First 90 Days Retention issues

[Bismarck]

Last year I slept with 12 new girls.

Some of you can get to that number in one or two months. Still, in my defense, there are multiple demands on my time, ranging from a full-time job through part-time study, including a part-time job and until recently a business (I've frozen my stake and stepped back for the moment, but it's still there).

Out of those 12, two were sweepers, to use hoe_math's terminology, but pretty much all the rest were sleepers/keepers. Meaning, the remaining 10 were sufficiently attractive that I would have liked to keep them around, in some capacity.

If we discard the sweepers, here is what happened with the remainder:

1. Italian girl 1 bang sesh (sex game not on point) then on 2nd meet (at mine) she said she had the period and "wanted to talk" and I froze her out
2. Ukrainian woman total of 3 bang sessions (she lives in a neighboring country and when she suggested I visit her a 2nd time, I told her I would "if she paid for my travel." She ghosted) - sex game was better with this one
3. Greek girl 1 bang sesh (sex game better but still didn't make her cum) - messed up follow-up texting assumed she'd be down for second meet instead of starting from scratch/went for close too soon, but she was only staying in my city for a few more weeks then left back to Greece
4. Italian girl 1 bang sesh (sex game was better but not perfect) messed up with texting she shit-tested when I said I enjoyed the night before "my company or the sex?" and I didn't reply then it fizzled out
5. Canadian tourist woman 2 bang seshes then she left
6. Chinese expatriate girl 1 bang sesh (I porked her while on holiday abroad, sex was satisfactory she was on period soiled the sheets) still she didn't want to smash the next day but I was leaving the day after so that was that
7. Colombian girl 1 bang sesh - best sex game of the year, I fucked her raw for 2 straight hours, she slept over, we fucked during the night and the next morning, but I left that day. Looking back, I had had a perfect diet all week, I didn't eat one inch of junk, almost zero alcohol, and, crucially, to improve blood flow, before the sex on the night that afternoon/evening I'd been dancing with her for hours. I strongly suspect this led to better ejac control later
8. Italian girl 3 bang seshes - first sesh sex was poor, second was superior, but on third came inside her as condom slipped off then the day after pill made her feel like shit and it ended. Text game was ace throughout (thx DWW for the support)
9. American tourist girl 1 bang sesh - raw and she was a bombshell, but she left the next day
10. Russian babe from house party - 2 bang seshes, first sesh game wasn't the best but 2nd I kept going and she was the one to say she wanted me to cum, but then she sent a long text saying she didn't want to see me anymore. Text game was solid

There is a 13th girl I was also porking, a Columbian, whom I'd first closed in 2023. We fucked a total of 3 times last year. She started feeling insecure when I rescheduled a meet because I was getting STD checked in late July (I didn't tell her this, but also didn't want to spread anything to her. She must have become suspicious that I was seeing other girls). The nail on the coffin was when I didn't text her to confirm another meet in September, only 10 minutes after our scheduled meet time, so she ghosted and only told me the next morning that she thought it wouldn't go down.

So far in 2025 I've already lost the 22-year-old babe to poor follow-up texting (minor mistakes, but sufficient to tank it as this is a hotter girl who undoubtedly has no shortage of dudes pining for her chocha).

Now the 24-year-old I'm suspecting is ghosting me (we've been together three different times, and sex game was good on first night (came fast (and told her it was "her fault") but then recharged and made her cum second time), then on second night I also came pretty fast (and I said it was "embarrassing") but I didn't make her cum (she said she's on anti-anxiety medication that makes it hard for her to cum), and on third night I made her cum but I came first and apologized. Crucially though, I slept at hers and in the middle of the night she said she didn't want to fuck, and same thing in the morning (this never happened to me in 36 years on this planet). Now she's not answering text (left me on read).

I've already opened a tab with Skills's thread and Chase's over on the Sex board. I already do the eye contact thing with them. Will see about the toys.

I want to know: is it a faux pas to cum before the girl?

Is it always the case that the man must pull out, finger her, tease her, maybe muffdive her (risky if you don't trust that she's clean...), go back in, come back out, etc. and ensure that she cums first before you do?

For blood flow I'm already working on getting back into cardio (did a little sprint last Sunday and some jump rope) but it's still a bumpy start due to low back flare ups, meaning I can get there but I need to go in baby steps (5 mins, then 6, then 7, then 8, then 9, then 10 mins, etc. same for the jump rope) I will also try swimming again (same thing though will have to start with like 5 laps, then 6, etc.).

ChatGPT told me that all of that can improve blood flow and thus make it easier to hold on before ejaculating. I don't think that I've made the 24-year-old think of herself as "just a bang" which the Russian probably felt (thanks for the advice Kvothe).

