Journal

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date yesterday.

We met at the bar. It was too busy so we went next door. Sat and talked. Body language wise, she sat turned towards me, which is good. But her arms were folded across her body the whole time, which wasn't good. We talked about a bunch of stuff, mostly which felt platonic. I teased at various points, although it didn't seem to "land". After about an hour I invited her back for wine, but she said she had to be up early. I said I had to go 10 minutes later and we paid and left.

One thing that I worry about on these sort of dates is, I might not be "on my game" to make it happen with her. That is, I'm not ready to hold frame, be into her, tease hard, ask for compliance and investment, create the bubble, etc. Why would I not be ready for it? First, it could be that don't believe that she is pullable, or that I won't be attracted, leading to me not giving enough, leading to her auto-rejecting. I wonder if the first step in pulling off a seduction is believing that it is possible, and that you want to. Sometimes, I go to dates after work, and I'm sort of tired and my head is full of work stuff. Then I don't pay enough attention to the seduction aspect, and instead have a platonic friendly conversation, and she isn't about it. On that note, if the conversation is too good, we don't end up having sex. That is another heuristic. The conversation should be subcontext laden, rather than "good and friendly". Make it sub-context-laden.

I guess these dates after work when I am tired and not particularly in the mood to pull are alright. They are good practice, if nothing else. They are socializing, which is generally good. Otherwise I would just sit at home and work more. At the same time, maybe I should take some time beforehand to get in a seductive, horny state of mind. So I can be mentally prepared to take the steps needed to seduce. My energy was a bit off, too, because I didn't sleep well last night. No excuse, but being well rested helps be on the ball, too. Maybe I could walk around the block a few times before the date, to get into the seduction state of mind, to transition from working, and be ready to seduce on the date. What is a good routine I can do before the date, to make sure I am in the right state of mind?

Another element, with this girl, she was from the apps. On the apps, I generally have 1 of 2 approaches for messaging. One is a one-shot text, saying hey you're cute let's get a drink sometime. This is short and to the point. It's not bad, but of the girls that respond to that, you tend to get some that seem really just "social" and willing to get a drink, but haven't bought into you that much, or the fact that you might want something "casual". My other sequence of texting involves saying she is sexy, and saying that I don't want anything serious, and would you like to get a drink. Also some more qualifying, about things she does for fun. I like this sequence better at the moment, because if the girl texts back and forth and hears multiple times that you aren't looking for something serious, then she is more likely down with the idea that you'll invite her back at the end of the date.

This is the element of "filtering", where you're simply screening more for girls that DTF, or close to DTF, to go out with. It is useful to filter in this way, to improve your date-to-lay rate. On these dates, I do them for a combination of 1. practicing socializing and 2. getting laid. I suppose if I screen even harder for DTF and near-DTF girls, then I can boost my lay rate. At the same time, I do want to practice socializing, in the sense that this is currently my only source of dates at the moment. So those are the two goals or objectives or why I go on these types of dates.

I guess one part of the trouble is, holding frame and acting like you want to have sex with a girl requires some effort. What happens is, she will ask a question, and I know I should hold frame in some sort of strong way, but I also don't care enough about sleeping with her to hold frame and keep the conversation tense. So I just go with friendly conversation, it turns friendly, and she is unattracted. Hmm. I guess recognizing it is a good first step. I guess the next step you could do is decide that you are going to hold frame and seduce in your various ways, and just do it. It's like focusing while playing soccer to play well. If you're tired, it's harder to focus, and you are more liable to taking plays off, or just not putting in the little extra effort needed to make a good play. In seduction, same thing.

Now, you can improve your game and fundamentals, such that you can do better even when you are tired. That is indeed a worth goal. How can I unlock all of my charisma, all the time. Maybe smile more. Or not be tired. Maybe take a nap in the afternoon, to be ready for weekday nighttime dates. Also, how can I socialize, while working a pretty busy schedule with work? Maybe at work, lol. Or walking around outside, between the day at work. Just approach girls then, to get the ball rolling. Keep the social muscles up. This is a weird question but, what is the end goal of socializing?

On the plus side, I think that I did feel better as far as holding frame overall, in certain ways. Might slight smirk on the right side of my mouth seems to be good, for talking slower, being in control, thinking of things in the moment. While talking with this girl tonight, I felt remarkably free in my ability to listen to her. Like open, listening, non-judgemental, in the moment. It felt interesting. The slight smirk on the right side of my mouth seems to be helpful for listening, being quick, and overall holding frame. At work, too, it seemed to help during some conversations to "just know the right thing to say." I will have to keep doing this, and paying attention to how and when it works. Maybe this is the beginning of being smooth. Being able to say the right thing at the right time, on the tip of the tongue, all the time. I will keep practicing it.

