How doubling my income has affected my seduction/lifestyle (for those of you that complain about money)

[Tank]

@Tank I see that you are very stubborn about your belief , which is fine

For sure the guys that you are talking about are doing something wrong , as everyone on this thread is agreeing that being high value helps you with higher status girls , but is not helping you with lower status girls , and basically your "talent pool" instead of increasing is actually decreasing

? No I didn't say status doesn't matter. Status means different things in different places. Certainly a poor village girl in Serbia or the Philippines will care about a man's earning power, but why would a teenage middle class sorority girl have any need for a man of financial means? It really does zero for your value in the West. Status there is more about how socially connected you are, how cool of parties you go to. Status is still important but status is knowing djs, not having a fat bank account when it comes to the west.

 

[Carousel]

"Status" is just as useless a term as "value" to analyze PU. It will mean different things even within the same country, depending on your social circle or the club you hang out. There is cultural elite and financial elite - both are high status, also even within at least the first of these there are multiple divisions. However some guy with high cultural capital may not be an optimal match for a golddigger and vice versa. Even if your value and status is high, it may be the wrong kind of value and status.

It is more instructive to look at this in terms of framing theory, especially Gun's works about social frame. Does your social frame match with hers? Can you frame yourself to match with her? I personally may present myself in different ways to appeal to social frames of different subcultures, interestingly I have found that the same is a good idea for writing resumes.

However I suppose a lot of guys just love this low-resolution analysis in terms of "status" to rationalize that they are at peak performance: I already have perfect game and nothing to learn about how to present myself for different demographics. Any bad reactions I get are due to not enough or too much looksmoneystatus.

 

[Tank]

Hot girls in any country tend to be fairly similar. In the USA 95%+ of girls who are 8 and above are sorority girls in college. Can you social frame your way into being part of their mileu? Not really. That doesn't mean you can't fuck them, you just have to do it the right way. For example, one wing I had could not get laid doing loads of 5 min combo then number conversations when approaching on campuses, but over the course of a summer same-day-laid 20+ girls, many of them these hot sorority girls, from the beach. Status is fairly universal within a country, but a lot of Gunwitch style game is learning how to avoid the social frame in the first place and rely on spur the moment emotions and biological reactions.

 

[BigPapa]

But this is what I was trying to say , if you try to seduce a girl in a place where she is higher status than you , then you do not really have a chance to seduce her unless you have social proof / preselection yourself .

But this does not mean that you can not seduce her in place that is social status neutral , like the beach example you gave

You are the same , she is the same , just that you need to know when is the right timing to whoop her out of her feet .

Basically you responded yourself to the whole back and forth about status

 

[Carousel]

Hot girls in any country tend to be fairly similar. In the USA 95%+ of girls who are 8 and above are sorority girls in college. Can you social frame your way into being part of their mileu? Not really. That doesn't mean you can't fuck them, you just have to do it the right way. For example, one wing I had could not get laid doing loads of 5 min combo then number conversations when approaching on campuses, but over the course of a summer same-day-laid 20+ girls, many of them these hot sorority girls, from the beach. Status is fairly universal within a country, but a lot of Gunwitch style game is learning how to avoid the social frame in the first place and rely on spur the moment emotions and biological reactions.

This illustrates my point perfectly - my country does not even have frats.

 

[Tank]

Replace frats with whatever is high status in that country, like being connected with cool djs in western Europe, and being wealthy in eastern Europe. 95%+ of girls 8+ will have the same values for what is high status. So either you have it or you learn a style of game that doesn't allow her time to think about how you line up on that metric (by going for SDL, this is precisely why Gunwitch recommends it)

 

[Carousel]

Replace frats with whatever is high status in that country, like being connected with cool djs in western Europe, and being wealthy in eastern Europe. 95%+ of girls 8+ will have the same values for what is high status.

Huh? Again this proves my point that "status" has little explanatory value. Being in a frat, being rich, knowing djs - very different things and the efforts or attributes required to achieve each of them are also very different. Also I dispute your claim that 95% of hot girls will gravitate to these things. Here in Norway we have no frats and golddigger game is a niche as the population is not poor, so 95% of girls require you to know cool DJs in order to have high status? I have not registered that and the segment of hot girls interested in music/nightlife is much smaller.

 

[Tank]

It does have explanatory and even prescriptive value. In the sense that one can assess how high status he is in his local society and adjust his game accordingly (as in if he is low status, go for sdl snl game only with hotter girls).
My impression of Norwegian women is its looks first and knowing djs second. As in when she logically assesses you if you just get a number that's how your league is assessed. But they are also a lot more open to fast sex so snl game is very effective e there, and not at all against any social frames so if you get very good at snl game (case in point teevster) you should have no problem with quality ceilings

 

[BigPapa]

@Tank amigo , first of all same day lays are not as common as you think , or people letting you here think

Second of all , I do not understand your obsession towards this status thing , I mean you with your own words said that your friend was not seducing them at frat parties , but on the beach and other places , where it did not matter if he is one of the cool guys or not ...

