How do you add more man-to-woman relationship in a friendly cold approach

[vicknick]

I was thinking about how to divert a conversation to be more man-to-woman instead of friendly one during cold approach, but not sure how to do it. There is also little guide on the internet about this as well.

For example, here is a sample conversation in a clothing shop:

Me: So you come here shopping by yourself
Her: Yes, I am going back to xyz next week.
Me: Oh, you back xyz next week, so you are not local?
Her: Nono, I work here. I go back to visit my family, for my cousin wedding. Thank you for asking.
Me: How old are you?
Her: I am 27. Why?
Me: Oh, I thought you are other than than. Like 30 something.
Her: Wah hahaha
Me: Cuz your dressing and face look a bit mature
Me: So what are you working as?
Her: I work as customer service.
Me: Sounds quite stressful. Everyday has to handle all the customer complaints.
Her: Yes, have to handle the customer requests. I work at abc office.
Me: Your eyebrow is quite thick, do you draw it or natural?
Her: Haha I draw it by myself
Me: To seduce new customer I guess (smirk)
Her: Hahaha, practice.
Her: What are you look here
Me: I am checking out new clothing. I rarely come to this mall, stay other place.
Her: Where you stay?
Me: Currently I stay in aaa
Her: Oh, so far from here
Me: One highway to here, about 20 minutes. How about you?
Her: I stay in zzz, not too far
Me: I think about 10 minutes
Her: Yes 10 or 15 minutes
Me: I gonna continue shopping. Before I go can I add your number?
Her: Okay
(add her number)
Me: Are you wearing contact lenses?
Her: No
Me: Cuz your eye is brown color
Her: Ya I think it's brown
Me: So that's why you dye your hair brown to match your eye (her hair is brown color)
Her: Hahaha
Her: Should I continue? (shopping)
Me: Sure, bye
Her: Bye

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

to be more man-to-woman

are you an RSD guy?

"man to woman" is something i remember RSD Todd saying a lot and Tyler as well.

brings back memories.

 

[vicknick]

are you an RSD guy?

"man to woman" is something i remember RSD Todd saying a lot and Tyler as well.

brings back memories.

No, I heard from somewhere else. But it was not mentioned that often on this site.

 

[Will_V]

Well done for getting out there and learning! However this needs some work my friend.

I was thinking about how to divert a conversation to be more man-to-woman instead of friendly one during cold approach, but not sure how to do it. There is also little guide on the internet about this as well.

For example, here is a sample conversation in a clothing shop:

Me: So you come here shopping by yourself
Her: Yes, I am going back to xyz next week.
Me: Oh, you back xyz next week, so you are not local?
Her: Nono, I work here. I go back to visit my family, for my cousin wedding. Thank you for asking.

Why are you interested in these irrelevant details? Seduction isn't about transfers of information. It's about attention and the Self.

Me: How old are you?
Her: I am 27. Why?
Me: Oh, I thought you are other than than. Like 30 something.
Her: Wah hahaha

Irrelevant, and never tell a girl she's older than what she looks.

Me: Cuz your dressing and face look a bit mature
Me: So what are you working as?
Her: I work as customer service.
Me: Sounds quite stressful. Everyday has to handle all the customer complaints.
Her: Yes, have to handle the customer requests. I work at abc office.

Why are you bringing up the most negative aspect of her job? She doesn't want to be reminded of it.

Me: Your eyebrow is quite thick, do you draw it or natural?
Her: Haha I draw it by myself

Cutting threads suddenly from one topic to another is jarring and unhelpful. This is what interrogators do to make people feel confused and unbalanced, so I'm sure you can see it's not a good idea.

Me: To seduce new customer I guess (smirk)
Her: Hahaha, practice.

This is fishing for compliance in a very direct way with absolutely no reason for her to go along. You have to warm her up, have her enjoying the conversation first. Otherwise framing her as trying to seduce you is going to make her defensive.

