Journal

[bobbyb112]

I have a question about paying for dates when you're seeing a girl.

I've been seeing a girl. We meet up and will get food. When we do, she always wants me to pay for hers. However, I know that on days we aren't seeing each other, she pays for take out food, which is not cheap. I"m not against paying on our dates, but she has gotten upset when I don't pay for her food, at other times. She works a job that doesn't pay as much, and she lives with her parents currently. My question is, why does she get upset when I don't pay for her food, even though she pays a ton for food anyway when we are not on a date?

She seems nice and sweet otherwise. It just seems like she has it in her mind that a guy should always pay for any food or drinks when you are together. At other times, we have just met up at my place or hers. But she doesn't like "staying in" all the time, and neither do I. I'm fine to go out and get food. I just don't want to go somewhere, order a shit ton, and pay for her food all the time.

I guess one solution is to suggest lower cost food places for when we go out. That way it keeps the cost down regardless. I have suggested splitting the bill at expensive places, which might work. I just don't like the idea of a girl saying "you have to pay for my food/drink". I think part of it is, I should choose the place to go for the date, and suggest it. So far, she has been the one suggesting places to go, and they are nice, but on the more expensive side. I don't think she would be against a lower cost place. I just have to take leadership to decide to find places like that, and go to them, to keep costs down overall.

It's a bit new for me, because I don't eat out basically ever on my own. If you've ever worked at a restaurant, and seen how they make the food, you wouldn't want to have it either. Moreover, it is usually unhealthy. But, it is something to do, and so a necessary evil I guess. I will take it upon myself to find lower cost places to go, to keep the cost burden down for both of us.

It just irks me that she spends all this money on food for herself when she is by herself, and then expects me to pay for her food when we are on a date. Like, what the heck? Maybe it is just in her head, that if she is out with a guy, then he ought to be getting the bill. I'm not against that, as long as I choose the place, from now on. I like that approach.

 

[bobbyb112]

I've run into this a few times:

I have sex with a girl on the first date. I reach out about meeting up a second time and they say yes. I sometimes propose explicitly getting food, or just an ambiguous "hanging out". Sometimes they say something like "I want to go on a date, I don't just want to have sex, you know?". Sometimes they are down to just come over and shag, effectively.

I guess, how do I reframe the ones who "want to go on a date"? I could say like, "I want to see YOU", which gets the point across. Another option, just get light food (not a fancy restaurant), then go back and shag. Another option, explicitly say food is boring, I just want to hang out.

Maybe I should just drop girls who want this. It seems like they want something other than me (ie, things, rather than me). Also, it seems like older girls tend to say they want a "date", whereas younger ones are okay with just coming over. I am just now noticing this trend, amongst the girls I've been with.

 

[bobbyb112]

Here's how it's been going lately:

I've been on a number of dates from the apps. Something clicked in my "game", and I immediately became more witty, quick on my toes, and able to control the "frame" of the conversation more. This resulted in 3 first-date lays 2 weeks ago, which is not too crazy but regardless, went smoother and easier than it has before, as a result of this small breakthrough.

This breakthrough in my game, is sort of similar to feelings I have had in the past. Where you sort of "remember" how you felt in game in the past, and you remember it and use it and it works. THen you say to yourself "oh yeah, that totally worked in the past. Why haven't I been doing it all along? Why did I forget it?"

The reason why I had forgotten these feelings that work is, I haven't been super consistent with it all. So your progress slows, and you don't lock in learnings you had in the past. Maybe you get a "breakthrough girlfriend", and stop practicing pickup, and the gains don't get internalized. This has definitely happened to me, at various points in my learning curve.

Anyway, the lesson for me is, keep going, and don't stop by taking a GF or FWB. Of the 3 girls, 2 wanted to see me again. The third, I didn't try to see her again. But, I let things die down with both of them, because I don't want to get comfortable by getting into an FWB or GF situation. As a side note, the girls were not GF quality. So that made the decision easier, too, to move on.

But still, it was tempting to try to make something work with them, to keep them around, to play the FWB game. But that would just be delaying the inevitable. I can see why Chase says he only does GF or ONS, but not FWB. Because FWB is kind of no-mans-land, where the girl isn't good enough for you to turn her into a GF, and you kind of just string her or yourself along, until a decision is made, and it ends (or GF, I suppose).

Moreover, when things are clicking more in the pickup part of the process, you don't want to get tied down with a girl you aren't thrilled about. Thus, you drop girls after 1 sex, to make time and motivation to work on your game, with the goal of being able to pickup girls you would really want as a GF or wife.

Is a rotation tempting? Maybe sort of. I have seen multiple girls at once. But they are just FWB quality, and therefore not that fulfilling. I don't need to drain my balls every night just for the heck of it. Now, if they were all indeed GF quality, then that might be a different story.

Anyway, my challenge now is, find a way to get higher quality girls. Which means doing more daygame approaches, rather than using the apps. The apps are really a crutch. You can get so much higher quality in daygame. Maybe some guys have figured out Instagram game, and can get "normal and attractive" girls using that. But day game seems like the surer bet for me. I have done it in the past, and I want to do it again.

As far as how I'm using this journal thread, I don't really use this for lay reports, going detail by detail. The reason is, I prefer to learn by doing, rather than writing it out. Then again, maybe I could get better faster by writing it out. Maybe I will do that.

However, in my learning process, I generally strive to gain the feeling. When you have the feeling of it, the tactics flow. Maybe this feeling is the "vibe". When you have the vibe, the tactics just flow, and everything works. This is what I am striving for, and feel like I have felt more of recently. When learning any skill, you want to be able to feel it. Maybe that just means you have learned enough of the details and tactics so that you can respond the right way in real-time. This is sort of the holy grail, because you can just focus on the vibe, the feeling, and the actions flow. I could give an example of this, like when I met up with the girl the other day, and immediately was touching her like learning on her shoulders (she was short), in a dominant way. I could tell about that, and maybe I will. But I also value just feeling the feeling, and doing it. I don't know.

But, also, my ego wants to move up from level 3 to level 4 in the GC hierarchy. So maybe one day I will write out some detailed lay reports, to see if I can get my tribal ranking up . In life... If there is no ego, all there is is bliss. And bliss is boring. Girls hate boring. Therefore, show ego. That is part of the lesson, by the way.

 

[bobbyb112]

I've gone on a few dates this week.

A few questions. First, my standard date is to one location (bar), then try to pull her home from there. I've read others that recommend a 2-location plan, where you bounce her to a second place, then home. This also has worked for me in the past. Usually this happens when I meet a girl during the afternoon on the weekend, rather than a weeknight at a bar. What happens is, we get a coffee, walk around, maybe sit in the park, then maybe another coffee shop, then home. At least it has worked out that way a few times. Walking around can be good because it is movement together.

On night dates, with the bar I usually go to, it often doesn't feel super great to try to pull home. I usually go for it, and sometimes it works, but of course my consistency could still use much improvement. Looking back at my previous 4 lays, the 2 with girls I liked more were both during the day, and involved walking, getting coffee, walking some more, inviting home. 2 were from basically the bar. With one, it was one location (bar). With the other one, we went into one bar, it was full, so we went to a second.

The pattern I'm trying to establish is that when I move or have multiple locations with the girl, we get together. When I don't, pull rate is less. That is why I'm liking daytime dates, because I like to walk around, and stop and sit in the park, and keep going. With nighttime dates, I think I'm seeing more and more that it is rather important to do multiple venues. Maybe I will work that into my system.

One issue is, I don't like drinking that much, so it's like, go to the first bar, drink no more than half of the drink, then go to the next. Try to stay there for some time, drink half a drink, which I don't want, then pull. I just don't like drinking that much. Maybe I could save dates for girls that I really like, to make it worth my while. Or, if there is another idea somewhere in the articles.