Taking a step back, I feel like I have made meaningful progress over the last, say, month or so. I have gone on a lot of dates and figured some new things out. I'm learning each time I go out, although frankly I'd like to learn faster, lol. But the journey continues, and it is indeed improving. If I can talk to more people, through work, approaching on the street, on dates I set up, in other situations, I can really master this stuff. Or at least get better and better at it. And to get better as fast as possible.

For this date, the girl seemed to be closed-off. Maybe this is auto-rejection. Chase talks about this a good bit. Balancing attainability with value. What is value, though? No idea. Just tell me some tactic to do, I'll figure the theory later, lol. I know, given all that I've been doing recently, that I can get better and better at this socializing and dating stuff. For example, I've done so many dates, talked about so many of the same things with girls, that it is starting to get second-nature. I don't know if that's good or not. It certainly makes for more predictable conversation. Sometimes I feel like I am years behind most people socially. Yes, there are common topics that people like talking about. That's not a surprise. I guess my point is, if I can make everything about socializing, including the process of turning attractive women into lovers, then that will make for a pretty fun life. How can I accelerate this process, by talking to more people? Talk, talk, talk. Do more of it. That is the goal.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date yesterday.

This was from the apps. She was traveling in the US, and staying at her brother's house, and seeing the city. We met up for a drink. Did the first venue. Went to a second. Walked around a bit. I tried to pull a number of times, but she said no. I left eventually.

The other day Chase had a X post about how girls would be polite if they didn't like you, playful/flirtatious and compliant if they did, and cold/closed off they did but felt they couldn't get what they wanted so into auto rejection. This girl was at times the second, which is good.

I did something consciously different, which I felt helped. I had focused eye contact, strong eye contact. In the past, I have gotten sort of weak eye contact, and not laser beam focused. Clearly the latter is more powerful and attractive. I did this this time, and I felt that it built a stronger vibe and connection, all else being equal. I will do this going forward. I call it "eagle eyes". It is just good, strong eye contact.

I sometimes don't know how to lead the interaction forward. That is, after a while, I run out of things to say or do, then we're just sitting there. Then she asks a question, I'm like, naw, and she's like, why aren't you answering my questions. I'm like, I'm out of energy, it's boring, I'm bored, you're boring me, can I leave. I wonder if there is a remedy to this. Self-amusement? Not looking at her? I can't just be focused on her the whole time. Maybe that is good, though. If I take the focus off her for a bit, then it let's the pressure off for both of us to come up with things to say. Not that I like "dead air". But sometimes I'm out of schtick. I'm just there, wanting to look at the wall. Let me be in peace.

All the normal stuff is what I need to work on. Attraction tech. This time, I teased a bit at the beginning, ribbing her about stuff she said. That seemed good, frankly. She was rather compliant and flirtatious and playful following that for a while. We deep dived and built a connection, asking about things she liked and her telling about it. That was frankly good. It went pretty well after that. So that was good attraction tech. Nice.

After attraction tech it was connection tech. Connection stuff is deep diving. You need it to have the undertone that she is attracted to you, which is why you do attraction tech before connection. Anyway, we did this a bit. That was good.

Next, I needed to transition into sexual topic tech. This is still where I need work. Frankly, I need to be more explicit about it. Talking about sex, that is. Bringing it up. Sexual vibe is needed, too. But I guess, if I have a sexual vibe, and bring it up, and talk about something sex related, but she doesn't bite on it or seem to be affected by it, does that count? Did it land? I need to work on this, identifying when it works, why it works, how to make it work, etc. So the sexualization section is one I need some tech for.

After sexualization is the section when she is quiet, making her decision. This moment sort of came up, although I can't be sure. We were sitting in the second venue, nearing the end of our drinks, and she was staring in the distance. Unfortunately, I started talking with banter again from something we had talked about before. She was like "oh, I was staring in the distance thinking about something, but I don't remember what". If there was a place when she was making her decision, this was probably it. I interrupted her decision-making, which isn't good. I shall look out for that, and avoid it in the future.

I want to now look at the date using this article as my guide:
https://www.girlschase.com/article/trajectory-successful-date. And this is my other favorite: https://www.girlschase.com/content/secrets-getting-girls-time-your-moves.

This is probably my single favorite article from Chase on the whole website.

