How do you get the absolute stunners?

[Warped Mindless]

I don't have an issue with that, you're being consistent.

If you are saying that 9/10 is entirely subjective, just do the same as with sevens, then that's fine, because you're keeping it consistent.

Here's what chase said and I was trying to say:



Turns out we agree. This is what I was trying to say and Chase admits it. If you believe you've dated a series of stunners, my opinion is that your experience should match that of Chase.

Again, I respect the worldview where the only difference between tens and sevens is personal taste. But I personally lean more toward it not being 100% subjective. And I also claim that if you're "constantly dating one ten after the other" and they never experience these offers and experiences Chase illustrated, you might want to consider this point, that's all.

I don’t disagree with the main point I believe you to be making but it does bring up something else…

There are lots of wealthy men worldwide.

Looks are subjective enough that one man’s “7” is another man’s “10.”

It therefore stands to reason that any cute girl could be considered a “10” if we go by the “offered something by wealthy men” angle.

You and I make look at a woman and consider her a “7” but if we agree that looks have a certain amount of subjectivity to them, then we can likeagree that at least 25% of wealthy men would likely see her as their exact type and find her to be a 10. As there are a lot of wealthy men out there, even a quarter of them equates to thousands of wealthy men who could hit her up and offer her something.

Of course, you take that 7 and add makeup, filters, lighting, photoshop, all the shit that many of them do before uploading to social media…. Now she’s a “10” and will have thousands of more possible wealthy men interested in her.

Truth is, ANY decent girl can use her looks to make money if she wants too. This is why I find the whole 1 - 10 scale kinda silly.

From personal experience I have been with and known some cute girls (let’s call them 7s) who made serious money from their looks. Combination of modeling, onlyfans, stripping, escorting, being a sugar baby, etc.

On the other hand, one of the hottest women I have ever met in my life is a nurse in a small town who didn’t use social media. The number of “wealthy” men she has access to who could offer her anything is extremely low.

 

[bgwh]

I don’t disagree with the main point I believe you to be making but it does bring up something else…

There are lots of wealthy men worldwide.

Looks are subjective enough that one man’s “7” is another man’s “10.”

It therefore stands to reason that any cute girl could be considered a “10” if we go by the “offered something by wealthy men” angle.

You and I make look at a woman and consider her a “7” but if we agree that looks have a certain amount of subjectivity to them, then we can likeagree that at least 25% of wealthy men would likely see her as their exact type and find her to be a 10. As there are a lot of wealthy men out there, even a quarter of them equates to thousands of wealthy men who could hit her up and offer her something.

Of course, you take that 7 and add makeup, filters, lighting, photoshop, all the shit that many of them do before uploading to social media…. Now she’s a “10” and will have thousands of more possible wealthy men interested in her.

Truth is, ANY decent girl can use her looks to make money if she wants too. This is why I find the whole 1 - 10 scale kinda silly.

From personal experience I have been with and known some cute girls (let’s call them 7s) who made serious money from their looks. Combination of modeling, onlyfans, stripping, escorting, being a sugar baby, etc.

On the other hand, one of the hottest women I have ever met in my life is a nurse in a small town who didn’t use social media. The number of “wealthy” men she has access to who could offer her anything is extremely low.

You're saying things I said myself, but in the context of disagreeing with me, when we don't actually disagree.

- It's not about "wealthy men". It's about "men with options", it could be celebs, DJs, president of sorority...
- Of course they have different tastes. I said the exact same thing in earlier post.

She's not going to be a 10 to every "man with options" because they have different tastes. However, if she's not a ten to ANY such men, it makes one wonder. I keep saying "ANY" and people read "every". I keep saying "OR" and people read "AND".

p.s. I already tackled the only fans, so I'm repeating myself because people respond to me, without reading what I wrote

In my very first post on this I said the exact same thing you're saying. I specifically said excluding sexual work like OF, because even sixes can make a bunch of money selling sex. However, no six is gonna make a decent income being asked to just stand at the door of fancy events and smile at guests.

 

[bgwh]

That brings up another point, because a lot of people got offended about "why should we care what guys with options pick". A lot of people had an emotional reaction to this, but that's exactly why I bring up being honest with yourself.

