How to increase my number to date ratio?

[DoWhatWorks]

You guys doing "street stops" remind me of door to door salesmen, not hunters, not fishers of women. You make it a job and I don't want a job. It is an amusing past time. I improve myself so that women notice me, I pick up on their interest and engage in a high percentage interaction.

Your street stops and number grabs might be good practice but you can get better at socializing just by working retail or service industry. It reminds me of the young bears chasing salmon up and down the river, while the older bears sit on the prime spots and catch the salmon in the air.

Also I ignored this the 1st time but as others have picked up I'll comment quickly too.

Comments like these appear to just be an ego boosting exercise because you make some metaphor mentions with no tangible advice.

How do you @Fuck This @Skills present yourself in a way that maximise the amount of interest you get and how do you spot and act on this interest?

That's a far more productive conversation to have

 

[Skjöldr]

All 7 girls i slept with through daygame since mid-july gave no IOIs whatsoever. Now this isn't to argue that getting AIs or IOIs first isn't superior. That is just to say... See if you can get a pre-approach approach invitation going. Make it more smooth and seemingly natural. But if that isn't possible, go in anyways. And lol to say girls have shields up because of daygamers approaching regardless of invitation is pure nonsense. How many daygamers are there in the world compared to women aged 16-50 who are average looking and up? The ratio stands at about 1:10.000. Being gracious it could be 1:2000. But that's pure speculation. My point is, even the most active daygamers do around 1000 a year. That would mean girls have shields up around them because they are approached every 2-5 years? Come on, boy

 

[Skjöldr]

Yeah but that has nothing to do with what you said. A lot of people here (most, hopefully) are trying to actually improve their game, to get the girls they really want, and the path to that involves a lot of grinding, approaching lots and lots of girls, socializing for thousands of hours to get experience. To just blame on other people on the reaction girls will have to you later does you no good. If that's the case, you have to deal with it. It's just the way of the game.

I get that a lot of average girls will act like the hottest shit if you allow them to, just because of the validation all the clueless guys will give them (nowadays, with the internet, and on it, even more so). But you gotta be the one communicating to them you won't put up with this, not expect the other desperate guys to stop trying.


Lol so true, I had been approached by guys two times at least, but those two times I remember very well.
One guy came up to me like I would approach a girl on a good day: walked confidently, in a chill way, rest his arm on me and made his intention very clear. I told him I wasn't into his type of stuff but respected his approach/his balls (even as a gay guy, I mean, even more, because if he's gay, he's in even more danger when he gets rejected, I suppose, like we can get into false accusations, gay dudes may get punched by some crazy dude they misjudge, right, which I suppose would only happen to a straight guy if he approached some dudes girlfriend and the guy was nuts).
The other one came really like indirectly, I could tell he kinda wanted it, he was like creeping on me (sometimes it's hard to picture what girls mean when they say this, but just think about how a desperate beggar looks at you, and you feel like this guy isn't on your level at all, but his thirsty for something you have, like clearly showing it in a stalker-ish way, so you feel threated). I told this guy I wasn't interested at all, but he kept following me and my friends, for like half an hour, I legit wanted to punch him. Eventually I just decided, you know what, enough is enough, so I just went very directly at him and said "dude, get a fucking clue, I don't anything with you, stop following me around, or I'll have to get physical with you, and not in a way you'll enjoy", so he fucked off. But it was emotionally draining, like man, I already have to worry about my friends being well, about pulling girls, and this dude is there, pissing the hell out of me.
It was also funny how the guy with the good approach had his fundamentals handled, like if he was straight I think he would give me some good competition, if not beat me lol, but the other guy was weird and chubby-ish (not to offend fat people but c'mon) and I feel like he would get pussy from a dead cat if he was straight.

Haha dude i was approached by a homo too when i was 17. He stood in a cross section on the street. Cant remember much but he asked if i was straight and i said yes and then he rubbed my stomach while saying "thats a shame. Youre cute." Bruhhh i nearly threw up.

 

[Skills]

Wow I didn't expect this to re-surface haha... Let me tie it all together. 1st off thanks @Bacchus for practical tips and keeping the thread on track.

