack."​

Her: "Right here! I have one on!" [shows tiny backpack] [compliance]​

You: "That's not a backpack, you're lying to me. You can fit like one book in there!"​

Her: [laughs] [arousal] "It is a backpack! Look, I'll show you!" [takes off backpack, opens up backpack] [compliance]​

You: "Hmm." [look inside, carefully gazing in while she holds it open. She laughs] "All right, I believe you. Very nicely organized backpack. I'm impressed." [qualify/reward]​

Her: "Thank you. So do you go to school here?"​

You: "No, I try to avoid school at all costs."​

Her: [laughs] [arousal]​

You: "I'm kidding though, I'm kidding. I'm actually all graduated. I went to Other University. Which is basically like the same as State U." [similarity] "Hey, so you seem fun..." [pregnant pause] [building arousal]​

Her: "Yeah?" [laughs in nervous anticipation]​

You: "Yeah. We ought to grab a bite or a drink sometime."​

Her: "Sure, I'd like that."​

You: "I'd like that too Here, put your contact in, Lily." [hand her your phone]​

Her: [types in] [compliance / #-close] [returns phone to you]​

You: "All right..." [type a quick message] "Let's see... 'Hi... Lily... it's... that... guy... you... showed... your... backpack... to...'"​

Her: [laughs] [arousal]​

You: "No, I'm just kidding." [send message; actual message: "Hey, it's Regal Tiger. Save my number "]​

Her: [phone pings] "Got it."​

You: "Awesome. Well, Lily, I am off, on my Quixotic Mangrove quest."​

Her: [laughs] "Oh right. Did you try Google Maps?"​

You: [shake head] "No sign of it. I'll find it! Somewhere!" [calling back to her as you walk away] [intrigue / wrap-up]​

With many initial approaches I will do this thing where I start going into similarity, then interrupt it. Or I give a bit of similarity, then immediately rapport break over to arousal or compliance. So you are building a little similarity but mostly sticking with arousal or compliance. Only if I can tell a girl is super receptive to it will I do much similarity right off the bat.

Generally with faster-paced opening environments (such as on the street) I will be keeping topics fairly abrupt, interrupting them before they can get too long, and changing topics fairly swiftly to keep things moving briskly along. There is a mixture in here of small bits of connection, interrupted by off-hand "oh I just realized" style-based compliments and humorous remarks.

I find this staccato-style first few minutes tends to get the highest successful close-rate and follow-up date rate. Girls stay interested longer after because the interaction was fresh, they had fun, and it feels like there's a lot to find out about you.

I usually have a little wrap-up there, such as heading off on some mission as I'm leaving, so she has a bit to wonder about there. Some girls will ask about it later ("So did you find that place? Mangrove Coffee?" --> "Nope, turns out I had the name all wrong. It was actually Monmouth Coffee. How I got Mangrove from that, I do not know.")


SECOND OFF, THE DATE

I don't know exactly what you're doing on your dates, but if you're transitioning from online game --> day game you will have some recalibration to do.

Like @Will_V notes, girls already know what the deal is coming out from online: they're going out on a date, probably for a quick hookup. From day game, it's a lot less clear:

• You could be a potential new friend
• You could be a prospective boyfriend
• You could be a total weirdo who just makes good first impressions but that all disappears on the date

Girls are usually NOT thinking "we're gonna have a quick hookup" on the first day game date unless you are doing something really special with your day game approaches (doesn't mean you can't have quick hookups off day game dates. Just that that's not the expectation coming out on them).

Usually I like to begin day game dates on the same staccato note I used on the approach, then transition into a smoother conversation with more similarity, deep diving, etc.

Depending on the girl, if there is not as much attraction there, you may want to go for an informational date first, where it's just planned as a quick 40-minute coffee place meet-and-chat, which you will then walk away from unless it's going well. If it does end up going well, have a plan for a next venue to bounce to, to help solidify it as having progressed from this informal, informational thing to an actual full-on date.

Depending on the level of compliance you are getting, you can either do the "meet outside --> head to café really close to your place --> talk for 1.5-2 hours --> back to your place for [pull reason you seeded earlier]", or you may need a longer date template with other activities worked into it. Or you can use date compression.

I tend to think kissing before the pull is a big no-no for day game dates. You can get away with it more easily with night game. Online as well, because the girl knows the deal. Day game, she is out of her element, "this never happens", "I wasn't expecting this", and if suddenly she is in public kissing a man she met on the street, unless your pacing is phenomenal it feels too weird, like the whole thing was pre-planned, and she will bail. That might be different if you used date compression and you're on, say, your third date with her... maybe then you can kiss her in public. But if you're trying to do one date meet-n-slam, you don't want to kiss until she's back at your place, at least not with day game. At least not if you ask me; maybe there are other guys here who know how to make that work and can give you pointers.

But yeah, I would just look at my day game dates and keep them in mind, viewing them through that lens: this girl knows a lot less about what she is walking into than girls from online, social, or nightlife do; she is a little out of her territory, excited, but a bit more guarded, and a bit bewildered. You're more of a guide here, guiding her along this path, trying to make it comfortable for her, to help her ease into a seduction she can then enjoy. Once you're looking at it this way, you will probably see different things on dates you can do a bit differently and recalibrate to your day game dates (as opposed to online / dance class / etc. ones).