This is perhaps less important, but I am also more tired at night than during the day. During the day, like daytime dates on the weekend, I have heaps of energetic charisma coursing through me. At night on a weekday, maybe not so good. But hey, these are the constraints we live with. Learn how to perform, regardless of how you're feeling. Also, take a nap during the afternoon, which I sometimes do, but don't always.

In my last post, I see, I talked about tapping into a new level or zone of seductive charisma. I sort of have that feeling still, although I think I need to tweak it for seduction. It is too jokey right now, as opposed to teasing. The difference between those is, you want to tease her. I don't know. I will have to play with it.

On the date last night, it seemed alright. We sat, talked. I brought her in, with my arm around her, her leaning her head on my shoulder. I'm not sure if this is good "seduction" or not, but it sure is a lot of touch. But when I went for the pull, she said she was tired and had to go home. I'm like, yeah, we're all tired, that's no excuse. Maybe she really was tired. But maybe that's why you need to change locations, to wake you both up.

I need to work on my sexy vibe. My deep dive vibe was decent, I guess. But sexiness is where you separate the wheat from the chaff. Sexiness is what makes it go from platonic (maybe she still invests and likes you) to sexy (where you and her are feeling sexual). In myself, this involves feeling sexy. How do you do that? Have I been doing that? Did I feel sexual while hanging out with this girl at a bar with her leaning against me and the lights dim?

I'm sad to say, not totally. I was thinking in my head. There is some sort of difference there. Maybe it is as simple as, feeling in my body more. Or relaxing my jaw. Something that is going to bring me from my head, into my body. Maybe I need to listen to music before going on a date. Or meditating. Or, dedicing that I "want it". Or, just acting sexier.

On a positive note, I find that touch is becoming more normal for me. I touch people regularly, men and women, and touching girls on dates is in the realm of easy for me. I feel like it is more just listening to my intuition, where after deep diving some, I"m like, I want to touch this girl. I want to hug her and move her close to me. So I start touching her more. This is good. It is a necessary step in the seduction. It is the act of a bold and sexy man. So that is good. Somewhat often (4 out of last 5?) the girl gets close to me and leans on me, when I pull her in. That is good.

Some girls, though, have rather closed off body language sometimes. Like the girl yesterday, I pulled her in, put my arm around her. But she is not really facing me, more facing the side, with her legs cross and arms crossed and not trying to face me necessarily. It's like, she is close, but her body language is closed and facing not towards me necessarily. So this isn't good. Where did I mess up? Why did she get close, even though her body language says not close?

Some girls, too, sound like they are interviewing for a job. That's not bad. It's just kinda weird. They sound like their answers are rehearsed or something. It sounds like marketing. They sound like they are good at talking with people, but that it's so good, it's not real. Maybe they need to take a play out of the intermediate seducer's playbook, and actually sound less polished, so they sound more real. Could be.

Maybe I need to breath deeper. Shallow breaths lead to shallow thoughts. Deep breaths lead to deep thoughts. And deep penetration. Deep.

Maybe I should just go on more daytime dates. Then, also, observe what works there, and force myself to do it on other dates, too, when I'm feeling more tired. Chase had a tweet recently about how you can observe what you are doing when you are feeling in the flow, and then do those things when you are not in the flow, to boost your performance overall. This is what it means to become truly proficient and advanced. You can perform the right things, even if you aren't "feeling it". You don't need to be "feeling it" to perform well. Because you are a pro.

Maybe I need to smirk more, instead of "congenial" vibe. Smirking is more sexy/ edgey/ aggressive/ bad boy vibe. The other vibe is more friendly vibe. Smirk is sexy. But I still need to get the feeling for it. The internal monologue of the sexy guy. I wonder what that is. Maybe I need to do the cute and sexy look more. Maybe I need to add more resonance and purr to my voice.

A problem I have with smirking, though, is that my face is sort of uneven to one side, and smirking seems to make that worse. Am I messing up my face more by smirking? I don't know. Maybe I need to sit with a straight back more. Even on couches where the seat is too long, so you have to slouch to sit. I don't know.

Maybe I need to watch comedy before going out, to get in a runner mood. I don't know.

How do I feel sexier? How do I do that before going out on dates, going from work mode to sexy mode? Maybe music is a decent option. I feel like that could help flip the mental switch, which would help me be more playful. Worth a try.

---

I wrote the above at night. Upon waking up, here are more thoughts:

Another thing to do, is to smile at her when you first meet her. For these girls I'm meeting on apps, when we meet outside the bar for the first time, I need to smile better. Because first impressions matter. It is like when doing street approaches, you want to smile first thing. Same for meeting a girl the first time in person outside a bar. It lowers her guard, and sets you off on the right foot. That is something I need to do more.

Another element in all this is, either being social, or going for seduction. Meaning, if you go into a date with the intention to be social, that's cool, but it doesn't lead to sex. For example, last night we had an interesting, enjoyable conversation. But it wasn't super seductive. It's like when you go out, you might start off in social mood, just warming up and being social. Then, you have to switch into pickup/seduction mode, and actually find a girl to pull. Social and pickup/seduction mode are different. I need to make sure to be in pickup/seduction mode, when going on these dates.

---

I just found a hilarious yet instructive video from Russell Brand.

Hooking Up Tips with Russell Brand

Maybe @Chase will have to do an article breaking down what Russell is doing, as he demonstrates his seduction methods in this video.

Just to start, you see that he 1. approaches 2. strong eye contact 3. similarity (about exciting things) with skiing 4. sexualizes (joke about her hooking up with her girl friends) 5. isolate, giving reason (although he also tries to skip steps by bringing her straight back to his) 6. get close while in a quiet place together 7. gets sexual compliance with the "you only live once" spiel.

There are a million other things to point out that he's doing, which are similar to what Chase talks about in his articles. Russell is indeed a master.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date tonight.

It was from an app. We met at a bar. We went in and had a drink. Talked about quite a bit of stuff. I touched, and she didn't move away necessarily. Eventually we started talking about shows and movies, so I described a show for quite a while. Then I said let's go watch and episode and she said sure. So we went back to mine to watch.

I put on the show. We sat on the couch. She was sitting crossed legged, hands in lap. I had my arm around her back and pulled to towards me some. She came somewhat, not a ton though. I pulled her head in for a kiss. Then went back to watching show. Then went back and started kissing again.

He didn't "melt", but went along with it. I started moving my hands on her arms and body, and placed her hand on my chest, but she pulled it away. She said she didn't want to do anything more. I said that was not a problem, and went back to watching and talking about the show.

A few minutes later I rinsed and repeated, kissing again. This time I kissed her neck and upper chest, too, and ran my hands on her boobs. I got one out, and started sucking it. Her hand was on my neck and head. Eventually she pulled back again, ever so slightly, saying "I don't want to go any further tonight". I said playfully "I apologize" "No need to apologize". And we went back to watching the show.

A few minutes later I went back to kissing. Same deal, but when I brushed my hand on her legs and vagina area, she pulled back and said she had to get up early for work tomorrow morning and had to go. She called and uber. While the uber was coming, for a few more minutes, I kissed her more and sucked her nipples. Then she left.

This was classic "willing to kiss and maybe boobs but no further". I have gotten this many times. In the moment, all you can really kind of do is stop, talk about the show or something else, rinse, and repeat.

I am of the mind that if you get to this point, and she is giving resistance like this, then eventually leaves, then you "messed up" earlier on, such that she hadn't made a decision in her head to sleep with you before going back to yours. I think I need to do a better job of making the sexual intention known, by getting close to her, basically. It's kind of hard, though, when you are on bar stools next to each other.

