Journal

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date yesterday.

We met at the bar. It was too busy so we went next door. Sat and talked. Body language wise, she sat turned towards me, which is good. But her arms were folded across her body the whole time, which wasn't good. We talked about a bunch of stuff, mostly which felt platonic. I teased at various points, although it didn't seem to "land". After about an hour I invited her back for wine, but she said she had to be up early. I said I had to go 10 minutes later and we paid and left.

One thing that I worry about on these sort of dates is, I might not be "on my game" to make it happen with her. That is, I'm not ready to hold frame, be into her, tease hard, ask for compliance and investment, create the bubble, etc. Why would I not be ready for it? First, it could be that don't believe that she is pullable, or that I won't be attracted, leading to me not giving enough, leading to her auto-rejecting. I wonder if the first step in pulling off a seduction is believing that it is possible, and that you want to. Sometimes, I go to dates after work, and I'm sort of tired and my head is full of work stuff. Then I don't pay enough attention to the seduction aspect, and instead have a platonic friendly conversation, and she isn't about it. On that note, if the conversation is too good, we don't end up having sex. That is another heuristic. The conversation should be subcontext laden, rather than "good and friendly". Make it sub-context-laden.

I guess these dates after work when I am tired and not particularly in the mood to pull are alright. They are good practice, if nothing else. They are socializing, which is generally good. Otherwise I would just sit at home and work more. At the same time, maybe I should take some time beforehand to get in a seductive, horny state of mind. So I can be mentally prepared to take the steps needed to seduce. My energy was a bit off, too, because I didn't sleep well last night. No excuse, but being well rested helps be on the ball, too. Maybe I could walk around the block a few times before the date, to get into the seduction state of mind, to transition from working, and be ready to seduce on the date. What is a good routine I can do before the date, to make sure I am in the right state of mind?

Another element, with this girl, she was from the apps. On the apps, I generally have 1 of 2 approaches for messaging. One is a one-shot text, saying hey you're cute let's get a drink sometime. This is short and to the point. It's not bad, but of the girls that respond to that, you tend to get some that seem really just "social" and willing to get a drink, but haven't bought into you that much, or the fact that you might want something "casual". My other sequence of texting involves saying she is sexy, and saying that I don't want anything serious, and would you like to get a drink. Also some more qualifying, about things she does for fun. I like this sequence better at the moment, because if the girl texts back and forth and hears multiple times that you aren't looking for something serious, then she is more likely down with the idea that you'll invite her back at the end of the date.

This is the element of "filtering", where you're simply screening more for girls that DTF, or close to DTF, to go out with. It is useful to filter in this way, to improve your date-to-lay rate. On these dates, I do them for a combination of 1. practicing socializing and 2. getting laid. I suppose if I screen even harder for DTF and near-DTF girls, then I can boost my lay rate. At the same time, I do want to practice socializing, in the sense that this is currently my only source of dates at the moment. So those are the two goals or objectives or why I go on these types of dates.

I guess one part of the trouble is, holding frame and acting like you want to have sex with a girl requires some effort. What happens is, she will ask a question, and I know I should hold frame in some sort of strong way, but I also don't care enough about sleeping with her to hold frame and keep the conversation tense. So I just go with friendly conversation, it turns friendly, and she is unattracted. Hmm. I guess recognizing it is a good first step. I guess the next step you could do is decide that you are going to hold frame and seduce in your various ways, and just do it. It's like focusing while playing soccer to play well. If you're tired, it's harder to focus, and you are more liable to taking plays off, or just not putting in the little extra effort needed to make a good play. In seduction, same thing.

Now, you can improve your game and fundamentals, such that you can do better even when you are tired. That is indeed a worth goal. How can I unlock all of my charisma, all the time. Maybe smile more. Or not be tired. Maybe take a nap in the afternoon, to be ready for weekday nighttime dates. Also, how can I socialize, while working a pretty busy schedule with work? Maybe at work, lol. Or walking around outside, between the day at work. Just approach girls then, to get the ball rolling. Keep the social muscles up. This is a weird question but, what is the end goal of socializing?

On the plus side, I think that I did feel better as far as holding frame overall, in certain ways. Might slight smirk on the right side of my mouth seems to be good, for talking slower, being in control, thinking of things in the moment. While talking with this girl tonight, I felt remarkably free in my ability to listen to her. Like open, listening, non-judgemental, in the moment. It felt interesting. The slight smirk on the right side of my mouth seems to be helpful for listening, being quick, and overall holding frame. At work, too, it seemed to help during some conversations to "just know the right thing to say." I will have to keep doing this, and paying attention to how and when it works. Maybe this is the beginning of being smooth. Being able to say the right thing at the right time, on the tip of the tongue, all the time. I will keep practicing it.

Taking a step back, I feel like I have made meaningful progress over the last, say, month or so. I have gone on a lot of dates and figured some new things out. I'm learning each time I go out, although frankly I'd like to learn faster, lol. But the journey continues, and it is indeed improving. If I can talk to more people, through work, approaching on the street, on dates I set up, in other situations, I can really master this stuff. Or at least get better and better at it. And to get better as fast as possible.

For this date, the girl seemed to be closed-off. Maybe this is auto-rejection. Chase talks about this a good bit. Balancing attainability with value. What is value, though? No idea. Just tell me some tactic to do, I'll figure the theory later, lol. I know, given all that I've been doing recently, that I can get better and better at this socializing and dating stuff. For example, I've done so many dates, talked about so many of the same things with girls, that it is starting to get second-nature. I don't know if that's good or not. It certainly makes for more predictable conversation. Sometimes I feel like I am years behind most people socially. Yes, there are common topics that people like talking about. That's not a surprise. I guess my point is, if I can make everything about socializing, including the process of turning attractive women into lovers, then that will make for a pretty fun life. How can I accelerate this process, by talking to more people? Talk, talk, talk. Do more of it. That is the goal.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date yesterday.

This was from the apps. She was traveling in the US, and staying at her brother's house, and seeing the city. We met up for a drink. Did the first venue. Went to a second. Walked around a bit. I tried to pull a number of times, but she said no. I left eventually.

The other day Chase had a X post about how girls would be polite if they didn't like you, playful/flirtatious and compliant if they did, and cold/closed off they did but felt they couldn't get what they wanted so into auto rejection. This girl was at times the second, which is good.

I did something consciously different, which I felt helped. I had focused eye contact, strong eye contact. In the past, I have gotten sort of weak eye contact, and not laser beam focused. Clearly the latter is more powerful and attractive. I did this this time, and I felt that it built a stronger vibe and connection, all else being equal. I will do this going forward. I call it "eagle eyes". It is just good, strong eye contact.

I sometimes don't know how to lead the interaction forward. That is, after a while, I run out of things to say or do, then we're just sitting there. Then she asks a question, I'm like, naw, and she's like, why aren't you answering my questions. I'm like, I'm out of energy, it's boring, I'm bored, you're boring me, can I leave. I wonder if there is a remedy to this. Self-amusement? Not looking at her? I can't just be focused on her the whole time. Maybe that is good, though. If I take the focus off her for a bit, then it let's the pressure off for both of us to come up with things to say. Not that I like "dead air". But sometimes I'm out of schtick. I'm just there, wanting to look at the wall. Let me be in peace.

All the normal stuff is what I need to work on. Attraction tech. This time, I teased a bit at the beginning, ribbing her about stuff she said. That seemed good, frankly. She was rather compliant and flirtatious and playful following that for a while. We deep dived and built a connection, asking about things she liked and her telling about it. That was frankly good. It went pretty well after that. So that was good attraction tech. Nice.

After attraction tech it was connection tech. Connection stuff is deep diving. You need it to have the undertone that she is attracted to you, which is why you do attraction tech before connection. Anyway, we did this a bit. That was good.

