Old head here, What material are you guys following for pickup?

[Skills]

Well, this bring back memories hahaha

Look, being 100% honest, you closing this girl was foolsmate. You were at the right place and the right time. It’s not something to get upset about. Many men wouldn’t approach her. You did and fucked her. With little to no game but the fact you approached her and had a plan of where to go made you different.

the fact that I saw mistakes like I clearly said that Based on MY experience shouldn’t upset you. You use very little game. Good for you. Based on your report you met her and fucked her within 20 minutes of meeting her. Why would you get offended with what I posted?

Look, your response to my comment I’ve seen hundreds of times before. It speaks more about you than me. If I were you I would of ignored it and move on. I mean I’m just a dude on the internet. Who cares what I think if you’re frame is solid. But whatever.

I didn’t join here to get into a flame war with anyone. I just saw reports that I felt used little to no game. So I was curious what people here where using to pickup women.

no big deal. Like I said, I’m not here to cause trouble. Good on you for that foolsmate. Keep it up kid

This none sense...

 

[Ybatman]

Yes, you did not mean harm, i saw that, but you neg him indirectly... Not your intention... I like to point old heads here first:

The Time machine seducers

This is a phenomenon rarely discuss in the community, only some guys can tell (have to be very experience legit guys to be able to see this that ARE ACTUALLY OUT THERE GAMING)..... You have former gurus, posters, guys good with women and help and influence multiple guys get laid, for...

www.skilledseducer.com

If I negged him I apologize. It comes off automatic some times. Old habits you know.

Sorry James if that offended you

 

[Skills]

If I negged him I apologize. It comes off automatic some times. Old habits you know.

Sorry James if that offended you

new gen more sensitive you are gen x, gen z a bit more sensitive.. If they don't know you, i had the same issue, now i Hammer them they know is love... oh forgot this:

Some different tweaks for seduction in new era...

These are already discuss in the forum in other places and in my yearly reviews but it is just a bit of adjustments: - Try texting faster.- This one is HUGE, back in the day we advice to match her response time, so if she took an hour to text back you take an hour and 10 minutes at least...

www.skilledseducer.com

this one is good too, form gen x to z:

Women Today Are Less Worried About Being "Sluts", More About Being COMFORTABLE

Women now are far less worried that men won’t accept their sexuality than they were 10 years ago. Yet what’s still key to them TODAY is sexual COMFORT. Hey everyone. I hope you are all doing well. Earlier this year, a forum thread by veteran seducer Skills discussed observations about social...

www.girlschase.com

About the fools mate argument with james d for context:

Debunking Screening game - NextASF

All topics directly related to seduction, sex, and female psychology.

web.archive.org

 

[James D]

Look, your response to my comment I’ve seen hundreds of times before. It speaks more about you than me.

Seen your response 100 times too

So easy to back away in the "I didn't mean it" land when you indirectly insult.

Anyway, had you been nicer, I might have shared the secret seduction material I've been reading that led me to fuck that chick so fast

If you were a one time poster, sure, you're just a random guy on the internet.

If you'll hang around here more, tho, gotta work on your etiquette.

Being a random dude on the internet doesn't give you an excuse to be throwing indirect insults.

Anyways, yeah, seems you didn't mean any harm (probably).

Let's just wrap this up here.

Sunday today. Got some approaching to do.

Welcome to the boards, looking forward to seeing your reports.

 

[Ybatman]

Seen your response 100 times too

So easy to back away in the "I didn't mean it" land when you indirectly insult.

Anyway, had you been nicer, I might have shared the secret seduction material I've been reading that led me to fuck that chick so fast

If you were a one time poster, sure, you're just a random guy on the internet.

If you'll hang around here more, tho, gotta work on your etiquette.

Being a random dude on the internet doesn't give you an excuse to be throwing indirect insults.

Anyways, yeah, seems you didn't mean any harm (probably).

Let's just wrap this up here.

Sunday today. Got some approaching to do.

Welcome to the boards, looking forward to seeing your reports.

All good bro

 

[TwoNameGame]

When walking towards or next to a woman near a classroom door or building door, Starbucks, etc. make sure you open the door and you lets her walk in before you.

Great advice all around! Most doors at my uni are either kept open or open automatically, but I made sure to take my date through a pay where I held the door for her. I agree with your points on holding the door, as it is a habit, albeit one I haven't yet used as an opener.

 

[Will_V]

A seduction is something that basically pulls someone away from the path that they're on.
Think Odysseus and the Sirens.

The thing is so good, so enticing, so alluring, so attractive - that the person that was going one way, goes a different way - toward the thing that has captured their attention.

At first out of novelty and curiousity, but then out of want, out of hunger. Something less intellectual, and more primal and physical.

