Journal

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date yesterday.

We met at the bar. It was too busy so we went next door. Sat and talked. Body language wise, she sat turned towards me, which is good. But her arms were folded across her body the whole time, which wasn't good. We talked about a bunch of stuff, mostly which felt platonic. I teased at various points, although it didn't seem to "land". After about an hour I invited her back for wine, but she said she had to be up early. I said I had to go 10 minutes later and we paid and left.

One thing that I worry about on these sort of dates is, I might not be "on my game" to make it happen with her. That is, I'm not ready to hold frame, be into her, tease hard, ask for compliance and investment, create the bubble, etc. Why would I not be ready for it? First, it could be that don't believe that she is pullable, or that I won't be attracted, leading to me not giving enough, leading to her auto-rejecting. I wonder if the first step in pulling off a seduction is believing that it is possible, and that you want to. Sometimes, I go to dates after work, and I'm sort of tired and my head is full of work stuff. Then I don't pay enough attention to the seduction aspect, and instead have a platonic friendly conversation, and she isn't about it. On that note, if the conversation is too good, we don't end up having sex. That is another heuristic. The conversation should be subcontext laden, rather than "good and friendly". Make it sub-context-laden.

I guess these dates after work when I am tired and not particularly in the mood to pull are alright. They are good practice, if nothing else. They are socializing, which is generally good. Otherwise I would just sit at home and work more. At the same time, maybe I should take some time beforehand to get in a seductive, horny state of mind. So I can be mentally prepared to take the steps needed to seduce. My energy was a bit off, too, because I didn't sleep well last night. No excuse, but being well rested helps be on the ball, too. Maybe I could walk around the block a few times before the date, to get into the seduction state of mind, to transition from working, and be ready to seduce on the date. What is a good routine I can do before the date, to make sure I am in the right state of mind?

Another element, with this girl, she was from the apps. On the apps, I generally have 1 of 2 approaches for messaging. One is a one-shot text, saying hey you're cute let's get a drink sometime. This is short and to the point. It's not bad, but of the girls that respond to that, you tend to get some that seem really just "social" and willing to get a drink, but haven't bought into you that much, or the fact that you might want something "casual". My other sequence of texting involves saying she is sexy, and saying that I don't want anything serious, and would you like to get a drink. Also some more qualifying, about things she does for fun. I like this sequence better at the moment, because if the girl texts back and forth and hears multiple times that you aren't looking for something serious, then she is more likely down with the idea that you'll invite her back at the end of the date.

This is the element of "filtering", where you're simply screening more for girls that DTF, or close to DTF, to go out with. It is useful to filter in this way, to improve your date-to-lay rate. On these dates, I do them for a combination of 1. practicing socializing and 2. getting laid. I suppose if I screen even harder for DTF and near-DTF girls, then I can boost my lay rate. At the same time, I do want to practice socializing, in the sense that this is currently my only source of dates at the moment. So those are the two goals or objectives or why I go on these types of dates.

I guess one part of the trouble is, holding frame and acting like you want to have sex with a girl requires some effort. What happens is, she will ask a question, and I know I should hold frame in some sort of strong way, but I also don't care enough about sleeping with her to hold frame and keep the conversation tense. So I just go with friendly conversation, it turns friendly, and she is unattracted. Hmm. I guess recognizing it is a good first step. I guess the next step you could do is decide that you are going to hold frame and seduce in your various ways, and just do it. It's like focusing while playing soccer to play well. If you're tired, it's harder to focus, and you are more liable to taking plays off, or just not putting in the little extra effort needed to make a good play. In seduction, same thing.

Now, you can improve your game and fundamentals, such that you can do better even when you are tired. That is indeed a worth goal. How can I unlock all of my charisma, all the time. Maybe smile more. Or not be tired. Maybe take a nap in the afternoon, to be ready for weekday nighttime dates. Also, how can I socialize, while working a pretty busy schedule with work? Maybe at work, lol. Or walking around outside, between the day at work. Just approach girls then, to get the ball rolling. Keep the social muscles up. This is a weird question but, what is the end goal of socializing?

On the plus side, I think that I did feel better as far as holding frame overall, in certain ways. Might slight smirk on the right side of my mouth seems to be good, for talking slower, being in control, thinking of things in the moment. While talking with this girl tonight, I felt remarkably free in my ability to listen to her. Like open, listening, non-judgemental, in the moment. It felt interesting. The slight smirk on the right side of my mouth seems to be helpful for listening, being quick, and overall holding frame. At work, too, it seemed to help during some conversations to "just know the right thing to say." I will have to keep doing this, and paying attention to how and when it works. Maybe this is the beginning of being smooth. Being able to say the right thing at the right time, on the tip of the tongue, all the time. I will keep practicing it.

Taking a step back, I feel like I have made meaningful progress over the last, say, month or so. I have gone on a lot of dates and figured some new things out. I'm learning each time I go out, although frankly I'd like to learn faster, lol. But the journey continues, and it is indeed improving. If I can talk to more people, through work, approaching on the street, on dates I set up, in other situations, I can really master this stuff. Or at least get better and better at it. And to get better as fast as possible.

For this date, the girl seemed to be closed-off. Maybe this is auto-rejection. Chase talks about this a good bit. Balancing attainability with value. What is value, though? No idea. Just tell me some tactic to do, I'll figure the theory later, lol. I know, given all that I've been doing recently, that I can get better and better at this socializing and dating stuff. For example, I've done so many dates, talked about so many of the same things with girls, that it is starting to get second-nature. I don't know if that's good or not. It certainly makes for more predictable conversation. Sometimes I feel like I am years behind most people socially. Yes, there are common topics that people like talking about. That's not a surprise. I guess my point is, if I can make everything about socializing, including the process of turning attractive women into lovers, then that will make for a pretty fun life. How can I accelerate this process, by talking to more people? Talk, talk, talk. Do more of it. That is the goal.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date yesterday.

This was from the apps. She was traveling in the US, and staying at her brother's house, and seeing the city. We met up for a drink. Did the first venue. Went to a second. Walked around a bit. I tried to pull a number of times, but she said no. I left eventually.

The other day Chase had a X post about how girls would be polite if they didn't like you, playful/flirtatious and compliant if they did, and cold/closed off they did but felt they couldn't get what they wanted so into auto rejection. This girl was at times the second, which is good.

I did something consciously different, which I felt helped. I had focused eye contact, strong eye contact. In the past, I have gotten sort of weak eye contact, and not laser beam focused. Clearly the latter is more powerful and attractive. I did this this time, and I felt that it built a stronger vibe and connection, all else being equal. I will do this going forward. I call it "eagle eyes". It is just good, strong eye contact.

I sometimes don't know how to lead the interaction forward. That is, after a while, I run out of things to say or do, then we're just sitting there. Then she asks a question, I'm like, naw, and she's like, why aren't you answering my questions. I'm like, I'm out of energy, it's boring, I'm bored, you're boring me, can I leave. I wonder if there is a remedy to this. Self-amusement? Not looking at her? I can't just be focused on her the whole time. Maybe that is good, though. If I take the focus off her for a bit, then it let's the pressure off for both of us to come up with things to say. Not that I like "dead air". But sometimes I'm out of schtick. I'm just there, wanting to look at the wall. Let me be in peace.

All the normal stuff is what I need to work on. Attraction tech. This time, I teased a bit at the beginning, ribbing her about stuff she said. That seemed good, frankly. She was rather compliant and flirtatious and playful following that for a while. We deep dived and built a connection, asking about things she liked and her telling about it. That was frankly good. It went pretty well after that. So that was good attraction tech. Nice.

After attraction tech it was connection tech. Connection stuff is deep diving. You need it to have the undertone that she is attracted to you, which is why you do attraction tech before connection. Anyway, we did this a bit. That was good.

Next, I needed to transition into sexual topic tech. This is still where I need work. Frankly, I need to be more explicit about it. Talking about sex, that is. Bringing it up. Sexual vibe is needed, too. But I guess, if I have a sexual vibe, and bring it up, and talk about something sex related, but she doesn't bite on it or seem to be affected by it, does that count? Did it land? I need to work on this, identifying when it works, why it works, how to make it work, etc. So the sexualization section is one I need some tech for.

After sexualization is the section when she is quiet, making her decision. This moment sort of came up, although I can't be sure. We were sitting in the second venue, nearing the end of our drinks, and she was staring in the distance. Unfortunately, I started talking with banter again from something we had talked about before. She was like "oh, I was staring in the distance thinking about something, but I don't remember what". If there was a place when she was making her decision, this was probably it. I interrupted her decision-making, which isn't good. I shall look out for that, and avoid it in the future.

I want to now look at the date using this article as my guide:
https://www.girlschase.com/article/trajectory-successful-date. And this is my other favorite: https://www.girlschase.com/content/secrets-getting-girls-time-your-moves.

This is probably my single favorite article from Chase on the whole website.

His model of a date, includes greetings/formalities, small talk to initiate conversation, meaningful connection to further bonding, increasing closeness/touch on high points, the arrival of sexual topics, humor, and vibe, an increase in sexual factors, closeness, and touch, alongside a decrease in meaningful verbal communication, movement to somewhere private, where the escalation to intimacy begins.

I like this overall. In the past, my problem has been, lets say you get to the meaningful connection to further bonding, then the next step is increasing closeness/touch on high points, then the arrival of sexual topics, humor, and vibe. My challenge has been transitioning from meaningful connection to more touch and sexual vibe. In the last week or so, I have diagnosed it as needing more attraction stuff, like teasing and flirting in the beginning, before getting into connection. I'm curious why this date model doesn't have attraction in there somewhere. Is that because you would have flirted/teased when you got the number, before the date? If that is the case, then maybe I don't need to tease/flirt like I had been doing. It seemed to work today, the flirt and teasing. Still, though, I then had trouble turning it more sexual. It's like, how you get close with her, without outright leaning into her space? I guess I could do that. It just seems like you're overinvesting. I mean, if that is not too much investment, and it's a case of give a little to get a lot, then maybe it is worth it.

I tend to try to sit up straight, and go into her sometimes, but also pull her into me, and touch her more, to get the sexual vibe going. At least that's what I've been trying lately. What is the feeling of having the sexual vibe, or sexual intent, or whatever you want to call it? I think I do want to lean into her more, with my head/face getting close, because this rather clearly signals intent, and creates sexual tension. This creates the feeling, then perhaps the verbals will come more natural. If you create the vibe, the verbals will take care of themselves. Creating the vibe comes from the body language, which, I am hypothesizing, comes from leaning your head close into hers. That is sort of my hypothesis. It is a simple body language thing. You lean your head into something that you like. If she moves away, then you can back off, and re-group.

Another point of this is, I sort of need to show more interest. That is, sexy guys show interest, not in a needy way, but in a this is what I want and I'm not ashamed of it way. I need to perhaps do this more, because otherwise no sexual vibe gets created, and later when I go to pull, it feels out of left field. I think just getting close overall is a decent way, at this stage, so turn up the sexual vibe.

I remember Alek did an article discussing this. He said that an easy way to transition closer to the girl is to go to a second venue, and when you sit down there, sit close. I can see the usefulness of this, as you use the transition to make that move. What if you are just at the first place, and you just move closer to her on the bench or whatever? Even better would be to have her come to you, which you can do a little bit. I often say "come close so I can hear you". Sometimes they come close enough, sometimes not. What i can do is come in even closer, to turn up the sexual tension and vibe. I like the idea of doing your whole process at one venue, as opposed to two. Two is just too much. If she doesn't want it after one, then how is two going to change things? That's what I say.

Maybe I could do hybrid. Tease at the beginning, then get into connection and the rest. That way you establish a little bit of attraction, in case it wasn't there already. Then do the rest. Touch on high points. Move closer. Turn up the sexual tension by getting close after building a connection. Getting less verbal. She decides. You pull.

I need to re-read both those articles again like 20 times. Very good.

I don't love on dates, when I go for the pull, they say no. I can stay there and keep going, but I really usually don't have too much to say or go on. I'm fine to stare at the wall, but if she wants to keep talking, I'm sort of out of things to talk about. What do you do? Is there anything to do after a girl says no to the pull? As far as preparing for the pull, I think getting physically close is important. Again, my successful dates in the past have involved very close physical touch, prior to pulling. Well, some more than others. But the more "iffy" ones, as in she wasn't DTF beforehand, this is what happened. Thus, do it again. What this will do, basically, is avoid the situation, when the vibe is friendly, but you know that based on time you should pull. You go for it, and she says no. Boo. So, get close, turn it sexual, and the pull will make sense. At the very least, I don't want her to not be expecting a pull attempt. I want her to feel the sexual vibe. I want her to feel the sexy. She might not be down for the sexy, but at least she will feel it. I need to turn up the sexual vibe before going for the pull. If I get physically close and she moves away, then so be it. But I won't get to a pull timing-wise without having shown sexual intent through my verbals and/or physical proximity and touch. It is important.

As far as the other thing I'm working on, attraction in the beginning via teasing or flirting, Chase says you don't want to overdo this. Guys will, he says, overgame by doing too much teasing and flirting later on, after you got attraction. I guess, maybe I wasn't doing enough of this before, and so I should add a little bit, but not too much? maybe that is where I'm at. I have to add some in, but make sure not to overdo it, because everything can be overdone. Maybe, too, I could overdo it for a little bit, to get a feel for what is too much, and then dial it back. For example, the girl last year who I teased a ton, got together with, but she didn't see me as a serious possibility for something more with because she felt I was a "jerk". On the date in this post, I had like 4 or 5 teases in a row at the beginning, because I was working on it and wanted to get a feel for it. Maybe that was one or two too many, or maybe even one or two too few. Not sure. Attraction tech is sort of something I have been add in and haven't done before, so it is important to play around with.

Sexualization tech is what I'm also going to work on. Namely, getting physically close to her, and even leaning in. Heck, make it uncomfortable. If she leaves, that's fine. If she moves away, I guess wash and repeat, although your chances of success later may or may not be high. Anyway, do it, because it needs to be done.

So attraction tech via teasing in the beginning, let's say 2 or 3 teases, just enough so she feels it. Then after the connection stuff, increasing touch and getting physically closer including leaning in with my head. Those are the two things I'm working on. While I'm at it, I could probably work on small talk in the beginning. I'm usually coming from the workday, so my chit-chat game is kind of rusty. I might try to improve that, for whatever it is worth. Might as well. It needn't be hard, but I haven't examined it a lot.

I should really read those two articles 10 times a day. Just try to execute those as much as possible. Those are really the ones that speak most to my soul when it comes to seduction, in a practical way.

I'm thinking back to a date I had in January. On that one, I indeed got quite close to the girl. Like moving myself to get in close, put my arm around her, got physically close with my body. She ended up coming home, and we got naked together on the bed, but no sex. But, this highlighted a time when I just went for it as far as "getting close", and it led to good things happening. It upped the vibe, which was undeniably sexual. We didn't end up having sex, which doesn't make for a good ending of the story. But getting this girl back, was good, as it shows something that worked.

I guess my hesitancy about "getting close" as of late has been that I don't want to seem tryhard by moving myself close to her. Either I want to stay away, and not risk rejection, or have her come close, which she doesn't want to do because of risking rejection. One of you has to make that move, and as the guy, you might as well do it. The guy leads. Simple as.