You got this, RT. Those first 100 or so approaches when you're figuring out a new approach medium are the hardest. Once you tighten up your calibration to the medium you're gonna go far with it.

Chase

 

[Regal Tiger]

@Regal Tiger,

Some good perspectives here.

I'm jumping in a bit late, but wanted to throw a few things out there.

Always appreciated!

First off, two thoughts reading through the thread... one is, like @Skills, there's an issue with the dates, since they are not closing. Second is, like @uriel, I get the feeling the girls aren't wound up enough for it.

Reading through the entire post, my gut tells me that you guys are right. In that the date style I've picked up from online isn't translating properly and so changes have to be made. Which ultimately means a bit of a start from ground zero

Girls with boyfriends eye-fucking you is a pretty common thing with good fundamentals. I get that a lot too. It's because it's safe for them to do... there's no risk that you're secretly a weirdo and are going to come harass them, because the boyfriend's there to protect them if that happened. It's exciting, because she's hinting at / potentially setting up a competition between her man and an attractive challenger. Also, there are a lot of girls in relationships with men they aren't that excited about. Some of those girls are flirts. Some are big flirts.

That does make sense. It reminds of a girlfriend from years and years ago who mentioned getting excited about that same thing when I used to have completely open relationships. Also her mom was really looking forward to us meeting for whatever reason... always thought that was odd but she was the type to live vicariously through her kids, so that's interesting.

I'm not really into girls with boyfriends, but I went through a period where I'd approach in these situations. Most guys are only semi-aware their girlfriends are checking you out, unless the girl's really trying to be obvious about it to make the guy jealous. So in that case I'd just approach the couple, be real friendly, chat them both up, tell them I wanted to invite them both to a party, then grab both their numbers. Grab the guy's first, then grab the girl's, and have a little obvious subcommunication with her right in front of him. The girl usually gets excited; the guy looks a bit uncomfortable, but he can't say anything since you didn't do anything obvious and you were just being so friendly with him. Plus he's hoping you're going to invite him to a party. Fun little exercise just to see if you can do it, but usually I'd just throw away the numbers... I don't think it's bad shagging girls with boyfriends, but not a lot of appeal for me.

Yeah I'd have to agree here. I personally don't have anything against it (unless they're married) but it's not something I'm actively trying to do and unless the girl is just an absolute 10/10 for me I usually end up letting her go regardless. But that does make sense

FIRST OFF, THE APPROACH

You said you mostly focus on similarity + compliance on the initial approach.

Yeah... after thinking about it I'm assuming that I'm a bit boring for the girls. And I'm hoping that changing up my state alone will fix some of that as mentioned above (I believe it was Will). My gut instinct says it'll change a lot, but it's cold outside and I'm not dealing with that atm lmao. So we'll see when I get the chance!

Otherwise I kinda go in with my natural state which is a bit happy-go-lucky (especially if she's got a big fluffy doggo). Probably not very sexually stimulating by nature.

I'm a similarity guy by nature, but I don't do a whole lot of it on the initial approach usually. Doesn't tend to work out as well, at least for me.

Instead it's more like

OPEN (CURIOSITY) --> AROUSAL --> COMPLIANCE --> SIMILARITY --> (INTERRUPT) --> COMPLIANCE --> AROUSAL --> COMPLIANCE --> (REWARD/QUALIFY) --> AROUAL --> SIMILARITY --> AROUSAL --> COMPLIANCE (#-CLOSE) --> AROUSAL --> INTRIGUE/WRAP-UP

Actually I really like it laid out like that! It kinda gives me a loose structure to base something out of.

So like

You: "Excuse me... hey there. Hi. Do you have any idea where the Mangrove Coffee is around here?"​

Her: "Mangrove Coffee? Hmm. I'm not sure I know that one." [curiosity]​

You: "Yeah, I'm looking for this new coffee place. Kinda hard to find. Hey, that's a really nice scarf you have on. Great complement for your outfit."​

Her: "Thank you!" [arousal]​

You: "Yeah, I'm Regal Tiger." [extend hand]​

Her: "I'm Lily." [takes hand] [compliance]​

You: "Lily. That's a nice name. Are you from here?"​

Her: "I am. I'm actually from the suburbs. Greenhill? Do you know it?" [similarity]​

You: "You know, I do, but -- [sudden topic change] oh man, your shoes are amazing. Do you go to school here?" [interrupt]​

Her: "I do. I go to State U."​

You: "No. Where's your backpack? You can't go to school without a backpack."​

Her: "Right here! I have one on!" [shows tiny backpack] [compliance]​

You: "That's not a backpack, you're lying to me. You can fit like one book in there!"​

Her: [laughs] [arousal] "It is a backpack! Look, I'll show you!" [takes off backpack, opens up backpack] [compliance]​