His model of a date, includes greetings/formalities, small talk to initiate conversation, meaningful connection to further bonding, increasing closeness/touch on high points, the arrival of sexual topics, humor, and vibe, an increase in sexual factors, closeness, and touch, alongside a decrease in meaningful verbal communication, movement to somewhere private, where the escalation to intimacy begins.

I like this overall. In the past, my problem has been, lets say you get to the meaningful connection to further bonding, then the next step is increasing closeness/touch on high points, then the arrival of sexual topics, humor, and vibe. My challenge has been transitioning from meaningful connection to more touch and sexual vibe. In the last week or so, I have diagnosed it as needing more attraction stuff, like teasing and flirting in the beginning, before getting into connection. I'm curious why this date model doesn't have attraction in there somewhere. Is that because you would have flirted/teased when you got the number, before the date? If that is the case, then maybe I don't need to tease/flirt like I had been doing. It seemed to work today, the flirt and teasing. Still, though, I then had trouble turning it more sexual. It's like, how you get close with her, without outright leaning into her space? I guess I could do that. It just seems like you're overinvesting. I mean, if that is not too much investment, and it's a case of give a little to get a lot, then maybe it is worth it.

I tend to try to sit up straight, and go into her sometimes, but also pull her into me, and touch her more, to get the sexual vibe going. At least that's what I've been trying lately. What is the feeling of having the sexual vibe, or sexual intent, or whatever you want to call it? I think I do want to lean into her more, with my head/face getting close, because this rather clearly signals intent, and creates sexual tension. This creates the feeling, then perhaps the verbals will come more natural. If you create the vibe, the verbals will take care of themselves. Creating the vibe comes from the body language, which, I am hypothesizing, comes from leaning your head close into hers. That is sort of my hypothesis. It is a simple body language thing. You lean your head into something that you like. If she moves away, then you can back off, and re-group.

Another point of this is, I sort of need to show more interest. That is, sexy guys show interest, not in a needy way, but in a this is what I want and I'm not ashamed of it way. I need to perhaps do this more, because otherwise no sexual vibe gets created, and later when I go to pull, it feels out of left field. I think just getting close overall is a decent way, at this stage, so turn up the sexual vibe.

I remember Alek did an article discussing this. He said that an easy way to transition closer to the girl is to go to a second venue, and when you sit down there, sit close. I can see the usefulness of this, as you use the transition to make that move. What if you are just at the first place, and you just move closer to her on the bench or whatever? Even better would be to have her come to you, which you can do a little bit. I often say "come close so I can hear you". Sometimes they come close enough, sometimes not. What i can do is come in even closer, to turn up the sexual tension and vibe. I like the idea of doing your whole process at one venue, as opposed to two. Two is just too much. If she doesn't want it after one, then how is two going to change things? That's what I say.

Maybe I could do hybrid. Tease at the beginning, then get into connection and the rest. That way you establish a little bit of attraction, in case it wasn't there already. Then do the rest. Touch on high points. Move closer. Turn up the sexual tension by getting close after building a connection. Getting less verbal. She decides. You pull.

I need to re-read both those articles again like 20 times. Very good.

I don't love on dates, when I go for the pull, they say no. I can stay there and keep going, but I really usually don't have too much to say or go on. I'm fine to stare at the wall, but if she wants to keep talking, I'm sort of out of things to talk about. What do you do? Is there anything to do after a girl says no to the pull? As far as preparing for the pull, I think getting physically close is important. Again, my successful dates in the past have involved very close physical touch, prior to pulling. Well, some more than others. But the more "iffy" ones, as in she wasn't DTF beforehand, this is what happened. Thus, do it again. What this will do, basically, is avoid the situation, when the vibe is friendly, but you know that based on time you should pull. You go for it, and she says no. Boo. So, get close, turn it sexual, and the pull will make sense. At the very least, I don't want her to not be expecting a pull attempt. I want her to feel the sexual vibe. I want her to feel the sexy. She might not be down for the sexy, but at least she will feel it. I need to turn up the sexual vibe before going for the pull. If I get physically close and she moves away, then so be it. But I won't get to a pull timing-wise without having shown sexual intent through my verbals and/or physical proximity and touch. It is important.