But this also explains why many of my dates have felt platonic somewhat recently. I have been missing the escalation window to move from connection to closeness, and therefore sexual topics, and then it turns into a platonic date. Thus, this "getting close" stage and escalation window is one that I have to hit.

Thinking back, there was another seduction in October where I leaned in close, upping the sexual tension, and we ended up together. So that is another example of leaning in to create sexual tension work. Interesting. Seems like the right move. I have sort of been relying on just verbal stuff, or trying to make just verbal work. It can work, but yo probably need more clearly sexual stuff, like Alek's sex talk, to make this work. I need to add the non-verbal piece in more, the leaning in and getting close, to create that sexual tension. That is what I need right now.

 

[bobbyb112]

On went on a date last night.

We met up for drinks. Had a drink. I teased. I got close. She was playing with her hair. I invited her back. She said no. I said okay. We sat silently. I left.

Her body language was such that she didn't really turn to me at all. Like, she was facing one way, and wouldn't even look at my. What the heck. Is she in auto rejection? She was pulling at her hair. I can't tell if this is a sign of interest, or just something she does. Anyway, I went to pull, she said no. I'm out of ideas. She is not interesting. Therefore, I leave.

I did tease and stuff. That was good. It landed, in that she laughed. I was teasing. She wasn't very interesting though. She didn't really do anything fun. She might enjoy her job. Another question, when you touch her, and she doesn't touch back, is that bad? It doesn't feel very inviting, frankly. It's like, if she is just going to be a stone, and no look at me, and not say anything, I guess this is over? I can think of no other way to go with it.

Also, in our texting, I had said that I didn't want anything serious, etc. Does this mean she was expecting something different? I don't know. I'm not sure if bailing on this date as a good idea or not. It had been around 40 mins. We sent through our stuff. I maybe could have deep dived better. Switched tonalities between playful, genuine, and sexual better. Probably took deep breaths, and been more present. That is something I want to do. Meditate for 5 minutes before going out on a date. It feels like I am more present when I do.

On the flip side, this girl might have just been a more quiet girl. She did data science, so worked with numbers and all that. Those girls, and guys, often aren't the "talkative" type. So maybe that was part of it. That could've been part of it. On the one hand, I don't have time to hang around on a date that is going nowhere. On the other hand, staying in the saddle, and burning it to the ground, as it were, could be useful. I'm not sure.

I leaned in indeed. I got close. Problem is, she didn't lean back. More just looked away. I'm glad I did it, because I showed my intent. It increased pressure. Again, I'm glad I did it, because she could probably feel it. It wasn't so good, that she wasn't having it. But hey, I did what I came to do. I leaned in close, and increased pressure.

I'm not sure if I need to increase attraction, or increase connection, or add a sexier vibe, or what. It felt too transactional. Too many dates feel too transactional. Just in the sense, I would love to get genuine attraction, connection, sexual tension, all that. It is fun. I enjoy it. I don't believe you need a lot of time to do it. But you do need to do things in certain ways that actually build those things.

Some more things. I need to talk slower. And have something besides a playful tone. The playful tone is good. But you have to switch between them, playful, genuine, and sexual. I also want to bring girls to a different venue. One that is comfortable to sit in, and also not playing music so loud you can hear what you're saying. If you can't hear what you're saying, how can you properly seduce a girl? That is my new hypothesis. I have a different venue I want to bring girls.

I am indeed glad that I didn't invest more after going for the pull. I got nothing else. Not here to hang out. Here to pull. Gotta go do other things. i need to sit up straight more. Maybe even eat more food. I need a strong, grounded, sexual energy.

Maybe I need to show more genuine approval or appreciation for things they do that they tell me. Like, that's cool, that's really cool that you do that. That seems like it would increase attainability, which maybe I need. I teased quite a bit. She answered my questions and stuff, but never really opened up. Maybe she was just being "subtle" with her showing of being attracted.

How do I get more compliance and investment? I watch this girl investing and complying hard. What can I have her do, besides tell me about herself, that gives compliance and investment. I often say "show me your ring/ earring/ necklace", but they don't really do anything. I look at it. Did that count? Did it serve its purpose? Did it land. Maybe I can have her do other things for me. I need to practice being bossy. Put my jacket over there. Hand me that napkin. Hand me a straw. Come over here. What else can I have her do?

On the plus side for the date, I was trying out thinking less, and just doing things. This included teasing. Having fun, basically. Honestly, I feel like having fun works better on younger women. I was seeing a 30 yo for a little bit. I was never very "fun". Then one day, I tried being fun, for myself. The vibe shifted, and we started growing apart. Something about it rubbed her the wrong way, and we grew apart. Weird. My thinking is, if I can't have fun, how can I be with this person? If they can't or won't engage, then why would I want to be with them? Like, lighten up, y'all. It's not like I said something rude while drunk or anything.

On the topic of drinking, maybe I should order non-alcoholic drinks on these dates. I've been drinking more than I ever have. Which means, one drink, a few nights a week. I don't love what it does for your health. Not that I don't feel good. I just like not drinking better. So maybe I will get non-alcoholic beverages from now on. Or just diet soda.

Some girls are not about it. They'll sit silently. They won't leave. But they won't comply with you. Classic. Wanna just sit in silence? Apparently. Plot twist, I love silence. But not complying, I'm not about that. I need to get bossier. I will get bossier. This fun vibe, this not thinking, leading, spur of the moment vibe, this is the way. I might have to find younger girls to use this with, though. Why is this the way? Because I feel like I'm having more fun when I do it. Fun is the guiding light, in life. At least when it comes to getting girls, anyway. Heck, work and business and making money can be fun. If you're having fun, maybe not in the moment when you are grinding, but in the overall enjoyment of it, then you are doing the right thing. When it feels like the manner in which you are going about doing dating/ career/ business/ work/ etc, isn't fun, then you need to change your approach in that respective activity. That's what I say.

Maybe I should do less, on these dates. Give them a chance to ease into it, settle into it, and get comfortable. Give them a chance to ask questions. I could tease. As of this date, I love to tease, apparently. This carefree vibe, this spur of the moment vibe, this makes me want to tease. But being too boisterous, it seems, might be too much. Especially for engineering/data type girls. Usually less boisterous. But I also just need to talk slower. Slower talking, and moving, is usually better. But what about Hector, and his fast approach? I don't know. As readers can tell, I'm just figuring it out.

I want to talk slow/deliberately, and also lead. How to do? That is for the next date to figure out.

I think moving slowly, including facial expressions, is good. That comes with strong, alluring eye contact. Alluring. That is the word I want to embody. Be alluring, but also purposeful. This allows you to both hook people in with how you talk and slow movements and facial expressions, and also lead with your tucked jaw gritted teeth certitude. That is what I am going for next time. Alluring and leading. That's my new mantra. Alluring and leading.

 

[bobbyb112]

I didn't go on a date, but I did meet up with the girl from last week a second time.

I need to start giving these girls codenames, but she was the girl from about a week ago that seemed really experienced, and we had sex on the first date. This time, she came over, we had sex, and then talked for a while. Unfortunately, oftentimes, after having sex once, I can't get it up again for the night. So we escalated to have sex a second time, but I couldn't get it up. Bummer. I wonder what causes that, if anything.

We escalated to sex the second time, and I felt that she was pretty wet. She might've felt let down after getting all ready to go like that, then not being able to have pleasure. I hope she didn't feel miffed by that. It's hard being a girl! It seems like multiple rounds of sex is good, because it helps attainability, and it just gives you both more pleasure, and hopefully her more orgasms, which is good. Like I said, I usually can't go multiple rounds in a night. I can last a long time in the first round, though.

I did have a revelation of sorts, though.

This was perhaps one of the first times when I have actually enjoyed the company of a woman. This might sound ridiculous. But seriously, every other woman I've been on a date with or been with, has been in some way unenjoyable. Usually the issue has been that I can't be in the moment in conversation, just enjoying the moment. Rather, I am in my head, thinking of various seduction related things I need to be doing and working on. However, walking around today, for some reason, I thought about just being in the moment. This is related to my last post from this morning, where I noticed in the date that if I didn't think and just had fun, then I had fun. Well, tonight seeing this girl for a second time, I also didn't think. And I had more fun. More fun in the sense that I enjoyed the conversation. And of course the sex was good and enjoyable, too.

Now, I'm not sure if I did any good "game" with her tonight. Again, it was a second meet up after having sex the first time, so there was little to do other than do the deed. But the talking part was good, in that I was in the moment and enjoying it. Which I accomplished by not thinking.

As I was walking around today, another way to accomplish the Zen-koan-like goal of concentrating on not thinking, I came up with the idea of imagining a single point right in front of my face, or a little hairy swirling ball just bigger than a point, fright in front of my face. By concentrating on this imaginary ball or point, I felt that I could be in the moment, with whatever I was doing. Rather than being bored or distracted. For some reason, this made sense to me today.

It probably has to do something with things that Ekhart Tolle talks about, although I have never read his books. I imagine it is something about being in the moment, and living in the moment to make life enjoyable and give you happiness overall. This has been on my mind, because for the first time in my life, relatively recently, I felt like I might not be happy. This realization came about from realizing I am quiet behind on a plan to have kids someday. That is the real goal that I am going for, and the point of all this dating stuff. Realizing I am behind on that goal is what made me question my happiness, which I never have in my life until now.

Anyway, living in the moment is definitely good. Good not just for "happiness", but also for seduction and doing anything. Because you need to be concentrating on whatever is right in front of you, to perform well, execute on the task at hand, leading to progress.

I was also thinking about the idea of loneliness, or at least the point of socializing, and how it can lead to happiness in my life. Reason being, the last 2-3 weeks or so, I have been working pretty diligently on a few work projects. It's busy, and I've been working say 12+ hour days, mostly by myself. This leads to a certain feeling of loneliness, when you don't talk to people. So what is the antidote? Or, what is the minimum, or optimal, or ideal amount of talking to other people on a daily basis to achieve life happiness? I find that when I do talk to other people during the day, even if it is not too long, it helps my feeling of wellbeing and happiness. It is good. It needn't be socializing, necessarily, but can be work stuff. It can also be something fun like improv, which gets you talking. What isn't good is when you talk to literally zero people all day. You'd think that while working, you would end up talking to people. But that isn't always the case.

But, as a social being, I should also have ways to socialize that are unrelated to work or formal activities. In other words, just going to a bar or lounge or something, and striking up a conversation. Or starting a conversation with somebody in the street. It seems like, and stands to reason, that this would be a good thing. We are social animals. We generally like talking with other people. I should have ways to do it outside of work and formal activities for doing this.

Then there is socializing to get your needs met outside of dating. That is, don't let the girl you're seeing, or the date you're going on, be the only or main source of your socialization. Because if you try to get your social needs met on the date, it can take away from your ability to pull her and turn her into a lover. I think I have been making this mistake a few times over the last 3 weeks or so. I have gone on dates, which I have written about here, where it is very platonic. Maybe subconsciously in my mind, I was thinking, I want to just socialize after a day of hard work where I didn't talk to anyone. That is no bueno, because it makes it harder to pull. Are you looking for a new lover, or a friend? A new lover. Not a friend. Not here.

Another point of this is, sometimes I do activities that are fun activities, but may or may not have much socializing involved. An example is BJJ, which I did for a while. After leaving the classes, I felt the joyous feeling of having learned and practiced something new, namely BJJ. But we didn't socialize much during class, which is to be expected. So the point is, maybe the joyous tingling of learning something new is different from socializing. Also enjoyable, but separated and different from socializing itself. Although socializing can be a skill which you practice, and learn more. So you get the double benefit there, of learning the skill, and just being a social animal.

For example, would going to BJJ classes after work days be beneficial? Maybe, sure. Another question is, how do I fill my socialization needs outside of my dedicated seduction time, if at all? Maybe I shouldn't worry about that. Maybe I should just go approach and try to close. Maybe talk to everyone when out, striking conversations with everyone, not just girls you're approaching, in order to get in the social flow. That seems like a good idea.

In any case, I probably should leave my house more. Working these 12+ hour days, there are days when I don't leave my house at all. Good for money, not good for living a social, women-filled life. Hmm. Maybe I will have to cut back on these work projects, in order to prioritize my (heretofore minimal) social activities. And on that note, get some social activities. What are some social activities? Do classes like BJJ count?

I have a few updates on girls from the last few weeks, with notes:
-- Girl who I went on a second date with, and had boring conversation with: I texted to set up a third date, but she said that she felt like we weren't very compatible as far as conversation. So I did not respond, and don't plan on it. Woah, so I'm glad she was noticing the same thing I was. Indeed, I think she was the problem here. Here conversation style was totally bizarre, and didn't feel like she was listening, hearing, or saying something interesting. I don't like taking myself off the hook by saying she was the one bad at conversation while I wasn't, but at the same time, she just needs to find someone who really likes her conversation style, rather than me.
-- Girl who I went on one date with and then wanted to go on a second: We set up time to go on a second date. She had texted a day and a half after the first one, which I took as a signal that she wanted to go out again. I hadn't planned on trying to set up a second, because she just didn't seem that interested. But since she reached out, I figured why not. Also, I invited her to my place to make food, as opposed to going out for food. The reason being, I need to see if she is interested enough to have sex, not just "spend time eating food together". I'm not trying to get my socialization needs met, here. I'm trying to get my sexualization needs met. However, she canceled the date the day before. Probably because she made plans with other people, etc. Which is fine. It's just funny because, why does she want to go out with me that much, then, if she has all these great other plans? Wheeling and dealing, as they say. I again didn't text. She texted saying can we do next week. I said sure. We haven't set that up yet, but it will be this coming week. I'm sure she is just wheeling and dealing. But I will invite her directly to my place to make some food, and if she doesn't want to do that, then I have no interest. There was another girl who is younger, and she has texted out of the blue a few times to meet up for a first date. But then she goes dark, or just doesn't respond to texts. Then pops up again. Again, she's probably just wheeling and dealing. She's getting invites from various dating opportunities, or other social opportunities that she wants to take up. I'm doing the same thing, frankly. I guess it is encouraging or flattering that she keeps popping up to think of me.
-- Girl who I've slept with twice: I texted her to try to set up a third time to see her. She was responsive, but then her work schedule made it not possible. I asked when she was free, other than that original time. She hasn't responded yet. Maybe she will, maybe she won't.

Another thing I was thinking about today while walking around, was that I need to talk slower. I've been talking too fast lately. I need to just slow it down. And listen. Talk like you would with a friend or family member. Do you talk fast and higher or uptone? No. You talk slow, and not thinking as much. This dovetails with my not thinking philosophy, now. By not thinking, you don't say too much, and you talk slower and deeper. John Wayne, or the actor who played John Wayne, gave the advice to Michael Caine about acting: "talk low and slow". And that's what Wayne did. It works. Low and slow is what I need. And not thinking.

By not thinking, you can focus on the other person. If you are thinking, it usually is you planning what you're going to do or say next. But by not thinking, you can focus on them, and give them what they need. Genious.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date tonight.

We met in front of one bar. We walked to another. Sat. Got drinks. Talked. Vibed. Got closer. Talked about sexual things. Got closer. Went for pull. She deferred. Talked more. She asked if I lived alone. I pulled. Paid. Left. Back at mine. Sex. Done.