There seems to be 3 schools of thought:

1) You have @Fuck This & @Skills who advocate waiting for signs of interest before approaching (makes perfect sense)

2) You have @Beam, @Beck Bass , @Phoenix, @Will_V & @Vision who say approach regardless

3) Lastly @Bacchus & @Gunwitch - say approach regardless but only do it in a certain way e.g. "walk past and loop back" to maximise your results

Think this thread is a classic example of how there's different ways to bake a cake & it doesn't make any one strategy "wrong".

What the direct guys are missing is that at some stage you have to shed the basic "Hi you're hot game" and move to more advanced levels where the approach is so smooth - it doesn't even feel like an approach to her and more like "destiny".

These are rarely direct but what the “approach only after invites” guys are missing is that you have to put up high numbers at the start to get good.

The other element is if you're a cool guy who gets results with direct game, it's a bit of a blow to the ego to think fuck I have to re-do my whole strategy that's "already working".

It also takes a lot more humility & mental energy to think of "situation openers" and "curiosity gambits" e.g. the exact celebrity that the girl reasonably looks like when opening in the more advanced way vs easy compliment.

This is similar for me and texting - I'm glad @Skills brutally calls my texting bad lol as knowing my weaknesses is the only way I'll improve & increase my %.

With that said... I think the potential end results are worth it - how many men can say they consistently meet and sleep with amazing women while casually living their lives?

Very few and that's why I'm here.

I don't wait for signs of interest I approach regardless, I explain in detail what I do here http://www.theskillsmethod.com/intr...-approach-featuring-corvette-aka-illuminatus/

 

[Will_V]

I think there's a bit of talking past eachother going on here.

I'm pretty sure most people agree that getting IOIs is better than not, and that one should put in the work to be able to get them. Fact is it's not too hard to get IOIs if you are well-dressed, confident, in good spirits, and know how to turn up the body language a little bit when in the vicinity of a hot girl. In my experience, most girls give IOIs by instinct, often based on peripheral vision, based on the way you carry yourself. When I have my walk down pat, I get hair tucks, looking down and reactive body language from oncoming traffic at way beyond the distance where she can properly see me. It's simply a reaction that says "I feel something".

Now I don't think it's necessary to get IOIs first, but it is very good to have, because it establishes the most important thing for a woman: your ability to read signals.

Women operate on the basis of signals, she understands how they work very well, and operates roughly on the expectation that signals (both positive and negative) will be seen and reacted to (even though most men can hardly see them). When you react to her signals, she feels like she has a certain level of control and comfort in the interaction.

If you don't get IOIs before approaching, then I believe you must be more adaptable and ready to react to her signals. The quicker she understands that you can see her signals, the better it is for you.

It's funny, because sometimes when I approach without IOIs, not in a good mental state and not reacting properly to her signals, she'll ask or comment about whether I've been drinking (if she didn't blow me out already). And if there's one thing about drunk people it's the inability to read signals.

So that's why I say a cold approacher should be socially adept first, because it establishes a positive basis for an interaction that, under the surface, is all about sexual intent, which is not by default a comfortable thing for a woman to feel from someone she doesn't know.

...

I think what @Fuck This was talking about is spam approaching, which is just zeroing in like a dumbfire torpedo doing things by numbers, without really taking the girl's signals or reactions into account, or doing much self-reflection or dedicated learning from mistakes.

Spam approaching is crazy and makes no sense. Seduction is a skill, a skill that revolves around connecting with another human being and offering something valuable, something that doesn't need to be given away at all costs.

And especially during cold approach, seduction isn't something that can prosper alongside many of the basic issues that guys have, which they can solve in a multitude of other more efficient ways.

- If someone doesn't like themselves, they won't get laid.
- If someone needs a girl to like them before they like themselves, they won't get laid.
- If someone feels like their life is boring and unsatisfying, they won't get laid.
- If someone cannot say hello and smile and get a good reaction, they won't get laid.
- If someone cannot hold a conversation to save their life, they won't get laid.
- If someone doesn't feel comfortable with the girl knowing that they want her sexually, they won't get laid.
- If someone cannot enjoy the simple fact of talking to a girl, and delighting in her presence in front of them, they won't get laid.