The transition and execution from deep-diving to sexual topics is still sticking point for me. How do I talk about sexual topics, or otherwise turn it sexual? Hmm. Another transition point is smoothly bringing her home. The show/movie angle seemed decent. It was natural to talk about shows, then to say let's go watch an episode. Other ones might be things you got from traveling, which you had talked about. Maybe I will try to get a good travel prop, to use as a pull line. The one I've used the most is "wine at my place", but this is a little too blatant. Also, this particularly girl didn't like alcohol, so that wouldn't work. Show/movie can be decent for daytime dates, because it fits more. Again, travel props could be a good idea.

Backing up to getting investment, compliance, buy-in to adventurousness and spontaneity is important. Sexual topics, coinciding with touch. Hopefully the touch is mutual, instead of that feeling where she is facing forward on her chair, hands to herself, and you are facing her, hands on her back or legs or whatever. Sometimes it's like this, and I don't like how it can feel like you are all over her, but she is sitting there uninterested. I don't like when that happens.

Buy-in (to spontenity, adventurousness, sexuality, etc) can be done verbally, too. I'm not sure how to set those frame necessarily, but I should develop some good lines for it. It seems somewhat repeatable. Just set a frame of "yeah travel is great because you are free to do whatever you want without judgement. That's the only way to live life, you know what I mean? Yeah. What do you do that's adventurous?". Part of it feels a little blatant. But on the other hand, if it works it works, and it's worth trying. That is a frame you are setting, which she buys into, and now you have set non-judgemental frames, which is good.

It's setting the right frames, especially around sexual topics, that I need to get better at. I have a lot of things to talk about for deep dive topics, and indeed find it fascinating to talk to people and understand things about them. I just let my curiosity lead me, and I find out things about them. Although of course I could do better, to find out about motivations and stuff. I'm still working on that, for sure.

Sexual topics is where I need some ideas, and maybe stock stories, observations, jokes, or innuendos that turn the conversation sexual. One I've seen is "that's what she said". Old reliable. I've never used that before, though, so maybe I should practice finding places and times to say that. Another element is feeling the vibe of the sexual topics. Like innuendo voice. This is when everything you say sounds like an innuendo. It is sort of sly and knowing. Maybe I should practice this.

Having sexual facial expressions, too, can help. I like that.

Maybe I just need to be more hungry, too. More horny. That might help, somehow.

Squinting eyes to give more mysterious vibe and voice is what I need. I used this a few weeks ago when I had a string of success, and haven't been doing it this week. I need to add that back in, to draw the women in, which makes the rest much easier.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date tonight.

We met at the bar. We went back to my place, but she was definitely not interested in doing anything. I pulled her over to me, using the "floppy test". This is when you pull her over next to you. If she goes limp onto you, then you are good to kiss her. She didn't. I tried to kiss her anyway, which she resisted. She said she was going to go. She got up and got ready to go and did.

As for the date itself, she was 30. I touched a bit, and got some investment. I was a bit surprised when she said okay to inviting back. She gave some back and forth. I said I had wine and if she wanted to go back and have some. She said is it white or red. I said I have both, which do you prefer? She said white. She also gave the excuse to herself that she had to charge her phone. So she was giving herself excuses, which isn't a bad thing.

It's weird going out with girls where you invite them home, they say yes or otherwise come, and then when you go to escalate they don't want to. Like, why did you come home with me, then? But that is just a bit of a weird zone I am in right now.

Do I tease more or do I tease less? Not sure.

As far as locations during the date, we got drinks at the bar downstairs. Then I had us go upstairs, because there were couches there. But it was too cold, so we went back downstairs and sat at the bar. I don't know if the movement there helped a ton, but getting some movement together in I feel helps.

Part of the problem with going on dates with girls let's say 26-30, is, is that you aren't getting the kind of feedback you need. Which is feedback with the girls you really want, which is say 18-25. The feedback I am getting might not be the most useful, because the girls are not my target demographic. So that is another reason to start street approaching, as opposed to using apps.

I focused a little bit on squinting today. Squinting helps me feel more relaxed, because I take deeper breaths. It makes me feel a little stoned, even, a relaxed, good feeling in the body that gives you a more carefree, chill, relaxed vibe. You can overdo this, sure. But it is a good vibe. It also makes you feel more sensual and therefore sexual.

For next time, my focus is on flirting, touching. Moving should be on the list, too, but frankly I don't want to go to two different venues on a weeknight. It just takes too long. I know that sounds lazy and it is, but I'm just recording it here as a way of reminding myself that there are ways to improve your results, and that is one. Another potentially helpful way of moving is to move within the venue. This gives you some movement, without having to go to a whole new place. That can be useful.

Squinting, flirting, teasing, touching, asking, kissing, escalating, deep diving, moving, sexualizing. All of these things become more in focus the more experience I get. This is indeed a skillset.

 

[OldGuy]

No real differrence between 20-25 and 26-30 women. with 18 some (not most) are naive.

 

[bobbyb112]

No real differrence between 20-25 and 26-30 women. with 18 some (not most) are naive.

Appreciate the perspective, @OldGuy . It is just cope on my part. I just need to get better overall.


I went on a date with a girl tonight.

It was one of those dates where we talk about things, and she won't get physically close, so invite home, she deflects, and no real bubble or vibe is built. We did talk for a while like almost 2 hours, and it was mildly enjoyable and entertaining, but not super flirty or sexual, no real sexual vibe, and then she didn't want to come home.

I need to just get close first thing on the date. Get close. This is a romantic date, right? Just sit right next to her, touch, etc. If she doesn't like it, she can leave. But not being physically close is death for seduction. Also, towards the end, it was that thing where she is sitting up straight, and looking forward, and hardly looking at me. Then, I have her come closer to me and I put my arm around her. But she is sitting straight as a log, and looking forward. I'm like, relax, girl. Chill the fuck out.

On the positive side, I was trying out some posture things for myself. I was smiling less fast, and taking a second to talk. It seemed to work, where I was "non reactive", except when it was good, like to tease her. We also went to a different bar than I have been taking dates lately. The new place was quieter, which made it easier to talk. I like this, because I like talking.

Moving in some manner could have helped. After a little bit of the date, she said how she loved to play bar games like pool and darts. This was a perfect segue to bouncing her to a different bar. But, I don't have one nearby in mind with those things, and moreover I wasn't mentally prepared to try to figure out on the fly logistics around going to a second place. In any case, this is an example where going to a second location would be totally helpful. I just don't have a good secondary place in mind in my standard process. It sounds like I just need to be more devil-may-care, and figure it out. Then I can have a good second place to go to, and use that on future dates. So I might invest in figuring out those logistics.

Building your dating process out is a work in progress. Where I lived last, oftentimes I would suggest going for a walk after we finished our drinks. I would go into a park nearby, and maybe sit, and maybe kiss there. Sometimes it helped. Then invite back. But at night, a park where I am is not really an option. I need a reliable second bar location, it seems like.

Tonight I was also working a bit on the "push" part of push-pull. Or, as I describe it, playfully disagreeing with girls. They say their favorite food is XYZ, you say "ah, XYZ?! I don't know if we can be friends", or something like that. It is playfully disagreeing. It keeps the conversation fun. Girls like fun. And girls like emotions, and emotional spikes.


I am trying to get more systematic about implementing things I'm working on, like pieces of tech. A few that are ongoing are:

1. Touch at the beginning: I should just touch all over her shoulders and stuff at the beginning, like I know her. I did this with a girl a few weeks ago, and the vibe went up very quickly. It turned into a sexual bubble. This was when I wrote a few weeks ago that I had had a breakthrough. I should just do this with every girl I go on a date with.

