How often you DON'T have sex with a girl you bring home? (100 lays >only)

[Chase]

@Skills,

Don't know precisely what type of game you run, type of girls you're going for, the circumstances, etc.

But let me paint one picture for you...

You meet a girl on the street, have a 5-minute chat, and take her contact info. There's some interest there; it's nothing crazy, but she might be interested. She's attractive, and you'd like to see where this goes.

So you set up a date with her two days later. Something very convenient for you, at a café a five-minute walk from your place. You meet her nearby and walk with her to the café. You get with her there, sit next to her, touch her some. She's friendly, a little standoffish, but you see what you can do. You both talk for about 90 minutes. She laughs at your jokes, there's a little flirtation. You try some sexual frames but she's resistant. However, when you ask her to comply with various requests, like sharing food/drinks, showing you an item she has on, moving to another and more intimate booth with you, and so on, she complies.

It doesn't really feel like this is going anywhere, so you figure well, what are my options? #1, I'm just going to let this girl go and not contact her. #2, I'll leave it for now, and try to do a second date with her. #3, I'll invite her up, and let's see what happens.

IME, when you do #2, odds are given how the date is gone she is not going to be interested in a second one. If she isn't sold on you by the end of the first date, she won't show up for the second. And if you do #1, your odds to sleep with this girl are zero.

But let's say she's cute! She's really cute. And the vibe with you and her isn't horrible. What can you do?

Well, your place is a 5-minute walk away. So you can invite her up. Worst thing that can happen? She leaves, and you get onto doing whatever it is you would've done anyway had you left the date and not invited her up in the first place.

I've had quite a few women I've invited to my place on "eh, I don't know" dates like this. The close rate is not great, but, get this... the chance you sleep with a girl like this you invite home is significantly higher than the chance you get a second date with her if you just let her go after this first date.

If I had to put a number on it, it would be something like...

Girl you failed to really connect with on the date, but had a sort-of okay connection with:

• Invite her back to your place, then and there: 60% odds she says yes, 30% odds you sleep with the girls who do come, 18% close rate overall
  
  
• Don't invite her back to your place, and instead let her go, then invite her on a second date later: 20% odds she says yes, 50% shag rate on that date (close rates on second dates where the first date wasn't great are low for me... I almost never do them), 10% close rate overall

If your place is 5-10 minutes away from the date location (which is what I generally advise for everyone... live near your date locations; date near your place), it takes maybe 20 minutes total to get her back and find out if she's going to bed with you or not.

You've already dumped 2+ hours into meeting, coordinating with, and going out with this girl. You might as well take another 20 minutes to see if you can close her out, even if it didn't feel like it was on.

I have had a lot of experiences where it did not feel "on" at all with the girl. Yet, we got back to my place, I followed my sequence -- get her shoes off, get her on the couch, get her a glass of water, throw something boring on TV, chat with her very intimately for a few minutes, then go for the kiss -- and she goes for it, and you shag her. One of my best-ever girlfriends was a girl I pulled like this, where I felt dead certain there was no way we'd sleep together, because she was friendly but there was zero sexual vibe. Shagged her within 15 minutes. Absolutely beautiful girl. I am certain if I hadn't pulled her on the first date, despite not feeling it, I never would've slept with her. Probably wouldn't have even seen her for a second date.

But yeah... there are misses when you are doing this too. Because you are bringing back girls it isn't 'on' with, at least some of the time.

You can either hang out for a while and try to turn them on. But I don't like to do that, because it's lower odds and takes time.

So then you can do what I do, which is make yourself kiss her within 10 minutes of getting into your place. Then you will find out very quickly if she is a girl who is going to go for it when it's there in front of her, and she can do it in private, with this anonymous guy none of her social circle knows, or if she is going to object and leave.

I will also add... I get more of a thrill out of these sorts of pulls than the ones where it is on.

When it's on, you already know what will happen. Which makes it a little boring for me.

When it's not on, you are really challenged on how you are going to figure this out and make this work. You are also forced to stay as cool and calm and sexy as possible despite not having a lot to work with from the girl, which makes it harder. I like the challenge.

Could be aggravating if it costs you a lot of time or convenience. But for me I try to always set things up so that I am spending as little time on dates and pulls as possible (that way I can just get the girl, or lose the girl, if she can't be gotten... then get back to the other things I need to be doing).