This should be obvious, but it seems like sometimes it's not. Self-improvement starts at the core and goes outward, and seduction is one of the outer layers of that, the layer that connects you to other people. Guys need to get their basic shit together before spending any serious amount of time trying to pull a woman into their bed.

Now with that said, I think everyone should cold approach, with the goal of offering a woman the very best of your warmth, your personality and your character, and also the intention of understanding each time a little bit more of her world and adapting to it in such a way that she feels understood and played with and led, rather than simply being the 49th cell in an excel spreadsheet of strike targets for that day.

 

[Fuck This]

Will gets it.

 

[Vision]

Back in the day, there was this guy named Craig who used to run around with David D. He had a saying, "It's always on"... which basically meant that if a woman was still in front of you, just assume she's attracted to you.

Obviously, it's great if a woman gives you IOIs and flips her hair, and giggles at your jokes, and turns her toes towards you or whatever... and it's important to be as socially conscious as humanly possible with women, since they tend to give hints and be more implicit with their communication.

But in order to really feel what's going on with a girl, you need a lot of interactions with them because the signs and signals definitely aren't always there. So if you're a newb, you need lots of interactions, good or bad, to build your social awareness of things... and no matter how much you've done this, unless you have some kind of really strong empathic abilities, some women you're not going to know what is going on with them.

The girl I dated who I met on the subway was like that. The only reason she became my girlfriend was because I kept moving things forward with her... I had no signals that I was aware of coming from her at all that she liked me outside the fact that she kept showing up and she kept letting me escalate on her.

That was it. I may have missed some of her cues but I've never dated someone who I could read as little as her before. At one point she said, "Isn't it obvious that I love you???" And I was like, "No... I actually have had no indications of you being in love with me at all..."

Women are like flowers. They come in lots of different shapes, sizes, colors, smells, and different things that make them unique and beautiful.

Each one is a different, unique, and special interaction... which is why this is called The Pickup Arts and not The Pickup Sciences.

I like submissive women... women who are shy and like me taking charge of things. Many times, those types of women are loud and expressive but they're often quiet and reserved and don't show a lot of interest.

And if I was waiting for IOIs, I'd miss these girls and that would be a shame.

I'm glad that we can agree that IOIs aren't necessary for an approach. You're right that they're desired.

I think there are a lot of assumptions that you're making here in your post that aren't necessarily true... I know some people who have horrible inner game who have a high lay count. But as a man, I believe that "getting it together" should be the lowest bar that we have. And dating women when you're hurting or have inner game problems can create more pain and suffering in the people we date.

Unfortunately, I think that's where most people are, which is why we have so much division and pain in our society.

To try and not hijack this thread too much...

In terms of approaches to dates, street approaching probably isn't the best way to go. But like what @DoWhatWorks mentioned, some people need to get in the numbers... some people need to push themselves outside of their comfort zones... some people need to try being social in difficult situations so that being social in an easier situation isn't a problem for them... some people need to build their confidence with approaching...

Ideally, every interaction you have with a woman leaves her better than before you interacted with her so when @Fuck This approaches, she's not pissy because two months ago some dude approached her the wrong way.

That's a difficult goal to have but it can mostly be achieved and not always up to you. But it's usually possible, even in short interactions where you get blown out.

If you really want to get into it, the problem probably isn't guys in a community like this, for the most part. If you guys don't know, I teach in the women's dating industry. And women tell me horror stories of times they've told guys that they weren't interested, on a guy's cold approach, and the guy calls them a whore, tells them they're ugly, tells them to go fuck themselves or whatever... which is probably just guys who have a lot of insecurities and being rejected on an approach triggers those.

So my guess is that most of those women with a shield, aren't being approached by dudes in here but some bro who is coming from an inner world of pain.

Alright, I'm going to stop now because I'm running off on tangents. I'm not a daygame guru by any stretch of the imagination so I'll leave the improvement tips up to some of the guys here who are a lot better than me at it... but my guess is if you keep improving, learning, and going out, it's just a matter of time before you get really good at approach to dates in the daytime setting.