2. Playfully disagreeing: Have emotional teases to whatever she says. This is a push. It forces her to justify or quality herself. When she does, that is investment.

3. Changing locations / moving: When I do dates during the day, I have different places I can go with a girl, like a park nearby, a coffee shop we started at, another coffee shop, just walking around. I know of options, and I have done them. For nighttime dates, I have basically never done a 2-venue system. But I feel like I need to, because it seems like it would help. But I also don't want to spend a ton of money on drinks, nor drink that much. What to do? We'll see.

4. Deep diving: Going frame anything adventurous as good. Or spontaneous. Those are good frames for fast sex. Also, the idea of asking if she does anything creative, for example, then she says she does it, is good, because she is qualifying to you.

5. Seeding a pull: Somehow talking about things I have at my place that could seed a pull. My standard is wine at my place. Others could be looking at travel souvenirs.

6. Leadership frame: There is a physical posture I do with my body when I am leading. It then leads to a mindset, because posture affects mood and vice-versa. So I am practicing having this leadership posture as my default, and then it comes out in my behavior, voice, actions, etc. All this is good for pickup/seduction, because you are leading.

7. Wanting it: Getting more sleep to be more on top of it for nighttime dates? Only do dates on the weekend? I don't know the answer here.


Looking back, my frame was rather solid on this date. It wasn't a sexual frame, but the frame in general was strong. It felt like she was qualifying herself to me much of the time, even though it didn't feel very romantic/sexual. Kind of odd. But my point is, my leadership frame I believe did what I wanted it to. Now I just need to lead it in a more sexual direction.

I want to approach on the street, so that I can get more reference points in general, and work on implementing these specific things to improve my game. For day game, there's a whole host of things like genuine compliments, pre-opens, attention grabs, direct vs indirect opens, etc, that I want to try.

It has been kind of cool going on all the dates I have the last week or so. I've done 6 dates the 7 days. I know that isn't "a lot" for some of our prolific daters. But the more consistent experience I get, the more I can try different things out, which I'm starting to do more, and really develop a system. For the stats, 3 out of 6 came back to mine, but none closed. This is why I want to get into regular street approaching, because then I can get even more experience, faster.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date last night.

We met at the place I usually go for dates. It was full, so we went next door. We sat kind of right in the middle of the place at the bar, because it was pretty busy.

Here I will visit each aspect of what I am working on:

1. Touch at the beginning: I touched early and often, by putting my arms over her shoulders, on her back as I led her, then when seat, arm on her shoulders and back, and on leg at times. My goal here was to just touch as much as I could, essentially. The point being to be sexual, and if that polarizes her in the direction of nothing happening, then so be it. It's better than going through a date, you're sitting far away and not touching. With this girl, she didn't touch back, nor seem to be very interested. She sat in her seat, and towards the end, looked away and not at me. I don't get those girls. When they don't look at you towards the end. Maybe I need to do less, and so draw her in more.

2. Playfully disagreeing: I could have done this more or better. I want to practice doing this. It's easier when you can actually hear the other person. Bars kind of stink because you can't hear the other person.

3. Changing locations / moving: We had movement by meeting at the one bar and then going to the second. But there was no movement after that, which could have helped. A second location could have helped, potentially. Maybe you can do the first location, then if she doesn't seem ready yet, do the second, unless she hints otherwise.

4. Deep diving: I asked if she did anything adventurous and she said traveling, with a few trips she had gone on, including to Las Vegas (red flag? lol). I also talked about my experience traveling and it being exciting, and she said it was that way for her, too. That was my way of trying to reward adventurous activities.

5. Seeding a pull: I didn't seed a pull at all. I could have potentially done this with something tying it to my recent trip I took, which we did talk about.

6. Leadership frame: I didn't actually pay attention to this necessarily much. Instead, I was focused on my fun/sexy vibe.

7. Wanting it: My energy was alright. But I don't like using energy as an excuse or anything. Just execute.

More:

8. Sexy/sensual/fun/exciting/teasing vibe: I adopted a more sexy/fun vibe. I did this by smirking, which makes me feel more fun and exciting and whatnot. I think this is a step in the right direction. However, I need to tamp down the "excitingness", and instead have it be "simmering sexiness" that "oozes out of you. How do I do this? I'm not sure. Maybe squint? Slowing down my movements also helps with this.

9. Slowing down movements to be more sensual: This is what I want to work on. Fun is good, but sensual is better. Sexy and sensual. Smirk, squint, slow movements. I think this can come from tucking my chin. The last sentence is only for me, I don't think anyone else will understand what I am saying. But for me, when I tuck my chin, I seem to be able to lead, hold frame, and move slowly better.

10. Sexual topics: We had some moments that might've been sexual. One story went in that direction. But I need to work on getting my innuendo voice down. This goes along with being sensual and slow. That could have made the innuendo land better. Sexual topics require a vibe, which I am trying to develop.

11. Having her show me stuff: I had her show me her earrings. Okay as far as getting touch. I would love more ways to do this. But I am just trying a lot.

12. Back posture: I need to sit up straight better, with a straighter back. This will help with slow, sensual, powerful movement, instead of when I am slightly slumped forward, and it is harder to be sensual or slow. Problem is, I have a boney butt, and sitting up straight in chairs usually hurts my butt. First world problems? I'll flip it on its head: how do people sit up straight without hurting their butt? Questions.

13. Amused face: Have a more smirk/smile and amused face, rather than smirk/smile and "bright" face. This stamps down your excitedness, and make it more cool, calm, and collected. Amused face. Amused face, smirk/smile. Sean Connery does the amused face well. And the smirk/smile. Maybe I should just start watching him every day. The amused face helps with sensualness, too. The face is the remote control to emotions/vibe. Have the relaxed facial expressions you want. Relaxed into an amused face is good. Relaxed, but in a resting bitch face, is not so good. But relaxed face is good.


How did the date end up? She said she had to go home to bring her cat to her friend's house, because she was going on a trip the next day. We had met up straight from work, which is generally not good as far as logistics. I kind of expected this going in (and hopefully didn't subconsciously sabotage myself as a result). We parted ways. She unmatched on the app shortly after (she had wanted to do logistics through the app instead of by text, as some girls do. I usually avoid this). No false interest there!

I remember a piece of advice, which was no matter what conversation you are in, be the most comfortable in it. I think this advice was for sales, but it probably applies to seduction, too. Always be more relaxed, the most relaxed or comfortable person in the conversation. Even if you are trying new or different things, be the most comfortable. Probably good advice. Along with this is smiling with your eyes. You know how you can smile with your eyes? Do this. Because it is law of least effort. If you can convey approval of something, warm feelings, warmth, etc, through just your eyes (and the small muscles around your eyes), that is powerful. It is law of least effort. Squinting is part of this. This isn't the end all be all. But it can be helpful.

Another thing is breathing deeply. This helps you feel comfortable and grounded. I want to do more of this. How do I do it? Practice, I suppose. Practice feeling comfortable, and breathing deeply. Back posture helps with this. Back posture allows you to breath deeper, which calms you down, relaxes you, and makes you more chill. What helps with back posture is spreading your legs. No, really. Sit with your legs out facing wide, and it makes your lower back more straight. Don't as me why. It just does.

Wide legs->straight lower back->deeper breaths->calmer, more grounded, relaxed in body and facial muscles->more sensual vibe->sexier->she thinks you are a man. This is my new operating system. Particularly remember to do it when sitting on bar seats. Be relaxed. Spread your legs. This is the way.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on two dates yesterday.

