Break Ups How to proceed with an ambiguous breakup

[TomInHo]

Like @Chase said the frame is all messed up. She needs to be trying to please you too

But this relationship seems like you’re constantly trying to make her happy. Which is ironic because women don’t really want that

You’re going by the saying “happy wife, happy life” which is pure BS

The reality is more “Happy man, happy wife” because deep down women want a man they can submit to. A man that they have to bend rules to be with

But right now you ain’t that dude but I get it, because it’s probably due to lack of experience

You don’t really know what you want and probably have no goals with this relationship, hence why you’re just flailing around trying your best to keep it together

But in my opinion every man should enter relationships with a CEO Frame. Meaning you are the head of the company and you hire people that are qualified to be in certain positions while constantly do employee evaluations.

Promote employees that are crushing it and align with company values

And employees that aren’t performing up to par, you give correction and training to improve performance, demote to a position that matches their current skillset or kick them to the curb all together and get better ones that align with your company culture and goals

The CEO’s job isn’t to make his employees happy. His job is to get the best out of them so he can accomplish his company’s mission

Hence the mission always comes first, and you keep employees inspired and rewarded for following the mission

No employee is bigger than the company.

Hopefully this analogy makes sense on how to be more dominant in your relationships but honestly this one seems done.

Take the time off to really think about what you want out of your life and how women can realistically fit in to enhance it without you bending over backwards to please them

 

[DarkKnight]

I tried to avoid apologising again, I've said I'm sorry once, I won't repeat it, though I think I might have to say it once more when I set the frame. I also didn't want to say it won't happen again, I initially felt that this was pandering to her and begging for forgiveness but it didn't feel like that when I read your example.

you have a lot of bad precedence dude, doesnt matter that much what you are doing right now. All the other guys are right, eject and replace. I don't believe you can really understand anything we are writing to you because you are too invested and too much in repair mode despite trying to appear with "new found firmness". I would get rid of this horrible relationship, contemplate my mistakes and start with a new girl who is not batshit crazy.

Your biggest problem are your levels of emotional investment. You need to get rid of that first.

(Who am I kidding he will not listen.. .)

 

[TomInHo]

you have a lot of bad precedence dude, doesnt matter that much what you are doing right now. All the other guys are right, eject and replace. I don't believe you can really understand anything we are writing to you because you are too invested and too much in repair mode despite trying to appear with "new found firmness". I would get rid of this horrible relationship, contemplate my mistakes and start with a new girl who is not batshit crazy.

Your biggest problem are your levels of emotional investment. You need to get rid of that first.

(Who am I kidding he will not listen...)

Yeah he won't get it probably and might have learn the hard way

 

[enrico]

Thanks @Will_V that is incredibly insightful, I can see that she's still leading and it was a mistake to go and see her last night. I assumed this was an "escalation" window that I had to capitalize on, the feelings might change the next day missing the opportunity. I was wrong.

What I did miss an opportunity with was telling her she was being ridiculous last night when the argument started. (Thanks @Chase ) yes I thought failing to smooth this over was the fuck up but you're right I should've told her that this isn't normal and her behaviour doesn't make any sense.

I know her behaviour is bad, and I'm enabling it by trying to placate it, I just don't know how to tell her she's acting up without belittling her feelings telling her she's overreacting. She's blown it all out of proportion. I followed the article by hector about what to do when you're caught lying and it's probably not the best approach to this situation. I just lack the experience.

I can see that I made a little mistake and what she's doing is completely OTT and wrong, I just don't know how to say that to her. In trying not to react myself I'm placating which I know I shouldn't do.

I'm aware of the paradigm I should be operating from, but I'm not.

I agree that this is an opportunity to change my approach to drama. I have nothing to lose, it's very clear its over which is a wasted betaization attempt from her.