A few things to take note of on this lay. First, I decided to use a different venue than I had been. I wanted this other bar to work, but it just doesn't. Problems were that it is usually very full, and the music is very loud and more on the side of pop music. On the plus side, it is very close to my place. I decided to use another place as my first date spot. It is more of a "lounge" feel, with a little chiller music, which isn't quite as loud. Dark, with a more sophisticated feel, rather than neighborhood bar. So we walked there. I may or may not make this my normal routine, but I invited her to meet in front of the first bar, and then said hey lets go to this other place, so we walked the 5 minutes there. I do like this a little bit, because it gives movement to the interaction. You can chit chat on the way there, too, and you know that it isn't too loud, because it's on the street. So I am definitely using that venue as my first date spot from now on. I might use the "meet in front of one place and walk to the actual place" tactic, to get movement.

I was worried the lounge venue would also be very busy, like the other two bars I usually use are, but it only had a handful of people, and we got a seat easily. This venue works a lot better, because there is music, but it is quieter, and more chill. Not quite house music, but indeed more chill. Plus, the seats are more casual, rather than wooded barstools or seats. I like it better overall.

With the music quieter, we could actually talk. This is frankly the problem I have had in my other 2 venues, where it is so loud, that you have to be sort of loud and friendly to be heard over the music. It's hard to be lowkey and sexy when you have to yell over music. And you can try to bring her closer, but in those venues, the seating made it difficult, and it just doesn't feel as intimate. So, lounge for the win.

I also changed my approach to the date overall. I decided to basically tone down everything overall, and just go in with chill, cool guy. Talk and vibe and stuff, and then invite her back (seeing how it went first). Lately I've been trying to "tease a lot", but with this, just chill, cool guy was what I was going for. This means you are neither too supplicating (avoiding nice guy), nor too challenging (avoiding jerk). Instead, just chill, cool guy. As we can see by the results, this seemed to work out.

Chase had an X post recently (or maybe it was an article?) about how for girls in their late 20's or early 30's, say maybe 27-30, to get them, you have to tone down the teasing and stimulation that is required for younger girls. Instead, he says, you almost tone your game down so much that you are just a cool, chill guy, who moves things forward, and you end up in bed together. This is what I thought it said, anyway. Or maybe I am just re-writing it, to align with what I felt I did on the date, lol. Anyway, I was thinking back this week to other dates I had had with girls who were say 28-30. You'd think these girls would be "easier", since they are older, compared to 18-25 yo. Shouldn't it be a shoo-in? But lately, I've been having trouble with them. Indeed, all those dates I went on a few weeks go, ended up with very little to show for it. What gives?

Well, I thought back to when I had success with this demographic before. Then, I basically went on the date, talked, got to know them, and invited them back. Not too much "game", nor too much "teasing", although I was by no means a nice guy pushover. In my mind, this was the chill, cool guy approach, and you just get to know them and move things forward and invite them back and they come. So, that is why I decided to try this approach this time. Also, I just decided to be more chill overall. On all those unsuccessful dates, I think I was trying to hard. Trying to be witty or funny, trying to show genuine interest, trying to tease and be playful and make jokes, trying to touch and get close. Too much trying. And part of the problem with trying is, you overthink. You're more likely to be in your head. So, that is why this time, I decided to purposefully be more chill. Just be chill. Go from there.

It seemed to work, because we talked, without the conversation being manic, or too loud, or too logical. It was just... chill. Then, the date progressed, there was a natural spot where she used my line that isn't a line to move closer to me, "it's too loud I can't hear you" me: "then come sit over here". She came from the seat she was sitting at, to take a seat next to me. Now we're close. This was after we had deep dived a bit. And so we talked about deep dive stuff a bit, but then I felt, soon after she came to sit close, that the next thing to do was to talk about sexual topics. And moreover, to cut space, and get closer to her. So I did, by leaning my head in, which upped the sexual vibe. Then putting my arm around her back, which she let me do. The sexual topics we then talked about, I forget what they were, but I will try to remember tomorrow, because knowing specific things I said here is good to know so I can re-create it in the future. I know I chased framed, essentially teasing her that she was trying to give me the wrong idea, or something. It was more explicit, which I will remember soon.

The conversation died down, and I went for the pull. I read it as the conversation dying down, downshifting, as Chase says, and I decided to see if that meant she was ready to pull. She wasn't, and so I just rinsed and repeated, by going back to some deep dive stuff, including travel talk, which is good because travel is a generally sexy mysterious topic. Close to finishing our drinks, she asked if I lived alone. I said yes. Soon after, like 20 seconds, I went for the pull again. She didn't really say yes, but more of a mhmm. I think the mhmm was more because I said lets have a glass of wine, and she was like "is that it", and I'm like "yeah, that's it". I don't want to hide the banana here, but I also don't want to be too overt. I don't see how being too overt helps here. Maybe I should just saying a knowing "amongst other things". We were pretty well on the same page, but I guess some girls want to be even more explicit? I don't know. Maybe I just need to improve my sexy vibe even more, to make it super clear "what I mean", without saying it. "Wanna go back and fuck?". Maybe that's what I should start saying.

In the beginning of the date, when we were walking from the meeting spot to the lounge, she asked what I did for work. I got triggered in my mind, because I was concerned that she's one of those girls who just want to know what you do and how much you make. Luckily, I kept that reaction in check, and just gave a minimal answer. She said "that was a very vague answer". I said "I can tell you more about it when we get to the bar". Looking back, I think she was just making conversation. So I'm glad I didn't auto-eject and leave the date right then and there. I seriously thought about it. I didn't want to be in for a night of grilling. Thankfully that isn't how it went.

I did tease a little bit on the way to the venue. Just playful stuff. Lightening up the mood. Perhaps the best way to gauge all of this is, just be in the moment, be chill, cool. Feel the vibes. And determine how much teasing she needs or not. Joking upon first meeting is good, because you are essentially strangers meeting for the first time, and you want to show that you are playful. This what it means to have calibration, to be in tune with a situation, and know what it needs at that moment. I didn't calculate in my head "here is where I need to be playful". I more just was chill, cool, and did what I wanted to do in the situation. This is, dare I say, what "natural" game looks like. Natural in the sense that you are listening to your gut, and trusting it, and acting on it. And being calm and feeling with your body, instead of thinking with your head. I can go on about this topic for quite a while, and maybe I will.

For example, the gut knows the answers. You feel it in your gut, and your body, too. You feel what to do in your body. They key is to listen to it, and act on it. You want the answers to come from your body, rather than your head. George Soros, the uber wealthy investor, says that he made decisions on moves to make in the market based on a random twinge in his back. Little pains in his body, would cause him to decide what to do with a trade. Why? Because the body knows things your conscious mind doesn't. Maybe you could say the body is more in tune with the subconscious mind, which is of course has much more knowledge than the conscious mind. Heck, the body IS the subconscious mind, because it is all the little processes that go on without our conscious thought. It makes sense that something going wrong would be felt in the body. This is how in-tune with your body and gut you want to be. If you let it guide your decisions, usually things go a lot better.

And this is part of the advice of be chill and cool is good. Because that means you are calm enough to listen to your body, which I wasn't before. Second, not over-gaming is important. Before I was probably over-gaming, and coming across as a tryhard. Chill and cool is the way to go. Another thing that probably helped was, I went into the office during the day. Usually I work at home, so I am not around people all day. Going into the office, you just get more socialization, as it were. Not a ton, I didn't talk to people a ton. But overall, I feel it does help. Maybe I will go into the office more often, especially if I have a date later that night, just in case it helps.

With this date, you might say that it was a lay down and you didn't do anything revolutionary. And that's true. I don't want to do anything revolutionary. I just want to convert a girl that goes out on a date with me to sex. They say that if she is on the date, then you passed her looks threshold (this is from OLD, so looks are more important there, compared to real-life approaching). If you can't convert her from the date, then your game what was lacking. My point with this one is, I am glad my game seems to have gotten the job done. Even if my game just consisted of being chill, deep diving, some teasing, some sexualization, proposing going home, etc. Is that what game is supposed to look like? Just being chill, cool, and moving things forward? Time will tell.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date tonight.

We met at the first bar. Walked to the lounge place that I'm liking. We sat there. The seat there is kind of awkward, but still better than most places. We sat and talked. Deep dived. Talked for a while. Had her come sit next to me, and touched and put my arm behind her, although the vibe was not very personal. Went for the pull, but she said maybe. We walked out, and she still said maybe. I left.

I think the problem with this one was, I wasn't playful enough and teasing right in the beginning. More joking about things that weren't personal, rather than about her. You want it to be about her. Rather than joking about other things. This led, throughout the whole conversation, to making it feel more platonic, rather than personal. Also, when I went to sexualize, she indirectly said that it felt out of character or weird. When I went for the pull, it didn't feel super close or in a bubble. I didn't want to push things at that point, because I could feel that it wasn't going to happen. So I said have a good night, and left.

She said things rhetorically like "are we vibing?". In my head, I'm thinking "quit being autistic". But the insight to glean from her saying that is, I was making moves like we were vibing (like putting my arm around her and getting close), and she didn't feel like we were vibing in that way. Hence, the rhetorical "are we vibing?". The tone of this question wasn't mean or anything, or skeptical, or teasing, but more just rhetorical. This is how you can tell that she wasn't ultimately feeling it. If she was, she would just go with it, rather than saying something in that way.

I like to believe that issues downstream appear due to something you messed up early in the interaction. In this one, I think the lack of personalized teasing, when we were walking to the venue, put it off on the wrong foot. Making it feel friendly/platonic, rather than personal/flirty. Hence, she wasn't "attracted". Hence, the platonic conversation, and each subsequent step not "landing" when I did it. That being said, I'm glad that I can recognize the subsequent steps, and do them, since it is good to get practice doing each step. With sexualizing, I leaned in close. She could definitely feel it, which is good. But, then, her reaction to feeling that way, this is incongruent, and she indirectly said that it felt weird, through some stories she told. This is what it looks like when your good tech doesn't land, because you probably messed something up earlier.

At the end of the date, when we were walking out of the venue and she was going to go home, she asked again "are we vibing?", and I said something like "do you like me?" She said that she thought I was funny, and we had witty banter. My take on this is, she felt like it was good for what it was, but that it felt platonic. Also, that when I deep dived, she said that I said it was "interesting", but like how did you feel about it. The insight here is that when it is platonic like this, you can have a good conversation, but it just feels like everything is at arm's length, because it is platonic. It's like, the things she told me were "interesting", but that is sort of circumspect and impersonal. What does it say about HER, and how I feel about HER? If she was attracted, then your deep dive stuff takes on a whole new meaning, basically that you are trying to understand her, to evaluate her as a prospective mate, rather than just as an "interesting" conversation. So that is the vibe difference there.

What was also good about this date is that I was the chill, cool guy vibe again, similar to last night. This seems good. It is lowkey, not too much. Relatively low energy, but high "sprezzatura". Moreover, I'm just not thinking too much, which is good, because you're not in your head. My reactions aren't too big. I'm moving slowly. My voice is warm and purring, but not in any tryhard way. So this was all good. This is definitely the vibe to continue. That much of technique and way about you, that is good. Keep doing that.

So, we have the sprezzatura vibe good. Deep diving good. Sexualization good. Going for the pull good. Not in terms of results, but in terms of my execution. What messed it all up was that the conversation was not personal, because I didn't tease and flirt with her, right in the beginning.

Okay, now that we've identified where it went wrong, let's zoom in and explore what happened, what causes it to happen, and how we can then fix it.


For some reason, I am not teasing/flirting right in the beginning. Why am I not doing that? It could be a few things.

-- Many (most?) days, I work from home, and talk to basically nobody. Today was one of those days, and I literally didn't talk to anybody all day. This is probably not good for socialization. Yesterday, I had actually gone into the office, and was around other people and talked to them. So maybe I was in a better social mood, or more warmed up. It could be the case that I am not getting enough socializing outside of basically the dates I have been going on, and so when I'm on the dates, I just keep them platonic, because I more just want to talk to someone and have a platonic, friendly, interesting conversation. And so, subconsciously, I am making the interaction go that way, when I first meet up with the girl. So in this hypothesis, the problem is I am not getting enough socialization outside of the date, and so on the date I play it safe just to get my basic socialization needs met for the day. Could be.

-- Health/ exercise/ diet: Today I walked for an hour after work. I walked for an hour total yesterday, too. So I don't think it is this. Moreover, my health is pretty good overall, and I don't have anything too different with my diet over time. So I don't think it is anything here.

-- Afternoon nap: Often when working from home, I will take a 20 or 40 minute nap in the afternoon. I did that today. While this can be good for health and wellbeing overall, maybe it makes me too "satisfied", and so I don't feel the need as much to give my brain happiness via orgasms and skin-on-skin contact. Meaning, when you take a nap, your health and wellbeing feels great, and so you don't feel as ambitious, basically. That is one hypothesis. It's worth testing. Basically, the test would be to not nap, work from home like usual, and then go on a date, and see how easy or not it is to do a seduction and make sure there is attraction (i.e. do it the right way). It is a pretty valid test to run, so I might try it. I don't think this is it, though, but it's worth trying.

-- Maybe she just wasn't that attractive: I don't like this way of thinking, because it externalizes the blame, rather than assessing within myself what is causing it. So I don't like this hypothesis. Moreover, she was perfectly attractive. A yes. That's all you need.

-- I wasn't in the flow from work: There are days when you get work done, but you really didn't get into the creative flow. You did needed work, but it wasn't the creative flow that really gets your juices going. Gives you that zest for life. If you don't have that in your day, you don't feel so psyched to bring a pretty girl into your life. So you self-sabotage, like I did. Today, and more days than I would like to think, I don't really get in a "creative flow". I get needed work done, but it isn't the creative flow. So maybe I could try doing some work like that. I get into that state when writing, and so, I could make do some of this writing after work, before going on the date. That way I am excited about life and ready to knock the socks off any girl who comes within a 10 foot radius of me. This is a hypothesis to test. Basically, I will write 1000 words after work, before going on the date. See if that helps.

-- General exercise: Maybe doing more exercise throughout the day, or before the date, could help. Like doing air squats. I did some pull ups after work before the date. I also walked for an hour, but that doesn't really get your heart rate going. Maybe making sure to do some exercise to really get the heart rate going would get me more excited to have sexy experiences with sexy females.

-- Meditation: Maybe meditating before the date could help. Clear my mind of other things, work, whatever. Probably couldn't hurt.

-- Simply reminding myself that the goal is to have sex with her, not have an interesting platonic conversation. Maybe I just need to remind myself of this. Maybe this is a self-image thing, or picturing what you want to have happen. The picture in your head needs to be about conquest, rather than successful friendly conversation. This could be the case, too.


As you can see, a lot of my hypotheses are about living a full life. Happily, I do enjoy my life a lot, and my work, and I am healthy, thankful, all those things. So don't think that I don't have "momentum" in my life. I absolutely do. I love my life. Maybe I just need more of it. I'm just trying to think of things to try. The lack of socialization outside of dates really seems like one that could be it. You need a level of socialization in your life, outside of dating, or work, or even family time. Yes, those all also involve socializing. But the point is, if you don't have socializing except on dates with girls, then you might subconsciously try to get socializing needs met there. The same thing happens with some salespeople. They try to make prospects they talk to their friends, but don't talk about business problems and have business conversations. As a result, they "make a friend", but don't generate business. You talked about friend stuff, and not business. That's why you aren't doing business together, even though you have a new friend. The lesson is, don't try to get your socializing needs me from sales prospects, nor dating prospects. Get it elsewhere. Or otherwise convince yourself you don't need it? I need to be about "business", on these dates.