Her: What are you look here
Me: I am checking out new clothing. I rarely come to this mall, stay other place.
Her: Where you stay?
Me: Currently I stay in aaa
Her: Oh, so far from here
Me: One highway to here, about 20 minutes. How about you?
Her: I stay in zzz, not too far
Me: I think about 10 minutes
Her: Yes 10 or 15 minutes

This is the first actually useful information that you can use, and she was the one that started the thread.

Me: I gonna continue shopping. Before I go can I add your number?

Need to seed the date before getting the number.

Her: Okay
(add her number)
Me: Are you wearing contact lenses?
Her: No
Me: Cuz your eye is brown color
Her: Ya I think it's brown
Me: So that's why you dye your hair brown to match your eye (her hair is brown color)
Her: Hahaha
Her: Should I continue? (shopping)
Me: Sure, bye
Her: Bye

More kind of random irrelevant details being conversed about in a slightly awkward way. Not helpful.

I can see that you know something is amiss here which is why you posted the thread, and that's good.

Basically, good seductive conversation is about finding out what kind of girl she is, and sharing what kind of guy you are. It is NOT about finding out what the logistics of her day is, it is NOT about discussing the weather, your jobs, bank accounts, or any other irrelevant boring detail. When you follow these useless threads the message that she gets loud and clear is 'this guy doesn't know what tf he is doing' and attraction goes down. You are not her auditor from the Lifestyle Compliance department of the government.

The golden rule with conversation is to make everything boil down to 'what kind of girl are you?' either personality wise or physically.

So let's look at all the bits of information and how you can do that.

Info: She shops by herself
Question: Oh is shopping a sort of therapy for you after a long day?

Info: She works in customer service
Question: Oh so are you a people person?
<if she says yes> oh good cos I'm not <smile playfully> we can start a company then and combine our talents <introduces polarity, she'll probably want to know what your talents are, which you can then be playfully mysterious about>

Info: I drew my eyebrow myself
Statement: It's very luscious <smile> you should be a makeup artist <transition to thread where she can talk about what she likes doing besides customer service>

Info: I stay in xyz part of town
Statement: Oh the bad part of town .. <smile>

Info: she's not wearing contact lenses
Statement: your eyes are a very deep <say it seductively slowly while maintaining eye contact> brown
Statement: It matches your hair <reach out and touch her hair, initiate physical contact>

See how it's all now about her but in a way that actually makes sense for you to be interested in.

 

[vicknick]

Basically, good seductive conversation is about finding out what kind of girl she is, and sharing what kind of guy you are. It is NOT about finding out what the logistics of her day is, it is NOT about discussing the weather, your jobs, bank accounts, or any other irrelevant boring detail. When you follow these useless threads the message that she gets loud and clear is 'this guy doesn't know what tf he is doing' and attraction goes down. You are not her auditor from the Lifestyle Compliance department of the government.

The golden rule with conversation is to make everything boil down to 'what kind of girl are you?' either personality wise or physically.

So let's look at all the bits of information and how you can do that.

Info: She shops by herself
Question: Oh is shopping a sort of therapy for you after a long day?

Info: She works in customer service
Question: Oh so are you a people person?
<if she says yes> oh good cos I'm not <smile playfully> we can start a company then and combine our talents <introduces polarity, she'll probably want to know what your talents are, which you can then be playfully mysterious about>

Info: I drew my eyebrow myself
Statement: It's very luscious <smile> you should be a makeup artist <transition to thread where she can talk about what she likes doing besides customer service>

Info: I stay in xyz part of town
Statement: Oh the bad part of town .. <smile>

Info: she's not wearing contact lenses
Statement: your eyes are a very deep <say it seductively slowly while maintaining eye contact> brown
Statement: It matches your hair <reach out and touch her hair, initiate physical contact>

See how it's all now about her but in a way that actually makes sense for you to be interested in.