Thanks @Alpha13SC @TomInHo @Lover @DarkKnight

Enrico

 

[enrico]

She wants to meet tomorrow for me to collect the gift I gave her for her birthday. That doesn't give me long to meditate on this and come in with the best frame.

I think she's over reacting giving me the gifts back and saying she doesn't want a reminder of me.

I'm thinking of turning up and telling her:
Look, I think this is ridiculous, yes I lied but this has been blown out of proportion. I've apologized and it won't happen again. I can't do any more, I can't change what's happened, if you can't accept that we can't be together. If you don't want to be with me, I'll respect your decision. So are we done? Or do you want to continue to build our relationship together?

I think it's probably still a bit too nice, I don't mention how bad her behaviour is or how I'm a little wrong where she's really wrong. I'm open to all advice

Law of least effort for persuasion and ending on what I want - though I'm very turned off by her behaviour right now

Enrico

 

[topcat]

I'm thinking of turning up and telling her:
Look, I think this is ridiculous, yes I lied but this has been blown out of proportion. I've apologized and it won't happen again. I can't do any more, I can't change what's happened, if you can't accept that we can't be together. If you don't want to be with me, I'll respect your decision. So are we done? Or do you want to continue to build our relationship together?

you’re asking for her blessing to break up? you’re asking if she would like to relieve herself of the burden that is you, whom has done nothing wrong?

do you enjoy being submissive? do you enjoy being a soggy, weak-backed napkin? do you have nothing better to do than prostrate yourself before a half-witted banshee?

do you know why god put you on this earth? was it to be the punching bag of insane wenches? to serve seduction forums the gift of second hand embarrassment?

only you can answer these questions.

i think you like it personally.

 

[enrico]

Thanks @topcat I actually used the wording from an article by chase 7 tips to persuade women in the section of matching their energy levels. I used this for the frame work. In his example he says: "I'm not listening to this. So are we done? Or do you want to sit and talk like adults?" - I don't want to talk about this anymore with her, she either accepts that she's over reacted, apologises for her behaviour and we continue or we're done.

It also makes the breakup her choice, she has the decision whether it's over and I don't care either way. This just lets her know I've got a foot out the door.

You're right that I've done nothing wrong, this is an opportunity I'm using to learn and try the new paradigm presented. If this is well of the mark I'd appreciate an example of what I should be doing.

Enrico

 

[topcat]

Thanks @topcat I actually used the wording from an article by chase 7 tips to persuade women in the section of matching their energy levels. I used this for the frame work. In his example he says: "I'm not listening to this. So are we done? Or do you want to sit and talk like adults?" - I don't want to talk about this anymore with her, she either accepts that she's over reacted, apologises for her behaviour and we continue or we're done.

It also makes the breakup her choice, she has the decision whether it's over and I don't care either way. This just lets her know I've got a foot out the door.

You're right that I've done nothing wrong, this is an opportunity I'm using to learn and try the new paradigm presented. If this is well of the mark I'd appreciate an example of what I should be doing.

Enrico

you’re as insane as she is. good luck

 

[enrico]

you’re as insane as she is. good luck

@topcat I'm only doing this as Chase thinks this is a great opportunity for me to have that paradigm shift. This is simply experimentation at this point but I lack experience with this. I'm gaining experience points.

@Chase

(edit/PS: the reason I am not writing "dump her" is because I think @enrico has a great opportunity here to realize his approach to drama is totally wrong, and that if he can get it to click, all his future relationships are going to enormously benefit. IF he can have that paradigm shift!)

Enrico

 

[Will_V]

She wants to meet tomorrow for me to collect the gift I gave her for her birthday. That doesn't give me long to meditate on this and come in with the best frame.

I think she's over reacting giving me the gifts back and saying she doesn't want a reminder of me.

She's still leading you by the nose. Why do you care what she does with the gifts, after all the misery she's put you through? Unless they are family heirlooms or something, I wouldn't be wanting them back.