You: "Hmm." [look inside, carefully gazing in while she holds it open. She laughs] "All right, I believe you. Very nicely organized backpack. I'm impressed." [qualify/reward]​

Her: "Thank you. So do you go to school here?"​

You: "No, I try to avoid school at all costs."​

Her: [laughs] [arousal]​

You: "I'm kidding though, I'm kidding. I'm actually all graduated. I went to Other University. Which is basically like the same as State U." [similarity] "Hey, so you seem fun..." [pregnant pause] [building arousal]​

Her: "Yeah?" [laughs in nervous anticipation]​

You: "Yeah. We ought to grab a bite or a drink sometime."​

Her: "Sure, I'd like that."​

You: "I'd like that too Here, put your contact in, Lily." [hand her your phone]​

Her: [types in] [compliance / #-close] [returns phone to you]​

You: "All right..." [type a quick message] "Let's see... 'Hi... Lily... it's... that... guy... you... showed... your... backpack... to...'"​

Her: [laughs] [arousal]​

You: "No, I'm just kidding." [send message; actual message: "Hey, it's Regal Tiger. Save my number "]​

Her: [phone pings] "Got it."​

You: "Awesome. Well, Lily, I am off, on my Quixotic Mangrove quest."​

Her: [laughs] "Oh right. Did you try Google Maps?"​

You: [shake head] "No sign of it. I'll find it! Somewhere!" [calling back to her as you walk away] [intrigue / wrap-up]​

Greatly appreciate the play-by-play example. When I hit the drawing board again I'll try to use this overall structure

With many initial approaches I will do this thing where I start going into similarity, then interrupt it. Or I give a bit of similarity, then immediately rapport break over to arousal or compliance. So you are building a little similarity but mostly sticking with arousal or compliance. Only if I can tell a girl is super receptive to it will I do much similarity right off the bat.

So in a way this is how you keep her on her toes and keep things as exciting as those first few seconds of an approach?

Because I've noticed on some approaches that they'll be super happy/excited and after a few minutes things will die off because I'm so stuck on similarity building.

Generally with faster-paced opening environments (such as on the street) I will be keeping topics fairly abrupt, interrupting them before they can get too long, and changing topics fairly swiftly to keep things moving briskly along. There is a mixture in here of small bits of connection, interrupted by off-hand "oh I just realized" style-based compliments and humorous remarks.

I find this staccato-style first few minutes tends to get the highest successful close-rate and follow-up date rate. Girls stay interested longer after because the interaction was fresh, they had fun, and it feels like there's a lot to find out about you.

I usually have a little wrap-up there, such as heading off on some mission as I'm leaving, so she has a bit to wonder about there. Some girls will ask about it later ("So did you find that place? Mangrove Coffee?" --> "Nope, turns out I had the name all wrong. It was actually Monmouth Coffee. How I got Mangrove from that, I do not know.")

Nice nice, I'll definitely give something like this a try for sure!

SECOND OFF, THE DATE

I don't know exactly what you're doing on your dates, but if you're transitioning from online game --> day game you will have some recalibration to do.

Like @Will_V notes, girls already know what the deal is coming out from online: they're going out on a date, probably for a quick hookup. From day game, it's a lot less clear:

• You could be a potential new friend
• You could be a prospective boyfriend
• You could be a total weirdo who just makes good first impressions but that all disappears on the date

Girls are usually NOT thinking "we're gonna have a quick hookup" on the first day game date unless you are doing something really special with your day game approaches (doesn't mean you can't have quick hookups off day game dates. Just that that's not the expectation coming out on them).

Makes sense

Usually I like to begin day game dates on the same staccato note I used on the approach, then transition into a smoother conversation with more similarity, deep diving, etc.

Depending on the girl, if there is not as much attraction there, you may want to go for an informational date first, where it's just planned as a quick 40-minute coffee place meet-and-chat, which you will then walk away from unless it's going well. If it does end up going well, have a plan for a next venue to bounce to, to help solidify it as having progressed from this informal, informational thing to an actual full-on date.

Depending on the level of compliance you are getting, you can either do the "meet outside --> head to café really close to your place --> talk for 1.5-2 hours --> back to your place for [pull reason you seeded earlier]", or you may need a longer date template with other activities worked into it. Or you can use date compression.

I gotcha

I tend to think kissing before the pull is a big no-no for day game dates.

You can get away with it more easily with night game. Online as well, because the girl knows the deal. Day game, she is out of her element, "this never happens", "I wasn't expecting this", and if suddenly she is in public kissing a man she met on the street, unless your pacing is phenomenal it feels too weird, like the whole thing was pre-planned, and she will bail. That might be different if you used date compression and you're on, say, your third date with her... maybe then you can kiss her in public. But if you're trying to do one date meet-n-slam, you don't want to kiss until she's back at your place, at least not with day game. At least not if you ask me; maybe there are other guys here who know how to make that work and can give you pointers.