So basically the questions I asked her is correct (because I can only know her "Info" after asking her), it's just that the way I respond to her is not relevant to seduction?

You mentioned that "finding out what kind of girl she is", I am not sure what's this purpose in seduction. Does it mean if you find out she doesn't match your standard you won't continue to seduce her? Or you get to know her to inject some emotion in her (like teasing etc)?

 

[Will_V]

So basically the questions I asked her is correct (because I can only know her "Info" after asking her), it's just that the way I respond to her is not relevant to seduction?

Correct, you need some information to get started. I usually start a conversation with 'so what are you up to today' in a very casual/flippant way and the go from there.

Basically as soon as she responds with something you comment on it. The architecture of good conversation is Question/Response/Comment. You ask a question, she responds, you comment on her response.

The good thing about this structure is that a lot of things are overlaid on top of it. For example Question = Tension, Response = Investment, Comment = Release Tension. Repeated tension and release (I believe a term coined by James Marshall who's a great guy to learn from) is incredibly good for building sexual attraction and getting her invested. And these things can cycle forever during a conversation, the same way it goes in bed.

Usually people leave out the last one or cut to another topic because they can't think of anything to say, which means tension never gets resolved and she just ups and leaves or puts a wall up at some point.

You mentioned that "finding out what kind of girl she is", I am not sure what's this purpose in seduction. Does it mean if you find out she doesn't match your standard you won't continue to seduce her? Or you get to know her to inject some emotion in her (like teasing etc)?

Everyone wants to be seen and understood, they are swimming around in a society full of other selfish people who are only concerned with themselves or status hierarchies, everyone yearns to be with someone who just simply enjoys them for who they are. That's why women get dogs and cats, but that's another story ..

Seduction is about giving her an opportunity to reveal herself to you in intimate ways, to be naked both literally and figuratively with someone who she can trust. This is what all the red pill guys get wrong - they think everything is just about status and decimal points of 'value'. But at the end of the day, women want someone who validates them in all the right ways, not someone they validate themselves.

Think about the last intimate conversation you had with someone, where you let loose and talked about stuff you usually wouldn't bring up with anyone. It probably gave you a sense of elation to suddenly be able to be free like that. That's how it is for women when a guy can get her to open up and show herself to him, whether it's her personality, her quirks and tendencies, what she likes to do in bed, etc. That's what makes a guy who can bring it out of her irresistible.

 

[vicknick]

Everyone wants to be seen and understood, they are swimming around in a society full of other selfish people who are only concerned with themselves or status hierarchies, everyone yearns to be with someone who just simply enjoys them for who they are. That's why women get dogs and cats, but that's another story ..

Seduction is about giving her an opportunity to reveal herself to you in intimate ways, to be naked both literally and figuratively with someone who she can trust. This is what all the red pill guys get wrong - they think everything is just about status and decimal points of 'value'. But at the end of the day, women want someone who validates them in all the right ways, not someone they validate themselves.

Think about the last intimate conversation you had with someone, where you let loose and talked about stuff you usually wouldn't bring up with anyone. It probably gave you a sense of elation to suddenly be able to be free like that. That's how it is for women when a guy can get her to open up and show herself to him, whether it's her personality, her quirks and tendencies, what she likes to do in bed, etc. That's what makes a guy who can bring it out of her irresistible.

I see. However, wouldn't this make the girl sees you as a friend. Girls like talking about these things but there is no tension. Is there a way to build tension verbally so that she won't see you as friend (hence I was asking about man-to-woman convo initially)? GC articles explained creating tension physically (such as eye contact, touching etc) but not verbally.

 

[Will_V]

I see. However, wouldn't this make the girl sees you as a friend. Girls like talking about these things but there is no tension. Is there a way to build tension verbally so that she won't see you as friend (hence I was asking about man-to-woman convo initially)? GC articles explained creating tension physically (such as eye contact, touching etc) but not verbally.