Chase

 

[naturalmikey]

@Skills i agree. i was gonna comment the same thing but didn’t want to seem disagreeable, as clearly i often do. i remember the last time a girl came to my house and we didn’t hook up. it was in july 2018. she was brazilian and we didn’t get along. she didn’t like my humor, and i’m not sure why she even care home with me. it’s such an anomaly. i don’t give a shit if she’s on her period.

i also pulled a model from a house party maybe around february of the same year. she suggested we split an uber as my house was on the way to hers. she suggested coming in so she could have a cigarette. she lead everything and then when i tried to kiss her got weird and left. we ended up becoming friends and i hooked up with two of her friends. this is another one of those anomalies. if you pull enough girls some aren’t going to close. but it’s such a small percent in my experience.

 

[Chase]

if you pull enough girls some aren’t going to close. but it’s such a small percent in my experience.

So, elaborate on what your experience is here, NM.

There are three possibilities, as I see it:

1. You only invite a girl home when you know she's ready to go, like Skills
   
   
2. You invite many girls home who aren't ready to go yet, like Cody and I, but you've devised a way to turn girls on after the pull and bed them without fail, even if they weren't ready to go at the time of the pull
   
   
3. You're such an irresistible pile of man that you just don't run into girls who aren't DTF within 10 minutes of conversation anymore. The hottest girl leaves the party with you, like clockwork

I'm assuming it's probably not #3. Or if it's #3... well, I've been in this space a while. Have met a few guys who claimed to always get the hottest girl in the venue. When you roll with them, it turns out the girls they are getting are not always the hottest girl in the venue. But they think they are. So... I guess it counts for something.

Anyway -- assuming it isn't #3...

If it's #1: well, I already talked about that in my prior post.

If it's #2: I'd be very interested to hear what your process is. Would be nice to see a T&T or Advanced board post on how you're taking "meh" girls and "maybe sorta into you" girls and consistently bedding them once back at your place.

I find that's usually a bit of a gamble or a tightrope walk -- anything any guy who's playing around in that space and coming up with good ideas that work has to share, I am always very interested in.

Chase

 

[naturalmikey]

like i said these are night game pulls and date pulls.

here are a few possible reasons:
1. i’m not platonic. nothing about me comes off as so
2. i don’t try much at all which often gets girls trying
3. i live in a city where girls are very free
4. i’m not making excuses like after party
5. i don’t mess with chicks over 24 very often
6. why in the world is a girl gonna go to a guys house at 2 am or after a date if it’s not to either fuck or fuck with his head. i screen out time wasters.
7. i’m not looking for a nice girl at 1 am
8. i have the belief that if she can resist me the sexual chemistry isn’t strong enough


so as to @Chase #2 girls if she’s meh or sorta into you she’s not going home with you at 2 am or after a date. it would never even enter my reality a girl who came home alone with me wouldn’t be dtf. maybe during all this day time stuff you’re talking about it’s different. i’ve never pulled from day game. but i never have problem getting laid during day dates either, so long as they come to my house. and for #3 i’m not brad pitt or anything.

 

[Skills]

4. i’m not making excuses like after party
5. i don’t mess with chicks over 24 very often

Your last post is spot on... 2 small nitpicks:

4.-the after party is not an excuse (i know julian does this as excuse, bait and switch).... When i say it she already knows is to come to my house (unlike julien after party)

5.- i would never agree to a date in the morning or afternoon(unless is obvious is going to be a sexual encounter and the date is a pretex).... and i do mess with over and under 24, but it is irrelevant, i stand by if she agree to go home = she agree to sex...

p.s. i have issues with Brazilian women and my style of humor as well, i need to ask @POB what is going with them...(he is Brazilian)

 

[Chase]

Sounds like we're pretty near to agreement on nighttime.

But this...

so as to @Chase #2 girls if she’s meh or sorta into you she’s not going home with you at 2 am or after a date.

... there's an entire world I think you're probably not even aware exists.

And it sounds like the disconnect.

Let's agree:

• If a girl's sold on you, when you pull her home, the lay is on lock. Close percent at or near 95-100% (barring weird little unpredictable things... her friend calls her up having a meltdown, you girl starts throwing up in your toilet, etc. etc.). Agreed.
  