Yeah I remember reading stuff like this from different people and it helping overall with me in the past, I'll try to get back to it for sure

But yeah, I would just look at my day game dates and keep them in mind, viewing them through that lens: this girl knows a lot less about what she is walking into than girls from online, social, or nightlife do; she is a little out of her territory, excited, but a bit more guarded, and a bit bewildered. You're more of a guide here, guiding her along this path, trying to make it comfortable for her, to help her ease into a seduction she can then enjoy. Once you're looking at it this way, you will probably see different things on dates you can do a bit differently and recalibrate to your day game dates (as opposed to online / dance class / etc. ones).

Yeah that perspective shift does make a lotta sense

You got this, RT. Those first 100 or so approaches when you're figuring out a new approach medium are the hardest. Once you tighten up your calibration to the medium you're gonna go far with it.

Chase

Hope so! We shall see! But definitely after winter... I don't do well with cold lmao

________________


I definitely appreciate everyone's responses though for sure! I promise to update when I get more data. But again, I just don't know how quickly that'll happen since it's cold as balls and I don't want to enter into the winter.... I'll outlast any of you in the desert but I'll be the first to drop in the cold haha

 

[hey_lover]

The ROI for daygame has always been low but COVID has added another layer of resistance for women to meet men off the street. I've also daygamed since 2015 but the environment today and the corresponding numbers are so pitiful that I'm also considering hanging up my boots and doing something else.

Simply put, the time cost is far too excessive for the realised benefits (lays). There is also an opportunity cost where you could be spending your time doing something else to increase your SMV like increasing your earnings (second job) or earnings potential (studying). I'm battling this very question.

We've never met, we live on different continents, we most likely employ different styles of game, yet your COVID numbers are similar to mine. Although, I've actually got laid several times from daygame since the pandemic, I've had to approach around 800 women to lay them. Pre-Covid there were periods I was batting 1 in 7.

Once you reach a certain level of charisma and verbal influence, the biggest factors impeding your desired outcome is her availability, stranger danger and number of immigrants/migrants in your city. COVID is a new factor and possibly an overriding one. Unlike night or online, daygame women haven't stated a desire to trade fluids and risk their own and others health.

Losing most girls over the phone is also par for the course. There's a reason why the community pushes SNL's, SDL's, First Date Sex because your ability to influence her when she isn't in front of you is restricted and there are competing factors vying for her attention. Your odds of seeing her again drop massively once you number close.

Unless you're making stupid mistakes, you're going to find that texting girls who are interested will feel effortless, and those who aren't will feel like pulling teeth (credit:???). No amount of texting skill is going to change this. She will leave you on read or take days to respond, regardless of how on she was in person or how teasing/great your text game is.

Having said that, I think the texting phase is no longer just a transition between the initial interaction and the first date but rather has become an extension of the initial interaction. Most girls have been seduced online having exchanged a significant number of texts over days/weeks before meeting so it has become a minimum expectation of all guys to engage, intrigue and arouse over text.

As others have mentioned, dates/meets are also significantly different. Daygame girls will meet with varying degrees of buying temperature and you may even find yourself on dates with girls who came purely because they were curious and not due to any romantic/sexual interest. Girls who employ delay tactics or take longer to get aroused now have another reason to resist fast advances.

As such, date conversion rates won't be as high as they would be from online or night game closes where there is a clear agenda driving the dates. There's a lot more variance in the dating results because there is a greater variety of different types of women who have varying different sexual blueprints.

As for improving your odds, Cobi from the old forums swore by gaining as many reference points in field to identify the type of girl who responds to you the most and then targeting them. DWW has a variation of this targeted approach called finding your tribe. Many of my successes came with girls who shared the same dress sense as me.

Busy shopping areas and especially malls are better daygame venues than parks or high streets in my experience. A girl walking around at a leisurely pace is the ideal target.

Opt for quality over quantity and try to create a 'It Just Happened' dynamic. There's nothing worse than a guy bouncing around like a pinball. Whilst the adrenaline fueled charging around may catch a girls attention, you won't be relaxed and it will come across as premeditated.

More than anything, I think the elephant in the room has to be addressed. Having a conversation about IT to see where her position lies, and then addressing or sharing it might just be a crucial and underlooked catalyst for success.

 

[nolimits]

Hey guys was wondering,

Do you consider street stop effective ?

I hate counting a ratio but I'd say if I talk to 20 cute girls during the day I'll bang one.

The only thing is - day game takes a lot of time as someone rightly said.

Now, one can make the time to day game - no problem.

I just often wonder wether the problem is me taking too long to approach 5 cheeks becuse of approach anxiety (about a couple hours) or the lack of girls in town during work hours.

I live in one of europe main cities and have banged about 120 girls at the age of 30, just to give an idea of my 'level'.

Also, did someone ever experimented with an indirect street opener like the one chase uses in his exemple ?

I wonder wether that might greatly reduce approach anxiety, especially if the girl is walking fast and you feel the approach won't be a high probability one.

In that case indirect might work as a pre opener, which I'm a big fan using at night for it impedes rejection.

If you ask for information and then you switch to a compliment, a rejection might hurt less...

But is it the case ?

Not sure.

Guess I'll have to try that out.