Or, maybe I just need to remind myself that it needs to be done. Remember to tease and flirt at the beginning, to build attraction. Then watch as the rest falls into place (assuming you also do those stages well). Just remember to do it. Do it. Remind yourself, and do it. This is definitely something I'll try. Remember to do it. Maybe warming up could help, too. Talk to a doorman, or server, or cashier, or whatever. Warm up in that way. And, just warm up your mental state. That way you don't show up and have to wait a few minutes to warm up.

Another part is, in terms of teasing or flirting well, is getting the feeling of it down well. How do you get the feeling down well? That feeling seems like it is making fun of her. It's fun. And it is lightening up the mood. Like I did last night, on a date similar to this. But in that one, I did tease well, and it worked a lot better. And everything else fell into place. The deep dives felt personal. The sexualization landed. And the pull was pull-y. So that's why you have to establish attraction before doing all the rest. You just do. So I will consciously practice that. I'm writing so much about it here, to get myself to remember its importance, so that I remember to do it, and see the results. Attraction, attraction, attraction. Not to mention, being sharp right off the bat. Good body language, right from the jump. Starting off strong, in that way. Then, attraction. Through testing and flirting, in the first bit.

 

[bobbyb112]

I want to ruminate on some things I saw in the other journals.

One is from @AspiringStoic . He shared these rough stats from an advanced/expert day gamer guy. I have been thinking about my stats recently and wanted to see what "good" looks like. So thank you for sharing!
30 -35 girls spoken to in a week.
15-20 hooks and conversations.
5-8 numbers.
1-2 dates per week.
1 lay for every 4-6 dates.

A lot of these stats are consistent with what I have seen in my own efforts so far. For example, it says 1 lay for 4-6 dates. This is roughly the rate I have been going at. My rate all time is 1 out of 3, and lately (in a new city) it has been 1 out of 4. I just looked at this the other day, so it's cool seeing somebody else's numbers. I really wonder if I can improve that date-to-lay ratio. Indeed, that is what I have been working on, through these journal entries.

5-8 numbers leading to 1-2 dates. That makes sense to me. Even if a girl gives you her number, that doesn't mean she will end up going on a date. I haven't tracked it super close, but my ratio here is much higher. Usually if I have her number, there is like a 90% chance we go on the date. However, there is a reason for this. It is because I am using OLD for my dates. So after talking and proposing the date in the app, she is pretty well ready for it. Whereas, I imagine, with daygame, a girl might give you her number just to be polite, or even as a reward for your boldness, even if she doesn't want to actually go on a date necessarily. Within that, though, I'm sure there are ways to make sure the numbers you get are good. Various daygame tech there, which I haven't done a lot of, but will explore further in the future.

15-20 hooks and conversations to 5-8 numbers. This seems reasonable, since not every girl who even hooks will want to go on a date (and therefore give her number). I know it is totally different, but on the apps, there are many times when you start talking with a girl, and then she just stops responding. That is kind of the corollary here. I don't track those stats, though, because it is not worth my time, on the apps. Although, the apps should keep track of these stats and share them with guys. It would be like a Tinder dashboard! That way you can automatically track these various metrics. That would be cool. Dedicated daters such as myself would love to see this.

30-35 girls spoken to in a week to 15-20 hooks and conversations. So that's roughly speaking half of the opens turning into conversations. That seems about right, based on my limited day game approaches. Girls will often chat, but also sometimes have to keep going and won't stop. Many chats in there. When I did daygame approaches, as often as not, they would be up for a chat/hook.

30-35 girls spoken to in a week. That comes out to 5 per day. This seems doable, in a big city like NYC where the guy was from. There are enough girls around. Might take some time. But seems doable.


@bkw - In his journal, he wrote about some of the various challenges of daytime approaches, in a big city which moves fast. I want to think through for myself what I could to do make daygame work better. Thank you for the prompt!

Environment:
-- If the environment is chiller and slow-paced, then the girl might have more time to talk. Also, potentially use an indirect opener. Examples include: browsing in a clothes store, browsing slowly in a grocery store, browsing in a bookstore, walking slowly in the mall, lying on a towel on the beach, chilling in a coffee shop, waiting for a train/bus. In these places, you know you can potentially open slower, and with an indirect opener. Since she has time to talk, it isn't so make-or-break.
-- If the environment is faster paced, like a busy street, or rush hour to or from work, or she is walking fast down the street, it is more make or break. You might have to have a stronger presence, to break her out of autopilot, and out of whatever she was doing. Street stops are usually more this way, because if she is moving and walking, then by definition she is going somewhere and doing something. Another thing is approaching on less busy side streets, as opposed to the main shopping street. The main really busy street will be hard to get her to stop. There's just too much going on. Whereas on a less busy side street, it is just a little bit less hectic, and she is probably more open to chatting for a minute. Ultra-busy main streets are just too busy to stop and talk with someone, even if you wanted to. At least, it is lower percentage.

Approach Invitations:
-- The corollary for all this is, approach invitations, and spotting girls who want to or are open to being approached, can improve your opening percentage. He says that girls who are ovulating and looking for or more open to a romantic adventure will do a few things, such as show more skin, sway her hips more, walk slower, and look more vulnerable. If you can spot this, I'm betting that the open will be received better. I think Nick Krauser says this in his daygame video on youtube. If you can spot the girls looking for guys, then that helps your percentages.
-- Pre-opens: These are a category that I want to improve on, and really master. Pre-opens can get you warmer opens. They can be subtle, but I want to master this, because I feel like it can really help. But, even if you don't get them, go in anyway. I'll have to re-read the articles about these, and how to get them.

Technical Aspects:
-- Presence: In a fast-paced street stop, presence is key, because you are trying to break her out of autopilot. You have to break her out of the trance that everybody goes through in their day-to-day. One aspect of this is eye contact. Yad talks about this quite a bit. When you have a strong presence, including your eye contact, it can snap her out of her autopilot, and get her to listen. I feel like this is super important, because to get her to stop and talk, you have to have strong presence and eye contact.
-- Fast numbers: I wonder if you could do a fast approach on the street, where she is busy, so you just say give me your number and I'll call you later. I suppose this is what a lot of girls and guys use Instagram for - warming it up by presenting some self-marketing. I don't have IG, and don't want it, but I like the idea of getting a fast number, then calling and talking a little bit later. It is worth trying. This could be good for, say, you're waiting for the subway on your way into work. You don't have time to chat, but you take her number to call or talk later. You're not proposing a date later yet necessarily, but rather just saying let's talk later. I bet a certain percentage of girls would go for it.

 

[AspiringStoic]

One is from @AspiringStoic . He shared these rough stats from an advanced/expert day gamer guy. I have been thinking about my stats recently and wanted to see what "good" looks like. So thank you for sharing!
30 -35 girls spoken to in a week.
15-20 hooks and conversations.
5-8 numbers.
1-2 dates per week.
1 lay for every 4-6 dates.

Oh no. I gave this example of stats that a friend of mine had who was very very average at Game. Nothing special. Average guy, average game but with a consistent daily habit of opening 5 girls. I would not say he was an expert. The guy had not even studied too much Game beyond a pdf of some basics.

My point was that if you are an average guy with normal social skills and just put in consistent effort without worrying too much about the tiny details and just being consistent, you can probably get this kind of success.

5-8 numbers leading to 1-2 dates. That makes sense to me. Even if a girl gives you her number, that doesn't mean she will end up going on a date. I haven't tracked it super close, but my ratio here is much higher. Usually if I have her number, there is like a 90% chance we go on the date. However, there is a reason for this. It is because I am using OLD for my dates. So after talking and proposing the date in the app, she is pretty well ready for it. Whereas, I imagine, with daygame, a girl might give you her number just to be polite, or even as a reward for your boldness, even if she doesn't want to actually go on a date necessarily. Within that, though, I'm sure there are ways to make sure the numbers you get are good. Various daygame tech there, which I haven't done a lot of, but will explore further in the future.

15-20 hooks and conversations to 5-8 numbers. This seems reasonable, since not every girl who even hooks will want to go on a date (and therefore give her number). I know it is totally different, but on the apps, there are many times when you start talking with a girl, and then she just stops responding. That is kind of the corollary here. I don't track those stats, though, because it is not worth my time, on the apps. Although, the apps should keep track of these stats and share them with guys. It would be like a Tinder dashboard! That way you can automatically track these various metrics. That would be cool. Dedicated daters such as myself would love to see this.

30-35 girls spoken to in a week to 15-20 hooks and conversations. So that's roughly speaking half of the opens turning into conversations. That seems about right, based on my limited day game approaches. Girls will often chat, but also sometimes have to keep going and won't stop. Many chats in there. When I did daygame approaches, as often as not, they would be up for a chat/hook.

30-35 girls spoken to in a week. That comes out to 5 per day. This seems doable, in a big city like NYC where the guy was from. There are enough girls around. Might take some time. But seems doable.

Yup its all a funnel just like a sales funnel.

Number of approaches > Number of hooks/conversations > Number of number or social media closes > Number of girls who reply to your message > Number of dates > Number of lays

At every stage regardless of how your Game is, some girls will drop off and the funnel keeps getting narrower and narrower.

This has been my experience and the experience of guys I know in real life who have done cold approach during the day.

Oh by the way I have to clarify this. I am talking about legit COLD approach here. Meaning you spot a girl you like the look of and you just go and open. No waiting for IOIs, no only opening girls of a particular type, in a particular area, doing a particular thing which makes it more likely she has time to talk or that shows that she is already interested in you etc.

Any kind of pre-filtering or narrowing down you do will obviously impact ratios. Personally, I don't care much for that, one of my biggest desires is to be able to open/talk to any woman I feel like talking to regardless of the result. I love that feeling of freedom more than any thoughts or concerns about maintaining or improving my ratios. But that's just me.

Anyways, whenever someone consistently claims a 1:1 ratio about anything I am always very skeptical. Usually they are not telling you something and there is more to it than what they are letting on.

 

[bobbyb112]

Oh no. I gave this example of stats that a friend of mine had who was very very average at Game.

Ohh gotcha, that makes more sense. It's like a "baseline" for if you are very consistent, but are just an average guy as far as game. That's cool to see.

His consistency is inspiring!

I wonder what these funnel stats look like for intermediate/ advanced/ expert cold approach-ers. Would be cool to see. Not because I like overly-fixating on stats and percentages, but just to see how much I can improve. Also, to see which stage I need more work on the most.

---

Hector had a X post I want to ruminate on. Hector has been writing some great X content lately.

"
Online dating guy -

Pros: generally good at moving on fast and doesn’t get too hung up on things cuz of volume. gets good at texting. can hit high lay counts if he streamlines his system. great at dates.

Cons: generally dating the least hot girls of the bunch (tho looks can be quite subjective…so thats a big area of debate - but a few critical factors impact this). Can be missing a LOT of basic social skills that are skipped over when you “order dates online.” bad relationship skills. probably never was the “cool guy” and has some insecurities there

Views: tend to be a bit polarizing in his views and very hedonistic which are conditioned by his sample group
"

Since most of my activity is from OLD, I want to reflect on this.
-- Moving on fast: So true. There is one girl who I went on a first date with a few weeks ago. We didn't get together, and she keeps texting me to go out again. I'm like, girl, you had your chance, what makes you think the second date will be better? I'm moving on, lol. Because there is a high volume of new girls to go out with.
-- Gets good at texting: It depends what your definition of "good" is. I text basically only for logistics and setting up the date. On the app, I basically have a pre-set sequence that I use on every girl, to get a date. It is the same every time. I also have it saved in text-replacement in my phone settings, so I can just pop in the template with 2 taps. Easy. If he means "good" as in good at flirting, banters, and teasing through text, then I have not done that much, so I am not that good.
-- Can hit high lay counts if he streamlines his system: That's the goal! Getting dates is largely streamlined so far. Converting dates to sex is the next real stage to streamline or optimize. I am working on optimizing my logistics set up, and how I run dates, etc, to improve that part. You certainly can get a lot of reps doing this, so I believe it can indeed be optimized.
-- Great at dates: I certainly have had a lot of practice. I'm not sure how we are defining or meaning "good" here. I want to improve conversion rate on dates, so I also feel like a noob, despite having done at least a hundred dates from apps.
-- Generally dating the least hot girls of the bunch: Most of the dates are with girls who are 27-30. As far as attractiveness, most of the time they are not as attractive as girls you can meet in real life. So I would agree here.
-- Can be missing a LOT of basic social skills that are skipped over when you "order dates online": Uh oh, am I missing basic social skills? I wonder what the game tape says. I don't think I'm missing too too many. Could be. I guess you just don't know what you don't know.
-- Bad relationship skills: My longest "relationship" has been only a few months, I can't say I've even ever been in a relationship. So probably not great, by definition.
-- Probably never was the "cool guy" and has some insecurities there: I'm kind of over "being cool". I did it a bit with social circle, and being cool for its own sake is not something I care about anymore. I'm more interested in having sex with womenz. I can be cool when I want, but I prefer just doing things.
-- Tend to be a bit polarizing in his views: Anybody who stands up for something is viewed as polarizing, because most people won't stand up for anything. Now, excuse me while I go post in the Ayn Rand internet chat room.
-- Very hedonistic which are conditioned by his sample group: I wouldn't say I'm very hedonistic: I'm pretty average when it comes to hedonism. I like sex (who doesn't?), and I don't like drinking nor drugs. But I guess on the apps, the girls you do get together with tend to be those who like sex a lot. Similar with nightlife, where, Chase says, the girls who go out are the ones that like sex more. Probably same thing with the apps. So in that sense, yes, by hanging out and trying to have sex with these types of girls, I am more hedonistic. I guess the opposite of hedonism (I'll sleep with any girl who wants to) would be trying to have sex with the types of girls you like. Which requires day game. So I see what he means as far as hedonism.


My big question with this is, should I continue spending my time with OLD, for the purpose of getting extremely good on dates, and really dialing that in, or should I do another type like daygame?

I like how with OLD, I can work on specific aspects of the funnel at a time, and improve them. Getting dates is easy enough. Doing dates and sleeping with her is what I sort of have to optimize for. I sort of want to beat the video game of OLD, before giving it up and going to different types of game.

On the other hand, Hector says that day game gives you, basically, superpowers for dating, and makes you "amazing" at dates, as well as improving most everything social, as well as good relationship skills. He seems to say that day game just trains every part of your game extremely well. So, I guess, if day game helps you really improve all those skills, including dates, then maybe that is the way to go. I just want to improve my skills (and results) the most, and whichever modality does that I want to spend time on.

 

[bobbyb112]

I had a funny "date" last night.

It was from the app. She invited me straight over to her place. We had wine and talked. At a more or less random point, she climbed over on top of me and kissed me. We kissed some. She pulled back. We talked more. I pulled her in for a kiss. She said that she didn't want to have sex, she did when she invited me over, but didn't now. We talked more. I left.

This one was a bit weird to me. It was late for me, although she goes to sleep very late, so she was pretty energetic. But I was tired, so not thinking well. Anyway, apparently she invited me over to have sex. But I guess I moved too slow / not at all, and so she got frustrated. And so when I went for kissing more, she said she didn't want to have sex.