The first I met outside, and we walked to get a coffee. We got coffee, and continued on to the park. We sat and talked. Throughout this time, I was deep diving her. At the park, we sat right next close to each other, and had some "tension" moments of more sexual tension. I invited her back to watch a show. She said sure. We talked for another few minutes, then went. Back at mine, we sat. We kissed once. We kissed again. I started escalating moving my hands over her. I pulled down her shirt and sucked on boobs. I moved my hand over her legs, then vagina area. She moved my hand away, and pulled back, saying "I don't want to have sex today." I said "that's not a problem", and we went back to watching the show.

We did this 2 or 3 more times, starting kissing again, which she was totally fine with. Me moving my hands over her, but when I went over her vagina, she pulled back. I put her hand on my dick, and she rubbed a bit. When I started to run her vagina though, over her pants, she pulled back again.

After the 3rd or 4th cycle of doing this, she said she was going to go. She got up and put on her shoes. We said goodbye, and she left.

On the second, this was a second date from a first date the week before. We met at a restaurant where we were going to get food, but the line was too long. We walked around, stopping in a coffee shop to get food, but they didn't have any, so we went to a second. After eating some light food at that place, we walked to a park and sat and talked. Then walked to a second part and talked. Then walked to another coffee shop and sat and talked. Then we left.

For the first girl, she was giving plenty of investment as we talked and walked, I thought. I also was telling her the things I liked about her, like the creative thing she did, and the adventurous things she did. That was good, I thought, telling her what you like about her. This increases attainability because she feels you like her for her. Sitting at the park, is when the sexual phase comes into play. We sat close on the park bench. She readily sat right next to me. She was Brazilian, and I find that girls from other places are often "easier" or "warmer" towards me.

She sat close. At times we looked at each other, and got our faces close to each other. It almost felt like we were going to kiss at one point, but I pulled away, because I didn't want to kiss out in public. During this, I used a more subdued voice, which I hope also felt and/or sounded sensual. It felt more intimate for me, and this is good, because I had been trying to remember how to have a more sensual or intimate vibe. This is how to do it. Talk softer, kind of curl the corners of your mouth, and flare your nose a little to give it depth of breathing room. Those details might not make any sense to anyone reading this, but it helps for me in how I think about it. I have used this in the past, as recently as a few months ago. So it is good to remember it.

My leadership vibe could potentially have used more work. I didn't put my leadership had on totally. Also, at the beginning, I sort of wasn't warmed up, and it got me a minute to get going with conversation. It was also cold out, so I was sort of just shivering, too. When we walked, she laughed a bit. Sitting on the bench, it was close, even almost getting to a kiss. At home, during escalation, she said things like "maybe I should leave" after the second time. And "I didn't want to have sex today" on the third.

One thing I wonder, when you first meet her, this girl was from an app, should I hug, or maybe a hand clasp? Or, strong, somewhat prolonged eye contact to let her know I mean business? What would start out the in-person interaction out right, right from the beginning? Not sure.

I think the movement helped. Meeting one spot, going to the coffee shop, going to the park. All of these things build compliance, when you say "let's go to the coffee shop" and she says "okay". When she tells you things about herself, it builds compliance and investment. Those are good.

Where this seduction went off the rails, in the escalation, would that be considered LMR? I'm not sure. It seems like over time, there have been lots of girls that will come back. Then, you go to kiss them. I do what Chase recommends, and do sort of manhandle peck on the lips. Then pull back and look at the computer you were watching. The idea here is to show her that you're not going to get all weird because you kissed. Then, you go for the second kiss.

It is right on this second kiss that you can tell if a girl will sleep with you, or if you will get resistance. That is, if she passes the floppy test (you pull her over to and if she comes and leans into you), then she will let you kiss her. Good. Then, on the second kiss, you can tell if she is down to have sex, or if she will kiss, but go only to boobs, then no further. This has happened countless times for me. On these seductions, she kisses, but often she puts her left hand on your face or neck. It feels like a way to control you, to push you away, or do the thing where she gives hard kisses, three hard fast ones, then pushes you away.

So if she puts her left hand on your face or neck, she is not down yet. Often I try to move her hand to my chest. Sometimes she'll leave it there, sort of just touching, but not really feeling with it. She is still holding back, overall, even though she is down to kiss. Then, you escalate. Most girls will not stop if you pull down her shirt and start sucking boobs. Most girls are okay with that. Some won't be, and that will cause them to pump the brakes and "woah partner". But more than half are generally okay with boobs. Then, as you move your hands over her more, somewhere around rubbing her pussy, she will put on the brakes. Then she'll say she has to leave. This could be after one cycle, or 3 or more cycles.

I want to prevent LMR. I want her sexually primed, having decided for herself that she wants to sleep with me, before getting to that point. in the flow of the seduction, according to Chase, there is the point where she "gets quiet". That is when she is deciding if she wants to have sex with you. I think I need to be more quiet in this moment. For example, with the first girl today, when walking from the park to my place, I kept talking, about things that don't matter. I don't want to go serial-killer silent. But I wonder if having those moments be silent, it would allow her to decide for herself if she wants to have sex. It's kind of like, don't distract the person when they are trying to make a decision on something. They need a moment to think. So be quiet. That might be helpful, although I am not sure.

I think this seduction shows a little bit of the power of expecting the best. Meaning, this girl was coming from at least an hour away to meet at my city. She was also foreign, which usually means she is more open to things happening. At least that is a mental model in my mind. So I perhaps expected things to go well, more, so I made them happen more, which meant they did. In other words, wanting it, expecting it, and making it happen. It is mental alignment, and it seems to be a thing. Or at least not mentally sabotaging yourself. These are all thoughts that you should monitor in your head, to make sure they are serving you.

This girl was also attractive and young enough for me to get excited. There are times when I am somewhat dreading seeing the girl, because I might not be as attracted to her. This is a mental limitation, though, too, because I should decide to be attracted to any girl I go on a date with. Another version is to not go on dates with girls that I think I might not be attracted to, or want to have sex with. I don't know. I'm trying to lower my standards. But I also want to be excited about the girls I go on dates with. But, right now I'm also using apps as my primary lead source. So girls that you are really attracted to are few and far between. But doesn't that mean they should be easier to have sex with? Not if you don't approach the seduction like you want to be there. I will have to monitor these thoughts in my head and see what I can find.

For the second girl...

We had gone on a date. She was kind of funny, because her vibe, she was rather forthright, although didn't want to come home with me. Fair enough. On this second date, we ate. Sitting on the park bench, I invited her home, and she said she was religious. We got into a conversation about her "boundaries" related to her religious beliefs. I asked if she had had sex before and she said no. We talked about it more. I frankly gave up on any seduction after she said it, also because I didn't find her attractive enough to persist hard with (see paragraph above about going on dates with girls you actually find attractive). But I decided it would be fun to hang out more, and maybe talk about her religious stuff as it relates to dating, and otherwise just hang out longer. She was generally cool, good at being curious and conversing, but not very "sexy". Which is too bad! I like sexiness in women. Especially voice. Some girls just got it. Same with guys. Some have it, some don't. I certainly try to have it.

We sat and talked and walked for longer. She had never had sex, and now wanted to "settle down and have a family" at 27. I certainly hope her plans work out. She wanted to save sex for marriage, for the guy she gets married to. Heck, maybe she's got the right idea. Little or minimal sex before marriage. I think this works if people are expected to get married at 21. Or if contraception wasn't a thing. But in today's world? Well, that's why we're here on this here dating and seduction forum. I guess it is a good reminder, though, that, according to Chase's article on lifetime partners a woman has, the median is 3. Meaning, much less than you'd guess scrolling Instagram. Or the median of girls on tinder. Interesting.

On a different note...