Next, I needed to transition into sexual topic tech. This is still where I need work. Frankly, I need to be more explicit about it. Talking about sex, that is. Bringing it up. Sexual vibe is needed, too. But I guess, if I have a sexual vibe, and bring it up, and talk about something sex related, but she doesn't bite on it or seem to be affected by it, does that count? Did it land? I need to work on this, identifying when it works, why it works, how to make it work, etc. So the sexualization section is one I need some tech for.

After sexualization is the section when she is quiet, making her decision. This moment sort of came up, although I can't be sure. We were sitting in the second venue, nearing the end of our drinks, and she was staring in the distance. Unfortunately, I started talking with banter again from something we had talked about before. She was like "oh, I was staring in the distance thinking about something, but I don't remember what". If there was a place when she was making her decision, this was probably it. I interrupted her decision-making, which isn't good. I shall look out for that, and avoid it in the future.

I want to now look at the date using this article as my guide:
https://www.girlschase.com/article/trajectory-successful-date. And this is my other favorite: https://www.girlschase.com/content/secrets-getting-girls-time-your-moves.

This is probably my single favorite article from Chase on the whole website.

His model of a date, includes greetings/formalities, small talk to initiate conversation, meaningful connection to further bonding, increasing closeness/touch on high points, the arrival of sexual topics, humor, and vibe, an increase in sexual factors, closeness, and touch, alongside a decrease in meaningful verbal communication, movement to somewhere private, where the escalation to intimacy begins.

I like this overall. In the past, my problem has been, lets say you get to the meaningful connection to further bonding, then the next step is increasing closeness/touch on high points, then the arrival of sexual topics, humor, and vibe. My challenge has been transitioning from meaningful connection to more touch and sexual vibe. In the last week or so, I have diagnosed it as needing more attraction stuff, like teasing and flirting in the beginning, before getting into connection. I'm curious why this date model doesn't have attraction in there somewhere. Is that because you would have flirted/teased when you got the number, before the date? If that is the case, then maybe I don't need to tease/flirt like I had been doing. It seemed to work today, the flirt and teasing. Still, though, I then had trouble turning it more sexual. It's like, how you get close with her, without outright leaning into her space? I guess I could do that. It just seems like you're overinvesting. I mean, if that is not too much investment, and it's a case of give a little to get a lot, then maybe it is worth it.

I tend to try to sit up straight, and go into her sometimes, but also pull her into me, and touch her more, to get the sexual vibe going. At least that's what I've been trying lately. What is the feeling of having the sexual vibe, or sexual intent, or whatever you want to call it? I think I do want to lean into her more, with my head/face getting close, because this rather clearly signals intent, and creates sexual tension. This creates the feeling, then perhaps the verbals will come more natural. If you create the vibe, the verbals will take care of themselves. Creating the vibe comes from the body language, which, I am hypothesizing, comes from leaning your head close into hers. That is sort of my hypothesis. It is a simple body language thing. You lean your head into something that you like. If she moves away, then you can back off, and re-group.

Another point of this is, I sort of need to show more interest. That is, sexy guys show interest, not in a needy way, but in a this is what I want and I'm not ashamed of it way. I need to perhaps do this more, because otherwise no sexual vibe gets created, and later when I go to pull, it feels out of left field. I think just getting close overall is a decent way, at this stage, so turn up the sexual vibe.

I remember Alek did an article discussing this. He said that an easy way to transition closer to the girl is to go to a second venue, and when you sit down there, sit close. I can see the usefulness of this, as you use the transition to make that move. What if you are just at the first place, and you just move closer to her on the bench or whatever? Even better would be to have her come to you, which you can do a little bit. I often say "come close so I can hear you". Sometimes they come close enough, sometimes not. What i can do is come in even closer, to turn up the sexual tension and vibe. I like the idea of doing your whole process at one venue, as opposed to two. Two is just too much. If she doesn't want it after one, then how is two going to change things? That's what I say.

Maybe I could do hybrid. Tease at the beginning, then get into connection and the rest. That way you establish a little bit of attraction, in case it wasn't there already. Then do the rest. Touch on high points. Move closer. Turn up the sexual tension by getting close after building a connection. Getting less verbal. She decides. You pull.

I need to re-read both those articles again like 20 times. Very good.

I don't love on dates, when I go for the pull, they say no. I can stay there and keep going, but I really usually don't have too much to say or go on. I'm fine to stare at the wall, but if she wants to keep talking, I'm sort of out of things to talk about. What do you do? Is there anything to do after a girl says no to the pull? As far as preparing for the pull, I think getting physically close is important. Again, my successful dates in the past have involved very close physical touch, prior to pulling. Well, some more than others. But the more "iffy" ones, as in she wasn't DTF beforehand, this is what happened. Thus, do it again. What this will do, basically, is avoid the situation, when the vibe is friendly, but you know that based on time you should pull. You go for it, and she says no. Boo. So, get close, turn it sexual, and the pull will make sense. At the very least, I don't want her to not be expecting a pull attempt. I want her to feel the sexual vibe. I want her to feel the sexy. She might not be down for the sexy, but at least she will feel it. I need to turn up the sexual vibe before going for the pull. If I get physically close and she moves away, then so be it. But I won't get to a pull timing-wise without having shown sexual intent through my verbals and/or physical proximity and touch. It is important.

As far as the other thing I'm working on, attraction in the beginning via teasing or flirting, Chase says you don't want to overdo this. Guys will, he says, overgame by doing too much teasing and flirting later on, after you got attraction. I guess, maybe I wasn't doing enough of this before, and so I should add a little bit, but not too much? maybe that is where I'm at. I have to add some in, but make sure not to overdo it, because everything can be overdone. Maybe, too, I could overdo it for a little bit, to get a feel for what is too much, and then dial it back. For example, the girl last year who I teased a ton, got together with, but she didn't see me as a serious possibility for something more with because she felt I was a "jerk". On the date in this post, I had like 4 or 5 teases in a row at the beginning, because I was working on it and wanted to get a feel for it. Maybe that was one or two too many, or maybe even one or two too few. Not sure. Attraction tech is sort of something I have been add in and haven't done before, so it is important to play around with.

Sexualization tech is what I'm also going to work on. Namely, getting physically close to her, and even leaning in. Heck, make it uncomfortable. If she leaves, that's fine. If she moves away, I guess wash and repeat, although your chances of success later may or may not be high. Anyway, do it, because it needs to be done.

So attraction tech via teasing in the beginning, let's say 2 or 3 teases, just enough so she feels it. Then after the connection stuff, increasing touch and getting physically closer including leaning in with my head. Those are the two things I'm working on. While I'm at it, I could probably work on small talk in the beginning. I'm usually coming from the workday, so my chit-chat game is kind of rusty. I might try to improve that, for whatever it is worth. Might as well. It needn't be hard, but I haven't examined it a lot.

I should really read those two articles 10 times a day. Just try to execute those as much as possible. Those are really the ones that speak most to my soul when it comes to seduction, in a practical way.

I'm thinking back to a date I had in January. On that one, I indeed got quite close to the girl. Like moving myself to get in close, put my arm around her, got physically close with my body. She ended up coming home, and we got naked together on the bed, but no sex. But, this highlighted a time when I just went for it as far as "getting close", and it led to good things happening. It upped the vibe, which was undeniably sexual. We didn't end up having sex, which doesn't make for a good ending of the story. But getting this girl back, was good, as it shows something that worked.

I guess my hesitancy about "getting close" as of late has been that I don't want to seem tryhard by moving myself close to her. Either I want to stay away, and not risk rejection, or have her come close, which she doesn't want to do because of risking rejection. One of you has to make that move, and as the guy, you might as well do it. The guy leads. Simple as.

