LR Insane resistance from married chick

[Landlord]

"had the third party been fulfilling the part of the contract that the woman expected of him, then this would have never happened to begin with."

Franco: I was with everything you said until the above.
THIS IS A MYTH.

Please, I call upon ANYONE on this board who was ever married (for at least a few years) to comment on this, for or against.
The idea that "if a woman is tempted to cheat, her husband must not be doing his job." is UNINFORMED.

Look, marriage is wonderful! It beats the shit out of bagging and tagging random chicks every night of the week.
But it is also a bit of work. We are all imperfect human beings with our faults and stresses, we all make mistakes.
And no matter how hot, or how wonderful a relationship is, it is unlikely that the same searing hot level of excitement and engagement will
be consistently maintained forever. There are good times and not so good times. There are conflicts that need resolving. There are worries and annoyances and perhaps even a few regrets, occasionally. Those are almost always countered by high points of total satisfaction. The idea that a 'slump' spells the end of the marriage is absurd. It's the beginning, not the end.

We are ALL attracted to other people.
We ALL have sexual fantasies.
We are ALL tempted to indulge our urges, despite our commitments.
And if we are tempted during 'the good times', then we are five times tempted during the rough times.

EVERY MARRIAGE has rough times.

Ultimately marriage is about PARTNERSHIP. And while I firmly believe that it is the responsibility of both partners to stay attuned to their respective others' needs and work to make sure their partner's emotional, sexual and practical needs are fulfilled.....the point is that without commitment (including fidelity, unless otherwise agreed) then THERE IS NO PARTNERSHIP. You can't be concerned about your partner's emotional needs and at the same time be doing something emotionally hurtful for your own selfish reasons. If there's a problem in the marriage, you have to fix it. It's your job, and it's a wonderful, blessed job to have.

Ahhh, but women. Those emotional, irrational, fickle creatures.
There are some women—strong, self determined—who are "relatively" impervious to "game."—And ESPECIALLY after they are married and settled.
But others——"I hate how women always know exactly what they want," said NO MAN, EVER.
Women really, really, really like attention. And women with a bit of insecurity CRAVE the shit out of it. They are insatiable.
For an attention-needy woman in a good marriage in a bit of a slump recently——attention from a suave, game-educated man is like water to a sponge.

In Byronic's case, this woman was CLEARLY conflicted.
She was enjoying Byronic's attention, and his coolness.
He's younger than her husband, it's exciting, naughty, etc.
But on the other hand——she is married, and clearly was uncomfortable with what she herself was feeling.
By agreeing to this thing with Byronic, and escaping whatever anxieties she might have with the marriage,
she is also escaping HER side of the responsibility with her husband.

We don't know the husband...it's true that he might be a real unredeemable dick head, and that the marriage might be doomed one way or another, and for the better.
It is possible. But since that information has not been presented, let's just presume that it's not that simple, and that the guy is basically human like the rest of us.

THAT is where empathy, restraint and judicious decision making comes in.
Using GAME to take advantage of a married woman's marital difficulty is not clever.
It's not admirable. It's not justified. It's not 'fair game.'

And it's sure as fuck not this preposterous notion of being a 'savior' in some way.
Byronic is not 'saving' this woman....he's just "looting the city while the walls are burning."
It's downright predatorial.

 

[Landlord]

On a personal note, those who follow my posts, know that I was married for over 5 years and that my wife cheated on me for a good part of that time.
It was not a short term casual dalliance, it was a long-term, serious breach of commitment and mutual respect involving password protection, track-covering, out of town trips and substantial financial expenditures.

She regrets the shit out of it.
She takes full responsibility.
We had a really terrific marriage in every way and were very well suited to each other.
So—Why did she cheat?
Was I doing a bad job?

In five years of marriage, I never know she was unhappy with any aspect of our marriage.
We had a great sex life, strong financial means, a comfortable home, lots of wonderful global travel, a great rapport, lots of laughter and fun, very attuned interests and friends....by all appearances to outsiders we had a perfect marriage. I certainly felt that way. We had been trying for 2 years to have kids—she couldn't easily—and I was perfectly ok with that.

I was not a perfect husband, but I was a damn good one.
And in any respects where I was not the best husband I could be, I would have been more than happy to improve if I knew what I was doing wrong.
She swears by that today, and I KNOW it to be true.