IMO, at a high level, PUA is a "seduction" - is drawing a chick into a situation where before she was not thinking about sex, much less sex with the particular PUA, and she then finds herself ass up in the back of a Hyundai Elantra.

That's what a fast seduction is. It's not that the chick likes you or doesn't like you, that you're compatible or not compatible, but it's more like putting her in a situation where she can't control herself.

• At the Gucci store after she gets her Income Tax Refund
• At a bakery with every possible sweet sugary thing available
• Hanging out with her most gossipy friend and getting the tea on everything
• Bottomless Mimosas at brunch
• stalking her Ex on social media

There's no force involved, no control, no coercion. She just can't resist it.

Never seen it described better. This is the sauce that I see missing from a lot of field reports around here.

If a dude is not embodying something that draws her in hard, something that makes everything and everyone else seem boring in comparison, but is instead just going up and asking random questions and number grabbing, the chances of it going anywhere are slim unless she really can't be arsed to go and find a dude herself.

And especially if a dude is feeling bad, anxious, tense, put upon, etc for having to approach, not only is there nothing to draw her in, she's repelled.

The most powerful asset a guy has is the way he himself views the world, how he experiences himself as he moves through it, exuding it like an electromagnetic field wherever he goes. Your world has to be a more exciting, more visceral, more present, more primal one than anything she's experienced, so that when she sees you her attention is captured and she's stirred.

One girl I was seeing who I met daygaming, whenever she came over, she'd walk through the door, turn around, and just sort of look at me slightly open mouthed, chin down, waiting. I was her connection to an experience her boring day to day life could never give her, with me she realized who she really was. The same way a movie awakens something when you watch it and you wish you could leave all the mundane bs of your life behind.

That to me is what seduction really is, it's awakening something in her that had gone to sleep when 'real life' took over.

As far as the op question, I don't consume a lot of seduction material except for girls chase, and to some extent the natural lifestyles. I'm a pretty intuitive person so as long as I understand the high level process and mistakes not to make I like to keep the rest as spontaneous as possible. I've picked up some good insight and pointers from a variety of places (for example one of the things I often reflect on and remind myself of is Mystery's gem about how frame control is everything), but I haven't gone deeply enough into anything else to say that I draw from it.

 

[Teevster]

Look, being 100% honest, you closing this girl was foolsmate. You were at the right place and the right time. It’s not something to get upset about. Many men wouldn’t approach her. You did and fucked her. With little to no game but the fact you approached her and had a plan of where to go made you different.

 

[ChrisVirtue]

So im in my 40s. I found pickup back when it first took off around 2001 ish. I was able to go out with many of the old PUA gurus. It was fun as hell. I did pickup for a good 5 years and then "retired". Moved to another country, small town, relationship and I was out of it. Life moves on and so does relationships.

Im in the US now and ran into this website while I was looking for some old school material.

I notice that most people here do direct approach, very few concepts from back in my day and I see mistake, after mistake, after mistake. Again, all based on my experience from a different time and indirect method. it just surprises me reading some Field Reports and the things some guys do who are getting lays. They dont make any sense to me.

So that is why I ask. What material or who do you read nowadays. What process do you guys follow? Im very curious

As someone who was heavily in game community from 2017-2022ish (been to countless seminars, mainly RSD but also some other coaches) I might have a helpful understanding of modern game approach.

I've begun to study some of the founders of game recently. Mainly, Mystery and Ross Jeffries.

What I realized is that most of Mystery's stuff is spot on. He created a formula for seduction that is very accurate.

That formula is still roughly what the most successful PUAs use to this day.

Which is roughly: open, attract, build comfort, pull, close

All the most successful guys use canned material at the minimum for certain milestones in the seduction process.


To my understanding, RSD beach-headed the overall community to pivot more "natural"-style game in 2012-2018 years, since they were the market leader in that time frame (and hosted the yearly world summits in Vegas and Miami that would draw in 100s of PUAs).

A lot of this teaching was designed to be more accessible towards a general consumer, and allow RSD to get more customers. I don't think this was a nefarious/manipulative intention tbh, as they definitely began to drink their own kool-aid a bit. But overall I know that RSDTyler got scared a bit of the business trajectory due to Julien's media fiasco.

A lot of what they taught was based on techniques to get "in-state" and then riding that "in-state" momentum to have more confidence and things would "just happen". Guys like RSDTodd and RSDLuke maintained a more technical approach of course.

The switch to this "natural"-style game threw out the baby with the bathwater for a lot of incoming guys into PUA and imo frames the current culture.

A lot of guys I knew from the 2018-2022 years went hard with little to no success. These are the type of guys who went out a shitload, did a lot of approaches, but never learned anything close to proper seduction. A lot of this has resulted in a community that is full of "the blind leading the blind".