The girl I went on a date with 2 days ago, I had texted her this afternoon about getting dinner or food sometime this week. She responded with the classic "I df". Usually, I would just satrry "cool, np" and that's it. Or just not respond. But I realized that I can just ask girls if they have any feedback, and she might respond something and you can get another data point. So I asked "what did I do or say that caused you to feel that way?". She responded "I guess I wasn't expecting to come over. (I had invited her back twice, both of which she said no to). maybe I read it wrong but I'm definitely looking for something more serious and it seemed like you just wanted to hook up ... I apologize if I read the situation wrong".

Interesting. I haven't responded yet, but I might respond something like "the best things start passionately. I was sincere in saying I wanted something serious, too". This is essentially the same reframe from the LMR-busting line "I don't think of you any different if something happens tonight.. all great things started passionately". I haven't sent anything yet, so I'm not sure what if anything I want to respond with.

It shows why you can't and shouldn't have a "serious" conversation with her about "what you each want" and "what you want from a stable family" on a first date. Why? It puts girls in logical mode. People in logical mode don't buy. Even if they "want" to have a family and date seriously and whatnot, they couldn't force themselves to if they wanted to. In other words, girls almost always have to be seduced. Even 30 yo women who "want a family" need to be seduced. Or, as a man, it probably won't work to get a women for the long term by going in with "logical mode". On the date, we talked about wanting kids and a stable family and whatnot. This is bad, because it sets you up to do "serious" dating, i.e. not fun. So, I don't think this is very salvageable. I guess I might try though. It's funny how far apart a male and female dating strategy can be. For example, hers might be "have every high-value male love me and want to be with me" and for male it is "have every not-fat woman sleep with me." And somewhere in the middle they meet.

I went on a third date tonight.

3 in one day, that's probably a new record for me, maybe. We met at a bar, but it was crowded so we went next door. We sat and talked. I asked about the program she was in, which was theater. I was genuinely curious about it, so I asked a good amount of questions. Asked where she was from. Shared some about me. Eventually I had her come sit next to me "so I can hear better" (the music was legit loud). We talked more. I put my arm around her shoulders, and sometimes on her leg.

I asked if she wanted to have some wine at my place. She said she didn't go back to someone's on the first date. I said that was fine. We kept talking. Eventually I said I had to leave soon. Then after a few minutes we paid and left.

What I did well, I felt, was deep diving. At the same time, how do you know if you deep dive well? I said how I liked that she did X creative thing, and Y adventurous thing. That is good, I felt. I'm liking the idea of saying what you like about her that is creative, because I like creativity, and adventurous, because I like fun/adventure. She also said she cooked, which I said I liked, because I like that as well, and she told me about some of the cooking she did.

It just kind of fell flat when it came to the sexualization section. Then we run out of things to say, and resort to non-personal banter about whatever is going on, like the sports game on TV, or the bar we were in, dogs/cats, etc. This has happened on other dates, too, where we run out of things to talk about, and it goes quiet. Which is fine for me, I don't feel awkward or anything. It just isn't great for the date.

I had her show me her jewelry, which was helpful for compliance. I could have, again, used a multi-location setup for this nighttime date. But I am not in that state of mind, yet. Maybe somebody can convince me why multi-location is the true way to go.

I guess the part I'm having trouble in is sexualizing, and getting what I need there. For example, in deep diving, I feel like I can get what I need. But sexualizing, I just don't get the buy-in I need there. Another thing is, when doing a date at a loud bar at night, you can't really hear anything. Thus, it is hard to use verbals. For example, my subtle innuendo goes unheard in a loud bar. What to do? Maybe get less subtle.

So, plenty to work on.

On a related but different note, I walked by the bars. They were packed! It might be useful to go out at night on weeknights or the weekend, just to get more reps and whatnot socializing. I'm not really sure what the goal would be, necessarily. I guess I could talk to girls there, for the practice. On a different note, what is the point of socializing? People rarely say anything new or different. Their experiences are not significantly different from that of others. I guess the lesson here is to learn how to draw out what you need from a seduction conversation so that the seduction can succeed often.

As far as the sexualizing stage, often I have girls come sit close to me. I have my arm around their shoulders, or on their leg while talking. Most girls will do this, come sit close to you.

I have another question. What is the goal of socializing? How will I know if I am doing it well? You will know you are doing it right if you get the goals you are looking for. For socializing and talking to people, my goal is usually to let them let me go so I can go do what I want to do by myself. Maybe I should change my goal. But what, then, is the goal? I don't know.

Another thing, I feel so "far behind" on this socializing and seduction stuff. I have X number of notches, and feel comfortable enough in conversations, which are generally positive, but I still don't know what the goal is or confident in being able to get it. I guess this is just part of the journey. Part of me just wants to know what the end point is so I can get there, and be done with it. But alas, this frustration is just because I haven't gotten results as of late, and am simply laying the groundwork for greater success.

Another note, I didn't feel particularly "horny" this week on all the dates I went on. In the last 11 days I've gone on 11 dates. it is good for the experience. 9 of them were at night, 2 during the day. Unfortunately, none closed. 3 kiss and boobs at home, but not past that. Horniess is important, because it causes you to make the extra mental effort to think of new ideas and make things happen. I wonder if or how I can amp this up. Maybe walk more for exercise?

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on 2 dates yesterday.

The first, we met at a coffee shop. Got coffee, walked to park, sat and talked, moved to another bench because it was too sunny in the first, pulled home, escalated to sex, had sex, talked, she left.

A few breakthroughs on this one that I want to lock in as gains for myself. First is having a projecting, dominant vibe. Which is achieved by making my mouth small, in a sort of cute and sexy look. Pursing the lips. And tucking the chin. This gave me feeling of being dominant, high-value, and taking the bull the horns. Probably good for business, too. This allowed me to lead during the interaction, with a sexy vibe, and move things forward.

The second thing was to think and feel with my dick, rather than my head. Lately, I've been thinking with my head way to much. I need to think with my other head, my dick, in order to guide my actions. Your dick has the answers. Listen to it.

As far as the girl, she immediately gave me strong eye contact. Like, unbroken. It was almost kind of unsettling. If I were more experienced, which of course I am today with today's experience, I would recognize that she was giving strong signals from the beginning that she was down. Later, when we were laying together after sex, I asked when she knew that she wanted to have sex with me. She said she knew she wanted to before the date. I'm not sure if that answers it. Does that just mean that I was attractive enough in my photos to want to meet up? Or that she legit would have been ready to have sex upon first meeting? Not sure. As a side note, what are some good stock questions to ask a girl after first time sex? I have heard Chase say that this is a good time to get truthful information from a girl. What should I ask? What do I want to know that would be good to get here?

While on the date, a few key parts for me were when we were sitting on the park bench. I had deep dived a bit, and she sort of got closer to me of her own accord. This is good. This is the part when I need to sexualize more. Our faces also got closer together, with her giving me strong, unbreaking eye contact. Also she had a low, sensual voice. I didn't consciously recognize indicators of her being turned on, but I want to look out for those in the future. Maybe this would be dilated pupils, glassy/puppy dog bowl look in the eyes, something else. Recognizing things like this, you could skip steps, and make something happen fast. This is what it means to be a good seducer. Recognizing signs and signals, and skipping steps as a result, and otherwise timing moves to line up with the signals so that it feels smooth.

At some point in here, I made a sexual joke, and she ate it up. This is good, moving it towards sexualization. I forget what the "joke" was. But I know it was around this time. It is setting the sexual frame, which she may or may not buy into. In this case, she did.

She provided a good reason to "bounce" to another location. My eyes were in the sun, which I said to her. She voluntarily held her hand up over her head, to block the sun and shade my eyes. This is great investment from her, which she volunteered to do, another good sign. She also said maybe we'd have to move if the sun would be an issue. I don't know if she said this on purpose to give a reason to move, or if these opportunities just present themselves if you enter the flow of the universe, but anyway, it provided a good reason to "move" again, getting more movement.