So WHY then?
A bit of a narcissism, low empathy for others including me, and no small amount of 'attention whoredom.'
She just could not resist attention from men.
Characteristics not uncommon for a woman.

As for the other man... he KNEW she was happily married. His interests were purely selfish.
From what I can tell, the guy had a good sense of calibration for women, and probably well studied in this very GAME of ours.
And he was relentless. He tried and tried and tried and tried and tried, until finally he found an opening, and he took advantage of it.
And once the initial breach was committed, it was easy from there, just as it seems to be with Byronic's case.

If Byronic really has Asberger's and can't relate to people with empathy, then I don't suppose it's possible for him to understand this.
But you young guys with 'normal' brain function, ——Stay away from married women.
We call it GAME because it's all in good fun. Everybody wins.

Until you start fucking with marriages and destroying other people's lives.
That's when it stops being a game.

This idea that "if you have high empathy you can make a good decision about whether you should or shouldn't" does not float for one reason:
9.9 times out of 10, you're going to be thinking with the other head.

 

[Whizzy]

Landlord,

I thought this is over?

You say i call upon men who has ever been married to comment that if a women is tempted to cheat, it is because he's not doing a good job? Well... screw you!!! because You make it as if that other men in this world including the guys in the board, has never been cheated or never been in a relationship, or let alone our fathers and uncles or relatives be in a longer marriage term than yours and the wife cheated on them.

You're selfish, you tell yourself you're hurt, when in five years of marriage you noted you never knew she was unhappy with any aspect of your marriage. You say you had a perfect marriage, and you felt that way. Well i guess you need to stop in your tracks and see where it went wrong for your side, because you indicating to yourself on her narcissism and low empathy for other people including yourself, that just make somewhere in your selection there, and yea maybe she doesn't feel it's a perfect marriage like you do. Forgive me for i am mean for being direct to you but i see you do nothing more than to preserve your bitterness and not find people to help you fix where it all went wrong.

You can't stop other guys from messing with marriages, but you do need to reflect upon yourself on your negligence on not noting about your wife and that persistent guy contacting her.

Zac

Zac he was asking for people's opinions I think, not taking a hit at one side or the other per say.

 

[The Tool]

was going to chime. but Franco and Landlord got my side covered

 

[TheWiseFool]

Yes Landlord may have been blind to some aspect of his marriage that needed to be worked on and fixed. However, I believe that if a man really does all that he can do to provide that "perfect" life for his wife/family, fulfilling the needs of provider, friend, and lover, than the problem lies with the other party. In regards to Landlord's wife, she fell to the temptation of cheating on her husband due to all of the attention she received from men. Let's all think about things that we do that we know we shouldn't do, but we give into at times because we just can or we can't help ourselves in order to satisfy the craving, the desire, the "itch" that we feel every time a trigger turns us on to such unwanted stimuli. You can be in a relationship with a wonderful girl, and be the best man possible for her, but what if she has a drug problem? Whatever our achilles heal, the dent in the armor, one's sweet tasting poison maybe, I think that a lot of self-control needs to be taken into consideration when allowing ourselves to be placed in proximity to things that negatively affect us and those we care about. What happens when you aren't around her when she needs you the most because you have responsibilities outside of spending time with her, such as work or school or some other mandatory occasion? Its on her to fight that temptation, that addiction, the wanting and needing. Its really fucking tough but all it takes is "just one time" to really screw things over. Just one time. The idea that "I'll just do it this one time" rarely works... We tell ourselves "I'll stop after this," or "I just want 'it' to go away," but the problem is those cravings don't go away for a long time or indefinitely. Married or boyfriend or girlfriend, if one party is giving their best, then it is the other party that messed up.

In the end, Landlord is right when he says, we all aren't perfect, we will all fuck up, there will be good times and bad times. At the end of the day, what is done is done. Things will never be the same because the past cannot be changed, but what matters is what we choose to do NOW, and the best thing a couple can do is FORGIVE each other. Forgiving ourselves for our wrongs. Forgiveness without the idea that "I get a free pass if I mess up," forgiveness without reminding the other party every moment of the day, but getting past what just happened and moving forward as one to try again and again at becoming even greater and better than what was once before.

