How do you add more man-to-woman relationship in a friendly cold approach

[Will_V]

So how do you define irrelevant topics?

I already mentioned this. The idea is to steer as quickly as possible toward topics that are about what kind of girl she is, not informational topics such as what, where, etc which are irrelevant.

Questions that boil down to "are you X kind of girl" are good
Questions that boil down to "what are you doing", "where are you going" etc are irrelevant (unless they are used as a quick stepping stone to the first kind of questions).

Think about if someone random stopped you and said "hey quickly just tell me, where are you going?" you would say "none of your business" and ignore them. You would ask yourself "why does the person want to know this information if they don't even know me? That's weird/creepy."

Now if the person said "hey quickly I just wanted to tell you something I noticed about you" you would stop and at least hear it. Because you want to know what the world thinks of you. So do women. This is the difference. There are many other ways to do the same thing, such as asking what she thinks of something (which indirectly asks her to reveal what kind of person she is and the way she looks at the world), or commenting on something about her with an implication or suggestion that it reveals something about her.

Because at the end of the day, the kind of interest in her that a strange man could have that she would enjoy revolves around "I like what kind of person you are".

I already gave you multiple examples of how I would have created relevant questions (questions that are aimed at getting her to reveal herself, i.e. qualify) from the irrelevant data she provided in the conversation you laid out in your first post. You must turn this irrelevant data into relevant, intimacy-creating questions or comments about her.

Why don't you give me some examples of questions that you think a girl would be fundamentally interested to answer? It doesn't matter at what stage of the interaction or whether you can think of a good way to pose it, just give some examples of questions that could pop up during a conversation that she would enjoy answering.

 

[Will_V]

Exactly what I thought.

If she had romantic interest in you and then the conversation steers towards the non sexual, you are doing something wrong.

Or maybe you were just a "nice guy that could be my emotional tampon" to start with and it's normal that she is shutting down your attempt to sexualize.

Yeah it can be hard to tell, since women will often bury anything that makes them anxious under loads of polite conversation.

 

[vicknick]

Or maybe you were just a "nice guy that could be my emotional tampon" to start with and it's normal that she is shutting down your attempt to sexualize.

That's the thought of some girls when you approached them, or during the beginning of the date. So how do you resolve?

 

[MarioTheDom]

That's the thought of some girls when you approached them, or during the beginning of the date. So how do you resolve?

In my experience, both in person and while coaching, it never happened that when I approached or a guy approaches, she immediately sentences "FRIENDZONE!"
We form an opinion of who is in front of us with the first 3 seconds ( thus, the importance of looks and fitting an archetype) but it's the frame that is flipped during the interaction that leads to this outcome.

If I match with a girl on tinder and we talk about doing bdsm and other adult activities, would be extremely weird if all the sudden she acts "oh let me tell you about this guy that is not answering my messages" don't you think?

The reality is that we all start at the same line, someone get a bonus, but where we end up depends entirely on your interaction.

Did you set up the interaction as a man to woman?
Did you hold frame during her tests?
Did you keep the pressure or you crumbled?
Did you escalate?

I find it very difficult that with all the above being all yes, she insists in putting you into that mental bucket.

Also, if you conceded the frame, that's why she is like this at the beginning of the date, it was never a date to start with.

 

[vicknick]

Why don't you give me some examples of questions that you think a girl would be fundamentally interested to answer? It doesn't matter at what stage of the interaction or whether you can think of a good way to pose it, just give some examples of questions that could pop up during a conversation that she would enjoy answering.

"Why do you like to do this job?"
Her: "I don't know. I just simply choose one."
"I rarely hear girls go mountain climbing. What makes you like climbing so much?"
Her: "Because I feel it's good for health."
"What makes you choose this place that is so far from your hometown to study?"
Her: "I don't know. I feel this place is better?"

Above is some questions I asked before to get to know a girl, and the girl's responses.
Basically, just asking her about "why" to understand her more? However, I feel this is a bit platonic.

 

[vicknick]

Did you set up the interaction as a man to woman?

Thanks for your reply. What kind of topic or interaction do you think is man-to-woman? I tried finding on GC but it's rarely mentioned. Only sexual topic or sexual tension is explained, but are these man-to-woman?