The truth is that when you don't have options, you tend to lie to yourself and exaggerate the looks of the girls you can get. I know that the girls I referred to as "tens" when I was in high school became "eights" when I got more confidence and attention from hotter girls. Then when I got some status and got attention and lays from even hotter girls, the previous eights became the new sixes.

There is a coping mechanism which is part of our brain that makes us adjust our scale to what we can realistically get when we don't have many options. This is why comparing yourself to guys who have options is a good way to challenge yourself, and see if you're not settling. It's better to increase your optionality than lie to yourself that your current level is the highest level.

 

[Warped Mindless]

That brings up another point, because a lot of people got offended about why we should look at what guys with options pick. A lot of people had an emotional reaction to this, but that's exactly why I bring up being honest with yourself.

The truth is that when you don't have options, you tend to lie to yourself and exaggerate the looks of the girls you can get. I know that the girls I referred to as "tens" when I was in high school became "eights" when I got more confidence and attention from hotter girls. Then when I got some status and got attention and lays from even hotter girls, the previous eights became the new sixes.

There is a coping mechanism which is part of our brain that makes us adjust our scale to what we can realistically get when we don't have many options. This is why comparing yourself to guys who have options is a good way to challenge yourself, and see if you're not settling. It's better to increase your optionality than lie to yourself that your current level is the highest level.

There was a “joke” on an older forum that in the PUA community any skinny blonde chick is automatically a 9.

 

[Bismarck]

Lots of interesting points here.

I think the main takeaways are:

1. beyond a few details like those listed by Will_V, looks are subjective
2. while beautiful or stunning women in big cities may have access to lots of offers from rich men, the same cannot probably be said for those born and still living in small towns and villages
3. for me personally, a “stunner” is a girl who is pretty / her face looks good from all angles, but also has a fit body - however this still only accounts for her looks, then there’s still the personality aspects to round it up

As for “how to get” stunners:

1. confidence in yourself (or “love of self,” believing in your self-worth and value as a man - it helps if you can convey real value)
2. having a purpose / being on a mission
3. focusing on approaching always the hottest women
4. looks maxxing (to increase your pool of social frame acceptable girls, esp. as you get into your 30s and you still want early 20s girls, but also to increase your self-confidence)
5. game (knowing how to move forward, set frames, connect with her, calibrated persistence, eyes on the prize)
6. tight fundamentals (includes looks but also style, posture, EC, kino, etc.)

An I missing something?

 

[Water_Polo]

Lots of dudes skirting the issue on this one. Trying hard to avoid the subject as to not answer the question. Wanted to sign up on this forum just to drop in some examples of what "stunners" might consist of. Fully prepared for dudes to chime in with "see, looks are subject, these aren't stunners, I fuck hotter girls like this 8 days a week!" Sure bud, you might not like these girls, but I can guarantee you that none of them would lose sleep over your disinterest. Looks might be subjective, but when it comes to desirability, it really isn't debatable because when you're at the height of desirability you are place in that top percentage by the opposite sex. You're democratically voted into it, not universally, just by comparative majority. Hard to find examples so this is the best I could do, trying to find a wide range of taste, there is subjectivity to it but to a relative degree.

---

This at least a more or less descriptive look at what generally constitutes the top of what you might come across in your city for the most attractive looking women you'll see. Realistically though the girls who are the most unspokenly wanted by men are probably a bit more on the younger side than what I'd want to feature here, you know like 18... or so, the girls here are probably closer to 20 something. Don't want to be posting potential jailbait pics.

Anyway. In terms of how, even if you're running some type of status thing there are examples of what that looks like, Bilzerian is the obvious dude. IMO, not really running a train full of stunners, seems like a lot of mid girls with a few hotties sprinkled in here or there. I think in pua circles though there is a bit of a cope going on about how much status doesn't account for much, talking about how nice apartments and cars aren't great for attraction. Not so sure personally, can definitely see a big difference in terms of how much more attention I'd get in a hot car vs an old hunk of shit. I think when it comes to cars guys equate expensive with status when it should be more about sexy vs boring which is something completely different.