Forgiveness is a thing that we don't see often in society. People hold grudges, avoid one another, try to "out" the other party. Its a difficult thing to do, especially when it comes to love... But I think it takes a lot of love to forgive and continue to give unconditional love to the person you call "my life partner," "my other half." I'm guessing guys probably think that it is weakness to stay with a woman who cheated on you, but its all perception. Life's what you make of it. How you see the matrix. We are the sum of our decisions. At the end of the day. We are the choices we make, regardless if life is working for us or against us.

All my words are just talk. I never know what I'll do in the moment because life doesn't always turn out the way I imagine it would be. But hopefully this helps in one way or another.

 

[Landlord]

Zac

I really am interested in knowing how divorced men feel about the issue.

As Wise Fool (wisely) said, that was not meant to disparage the validity of never-married men’s experience. I think most would say that a long-term co-habitation relationship approaches what it means to be married. The longer, and the more shared commitments, then obviously the more similar.

That said, when you break up with your girlfriend, you probably don’t lose your house, your car and half your life savings, go before a judge, pay alimony, reconfigure your bank and insurance accounts or deal with child custody arrangements. There really IS a difference.

Did I make mistakes in my marriage?
Sure I did. I’m human.
My ex puts my role at 10% ….I’d say it’s at least 20%.
But were it 50% or 80%, it does not matter—that is exactly the point I want to address with Franco.

As Wise Fool points out, People are not perfect, and relationships between people are not perfect. Every marriage has its challenges.

The idea that “if the husband was doing his job the wife wouldn’t be tempted” is a dangerous fallacy. It expects that ‘wedded bliss’ and its participants be near perfect, and makes the “other man” the sole arbiter of how good a job a husband is doing.

You have NOT been living under the same roof with the couple.
You do NOT understand each spouse and their needs.
You do NOT know the husband, the history, the challenges, or how the two of them interact.
You’re not paying the bills, taking the risks or walking the talk in any way.
Who the fuck are you to judge this husband or this marriage?
(I use you as the nominal third person, Franco---not “you” you)

By merit of our personal and powerful sexual desires of this woman—we have an inherent conflict of interests. Our judgment is compromised regardless of our level of empathy, and we are NOT in a reasonable position to determine that some ‘greater good’ would be served by gaming this woman into an affair.

I don’t expect much support on this next point, but I would also add: “Why is empathy limited to women?” Should we not have empathy for the husband whose life we are potentially destroying?
Is he not also a human being? Are we so callous and selfish that we are willing to cause so much destruction in other humans’ lives....JUST so we can get a little MORE pussy?

Come to think of it—are we so DESPERATE that we will spend energy on a married woman, risk making a big mess and risk that her suddenly enlightened, psychotic husband comes after us with a gun?

I thought a HUGE part of what is being taught here at Girls Chase is an ABUNDANCE MINDSET.
There is SO MUCH great, single, available, willing pussy out there already….

It’s amazing to me that any MAN, and especially any MAN committed to the arts of self-improvement, would set such a low standard for himself—just to get one more piece of ass.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Landlord, you look like an emotionally charged tyrant with all the incessant bullying and scare tactics. Part of that comes from your personal involvement in such affairs, which immediately takes you from a place of logic to a point of ranting. Your mental model is a representation of how you think the world should be - rather than how it is.

I'm completely and utterly against monogamy, as it is a contract that relies on the emotional stability of a human being at all given times. I'm not going to force a man or woman into such a contract. Because I don't respect the contract, as I find it morally wrong, I will sleep with anyone's girlfriend/wife/friend if she is up for it and I am up for it. And, if, like your fear tactics suggest,

that her suddenly enlightened, psychotic husband comes after us with a gun?

I've been taken to the range since I was 14. While most kids were playing meaningless sports, I learned a valuable skill. I'm going to handle a gun and act much more decisively than an emotional, irrational man who can't come to terms that he shouldn't try and lock people into experiencing a physical relationship with him, and no one else.

 

[Franco]

First off, I'd like to say there are a LOT of assumptions being made in this thread, and many of those assumptions don't have quite as much merit as some people here might think they do. I'm going to address as many of the important aspects of these assumptions as I can while still providing a clear argument for my reasoning behind my critiques.