Now Gen Z has taken over as the dominant young culture, so I agree with the other poster in that there has been a large fracturing of the community into a bunch of sub-cultures like:
- looksmaxxers
- statusmaxxers and moneymaxxers (andrew tate style)
- social circle/event host (michael sartain kinda bastardized a specific small niche of RSDLuke and a lot of guys are running this game)
- social media maxxers
- cringy watered down daygame "get the number and run"
- a lot of guys ONLY do dating apps, and have created nice systems to have consistent lays (with subpar girls)
- as I mentioned earlier "natural"-style guys who just try to get in-state but don't have any understanding of basic shit like getting the girl to chase/invest, compliance testing, aggressive leading & venue-changing, sexual framing, and pulling for sex. They more run a type of game that involves shitty opens, not much confidence/exuding of sexual energy, don't move the set at all. This the type of guys that would rather talk about their shitty game than open pull and fuck.

Overall the actual deep truths/secrets of seduction are not well known at all any more. I think online game and social media in general has fucked up a lot of guys' dopamine systems, and a lot of pua "leaders" have terrible game themselves.

So yeah not sure how it was in 2002, but overall there are very few skilled seducers in what's left of the communities. Most guys basically do ANYTHING except learn a high-success rate Mystery style routine stack (that you came up with yourself through field testing) with modern contextual updates.


FWIW I think the optimal approach is to understand + practice a Mystery style foundation with your own spin on the routines, get consistent at opening, building attraction, pulling and closing, and carry that social momentum into hosting events, creating status, and growing social media in a certain vertical that plays well into your social life (moreso what RSDLuke preaches)

 

[Jan]

What even is seduction? From the latin (seducer) which breaks down to se and duc - aside and leading - leading aside.

A seduction is something that basically pulls someone away from the path that they're on.
Think Odysseus and the Sirens.

The thing is so good, so enticing, so alluring, so attractive - that the person that was going one way, goes a different way - toward the thing that has captured their attention.

At first out of novelty and curiousity, but then out of want, out of hunger. Something less intellectual, and more primal and physical.

IMO, at a high level, PUA is a "seduction" - is drawing a chick into a situation where before she was not thinking about sex, much less sex with the particular PUA, and she then finds herself ass up in the back of a Hyundai Elantra.

That's what a fast seduction is. It's not that the chick likes you or doesn't like you, that you're compatible or not compatible, but it's more like putting her in a situation where she can't control herself.

There's no force involved, no control, no coercion. She just can't resist it.

PUA was about seduction. It was about offering a lot of "chick crack" in terms of the value she would get from interacting with a PUA. It was about bringing her through those emotional stages, and giving her more "emotional reasons" to go forward. Never pushing her into it, but her pulling herself in.

She was exposed, then enticed, but to get more of those addictive emotions, she'd have to give up something, she'd have to play along, and before she knew it she was doing the walk of shame the next morning. (or done properly, she'd be happy and excited)

This is the best definition and description of seduction I have ever seen. It describes beautifully the experience she is having by being seduced.

You are very correct to distinguish it from LMS where she is drowned to men for reasons OTHER than the experience of seduction. You can get laid because you have lots of money, but you will get laid because she wants the money. You can get laid because you have looks, but you will get laid because she wants a boost to her self-esteem by laying a highly attractive guy. You can get laid because of status, but you will get laid because she wants to benefit from your status.

So if a man is only interested in getting laid by any means, it's fine to rely on these. But yeah, it's not really seduction.

"putting her in a situation where she can't control herself." - this is probably the most important part. If you are master seducer, it doesn't matter if you are handsome, rich and important because by being under the spelll of seduction, she wouldn't even be thinking of any of these. Exactly the opposite should be happening. All these ego thoughts would dissappear from her head, by seducing her, you are communicating with her subconsious mind which is taking over control and you are pulling her away from all handsome, rich and important men around.

I actually had an experience of being seduced where I experienced the "putting her in a situation where she can't control herself." as well as 'A seduction is something that basically pulls someone away from the path that they're on.'

I was in Thailand on vacations, out in a night club, little drunk trying to get laid. As you probably know Thailand is full of prostitutes targeting Western males. You get approached every day by dozens of them, just by walking down the streets. At that time of my life I was on the 'PATH OF NOT PAYING FOR SEX'. I had never been with a prostitute before that night and I never intended to pay for one. That was my conscious decision.

One evening, I'm dancing alone in a busy nightclub and all of a sudden... BOOM! This huge titties, little covering Thai chick appears just in front of me, smiling seductively. Frankly speaking, I didn't expect her to be a prostitute. Contrary to Thailand, in most part of Europe it's uncommon to be approached by prostitutes in dance clubs. If you go to a club, you expect to meet regular girls there. So there she is, super sexy girl dancing with me seductively. Long story short, we started talking and at some point in the conversation she tells me we can go to my place but I will have to pay.