Trying to pull the hottest girls depends somewhat on what you mean though. For me personally I just want to fuck teens, they're the hottest to me, as long as it's legal I'm good. It's something else entirely to try to pull age appropriate stunners vs 18 year olds when you're north of 35. Can't run volume unless you're doing that online, or you don't care about looking like a loser getting a rep for being creepy.

There are many ways to play the game, but I wouldn't realistically expect to find actual ways of pulling this off from game forums or blogs. You'll just get a lot of the same horseshit about solid fundamentals, confidence, vocal projection, body language, push pull lines, kino, breaking rapport, etc. Good luck. Trying looking at a guy who ran both classical pua and status simultaneously, like Neil Strauss, who did all of that mystery method stuff combined with his Corvette, big house, million dollar income, celebrity social circle career jobs, and unlimited free time to game 24/7. How consistently do you think this guy could fuck a stunner? Imo, there's a reason why in pickup videos the girls look the way they do, and it's not due to being limited by a lack of talent so much as it is about running into a brick wall.

 

[Wick]

Lots of dudes skirting the issue on this one. Trying hard to avoid the subject as to not answer the question. Wanted to sign up on this forum just to drop in some examples of what "stunners" might consist of. Fully prepared for dudes to chime in with "see, looks are subject, these aren't stunners, I fuck hotter girls like this 8 days a week!" Sure bud, you might not like these girls, but I can guarantee you that none of them would lose sleep over your disinterest. Looks might be subjective, but when it comes to desirability, it really isn't debatable because when you're at the height of desirability you are place in that top percentage by the opposite sex. You're democratically voted into it, not universally, just by comparative majority. Hard to find examples so this is the best I could do, trying to find a wide range of taste, there is subjectivity to it but to a relative degree.

---

This at least a more or less descriptive look at what generally constitutes the top of what you might come across in your city for the most attractive looking women you'll see. Realistically though the girls who are the most unspokenly wanted by men are probably a bit more on the younger side than what I'd want to feature here, you know like 18... or so, the girls here are probably closer to 20 something. Don't want to be posting potential jailbait pics.

Anyway. In terms of how, even if you're running some type of status thing there are examples of what that looks like, Bilzerian is the obvious dude. IMO, not really running a train full of stunners, seems like a lot of mid girls with a few hotties sprinkled in here or there. I think in pua circles though there is a bit of a cope going on about how much status doesn't account for much, talking about how nice apartments and cars aren't great for attraction. Not so sure personally, can definitely see a big difference in terms of how much more attention I'd get in a hot car vs an old hunk of shit. I think when it comes to cars guys equate expensive with status when it should be more about sexy vs boring which is something completely different.

Trying to pull the hottest girls depends somewhat on what you mean though. For me personally I just want to fuck teens, they're the hottest to me, as long as it's legal I'm good. It's something else entirely to try to pull age appropriate stunners vs 18 year olds when you're north of 35. Can't run volume unless you're doing that online, or you don't care about looking like a loser getting a rep for being creepy.

There are many ways to play the game, but I wouldn't realistically expect to find actual ways of pulling this off from game forums or blogs. You'll just get a lot of the same horseshit about solid fundamentals, confidence, vocal projection, body language, push pull lines, kino, breaking rapport, etc. Good luck. Trying looking at a guy who ran both classical pua and status simultaneously, like Neil Strauss, who did all of that mystery method stuff combined with his Corvette, big house, million dollar income, celebrity social circle career jobs, and unlimited free time to game 24/7. How consistently do you think this guy could fuck a stunner? Imo, there's a reason why in pickup videos the girls look the way they do, and it's not due to being limited by a lack of talent so much as it is about running into a brick wall.

I wouldn’t be interested in any of the women you posted pics of… two of them are 8s to me, although the one has so much make up on it’s a turn off. It’s funny how subjective this topic is!

I don’t think Neil had much game, he was a good marketer and sold a lot of books. Didn’t he end up with an average wife who left him?

The game is NOT attracting attention. That is girl game. The way to get stunners is to take action and make things happen.

Lots of interesting points here.