(As a side note, I won't really comment on Byronic's situation here as I have already given my views as well as my advice as to what his personal situation is, and what it will continue to be in the future)

Ultimately marriage is about PARTNERSHIP. And while I firmly believe that it is the responsibility of both partners to stay attuned to their respective others' needs and work to make sure their partner's emotional, sexual and practical needs are fulfilled.....the point is that without commitment (including fidelity, unless otherwise agreed) then THERE IS NO PARTNERSHIP. You can't be concerned about your partner's emotional needs and at the same time be doing something emotionally hurtful for your own selfish reasons. If there's a problem in the marriage, you have to fix it. It's your job, and it's a wonderful, blessed job to have.

We've discussed marriage a bit more on this website recently, and there's definitely been some argument on what exactly a "marriage" is good for in society these days. Mainstream society has a lot of beliefs about what a marriage should be, but ultimately, I have to agree with the growing opinion that a marriage is a social institution established to create a productive, model society. It doesn't really take into account the emotional needs and concerns of individuals, otherwise the divorce rate probably wouldn't be as high as it is. So when someone tries to convince me that marriage is all about a "partnership," I tend to disagree. On the surface, that is what it is SUPPOSED to be about (and that is what society wants you to believe so that you "aim" for it), but in reality, a marriage is a contract. And contracts can't (nor should they) dictate emotions. So what you are trying to then convince me of here is that a woman should not be "selfish" by breaching this contract, but I could counter-argue and say that a woman shouldn't feel "trapped" by a contract to follow her emotional desires.

Which leads me to this...

Ahhh, but women. Those emotional, irrational, fickle creatures.

Multiple times we've mentioned on this website that women are emotional creatures by nature. They'll often do things that seem irrational or come across as fickle, but in reality, there's much, MUCH more to it than just a woman behaving in an irrational way. As a matter of fact, I've firmly come to the belief that women NEVER act irrationally, and that there is always a REASON (even if it's only for a fleeting moment) that a woman decides to behave and act a certain way. But in order to come to this belief, you have to have a deep understanding of women and why they behave the way they do under given circumstances instead of brushing off their actions as "women behaving like women." This is an insult to them, and you'll often hear women complain about how they feel "misunderstood." Assumptions like this are the reason why.

On a personal note, those who follow my posts, know that I was married for over 5 years and that my wife cheated on me for a good part of that time.
It was not a short term casual dalliance, it was a long-term, serious breach of commitment and mutual respect involving password protection, track-covering, out of town trips and substantial financial expenditures.

She regrets the shit out of it.
She takes full responsibility.
We had a really terrific marriage in every way and were very well suited to each other.
So—Why did she cheat?
Was I doing a bad job?

In five years of marriage, I never know she was unhappy with any aspect of our marriage.
We had a great sex life, strong financial means, a comfortable home, lots of wonderful global travel, a great rapport, lots of laughter and fun, very attuned interests and friends....by all appearances to outsiders we had a perfect marriage. I certainly felt that way. We had been trying for 2 years to have kids—she couldn't easily—and I was perfectly ok with that.

I was not a perfect husband, but I was a damn good one.
And in any respects where I was not the best husband I could be, I would have been more than happy to improve if I knew what I was doing wrong.
She swears by that today, and I KNOW it to be true.

This is not going to be an attack on you in any form, Landlord. But it will be an uncensored analysis of what I see here.

It was not a short term casual dalliance, it was a long-term, serious breach of commitment and mutual respect involving password protection, track-covering, out of town trips and substantial financial expenditures.

This is quite significant. And to me, it speaks volumes more about your relationship than you might (probably) realize. Your ex-wife went absolutely out of her way to make this an ongoing affair behind your back. What this says to me is: there absolutely was something she felt was missing from the relationship between you two that caused her to keep going back to see another man. It wasn't some "thrill" of being hit on by some young charming man, because if it was, it would have been a quick "roll in the hay" at most (like Byronic's report), possibly with some regret on her part or possibly not. Either way, there was something he was giving her that you were not. For me to try to guess what this is would be an insult to the fact that I do not have a script of the five years of your relationship, but it does tell me that there was something significantly amiss.

The problem with women is that they have an abundance of needs that need fulfilling. If there is even ONE significant thing that she feels is not being fulfilled, then it will only build up and build up until she can't take it anymore and must seek it elsewhere. Now, does that mean the man that she is seeking it from is better than you? Of course not. And as a matter of fact, based on what you've told me, I doubt this man was nearly as good in comparison. And the reason your wife claims she "regrets" doing it is either because A) she didn't realize that that other man would not be able to fulfill all of the OTHER needs that you fulfill if she were to leave you for him or B) she didn't think she would get caught (as evidenced by her delicateness in attempting to cover her tracks).