PS: also, dedicating 2-3 hours a day to day game is not a waste of time at all to me since your ability to get girls correlates with your social skills and business success to a good extent. But am always looking for ways to gain time

 

[nolimits]

Another question I have is ;

Did someone experiment with doing day game while being really well dressed - in a calibrated but excellent way and compared that to doing day game while being dressed down ?

Curious wether if street approaching girls in a stylish gym outfit actually lowers by much the conversion rate, compared to approaching girls while being at the top of your game in terms of style.

Like, does it make a big or a small difference and in which way.

My guess is being really well dressed instead of being dress in stylish sportswear clothes, might limit harsh rejections although it does not eliminate them, and maybe increase lays by a slight margin.

 

[ulrich]

@Regal Tiger, I am surprised you ask about openers… man, you’re at 120!! You should be teaching me LOL

Street stops I have never been able to do them.
I feel they are ballistic, high stakes, all or nothing scenarios.

Daygame usually takes one hour or more for me to approach 5 girls… in my case that is because I only approach girls I dig physically, finding them takes some time.

And clothing is all contextual.
You look “good” only in reference to where you are and who are you talking with… a suit in a financial district is great but not in downtown or a country club.
Mind your surroundings and your target.
I prefer to dress something that looks dressed up but it’s less specific (jeans + dress shirt + cool shoes)

 

[Regal Tiger]

@Regal Tiger, I am surprised you ask about openers… man, you’re at 120!! You should be teaching me LOL

Lol thanks, but if you're talking about the two recent posts that's not me haha

But as for everything, I'm open to whatever works for other people.

Street stops I have never been able to do them.
I feel they are ballistic, high stakes, all or nothing scenarios.

Daygame usually takes one hour or more for me to approach 5 girls… in my case that is because I only approach girls I dig physically, finding them takes some time.

And clothing is all contextual.
You look “good” only in reference to where you are and who are you talking with… a suit in a financial district is great but not in downtown or a country club.
Mind your surroundings and your target.
I prefer to dress something that looks dressed up but it’s less specific (jeans + dress shirt + cool shoes)

Second the dress stuff here for @nolimits

If you know what people are going to dress, just go one slight notch higher and you'll look good

 

[Regal Tiger]

Side note: only a single approach since the updates. Still dealing with the cold (though there are warmer days) and lack of money (which should hopefully be fixed soon, is starting to get fixed already, good ole winter construction lmao)

The approach was in a Waffle House. But she's only interested in playing games.


I will note that my internals are a lot better than they've ever been though. Even if everything's kinda gone to shit. She texted me yesterday on Valentines Day saying she was free right then if I wanted to pick her up. My first initial internal response was like 'hey easy lay' but then not even a second later my reaction was that she was just playing more games more than likely (judged mostly based on how she worded the text which made her out to be the prize plus her past behavior).

This wasn't justification or anything like that. It was just my emotional reactions. It's fun to see the progression. I'm calling it the "Simpgression!" where I don't just jump at any opportunity like a dog, even if I know it's bullshit. Like how a younger me woulda done it

 

[Chase]

@nolimits,

I like street stops. You've got to be in the right mood to use them though. It's easier to use them on travel. Feels weird doing them walking around the same street you walk down in your day-to-day life unless you're on high momentum or you see a girl you simply HAVE to open.

If you're not on high momentum you can focus on stationary targets: girls waiting at street corners for the light to change, girls in parks, girls in little shops (just run in and open if you see her through the window and she's cute), etc.

Also, did someone ever experimented with an indirect street opener like the one chase uses in his exemple ?

I wonder wether that might greatly reduce approach anxiety, especially if the girl is walking fast and you feel the approach won't be a high probability one.

In that case indirect might work as a pre opener, which I'm a big fan using at night for it impedes rejection.

If you ask for information and then you switch to a compliment, a rejection might hurt less...

But is it the case ?

Not sure.

Guess I'll have to try that out.

That opener was pretty much a pure indirect opener... the only pure indirect openers you can really use for street stops are direction requests; nothing else makes sense (you're not going to street stop a girl to ask her how her day's going). You can use other forms of indirect for more stationary girls though.

There's also the family of openers I call 'indirect-direct'... where you open indirect, then switch to direct. Some guys don't like it (@Hector Papi Castillo hates it!), but I always used to give it to new guys struggling with approach anxiety when I coached in-field and it'd get them talking to girls quickly and doing so in a way that often led to phone numbers, dates, and lays. At least as day game training wheels, I think it's useful:

Easy Opening with Indirect Direct

Something I like prescribing for newer guys as a very low-pressure but high-impact and really quite easy opener is something I’ve begun referring to as “Indirect Direct”, for lack of a better term. Your run of the mill, general indirect opening – or, engaging a woman in conversation under...

www.girlschase.com

Chase

 

[Kvothe]

How to 'Meet Smooth' in Street Game

You can approach women on the street without it seeming awkward. Follow these few simple steps to approach women smoothly while out and about. Contents I. The Importance of Nonverbal Narratives II. Effortless Street Stops III. Practice Makes Perfect Meeting new girls on the street presents tough...

www.girlschase.com

How to open indirect in street game

This is based off a conversation from earlier that left me with some additional questions. Note: this is more of a beginner-intermediate to intermediate question, since pure beginners will benefit from doing direct day game just to get rid of approach anxiety and to start getting numbers and...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Starboy]

@Chase how do u encourage a girl at a stoplight to not cross the street when the light turns green? I find often not if girls are trying to go somewhere they won't ignore the walking sign for some random dude who opened them and started talking to them. Tony told me he would try and get girls to turn and look away from the stoplight.