For example, the following is a beginning of a date where I tried to divert to man-woman, but I am not sure if I did correctly:

Her: How's life?
Me: Quite busy dealing with work life balance. How about you?
Her: Actually, is it okay if I ask about your job? Because I am a career-oriented person, and really curious about other people career when meeting someone new.
Me: Sure, I did some stock investing recently
Her: How long have you started?
Me: Actually, I wanted to start last year but due to other reason, I delayed until November.
Her: You learn everything by yourself?
Me: Yes, but I wouldn't say I am an expert.
Her: Actually before that, what do you do?
Me: Before that, I work as engineer. But I kinda not really enjoy it that much.
Her: Workload too much?
Me: Yes. Also in engineering there is mainly guys and old aunties, I rarely see young girls doing construction stuff. (slight attempt divert from career topic to man-woman)
Her: But which engineering major? (more career topic, didn't divert to man-women)
Me: Civil. Like construction stuff. So you can imagine very few girls study this stuff. So at least in this industry less chance to meet new girls. (second attempt to divert to man-woman)
Her: But is it your first priority to meet girls hahaha?
Me: It's added benefit you know
Her: Hahaha. But I can see you are doing good job by approaching girls.
Her: From what time do you start work in engineering (back to career topic)

 

[MarioTheDom]

Basically, just asking her about "why" to understand her more? However, I feel this is a bit platonic.

But keep in mind that "WHY" is the most powerful question to make her qualify, so perhaps you could be a bit more strategic with it's deployment

 

[MarioTheDom]

Thanks for your reply. What kind of topic or interaction do you think is man-to-woman? I tried finding on GC but it's rarely mentioned. Only sexual topic or sexual tension is explained, but are these man-to-woman?

For example, the following is a beginning of a date where I tried to divert to man-woman, but I am not sure if I did correctly:

Her: How's life?
Me: Quite busy dealing with work life balance. How about you?
Her: Actually, is it okay if I ask about your job? Because I am a career-oriented person, and really curious about other people career when meeting someone new.
Me: Sure, I did some stock investing recently
Her: How long have you started?
Me: Actually, I wanted to start last year but due to other reason, I delayed until November.
Her: You learn everything by yourself?
Me: Yes, but I wouldn't say I am an expert.
Her: Actually before that, what do you do?
Me: Before that, I work as engineer. But I kinda not really enjoy it that much.
Her: Workload too much?
Me: Yes. Also in engineering there is mainly guys and old aunties, I rarely see young girls doing construction stuff. (slight attempt divert from career topic to man-woman)
Her: But which engineering major? (more career topic, didn't divert to man-women)
Me: Civil. Like construction stuff. So you can imagine very few girls study this stuff. So at least in this industry less chance to meet new girls. (second attempt to divert to man-woman)
Her: But is it your first priority to meet girls hahaha?
Me: It's added benefit you know
Her: Hahaha. But I can see you are doing good job by approaching girls.
Her: From what time do you start work in engineering (back to career topic)

Very interesting and assuming that you were able to transcript exactly how it went, I can tell you right away the "error"

Let's make one step back though and answer your question: "What kind of topic or interaction do you think is man-to-woman?"

You see, there is no topic that transform any conversation in a man to woman. You could take most conversations, add 2 AI female voices narrated and you wouldn't get the idea it is a date but two girls chatting.

>The Man to woman is set in the premise, meaning, I'm a man trying to seduce you, so the frame and the behaviours attached to the "conversation train" are congruent with this premise. <

It is the man that leads the conversation ( in this case she was keeping the spotlight on you with all her questions and make you qualify ) and the woman qualifies
The man speaks with a deep and sexy voice that triggers an emotional response in the woman.
The man shares a story about him that increase the familiarity and comfort with the women showing that he is not a robot or just a douchebag - she might have a chance to tame the beast afterall

You see, in your specific case, the premise here is that she is leading and making you qualify to her, while it should be the opposite.

Not that answering questions is wrong, absolutely, but who makes the questions holds the power

And that's why when you tried to divert the conversation, she teased and shit tested you, twice.

I hope it makes sense

 

[vicknick]

You see, in your specific case, the premise here is that she is leading and making you qualify to her, while it should be the opposite.

Not that answering questions is wrong, absolutely, but who makes the questions holds the power

And that's why when you tried to divert the conversation, she teased and shit tested you, twice.

I hope it makes sense

So in this case, whenever a girl tried to lead the conversation, you will just take the lead back by asking her question to get her qualify?