This is just another cycle of 'reel him in, attack him, let him suffer a couple days, cry on the phone, rinse/repeat'

I'm thinking of turning up and telling her:
Look, I think this is ridiculous, yes I lied but this has been blown out of proportion. I've apologized and it won't happen again. I can't do any more, I can't change what's happened, if you can't accept that we can't be together. If you don't want to be with me, I'll respect your decision. So are we done? Or do you want to continue to build our relationship together?

What do you think she'll say to this? You only have 9,999 other examples.

I think it's probably still a bit too nice, I don't mention how bad her behaviour is or how I'm a little wrong where she's really wrong. I'm open to all advice

Law of least effort for persuasion and ending on what I want - though I'm very turned off by her behaviour right now

Enrico

The reason I suggested cutting contact for a week is not for her to realize anything, but for you to realize what an absolute disgusting mess she's created and dragged you through.

I know what it's like to deal with these women, one of my girlfriends had these tendencies and almost pulled me under at a low point. Even though I knew what she was doing was crazy, every fiber of my being wanted to go and say the words that would make everything ok. Because what these girls express is repressed trauma from the past, and it comes out with all the force of someone who has been betrayed at the deepest level, who is truly panicking. And when that comes from someone you care about, coupled with guilt over some minor mistake, it really turns your perspective upside down. And over and over again you think 'surely there's something I can do', you go running in to fix things, and she lambasts you again.

You know why she attacks you like that? Because you are a placeholder for the creator of her trauma. Because you somehow evoked a little bit of that same feeling, it all comes up inside her and she turns around and attacks you as if you created all of it. And that's why you can never 'fix' things, because the trauma is in the past and out of reach, and you don't even really know what it is. But for her, because she has superimposed you onto the symbol of her Enemy, to viciously attack you feels like some kind of revenge, some kind of taking back of control from the things that caused her so much pain. Like a drowning person pushing their rescuer underwater, they are desperate to return to a feeling of stability at any cost.

That's why you have to come to terms with the reality of what's going on, in your own mind, and accept that you can't do anything for her, only she can help herself. Only she can do the work of separating events and symbols in her mind and putting them to rest - and many people in those situations never do. And that's why you have to solidify your own principles in your mind so that they provide conviction and satisfaction for you and boundaries for you that no one can make you cross, so that you are never pulled into a frame of insanity.

You aren't her savior, and she's not your fate. And as a girlfriend or wife, she's proved that unless she undergoes a huge personal transformation on her own, she'll just be a nightmare and destroy you both.

 

[Chase]

You aren't her savior, and she's not your fate. And as a girlfriend or wife, she's proved that unless she undergoes a huge personal transformation on her own, she'll just be a nightmare and destroy you both.

Yeah, I guess the danger here is that @enrico does not really grasp how dysfunctional this girl's behavior actually is.

He can tell it's sort of wrong, but he doesn't have that sense in his head of, "I don't need this crap. No chick is worth this nonsense," that lets you either cut the situation off or make the chick realize she needs to shape up pronto or she's out.

The one thing I would caution you with, Enrico, is that if this chick is disordered (and it sounds like she is), she will temporarily shape up if she truly gets the sense that you are sick of her shit and are going to leave. Then you'll get the bombardment with love and kisses and sex and affection, alongside her begging you to please never lie to her again, and just not see that female friend anymore, and you will be feeling so warm and fuzzy from getting her back that you will go along with it to please her.

Then it'll be fine for a while, until another blow up over another thing, and then you'll start placating and reassuring again, while trying to hold frame but failing... and this thing just drags on, and does not end well.

My concern here is that this girl colors your perception of women/relationships and makes you distrustful of women / feeling like women are a huge handful / whole lotta trouble.

When, really, it is THIS woman who is a huge handful and a whole lotta trouble.

Get whatever experience you can, but for the health of your future relationships you are probably going to be better off cutting things off, no matter how much sugar she tries giving you when she sees you're pulling away for real.