So in the end, she realized you were OVERALL the better man. But you were certainly far from perfect in her mind. And this isn't something to necessarily be ashamed of. It's an eye-opener that there are areas about you that can be improved. And this is true with almost every man.

As far as how you feel the marriage was going, that is completely irrelevant. It doesn't matter HOW good you feel about the marriage if your partner doesn't feel exactly the same way because, when it comes down to it, she might just show you that she feels exactly the opposite. And if she feels like it isn't satisfying her, then it's eventually doomed to fail.

All of the above that I have mentioned is why you'll find that men who are extremely prolific with women (such as Chase, Ricardus, and Drexel) now have reservations about ever settling down with one woman in a traditional marriage. It becomes more of an internal struggle than a "partnership" -- you need to constantly be performing and fulfilling the needs of the same woman at the SAME level that you were when you first met, otherwise she is going to feel like she's losing that connection with you that she once had. We've talked multiple times on this website about how setting expectations EARLY and setting precedent EARLY is what will set the tone of the relationship. However, once you set those expectations, you absolutely must continue to keep meeting them at every hump, hurdle, corner, or obstacle that you encounter. The second that one of those expectations that you set from the beginning begins to falter, so does the relationship.

And for the man, there aren't too many things to gain from this (if anything at all). You lose your freedom to meet new women (and bed them), you begin to lose your sexual desire (and decline in testosterone), and you have to continually be performing at the level that your woman expects you to be performing (and this was determined at the onset of the relationship). In some ways, you can really see it as a losing deal for the man. The problem is, if you are going to commit to a woman in a marriage, you need to be honest with yourself about what you actually want, and if it's to continue seeing the same woman, then you need to make every effort to continue to fulfill all of her needs and desires. There will be moments where you may feel like not having sex; there will be moments where you will not feel like spending time with her; there will be moments where you might feel like showing weakness around her; there will be moments where you might feel like getting needy around her; and there will be moments where you will feel like not putting in the right amount of effort to keep her interest in you in every facet. And THAT is when another man, who she feels can fulfill that desire that you aren't providing, will have an opportunity to strike.

------------------
EDIT:

I really am interested in knowing how divorced men feel about the issue.

Asking a divorced man how he feels won't really give me (or you) any more information about this topic. Currently, the way I see it, you have ONE ex-wife -- therefore, you have ONE reference point to work with. The length of the marriage, although relevant in some matters, is not as important as how MANY marriages you've been in. I'd much rather a man who's been in four 2-year marriages speak about the differences between each one rather than a man with one 10-year marriage speak about his one experience. It's one woman, and chances are that these other men didn't handle their relationships the way it is suggested to handle them on this website.

On another note, the one thing that separates a marriage from a committed relationship is that it is now more difficult to fulfill a woman's fundamental desires because of all of the excess nuances that being in a contractual relationship brings.
------------------

This isn't to say that I'm opposed to getting married, either. Given the right woman, it is very possible that "settling down" might occur at some point in my future. I don't want to make that decision now, but I'm open to the idea of it.

You have NOT been living under the same roof with the couple.
You do NOT understand each spouse and their needs.
You do NOT know the husband, the history, the challenges, or how the two of them interact.
You’re not paying the bills, taking the risks or walking the talk in any way.
Who the fuck are you to judge this husband or this marriage?

The problem with your argument here, Landlord, is that a woman's fundamental needs are always the same. Yes, there will be external factors than can make FULFILLING these fundamental needs more difficult, but as is the case in all interactions that we teach on this website, it is the man's duty to LEAD and find a resolution.

I ALWAYS prefer to accept sole responsibility for how my woman feels about me. Anything less than that I feel is weak. It is trying to toss the blame on someone else and, what ultimately bothers me the most is that, it makes you not in control of your own life.

The reason I came to this website was that I lost a girl I was falling in love with. And based on the interaction, everyone told me she was to blame and that there was nothing I could do about it. They all told me I was better off without her. I HATED that reason. I HATED that I was actually not the one to blame -- and why? Because it means there was absolutely nothing I could do (or could have done) to fix it. From that point on, I vowed to learn as much as I possibly could about women so that I would always be in control of my own interactions and the outcome of my relationships. And it has been a wild ride, but I have learned more than I ever could have possibly imagined through Chase and this website. And I now feel (KNOW) that I am in control of my own personal relationships. I know that a relationship will last as long as I WANT it to last because I know how to MAKE it last. And that's what is most important to me.