As far as the other thing I'm working on, attraction in the beginning via teasing or flirting, Chase says you don't want to overdo this. Guys will, he says, overgame by doing too much teasing and flirting later on, after you got attraction. I guess, maybe I wasn't doing enough of this before, and so I should add a little bit, but not too much? maybe that is where I'm at. I have to add some in, but make sure not to overdo it, because everything can be overdone. Maybe, too, I could overdo it for a little bit, to get a feel for what is too much, and then dial it back. For example, the girl last year who I teased a ton, got together with, but she didn't see me as a serious possibility for something more with because she felt I was a "jerk". On the date in this post, I had like 4 or 5 teases in a row at the beginning, because I was working on it and wanted to get a feel for it. Maybe that was one or two too many, or maybe even one or two too few. Not sure. Attraction tech is sort of something I have been add in and haven't done before, so it is important to play around with.

Sexualization tech is what I'm also going to work on. Namely, getting physically close to her, and even leaning in. Heck, make it uncomfortable. If she leaves, that's fine. If she moves away, I guess wash and repeat, although your chances of success later may or may not be high. Anyway, do it, because it needs to be done.

So attraction tech via teasing in the beginning, let's say 2 or 3 teases, just enough so she feels it. Then after the connection stuff, increasing touch and getting physically closer including leaning in with my head. Those are the two things I'm working on. While I'm at it, I could probably work on small talk in the beginning. I'm usually coming from the workday, so my chit-chat game is kind of rusty. I might try to improve that, for whatever it is worth. Might as well. It needn't be hard, but I haven't examined it a lot.

I should really read those two articles 10 times a day. Just try to execute those as much as possible. Those are really the ones that speak most to my soul when it comes to seduction, in a practical way.

I'm thinking back to a date I had in January. On that one, I indeed got quite close to the girl. Like moving myself to get in close, put my arm around her, got physically close with my body. She ended up coming home, and we got naked together on the bed, but no sex. But, this highlighted a time when I just went for it as far as "getting close", and it led to good things happening. It upped the vibe, which was undeniably sexual. We didn't end up having sex, which doesn't make for a good ending of the story. But getting this girl back, was good, as it shows something that worked.

I guess my hesitancy about "getting close" as of late has been that I don't want to seem tryhard by moving myself close to her. Either I want to stay away, and not risk rejection, or have her come close, which she doesn't want to do because of risking rejection. One of you has to make that move, and as the guy, you might as well do it. The guy leads. Simple as.

But this also explains why many of my dates have felt platonic somewhat recently. I have been missing the escalation window to move from connection to closeness, and therefore sexual topics, and then it turns into a platonic date. Thus, this "getting close" stage and escalation window is one that I have to hit.

Thinking back, there was another seduction in October where I leaned in close, upping the sexual tension, and we ended up together. So that is another example of leaning in to create sexual tension work. Interesting. Seems like the right move. I have sort of been relying on just verbal stuff, or trying to make just verbal work. It can work, but yo probably need more clearly sexual stuff, like Alek's sex talk, to make this work. I need to add the non-verbal piece in more, the leaning in and getting close, to create that sexual tension. That is what I need right now.

 

[bobbyb112]

On went on a date last night.

We met up for drinks. Had a drink. I teased. I got close. She was playing with her hair. I invited her back. She said no. I said okay. We sat silently. I left.

Her body language was such that she didn't really turn to me at all. Like, she was facing one way, and wouldn't even look at my. What the heck. Is she in auto rejection? She was pulling at her hair. I can't tell if this is a sign of interest, or just something she does. Anyway, I went to pull, she said no. I'm out of ideas. She is not interesting. Therefore, I leave.

I did tease and stuff. That was good. It landed, in that she laughed. I was teasing. She wasn't very interesting though. She didn't really do anything fun. She might enjoy her job. Another question, when you touch her, and she doesn't touch back, is that bad? It doesn't feel very inviting, frankly. It's like, if she is just going to be a stone, and no look at me, and not say anything, I guess this is over? I can think of no other way to go with it.

Also, in our texting, I had said that I didn't want anything serious, etc. Does this mean she was expecting something different? I don't know. I'm not sure if bailing on this date as a good idea or not. It had been around 40 mins. We sent through our stuff. I maybe could have deep dived better. Switched tonalities between playful, genuine, and sexual better. Probably took deep breaths, and been more present. That is something I want to do. Meditate for 5 minutes before going out on a date. It feels like I am more present when I do.

On the flip side, this girl might have just been a more quiet girl. She did data science, so worked with numbers and all that. Those girls, and guys, often aren't the "talkative" type. So maybe that was part of it. That could've been part of it. On the one hand, I don't have time to hang around on a date that is going nowhere. On the other hand, staying in the saddle, and burning it to the ground, as it were, could be useful. I'm not sure.