I think the main takeaways are:

1. beyond a few details like those listed by Will_V, looks are subjective
2. while beautiful or stunning women in big cities may have access to lots of offers from rich men, the same cannot probably be said for those born and still living in small towns and villages
3. for me personally, a “stunner” is a girl who is pretty / her face looks good from all angles, but also has a fit body - however this still only accounts for her looks, then there’s still the personality aspects to round it up

As for “how to get” stunners:

1. confidence in yourself (or “love of self,” believing in your self-worth and value as a man - it helps if you can convey real value)
2. having a purpose / being on a mission
3. focusing on approaching always the hottest women
4. looks maxxing (to increase your pool of social frame acceptable girls, esp. as you get into your 30s and you still want early 20s girls, but also to increase your self-confidence)
5. game (knowing how to move forward, set frames, connect with her, calibrated persistence, eyes on the prize)
6. tight fundamentals (includes looks but also style, posture, EC, kino, etc.)

An I missing something?

I would argue that looks maxing is overrated. It’s definitely a good idea to take care of your health and image, and I think it does help, however, especially with the small town/homebody types, I’ve seen very average guys with very pretty girls. Action and emotional stimulation/connection I think are the main things. Approach, lead, make moves fast, connect emotionally, that’s what’s done it for me and kept them around.

Again, I’m not saying don’t work on fundamentals, but pointing that out.

 

[gameboy]

For me, the whole HB1-10 scale serves only one purpose: To convey the amount of attraction I'm feeling for a particular girl, in a particular moment. There's no such thing as objective 8s or 10s.

So when I say, for example, that one night I approached a 10 and laid her that same night, it means I felt she was a 10 the moment I approached her. Everyone else is free to think otherwise.

I also may or may not feel she's still a 10 once I get to know her better, see her naked, or get into an LTR with the girl. However, what other guys think of her wouldn't influence my judgement. Maybe the other guy is into big-ass chicks and I prefer them petite.

The only exception I can think of would be if someone points out something that I was blind to before (e.g. if she lies or cheats). But even then, I'd still say that looks-wise, I felt she was a 10 the moment I saw or approached her.

Anyway, too mach KJing already... time to get out and approach some more!

 

[Wick]

Personal theory here:

I’ve thought this for a while, that women actually just want a “normal” guy. But their definition of normal is a decently masculine man, who makes decisions and takes the lead, gets stuff done and has a life, relatable but a little more interesting than her, who dresses nice enough to be seen in public with, and excite her imagination. Basically just a little bit better than her, and similar. Surprisingly this has little to do with looks, if she is not very status conscious.

When guys looksmax and try really hard to impress they actually take themselves out of this category. Then you start getting the interest of women who try hard to impress and looksmax themselves, these often are not natural beauties, they have a hard time with relationships because they deal with super ambitious men, and can get them to commit, and they skip out on developing personality because in these circles the men just want to fuck anyway.

The real high value beauties don’t even get into that game, are interesting souls, have healthy relationships with normal guys who count themselves lucky, but are solid enough to not put her on a pedestal.

Im making sweeping generalizations here, but I feel like it has some truth to it. Still verifying it myself.

 

[Wick]

For me, the whole HB1-10 scale serves only one purpose: To convey the amount of attraction I'm feeling for a particular girl, in a particular moment. There's no such thing as objective 8s or 10s.

So when I say, for example, that one night I approached a 10 and laid her that same night, it means I felt she was a 10 the moment I approached her. Everyone else is free to think otherwise.

I also may or may not feel she's still a 10 once I get to know her better, see her naked, or get into an LTR with the girl. However, what other guys think of her wouldn't influence my judgement. Maybe the other guy is into big-ass chicks and I prefer them petite.

The only exception I can think of would be if someone points out something that I was blind to before (e.g. if she lies or cheats). But even then, I'd still say that looks-wise, I felt she was a 10 the moment I saw or approached her.

Anyway, too mach KJing already... time to get out and approach some more!

Agree with that. I try to stay away from "shes a ten" because it actually can mess with you mentally, instead of treating her like just any girl, you start treating her like a "ten" which is going to trigger her "oh here comes another one" response.

I just let my body tell me. I'll see cute girls on the street, and think, "yeah she's cute" and let them pass on their way... but once in a while my body reacts and i KNOW i must meet her.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

I also may or may not feel she's still a 10 once I get to know her better, see her naked, or get into an LTR with the girl.