 

[Will_V]

Back in the day, there was this guy named Craig who used to run around with David D. He had a saying, "It's always on"... which basically meant that if a woman was still in front of you, just assume she's attracted to you.

Obviously, it's great if a woman gives you IOIs and flips her hair, and giggles at your jokes, and turns her toes towards you or whatever... and it's important to be as socially conscious as humanly possible with women, since they tend to give hints and be more implicit with their communication.

But in order to really feel what's going on with a girl, you need a lot of interactions with them because the signs and signals definitely aren't always there. So if you're a newb, you need lots of interactions, good or bad, to build your social awareness of things... and no matter how much you've done this, unless you have some kind of really strong empathic abilities, some women you're not going to know what is going on with them.

The girl I dated who I met on the subway was like that. The only reason she became my girlfriend was because I kept moving things forward with her... I had no signals that I was aware of coming from her at all that she liked me outside the fact that she kept showing up and she kept letting me escalate on her.

That was it. I may have missed some of her cues but I've never dated someone who I could read as little as her before. At one point she said, "Isn't it obvious that I love you???" And I was like, "No... I actually have had no indications of you being in love with me at all..."

Women are like flowers. They come in lots of different shapes, sizes, colors, smells, and different things that make them unique and beautiful.

Each one is a different, unique, and special interaction... which is why this is called The Pickup Arts and not The Pickup Sciences.

I like submissive women... women who are shy and like me taking charge of things. Many times, those types of women are loud and expressive but they're often quiet and reserved and don't show a lot of interest.

And if I was waiting for IOIs, I'd miss these girls and that would be a shame.

I'm glad that we can agree that IOIs aren't necessary for an approach. You're right that they're desired.

I think there are a lot of assumptions that you're making here in your post that aren't necessarily true... I know some people who have horrible inner game who have a high lay count. But as a man, I believe that "getting it together" should be the lowest bar that we have. And dating women when you're hurting or have inner game problems can create more pain and suffering in the people we date.

Unfortunately, I think that's where most people are, which is why we have so much division and pain in our society.

To try and not hijack this thread too much...

In terms of approaches to dates, street approaching probably isn't the best way to go. But like what @DoWhatWorks mentioned, some people need to get in the numbers... some people need to push themselves outside of their comfort zones... some people need to try being social in difficult situations so that being social in an easier situation isn't a problem for them... some people need to build their confidence with approaching...

Ideally, every interaction you have with a woman leaves her better than before you interacted with her so when @Fuck This approaches, she's not pissy because two months ago some dude approached her the wrong way.

That's a difficult goal to have but it can mostly be achieved and not always up to you. But it's usually possible, even in short interactions where you get blown out.

If you really want to get into it, the problem probably isn't guys in a community like this, for the most part. If you guys don't know, I teach in the women's dating industry. And women tell me horror stories of times they've told guys that they weren't interested, on a guy's cold approach, and the guy calls them a whore, tells them they're ugly, tells them to go fuck themselves or whatever... which is probably just guys who have a lot of insecurities and being rejected on an approach triggers those.

So my guess is that most of those women with a shield, aren't being approached by dudes in here but some bro who is coming from an inner world of pain.

Alright, I'm going to stop now because I'm running off on tangents. I'm not a daygame guru by any stretch of the imagination so I'll leave the improvement tips up to some of the guys here who are a lot better than me at it... but my guess is if you keep improving, learning, and going out, it's just a matter of time before you get really good at approach to dates in the daytime setting.

You have some great points here. My comments were more about the general case of what constitutes a good approach to learning seduction. I expect every self-respecting guy to do whatever they need to do to get where they want to go. So did I - although the few times I have spam approached I don't think it helped at all, and probably slightly fucked up my game. The only good thing about it was the satisfaction of knowing that I could take brute-force action if necessary.

One thing that's confusing to me is how a guy expects to be able to do a ton of actually decent approaches in a single day. After ten or so, I feel psychologically spent. And I think it's because I actually pay intense attention both to the woman and to myself, letting a lot of information in and concentrating on calibrating my conversation and body language to the situation. And I don't think anyone can expect properly connecting with a random stranger to be any easier than that, although I think it feels easier as you get better.