  
• If a girl's not sold on you -- you don't think you're taking her home, after a date or at night.

But I am.

This was a thing I did not know you could do or think you could do at all, my first four years in game.

Then I spent five weeks in L.A. with a guy I knew who was very, very good. Started as a street gamer, but got good at night too. And we would approach girls in all kinds of situations, pull them very fast, despite them being extremely skeptical of us, and shag.

Totally blew my mind. Thought it was some kind of magical aura of his or something. But I started doing it solo, and it worked for me too.

I spent five years as a salesman. And what you are doing with skeptical girls is salesmanship. You sell them and engineer little yes ladders and objection handle right till they're back at your place.

The challenge when you do this is then once you're home with them you need to switch back to sexual. You don't want to be selling girls if you can help it, but if the girl isn't biting on your game, you switch to selling to get her to your place. Then once there, you switch back to sexual. And... sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

However, it is the only way I know to take the girls who are 0s and turn them into 1s. When sexual doesn't work, you sell them. Then gamble that once they're alone with you, they decide "Well screw it, I'm here, he's cool, and I guess he is sexy, might as well shag this guy."

If you don't care about turning 0s to 1s, and you only want to do high percentage stuff, this will seem like a waste of time.

But if you like being able to take a crap night, or a meh date, and pull out a surprise lay, it makes a difference.

I personally get a much bigger kick out of lays I get this way. Every guy has his tastes, though.

Chase

 

[naturalmikey]

but why would i want to improve a pull rate but bringing girls home that didn’t want to have sex?

@Chase so i could bring 100 girls home and 90-95 have sex or i could bring 150 girls home that 90-95 have sex. what is the advantage of the latter?

 

[Chase]

@naturalmikey,

Well, now you're asking me to convince you.

Which... I am never in favor of. General rule for me is if a style of game is good for you, you're going to be excited when you hear about it.

If we're talking raw math however...

• Guy A only pulls DTF girls. His close rate is 93%. Over the span of 365 days, he pulls 39 DTF girls, and sleeps with 36 of them, for a total of 36 lays.
  
  
• Guy B pulls both DTF girls and skeptical girls. His close rate for DTF girls is also 93%. However, his close rate for skeptical girls is only 35%. Over the span of 365 days, he pulls 35 DTF girls and sleeps with 33 of them, plus 24 skeptical girls, and sleeps with 8 of them, for a total of 41 lays. His two most beautiful lays of the year also happened to be among those 8 girls he slept with who seemed to be skeptical of him, but he pulled and shagged them anyway. One of them is now his primary girlfriend.

There are some downsides here: you are putting more time... and possibly emotional energy, if rejection bugs you... into more girls it doesn't work out with.

If you're efficient, it's not a lot of extra time, since you will only be pulling girls you're already talking to when out in night life, or girls you've already taken the time to meet, flirt with, arrange dates with, and go on the dates with. Most of the extra time is eaten up commuting to your place or the girl's place (but mostly your place... so if it doesn't work out you can just show her to the door, and you are already at home), and escalating on her at your place. Which, if you are efficient about it and using my 10-minute kiss rule, means that will take you all of 10 minutes once she's at your place before you know whether you'll shag her or show her out.

That's the mathematical argument in-favor-of.

But really, it is more an emotional thing, isn't it?

I don't care a whole lot if I bring a girl back and she leaves. The only time I care is if it wastes a lot of extra time I had, or if I made a bad choice and passed up on a girl who was DTF to go with another girl I ended up not sleeping with.

But I get a big kick out of it when I pull a girl who is skeptical, and it doesn't seem like I'll be able to bed her... and then... I bed her.

If a guy thinks differently, that may not have the same appeal.

Chase

 

[Skills]

chase i get the impression you are saying is only dtf girls (as people may notice dtf girls are almost none existent like back in the days now a days, i would say the last 5 years).... There are some skeptical girls as well (a lot more work) but again once the door is open and she is in game over....

^ usually what i do is pull out my dick, lol and masturbate then i grab her hand and put it on my dick... (short version there is more to it)

 

[naturalmikey]

chase i get the impression you are saying is only dtf girls (as people may notice dtf girls are almost none existent like back in the days now a days, i would say the last 5 years).... There are some skeptical girls as well (a lot more work) but again once the door is open and she is in game over....