Why you do not want to learn from his experience and do the same ?

 

[Carousel]

It does have explanatory and even prescriptive value.

Yeah it predicts interesting things, like every man above college age in the US is suddenly "low status" as he has aged out of frats?
Or what about men who never set their foot on college? All of them must be low status.

In the sense that one can assess how high status he is in his local society and adjust his game accordingly (as in if he is low status, go for sdl snl game only with hotter girls).

As if "status" is just one thing inside a society of millions of people. Do you seriously think all people in a society value the same things?

My impression of Norwegian women is its looks first and knowing djs second. As in when she logically assesses you if you just get a number that's how your league is assessed.

So now it is suddenly looks? Lol.

But they are also a lot more open to fast sex so snl game is very effective e there, and not at all against any social frames so if you get very good at snl game (case in point teevster) you should have no problem with quality ceilings

Nah, Teevster has actually been DJing (not kidding).

 

[Carousel]

I have several friends who used to party and get laid all the time, then after some time got a bit jaded with the lifestyle and pursued a demanding professional career at a high level or started a business and although they became very financially successful, they're no longer the fun party boys they were before and are forced to settle with old fat chicks (5s maybe). It really is get laid or get paid.

Typical evolution of "naturals" - only get laid on high momentum or with crutches.

This has really not much to do with "status" or "money" - it is more like these guys probably went completely asocial or monomanic and probably neglected all sorts of fundamentals.

 

[Tank]

I don't get the resistance to what I'm saying which should be pretty obvious. Status is a social frame consideration for league that all women consider when they are in a place to think about a guy logically for instance if you get a number and she thinks about you. In the USA that means you're in a frat, and if you're older you hang out and are popular in the dj-promoter scene. That determines your status there on a purely logical superficial level. Now obviously game aiming for snl and sdl can circumvent this, and is in large part a huuuuge aspect of what gun teaches, how to get laid when you are not kneejerk acceptable to date for her from a social frame. And teevster himself wrote how he finds snl much easier than dates. I don't see what could possibly be controversial about any of this.

 

[Carousel]

I don't get the resistance to what I'm saying which should be pretty obvious. Status is a social frame consideration for league that all women consider when they are in a place to think about a guy logically for instance if you get a number and she thinks about you. In the USA that means you're in a frat, and if you're older you hang out and are popular in the dj-promoter scene. That determines your status there on a purely logical superficial level. Now obviously game aiming for snl and sdl can circumvent this, and is in large part a huuuuge aspect of what gun teaches, how to get laid when you are not kneejerk acceptable to date for her from a social frame.

To me this is not "obvious" at all. Surely, a certain % of the female population is interested in music/nightlife. So this is ONE way to have status. But it is a pretty big leap to claim that this is the ONLY way to have status. Status is your position in a given dominance hierarchy and there are hundreds of them in a given society.

And teevster himself wrote how he finds snl much easier than dates. I don't see what could possibly be controversial about any of this.

Well teevster can speak for himself, but in general he has a very high ratio in isolation, that includes dates. I have never gotten this impression from anything he has said recently. Do you have the actual citation?

 

[Tank]

If we are talking 8+ then no there aren't multiple relative dominance hierarchies, hot girls tend to congregate in particular value structured social circles.

Why You Can Get Hotter Women with Same-Day Lays

Your best chance to have sex with a girl is on the day you first meet. Going for same-day lays will net you a better meet-to-lay ratio and even get you hotter girls. Hey, guys. Today I have a follow-up to my post about the typical ways most guys meet girls (online and social circle). My...

www.girlschase.com

Exactly what I described. If you go for same day it's just your ability to get her excited and comp liant. If you take a number she will compare you to the 1000 of Instagram offers, including a billionaire sheikh in dubai, a local dj's house party with boundless cocaine , and the most good looking and popular guy in her local university social circle. Such a logical comparison is not going to be favorable.

 

[Carousel]

If we are talking 8+ then no there aren't multiple relative dominance hierarchies, hot girls tend to congregate in particular value structured social circles.

You are contradicting yourself.

Exactly what I described. If you go for same day it's just your ability to get her excited and compliant. If you take a number she will compare you to the 1000 of Instagram offers, including a billionaire sheikh in dubai, a local dj's house party with boundless cocaine , and the most good looking and popular guy in her local university social circle. Such a logical comparison is not going to be favorable.

Here you list four different hierarchies

- Instagram
- Bilionaires (after saying wealth does not matter at all in the West in post #35).
- Djs with cocaine
- Hot university guys in her social circle

Also I believe a big reason for Teevster's observations is simply TINDER. Which has nothing to do with status. But I'll ask him to chime in.

 

[Tank]

Yes I mention all of these options because regardless if she has more common Western values (yolo life is a party time) or is a Russian gold digger or is just a small town less ambitious girl who wants to date the cool guy in her social circle, all of these social frame valued options are available to her. And, generally speaking, as cold approach seducers, we will fall short in terms of virtually every possible hot girl value system. And a significant goal in game is to circumvent these logical social rules she will invariably have about who she is supposed to date.