(I guess the other case here is... how old are you two? This feels like high school drama, really. I mean, if you're both like 16 or something and she's never had a real boyfriend before, maybe this actually makes more sense...)

Chase

 

[enrico]

Thanks @Chase I understand this behaviour is dysfunctional, I can tell it's wrong I just don't know how to shut it down. She's never been this dramatic before, when she's acted up before I walked away because I didn't need the drama, she'd phone me up, correct herself, apologise and we'd be fine. (I guess this was my first warning sign, unfortunately I lack relationship experience, my experience is short term FWBs).

I didn't want to tell her that she's over reacting and blowing this out of proportion to not belittle her feelings but I think I'd have been better doing this than placating so much trying to be unreactive.

I wouldn't agree to stop seeing my friends, male or female. I know this is controlling, betaization and very unhealthy. IF I do continue, and I'm very turned off by her behaviour right now and very aware how wrong my frame is here and how I need to improve drastically (again thank you all for all help and advice). I know not to flail in the future and to end things. This is my warning sign and opportunity to learn.

Thank you for your concern, I will take note that it is this girl that's a handful and they're not all like this.

She's 20 and I'm 31. I'm her first real boyfriend. I've realised her highschool drama tendencies with everything, I usually operate on she's being cute and silly but this one has clearly rocked my frame and I've not handled it well at all. I should be old enough to know better, but this is my longest relationship and only 2 real girlfriend's before her, both lasting 3 month before I exited because of the drama they caused. My lack of experience is really showing.

Enrico

 

[Chase]

@enrico,

Yeah, that makes more sense.

If she's 20 and you're her first real boyfriend... you're also a decade older than her, so she's going to tend to feel like there's a large power and life experience imbalance. That'll make her even more insecure / doubtful / prone to jumping to conclusions / inferiority ("Does he REALLY respect me? He probably likes that older girl way more!").

You only having had a pair of 3-month "left due to drama" relationships is good to know too. So you don't have issues leaving when there's drama... you just aren't great at handling it.

Okay. So then I go back to my original position, that this'll be a good learning experience for you.

She might not be grossly disordered if this is the first meltdown in however many months like this. It's only if it's a repeating pattern you can clearly say the girl has issues.

More than anything, she sounds young and dumb, and prone to making mountains out of molehills.

You've just got that deer-in-the-headlights thing going on, where you don't know how to deal with drama properly yet... because you are inexperienced with it too.

I think you've got enough advice here to proceed with. I'm not worried about you getting stuck in a toxic relationship at this point, given these details. Seems like you're fine extracting yourself from things -- but you also need to learn how to handle drama without busting up your frame.

One word of advice: when chicks are going crazy with meltdown stuff, that's not the time to empathize. That's the time to get them to knock it off. Once they calm down, then you can have candid, empathetic discussions. You can't reason with a person who's sobbing, screaming, or out of control. So, first order of business is doing whatever pattern interrupt you need to get that to stop. If she's legitimately acting crazy, for me the go-to is just to point out to her that she's blowing things way out of proportion and acting crazy.

(I once had a girl acting crazy, and I looked at her like she was nuts and asked her, "Are you INSANE? What the heck are you thinking right now? What is in your mind? You're acting CRAZY! I can't even understand it!" and she got all discombobulated and started saying she didn't know if she was crazy or I was crazy and she didn't even know her own mind. Eventually she chilled out and we talked it through... the source of the drama was a mutual misunderstanding. We sorted that out and all was chill again. But there's no way you're going to talk through issues with a woman who's melting down. You've gotta get her out of that before communication is at all possible. I felt a little bad for making that girl question her sanity... lol. Once she calmed down I told her she wasn't nuts, but her REACTION was, and that she needs to get that sort of thing handled. Sometimes you just need to get a chick out of some mental loop she's trapped herself in and get her to view herself from outside)

Chase