I leaned in indeed. I got close. Problem is, she didn't lean back. More just looked away. I'm glad I did it, because I showed my intent. It increased pressure. Again, I'm glad I did it, because she could probably feel it. It wasn't so good, that she wasn't having it. But hey, I did what I came to do. I leaned in close, and increased pressure.

I'm not sure if I need to increase attraction, or increase connection, or add a sexier vibe, or what. It felt too transactional. Too many dates feel too transactional. Just in the sense, I would love to get genuine attraction, connection, sexual tension, all that. It is fun. I enjoy it. I don't believe you need a lot of time to do it. But you do need to do things in certain ways that actually build those things.

Some more things. I need to talk slower. And have something besides a playful tone. The playful tone is good. But you have to switch between them, playful, genuine, and sexual. I also want to bring girls to a different venue. One that is comfortable to sit in, and also not playing music so loud you can hear what you're saying. If you can't hear what you're saying, how can you properly seduce a girl? That is my new hypothesis. I have a different venue I want to bring girls.

I am indeed glad that I didn't invest more after going for the pull. I got nothing else. Not here to hang out. Here to pull. Gotta go do other things. i need to sit up straight more. Maybe even eat more food. I need a strong, grounded, sexual energy.

Maybe I need to show more genuine approval or appreciation for things they do that they tell me. Like, that's cool, that's really cool that you do that. That seems like it would increase attainability, which maybe I need. I teased quite a bit. She answered my questions and stuff, but never really opened up. Maybe she was just being "subtle" with her showing of being attracted.

How do I get more compliance and investment? I watch this girl investing and complying hard. What can I have her do, besides tell me about herself, that gives compliance and investment. I often say "show me your ring/ earring/ necklace", but they don't really do anything. I look at it. Did that count? Did it serve its purpose? Did it land. Maybe I can have her do other things for me. I need to practice being bossy. Put my jacket over there. Hand me that napkin. Hand me a straw. Come over here. What else can I have her do?

On the plus side for the date, I was trying out thinking less, and just doing things. This included teasing. Having fun, basically. Honestly, I feel like having fun works better on younger women. I was seeing a 30 yo for a little bit. I was never very "fun". Then one day, I tried being fun, for myself. The vibe shifted, and we started growing apart. Something about it rubbed her the wrong way, and we grew apart. Weird. My thinking is, if I can't have fun, how can I be with this person? If they can't or won't engage, then why would I want to be with them? Like, lighten up, y'all. It's not like I said something rude while drunk or anything.

On the topic of drinking, maybe I should order non-alcoholic drinks on these dates. I've been drinking more than I ever have. Which means, one drink, a few nights a week. I don't love what it does for your health. Not that I don't feel good. I just like not drinking better. So maybe I will get non-alcoholic beverages from now on. Or just diet soda.

Some girls are not about it. They'll sit silently. They won't leave. But they won't comply with you. Classic. Wanna just sit in silence? Apparently. Plot twist, I love silence. But not complying, I'm not about that. I need to get bossier. I will get bossier. This fun vibe, this not thinking, leading, spur of the moment vibe, this is the way. I might have to find younger girls to use this with, though. Why is this the way? Because I feel like I'm having more fun when I do it. Fun is the guiding light, in life. At least when it comes to getting girls, anyway. Heck, work and business and making money can be fun. If you're having fun, maybe not in the moment when you are grinding, but in the overall enjoyment of it, then you are doing the right thing. When it feels like the manner in which you are going about doing dating/ career/ business/ work/ etc, isn't fun, then you need to change your approach in that respective activity. That's what I say.

Maybe I should do less, on these dates. Give them a chance to ease into it, settle into it, and get comfortable. Give them a chance to ask questions. I could tease. As of this date, I love to tease, apparently. This carefree vibe, this spur of the moment vibe, this makes me want to tease. But being too boisterous, it seems, might be too much. Especially for engineering/data type girls. Usually less boisterous. But I also just need to talk slower. Slower talking, and moving, is usually better. But what about Hector, and his fast approach? I don't know. As readers can tell, I'm just figuring it out.

I want to talk slow/deliberately, and also lead. How to do? That is for the next date to figure out.

I think moving slowly, including facial expressions, is good. That comes with strong, alluring eye contact. Alluring. That is the word I want to embody. Be alluring, but also purposeful. This allows you to both hook people in with how you talk and slow movements and facial expressions, and also lead with your tucked jaw gritted teeth certitude. That is what I am going for next time. Alluring and leading. That's my new mantra. Alluring and leading.