The difference between a 'guy friend' and a lover is not as great as one might think. The main difference is that a guy friend is someone who doesn't get sexual and never makes moves, and who also shows a lot of interest in non sexual things with her. Avoid both these and you don't get slotted in there.

Teasing, sexual innuendo, deep eye contact, physical proximity, lingering and intimate touch, this is what makes a lover and not a friend. With these things you spark a courtship rather than a friendship, and escalate from there to sex. It doesn't mean you have to avoid conversations or drinking coffee with her. But you have to show sexual desire and intent for it to ever have a chance of happening.

I suggest you peruse the articles on GC as all this stuff is articulated in much more detail there, such as this one.

 

[vicknick]

Teasing, sexual innuendo, deep eye contact, physical proximity, lingering and intimate touch, this is what makes a lover and not a friend. With these things you spark a courtship rather than a friendship, and escalate from there to sex. It doesn't mean you have to avoid conversations or drinking coffee with her. But you have to show sexual desire and intent for it to ever have a chance of happening.

Even with all these, I have experienced some girls where she just "act" like she don't know and still talk in a friendly vibe on a date, like talking about her career etc. Do I just tell her that "You do know that this is a date right, I am not here to know about your career"

 

[Will_V]

Even with all these, I have experienced some girls where she just "act" like she don't know and still talk in a friendly vibe on a date, like talking about her career etc. Do I just tell her that "You do know that this is a date right, I am not here to know about your career"

The Conversationalist

Conversation and the conversationalist: probably one of the most under-discussed topics in the social arts. What a pity. Conversation is part of the backbone upon which everything related to socializing is built upon, but in the 21st century that’s almost forgotten. You might go so far as to say...

www.girlschase.com

Please read the GC articles as I suggested.

 

[vicknick]

The Conversationalist

Conversation and the conversationalist: probably one of the most under-discussed topics in the social arts. What a pity. Conversation is part of the backbone upon which everything related to socializing is built upon, but in the 21st century that’s almost forgotten. You might go so far as to say...

www.girlschase.com

Please read the GC articles as I suggested.

Thanks for your suggestion. I have read this article before, but I don't see how it relates to my question.

 

[Will_V]

Thanks for your suggestion. I have read this article before, but I don't see how it relates to my question.

Read it again. It explicitly demonstrates an example of a boring conversation, and how to get out of it.

 

[vicknick]

Read it again. It explicitly demonstrates an example of a boring conversation, and how to get out of it.

The article you suggested is about being a good conversationalist. However, my question in this case is not about boring conversation. It's about girl enjoys having conversation with you so much, like telling you about herself, asking you question etc. But when you tried to get sexual with sexual innuendo, deep eye contact, physical proximity etc, they will not respond to it and "act" like they don't know you are getting sexual.

How would you respond to this on a date?

(should have started a new thread since this question is not related to the original)

 

[Will_V]

The article you suggested is about being a good conversationalist. However, my question in this case is not about boring conversation. It's about girl enjoys having conversation with you so much, like telling you about herself, asking you question etc. But when you tried to get sexual with sexual innuendo, deep eye contact, physical proximity etc, they will not respond to it and "act" like they don't know you are getting sexual.

How would you respond to this on a date?

(should have started a new thread since this question is not related to the original)

I'm not sure the conversation is all that great considering that you didn't show a lot of ability to steer conversations yet in the approach example you posted.

Not a critique of you, but don't overestimate your abilities.

If in fact the conversation was warm and intimate and flowing and she isn't letting it get sexual, you need to apply a little more pressure. If she's sitting next to you and not across from you (as it should be on a date), put your hand momentarily on her leg, play with her hair a bit (I sometimes even take a few strands, give a gentle tug and then just smile when she looks at me questioningly). You've got to keep touching her, ramping it up - unless she draws away just keep doing a bit more over time. If she's drawing away, then you pull your attention away, shift away a bit or look around as if something else is more interesting, and ramp up slowly again.