 

[MarioTheDom]

Generically speaking, yes

Technically speaking, you shouldn't be in the point where she takes the lead.

 

[Will_V]

"Why do you like to do this job?"
Her: "I don't know. I just simply choose one."
"I rarely hear girls go mountain climbing. What makes you like climbing so much?"
Her: "Because I feel it's good for health."
"What makes you choose this place that is so far from your hometown to study?"
Her: "I don't know. I feel this place is better?"

Above is some questions I asked before to get to know a girl, and the girl's responses.
Basically, just asking her about "why" to understand her more? However, I feel this is a bit platonic.

These are all good questions and the replies are what might be expected.

Remember the format is question/reply/comment. The comment is the most important part, because that is where you lead the conversation in the direction you want it to go. Anybody can ask a question, but to come up with a comment requires both creativity and intent. A few good comments can turn a conversation from boring to sexy.

Now for each of these three replies she gave, give me a comment you could make that makes the conversation man-to-woman. Doesn't matter if it's a bit rough, just give it a shot.

 

[vicknick]

These are all good questions and the replies are what might be expected.

Remember the format is question/reply/comment. The comment is the most important part, because that is where you lead the conversation in the direction you want it to go. Anybody can ask a question, but to come up with a comment requires both creativity and intent. A few good comments can turn a conversation from boring to sexy.

Now for each of these three replies she gave, give me a comment you could make that makes the conversation man-to-woman. Doesn't matter if it's a bit rough, just give it a shot.

Me: Why do you like to do this job?
Her: I don't know. I just simply choose one.
Me: So you are a more intuitive girl who just go with whatever makes you happy?

Hard to think of man-to-woman for this one. My usual response would be "Hmm.. so your parent force you to apply for this job?", or just skip topic.


Me: I rarely hear girls go mountain climbing. What makes you like climbing so much?
Her: Because I feel it's good for health.
Me: I like girls who do this kind of sports, it means they have good stamina (wink).

Topic is related to body and health, so I tried to sexualize a bit but still maintain normal conversation. However, her possible response might be "Nah, my stamina is not that good actually"


Me: What makes you choose this place that is so far from your hometown to study?
Her: I don't know. I feel this place is better?
Me: Or are guys from your hometown not good enough for you, that's why you come here to find a new one (wink)?
Or
Me: As in the guys here are better? Oh, I get what you mean now (wink).

My usual response for girls who come from abroad. Another response would be "Yeah, I also like this place, a lot of fun things to do such as... ", but that's too boring and without man-to-woman.

 

[TheEcho]

Going to hijack this slightly to test my ability to respond, as I am not consistently commenting as effectively as I should be:

Me: Why do you like doing this job?
Her: I don't know, I just simply chose it
Me: Ah, a go with-the-flow kind of girl, I like it.
Me: Curious... what's your sign?

Me: I rarely hear girls go mountain climbing. Why do you like climbing so much?
Her: Because it feels good for my health.
Me: Trying to stay fit and firm AND you're adventurous? I like it
Me: What got you into mountaineering?

Me: Why did you chose a place so far from your hometown to study?
Her: I don't know. I like the feel of this place better? (this ones a bit tricky...)
Me: Someone's definitely pretty adventurous, that's cool you went out on your own.
Me: Enjoying the freedom?

Okay... roast me

 

[Will_V]

@vicknick OK there's plenty of room to improve here.

Me: Why do you like to do this job?
Her: I don't know. I just simply choose one.
Me: So you are a more intuitive girl who just go with whatever makes you happy?

This is not too bad and has the right idea, but it's a bit of a hail mary. She could simply say 'Yeah!' and you'd be wondering what to say next. Everyone wants to be happy right?

I would respond to it with a tease like "did you write them all on little pieces of paper and just pull one out of a hat?' with a smile and a poke in the ribs.

The reason is that she's not investing enough and if you go all in trying to do a cold read after she basically says 'idgaf' it makes you look tryhard.

Something to remember with girls is that what you say doesn't even have to make sense as long as it has the right vibe. You can make nonsensical comments and just stand there smiling at her teasingly while she tries to figure it out. Especially when you are making fun of a boring response.

Hard to think of man-to-woman for this one. My usual response would be "Hmm.. so your parent force you to apply for this job?", or just skip topic.