And here is the interesting thing. Even though I was on a path of never paying for a prostitue I agreed to go with her BECAUSE I COULDN'T CONTROL MYSELF. I remember this decision being somehow automatic even thought on several occasions in the past, I found myself in a similar situation where I was offered a similar choice. But this time was different. SHE PULLED ME AWAY FROM THE PATH I WAS ON AND I COULDN'T CONTROL MYSELF.

I think this is the real seduction. So someone who wants to master this skill should aim to create an experience like this. Create an experience where you communicate with her subconsious mind and override the consious mind.

I remember what attracted me to seduction when I first ever in my life heard about it. It was some of the David DeAngelo's book or materials. In my mind, he offered to teach magic. He offered to teach magic spells where regardless of your LMS you could lay any woman because the spell is so effective that she can't control herself.

I think the world has lost BELIEF that this spell is real. It was discounted and ridiciouled over and over again. The spell was killed by rational mind. People could find dozens of reasons to 'prove' it didn't work even though the only reason it didn't work for them is that they were shitty magicians. So they gave up on magic and moved to material world crutches which help them to attract and lay women (LMS). And here we are now.

hey @West_Indian_Archie sideways questions... I have seen recently that @Chase posted in one of his most recent articles, a course recommendation (also backed by @Teevster ) an old school, speed seduction. Are you familiar with it, is this something which resonates with you as the way of the true seduction from the old days?

Dave Riker - Speed Seduction Language & Conversation Course

daveriker.com

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

hey @West_Indian_Archie sideways questions... I have seen recently that @Chase posted in one of his most recent articles, a course recommendation (also backed by @Teevster ) an old school, speed seduction. Are you familiar with it, is this something which resonates with you as the way of the true seduction from the old days?

Dave Riker - Speed Seduction Language & Conversation Course

daveriker.com

I remember seeing it, but I don't think I had the extra money to buy it. Riker definitely got a lot of love in Style's book.

I like the ideas of NLP/Speed Seduction - but my dabbling in those things were minimal and basic.

The one thing I really took from that era in PUA was to make my language graphic and sensory and sensual. And that works gangbusters for me...but it also fits my style/outlook.

In terms of embedding commands or any sort of "mind control" - I don't think of PUA that way, and personally would not want to do that.

Again, I'm putting a little kid in front of a marshmallow and saying don't eat it until I get back.

I don't need to "plant" anything - my belief is that she already has natural urges, she already wants to do X,Y,Z - I just need to make it easy for her to do so. I need to unlock the cage, pull open the door...the tigress will come out on her own.

The goal is make HER be the aggressor, the one who's taking action, who's escalating.

You can bang a girl by entirely leading her, making all of the decisions, putting her into situations where she complies. And she'll be totally fine with being totally submissive the entire way.

I just don't want that.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

FWIW I think the optimal approach is to understand + practice a Mystery style foundation with your own spin on the routines, get consistent at opening, building attraction, pulling and closing, and carry that social momentum into hosting events, creating status, and growing social media in a certain vertical that plays well into your social life (moreso what RSDLuke preaches)

Totally agree with all of this.

What I'd add on is that there are lessons to be learned from the old school

1. You don't need therapy - You can be messed up emotionally to the point that you should go to therapy - but still bag a ton of chicks. The younger generation is much more aware of their need for counseling - but you don't need to be Mr. Rogers or attain enlightment to get laid...
   1. If you read 9 Ball - Jeffy - got way better and hotter chicks when he didn't resolve his child hood issues with his father.
   2. Style ran through a lot broads before he got married and had a kid - but the LTRs didn't last, because he didn't resolve his issues with his parents
2. Law of Emotional Transferrence - basically the thing that Tyler figured out
   1. Getting in state and maintaining state - are useful tools for pick up
   2. Self amusement is part of generating state.
   3. Is getting into state easier than having some personal stories? Sometimes, sometimes no.
3. Social Lifestyle Design is a good end goal - some guys want to play the shadows, snipers and they don't see building a social circle as an easier way to bag more/hotter girls.
   1. Mystery talked about it with time bridges - girls of tonight, come out tomorrow, Girls of last week, get invited this week. Everyone you met this month comes out for a BBQ
   2. Luke - use other people to find you what you want. Good guy friends matter
4. Looks, Money, Status enhances results but can also hinder results. They should not be neglected, but the nexus netween bagging chicks in general, and looks/money/status can correlate.
5. The Red Pill 1.0 - Women have their own wants/needs/desires - and they might conflict with your own
   1. Tyler talked about this in the secret society
   2. According to The Game, Mys couldn't handle his "bro" and his "ex" hooking up.