But this also explains why many of my dates have felt platonic somewhat recently. I have been missing the escalation window to move from connection to closeness, and therefore sexual topics, and then it turns into a platonic date. Thus, this "getting close" stage and escalation window is one that I have to hit.

Thinking back, there was another seduction in October where I leaned in close, upping the sexual tension, and we ended up together. So that is another example of leaning in to create sexual tension work. Interesting. Seems like the right move. I have sort of been relying on just verbal stuff, or trying to make just verbal work. It can work, but yo probably need more clearly sexual stuff, like Alek's sex talk, to make this work. I need to add the non-verbal piece in more, the leaning in and getting close, to create that sexual tension. That is what I need right now.

 

[bobbyb112]

On went on a date last night.

We met up for drinks. Had a drink. I teased. I got close. She was playing with her hair. I invited her back. She said no. I said okay. We sat silently. I left.

Her body language was such that she didn't really turn to me at all. Like, she was facing one way, and wouldn't even look at my. What the heck. Is she in auto rejection? She was pulling at her hair. I can't tell if this is a sign of interest, or just something she does. Anyway, I went to pull, she said no. I'm out of ideas. She is not interesting. Therefore, I leave.

I did tease and stuff. That was good. It landed, in that she laughed. I was teasing. She wasn't very interesting though. She didn't really do anything fun. She might enjoy her job. Another question, when you touch her, and she doesn't touch back, is that bad? It doesn't feel very inviting, frankly. It's like, if she is just going to be a stone, and no look at me, and not say anything, I guess this is over? I can think of no other way to go with it.

Also, in our texting, I had said that I didn't want anything serious, etc. Does this mean she was expecting something different? I don't know. I'm not sure if bailing on this date as a good idea or not. It had been around 40 mins. We sent through our stuff. I maybe could have deep dived better. Switched tonalities between playful, genuine, and sexual better. Probably took deep breaths, and been more present. That is something I want to do. Meditate for 5 minutes before going out on a date. It feels like I am more present when I do.

On the flip side, this girl might have just been a more quiet girl. She did data science, so worked with numbers and all that. Those girls, and guys, often aren't the "talkative" type. So maybe that was part of it. That could've been part of it. On the one hand, I don't have time to hang around on a date that is going nowhere. On the other hand, staying in the saddle, and burning it to the ground, as it were, could be useful. I'm not sure.

I leaned in indeed. I got close. Problem is, she didn't lean back. More just looked away. I'm glad I did it, because I showed my intent. It increased pressure. Again, I'm glad I did it, because she could probably feel it. It wasn't so good, that she wasn't having it. But hey, I did what I came to do. I leaned in close, and increased pressure.

I'm not sure if I need to increase attraction, or increase connection, or add a sexier vibe, or what. It felt too transactional. Too many dates feel too transactional. Just in the sense, I would love to get genuine attraction, connection, sexual tension, all that. It is fun. I enjoy it. I don't believe you need a lot of time to do it. But you do need to do things in certain ways that actually build those things.

Some more things. I need to talk slower. And have something besides a playful tone. The playful tone is good. But you have to switch between them, playful, genuine, and sexual. I also want to bring girls to a different venue. One that is comfortable to sit in, and also not playing music so loud you can hear what you're saying. If you can't hear what you're saying, how can you properly seduce a girl? That is my new hypothesis. I have a different venue I want to bring girls.

I am indeed glad that I didn't invest more after going for the pull. I got nothing else. Not here to hang out. Here to pull. Gotta go do other things. i need to sit up straight more. Maybe even eat more food. I need a strong, grounded, sexual energy.

Maybe I need to show more genuine approval or appreciation for things they do that they tell me. Like, that's cool, that's really cool that you do that. That seems like it would increase attainability, which maybe I need. I teased quite a bit. She answered my questions and stuff, but never really opened up. Maybe she was just being "subtle" with her showing of being attracted.

How do I get more compliance and investment? I watch this girl investing and complying hard. What can I have her do, besides tell me about herself, that gives compliance and investment. I often say "show me your ring/ earring/ necklace", but they don't really do anything. I look at it. Did that count? Did it serve its purpose? Did it land. Maybe I can have her do other things for me. I need to practice being bossy. Put my jacket over there. Hand me that napkin. Hand me a straw. Come over here. What else can I have her do?

On the plus side for the date, I was trying out thinking less, and just doing things. This included teasing. Having fun, basically. Honestly, I feel like having fun works better on younger women. I was seeing a 30 yo for a little bit. I was never very "fun". Then one day, I tried being fun, for myself. The vibe shifted, and we started growing apart. Something about it rubbed her the wrong way, and we grew apart. Weird. My thinking is, if I can't have fun, how can I be with this person? If they can't or won't engage, then why would I want to be with them? Like, lighten up, y'all. It's not like I said something rude while drunk or anything.

On the topic of drinking, maybe I should order non-alcoholic drinks on these dates. I've been drinking more than I ever have. Which means, one drink, a few nights a week. I don't love what it does for your health. Not that I don't feel good. I just like not drinking better. So maybe I will get non-alcoholic beverages from now on. Or just diet soda.

Some girls are not about it. They'll sit silently. They won't leave. But they won't comply with you. Classic. Wanna just sit in silence? Apparently. Plot twist, I love silence. But not complying, I'm not about that. I need to get bossier. I will get bossier. This fun vibe, this not thinking, leading, spur of the moment vibe, this is the way. I might have to find younger girls to use this with, though. Why is this the way? Because I feel like I'm having more fun when I do it. Fun is the guiding light, in life. At least when it comes to getting girls, anyway. Heck, work and business and making money can be fun. If you're having fun, maybe not in the moment when you are grinding, but in the overall enjoyment of it, then you are doing the right thing. When it feels like the manner in which you are going about doing dating/ career/ business/ work/ etc, isn't fun, then you need to change your approach in that respective activity. That's what I say.

Maybe I should do less, on these dates. Give them a chance to ease into it, settle into it, and get comfortable. Give them a chance to ask questions. I could tease. As of this date, I love to tease, apparently. This carefree vibe, this spur of the moment vibe, this makes me want to tease. But being too boisterous, it seems, might be too much. Especially for engineering/data type girls. Usually less boisterous. But I also just need to talk slower. Slower talking, and moving, is usually better. But what about Hector, and his fast approach? I don't know. As readers can tell, I'm just figuring it out.

I want to talk slow/deliberately, and also lead. How to do? That is for the next date to figure out.

I think moving slowly, including facial expressions, is good. That comes with strong, alluring eye contact. Alluring. That is the word I want to embody. Be alluring, but also purposeful. This allows you to both hook people in with how you talk and slow movements and facial expressions, and also lead with your tucked jaw gritted teeth certitude. That is what I am going for next time. Alluring and leading. That's my new mantra. Alluring and leading.

 

[bobbyb112]

I didn't go on a date, but I did meet up with the girl from last week a second time.

I need to start giving these girls codenames, but she was the girl from about a week ago that seemed really experienced, and we had sex on the first date. This time, she came over, we had sex, and then talked for a while. Unfortunately, oftentimes, after having sex once, I can't get it up again for the night. So we escalated to have sex a second time, but I couldn't get it up. Bummer. I wonder what causes that, if anything.

We escalated to sex the second time, and I felt that she was pretty wet. She might've felt let down after getting all ready to go like that, then not being able to have pleasure. I hope she didn't feel miffed by that. It's hard being a girl! It seems like multiple rounds of sex is good, because it helps attainability, and it just gives you both more pleasure, and hopefully her more orgasms, which is good. Like I said, I usually can't go multiple rounds in a night. I can last a long time in the first round, though.