Could be ok if you did it as a tease, but it's a bit random (unless she's asian I guess..).

Me: I rarely hear girls go mountain climbing. What makes you like climbing so much?
Her: Because I feel it's good for health.
Me: I like girls who do this kind of sports, it means they have good stamina (wink).

Too direct. You could get away with it if you had the right vibe but it's a bit forced, you give too much unwarranted validation and you didn't really engage with her response.

I would say something like 'you like to take care of yourself hm?' and glance her up and down. It's good because although it's gotten a little sexual you can start sort of fractionate to health related things like meditation, massage, saunas, whatever. This would help build a connection and commonality and control the tension.

Topic is related to body and health, so I tried to sexualize a bit but still maintain normal conversation. However, her possible response might be "Nah, my stamina is not that good actually"

When she refuses your frame you have to tease my friend. Make fun of her in a lighthearted way. Here you could take a step toward her then rock back and say something like 'how many hours?' and just smile at her with eye contact while she wonders how many hours of what.

Me: What makes you choose this place that is so far from your hometown to study?
Her: I don't know. I feel this place is better?
Me: Or are guys from your hometown not good enough for you, that's why you come here to find a new one (wink)?
Or
Me: As in the guys here are better? Oh, I get what you mean now (wink).

Way too hard attempt to self qualify. Forget about the idea of selling yourself, you're seducing her with your presence and vibe not some kind of male competitive qualifications.

I would frame it as her wanting to get away and experience something new. I'd say something like: "I know the feeling, sometimes you just want to go somewhere new and explore things" <slight smile + tension>.

See how your responses are like you're answering exam questions, whereas if you just play around and focus on growing the vibe and steering things gently toward more intimate topics you don't need to worry so much about saying the right thing or trying to qualify yourself.

You do need to build commonality and show interest in topics that mean a lot to her while increasing sexual tension, but you do not need to prove that you are this or that in order to bridge the gap between you. You are a funnel for her emotions, not an object that you're trying to get her to take.

 

[Will_V]

Going to hijack this slightly to test my ability to respond, as I am not consistently commenting as effectively as I should be:

Me: Why do you like doing this job?
Her: I don't know, I just simply chose it
Me: Ah, a go with-the-flow kind of girl, I like it.
Me: Curious... what's your sign?

Smooth response, but again you're qualifying her with almost no investment on her part. Don't be afraid of putting a little pressure on and teasing her.

I often ask when she says her job 'oh is that fun?' in a slightly unengaged way like I'm ever so slightly disappointed. It usually starts making her qualify a bit as being a fun girl. You don't want to be the 'yes man'.

Me: I rarely hear girls go mountain climbing. Why do you like climbing so much?
Her: Because it feels good for my health.
Me: Trying to stay fit and firm AND you're adventurous? I like it
Me: What got you into mountaineering?

That's not engaging with her response. You're basically asking her another question as if she hadn't replied. Gotta grab the 'health' thread and start reeling it out a bit.

Me: Why did you chose a place so far from your hometown to study?
Her: I don't know. I like the feel of this place better? (this ones a bit tricky...)
Me: Someone's definitely pretty adventurous, that's cool you went out on your own.
Me: Enjoying the freedom?

Okay... roast me

Although this is qualifying a bit too much maybe, it's still something she will probably feel proud to hear and heads in a good direction (independence, free from constraints etc). But it's a little too overdone imo. Just pull the adventure thread gently along.

It's also a good opportunity for establishing frame with statements rather than questions. Some of the best guys out there do a lot of 'yeah, sometimes you abc and you just wanna xyz' type comments because it helps build a concept that isn't immediately about you or her, so she can easily open up and vibe with it with no pressure, but it sets the tone. And you always want to use suggestive statements rather than questions when possible as it gives you a lot more opportunity to lead and weave the frame you want.

 

[TheEcho]

How about these:
“Hmm… are you in college or something?” (Bit skeptical)

I honestly wouldn’t want to be around a loser lol, though let me know if there's a better way to filter this.

"That's nice, getting out in nature does wonders for your mind and body"

Could you just leave it hanging for a second to see if she asks you back?

"Ahh, adventurous... You grow up and that urge to enjoy your own life hits. I get that."