I'd say it can be even more extreme than that. Multiple times I've seen girls, thought they are really beautiful, then they open their mouths and something feels off.

It could be their voice, it could be their facial expressions, it could be the way their teeth look, it could be what words they are using while talking and more.

I also remember a situation where I met a girl, I instantly felt "oh my god she is so pretty", and then we went for a date and the moment I saw her again I honestly felt: "Wait, wasn't she hotter than this?".

I'm not completely sure about it, but apart from clothes and makeup, maybe when they are ovulating their whole energy changes, how they move, how they act, how they smell, which makes them more attractive, while at other times they may look quite uninteresting.

In the end though I agree that the most important thing is going after the girls you want, the moment you want them.

And the only way to eventually get them is to treat them like normal girls and not like special beauties.

That was the point of my first message in this thread as well, you keep going after them, meeting them, making moves on them, and gradually you become more familiar with them. At that point you won't even care about whether they are stunners or not.

You will be running game on them like you do on most women you are already familiar with, by only calibrating to their specific archetypes.

 

[Water_Polo]

I wouldn’t be interested in any of the women you posted pics of… two of them are 8s to me, although the one has so much make up on it’s a turn off. It’s funny how subjective this topic is!

I don’t think Neil had much game, he was a good marketer and sold a lot of books. Didn’t he end up with an average wife who left him?

Feel free to post pics of your own, you know, you're ideal version of a 10. I know you won't. This whole board is just dude's skirting the issue and being vague while saying a whole lot of nothing. Not saying any of those girls are a "10". I've never seen a "10" in my life. I'm saying this is what guys would consider to be upper level in terms of looks in general for what they can realistically see in their city. And I don't believe for a minute that you're consistently sleeping with better looking girls whatsoever. Every girl you guys fuck is uglier than this, stop capping bro.

And yeah Neil wasn't sleeping with girls as hot as that. None of the PUAs are. That's the point. If you think any of the guys who post on this forum are getting girls of that caliber I'm going to have to stop taking you seriously. Even the pros who game 24/7 and charge guys thousands of dollars for bootcamps aren't getting girls like that. Show me one pua video where they're picking up a bonafide stunner. Go ahead, just one.

 

[bgwh]

Feel free to post pics of your own, you know, you're ideal version of a 10. I know you won't. This whole board is just dude's skirting the issue and being vague while saying a whole lot of nothing. Not saying any of those girls are a "10". I've never seen a "10" in my life. I'm saying this is what guys would consider to be upper level in terms of looks in general for what they can realistically see in their city. And I don't believe for a minute that you're consistently sleeping with better looking girls whatsoever. Every girl you guys fuck is uglier than this, stop capping bro.

And yeah Neil wasn't sleeping with girls as hot as that. None of the PUAs are. That's the point. If you think any of the guys who post on this forum are getting girls of that caliber I'm going to have to stop taking you seriously. Even the pros who game 24/7 and charge guys thousands of dollars for bootcamps aren't getting girls like that. Show me one pua video where they're picking up a bonafide stunner. Go ahead, just one.

That was the motivation behind my comments. All the pua gurus on YouTube are getting crap posting their girls. I've genuinelly never seen a pua get girls of a level where I thought to myself "omfg how did he get a girl of that caliber, wow I gotta learn from him".

I mean if pua is marketed as a way to increase your close rate, that's fine. But many advertise if as a way of getting hotter girls.

 

[Train]

And yeah Neil wasn't sleeping with girls as hot as that. None of the PUAs are. That's the point. If you think any of the guys who post on this forum are getting girls of that caliber I'm going to have to stop taking you seriously. Even the pros who game 24/7 and charge guys thousands of dollars for bootcamps aren't getting girls like that. Show me one pua video where they're picking up a bonafide stunner. Go ahead, just one.

So then who is banging these stunners and how?

I don't mean this facetiously, genuinely curious if you're saying it's not PUA nor dudes like Bilzerian

 

[bgwh]

So then who is banging these stunners and how?

I don't mean this facetiously, genuinely curious if you're saying it's not PUA nor dudes like Bilzerian

Social circle, rich guys, celebs, male models, surgeons etc... mostly social circle.