I did have a revelation of sorts, though.

This was perhaps one of the first times when I have actually enjoyed the company of a woman. This might sound ridiculous. But seriously, every other woman I've been on a date with or been with, has been in some way unenjoyable. Usually the issue has been that I can't be in the moment in conversation, just enjoying the moment. Rather, I am in my head, thinking of various seduction related things I need to be doing and working on. However, walking around today, for some reason, I thought about just being in the moment. This is related to my last post from this morning, where I noticed in the date that if I didn't think and just had fun, then I had fun. Well, tonight seeing this girl for a second time, I also didn't think. And I had more fun. More fun in the sense that I enjoyed the conversation. And of course the sex was good and enjoyable, too.

Now, I'm not sure if I did any good "game" with her tonight. Again, it was a second meet up after having sex the first time, so there was little to do other than do the deed. But the talking part was good, in that I was in the moment and enjoying it. Which I accomplished by not thinking.

As I was walking around today, another way to accomplish the Zen-koan-like goal of concentrating on not thinking, I came up with the idea of imagining a single point right in front of my face, or a little hairy swirling ball just bigger than a point, fright in front of my face. By concentrating on this imaginary ball or point, I felt that I could be in the moment, with whatever I was doing. Rather than being bored or distracted. For some reason, this made sense to me today.

It probably has to do something with things that Ekhart Tolle talks about, although I have never read his books. I imagine it is something about being in the moment, and living in the moment to make life enjoyable and give you happiness overall. This has been on my mind, because for the first time in my life, relatively recently, I felt like I might not be happy. This realization came about from realizing I am quiet behind on a plan to have kids someday. That is the real goal that I am going for, and the point of all this dating stuff. Realizing I am behind on that goal is what made me question my happiness, which I never have in my life until now.

Anyway, living in the moment is definitely good. Good not just for "happiness", but also for seduction and doing anything. Because you need to be concentrating on whatever is right in front of you, to perform well, execute on the task at hand, leading to progress.

I was also thinking about the idea of loneliness, or at least the point of socializing, and how it can lead to happiness in my life. Reason being, the last 2-3 weeks or so, I have been working pretty diligently on a few work projects. It's busy, and I've been working say 12+ hour days, mostly by myself. This leads to a certain feeling of loneliness, when you don't talk to people. So what is the antidote? Or, what is the minimum, or optimal, or ideal amount of talking to other people on a daily basis to achieve life happiness? I find that when I do talk to other people during the day, even if it is not too long, it helps my feeling of wellbeing and happiness. It is good. It needn't be socializing, necessarily, but can be work stuff. It can also be something fun like improv, which gets you talking. What isn't good is when you talk to literally zero people all day. You'd think that while working, you would end up talking to people. But that isn't always the case.

But, as a social being, I should also have ways to socialize that are unrelated to work or formal activities. In other words, just going to a bar or lounge or something, and striking up a conversation. Or starting a conversation with somebody in the street. It seems like, and stands to reason, that this would be a good thing. We are social animals. We generally like talking with other people. I should have ways to do it outside of work and formal activities for doing this.

Then there is socializing to get your needs met outside of dating. That is, don't let the girl you're seeing, or the date you're going on, be the only or main source of your socialization. Because if you try to get your social needs met on the date, it can take away from your ability to pull her and turn her into a lover. I think I have been making this mistake a few times over the last 3 weeks or so. I have gone on dates, which I have written about here, where it is very platonic. Maybe subconsciously in my mind, I was thinking, I want to just socialize after a day of hard work where I didn't talk to anyone. That is no bueno, because it makes it harder to pull. Are you looking for a new lover, or a friend? A new lover. Not a friend. Not here.

Another point of this is, sometimes I do activities that are fun activities, but may or may not have much socializing involved. An example is BJJ, which I did for a while. After leaving the classes, I felt the joyous feeling of having learned and practiced something new, namely BJJ. But we didn't socialize much during class, which is to be expected. So the point is, maybe the joyous tingling of learning something new is different from socializing. Also enjoyable, but separated and different from socializing itself. Although socializing can be a skill which you practice, and learn more. So you get the double benefit there, of learning the skill, and just being a social animal.

For example, would going to BJJ classes after work days be beneficial? Maybe, sure. Another question is, how do I fill my socialization needs outside of my dedicated seduction time, if at all? Maybe I shouldn't worry about that. Maybe I should just go approach and try to close. Maybe talk to everyone when out, striking conversations with everyone, not just girls you're approaching, in order to get in the social flow. That seems like a good idea.

In any case, I probably should leave my house more. Working these 12+ hour days, there are days when I don't leave my house at all. Good for money, not good for living a social, women-filled life. Hmm. Maybe I will have to cut back on these work projects, in order to prioritize my (heretofore minimal) social activities. And on that note, get some social activities. What are some social activities? Do classes like BJJ count?

I have a few updates on girls from the last few weeks, with notes:
-- Girl who I went on a second date with, and had boring conversation with: I texted to set up a third date, but she said that she felt like we weren't very compatible as far as conversation. So I did not respond, and don't plan on it. Woah, so I'm glad she was noticing the same thing I was. Indeed, I think she was the problem here. Here conversation style was totally bizarre, and didn't feel like she was listening, hearing, or saying something interesting. I don't like taking myself off the hook by saying she was the one bad at conversation while I wasn't, but at the same time, she just needs to find someone who really likes her conversation style, rather than me.
-- Girl who I went on one date with and then wanted to go on a second: We set up time to go on a second date. She had texted a day and a half after the first one, which I took as a signal that she wanted to go out again. I hadn't planned on trying to set up a second, because she just didn't seem that interested. But since she reached out, I figured why not. Also, I invited her to my place to make food, as opposed to going out for food. The reason being, I need to see if she is interested enough to have sex, not just "spend time eating food together". I'm not trying to get my socialization needs met, here. I'm trying to get my sexualization needs met. However, she canceled the date the day before. Probably because she made plans with other people, etc. Which is fine. It's just funny because, why does she want to go out with me that much, then, if she has all these great other plans? Wheeling and dealing, as they say. I again didn't text. She texted saying can we do next week. I said sure. We haven't set that up yet, but it will be this coming week. I'm sure she is just wheeling and dealing. But I will invite her directly to my place to make some food, and if she doesn't want to do that, then I have no interest. There was another girl who is younger, and she has texted out of the blue a few times to meet up for a first date. But then she goes dark, or just doesn't respond to texts. Then pops up again. Again, she's probably just wheeling and dealing. She's getting invites from various dating opportunities, or other social opportunities that she wants to take up. I'm doing the same thing, frankly. I guess it is encouraging or flattering that she keeps popping up to think of me.
-- Girl who I've slept with twice: I texted her to try to set up a third time to see her. She was responsive, but then her work schedule made it not possible. I asked when she was free, other than that original time. She hasn't responded yet. Maybe she will, maybe she won't.

Another thing I was thinking about today while walking around, was that I need to talk slower. I've been talking too fast lately. I need to just slow it down. And listen. Talk like you would with a friend or family member. Do you talk fast and higher or uptone? No. You talk slow, and not thinking as much. This dovetails with my not thinking philosophy, now. By not thinking, you don't say too much, and you talk slower and deeper. John Wayne, or the actor who played John Wayne, gave the advice to Michael Caine about acting: "talk low and slow". And that's what Wayne did. It works. Low and slow is what I need. And not thinking.

By not thinking, you can focus on the other person. If you are thinking, it usually is you planning what you're going to do or say next. But by not thinking, you can focus on them, and give them what they need. Genious.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date tonight.