Starting to question my conversating ability in regards to progressing things sexually lol. Maybe this is my biggest issue with getting girls out currently Feel like I used to automatically fall into a good groove sometimes and naturally tease my way through, but now need to build a solid overall approach to the topics.

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

Smooth response, but again you're qualifying her with almost no investment on her part. Don't be afraid of putting a little pressure on and teasing her.

I often ask when she says her job 'oh is that fun?' in a slightly unengaged way like I'm ever so slightly disappointed. It usually starts making her qualify a bit as being a fun girl. You don't want to be the 'yes man'.



That's not engaging with her response. You're basically asking her another question as if she hadn't replied. Gotta grab the 'health' thread and start reeling it out a bit.



Although this is qualifying a bit too much maybe, it's still something she will probably feel proud to hear and heads in a good direction (independence, free from constraints etc). But it's a little too overdone imo. Just pull the adventure thread gently along.

It's also a good opportunity for establishing frame with statements rather than questions. Some of the best guys out there do a lot of 'yeah, sometimes you abc and you just wanna xyz' type comments because it helps build a concept that isn't immediately about you or her, so she can easily open up and vibe with it with no pressure, but it sets the tone. And you always want to use suggestive statements rather than questions when possible as it gives you a lot more opportunity to lead and weave the frame you want.

Nice nice

Quite clearly conversational tips, practices etc are useful in the forum

Did you learn these from girls chase blog?

 

[Will_V]

The girls chase articles cover pretty much everything in seduction, at least that I know of, and I learned a lot from there and various other places. And I still have plenty to learn myself.
I'm giving my 2c here because I think there's a bit of a lack of engagement with actual examples on the forums in general. That's why I asked for examples and gave my own, because that way you have to start being creative rather than simply trading theoretical knowledge. But all this information is already on the blog if you search a bit.

 

[Will_V]

How about these:
“Hmm… are you in college or something?” (Bit skeptical)

I honestly wouldn’t want to be around a loser lol, though let me know if there's a better way to filter this.

In my experience, it's good during seduction to make a woman feel strong and independent in relation to the world, and submissive in relation to you. So I usually would try to avoid anything that might make her feel too not-up-to-scratch, like guessing that she was in college when she's not.

"That's nice, getting out in nature does wonders for your mind and body"

Could you just leave it hanging for a second to see if she asks you back?

Very much so. I usually steer toward things like nature and meditation because it gives you the opportunity to stand there and talk in very sensual language. Since I sail a lot I like to tell her about how I like it when the sails are hard and full of wind, and the boat is leaning right over etc etc.

Guys are often criticized for either talking about themselves with women or not contributing enough, these kind of 'painting picture' opportunities are very good for having her enjoy listening to you and following your lead.

"Ahh, adventurous... You grow up and that urge to enjoy your own life hits. I get that."

I get a feeling you're a bit too quick to try and qualify her directly. Your attention and vibe and body language can do most of the qualification while the content of what you say can mostly just lead from point to point, so it sounds like you're just talking about stuff together but she can feel your arousal/response to different things that she says. That creates a lot more ambiguity and tension and lets you draw out the topic a lot more.

For example sometimes when she says something I like, I'll stand there and just look deep in her eyes with pleasure and curiosity and let the silence build, and then stoke the conversation again after a few seconds when she's bursting with tension. That's going to leave way more of an impression than you telling her you like XYZ.

At least that's how I like to do it.

Starting to question my conversating ability in regards to progressing things sexually lol. Maybe this is my biggest issue with getting girls out currently Feel like I used to automatically fall into a good groove sometimes and naturally tease my way through, but now need to build a solid overall approach to the topics.

 

[TheEcho]

I get a feeling you're a bit too quick to try and qualify her directly. Your attention and vibe and body language can do most of the qualification while the content of what you say can mostly just lead from point to point, so it sounds like you're just talking about stuff together but she can feel your arousal/response to different things that she says. That creates a lot more ambiguity and tension and lets you draw out the topic a lot more.

For example sometimes when she says something I like, I'll stand there and just look deep in her eyes with pleasure and curiosity and let the silence build, and then stoke the conversation again after a few seconds when she's bursting with tension. That's going to leave way more of an impression than you telling her you like XYZ.

At least that's how I like to do it.

Really like that shift to not qualifying explicitly. Pretty sure I read articles about that, but it hadn't clicked. Need to be on top of that. Thanks for all this great insight!