I wasn't sure, too, if this was girlish flirt or like "there's no way we're having sex tonight" sort of thing. But she was straightforward with it. Also, I was in her apartment, so I didn't want to push anything. I asked if I should leave. She said no. So we talked more. Then I went for the kiss again, and she said again that she didn't want to have sex.

I took it as her being rude, saying that she wanted to have sex when I came over, but now she didn't want to. I mean, I wasn't offended, but I viewed it as her trying to be rude by saying that. I guess I'm not sure if that was her intention. But I took it as her trying to be rude, in which case if she was trying to be rude, that meant that she wanted me to leave. She also was foreign and had an accent, so maybe something was lost in translation. Also, she was drinking multiple glasses of wine, and getting a little annoying/obstreperous. I HATE when girls drink too much, and get annoying. First, because it means we can't really have sex, because I don't want to take advantage of when a girl is having more to drink than she should. Second, because they can get annoying, and not able to understand what's going on, and just don't make sense at all. I positively hate when that happens, because all communication breaks down, and there's nothing else to do. I can't even enjoy the time together, because she is drinking and not making sense. So that was super annoying, and I'm glad I left, because she wasn't making any sense by the end.

I suppose I can chalk this up as moving too slow. Moreover, I should have gone in with "eagle eyes", and ready to close, a fast escalation. You do this by testing the waters, in terms of, is she ready to go right when you sit down? Maybe get close and test the waters that way, and if she is ready move forward? It seems funny to be invited over, and then just immediately start escalating. On the other hand, she pretty clearly wanted sex. On the other hand, what if you escalate, and she's like, no, I didn't want that, can you leave? And you're like "I traveled 15 minutes to get here, at least let me sit down for 20 minutes". It's all so funny.

I also was quite tired, so not thinking straight. So that didn't help. Also, her getting tipsy was not helpful. When communication breaks down, nothing constructive can happen. All you can do is leave (or have her leave), and get on with your life. It's too bad. Apparently she wanted sex.

I probably talked myself out of the sale, or talked myself out of sex, by deep diving and having good conversation with her. That was the mistake. You have to read the situation as a whole before going. She invited me straight over. At least make an early move, and she what she does.

I think, maybe, too, that some of this might be ego validation for me. When a girl is asking about me, about my life or interests or whatever, that can feel good. However, this is not good, because it causes you to get ego validation, from something other than sleeping with a girl. Don't get ego validation from girls you aren't sleeping with. Get it from sleeping with girls.

Question to anyone reading: if a girl invites you straight over after meeting on an app, should you just assume that she is ready to get down to business when you get there? It feels weird to me. Especially after not even talking about it on the app. But maybe that app is the context. I need to pay attention to what SHE is expecting, given the context. Given the context, she wanted fast sex, not "seduction and deep diving". Looking back, that is my assessment.

I like the advice of "move faster". Maybe I will compress my dates down to 30 minutes, before going for the pull. I will need some more explicit and clear-cut sex topics to talk about, to make it clear where this is going. I can see how girls can be confused when guys make a move, and it's like, oh, you wanted sex? Did we talk about that? Did I miss some big piece of context? That is pretty much how I feel right now, with this girl. When she went to kiss me, I can only assume it was because she was frustrated that I wasn't making a move already. But I'm like "oh, when did you say you wanted sex?". Or, maybe she just likes kissing.

Someone is probably reading this saying "dude, how did you fumble a girl inviting you directly over to her apartment?". Someone please enlighten me as to what happened.

 

[bobbyb112]

I've been noticing a pattern on dates.

There is often a point in the date, when I am talking with her, when I am asking about her, and she is talking. Then, I either don’t follow up with a line of questions, or lose focus and get bored, and that invites her to turn it back to me. I’m not sure why I do that. I can feel that it turns the conversation friendly, because it’s like, having a back and forth. Instead of just keeping the focus on her, and getting and allowing her to feel connected, which leads to seduction.

That is what you want, for her to talk about things she likes, or is important, because it makes her feel more connected to you. Which leads to seduction.

So I’m trying to figure out why I “let the fish off the hook” at this point in the conversation, and let it turn “two sided and platonic”, instead of continuing, and building that connection that will lead to sex.

Is it because I just wasn't recognizing this before? Is it because I’m not really attracted to her? Is it because I’m not horny enough? Is it because I’m too in my head? Is it because I’m not focused? Is it because I’m subconsciously looking for social interaction instead of sex? Is it becuase I’m looking for ego validation through this person asking me about me, instead of ego validation through sleeping with her? Is it because I’m tired from a long day and am feeling lazy? These are all potential causes.

You can feel it though. It turns from having most of your attention on her, to her on you, and then it starts to feel platonic or friendly, rather than seductive. Maybe this is the point where I'm messing up, though. For now let's assume that "feeling tired" or other motivation issues aren't the cause, rather that it just an action that I have to take and haven't been doing. So what action can I take to remedy this?

Basically, I think the main thing is keeping the focus on her. Now, this might take some effort, and paying attention to make sure to do it. You are leading the interaction in this way. I find that if I don't focus, often I will get in my head, as opposed to being horny. I wrote a few days ago that "not thinking" was a small breakthrough that I had made. Well, now I need to work on "not thinking", because I'm thinking too much! Instead, keep it focused on her, and don't let the fish off the hook, at this point.

When I do let her ask about me, and tell too much about me, then it just turns platonic. Chase had a tweet or article recently with a study saying how when the girl tells you about her, she feels connected. Whereas if the guy tells her about him, she doesn't feel connected, and it doesn't lead to sex.

I guess this is what "leading" means, which is taking the actions needed to lead to sex. Sometimes in these conversations, I think, she is a terrible conversationalist, she isn't asking about me at all. So, I pause my questions, and give her the chance to. Problem is, if we do this, then it doesn't lead to sex. But, sex is the mutual best goal, so why do women do things that don't lead to it?

It's like with sales, the prospect might be better off solving their problems, but they aren't going to sell themselves. You as the salesperson have to ask the questions that will get them to tell themselves why they would buy. Similarly, in seduction, you have to ask the questions that will get the girl to feel connected to you. So then she will be comfortable, so you can talk about sex topics, so she will be mentally prepared for having sex with you, so she will decide and say "yes, I would have sex with him".

So, in short, keep the conversation focused on her, and plough if you have to. What do I mean here? Just keep asking her stuff. I guess it can come across like an interrogation if you do it too rapidly. But the point is, keep it focused on her, lead her, and keep it focused on seduction, rather than getting your ego needs met by having someone ask about you.

Note, too, you might think "it sounds like you are trading your attention for sex". If by attention you mean looking at her and not really listening, then no, that won't work. I'm talking about active listening. Which is the art and science of drawing out deep or important information from her. The conversationalist, as Chase says. And to be a good conversationalist, you get things out of her, rather than vice versa. So that is what that means.

Maybe I just need to be more animated and therefore interested in what she has to say. It feels like sometimes I ask, but I don't really care. By extension, not caring about the date. Not caring is not good. You don't want to be attached to the outcome, but not caring about her at all isn't good, either. Maybe I have to get myself to care about doing well, instead of going through the motions. For what reason? What is the motivation to give a hoot and care about doing a good job? That comes back to motivation, which is outside the scope of this post!

So, keep it focused on her. That is perhaps the silver bullet in sales and interpersonal interaction. Keep it focused on her. In teasing, flirting, deep diving, all of that. Focused on her.

 

[OldGuy]

When she invites you over from an app, unless you are not what she expected, go for the lay.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date last night.

Met at the first bar, it was busy so walked to the second. Sat and talked and got a drink. Vibed a bit. She asked if I lived alone. I said yes. Waited a minute or two. Invited her back using the wine pull line. She said maybe. She then asked what I was looking for. I said nothing serious, because I recently got out of an LTR. I asked what she wanted, and she said just to meet people (non answer). I said cool. We kept talking. She said something like "what else should I know about you?" I turned it back to her. We had a little back and forth. She asked if there were any other good bars in the area. I said yeah there are a few, and asked her about if there were any in her area. She said yeah. Talked a little more. Conversation died down. I looked away. Said it was getting late, had to get going. She said yeah I do too. We paid the tab, and left.

So, nothing crazy given the description above. But there were a few BIG things I did differently on this date differently, and I think it made a huge difference. The first, I spoke from the chest, which was deeper, slower, and more powerful/ warm/ intimate. The way I thought about this, as I was walking to the date, was that you kind of talk like you can't exhale through your nose. That sounds weird. But that is how it felt to me. This makes your voice deeper, as you speak from the chest. It is like when you have are sick, and your nose is stuffy, so you don't breath through it at all. It gives you a deeper, slower, and more powerful voice. Which is of course great for seduction.

It is more of an "honest signal". Meaning, it feels like it is coming from the real you, like it is genuine. This is good, because people like people who are authentic. This also correlates with "not thinking", which is bit of a major mistake I have been making in my usual dates. If you are THINKING too much, rather than FEELING, then you might come off witty, maybe even charming, but not seductive and sexy. This deep, slow, authentic voice felt sensual, and much more "primal". The thing is, I could still "think", meaning I could analyze in my head what was going on, and come up with a witty remark if I wanted to. But those were in service to the primal sexual attraction I felt for this girl, which was the overriding feeling. Any wittiness was in service of the primal sexual desire or urges, rather than the point in and of itself.

My goal for today had been to get out of my head and into my body. Don't think, feel. Don't be clever, go for the goal, which is getting it in. Feel sexual attraction. Be in your body. Assess everything and make moves based on your sexual desire, rather than logical or thinking fancy wittiness, jokes, or things you "should" do. I forget if I wrote about this in this journal, but it is like a soccer player who is doing fancy dribbles, or passing the ball just because they feel like they need to pass it. Those actions might seem good, but they are not. Why? Because, the real desire of the soccer player should be ... putting the ball in the goal! Many players don't even look up to see if the goal is open. Or if the goalkeeper is not in a place they should be, so you can take a shot. As a soccer player, the goal is not to show off fancy footwork or even crisp passing skills. Although those can come into play. The goal at all times should be to see if you can put the ball in the goal.

Similarly, I have been thinking so much about deep diving, being witty, teasing through jokes, that I was taking my eye off the prize. Which is feeling sexual desire, and seeing how close she is to giving herself permission to get with me. And what she needs, in the seduction, to feel that way. I have been focused on MY fancy footwork and tactics, rather than HER needs at a given moment. Part of what helped about this "talk low and slow" thing was that it gave me the time to think of proper response to things. Not that I was perfect. But it helped.

I think I was too much breaking rapport. As in, I feel like a good subtle smirk would help, rather than no smiling, like I was. I felt almost too detached. Sort of. I don't know. I felt like I was able to feel the interaction more. Which was good, because I could more easily determine where we were, and what we needed.

One item that totally didn't work was the seating. We sat in some seats that were separate chairs. Terrible for getting touch. I don't usually do this, but there weren't a lot of other seats, and we had to go somewhere. Terrible, though, because we were far away from each other. I guess it might've been okay to start off with. But to get touch you have to get closer.

Basically we talked about deep dive stuff for a bit. She told about stuff. I did too. I'm trying to find the balance between telling stuff about myself, and being evasive. I don't want to come across as evasive. But she was aggressive with her questions. Do I just not answer? I lowkey might not, next time. I don't like answering questions. Then again, you can't really invite someone out and not answer questions. But hey, maybe we should just not have a drink, then.

When she asked if I lived alone, I took that as a pull question. Chase has an article where he seems to say that this is a pretty strong pull indicator, an escalation window that you have to jump through. In my own dates, usually it seems like whenever I try to pull soon after her asking that question, she doesn't say yes, and you revert to wherever you actually were. Maybe it is only a pull indicator if it is in the appropriate part of the seduction. Meaning, later, after you have deep dived, after you have talked about sex topics, after you have gotten closer physically. Maybe I shouldn't be taking it so dogmatically that "this is a pull indicator". It didn't seem to be, in this case.

Another example of that is, in some article Chase said that if she asks where you live, that is also a strong pull indicator. Problem is, what if she asks you where you live, right after meeting up, like while you're making chit chat walking to the venue? That is what this girl did tonight. I think that I took Chase's article as too literally when he said those were pull indicators. I think what he really meant was "if she asks where you live, or if you have roommates, in the stage of the seduction when it makes sense to pull, then that is an indicator that she wants you to pull her, so pull her". Rather than, if it is when you are making chit chat walking to the venue upon first meeting, then it is just small talk. Or if it is in the middle, between deep dive and talking about sex topics, it is just something to talk about. It doesn't mean she is ready to pull. Unless anyone reading this thinks otherwise. I'd love to be able to successfully go for a pull in the first minute of meeting a girl after just talking on an app! But it seems like it is just small talk if she asks at that point.

In the conversation, we did deep diving, then I felt that it was time to get closer and sexualize. Problem is, I didn't have a great way to do that. Moreover, I was getting buzzed from the drink, which doesn't help, so I didn't feel like figuring anything crazy out. I asked if she wanted to sit on the couches nearby, which were reserved for people but were empty at the moment, but she said she was fine sitting there. I could/ should/ would have done this move more aggressively, or to another couch type area nearby, but I was feeling lazy, more or less. I think this might've been after the failed pull attempt, so I was kind of like "fuck it, I've gotten all I want to out of this date, so I don't want to put more effort into making things happen".

I felt that I needed to touch and get closer. But with the big chairs, there was no good way to do that. Another option there, to make a smooth transition from deep dive to sex topics, would be to change venues. Bounce her to a second place. She even hinted at that, asking if there were other places around that I liked. I took this as a hint, anyway. Thing is, I almost always regret going to a second location when I do. Mostly because I don't much like going out to lounge/ bars anyway, so going to another isn't my idea of fun. Second because it might mean I'd have to get another drink, and I really don't like drinking, so I would not enjoy that. Third because I didn't have the logistics of another bar figured out (most of them would probably be too busy, and loud. The place we went to is pretty much the only place nearby to me that is no super loud). So, for all those reasons, I didn't like the idea of going to another venue. I might be willing to move within the venue, though. This movement could potentially allow you to transition into sitting close and touching, etc. Then again, maybe not.

When I went for the pull, and she said maybe, then she asked "what are you looking for?". This indicates to me that we needed to go into the sex topics part of the seduction. Meaning, the reason you have the talking about sex topics part, is that, well, it gets the topic of sex on the table. Which tells her where this would potentially go (sex). If you don't do that, then she might wonder what you are looking for (sex, friends, business partnership, circus performer buddy, whatever). If you don't talk about sex, how will she know that that's what you're looking for with her? That's why this section exists. This is why you have to do it.

It's like with the other night, when the girl invited me straight over for hers. We sat in her living room, and drank a glass of wine. What part of that says "I want sex right now"? If it was in the bedroom, then yes. But living room? Maybe she just didn't want to go out, and would rather socialize in her living room. When did she say she wanted sex? I know that assessment is not correct now, but for a girl on a date with a guy, you can see how she would want some sort of answer to "what do you want?" (sex), without saying to too directly, but also without skirting the topic altogether.