^ usually what i do is pull out my dick, lol and masturbate then i grab her hand and put it on my dick... (short version there is more to it)

lol. i don’t do anything like that. but props for boldness. i usually say nothing is gonna happen and then blame her for turning me on.

but yeah it’s not like girls just come over and take off their pants like “fuck me daddy.” not that that doesn’t happen on occasion. but normally you can still fuck it up at your place. i find for me being too aggressive fucks it up. that’s because my personality is so aloof it comes off as noncongruent. @Skills im guessing if you tried my approach it would come off as incongruent with your personality.

it’s all about finding what it is about you that makes girls wanna fuck. what arouses women with me has become highly predictable. i believe, although i know it’s not 100% true, that i could fuck any girl in isolation by sending mixed signals. that’s the way my game works. it realistically doesn’t always works that way. at which point i escalate. they’re usually like it’s about time. because i’ll send mixed signals for quite a while waiting for her to escalate.

 

[Skills]

lol. i don’t do anything like that. but props for boldness. i usually say nothing is gonna happen and then blame her for turning me on.

but yeah it’s not like girls just come over and take off their pants like “fuck me daddy.” not that that doesn’t happen on occasion. but normally you can still fuck it up at your place. i find for me being too aggressive fucks it up. that’s because my personality is so aloof it comes off as noncongruent. @Skills im guessing if you tried my approach it would come off as incongruent with your personality.

it’s all about finding what it is about you that makes girls wanna fuck. what arouses women with me has become highly predictable. i believe, although i know it’s not 100% true, that i could fuck any girl in isolation by sending mixed signals. that’s the way my game works. it realistically doesn’t always works that way. at which point i escalate. they’re usually like it’s about time. because i’ll send mixed signals for quite a while waiting for her to escalate.

no! i do that too, https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/g...sexual-act-while-physical-verbally-escalating

I do many techniques, but that one is last resort...here is the long version (is not aggressive at all)

 

[Tony D]

I'd say one out of ten times, she doesn't put out for me. That doesn't count the 18-21 year old virgins, of which there were surprisingly many in my years of naughty behaviour. Most girls by the time I get them home want to have sex too, and if they don't I'm totally fine with it. I really am. I could care less. I make out, watch a movie, cuddle, then tell them they have to go so I can sleep, or that I have to go home now. Then they usually jump on me and want to have sex.

And if not, I pull it out and jerk off, which they usually watch with amusement, or help out with. I've never had a girl be upset about me doing that. And afterwards I don't really care anymore anyway. I see them again and it happens on the second or third time.

 

[Skills]

I'd say one out of ten times, she doesn't put out for me. That doesn't count the 18-21 year old virgins, of which there were surprisingly many in my years of naughty behaviour. Most girls by the time I get them home want to have sex too, and if they don't I'm totally fine with it. I really am. I could care less. I make out, watch a movie, cuddle, then tell them they have to go so I can sleep, or that I have to go home now. Then they usually jump on me and want to have sex.

And if not, I pull it out and jerk off, which they usually watch with amusement, or help out with. I've never had a girl be upset about me doing that. And afterwards I don't really care anymore anyway. I see them again and it happens on the second or third time.

^ Guys in the article i linked, for those of you that do not know, tony d is zardoz.... yeah very similar to what i do...

 

[Franco]

I wasn't going to reply to this thread, but then I read through it and started loving the responses... so here I am replying.

I understand where @Chase is coming from because my style of game (before implementing more of @Teevster 's explicit sex talk gambits on dates) was to be a very sexy guy fundamentally. And by fundamentally, I mean that my eye contact, my smiles, my body motion, my (very small) kino, and my overall "vibe" exuded sexiness. Think something like George Clooney.

And I used to pull girls home like this. No sex talk and very little kino. Our topics of conversation were actually quite platonic, too. I relied purely on "vibe" to sell my sexuality.

What was NICE about this is that girls would VERY often come home with me after dates. I had an insanely high close rate on dates at one point (nearly 100%) because almost every single girl would come home with me... because I was relatively "safe," and also attractive enough that the girl knew she wanted me sexually but also slightly in the "boyfriend" frame too, I assume anyway.

Then once I got her home, I would turn on the fucking heat.