Also in your experience does it matter if you stop a girl or walk with her? I know everyone thinks walking with a girl gives off a salesman vibe,but I think it depends how natural you can make the conversation look. It's been the experience of mine and other guys in nyc that girls won't stop downtown for the most part. Same for the Vegas Strip and Denton Fisher says it doesn't really matter if you stop a girl or not. He actually described front stops as austistic lol

 

[pancakemouse]

@Chase how do u encourage a girl at a stoplight to not cross the street when the light turns green? I find often not if girls are trying to go somewhere they won't ignore the walking sign for some random dude who opened them and started talking to them. Tony told me he would try and get girls to turn and look away from the stoplight.

Also in your experience does it matter if you stop a girl or walk with her? I know everyone thinks walking with a girl gives off a salesman vibe,but I think it depends how natural you can make the conversation look. It's been the experience of mine and other guys in nyc that girls won't stop downtown for the most part. Same for the Vegas Strip and Denton Fisher says it doesn't really matter if you stop a girl or not. He actually described front stops as austistic lol

Best not to bother asking non-NYC guys about walking with girls. They just don't get the necessity of it because they've never experienced NYC daygame.

You should always try to stop. But if you can't, walk with her until you build enough compliance to stop her.

 

[stillunknocket]

You: "Excuse me... hey there. Hi. Do you have any idea where the Mangrove Coffee is around here?"Her: "Mangrove Coffee? Hmm. I'm not sure I know that one." [curiosity]You: "Yeah, I'm looking for this new coffee place. Kinda hard to find. Hey, that's a really nice scarf you have on. Great complement for your outfit."Her: "Thank you!" [arousal]You: "Yeah, I'm Regal Tiger." [extend hand]Her: "I'm Lily." [takes hand] [compliance]You: "Lily. That's a nice name. Are you from here?"Her: "I am. I'm actually from the suburbs. Greenhill? Do you know it?" [similarity]You: "You know, I do, but -- [sudden topic change] oh man, your shoes are amazing. Do you go to school here?" [interrupt]Her: "I do. I go to State U."You: "No. Where's your backpack? You can't go to school without a backpack."Her: "Right here! I have one on!" [shows tiny backpack] [compliance]You: "That's not a backpack, you're lying to me. You can fit like one book in there!"Her: [laughs] [arousal] "It is a backpack! Look, I'll show you!" [takes off backpack, opens up backpack] [compliance]You: "Hmm." [look inside, carefully gazing in while she holds it open. She laughs] "All right, I believe you. Very nicely organized backpack. I'm impressed." [qualify/reward]Her: "Thank you. So do you go to school here?"You: "No, I try to avoid school at all costs."Her: [laughs] [arousal]You: "I'm kidding though, I'm kidding. I'm actually all graduated. I went to Other University. Which is basically like the same as State U." [similarity] "Hey, so you seem fun..." [pregnant pause] [building arousal]Her: "Yeah?" [laughs in nervous anticipation]You: "Yeah. We ought to grab a bite or a drink sometime."Her: "Sure, I'd like that."You: "I'd like that too Here, put your contact in, Lily." [hand her your phone]Her: [types in] [compliance / #-close] [returns phone to you]You: "All right..." [type a quick message] "Let's see... 'Hi... Lily... it's... that... guy... you... showed... your... backpack... to...'"Her: [laughs] [arousal]You: "No, I'm just kidding." [send message; actual message: "Hey, it's Regal Tiger. Save my number "]Her: [phone pings] "Got it."You: "Awesome. Well, Lily, I am off, on my Quixotic Mangrove quest."Her: [laughs] "Oh right. Did you try Google Maps?"You: [shake head] "No sign of it. I'll find it! Somewhere!" [calling back to her as you walk away] [intrigue / wrap-up]

This was really inspiring to read. Hopefully I can start pulling some of this into my approached. I think that I focus too much on deep diving during daygame, and that doesn't work unless the girl is already pretty interested in me (Which has happened a surprising amount recently). I love the staccato energy here. Can I do it? I will see!

More than anything at this first stage, I need to see day games as fun, spontaneous ways to meet lost of interesting people I would not otherwise meet. I don't always feel that after a day of awkward conversations, but it is the mindset I always try to get back to. And sometimes the energy exchange is fun enough to make me generally feel that out in the field.

 

[Chase]

@Starboy,

@Chase how do u encourage a girl at a stoplight to not cross the street when the light turns green? I find often not if girls are trying to go somewhere they won't ignore the walking sign for some random dude who opened them and started talking to them. Tony told me he would try and get girls to turn and look away from the stoplight.