I was listening to the podcast with Chase and Skills this week. They talked about "sex talk" as popularized by Alek Rolstad, where you might say for example the "8 types of orgasms" gambit. It is great as a repeatable way to talk about sex, and show you are "good at it", without outright saying "I am good at sex". Moreover, it talks about sex, in a plausibly deniable way, because it is sort of third party. I am still looking for ways to talk about sex topics, at this stage in the interaction. I need to consume some info on how to do talk about sex topics. Because that is what my interactions need.

I am glad, though, because this deep voice thing does seem to make me feel more sexual, which is the first step to making sex talk "land". That is, before, with my in my head vibe, talking about sex or making innuendos about it would seem forced or just not land, because it wasn't consistent with my vibe. But now that I have more of a sexual, primal, in my body feeling vibe, the sex topics can land a lot better and more consistently. At least, for me, it feels a lot more consistent for me to talk about sex topics, if my vibe is also sensual, primal, and in my body, and desirous.

One problem with this sensual, primal, in my body feeling, was that I wasn't really smiling. There is sort of a happy medium between "smiling a lot and being talkative" and "not smiling like you're mad at the world even if your voice is deep and strong". You don't want to be too "talkative", neither "mad at the world". So where is that happy medium? I will have to play around with this. I need to feel in my body, but also happy, and also strong, and also desirous, and also sensual. All at the same time.

I think this come from feeling in your body, and then doing a slight smirk. I have done this recently, especially on dates that were more successful. Part of the reason I am so enthused about this sensual, low, deep voice thing today is, usually when I go on dates after work after a day of working by myself at home talking to nobody, I am too in my head, and it doesn't go well. However, today, I did the work at home not talk to anybody thing, yet was able to feel in my body and sensual on this date. That is a step in the right direction. However, I probably took it too far, by not smiling enough, and having fun. Which would have come from a slight smirk, like I have been doing recently when it was working. But instead, I went basically no smile, which was probably too much.

Dates that have been working over the last month or so have been on weekends, when we get coffee, or I just have all day beforehand to walk outside and enjoy life. Those dates have gone better, compared to the dates that are at night on a weekday after a long day of work. I think it because on those weekend dates, I was feeling sensual and in my body, and not overly logical or in my head, because I wasn't working during the day. Other dates that seemed to go better were when I went out and talked to people during the day, and was around other people. Then at night, when I went out for the date, I was more warmed up. Maybe it is just warming up, and being around people in the day.

However, it needn't be the case that weekday or non-warmed-up times are not as good as warmed up ones. As long as I figure out what I'm doing on the good dates that I'm not on the not good dates, I can just do those things, and then I'll be good no matter what happened before in the day. So for that reason, I felt like this date was huge progress, because I felt good and did well enough, on a weekday, after not talking to or being around people all day.

The happy medium of sensual, in your body, and also happy, is a small smirk. This helps you give off positive energy, the slight smile, while also being grounded, strong, sensual, desirous, and sexual, and with the eye on the prize.

Also, I feel like I can feel when I'm thinking too much, or a lot. Basically, the energy is in your brain. As opposed to, say, your body. Keep the energy in your body. I remember Chase had a book recommendation about personality types. I forget if I read part of the book or something, but one of the personality types was like logical guy who gets lost in their thoughts. The upside is a strong analytical bent, determined to break things down and figure them out. Downside is getting lost in their thoughts, and making up theories in their head without testing them in the real world. The world in their heads is so strong, that they can avoid the outside world in favor of their thoughts. Reading that, I'm like, oh yeah, that sounds like me. At least at times. I love me some thoughts. But whenever I feel like I am coming up with too big of a grand theory, I make sure to test it in the real world, because otherwise it just lives in my head and I get lost in that world.

That is one benefit of being around people during the day, so you can "warm up", and keep your social muscles sharp. Not always possible, but helpful when you can. And/or, just learn what good feels like, so you can do it from a dead stop.

Another part of this date was, when she asked what I was looking for, then I asked her, she said like just meeting people, meeting interesting people in the city (she was relatively new to that city). This is a non-answer, but also keeps the door open, I guess. I don't really know what I was looking for there as far as an answer from her. What would be a good answer? Girls can't really come out and say they are looking for something casual. Saying they want something long-term only can be aggressive, too, if they don't think they can pull it off, or if they are thinking of you for short term, I guess. But for a girl who isn't already DTF, asking a question like this, you are asking for a non-answer. But I didn't know what to say or do next, so I just asked her what she asked me.

Another thing I am glad about in this date. We were done and gone in no more than 53 minutes. That is great. The date didn't drag on. It didn't take forever. We got what we needed, and got out. I want to make dates shorter, because first, going longer doesn't seem to improve outcomes. Second, it forces you to get what you need, and get it fast. Third, it forces you to move faster, in terms of getting to what you need, moving things forward to where they have to go, and getting a yes/no without spending your whole evening. Normally, I have been doing dates, and sort of it drags on, in part due to my bad game. But, then even if it isn't going great, I hang around, because I figure any experience is good experience, and maybe I can try some things out. Or have a good chat. Problem there is, it trains yourself to be friendly, because you will be there a while, and talk about things that are not conducive to a seduction. So, this time, I cut it short, and stopped the date, because I could see it had run its course, and there was not much use staying longer. Or, at the very least, doing them faster will force me to get what I need faster, move faster, get close faster, pull faster, and get to sex faster.

As far as logistics for sitting, I have some seats in mind that I will use from now on. No more random seats. Only the ones that I think are okay (the venue is not perfect, indeed I don't have a venue I love in the area, I would love to find a great one). This way, we can get close, I can invite her back, if she comes she comes, if not oh well. No more hang out and be friendly. Seducing only.

In the place I used to live, at the bar I would take dates to, the logistics in venue were pretty consistently set up. This was good, because I could usually sit relatively close to the girl. Right next to her. Then, as you want to "get closer", you could move into her space pretty easily. I'm romanticising the past, because I think you'll read posts in this journal saying how that venue wasn't perfect either and that it's hard to get close using it. Funny how that works, idealizing the past somewhat. It did have good points, though, such as no loud music, and lots of consistent seating, on weeknights.

How do guys do sex topics, other than Alek Rolstad's sex talk? I have my big deep dive topics, which include job, hobbies/fun in free time, travel. Those are the big three of deep dive topics for me. Although I'm open to more topics, too, if someone has something they believe would be helpful. But for sex topics, what can be my 3-5 canned topics to go to? I got my deep dive questions from Chase's article on "8 questions to ask her". I basically just memorized those, when I was first getting into dating.

Thinking back to that article, he had the question of "what do you think of me so far?" and "is that good?". When would you use these? I would imagine towards the end of sex topics, as opposed to the end of deep dive. You are essentially checking the "buying temperature" with that question. Presumably her buying temperature is not that hot after deep dive, without getting into sex topics.

Other questions from that article include "what were you like a kid?" and "ever go on any crazy adventures?". I have tried those at various times. Maybe I should get back to them. "How far do you usually plan ahead?" was another. I don't quite get the point of that one. Do you want her to plan ahead? Do you want her to not plan ahead? Usually when I asked that, I would get some common sense answer, like "I mean I plan far ahead for things like vacations, but not like what I'm doing on a given day in 2 weeks". So I'm not sure what you're trying to get from that question. What were you like as a kid, I also didn't get much with this one, because it doesn't feel like most people identify much with how they were as a kid. "I don't know, I just did normal kid things". That's about the same with me. So I haven't been able to get much with that question. Ever go an any crazy adventures. This one is decent, because you are asking her to be adventurous. Is having sex adventurous? I don't know, it seems kind of commonplace to me. Maybe for a not very experienced girl, it is exciting though.

I could also screen for creativity, if that's something I like in a girl. I might use that on some. I should use that more. More explicitly asking her to qualify herself. But hey, might as well. I could ask the adventurous question, too. Problem is, it seems too transparent. Like, I can see where this is going, buddy. I don't want to be too transparent. But hey, I'm qualifying on what I'm qualifying on. If she isn't about it, then don't be about it.

So maybe I should make sure to have these as two qualifying things. Creative, and adventurous. Talking about travel and be adventurous, but oftentimes travel is sort of a bland topic, because it's like "yeah of course I like traveling, who doesn't?". Where the real thing I'm trying to get from that is to see if she is adventurous. Although there are those percentage of girls really like travel as a thing. So if they have legitimately traveled a lot and are really into it as a hobby, then it can be good to talk about from a deep diving perspective. So you sort of have work/job, hobbies (can be travel, if she is really it), then qualify on creativity, then qualify on adventurousness. So you kind of warm up to getting her to qualify herself on creativity. If you start with asking her to qualify like this, she might not be up to the challenge. But if you warm up with job and hobbies, then it can make more sense. Then, if she has qualified herself on creativity, you can qualify her on adventurousness. The qualifying here is good, and it also transitions nicely into sexual topics. From there, you can ask about tattoos, [insert other sexual topics I will figure out and come back to here].

Move closer as you do this. Get closer through this section. Seed a pull. Things die down. Then you pull.

I like this flow for the deep dive/connection section. Job, hobbies, creativity, adventurousness. A good flow to get you what you need.

I like the idea of getting what you need. That is, think of it as, if you get what you need, then she will sleep with you. Moreover, you can get what you need in a short amount of time, or a long amount of time. Short is better. Asking her to qualify herself is useful, especially for girls who are not DTF, but are winnable. Because you are asking them to really invest. This is strong investment, I think. Or maybe it isn't. Someone reading this can tell me. For adventurousness, it is also investment for her to qualify herself. And, of course, it transitions into sex topics.

I have had a number of dates where I didn't qualify on creativity (or adventurousness). I should be doing that every time. It gets you a lot of good things.

I also should probably be only going on dates with slimmer girls. This girl looked slim enough in her pictures, but the in real life it was the classic "pictures from 3 years ago and now she is getting plumper". Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. It's so much easier to try or care or put the effort in or ask a slim girl to qualify herself, you know? It's so much easier to be aggressive with moves, touch, get close, and do all these things, when she is slimmer. It feels right. With a formerly slim girl who is getting plump, it is like fighting your inner self. I'm being melodramatic.

Qualifying on creativity and adventurousness seems useful. I want to do more of that.

I think I just wrote for like 2 hours straight. It's 4500 words. Call me Anthony Trollope.

 

[OldGuy]

"Do you live alone?" - probing for logistics
"Maybe" - persuade me
"Just to meet people" - Anti-slut Defense for to have sex

 

[bobbyb112]

"Do you live alone?" - probing for logistics
"Maybe" - persuade me
"Just to meet people" - Anti-slut Defense for to have sex

Thank you for the clarity! Those explanations are so commonsense, that I feel like an idiot for overcomplicating it so much. I'm learning.

 

[bobbyb112]

I'm having a little bit of a good problem.

There are a few girls who are "in play", meaning that they want to see me again. I have seen one 3 times, the second twice, and the third once, but she wants to see me casually again (to have sex). The problem is, these are not girls that I would want as girlfriends, but they are down for what appears to be FWB set ups. This is good, because I'm glad that they want to see me again for further sex. The problem is, it can take away motivation to go on dates with new girls, potentially stalling my pickup progress.

On the other hand, it can be good to practice this early-relationship stage. These would be FWB girls, but Chase says that the early part of a girl for a relationship is mostly the same as FWB. You see her once every say 7-10 days, although more frequently for the first 2-3 times can be beneficial to lock it in that you are seeing each other. Now, these girls know that I want casual, because I told them. And I guess my actions match it so far. So that is all consistent.

So anyway, should I be continuing to try to see these girls again, as an FWB thing, and to practice "early relationship" game? Or, should I cut if off, and go looking for the next conquest(s)? Ideally you would do both. Keep the FWB stuff going, while also going on dates to find more. I guess this is how you build a "rotation". It is just girls you close and they want to see you again, so you see them however often, and it is say 3-5 girls or whatever. This could be fun to set up, just to do it. It would give you practice running the early-relationship stage (running good relationships is one of my ultimate goals). You would also still be practicing your pickup/seduction skills, because you are trying to find new girls. So you can practice all skills at once.

A potential issue though is motivation, and persistence, when you already have regular sex. People reading along will notice that I botched one easy lay this week, and another I didn't persist halfway through the date, even though she seemed interested and there was a lot more I could have done. I view these mess ups as more of a motivation issue, rather than skill, necessarily. Although I definitely need to work on my skills. But still, I feel like I would have persisted more, if I already wasn't having somewhat regular sex. Then again, each day is a new day, and each new day I need sex with somebody. So that should be all the motivation I need to make it happen with a new girl. So I don't know. Maybe I should just try to keep all of them going and continue to go on more dates, too. Just do it all. I can. More, more, more of everything.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date last night.

She was from the app. 30 years old. In sales. We met in front of the first place, then walked to the place I am liking lately. I teased a bit. We sat at the bar and talked. Deep dived. Got into some sexual topics. I went for the pull. She laughed, and said no. I said something, and she said "I don't want to fuck around anymore". I said "I would hate to take you off your chosen path". We continued talking, and I pulled back with my touch and interest. She said she had to go for dinner, she had also mentioned doing something else that night, so she paid for both our drinks, then we left.

I felt like I did a lot of good things. I felt in the moment and flowing pretty well, as far as the conversation is concerned. I turned deep dive questions back on her, for the most part, while also telling some things about myself. I would say it was mostly about her. The teasing was light. The sexual topics, there were some. I missed a chance to sexual prize myself, though.

During it, and after the deep diving, I got closer to her, and touched her hands and leg. She said she liked how I was tactile, she was tactile too. I had her show me her ring, her necklace. Right before I tried to pull, I was looking in her eyes rather strongly. She said "I'm blushing, it usually takes a lot for me to blush". I'm not sure if her saying this is good or not, because instead of her telling me that, I would rather just see the effects of it. On the other hand, she was very comfortable talking and having conversations and stuff, so maybe she was just very aware of what was going on. And good at verbalizing stuff.

She laughed when I went for the pull. To myself, I was like, should I be offended? If nothing else, confused. So I asked somehow, I forget what I said. She said something like "I'm trying to get myself not to fuck around anymore". I read this as her admitting that she has "fucked around before" in the past, knows she needs to do less of it, and so is consciously trying to stop herself from doing it. Maybe, too, that is why she said that she had dinner and the other thing, to give a reason why she couldn't stay too long that night.

Of course, as a guy, I'm hearing this, I'm like, first, it sounds like I thought we were vibing and you liked me, and I tried to move it forward, and she laughed. So I'm like, a little offended. I'm not butthurt. But it's like, if you're vibing and then you suggest being alone together and she laughs, it's like, well gee, I guess I shouldn't pursue this line of inquiry, then. It is breaking rapport somewhat majorly, on her part.

The long and short of it with this girl is, she doesn't seem to like me enough to want to spend more time with me, nor break her "rules" for me, so that kind of ends it for me. She doesn't like me enough. Fair. I'll move on.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is, is it a her thing, or a me thing? Did I mess up? Was there a better way I could've played it? Maybe. I like to take the mentality that I should be able to close any girl I go on a date with. That is a better mindset for me.

During the date, I was sort of twisted towards her, in my seat. You know how when your hips are facing one way, but your upper body is twisted towards something? I don't think this is strong posture. And I think it made me appear weak. I don't like that. You want strong body posture at all times.