I would get extremely sexual and kino her pretty hard, and I would go in for the kiss within a few minutes of her coming over. This would almost immediately result in a sexual escalation since the girl was clearly attracted to me, but she had ZERO idea I had big fucking juevos and would sexually escalate so aggressively. It would ALMOST seem incongruent. But I say "almost" only because my "vibe" on the date still clearly indicated sexuality. So in the back of the girl's mind, she had a feeling that there was a very sexual man behind the curtains.

THIS BEING SAID, I did occasionally fail escalations. And I would have to see these girls a second or third time to seal the deal. So I did not have the same experience as @Skills where I was bedding these girls if they made it in my door. At least not the first time they came in the door anyway.

That was... until... I started pulling my cock out in front of them and putting their hand on it!

I was fucking dying laughing when I saw @Skills say this:

^ usually what i do is pull out my dick, lol and masturbate then i grab her hand and put it on my dick... (short version there is more to it)

...because that's EXACTLY what I do now too. I'm usually hard as a fucking rock if she's already on my couch, and nothing puts a girl in a sexual state like seeing a big, rock hard cock in front of her attached to a man she's already sexually attracted to.

So I can totally attest to this strategy. And I think I first remember seeing this "technique" was when it was mentioned by Ricardus [Karea], who used to regularly contribute to this website.

So... +1 to pulling your cock out when a girl comes over -- I guess that was the point behind my post? LOL.

Cheers,

Franco

 

[naturalmikey]

i feel like there should be a caveat to this whole whipping your dick out thing so ten newbies don’t ruin their reputation. this is cold approach pickup. if you do this in your social circle, college, coworkers, etc you risk serious social repercussions.

 

[Teevster]

Karea got this trick from sleazy. He was the master of this. There is actually a pretty complexe system to pull it off properly.

Ps: the acronym is PYCO : pull your cock out

DISCLAIMER: don't attempt this as a newbie. You need to have good social awareness and tight escalarion skills and too notch calibration. If you lack any of these you may in worst case scenarios pick up soaps (does this count as a lay?)

Best,

 

[Skills]

all the scare mongering of pulling your dick out is silly, i have been doing this since my 20s (never new sleazy or karea did it) by the time i was doing this there were probably max 10 years old.... most people as they start getting laid will eventually come to this conclusion themselves.... I did a video were i explain how to do it and an article.... is not rocket science, and it does no matter cold approach or sc or whatever if she is in your house and you pull out your dick what difference does it make...

article: http://www.theskillsmethod.com/prov...t-blow-job-featuring-bill-clinton-video-blog/

again the video(step by step)

 

[naturalmikey]

@Skills its 2019. you do this shit on a college campus and it doesn’t go over well you could be on the front page of the campus paper in an article about perverts. i don’t think newbies should be doing this at all. but at the bare minimum should avoid it in social circle. this could have tremendous social repercussions.

 

[Skills]

@Skills its 2019. you do this shit on a college campus and it doesn’t go over well you could be on the front page of the campus paper in an article about perverts. i don’t think newbies should be doing this at all. but at the bare minimum should avoid it in social circle. this could have tremendous social repercussions.

total scaremongering...How many times have you tried it?

 

[Velasco]

@Skills

NaturalMikey is not a newbie. He and Teevster are saying that if your a newbie (like you are very new to pick up...(you said you've been doing this move since your 20s, but you had been picking up girls since your early teens (?) as a natural...so your social awareness/intuition/calibration levels were already pretty good before you attempted this move) were to try this, he would very likely fuck it up. Even with your step by step instructions.

from your article:

"YOU GOT A TURN HER ON, you will know by her body language, sometimes you need to rinse wash repeat, and tell her you got a go again, somehow you will make her let you play or suck her breast, THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE ROUTINE, you need to see part of her breast, you will say “dam you look so good your breast/tits are amazing”, at that point you will act like your first time looking at breast or something for that effect, and you WILL squeeze your dick through your pants, while sexually complementing her breast again and again, then, yes then, you pull it out and masturbate looking directly at her breast, do not look at her face, just the breast. Then, you will put her hand on your dick while looking at her breast, she will jerk you off, and then automatically she will give you a blow job".

newbies/especially guys with aspergers, struggle to read body language cues, and make her feel very uncomfortable. Have I tried this move? No. But that's because I set sexual frames in my interactions before pulling home, so that I don't have to resort to doing this.