But again, be aware of your current position and don't try to solve problems ahead of where you are. You demonstrated in the first post that you need to vastly improve conversation skills, so focus on that.

 

[vicknick]

I'm not sure the conversation is all that great considering that you didn't show a lot of ability to steer conversations yet in the approach example you posted.

Not a critique of you, but don't overestimate your abilities.

If in fact the conversation was warm and intimate and flowing and she isn't letting it get sexual, you need to apply a little more pressure. If she's sitting next to you and not across from you (as it should be on a date), put your hand momentarily on her leg, play with her hair a bit (I sometimes even take a few strands, give a gentle tug and then just smile when she looks at me questioningly). You've got to keep touching her, ramping it up - unless she draws away just keep doing a bit more over time. If she's drawing away, then you pull your attention away, shift away a bit or look around as if something else is more interesting, and ramp up slowly again.

But again, be aware of your current position and don't try to solve problems ahead of where you are. You demonstrated in the first post that you need to vastly improve conversation skills, so focus on that.

Reason I ask is some girls like to steer the conversation to some normal topics at the very beginning of the date, like talking about their career. Everytime I listen attentively and ask them question about it (just like the article you suggested), they like it and will tell even more about themselves. But in the end, they just see me as a friend.

So I am wondering if I girl like to talk about her career or some normal topic, do you just go with her and talk about it, or do you try to steer to some topic conducive to seduction?

 

[Conquistador]

Reason I ask is some girls like to steer the conversation to some normal topics at the very beginning of the date, like talking about their career.

Sometimes this could be due to a lack of comfort, general nervousness, or just insufficient conversational skills.

 

[Will_V]

Reason I ask is some girls like to steer the conversation to some normal topics at the very beginning of the date, like talking about their career. Everytime I listen attentively and ask them question about it (just like the article you suggested), they like it and will tell even more about themselves. But in the end, they just see me as a friend.

So I am wondering if I girl like to talk about her career or some normal topic, do you just go with her and talk about it, or do you try to steer to some topic conducive to seduction?

Let's break it down a little bit. If a girl steers the conversation toward friendly non-sexual things, what do you think that means? Obviously it means she doesn't see you as a 'sexual prospect' as they say. You are not coming across as sexually attractive.

Now before you look in the mirror and start estimating your 'sexual market value' think about sexual attraction for a minute. What comes before sexual attraction, what is necessary for it to exist?

The main one is trust. She has to trust you, to feel like she understands what kind of guy you are, and to feel like she can spend time with you in a way that's going to feel good through and through.

Now my friend, how do we build trust before sex? It happens during conversation. When she thoroughly enjoys the conversation, when it gets intimate and includes topics that are sexual in nature, she not only trusts you because she enjoys it, but she trusts you because you seem like you know what you are doing in this regard. You are able to open her up to you, and she gets aroused by that.

So what if you can't seem to introduce any sexual topics, or she steers away from them? Two likely reasons. You are not able to lead the conversation and end up spinning your wheels on irrelevant topics, which makes her try to take control and steer toward Friend Zone Land (this is nature's failsafe mechanism for shutting down guys who don't know what they are doing). Or you are simply not able to make her feel comfortable during the conversation, which makes her defensive, and this is tied to not being able to lead (since women don't feel comfortable with guys who cannot lead).

You will be glad to know, these things are all simply reactions, not conscious strategies she's employing. Women bear no grudges during courtship. If you win, you have her, if you lose, too bad. It's up to you to figure it all out. She's happy either way.

So why don't you keep things simple and focus on the core problem: conversations. You have a lot of work to do in this regard. I already gave you a formula: question, reply, comment. I would like to see some field reports of these dates where you are employing this formula so we can see exactly what problem if any continues to exist.