We met in front of one bar. We walked to another. Sat. Got drinks. Talked. Vibed. Got closer. Talked about sexual things. Got closer. Went for pull. She deferred. Talked more. She asked if I lived alone. I pulled. Paid. Left. Back at mine. Sex. Done.

A few things to take note of on this lay. First, I decided to use a different venue than I had been. I wanted this other bar to work, but it just doesn't. Problems were that it is usually very full, and the music is very loud and more on the side of pop music. On the plus side, it is very close to my place. I decided to use another place as my first date spot. It is more of a "lounge" feel, with a little chiller music, which isn't quite as loud. Dark, with a more sophisticated feel, rather than neighborhood bar. So we walked there. I may or may not make this my normal routine, but I invited her to meet in front of the first bar, and then said hey lets go to this other place, so we walked the 5 minutes there. I do like this a little bit, because it gives movement to the interaction. You can chit chat on the way there, too, and you know that it isn't too loud, because it's on the street. So I am definitely using that venue as my first date spot from now on. I might use the "meet in front of one place and walk to the actual place" tactic, to get movement.

I was worried the lounge venue would also be very busy, like the other two bars I usually use are, but it only had a handful of people, and we got a seat easily. This venue works a lot better, because there is music, but it is quieter, and more chill. Not quite house music, but indeed more chill. Plus, the seats are more casual, rather than wooded barstools or seats. I like it better overall.

With the music quieter, we could actually talk. This is frankly the problem I have had in my other 2 venues, where it is so loud, that you have to be sort of loud and friendly to be heard over the music. It's hard to be lowkey and sexy when you have to yell over music. And you can try to bring her closer, but in those venues, the seating made it difficult, and it just doesn't feel as intimate. So, lounge for the win.

I also changed my approach to the date overall. I decided to basically tone down everything overall, and just go in with chill, cool guy. Talk and vibe and stuff, and then invite her back (seeing how it went first). Lately I've been trying to "tease a lot", but with this, just chill, cool guy was what I was going for. This means you are neither too supplicating (avoiding nice guy), nor too challenging (avoiding jerk). Instead, just chill, cool guy. As we can see by the results, this seemed to work out.

Chase had an X post recently (or maybe it was an article?) about how for girls in their late 20's or early 30's, say maybe 27-30, to get them, you have to tone down the teasing and stimulation that is required for younger girls. Instead, he says, you almost tone your game down so much that you are just a cool, chill guy, who moves things forward, and you end up in bed together. This is what I thought it said, anyway. Or maybe I am just re-writing it, to align with what I felt I did on the date, lol. Anyway, I was thinking back this week to other dates I had had with girls who were say 28-30. You'd think these girls would be "easier", since they are older, compared to 18-25 yo. Shouldn't it be a shoo-in? But lately, I've been having trouble with them. Indeed, all those dates I went on a few weeks go, ended up with very little to show for it. What gives?

Well, I thought back to when I had success with this demographic before. Then, I basically went on the date, talked, got to know them, and invited them back. Not too much "game", nor too much "teasing", although I was by no means a nice guy pushover. In my mind, this was the chill, cool guy approach, and you just get to know them and move things forward and invite them back and they come. So, that is why I decided to try this approach this time. Also, I just decided to be more chill overall. On all those unsuccessful dates, I think I was trying to hard. Trying to be witty or funny, trying to show genuine interest, trying to tease and be playful and make jokes, trying to touch and get close. Too much trying. And part of the problem with trying is, you overthink. You're more likely to be in your head. So, that is why this time, I decided to purposefully be more chill. Just be chill. Go from there.

It seemed to work, because we talked, without the conversation being manic, or too loud, or too logical. It was just... chill. Then, the date progressed, there was a natural spot where she used my line that isn't a line to move closer to me, "it's too loud I can't hear you" me: "then come sit over here". She came from the seat she was sitting at, to take a seat next to me. Now we're close. This was after we had deep dived a bit. And so we talked about deep dive stuff a bit, but then I felt, soon after she came to sit close, that the next thing to do was to talk about sexual topics. And moreover, to cut space, and get closer to her. So I did, by leaning my head in, which upped the sexual vibe. Then putting my arm around her back, which she let me do. The sexual topics we then talked about, I forget what they were, but I will try to remember tomorrow, because knowing specific things I said here is good to know so I can re-create it in the future. I know I chased framed, essentially teasing her that she was trying to give me the wrong idea, or something. It was more explicit, which I will remember soon.

The conversation died down, and I went for the pull. I read it as the conversation dying down, downshifting, as Chase says, and I decided to see if that meant she was ready to pull. She wasn't, and so I just rinsed and repeated, by going back to some deep dive stuff, including travel talk, which is good because travel is a generally sexy mysterious topic. Close to finishing our drinks, she asked if I lived alone. I said yes. Soon after, like 20 seconds, I went for the pull again. She didn't really say yes, but more of a mhmm. I think the mhmm was more because I said lets have a glass of wine, and she was like "is that it", and I'm like "yeah, that's it". I don't want to hide the banana here, but I also don't want to be too overt. I don't see how being too overt helps here. Maybe I should just saying a knowing "amongst other things". We were pretty well on the same page, but I guess some girls want to be even more explicit? I don't know. Maybe I just need to improve my sexy vibe even more, to make it super clear "what I mean", without saying it. "Wanna go back and fuck?". Maybe that's what I should start saying.

In the beginning of the date, when we were walking from the meeting spot to the lounge, she asked what I did for work. I got triggered in my mind, because I was concerned that she's one of those girls who just want to know what you do and how much you make. Luckily, I kept that reaction in check, and just gave a minimal answer. She said "that was a very vague answer". I said "I can tell you more about it when we get to the bar". Looking back, I think she was just making conversation. So I'm glad I didn't auto-eject and leave the date right then and there. I seriously thought about it. I didn't want to be in for a night of grilling. Thankfully that isn't how it went.

I did tease a little bit on the way to the venue. Just playful stuff. Lightening up the mood. Perhaps the best way to gauge all of this is, just be in the moment, be chill, cool. Feel the vibes. And determine how much teasing she needs or not. Joking upon first meeting is good, because you are essentially strangers meeting for the first time, and you want to show that you are playful. This what it means to have calibration, to be in tune with a situation, and know what it needs at that moment. I didn't calculate in my head "here is where I need to be playful". I more just was chill, cool, and did what I wanted to do in the situation. This is, dare I say, what "natural" game looks like. Natural in the sense that you are listening to your gut, and trusting it, and acting on it. And being calm and feeling with your body, instead of thinking with your head. I can go on about this topic for quite a while, and maybe I will.

For example, the gut knows the answers. You feel it in your gut, and your body, too. You feel what to do in your body. They key is to listen to it, and act on it. You want the answers to come from your body, rather than your head. George Soros, the uber wealthy investor, says that he made decisions on moves to make in the market based on a random twinge in his back. Little pains in his body, would cause him to decide what to do with a trade. Why? Because the body knows things your conscious mind doesn't. Maybe you could say the body is more in tune with the subconscious mind, which is of course has much more knowledge than the conscious mind. Heck, the body IS the subconscious mind, because it is all the little processes that go on without our conscious thought. It makes sense that something going wrong would be felt in the body. This is how in-tune with your body and gut you want to be. If you let it guide your decisions, usually things go a lot better.

And this is part of the advice of be chill and cool is good. Because that means you are calm enough to listen to your body, which I wasn't before. Second, not over-gaming is important. Before I was probably over-gaming, and coming across as a tryhard. Chill and cool is the way to go. Another thing that probably helped was, I went into the office during the day. Usually I work at home, so I am not around people all day. Going into the office, you just get more socialization, as it were. Not a ton, I didn't talk to people a ton. But overall, I feel it does help. Maybe I will go into the office more often, especially if I have a date later that night, just in case it helps.