I said let's move to get out of the sun and she said sure, so we walked to another side of the park. We sat on a similar bench, which was out of the sun. This time, sitting down, we were quite close to each other. Somehow sexual topics presented themselves. There was one, the first one, which I can't remember. The second, somehow we got on the topic of spreadsheets. She said she loved using spreadsheets to organize. This wasn't a sexual topic, and I didn't have any strong way to guide it, so I just asked what she used them for. She said keeping track of sex partners, except that was actually in a word doc. I joked about that. How it was word instead of excel because you need to write the notes. Like so and so guy, huge dick. Ginormous. She said something like "I hope it is". I realize that she said this referring to me.

We sat, looking into each other's eyes. I did a triangle stare, where you look at one eye, the other eye, her mouth. Then again. This can lead to a kiss. But I broke off the tension, looking away, not wanting to kiss in public, and rather save it for at home. Is this the right move, to break it off yourself first, to save it for when you're at home? I think it is good. It is leading, like getting ready to do something, then saying "not yet". It builds anticipation. I also felt my pants growing, as I became a little aroused. I assume by the law of mirror neurons, that she did too. And because of the moment, it would make sense. She, of course, was still looking directly at me with strong eye contact this whole time. So it was time to pull.

This was a pretty strong indicator of readiness. So I waited a minute. Then I asked if she wanted to go watch a show for a bit. She asked what show. I described it. We talked about shows for a few minutes. She said sure at some point in there. We waited another moment. Then we got up to go.

Walked home. Talking while walking home for the pull is kind of a weird transition point. I don't know what to talk about. It's usually something relatively light. At this point, we talked about reading, and what books she liked. I think she brought up the conversation topic, so I just asked her about it. The topic was not very sexual or had much tension. But her voice this whole time was rather sensual. I'm not sure if that is her default, or if it was because she was attracted to me. Probably the former.

Getting back to mine, she sat on the couch. I got the normal things ready, like a glass of water for her, a show on the computer. I went to kiss her once. She immediately was enthusiastic about it. But I pulled away, doing the once, then second. We chatted a second. I went in for the second kiss, and she was immediately enthusiastic again. We escalated mutually pretty fast from there, her rubbing my crotch over the pants, and me doing the same to her. Then we took of shirts, and pants, and laid in the bed. And the rest is, as they say, available for $3.99 on my OF (link in bio).

So, lots of good elements here. From what I've been working on recently, here are some:
-- A second move: Moving a second time. First is you meet a the first date place. You move once to sit down. I call that the first move, to the first deep dive spot. A second move would be like if you were to then bounce her to a second bar. Or in this case, bounce her to a second location in the park. This is useful, because it just creates more movement, which very often a good thing.
-- Leading/vibe: I tucked the chin and pursed the lips, which is really more curling the corners of my mouth, which results in a sort of pursed lip cute and sexy look. This is was good, because it made me feel like a boss, ready to lead and take over the world.
-- Thinking with dick instead of brain: Literally just shift the energy you feel in your body, from your brain, to your dick. You can feel the difference.
-- Sexy/purring voice: I had a low, purring voice, which helped. I also enjoyed how since it was daytime and we were outside, I could hear her, and speak softly with a purring voice, and she could still hear me. This is often very hard in bars, lounges, etc.
-- Touch: I had my arm around her back, on her leg at various points. She voluntarily got pretty physically close, which is great. She was clearly comfortable with me, which I reciprocated.
-- Eye contact: She had strong, steady eye contact. As mentioned, it is a positive sign of interest.
-- Sexualization: I can't say I did this well, verbally. I had that sexual "joke", which I forget what I said, but she ate it up, which is positive. We had the series about spreadsheets and big dick, which was very positive. We had being physically close, which is positive. We had looking with unbreaking eye contact into each others' eyes, which is positive. We had the triangle look moment, which was positive. So, I still need to look for ways to set sexual frames, through sexual jokes, to turn it sexual.

Sex was good. She was orgasmed rather quickly, and I think multiple times. She was pretty orgasmic. She had 3 tattoos, and frankly if I had to guess, she seemed rather on the more experienced side. Later when talking, she said how she liked recreational drugs quite a bit, and went to festivals. Yup, I'm gonna say rather experienced, indeed. Was expected. But I could always be wrong.

It's funny how girls that are experienced are, frankly, often more 1. sexy 2. helpful 3. smooth in their responses to things. For example, this girl had a sensual, soft voice tonality. And frankly, it was sexy. I like it. As for helpful, this comes out usually in the sexual conversation section. As I have described, I'm having trouble turning things sexual. She served up a big juicy slowball, with the big dick comment. She probably knew what she was doing. She was probably helping me out. Other more experienced girls I've been with have done this. They know what they are doing. And sometimes they will even help you out. I need to learn, so I can do it for all the other girls, and help them out! Smooth -- she never responded in a kneejerk way to any of the questions. To be fair, I didn't ask them in a kneejerk way. This kind of comes with the sensual voice. It is slow, measured, controlled, and sensual.

One potential friction point is asking if she wanted to watch a show. She asked about what show, and we had this back and forth about it. This indicates to me, that I didn't do a good enough job seeding the idea of shows, and the desire to watch them, in a plausibly deniable enough way, before making the pull ask. In other words, I could have prevented that back and forth by seeding and setting it up better, before making the ask. That is something I want to work on. Seeding the pull. This is what it means to be smooth and calibrated. Getting to the end, and her having no objections, because you handled everything beforehand.

I'm not sure if this one went better because she was more experienced and therefore sexy and smooth, or because the changes I made made me more senual and therefore open to hearing the signs and signals the girl was giving. Probably both.

I also went on a second date.

As the first was leaving, I was scheduled to meet up with another girl. I texted her to push it back 30 mins, which thankfully she agreed to. We met up, went inside for a drink. Sat and talked. I tried to pull (after hearing something that I hypothesized was an indicator of being ready, but I guess my prediction was wrong), she said she didn't do that on the first date, I said that's not a problem. We continued talking, went to a second location and got another drink. Continued talking. I didn't try to pull again (because of a conscious choice), we left after a while, I said we should do it again, she agreed, parted ways.

This date was interesting. The girl was verrry in her head. Probably like I was, as recently as yesterday. In her head meaning, everything was logical. You might guess that she was very "type A" (she described herself this way). It's not actively offputting, it just is very dry and boring to converse with. I can see why the girls I was out with the last 11 days or so hadn't been responding well. I was being in my head, thinking with my brain, instead of thinking with my dick. This girl was basically doing the same thing. So the conversation was not great.

But, she was giving good eye contact. Always looking at me. Which is a good signal. The last 11 days or so, I've had many of the girls who stop looking at my at some point, presumably because they are bored and just want to get out of there. This girl didn't do that to me, despite talking for a long time. So that is positive.

Again, I used my newly-remembered advice of use a tucked chin leadership curled mouth cute and sexy look, and think with your dick. Both of which, against, seemed to help. I deep dived about different things she did, getting onto a real passion of hers that she did when younger, which was musical theater/singing. That was cool. I like learning interesting things about people.