I did screen on creativity. I asked if she did anything creative. She gave an example. This is good. She told about travel. I said it was adventurous, and I thought that was cool. So those two questions seemed to help, from a qualification perspective, and a transition into sexual topics. I'm glad I had a clearer idea of where I wanted to take it, too, rather than floundering around. Those questions, in addition to the previous deep dive topics of work, hobbies, and travel, make for a good "connection" section. So it's work, hobbies, travel (if she likes it), screen creativity, screen adventurousness, then go into sexual topics (TBD on good sexual topics). I like this flow, because it is repeatable, transitions well, and gets you where you need to go.

I'm not butthurt about her laughing at my suggestion to go be alone together, but still, I feel like there is a more gracious way to say "no". However, I can't deny the efficient communication of it. Directness can be useful. She was not American, and I find that girls not from America are often more direct. That can also be viewed as not having tact, or not having strong social skills. But hey, bluntness can be efficient. "No". Okay then. Instead of "I have to get up early tomorrow" or "I have to go feed my cat" or "I'm traveling tomorrow so I have to bring my cat to my neighbor's". Those also means no. But keeps the possibility open. But hey, a quick "no" can be useful.

She paid for the drinks, which was nice. I don't want to read too too much into that, because it's not a big deal. But hey, maybe she was viewing it as being appreciative of my conversational ability. On the other hand, maybe she felt bad about not liking me at all, and so wanted to pay for my drink. Or maybe I'm just reading into it too much. Anyway, that was a refreshing change of pace.

Today I didn't socialize at all during the day, so I'm glad that I did seem to find the social and conversational flow easy enough when we got into it. I kind of even impressed myself. Nice. What I did do today, I walked around outside a bit, and exercised. So maybe refreshing walks and exercise are beneficial for feeling good and social and in the flow. I'll have to remember that for other days.

Lol, she unmatched on the app. Jeez! I thought I gave her a good date experience! I can understand her not wanting to "fuck around". But hey, I said when we texted on the app that I wasn't looking for anything serious. Can't say I didn't tell her. Again, I can understand if what I'm offering is not what she wants. But I thought I gave her a good experience on the date. What's funny is, on the date, she said that she has gone on a lot of dates from the apps lately, and they haven't been good. The funny part there is, however they were, she is probably going to say the same thing about me, now. Lol. I think Chase had an article or tweet the other day, about how if a girl says bad things about her prior boyfriends, she's probably going to say it about you, too. That indicates either 1. she is bad at picking guys or 2. she is a malcontent of some sort. You're next. Yeesh.

What's funny too, we had matched like 3 months ago. We were going to set up a date, but then she said that she had traveled to another country and was getting serious with a guy there, so didn't want to go on a date with me. Girls sometimes say this, from the apps. Another girl, the other day, we were setting up a date, but then she said "I have to tell you, I'm going on another date this week". How quaint. I don't get why she is telling me that, first off. Second off, it just would make her seem bad at keeping guys if she ever got in touch later to do something. What happened to that other guy, eh? Eh? I guess she could say something beneficial to her (oh, he proposed marriage, but I don't know if I'm ready for that). I don't know what she would say. I kind of want to ask now.

Anyway with this current girl, we then matched recently, 3 months later. She gave me her number. I put it in my phone, and saw this conversation about the other guy from 3 months ago. I said hi, she said lol it looks like we've talked before. I just did a ;P and proceeded setting up the date. Maybe I should have teased around the foreign guy she had mentioned before? Should I have done that, to put her in her place? Or at least acknowledge it more, to give her a chance to explain herself. Maybe I will try that next time. Thing is, I don't really want to know or care about other guys in her life. Just that she makes time for me, and follows my lead (and otherwise further adds value to my life). Like, yeah, I know there are other guys in your life. I know you are probably going on other dates. I would be worried if you weren't! You don't have to tell me about it (at this point, before we've even met for the first time).

Anyway, I wonder if this girl is just bad at picking guys. Or bad at keeping them. Or is too picky with her standards. Or too judgy about what a good date is or not. Or is feeling negative on dating/men because she is not getting what she wants. I don't know. I don't have enough information. Weird, because she seemed really personable and all that. Also, even though she was in business, she didn't do that thing where women will use a deep, masculine voice, which makes them sound like a dude. She had a natural feminine voice. Which, in my mind, should mean that plenty of guys would want to date her. Anyway, I hope she finds what she is looking for!

It's funny to me talking about travel with girls. Because if they have been to a lot of places, it sounds to me like "I fucked at guy in Colombia, I fucked a guy in Australia, I fucked a guy in Greece, I fucked a guy in...". I hope I am not betraying any judgmentalness if I hear that she's traveled a lot of places. I don't think I have. Maybe I should view it less judgementally, too. Just hear it as "I like stimulation and will need a lot of it to seduce me". Hear it as the key that unlocks the way to seduce her, rather than disappointment at lack of potential for a long-term mate.

I should use a more sexual, slower, knowing tone, rather than interested. More sly, if you will. That seems more conducive to sexualizing things. My voice tonight was interested and strong, I think, but not so sensual/sexy. At least not as much as it could be. I want to work on that.

Things to work on: sensual/sexy voice tone in addition to strong. Sexual topics. The flow for connection including screen on creativity as well as adventurousness.

The sexy tone will help in some of this. I'm glad in this date, because I didn't feel too "nice" in my tonality. I felt more strong and leading. But sexy could've been added more. That would help turn it sexual. Add to the feel of it. It is sexy. I want to be sexy man. For all those girls out there looking for sex men.

The other thing is that the music was playing pretty loud. I dislike when the music is loud. It makes her think "wow, party night. I better go find the next party!". The problem with loud music is, that if I talk too sensually, it is usually quieter, and she can't hear me. What do you do? As opposed to sensual, which makes her think, I am feeling sensual, I want to be alone with a sexy man. So quiet, sensual music is better for this. Usually on Thurs-Sat the music is louder. Especially Fri-Sat. I would pay money to go somewhere without loud music. How about a subscription-only venue where you can bring dates, but it is chill and with couches you can sit next to each other, that feel private, and the music is sensual, and the light are dim, and the spaces are cozy. A seducer's dream, eh? Maybe I need to explore more to find a place.

For voice, I think I have a way to almost ways have a sexy tone. I intend to use it on my next date, and see how it goes. It could be a real game-changer (inserts hypey cliffhanger for the next post).

---

Chase had an article today about how to make time and socialize more and get dates IRL. I think it's funny, because there are so many articles he writes where it's like "hey, that's exactly what's happening to me!". It has always been this way, where his articles on girls and dating just hit so close to home with what I was experiencing, that I was like, how does he know me so well. His articles have always been like this, going back 10 years or however long he has been writing. Impressive. I like how they come at it from a more everyday life perspective, vs. a common approach from seducer guys that is 1. romantically poetic and vague 2. narcissistically emotional and sensational 3. mysteriously artistic and vague.

I get that those other styles reflect the successful seduction style of the writing. In other words, the guy talks/writes narcissistically emotional and sensational, because that is how he talks in real life, and it works for him for getting girls. I get that. I also get that some guys talk mysteriously vague and poetic, because that is how they talk in real life, and works for them for getting girls. So, in theory, reading or consuming that writing could be beneficial for developing your own communication style for successfully getting with girls.

In practice though, they aren't nearly as helpful as something that says "do this, say this". I can get poetic later. I can get mysterious later. For now, just give me what to say. I guess what comes next is "how to say it". I get that. It's just, understanding the tonality in writing is just virtually impossible. Audio/visual, it seems to me, is much better for that. That is why movies are good.

Anyway, point is, I love Chase's articles because he breaks what is happening down into an insightful way. As opposed to writing artistically, mysteriously, and vaguely, even if those "styles" work on girls. Give me something practical to do. Then, I will piece the tonality and vibe together, mostly from watching movies, other people in real life, and experience in the field.

Another useful source is audio via podcasts. The recent interview with Skills was interesting. He has this sort of latin twinge in his voice, which it seems like a lot of seducers end up using. Does Chase have that, too? Maybe. I'd have to hear more examples. I do try to model my voice off of Chase's, especially after I have listened to one of his podcasts or re-watched one of the youtube videos. Or re-watched Sean Connery James Bond movies. All those are good examples.

What would be great, I think, is an audio course, with an expert seducer saying the words in the way that he would on a date, with girls. Audio is highly valuable. Video can be, too. But I feel like audio gets like 90% of the way there, because humans are actually really good at picking up emotion or feeling through the voice. Plus, having audio would make it easy to listen to as you're out on a walk. As opposed to video, which you have to stream while walking, using a ton of data, and you have to avoid clicking off the video with the phone in your pocket. Just audio is way better.

Giving ample examples, in this audio program, would be the way to do it. Little to no theory. Or, theory in a practical sense, as in, what I'm going, and why I'm doing it. Not autistically deep reasons, but just, I'm touching her more because I'm rewarding her, and it shows interest, and I'm testing compliance with it. If you touch and she likes it, I will touch more, and in more intimate ways.

I feel like a seducer who is good at teaching could talk through this stuff at a pretty digestible level.

Then again, maybe not many seducers want to put themselves out there in that way, in a program like that, even if it would make good money. You can make it for me, though! I swear I won't share it with anyone!

I love the idea of breaking down a skill well, and understanding it, and finding simple ways to teach it to beginners, that gets them to truly grow. I have done this for other skills besides seduction, like various sports and other activities. There has got to be some way in seduction, too. I'm not sure what it is. When I figure it out, I'll let the world know. I love the idea of teaching, in the way that there are simple ways to get a beginner good at something fast. Not like, "here's a million vague things I learned about seduction here do them all and you'll be good". But rather, 2-4 discrete, powerful "linchpin" things that bring someone's ability from non-existent to decent (or even good?) fast. I bet there is a way to do it. I want to figure out that way.

 

[bobbyb112]

I've been thinking about something I've been noticing lately.

Sometimes, on dates, or with girls I'm already seeing, I will tease more and basically make fun of what she says more. Whereas other times, I will try to be a good conversationalist, and have good conversations. The first way seems to work more. As in, when I do that, the girl is more likely to want to have sex, and/or meet up again. If this pattern is true, then that is good. Apparently teasing and making fun of her works.

The problem is, this way feels "combative" to me. It feels like I am making fun of someone for no reason, and it puts me in a mindset of "I'm not having fun and don't want to be here but I will anyway". Meaning, it feels like I am being combative, and it takes effort. I'm not a combative individual. Another way to describe it is "prickly". If I am "prickly", I tease her, make fun of her, then better things seem to happen. Again, though, this way takes energy, and moreover puts me in the mindset of not enjoying myself.

The alternative is, I want to be a good conversationalist, and be interested in what she has to say and why she likes it. I try to be genuinely interested in what she has to say. This feels good in a way, because I like the idea of being genuinely interested in people. And I like conversations. So it gives me energy to do this.

The problem there is, maybe she doesn't feel sufficiently challenged, and then when I go to talk about sexual things, or otherwise bring it in a sexual direction, she isn't feeling that, and it doesn't happen. I think it's because she didn't feel sufficiently challenged, and so feels like I'm a nice guy, and therefore not sexually attracted. Moreover, she can also seem sort of surprised when I move things towards sexual topics, or touch more, or invite her home, because it feels like a switch in personalities, if I was being interested and nice guy ish, and then switch to trying to be sexual. I don't like the feeling of her feeling like she was bait-and-switched somehow. And also, I don't like the idea that she might have thought I was being nice just to get in her pants or something. I wasn't, I just genuinely am interested in people. But I don't like feeling of her feeling like I misled her. So that is also not a good feeling. Worst of all, it doesn't seem to work, to seduce.

So, do I be a challenging, prickly jerk, and get laid (more and more), or be an interested, genuine person, and not get laid?

I guess I am just discovering for myself the classic nice-guy-to-jerk transition. When you are a jerk, when you bust on the girl and make fun of her, she sleeps with you more. And this actually is better than nice-guy. Because you get laid more! The problem I am having is that it feels TOO combative, which is tiring. When I am too combative, then she does it back to me, and I feel the need to do it back. It is like a flame war. I don't like getting combativeness from a girl. So then I back off, and don't give combativeness. But then she gets unattracted. So I add more!

From reading articles, the trap Chase and others see, is when a guy moves from nice guy to jerk, his results improve. So he does more of it. He becomes an uber jerk. Jerk all the time. Everyone is a target for his ridicule, to make fun of. The problem then is blowback. People feel miffed. If they stick around, they give combativeness back. And he tries to do even MORE, because adding more is what worked for him before. Not ideal.

What is the solution? I suppose it is to have some, but not too much. You do have to challenge the girl. You have to keep her on her toes. You don't want her getting comfortable. But you don't want to do so much that she feels the need to get combative back. That is not ideal. Moreover, it can feel like overkill.

How can I operationalize this? How much teasing, making fun, busting on her is enough, and how can I make the transition to "genuine man" as quickly and seamlessly as possible? What should I be thinking about in my own mind, to determine in the moment whether I need to increase attraction (tease, bust on her) vs increasing or similarity/comfort (interest)? Maybe, if it feels platonic, then tease her. Including right in the beginning. Then, if it feels like she is shutting down or getting tired of it, then switch to similarity tech (deep diving, relating). And so on, throughout the whole interaction.

This is the classic question of calibration. How do I get better at calibrating? More experience in the field, of course. No two ways about it.

Also, feeling more sensual/sexual. Because, this will guide your decisions. Because you will be keeping your eye on the prise, and seeing what the interaction needs to go in a more sexual direction. As opposed to, like last night, or whenever I am feeling "interested" in a person, it feels good from a social standpoint, but it doesn't feel sensual/sexual. I genuinely enjoy getting to know someone, on a social level, being a conversationalist. That is fun. But it is not the goal of a seduction. Seduction is sensual/sexual. On the last date, the conversation was good, in a social way. It just didn't have the sensual energy. Because I wasn't feeling it in my own body. So I brought the interaction in a social direction, rather than sensual.

The problem with having "social" energy in an interaction is, that is when it feels platonic/nice-guy ish. Even if you have good conversation, if it is social energy (I want to find a better word for it than that, but social is the best I can come up with so far). She feels like you are trying to make a friend. Versus with sensual/sexual energy, she feels like you are trying to find a lover. Which you want.

I talk about feeling the social vs sensual energy in your body, because if you are feeling it, it can guide your actions accordingly. The actions follow from the energy. Moreover, it makes your sensual actions consistent with your energy/vibe. So when you go to touch her, it feels congruent, rather than incongruent. The actions and your energy/vibe feel the same. Versus if you try to go for sensual actions (touch, sexual topics, pull) with social energy, then it feels incongruent. So that is why you want to feel the sensual energy. Moreover, when you feel the sensual energy, it tells your brain to do sensual things, rather than social.

Another way to say this is, if you want to seduce, feel horny. Common sense, right? Just feel horny, then your actions will follow. You'll do horny things. Horny/sensual/sexual, I'm using these words interchangeably. Next question, how do you feel horny/ sensual/ sexual? It's not like I want to be sitting there with a boner, at the bar. Is that what we mean? Hopefully not. But what is feeling sensual? It is a big of a down-shift in vibe, in yourself. You are calm. Chill. Relaxed. Almost in a dreamlike state.