With this date, you might say that it was a lay down and you didn't do anything revolutionary. And that's true. I don't want to do anything revolutionary. I just want to convert a girl that goes out on a date with me to sex. They say that if she is on the date, then you passed her looks threshold (this is from OLD, so looks are more important there, compared to real-life approaching). If you can't convert her from the date, then your game what was lacking. My point with this one is, I am glad my game seems to have gotten the job done. Even if my game just consisted of being chill, deep diving, some teasing, some sexualization, proposing going home, etc. Is that what game is supposed to look like? Just being chill, cool, and moving things forward? Time will tell.

 

[bobbyb112]

I went on a date tonight.

We met at the first bar. Walked to the lounge place that I'm liking. We sat there. The seat there is kind of awkward, but still better than most places. We sat and talked. Deep dived. Talked for a while. Had her come sit next to me, and touched and put my arm behind her, although the vibe was not very personal. Went for the pull, but she said maybe. We walked out, and she still said maybe. I left.

I think the problem with this one was, I wasn't playful enough and teasing right in the beginning. More joking about things that weren't personal, rather than about her. You want it to be about her. Rather than joking about other things. This led, throughout the whole conversation, to making it feel more platonic, rather than personal. Also, when I went to sexualize, she indirectly said that it felt out of character or weird. When I went for the pull, it didn't feel super close or in a bubble. I didn't want to push things at that point, because I could feel that it wasn't going to happen. So I said have a good night, and left.

She said things rhetorically like "are we vibing?". In my head, I'm thinking "quit being autistic". But the insight to glean from her saying that is, I was making moves like we were vibing (like putting my arm around her and getting close), and she didn't feel like we were vibing in that way. Hence, the rhetorical "are we vibing?". The tone of this question wasn't mean or anything, or skeptical, or teasing, but more just rhetorical. This is how you can tell that she wasn't ultimately feeling it. If she was, she would just go with it, rather than saying something in that way.

I like to believe that issues downstream appear due to something you messed up early in the interaction. In this one, I think the lack of personalized teasing, when we were walking to the venue, put it off on the wrong foot. Making it feel friendly/platonic, rather than personal/flirty. Hence, she wasn't "attracted". Hence, the platonic conversation, and each subsequent step not "landing" when I did it. That being said, I'm glad that I can recognize the subsequent steps, and do them, since it is good to get practice doing each step. With sexualizing, I leaned in close. She could definitely feel it, which is good. But, then, her reaction to feeling that way, this is incongruent, and she indirectly said that it felt weird, through some stories she told. This is what it looks like when your good tech doesn't land, because you probably messed something up earlier.

At the end of the date, when we were walking out of the venue and she was going to go home, she asked again "are we vibing?", and I said something like "do you like me?" She said that she thought I was funny, and we had witty banter. My take on this is, she felt like it was good for what it was, but that it felt platonic. Also, that when I deep dived, she said that I said it was "interesting", but like how did you feel about it. The insight here is that when it is platonic like this, you can have a good conversation, but it just feels like everything is at arm's length, because it is platonic. It's like, the things she told me were "interesting", but that is sort of circumspect and impersonal. What does it say about HER, and how I feel about HER? If she was attracted, then your deep dive stuff takes on a whole new meaning, basically that you are trying to understand her, to evaluate her as a prospective mate, rather than just as an "interesting" conversation. So that is the vibe difference there.

What was also good about this date is that I was the chill, cool guy vibe again, similar to last night. This seems good. It is lowkey, not too much. Relatively low energy, but high "sprezzatura". Moreover, I'm just not thinking too much, which is good, because you're not in your head. My reactions aren't too big. I'm moving slowly. My voice is warm and purring, but not in any tryhard way. So this was all good. This is definitely the vibe to continue. That much of technique and way about you, that is good. Keep doing that.

So, we have the sprezzatura vibe good. Deep diving good. Sexualization good. Going for the pull good. Not in terms of results, but in terms of my execution. What messed it all up was that the conversation was not personal, because I didn't tease and flirt with her, right in the beginning.

Okay, now that we've identified where it went wrong, let's zoom in and explore what happened, what causes it to happen, and how we can then fix it.


For some reason, I am not teasing/flirting right in the beginning. Why am I not doing that? It could be a few things.

-- Many (most?) days, I work from home, and talk to basically nobody. Today was one of those days, and I literally didn't talk to anybody all day. This is probably not good for socialization. Yesterday, I had actually gone into the office, and was around other people and talked to them. So maybe I was in a better social mood, or more warmed up. It could be the case that I am not getting enough socializing outside of basically the dates I have been going on, and so when I'm on the dates, I just keep them platonic, because I more just want to talk to someone and have a platonic, friendly, interesting conversation. And so, subconsciously, I am making the interaction go that way, when I first meet up with the girl. So in this hypothesis, the problem is I am not getting enough socialization outside of the date, and so on the date I play it safe just to get my basic socialization needs met for the day. Could be.

-- Health/ exercise/ diet: Today I walked for an hour after work. I walked for an hour total yesterday, too. So I don't think it is this. Moreover, my health is pretty good overall, and I don't have anything too different with my diet over time. So I don't think it is anything here.

-- Afternoon nap: Often when working from home, I will take a 20 or 40 minute nap in the afternoon. I did that today. While this can be good for health and wellbeing overall, maybe it makes me too "satisfied", and so I don't feel the need as much to give my brain happiness via orgasms and skin-on-skin contact. Meaning, when you take a nap, your health and wellbeing feels great, and so you don't feel as ambitious, basically. That is one hypothesis. It's worth testing. Basically, the test would be to not nap, work from home like usual, and then go on a date, and see how easy or not it is to do a seduction and make sure there is attraction (i.e. do it the right way). It is a pretty valid test to run, so I might try it. I don't think this is it, though, but it's worth trying.

-- Maybe she just wasn't that attractive: I don't like this way of thinking, because it externalizes the blame, rather than assessing within myself what is causing it. So I don't like this hypothesis. Moreover, she was perfectly attractive. A yes. That's all you need.

-- I wasn't in the flow from work: There are days when you get work done, but you really didn't get into the creative flow. You did needed work, but it wasn't the creative flow that really gets your juices going. Gives you that zest for life. If you don't have that in your day, you don't feel so psyched to bring a pretty girl into your life. So you self-sabotage, like I did. Today, and more days than I would like to think, I don't really get in a "creative flow". I get needed work done, but it isn't the creative flow. So maybe I could try doing some work like that. I get into that state when writing, and so, I could make do some of this writing after work, before going on the date. That way I am excited about life and ready to knock the socks off any girl who comes within a 10 foot radius of me. This is a hypothesis to test. Basically, I will write 1000 words after work, before going on the date. See if that helps.

-- General exercise: Maybe doing more exercise throughout the day, or before the date, could help. Like doing air squats. I did some pull ups after work before the date. I also walked for an hour, but that doesn't really get your heart rate going. Maybe making sure to do some exercise to really get the heart rate going would get me more excited to have sexy experiences with sexy females.

-- Meditation: Maybe meditating before the date could help. Clear my mind of other things, work, whatever. Probably couldn't hurt.

-- Simply reminding myself that the goal is to have sex with her, not have an interesting platonic conversation. Maybe I just need to remind myself of this. Maybe this is a self-image thing, or picturing what you want to have happen. The picture in your head needs to be about conquest, rather than successful friendly conversation. This could be the case, too.