I also never go in to an interaction knowing what I'm going to say. I know the steps - but I can't with a straight face go up to a woman and unload some canned line unless it happens to suit her perfectly. And after the first thing comes out of her mouth, either I'm going to come up with something relevant on the spot, or I'm probably wasting time.

The bottom line of this is that I have a lot of things to reflect on after an interaction - and a lot of things to potentially learn from.

That's why I think many guys who spam approach are half-assing it, doing it more as an expression of frustration than properly investing in the learning experience, and probably getting very little in the way of skill building. Seduction is already a very low-feedback learning experience, rejection doesn't come with a score card and a list of things to work on. When you are at the bottom of your game, spamming and getting rejected left and right, you're busy enough putting out the fires in your own self-esteem to be paying proper attention to the subtle signs of something you might have done wrong.

Anyway, it's all just by the by. Guys can do what they want. But if they respect themselves and the women they are talking to, and have some respect for the basic tenets of socialization, I think they would do well to do a proper job of trying to connect with her and treat her in a way that could conceivably be the way she would ideally want to be treated, rather than just hoping they can somehow hit enough targets to wrangle someone into bed before either their repertoire or their self esteem gives out.

 

[DonGately]

Find your niche/Birds of a feather -- I was thinking about writing a separate post about this but here makes sense.

You want more of your #close or kiss-closes to convert to dates and bangs? Realize you're not going to get every hot girl and focus your time on those you like the most who are also the most likely to be in your niche/Venn diagram of interests, location, SMV.

My niche is 'smart, fit, facially above-average college girls [19-24] who are fashionable and kinky/submissive.' I can narrow my potential range down in a bar, or in a park, pretty quickly with that as broad as it sounds. But the key is that I present to them someone who is: smart, fit, fashionable, kinky/dominant, successful/older. Most kinky/subs are going to want/need older guys to bang anyway. Most college girls are looking for new experiences -- from going on a date to a guy twice their age, or trying whiskey, to being caned and triple penetrated with toys/my cock.

Is she studying postmodern fiction? There's my opener.
Is she wearing stiletto heels, Stuart Weitzman boots, Louboutains? Or expensive designer skirts? Opener.

College girls today have no problem showing off their tattoos, chokers, collars, reading BDSM in public. Opener. 'Is that [points to choker/collar] a fashion accessory or are you about that lifestyle?' You can't always tell a girl is kinky but you can always tell a girl who wants you to know she is. She's either going to laugh and be like, Nooooo it's just fashion! Or look at you and let you know what she's looking for if she's DTF with a dominant guy who has game. I've met girls in bars and taken them to strip clubs 10 minute later. That girl is gonna want to fuck you.

She's looking at my custom suit and Charvet tie, pocket square? Opener. Girls love a guy who can dress. Re-read what WIA said. She knows my outfit costs more than all her clothes back in the dorm combined.

She's drinking a mojito and I do too? Or she's thinking about what to order? 'X is really good here...' Etc. She wants to go to a casino? I love gambling.

It's like mirroring but with your whole lifestyle & presentation, not just your words. That is when I made the leap to solid, intermediate game that gets 19-21yr old hot, smart, kinky girls on a consistent basis. I do live in a big city so that helps.

But I can't give a barefoot, hippie, country-loving girl what she really wants. If she's hot of course I'll still approach her, maybe she's horny, maybe she's mad about getting dumped. If I don't get a green light I bounce. But you should be spending 80%+ of your time hunting down girls who intersect with the most parts of your Venn diagram -- who you actually are in real life. Congruent with your exterior and inner game.

If you don't have a niche, find one. You don't have to be an Adonis. You don't have to look like Brad Pitt. You don't have to drop stacks of cash on them. There's plenty of hot green/amber light girls out there waiting to meet you.

The way to move the needle from 1/6 to 1/3 even 1/2 is to pre-select better. Quality, not quantity. I can't open every hot girl I see every day, I'm just not wired that way, more power to those of you that can.