This reminds me of Chase's article about picturing the conquest, and basically just putting yourself in a nearly-aroused state all the time, walking through your daily life. Although it seemed powerful at the time, as a follow up, he said that this is basically just very polarizing, because you are screening for girls that are very close to DTF. It is highly sexual, so girls that are already there will like it. But most won't. So, for most girls, who are not DTF the moment you meet them, you have to meet them where they are, in terms of socialness. Such as breaking them out of their autopilot, on a cold approach. And then, say, bringing them through a date that establishes attraction, builds comfort, builds arousal, then pull.

I think I am just playing around with the attraction and comfort pieces, and seeing how much of either I need. And, again, being the combative jerk, vs genuine man.

On one of the dates earlier this week, I felt very relaxed, and therefore in the moment, and the game "slowed down", and I was seeing things happen in real time. This is good. I need to do more of this. Being relaxed helps you slow down. However, I've been called "calm" by many, many people. People at work, friends, girls. Many have said "calm". I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not. Does that mean "not enough of a challenge", or "I like it because it is a calm oasis who is unflappable". I'm not sure. Moreover, you don't want "calm" to mean "passive".

Another part of all of this is slowing down how fast I talk. Sometimes it gets fast. Or, you ask a question in a kneejerk way, rather than slow. Asking questions in a kneejerk way, fast and abrupt, are not good, even if the question is good. Slowing down the pace of your speaking can be good.

A lot of things I'm thinking about right now. Busting on her and being a jerk, vs genuine man. Turning it sensual/seductive vs social. How to feel in my body, in a date.

Maybe the silver bullet in all of this is "have fun". "Make it fun". The goal should be fun. Just do that. Could be good advice. What would be fun?

---

Another question is, should I just move way faster, on these dates, in terms of what we talk about, and moving things forward in my process? For example, with one girl who I could tell was pretty DTF before the date, I went pretty fast on the date, meaning went from talking about things, to having her sit next to me and touch, to invite home. It all took not too long, basically because I didn't make the "comfort" section super long. Just some stuff, then have her come sit next to me. Touch. I forget if or what sexual topics we talked about. But did that for a bit. Then invited her back. I knew she could say yes, basically because she made it rather clear before meeting up that she was pretty DTF. Maybe having this in my head gave me permission to move faster, because I assumed she would say yes regardless. Maybe that is a good mindset to go into any date. Assume she will say yes to the invite home, and move fast accordingly.

I don't know if it will always go that way, but might as well try it. With these girls from the apps, shouldn't I just assume that she is DTF regardless? Maybe she isn't, but I might as well assume she is. An issue is, if you don't move fast, or don't assume she is DTF, then it can cause you to move too slow (too much deep diving, not getting to sexual topics and touch fast enough), which CAUSES her to put the brakes on. Whereas if you just moved fast, through those sections, then she would be confirmed in her attraction for you, and be down to go home with you. Maybe I will do this. Try to get through the connection/comfort stage faster, and move onto sexual topics and touch and getting close faster.

I like thinking about it as "getting what I need" in each section. Did I get what I need? Get what you need, and move on. What do I need, though? That is the question, isn't it? But I do think I could go through comfort section faster. I don't need ALL those questions.

I like to think that I could convert many or most of girls that come out into sex. Gotta get my process down!

The feeling on a date maybe could be challenging/teasing in the beginning (before you sit down). This established attraction. Then sitting down and deep diving. This is comfort. Then sexual topics, and increasing touch. This, I'm going to call "sex topics" section. Then she downshifts/decides. You invite home and go. Escalation. Done.

So you purposefully challenge/ tease/ make fun of her in the first section. This is important, because it establishes attraction. I like the word "establish" attraction. You could say "build" attraction, but some say that "attraction either is there or it isn't". Okay, well then here, you "establish" that existent or non-existent attraction, for further use in the rest of the seduction. So I like the word "establish".

This is where you are joking, making fun of her. So she KNOWS YOU ARE NOT A NICE GUY. She needs to know this. You aren't a nice guy. You are establishing that up front. You will not be "nice" on this date. This establishes your VALUE, because she is attracted to you. A guy she is attracted to is valuable to her. So you have established your romantic value.

Then, you sit down. Here, you switch into "genuine" and getting to know her and building a connection. You are showing that even though you are romantically valuable, you are ATTAINABLE. You are interested in her as a person. She's not just a girl to make fun of. Moreover, she is working for your approval, by telling you these things. She is working to impress a guy she feels is romantically valuable.

Then, you go into sex topics. This gets the idea of sex on the table. While doing this, you get closer and closer. This gets your comfortable with the idea of you have sex together, while physically getting close, which also gets closer to sex.

Then the conversation dies down. And you pull.

---

I need to make my voice more purring. That is sensual, but not in a too-horny way. It is sensual, but not in a too-horny way. Drill this into my head. This is how you make your conversation sound sensual/sexual, as opposed to social. Moreover, I love when girls do it. So they probably love why I do it, too!

One problem with this is that it is hard to hear in a loud bar. So I'm not sure what to do about that. I can see why nightclub game can consist of so much physical escalation. It's hard to hear! Or, you isolate her to a place that is quieter so you can talk.

Another lesson is, never go on a date on Friday or Saturday night. Maybe not never. But those are the busy nights, when there are a ton of people, they play the music loud, and it is impossible to get a seat, and you can't hear anything. Not great. Of course, some of my best dates have been on those nights. But many not so good ones have been on those nights, for those reasons. They are just too crowded/ busy/ loud at the bars or lounges for it to be good. Plus, she has a built-in excuse of like "I have fun things I need to go do after our drink, because it's Friday!". Not great. Maybe I will make a no-Friday-nor-Saturday date rule from now on.

Purring voice.

 

[bobbyb112]

I had a minor epiphany.

I was going for a walk and ruminating about how to add a baseline sensual vibe to everything I said and did. How to do so? Well, I came up with the answer. It's something that all good seducers do and use, you can observe it in any video/audio of good seducers. It's a thing they do with their face, which makes everything they say and do sensual.

You see, the face is the remote control for your vibe. Changing your face changes the mindset you are in. And you can do this for sensuality, too. Sensuality, and this thing they do, is unique to seducers, meaning all good seducers do it, and none don't. The best part is, you can implement this in 5 seconds. Play around with it for 60 seconds. And instantly, you will recognize it's true power, and the amazing effects it can have on your game, and success you have with women.

It is a tone I call the "raunchy" tone. At first I called it the "sensual" tone. But raunchy has a more aggressive, dirty vibe. And girls want to have fast sex with aggressive, dirty men. Hence, "raunchy" is what I call it.

Basically, you pull your upper lip/mustache area upwards, towards your nose. This makes you smile some. And also gives your voice a purring sound. Overall, it adds an energy to your voice that is sensual, quiet, intimate, and with high energy. It also forces you to talk slowly, which is good, because slowness is more powerful and sensual. It makes you feel more sensual, which gives you a feeling, which you then transfer to her, both consciously through what you say, and subconsciously through mirror neurons. It is lowkey, yet still with buzzing energy, and feels raunchy, even.

You can see and hear basically all good seducers doing this. In video clips, and audio. I may give some specific examples later.

I realized that I did this on a date a few weeks ago that went particularly well. The girl was DTF, and I could tell that beforehand, so I acted lowkey, sensual, assuming that she would say yes when I asked her to come home. But I did this, had just a slight smile, and pulled my upper lip/mustache area upwards towards my nose. This gave me an intimate, purring voice, which just feels sexy and sensual.

Thinking back, two girls I met recently, who were both experienced, both did this themselves. And it gave them lowkey, sexy, sensual voices, which put sex in my mind. You can learn a lot from girls. If a girl comes across as sexy, sensual, or good at deep diving, or engaging with others, you can learn from that. Learn from sensual women how to be sensual. They know. Take whatever you can from girls that you are meeting, in terms of mannerisms and the way they speak, if they do something well.

I also, without realizing it, used this tonality and facial expression, about 10 days ago, on a date that ended up with the girl in my bed. I didn't realize that was what I was doing. Until now. Now I realize what I was doing, and that it was good, and it worked. Now I can consciously do this all the time, until it is my default, and I can do this all the time to create a sensual, sexy vibe in myself, and transfer that feeling to girls.

This baseline sexy/sensual vibe is THE vibe to use for seduction. There are all sorts of other things that are good to do with your voice. Like deepness, resonance, neutrality (no pressure), authority, warmness, timbre, tambre, purring, etc. There are a ton of dimensions for your voice to consider. But the single one that is most important for seduction, the baseline underlying thing, is this sexy/sensual voice.

Every single good seducer I've seen in the interviews does this. Most people who aren't good with girls, don't.

I'm glad I realized what I was doing that was working. A few weeks ago, in these journals, I called it the slight smirk with the right side of my mouth. But the thing that was working, was the upper lip/mustache being pulled upwards towards the nose, which was happening, but I didn't realize it. That is the real reason why it was working.

What's good about doing this, is that it is low-effort. Meaning, you can do this, and gives you a powerfully sensual/sexy vibe, without too much effort. That makes this a "linchpin" thing, where you do a small action, with a small amount of effort, but it has a big cascading effect on your outputs and results. It causes everything else to work, like the tactics and techniques like deep diving, teasing, etc. It all comes together and works, when you do this lip thing.

What's good is, it gives you a smile, and you look an feel happy, and therefore communicate happy. But it not a "big goofy" smile, where you look tryhard, over the top, and overly friendly. It makes you happy, but in a sensual, sexy way. Rather than happy in a big and goofy (and platonic) way.

I like how it is subtle, too. In that, it makes you want to lean in, and get close. Which is why it is good for seduction. Being close is good. This makes everything you do sexy and sensual. Which makes your move into sex topics much more natural and expected. Because it is congruent with your vibe.

All this is to say, I will be using and doing this, consciously, in my next interactions. It is the thing. It is the vibe. The vibe is the most important. Actions follow from there.

 

[bobbyb112]

I've been mulling something over.

I re-read Chase's article "Why I Quit Doing Friends with Benefits". A lot of it boiled down to, there's a reason why you didn't want to make any of the girls your girlfriend, and seeing them on a casual basis makes you lazy to not go out and improve your seduction skills more, to be able to get the kind of girls you want for girlfriends.

I also re-read his article "How Long Do Most Guys Keep at Pickup?". I like this article as a big-picture where do you want to go type post. I like looking at it, and charting my "progress" in the chart. I like the idea of measuring myself, and my ability in something, so I enjoy comparing my progress to his stages. Examining the article, you could say I achieved the "get a girlfriend" stage, since last year a girl I was seeing very much wanted to be my girlfriend. I think we even were BF-GF for like a week, before we broke it off. It's not much, but hey, I guess I can say I had a girlfriend, now.

Note that, a lot of my "game" is via apps, so maybe I don't even count in this article, because he is talking about cold approach rather than app stuff. But oh well, I'm going to write about it some more!

Next on there is "get a rotation". This is interesting, because you could say I'm almost at a "rotation" right now. There are a few girls that are almost in my "rotation", seeing them at the same time. If a rotation is 360 degrees, then I'd say I'm at 180. Maybe 270. You could almost say it's rotating. Close.

But even here, at my 270 degree rotation, I can see the potential downsides. First, it makes me lazy to go out and meet new girls. If I am expecting to see one of the girls sometime soon, it makes me less likely to want to go out on a date with a new girl. Which would be fine, however, I don't want to make any of these girls a girlfriend. And, I can see the improvement in seduction results. And so, I want to keep meeting girls, to improve my ability, and start landing the kind of girls I want. So those two forces fight in my gut.

Next on the progression is "regular abundance". Which he says is "where they truly internally feel like ‘women are everywhere, and are not hard to get’". I can see this on the horizon. It makes sense, where if you close enough girls, often enough, with enough consistency, you don't feel like they are "hard to get". It is pretty normal, in fact. Just do the things needed, and you'll get one. I have been with however many girls so far, but it always feels like a bit of a crapshoot. Like, yes, if I keep going I will get laid again. But, not in a super consistent way. So, getting consistent is probably what allows you to get to regular abundance.

The next level is regular ONS/SDL (1+ per month). Then, absolute abundance, where you are regularly banging girlfriend-quality girls, and they are abundant.

I like reading this article, because it shows how there are levels, and I have so much more to unlock. Moreover, I want to let these current "FWB's" attrit out, and then just stick with ONS-or-girlfriend, as Chase says, in order to keep my motivation up, and get better at seducing.

---

I looked at the articles Top 7 Easiest Ways to Get Laid & Raise Your Notch Count, How to Have Sex with Brazilian Women, and How to Have Sex with Thai Girls. Dang, this article got my thought running.

I didn't realize some of these channels could be so fruitful for getting lays. For example, bartender. I thought they would be busy making drinks. Then again, I guess it needs to be at a popular, cool, party venue, with lots of young attractive girls. Is this worth my time to pursue? Just start bartending, and find a way to work at a popular place, and find guys there who are getting lays, and learn from them? It is an idea. Ultimately, I don't think I will do this. But if it worked, to get lays, that is pretty compelling.

Intructor job is interesting. I have a few skills that I could instruct in. You probably need to choose the right location to make this work. For example, you can't be teaching yoga to retirees, to make that work. I wonder what a great setup for this would be. And how you an parlay it into a lot of lays.

Third-world pickup. This is rather eye-opening. Could you really go to Phillipines, Thailand, Brazil, or Eastern Europe, and bang mucho hotties? Dang, that makes me want to quite my job, and travel the world, and bang third-world girls. What could be better? Frankly not a bad idea. At the very least, maybe I should go on a vacation trip, to one of these places, to get a lay of the land, and see how the girls are. I also skimmed through the article How and Where to Move Overseas as a Single Man. That article makes most places seem pretty great as far as girls! Moreover, anytime you go away from your home country, you get a foreigner boost. That could be pretty fun.

It's kind of funny when you think about it from a life experiences standpoint. Would you rather 1. progress one year in your job/career 2. bang 30 Philippine girls a month for 3 months, which would you choose? The choice is up to you. Job/career stuff is plenty enriching. But banging 30 girls in a month? That seems like the better story. Or life experience. You can always go back to the ole' grind when you come back. You don't want to save sex for old age, though.

That feels like the easy button. Go to one of these third-world countries, and your sex life improves dramatically. Yes, it will require work and hustle to make it all happen. But still, what better use of time is there? I don't know. The flip side is "quality". Quality of your skill, particularly in your home country. For example, approach in your home country, and if you can get to absolute abundance and consistently bang girlfriend-quality girls there, then you probably won't feel the need to go sleep with a ton of girls in another country. Although, it still does sound like a blast. That idea of traveling the world for a year is looking better and better, isn't it?

I still could probably stand for a vacation, though. I haven't traveled to another country in a bit, so I am due.

Those articles really show, too, how there are so many things to do in life. You can go to Phillippines and figure out to have sex with 50 girls in one month. You can become a bartender at a popular club and bang girls consistently from there. So much to do.

The article, as the title indicates, was about getting your notch count up, though. It's interesting, as far as what you hold as the idea. Is notch count your goal, or being able to get a new girlfriend-quality girlfriend in 2 weeks the goal? Chase has said the latter is his favorite goal as far as seduction. If this was my goal, what would I do? Go do daygame every waking moment I could until I was consistently sleeping with GF quality girls? I mean, yeah. Or, cut your teeth somewhere. Nightgame is another option. But cold approach, at night or day, seems to be the best options. Go approach. Duh. And yet. Going and banging 30 Thai girls still has a certain ring to it.