As you can see, a lot of my hypotheses are about living a full life. Happily, I do enjoy my life a lot, and my work, and I am healthy, thankful, all those things. So don't think that I don't have "momentum" in my life. I absolutely do. I love my life. Maybe I just need more of it. I'm just trying to think of things to try. The lack of socialization outside of dates really seems like one that could be it. You need a level of socialization in your life, outside of dating, or work, or even family time. Yes, those all also involve socializing. But the point is, if you don't have socializing except on dates with girls, then you might subconsciously try to get socializing needs met there. The same thing happens with some salespeople. They try to make prospects they talk to their friends, but don't talk about business problems and have business conversations. As a result, they "make a friend", but don't generate business. You talked about friend stuff, and not business. That's why you aren't doing business together, even though you have a new friend. The lesson is, don't try to get your socializing needs me from sales prospects, nor dating prospects. Get it elsewhere. Or otherwise convince yourself you don't need it? I need to be about "business", on these dates.

Or, maybe I just need to remind myself that it needs to be done. Remember to tease and flirt at the beginning, to build attraction. Then watch as the rest falls into place (assuming you also do those stages well). Just remember to do it. Do it. Remind yourself, and do it. This is definitely something I'll try. Remember to do it. Maybe warming up could help, too. Talk to a doorman, or server, or cashier, or whatever. Warm up in that way. And, just warm up your mental state. That way you don't show up and have to wait a few minutes to warm up.

Another part is, in terms of teasing or flirting well, is getting the feeling of it down well. How do you get the feeling down well? That feeling seems like it is making fun of her. It's fun. And it is lightening up the mood. Like I did last night, on a date similar to this. But in that one, I did tease well, and it worked a lot better. And everything else fell into place. The deep dives felt personal. The sexualization landed. And the pull was pull-y. So that's why you have to establish attraction before doing all the rest. You just do. So I will consciously practice that. I'm writing so much about it here, to get myself to remember its importance, so that I remember to do it, and see the results. Attraction, attraction, attraction. Not to mention, being sharp right off the bat. Good body language, right from the jump. Starting off strong, in that way. Then, attraction. Through testing and flirting, in the first bit.

 

[bobbyb112]

I want to ruminate on some things I saw in the other journals.

One is from @AspiringStoic . He shared these rough stats from an advanced/expert day gamer guy. I have been thinking about my stats recently and wanted to see what "good" looks like. So thank you for sharing!
30 -35 girls spoken to in a week.
15-20 hooks and conversations.
5-8 numbers.
1-2 dates per week.
1 lay for every 4-6 dates.

A lot of these stats are consistent with what I have seen in my own efforts so far. For example, it says 1 lay for 4-6 dates. This is roughly the rate I have been going at. My rate all time is 1 out of 3, and lately (in a new city) it has been 1 out of 4. I just looked at this the other day, so it's cool seeing somebody else's numbers. I really wonder if I can improve that date-to-lay ratio. Indeed, that is what I have been working on, through these journal entries.

5-8 numbers leading to 1-2 dates. That makes sense to me. Even if a girl gives you her number, that doesn't mean she will end up going on a date. I haven't tracked it super close, but my ratio here is much higher. Usually if I have her number, there is like a 90% chance we go on the date. However, there is a reason for this. It is because I am using OLD for my dates. So after talking and proposing the date in the app, she is pretty well ready for it. Whereas, I imagine, with daygame, a girl might give you her number just to be polite, or even as a reward for your boldness, even if she doesn't want to actually go on a date necessarily. Within that, though, I'm sure there are ways to make sure the numbers you get are good. Various daygame tech there, which I haven't done a lot of, but will explore further in the future.

15-20 hooks and conversations to 5-8 numbers. This seems reasonable, since not every girl who even hooks will want to go on a date (and therefore give her number). I know it is totally different, but on the apps, there are many times when you start talking with a girl, and then she just stops responding. That is kind of the corollary here. I don't track those stats, though, because it is not worth my time, on the apps. Although, the apps should keep track of these stats and share them with guys. It would be like a Tinder dashboard! That way you can automatically track these various metrics. That would be cool. Dedicated daters such as myself would love to see this.

30-35 girls spoken to in a week to 15-20 hooks and conversations. So that's roughly speaking half of the opens turning into conversations. That seems about right, based on my limited day game approaches. Girls will often chat, but also sometimes have to keep going and won't stop. Many chats in there. When I did daygame approaches, as often as not, they would be up for a chat/hook.

30-35 girls spoken to in a week. That comes out to 5 per day. This seems doable, in a big city like NYC where the guy was from. There are enough girls around. Might take some time. But seems doable.


@bkw - In his journal, he wrote about some of the various challenges of daytime approaches, in a big city which moves fast. I want to think through for myself what I could to do make daygame work better. Thank you for the prompt!

Environment:
-- If the environment is chiller and slow-paced, then the girl might have more time to talk. Also, potentially use an indirect opener. Examples include: browsing in a clothes store, browsing slowly in a grocery store, browsing in a bookstore, walking slowly in the mall, lying on a towel on the beach, chilling in a coffee shop, waiting for a train/bus. In these places, you know you can potentially open slower, and with an indirect opener. Since she has time to talk, it isn't so make-or-break.
-- If the environment is faster paced, like a busy street, or rush hour to or from work, or she is walking fast down the street, it is more make or break. You might have to have a stronger presence, to break her out of autopilot, and out of whatever she was doing. Street stops are usually more this way, because if she is moving and walking, then by definition she is going somewhere and doing something. Another thing is approaching on less busy side streets, as opposed to the main shopping street. The main really busy street will be hard to get her to stop. There's just too much going on. Whereas on a less busy side street, it is just a little bit less hectic, and she is probably more open to chatting for a minute. Ultra-busy main streets are just too busy to stop and talk with someone, even if you wanted to. At least, it is lower percentage.

Approach Invitations:
-- The corollary for all this is, approach invitations, and spotting girls who want to or are open to being approached, can improve your opening percentage. He says that girls who are ovulating and looking for or more open to a romantic adventure will do a few things, such as show more skin, sway her hips more, walk slower, and look more vulnerable. If you can spot this, I'm betting that the open will be received better. I think Nick Krauser says this in his daygame video on youtube. If you can spot the girls looking for guys, then that helps your percentages.
-- Pre-opens: These are a category that I want to improve on, and really master. Pre-opens can get you warmer opens. They can be subtle, but I want to master this, because I feel like it can really help. But, even if you don't get them, go in anyway. I'll have to re-read the articles about these, and how to get them.

Technical Aspects:
-- Presence: In a fast-paced street stop, presence is key, because you are trying to break her out of autopilot. You have to break her out of the trance that everybody goes through in their day-to-day. One aspect of this is eye contact. Yad talks about this quite a bit. When you have a strong presence, including your eye contact, it can snap her out of her autopilot, and get her to listen. I feel like this is super important, because to get her to stop and talk, you have to have strong presence and eye contact.
-- Fast numbers: I wonder if you could do a fast approach on the street, where she is busy, so you just say give me your number and I'll call you later. I suppose this is what a lot of girls and guys use Instagram for - warming it up by presenting some self-marketing. I don't have IG, and don't want it, but I like the idea of getting a fast number, then calling and talking a little bit later. It is worth trying. This could be good for, say, you're waiting for the subway on your way into work. You don't have time to chat, but you take her number to call or talk later. You're not proposing a date later yet necessarily, but rather just saying let's talk later. I bet a certain percentage of girls would go for it.

 

[AspiringStoic]

One is from @AspiringStoic . He shared these rough stats from an advanced/expert day gamer guy. I have been thinking about my stats recently and wanted to see what "good" looks like. So thank you for sharing!
30 -35 girls spoken to in a week.
15-20 hooks and conversations.
5-8 numbers.
1-2 dates per week.
1 lay for every 4-6 dates.

Oh no. I gave this example of stats that a friend of mine had who was very very average at Game. Nothing special. Average guy, average game but with a consistent daily habit of opening 5 girls. I would not say he was an expert. The guy had not even studied too much Game beyond a pdf of some basics.