Also in your experience does it matter if you stop a girl or walk with her? I know everyone thinks walking with a girl gives off a salesman vibe,but I think it depends how natural you can make the conversation look. It's been the experience of mine and other guys in nyc that girls won't stop downtown for the most part. Same for the Vegas Strip and Denton Fisher says it doesn't really matter if you stop a girl or not. He actually described front stops as austistic lol

I suppose getting the girl to stop at the corner and chat that might work in smaller cities with a more relaxed pace of life. If you like large, fast-paced capital cities (as I do), it's a big compliance ask to try to have a girl stop walking to stand and talk with you when she has somewhere to go, and usually you won't have that compliance in the time it takes waiting for the light to change.

Better bet is to walk with her for a short while, then either grab her contact if you're not getting tons of interest/compliance, or if she is very interested and compliant then you pull her off to the side to talk, then see if you can instant date her.

It's not a big deal to walk with girls during the day while day gaming, unless you have somewhere really important you're trying to get to then and there in a different direction. It doesn't feel salesman-y if you're already going that way. Now, if she wants to turn down a side street and you're not headed that way, it's a bit of a different story...


@stillunknocket,

This was really inspiring to read. Hopefully I can start pulling some of this into my approached. I think that I focus too much on deep diving during daygame, and that doesn't work unless the girl is already pretty interested in me (Which has happened a surprising amount recently). I love the staccato energy here. Can I do it? I will see!

More than anything at this first stage, I need to see day games as fun, spontaneous ways to meet lost of interesting people I would not otherwise meet. I don't always feel that after a day of awkward conversations, but it is the mindset I always try to get back to. And sometimes the energy exchange is fun enough to make me generally feel that out in the field.

Cheers!

Yes, that is the healthiest and most productive way to come at day game.

It's just chatting up strangers who look interesting, and sometimes great new connections come from it.

Awkwardness is a phase everybody goes to when acclimating to a type of game, or game in general. Or when brushing rust off. You get more comfortable as you go... just need to give it time.

Chase

 

[sab]

The fact that daygame is so uncertain is what makes it so thrilling. I approached a pretty girl - on Valentine Day - who I spotted from a distance. It turned out she was a flight attendant staying at a nearby hotel. I hesitated a bit because she looked very young and very attractive. I still consider myself a beginner. We ended up sharing a meal at restaurant after few minutes of conversation and heavy petting and sex talk - a la Teevster. She said she liked my spontaneity and she offered to come to my place. She said she shared a room with other flight attendants at the hotel and so we could not go to the hotel. Never thought possible to get a flight attendant like that before.

 

[nolimits]

The fact that daygame is so uncertain is what makes it so thrilling. I approached a pretty girl - on Valentine Day - who I spotted from a distance. It turned out she was a flight attendant staying at a nearby hotel. I hesitated a bit because she looked very young and very attractive. I still consider myself a beginner. We ended up sharing a meal at restaurant after few minutes of conversation and heavy petting and sex talk - a la Teevster. She said she liked my spontaneity and she offered to come to my place. She said she shared a room with other flight attendants at the hotel and so we could not go to the hotel. Never thought possible to get a flight attendant like that before.

@Regal Tiger, I am surprised you ask about openers… man, you’re at 120!! You should be teaching me LOL

Street stops I have never been able to do them.
I feel they are ballistic, high stakes, all or nothing scenarios.

Daygame usually takes one hour or more for me to approach 5 girls… in my case that is because I only approach girls I dig physically, finding them takes some time.

And clothing is all contextual.
You look “good” only in reference to where you are and who are you talking with… a suit in a financial district is great but not in downtown or a country club.
Mind your surroundings and your target.
I prefer to dress something that looks dressed up but it’s less specific (jeans + dress shirt + cool shoes)

Yo man,
Thank you.

I agree that dressing depends on your target but also on competition ( I live in Paris which certainly isn’t the last on the least in terms of how demanding the women can be and how stylish the men are)

I’m kinda testing this out and looks like being dress well instead of well but in sweatpants ( which is edgier and less ‘ commercial ‘ ) helps by reducing harsh rejections and probably increasing the chances of reaching the hook point.

Not sure how much it helps but it for sure does.

I would add that a high quantity of approach is still the main driver for street stops especially if yoj are only targeting girls u consider hot.

 

[nolimits]

@nolimits,

I like street stops. You've got to be in the right mood to use them though. It's easier to use them on travel. Feels weird doing them walking around the same street you walk down in your day-to-day life unless you're on high momentum or you see a girl you simply HAVE to open.

If you're not on high momentum you can focus on stationary targets: girls waiting at street corners for the light to change, girls in parks, girls in little shops (just run in and open if you see her through the window and she's cute), etc.



That opener was pretty much a pure indirect opener... the only pure indirect openers you can really use for street stops are direction requests; nothing else makes sense (you're not going to street stop a girl to ask her how her day's going). You can use other forms of indirect for more stationary girls though.