Things of note:
-- Multiple locations/moves: We changed venues here, "bouncing" her to a second place for a second drink. This was good, as it creates compliance and movement. I haven't done much multi-venue bouncing at night, but this worked out well enough, I might make it part of the normal repertoire. Also, I got a soda, and she a mocktail, which was good, because I really don't want to drink more. This allowed us to continue hanging out, at a bar, without drinking alcohol. Win. Also, the soda probably didn't cost much, which is good too. Also a win.
-- My vibe: As mentioned, my leadership vibe was good, or at least I did what I wanted for that date. Continue to use it.
-- Sexualizing: I didn't sexualize much if at all, or get onto sexy topics. I tried to make a sexy joke, about Victoria's Secret, at some point (in line with the conversation), but she didn't really buy into it. I need a way to turn it sexual better.
-- Not hard closing: My MO my whole dating career thus far has been to assume that if we don't have sex on the first date, then it won't ever happen. This was probably good, because it forced me to make moves, and get experience. Now, however, I am experimenting with being okay doing a second date. In other words, try to pull once, but if she gives real resistance, then don't try again later, and instead play for a second date. This might work, it might not. We'll see. I'm just trying things. First date sex is still the overall goal, and everything else written above is geared towards that. At the same time, I don't like trying to hard-sell a girl if I can tell that she won't likely go for it. One pull attempt is fine. A second, that would be hard-sell. But, as I get better at sexualizing, and gaining buy-in to sexual topics, etc, this will be less of an issue.

It seems like when you meet girls on the apps, they always have something "off" about them. Either they are mids, or red-flag girls, or, as I've run into a few times, highly in their heads and not fun to talk to which is probably why they are single. I have run into a few of those. All of which is to say, the apps are not great for quality. However, for quantity of dates, it definitely gives you more at-bats. On the flip side, maybe that time is better spent on doing daytime approaches. We'll see.

Note to self: lock in the gains. Tuck chin, curled lips look, and think with your dick. Review these notes every day.

 

[bkw]

Hey man, congrats on the new notch! I can say this for certain about the girl you banged was that she definitely was DTF likely before you even met. As soon as you mentioned she told you about a spread sheet of guys she banged there literally is no game at this point but to pull her home and escalate to sex. No need for gambits or anything at that point. She definitely had a lot of experience giving you the eyes, bringing up sexy topics, etc. literally you could have met this girl and within 10 minutes pull her home without much game. She was just down.

Also she seemed to be doing kino on you with putting her hands over your eyes for the sun. I’d called that a form of kino escalation because she’s physically touching you. This is also a green sign when a girl touches you, especially escalating on you

I think what you’re doing is great keeping so much detail for yourself. You’re learning a lot and it’ll help you out in the future when you notice patterns! Nice work!

 

[bobbyb112]

@bkw Appreciate the insights! Yeah, I need to be learning from what this girl was doing. She is clearly the better seducer than me at the moment, lol. She also was wearing a bright red shirt (Chase says to wear red, because it makes both men and women seem more romantically desirable). Maybe she reads GC.

As a point of clarification, with the sun over eyes thing, she was lifting her hand above her own head, to block the sun from getting in my eyes, not putting it directly on my face. Definitely still good investment from her, though!

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date yesterday.

We met at the bar. It was from an app. We went and got drinks and sat outside. Talked. Went inside. Talked. Moved over on the seats. Talked. Went down to the bathroom, then left. She was pretty talkative. She talked a lot including about her job, which she enjoyed and was pretty passionate about. Also she talked about some of her adventures traveling. She talked most of the time. I just sat back and listened, although shared things about myself, too.

Honestly, I think my vibe was rather on point. It was slight smirk, with "amused" and "slightly bored" eyes. My voice was on the side of purring and soft. As far as touch, we touched a bit, usually me touching her more. She also touched me, after a while. She also leaned against me, towards the end, and things got quiet. I invited her back to watch a show, but she said no. I also went for the pull in the middle of the date, but she said no, as well. She had kind of an aggressive/masculine personality, and said "no big guy". I guess for girls that are on the more masculine side like this, you just have to be even more dominant, to overcome their masculine personality. In any case, I feel like allowing her to talk was a good thing.

There were times when the topics were "sexual", like talking about walking around naked in your apartment, tattoos. Those are good verbal sexual topics, but I would also like to have the vibe be more sexual. I guess I wonder, can you make it sexual, but then if she doesn't catch on, does it work? Or is that the point, that you have to make her feel it, even if she doesn't know what is happening?

I could have spiked attraction, potentially. I have to find ways to do that more. She said I was "cute and sweet". That's the kiss of death. Never seeing this girl again. Too bad. I need to work on spiking attraction emotionally. I also want to try "narcissist game". Basically, act like a narcissist. It seems like it would work. Girls love narcissists. That's how I think about it, anyway. That is what I did when I had that minor breakthrough with the girl about a month and a half ago.

I guess my takeaway overall is that I have to act more narcissistic and tease more. If not, girls just can't feel attraction. And no amount of connection is going to make her want to see you again. That is my thinking.

On the flip side, there are two girls this week who I am going on second dates with. For both, I felt like the first date was pretty boring with little to no sexualization. I'm curious how they will feel about it on the second date. Second dates are weird. It's like, I don't want to put any effort in, because they should be proving themselves to me at this point. As in, I barely care. I'll be there, but they have to show me something if they want to see me again.

I guess the point is, I need to tease and spike emotionally, because 1. it causes her to be more attracted 2. it acts like a screening mechanism, in the sense that if she reacts the right way to my teases, then she is more likely to say yes when I go for the pull. I have no problem asking a girl to come home with me, in virtually any situation. I don't fear rejection there. I just want a way to predict or cause her to want to say yes when I do ask. I wonder, too, if when she is more attracted, she will be open to the sexual frame more, too.

Here's what I think I need to do. I need to focus on pushing away. Push the girl away, by disagreeing with her. Challenging her. Teasing. I guess no too much. But more than I have been. Is that the right mindset to have? I guess another mindset is of seeing if she is good enough for you. I am the prize, as the say. Maybe having fun is the real vibe I need. Having fun. That might be something I need more of. Another might be warming up. I usually go from work straight to a date, without talking to anyone in between.

I think I'm going to develop a style of game for myself. I'm calling it, narcissist game. Basically, I convince myself I am the shit, my shit is hot, I am the man, and then I go into these dates. Tease the girl. Assume she is trying to seduce me and say so. Things of that nature. I have done tactics like these in the past, but never really paid attention to the mindset I was using at the time. But this mindset, that I am the shit, seems like it is the best way to have the girls believe it, too.

My guess is that this is how one can mistakenly go too far, into "jerk" territory. But, I guess you can just dial it back, if needed, to not go too far with it. The point is, I need a mindset to really get the juices flowing and get in the groove, in these dates. Something to really guide all my actions, rather than just "want to to try this piece of tech of touching her on the arm". That technical stuff is cool. But you know what is cooler? A mindset that allows the rest of the techniques and tactics to flow as a result of it. This is what it really means to internalize the mindset and principles of a seducer. When you understand the feeling in yourself, what I am calling this narcissist, self-belief, or whatever you want to call it, then the actions, techniques, and tactics can follow and flow from it naturally.

Let's examine this mindset. More ways it has been described is "I am the prize". It is all different ways of describing the same thing. The mindset that you have a good product (you), and that a girl would be lucky to have it. Thus, you have to "sell" it, by first believing in it. This guides everything you do. First, you have to remember that you have a hot product. Then, the actions will follow. Or at least, they follow at lot more naturally and effortlessly and with less conscious thought. You should still practice the technical elements, but remember the mindset and overall principles which they follow.

Thus, my pre-date routine should be to remember that I am the prize. Maybe take a minute and meditate on that, getting int he right headspace, and focusing on that. Then act on it. Seems useful, from a performance perspective. Note, this isn't a "state". And it needn't take longer than a split second. But you have to be ready to snap into your narcissistic, self-belief, I am the prize mentality at a moment's notice. Also, the more you practice it, the easier you will able to remember this mindset. Heck, as you do it more, it becomes more of a part of you. So you live in it all the time. This is how it works, as well, as you adopt and embody these new character traits.