 

[vicknick]

So what if you can't seem to introduce any sexual topics, or she steers away from them? Two likely reasons. You are not able to lead the conversation and end up spinning your wheels on irrelevant topics, which makes her try to take control and steer toward Friend Zone Land (this is nature's failsafe mechanism for shutting down guys who don't know what they are doing). Or you are simply not able to make her feel comfortable during the conversation, which makes her defensive, and this is tied to not being able to lead (since women don't feel comfortable with guys who cannot lead).

So how do you define irrelevant topics?

 

[HoofHearted]

So I am wondering if I girl like to talk about her career or some normal topic, do you just go with her and talk about it, or do you try to steer to some topic conducive to seduction?

IMO this is all just misunderstanding. You don't know what a girl will or won't do until you ask her to do it.

Most people don't know how to converse well (but do happen to stumble into meaningful convo occasionally). You should be aiming for the expression and connection of emotional reality. She's a teacher? What is your attitude about your students? How did you feel about school when you were their age? Big, open ended questions, give her a lot to dig into and give her the floor and most people will start putting in major work.

But that's just connecting. As for sexuality...

There's nuance to this. At a basic level you just need to flirt, and she needs to understand that the interaction is romantic. If you're inexperienced, imo this is all you need to know.

As you continue to interact more and gain more experiences, you notice sexual tension has an ebb and flow. Pacing is important, it needs to go down where sex is possible and not too early. You don't need to get her soaking wet on a walk through the park, a better spot is on the couch at home.

Things to make things tense are silence, nearness, expressions. For example if you're walking with her through the park, arm around her and taking the evening in... and you kind of palm her hip bone, just a bit, like you might if you were giving it to her from behind...

Stuff like that. There are natural opportunities and creativity. You brush past each other and pause, gaze at her like you might kiss, but don't. Hold the line, let her look away and blush, poor girl it's too much for her.

Creativity is a part or this. Ignore most of that for now i think. Flirt with her, be touchy. You don't have to have fuckin hanging out in the air all night, just slight undertones until you get home.

Then grab ass and get her on you and it takes care of itself.

 

[MarioTheDom]

Let's break it down a little bit. If a girl steers the conversation toward friendly non-sexual things, what do you think that means? Obviously it means she doesn't see you as a 'sexual prospect' as they say. You are not coming across as sexually attractive.

Now before you look in the mirror and start estimating your 'sexual market value' think about sexual attraction for a minute. What comes before sexual attraction, what is necessary for it to exist?

The main one is trust. She has to trust you, to feel like she understands what kind of guy you are, and to feel like she can spend time with you in a way that's going to feel good through and through.

Now my friend, how do we build trust before sex? It happens during conversation. When she thoroughly enjoys the conversation, when it gets intimate and includes topics that are sexual in nature, she not only trusts you because she enjoys it, but she trusts you because you seem like you know what you are doing in this regard. You are able to open her up to you, and she gets aroused by that.

So what if you can't seem to introduce any sexual topics, or she steers away from them? Two likely reasons. You are not able to lead the conversation and end up spinning your wheels on irrelevant topics, which makes her try to take control and steer toward Friend Zone Land (this is nature's failsafe mechanism for shutting down guys who don't know what they are doing). Or you are simply not able to make her feel comfortable during the conversation, which makes her defensive, and this is tied to not being able to lead (since women don't feel comfortable with guys who cannot lead).

You will be glad to know, these things are all simply reactions, not conscious strategies she's employing. Women bear no grudges during courtship. If you win, you have her, if you lose, too bad. It's up to you to figure it all out. She's happy either way.

So why don't you keep things simple and focus on the core problem: conversations. You have a lot of work to do in this regard. I already gave you a formula: question, reply, comment. I would like to see some field reports of these dates where you are employing this formula so we can see exactly what problem if any continues to exist.

Exactly what I thought.

If she had romantic interest in you and then the conversation steers towards the non sexual, you are doing something wrong.

Or maybe you were just a "nice guy that could be my emotional tampon" to start with and it's normal that she is shutting down your attempt to sexualize.