 

[Carousel]

Yes I mention all of these options because regardless if she has more common Western values (yolo life is a party time) or is a Russian gold digger or is just a small town less ambitious girl who wants to date the cool guy in her social circle, all of these social frame valued options are available to her.
And, generally speaking, as cold approach seducers, we will fall short in terms of virtually every possible hot girl value system. And a significant goal in game is to circumvent these logical social rules she will invariably have about who she is supposed to date.

Again, proves that "status" is a totally useless as a discussion tool as it can mean everything from instagram, being a billionaire, being a cokehead DJ or being a social circle guy in a frat. These things have almost nothing in common other than some degree of "high position" of some kind. And these will also appeal to different demographics of women.

I also wish you would speak for yourself in terms of what "cold approach seducers" are able to do. We have several guys here who have done a fair amount of social circle game or fit into high-end venues, and dress to the level where the club photographer seeks us out for promotional purposes. Or know people with 100K followers on social media.

 

[Tank]

No not really. There are very few value systems that many hot girls associate with. I've pretty much described every single one that's out there. As in if you look around the entire planet, the population of genuinely hot 8+ who from the social frame perspective, logically decide they will only date a guy that is 1) in the right frat, or otherwise a popular party boy (if she has Western values) 2) is a multimillionaire (if she is from a poor country) or 3) is the most popular good looking guy in her University social circle (if she is more modest), is pretty much 99.99% of all hot 8+ women. Yes each country and in some cases will have varying amounts of these 3 preferences, but it's a given that one must game from the perspective that hot girls if they were to logically consider it, require one of these things, and so must game accordingly if they do not adhere to these standards. (obviously yes bookworm hippie 8s do exist but in 1000 cold approaches you are lucky to even talk to one of them, so it's not a statistically relevant consideration, the exceptions prove the rule)

Sure I mean in general for the average guy learning this stuffif you are indeed a man of status then great logical social quality ceilings won't be a problem for you.

 

[Spyce D]

Get laid is go and ask.
Get paid is go and learn the skill.

Both are skills. (No pun intended!)

You never go and ask for either one, you will have a problem.

The thing is both of them are similar but very distinct different.

Agreed . What I don't understand is how people in this industry can talk about having a purpose (helps with women) and also being broke gets you more women at the same time .
Maybe , the thing could be that people who are born rich or were completely focused on getting high level job never really cared about seduction or even women . I live in India , I know many men who fit in these categories.

So, maybe it could be just how we operate in these two fields in our life that makes all the difference.

 

[Carousel]

No not really. There are very few value systems that many hot girls associate with. I've pretty much described every single one that's out there. As in if you look around the entire planet, the population of genuinely hot 8+ who from the social frame perspective, logically decide they will only date a guy that is 1) in the right frat, or otherwise a popular party boy (if she has Western values) 2) is a multimillionaire (if she is from a poor country) or 3) is the most popular good looking guy in her University social circle (if she is more modest), is pretty much 99.99% of all hot 8+ women. Yes each country and in some cases will have varying amounts of these 3 preferences, but it's a given that one must game from the perspective that hot girls if they were to logically consider it, require one of these things, and so must game accordingly if they do not adhere to these standards. (obviously yes bookworm hippie 8s do exist but in 1000 cold approaches you are lucky to even talk to one of them, so it's not a statistically relevant consideration, the exceptions prove the rule)

This is just your claim without any supporting evidence.

Not every woman attends university at all and definitely won't stay there for many years. Chase makes the case that only a minority of women are interested in nightlife and thus status in that scene will be of limited value to the majority of women.

Why I Quit Dating Girls Who Club, Party, or Drink

Something I've been asked from time to time on this site (most recently in a forum post by one of our members here) is why I don't date girls who club, party, drink, or have "girls' nights out". The questions you most frequently get about this are: Doesn't every girl do these things? Who cares...

www.girlschase.com

"The fact is, MOST girls are NOT party girls. Most girls do not:

• Get drunk / smashed / wasted (ever)
• Hang out in nightclubs (ever)
• Have wild girls' nights out (ever)

Shocking? No, not really. You see these girls on TV and think they're everywhere, or you meet them at the club and think every girl is like them... but they're not. These women represent a minority of the women out there."

Sure I mean in general for the average guy learning this stuff☺if you are indeed a man of status then great logical social quality ceilings won't be a problem for you.

"The average guy" will never get good at anything, neither SNL/SDL nor any other kind of game so that is an uninteresting consideration.

Status in the nightlife scene is not that hard to achieve for a good cold approacher. I can mention that Teevster spent a few weeks in a new city before having afterparties with people working in night life - this cannot be explained by "status" as he knew nobody there. I also know a fair amount of such people and club regulars simply by spending a lot of time in clubs and being a reasonably cool guy - they often pester me for afterparties.