My point was that if you are an average guy with normal social skills and just put in consistent effort without worrying too much about the tiny details and just being consistent, you can probably get this kind of success.

5-8 numbers leading to 1-2 dates. That makes sense to me. Even if a girl gives you her number, that doesn't mean she will end up going on a date. I haven't tracked it super close, but my ratio here is much higher. Usually if I have her number, there is like a 90% chance we go on the date. However, there is a reason for this. It is because I am using OLD for my dates. So after talking and proposing the date in the app, she is pretty well ready for it. Whereas, I imagine, with daygame, a girl might give you her number just to be polite, or even as a reward for your boldness, even if she doesn't want to actually go on a date necessarily. Within that, though, I'm sure there are ways to make sure the numbers you get are good. Various daygame tech there, which I haven't done a lot of, but will explore further in the future.

15-20 hooks and conversations to 5-8 numbers. This seems reasonable, since not every girl who even hooks will want to go on a date (and therefore give her number). I know it is totally different, but on the apps, there are many times when you start talking with a girl, and then she just stops responding. That is kind of the corollary here. I don't track those stats, though, because it is not worth my time, on the apps. Although, the apps should keep track of these stats and share them with guys. It would be like a Tinder dashboard! That way you can automatically track these various metrics. That would be cool. Dedicated daters such as myself would love to see this.

30-35 girls spoken to in a week to 15-20 hooks and conversations. So that's roughly speaking half of the opens turning into conversations. That seems about right, based on my limited day game approaches. Girls will often chat, but also sometimes have to keep going and won't stop. Many chats in there. When I did daygame approaches, as often as not, they would be up for a chat/hook.

30-35 girls spoken to in a week. That comes out to 5 per day. This seems doable, in a big city like NYC where the guy was from. There are enough girls around. Might take some time. But seems doable.

Yup its all a funnel just like a sales funnel.

Number of approaches > Number of hooks/conversations > Number of number or social media closes > Number of girls who reply to your message > Number of dates > Number of lays

At every stage regardless of how your Game is, some girls will drop off and the funnel keeps getting narrower and narrower.

This has been my experience and the experience of guys I know in real life who have done cold approach during the day.

Oh by the way I have to clarify this. I am talking about legit COLD approach here. Meaning you spot a girl you like the look of and you just go and open. No waiting for IOIs, no only opening girls of a particular type, in a particular area, doing a particular thing which makes it more likely she has time to talk or that shows that she is already interested in you etc.

Any kind of pre-filtering or narrowing down you do will obviously impact ratios. Personally, I don't care much for that, one of my biggest desires is to be able to open/talk to any woman I feel like talking to regardless of the result. I love that feeling of freedom more than any thoughts or concerns about maintaining or improving my ratios. But that's just me.

Anyways, whenever someone consistently claims a 1:1 ratio about anything I am always very skeptical. Usually they are not telling you something and there is more to it than what they are letting on.

 

[bobbyb112]

Oh no. I gave this example of stats that a friend of mine had who was very very average at Game.

Ohh gotcha, that makes more sense. It's like a "baseline" for if you are very consistent, but are just an average guy as far as game. That's cool to see.

His consistency is inspiring!

I wonder what these funnel stats look like for intermediate/ advanced/ expert cold approach-ers. Would be cool to see. Not because I like overly-fixating on stats and percentages, but just to see how much I can improve. Also, to see which stage I need more work on the most.

---

Hector had a X post I want to ruminate on. Hector has been writing some great X content lately.

"
Online dating guy -

Pros: generally good at moving on fast and doesn’t get too hung up on things cuz of volume. gets good at texting. can hit high lay counts if he streamlines his system. great at dates.

Cons: generally dating the least hot girls of the bunch (tho looks can be quite subjective…so thats a big area of debate - but a few critical factors impact this). Can be missing a LOT of basic social skills that are skipped over when you “order dates online.” bad relationship skills. probably never was the “cool guy” and has some insecurities there

Views: tend to be a bit polarizing in his views and very hedonistic which are conditioned by his sample group
"

Since most of my activity is from OLD, I want to reflect on this.
-- Moving on fast: So true. There is one girl who I went on a first date with a few weeks ago. We didn't get together, and she keeps texting me to go out again. I'm like, girl, you had your chance, what makes you think the second date will be better? I'm moving on, lol. Because there is a high volume of new girls to go out with.
-- Gets good at texting: It depends what your definition of "good" is. I text basically only for logistics and setting up the date. On the app, I basically have a pre-set sequence that I use on every girl, to get a date. It is the same every time. I also have it saved in text-replacement in my phone settings, so I can just pop in the template with 2 taps. Easy. If he means "good" as in good at flirting, banters, and teasing through text, then I have not done that much, so I am not that good.
-- Can hit high lay counts if he streamlines his system: That's the goal! Getting dates is largely streamlined so far. Converting dates to sex is the next real stage to streamline or optimize. I am working on optimizing my logistics set up, and how I run dates, etc, to improve that part. You certainly can get a lot of reps doing this, so I believe it can indeed be optimized.
-- Great at dates: I certainly have had a lot of practice. I'm not sure how we are defining or meaning "good" here. I want to improve conversion rate on dates, so I also feel like a noob, despite having done at least a hundred dates from apps.
-- Generally dating the least hot girls of the bunch: Most of the dates are with girls who are 27-30. As far as attractiveness, most of the time they are not as attractive as girls you can meet in real life. So I would agree here.
-- Can be missing a LOT of basic social skills that are skipped over when you "order dates online": Uh oh, am I missing basic social skills? I wonder what the game tape says. I don't think I'm missing too too many. Could be. I guess you just don't know what you don't know.
-- Bad relationship skills: My longest "relationship" has been only a few months, I can't say I've even ever been in a relationship. So probably not great, by definition.
-- Probably never was the "cool guy" and has some insecurities there: I'm kind of over "being cool". I did it a bit with social circle, and being cool for its own sake is not something I care about anymore. I'm more interested in having sex with womenz. I can be cool when I want, but I prefer just doing things.
-- Tend to be a bit polarizing in his views: Anybody who stands up for something is viewed as polarizing, because most people won't stand up for anything. Now, excuse me while I go post in the Ayn Rand internet chat room.
-- Very hedonistic which are conditioned by his sample group: I wouldn't say I'm very hedonistic: I'm pretty average when it comes to hedonism. I like sex (who doesn't?), and I don't like drinking nor drugs. But I guess on the apps, the girls you do get together with tend to be those who like sex a lot. Similar with nightlife, where, Chase says, the girls who go out are the ones that like sex more. Probably same thing with the apps. So in that sense, yes, by hanging out and trying to have sex with these types of girls, I am more hedonistic. I guess the opposite of hedonism (I'll sleep with any girl who wants to) would be trying to have sex with the types of girls you like. Which requires day game. So I see what he means as far as hedonism.


My big question with this is, should I continue spending my time with OLD, for the purpose of getting extremely good on dates, and really dialing that in, or should I do another type like daygame?

I like how with OLD, I can work on specific aspects of the funnel at a time, and improve them. Getting dates is easy enough. Doing dates and sleeping with her is what I sort of have to optimize for. I sort of want to beat the video game of OLD, before giving it up and going to different types of game.

On the other hand, Hector says that day game gives you, basically, superpowers for dating, and makes you "amazing" at dates, as well as improving most everything social, as well as good relationship skills. He seems to say that day game just trains every part of your game extremely well. So, I guess, if day game helps you really improve all those skills, including dates, then maybe that is the way to go. I just want to improve my skills (and results) the most, and whichever modality does that I want to spend time on.