 

[Warped Mindless]

Sounds like you guys are on the wrong forum.

Perhaps the redpill morons would take you? Their forums might be more up your alley.

 

[Warped Mindless]

Show me one pua video where they're picking up a bonafide stunner. Go ahead, just one.

Do we get to take the women and apply photoshop, filters, perfect lighting, perfect makeup, and other edits to their pics before posting them so they can be like the fictitious pics you posted?

It’s like a strawman: Doll up a woman using every trick in the books (photoshop, filters, etc) and then complain that no one gets “women like these!” Those women don’t look like that either lol.

Social circle, rich guys, celebs, male models, surgeons etc... mostly social circle.

Social circle? So if you get into social circles that have hot women in them do you automatically get these women? Like does every girl in that social circle get to fuck the stunners in that circle? Or maybe the guys in these social circle needs some sort of strategy to get these women to want to fuck them… maybe kinda like game?

Rich guys? I know a lot of rich guys (I’m a business consultant) and most of them aren’t fucking stunners unless they pay for it.

Celebs? I mean, lots of male celebs with with non stunner GFs. But like, who’s fucking the super hot celebrity women? I’ll give you this one, it’s mostly other celebs in their social circle because it’s pretty hard to cold approach celebrity women due to 1) How rare they are 2) Their bodyguards don’t like random men coming up to them. But how do these stunner celebs decide what male celebs to fuck? Maybe the ones with better game?

Male models? Now we have to be careful with this one. Most “male models” are decent looking dudes with photoshop, lighting, makeup (yes for men too), etc just like most female models.

 

[Water_Polo]

Do we get to take the women and apply photoshop, filters, perfect lighting, perfect makeup, and other edits to their pics before posting them so they can be like the fictitious pics you posted?

It’s like a strawman: Doll up a woman using every trick in the books (photoshop, filters, etc) and then complain that no one gets “women like these!” Those women don’t look like that either lol.

Cool, so we've gone from "these girls are barely 8s" to "these girls are so hot they're not even realistic". How convenient. You honestly never see girls this hot in person? Generally people tend to look better in motion than they do in still frames. Even with filters and whatever, imo hot girls look better in video and real life than some suped up picture. Yeah, girls who are a 6 can fake being a 8 or 9 in pictures but it's not like girls who are an 8 or a 9 don't actually exist in the real world. After all the decades the pua industry has been around for you'd expect there to at least be a decent amount of clips where so called game gurus are picking up girls who are generally thought of as hot rather than just average to above average. I see hotter girls every day I go outside all the time that are better looking than what I've seen in pua clips.

 

[Warped Mindless]

Cool, so we've gone from "these girls are barely 8s" to "these girls are so hot they're not even realistic". How convenient. You honestly never see girls this hot in person? Generally people tend to look better in motion than they do in still frames. Even with filters and whatever, imo hot girls look better in video and real life than some souped up picture. Yeah, girls who are a 6 can fake being a 8 or 9 in pictures but it's not like girls who are an 8 or a 9 don't actually exist in the real world. After all the decades the pua industry has been around for you'd expect there to at least be a decent amount of clips where so called game gurus are picking up girls who are generally thought of as hot rather than just average to above average. I see hotter girls every day I go outside all the time that are better looking than what I've seen in pua clips.

What “PUA clips” are you going on about?

 

[Water_Polo]

In field footage in general, either that or just dude's posting receipts like showing their girlfriends. More of an old school thing like those RSD videos. I think Tyler and the bunch still release them. "The faces are blurred" wasn't always a thing, and even with it you can still tell what they look like. Todd had a bunch, along with all those youtubers.

They don't always blur the face out, they say that they're doing it for privacy reasons but that's nonsense. Here's one of Austen Summers where he gets a quick number from a good looking girl where, surprise surprise, he doesn't actually blur her face out.

But it's just like a 10 second interaction and getting a number. Basically the exact same thing that the OP of this thread is talking about that leads to nowhere. In most of the videos even with blurred out faces you can still tell they're not hot. I don't see anything that looks like a genuine pull where the girls are legit attractive. Either with the girls they end up with or what they're showing in their products.