There's also the family of openers I call 'indirect-direct'... where you open indirect, then switch to direct. Some guys don't like it (@Hector Papi Castillo hates it!), but I always used to give it to new guys struggling with approach anxiety when I coached in-field and it'd get them talking to girls quickly and doing so in a way that often led to phone numbers, dates, and lays. At least as day game training wheels, I think it's useful:

Easy Opening with Indirect Direct

Something I like prescribing for newer guys as a very low-pressure but high-impact and really quite easy opener is something I’ve begun referring to as “Indirect Direct”, for lack of a better term. Your run of the mill, general indirect opening – or, engaging a woman in conversation under...

www.girlschase.com

Chase

Hey Chase,

thanks for your insights.

Does that mean that nowadays you only do street stops if the girl is incredibly beautiful ? Isn’t that a little limiting ?

Let’s say you wanted to maximize the quality of women you dated pretty fast though…

wouldn’t a talk to 10-15 girls a day most of which on the street be your go to protocol ?

In that case what I found is that in terms of ROI, interesting things start happening once you talk to at least 10 gals a day.

less than that and you can quickly fall into a negative thought pattern and cycle.

i know you recommend 4 a day to get momentum but to me ( good looking guy with good fundamentals) that is almost the same effort as talking to 10 girls a day with half the results.

what I mean is that talking to 4 girls a day is still a lot of effort - it still requires you to attach your identity to the goal in order to be pulled off - so you might as well talk to 10 girls a day.


with 10 girls a day you can usually get a couple girls that hook…

what are your thoughts chase and the other guys ?

 

[Chase]

@nolimits,

Hey Chase,

thanks for your insights.

Does that mean that nowadays you only do street stops if the girl is incredibly beautiful ? Isn’t that a little limiting ?

Have you ever seen a guy do a street stop? It is not an especially normal behavior to engage in. I don't know any guy who isn't in "gotta get my reps in to level up" mode who does tons of street stops.

You don't need to restrict yourself to only incredibly beautiful girls though. Once you know how to street stop and you're out of the learning phase, you will instead use street stops strategically... e.g., you're walking down a quiet street in the afternoon and you see a cute girl headed your way. Street stop. You're at an outdoor mall and you've just exited a restaurant with a buddy of yours, in a good, social state, and you see an attractive girl about to cross your path. Street stop.

Like that. Not limited. Opportunistic.

Let’s say you wanted to maximize the quality of women you dated pretty fast though…

wouldn’t a talk to 10-15 girls a day most of which on the street be your go to protocol ?

In that case what I found is that in terms of ROI, interesting things start happening once you talk to at least 10 gals a day.

less than that and you can quickly fall into a negative thought pattern and cycle.

i know you recommend 4 a day to get momentum but to me ( good looking guy with good fundamentals) that is almost the same effort as talking to 10 girls a day with half the results.

what I mean is that talking to 4 girls a day is still a lot of effort - it still requires you to attach your identity to the goal in order to be pulled off - so you might as well talk to 10 girls a day.


with 10 girls a day you can usually get a couple girls that hook…

what are your thoughts chase and the other guys ?

4's the minimum, yeah.

I think it's a good number because it doesn't feel like a lot.

Once you start doing it, you may find you're warmed up and want to keep going.

A lot of it depends how good your targeting is, how advanced your game is, what your hit rate is, etc.

But there's also the question of "how well does it fit into your lifestyle?"

If you go out and push yourself to approach and you're "just approaching", results don't always seem to be as good as when it's opportunistic. But it's hard to get 10 approaches a day in opportunistically unless you're really on fire or you're outside all day long. 10 approaches usually means "dedicated day game session."

4 you can do opportunistically: chat up the girl waiting for the train... chat up the girl near you at the coffee shop... street stop a girl walking out of a store... chat up another girl in the store. That's easy to do if you're moving around a little but not a lot. (but it also could be you are outside a lot more during the day or are a lot more mobile in your outings!)

That's not to say 10/day is a bad plan though. One of the guys I learned from lived far from the big city and had a 9-to-5 that kept him working regular hours. So he'd drive into the city on Saturday, day game for 12 hours straight, then drive home, text all his girls, set up dates on Sunday, then drive back to the city on Sunday to meet his dates at the mall, run them through his date process, then bring them to this van he had strategically parked in a lonely part of the parking garage and shag them there. Basically a pitch-perfect way of getting the most out of a dedicated day game session, I'd say.

Once you're skilled at day game you can also do the thing where you just go out early and start approaching and just approach all day until you find a girl who'll go home with you. That can be fun, but kind of exhausting unless you get a girl who hooks hard early on, and it's not usually something you want to do every day.

More to your question... if I was hard-up for a girlfriend and I didn't want to do any screwing around, then I might just do 10-15 DG approaches per day until I found her, sure. Usually though you can go out and do 4-5 DG approaches, get a lead with one or two cute girls, see if you can lay those girls, do more approaches, lay a few more cute girls, bag a stunner, but whoops, turns out she's not girlfriend material, keep going, another cutie or two, then suddenly there's your girlfriend. So long as you're not desperate to find her ASAP, and are fine to shag a few cute girls along the way to her, you don't need to go crazy doing a ton of approaches... buuut if 10 is no different for you than 4, then by all means, could work great!

Chase