And if you were curious as to what I learned about my interaction with that girl that I fell in love with? It was my fault she walked away. I didn't understand why it failed back then, but what everyone told me about her was false. It took me a long time to understand that, but when I did, it made me a much better man.

- Franco

 

[Landlord]

Franco—

Is the guy who has been in four 2 year marriages really our most credible source on 'successful marriage?' ;>)
My point is that (in my experience) there are some fundamental differences to the experience of 'dating' and 'marriage' that are worth noting in a discussion about the ethics and acceptability of dating married women. Maybe a different thread, if anyone is interested.

I'm not sure I see a particularly big distinction between my term 'partnership' and yours 'contract.' Both are an agreement between two people to share their lives together for mutual benefit. Like any agreement, that necessarily involves some sacrifices and compromises, but it also involves some really terrific upsides.

I don't want to get into the deep details of my marriage, but as to the 'volumes' spoken, my ex cheated prolifically on her first husband, the boyfriend before that and so on. The other man could smell it, didn't have any qualms about violating our marriage, and wouldn't stop until he got what he wanted. That's that.

You correctly identify that fulfilling a woman's needs, and performing up to her highest expectations of you is a really challenging task.
We are all going to fail sometimes. The beauty of commitment in a marriage is that we will be forgiven as long as we keep trying.
I did not feel 'trapped' by my marriage.

For those who don't believe in Monogamy, fine. Don't get married. Don't be monogamous. I don't have any problem with that whatsoever.
And if you don't care a lick that the woman you like/love/are attached to/whatever fucks other guys, cool, even more power to you.

But with respect to those two people who ARE married and have committed to work with the compromises and pressures and ups and downs of marriage——
---I say you have absolutely no business taking potshots from the sidelines. Forget 'morality' just have a little common decency and respect for other people.

There is roleplaying—using the right words and body language to be perceived by women as a strong man who leads.
And then there is actually BEING a strong, self-disciplined, self-aware and trustworthy MAN, who leads—by example.

If a dude is the kind of guy who just does whatever he wants, thinks with his dick, with no self discipline or respect for others, he's not a man, he's a boy.
And what woman can really trust such a guy?

 

[trashKENNUT]

Landlord,

For those who don't believe in Monogamy, fine. Don't get married. Don't be monogamous. I don't have any problem with that whatsoever.
And if you don't care a lick that the woman you like/love/are attached to/whatever fucks other guys, cool, even more power to you.

But with respect to those two people who ARE married and have committed to work with the compromises and pressures and ups and downs of marriage——
---I say you have absolutely no business taking potshots from the sidelines. Forget 'morality' just have a little common decency and respect for other people.

There is roleplaying—using the right words and body language to be perceived by women as a strong man who leads.
And then there is actually BEING a strong, self-disciplined, self-aware and trustworthy MAN, who leads—by example.

If a dude is the kind of guy who just does whatever he wants, thinks with his dick, with no self discipline or respect for others, he's not a man, he's a boy.
And what woman can really trust such a guy?

IF you must know, everyone says they do not believe monogamy after they sleep with lots of women, and i hear this a lot as well with my friends who just got a new girlfriend, or a girl they just sleep with.

I don't believe that rap, There's a saying "Never say Never".

Anyway, i just want to note that i have married women who throw themselves at me, not just them but women in relationships as well. I believe that even if you want to start a thread on married women, the do's and don't, i shall note that people on this earth have different goals and different interpretations. Given an example of what you have just noted on what is a "self-respected" man, The guy probably had different goals and different interpretations than to be a "self-respected" man, whether "respect" is an illusion, given the circumstances,interpretations,beliefs are all different to each individual.

and again, if we start a thread, Person A will disagree with you, and you will disagree with Person B, and everyone goes berserk, like now. My last note, you are ranting at the "wrong" people (that's how i see it, that's itself is a different interpretation btw) if you find me not "relevant".

I hope you find peace.

Zac

 

[Franco]

This thread has moved away from the initial discussion and become counterproductive. Unproductive comments have been removed. It will be locked until further notice.

- Franco