 

[Skills]

Bismark you slept with 12 girls, huge improvement, taking into account school, work and all that... Why do you think you are losing these girls, it seems to me that you are not just balancing the % needed more for bf potential... coming across too much of "just want sex" nothing else... in the subcommunications, and some were a bit of sexual issues and uncalibration misssteps (like you telling the girl to pay for trip lol).... have you field tested talking during sex with this one... It seems it has in this case no much to do with the 3 fuck rule, but things you are doing that are causing either turn offs or auto rejections....

 

[StrayDog]

is it a faux pas to cum before the girl?

I agree with skills on the overall assessment here.


In terms of cumming before girl I think it's nuanced. Overall I would aim to not, but also there are women who are tricky to make cum, and also you can't always control your physiology.

Sometimes I unfortunately have to cum early in, and holding back effects my stroke game. Like I can only get three strokes at a time before strong urge to cum. But I also can often keep going after cumming, or if I need a small break second round I can last pretty much forever.

If I can't help it and have to cum I just play it off like "well it happens". And will either keep pleasuring her. or chill for a moment before round two where I pound her to oblivion and beyond.

I wouldn't recommend apologizing though. Play it off like no big deal "it happens" (shrug). Or be like, "don't worry you'll get some round two" (shrug).

or just eat her pussy a bit until you ready to go again.

Apologizing or making it a bigger thing sends wrong message.

Basically what is most important is that you two are having a chill fun time together. Orgasms are just icining on top

But yeah any way. Seems like retention is mostly other issues. Although 'meh'.sex can definitely contribute to low retention sometimes. Especially for first lay.

 

[KJ Francis]

Kind of related to the bf potential part - do you spend much time on deep diving before the lay? Or post-lay pillow talk. I know Skills doesn't deep dive. Maybe the 3 bounce achieves a similar thing (and sometimes he does a second date with another 3... so that's a 6 location time distortion). But the research Chase has cited on deep diving and Dale Carnegie's How to Make Friends and Influence People (a classic, also referenced by Chase/Ricardus) is all about creating the girl's feeling of connection to you. The more you feel someone understands you (especially deep motivations), the more connected you feel to them. They will barely even realize that they know nothing about you, and still feel like you've known each other forever. It's a real good hack for comfort/trust and overall bonding.

My retention's typically been really good (stats here). I must admit part of it may be from doing mostly online (pool of mids), which can also cause a relatively larger SMV disparity, making me more "rare" in terms of her options.

But my other retention technique is also science-based and very potent: oxytocin. Literally the bonding hormone. Chemical retention in a bottle. My secret weapon is the cuddle. POB once told me he purposefully does not cuddle and will get up off the bed and sit in a chair or something as to not give the girl the wrong idea. But I think he has the opposite problem of too much bf potential and is fending off their LTR advances with a flaming torch. Personally I will go all in on it. Like even during early foreplay when our clothes are still on, I will lift both our shirts and get our stomachs pressed together. After sex I will do the full spoon or even pull her on top of me and massage her back with our full torsos pressed together.

Even the "bad girls" really like the cuddle. Rough sex has to come first though (60 Years of Challenge: sex before affection). But they are all starved for a snuggle. Even the kinky girls with tattoos and history of partying or trouble with the law, etc. And not even in the BDSM "aftercare" context. Active listening + cuddle = oxytocin overload = bond/retention.

 

[Bismarck]

@Skills,

Thanks for your thoughts man.

Yeah, telling the Ukrainian to pay for my trip was probably unnecessary (though, in my defense, an American girl paid for me to visit her in Ireland some years ago (like half my costs, IIRC)).

I already talk during sex but it's nothing scripted. Gonna check out Daniel Rose Sex God Method as you recommended in your other thread and check out this one you're linking here.

@StrayDog,

Thanks for getting back to me, I appreciate it.

I hear you loud and clear on not cumming first, and will make it a mission from here on out to hold off from cumming for as long as possible and to do everything within my powers to make a girl cum first, before shooting my load.

Yeah apologizing was probably taking the whole politeness thing a bit too far (later in that session I told her I "felt bad" because she hadn't cum yet, and that's when we worked on getting her to cum). I suspect it is linked to her refusal to give me her twat in the later that night as we slept together or the following morning. As stated, this has never happened to me in 36 years on this Earth.

I feel like quality sex just makes our lives as lovers much easier to handle, since girls invest more in meeting us again. Meh sex lends itself to you having to put more effort to get repeat action than you otherwise would have to, if she doesn't start requesting more boyfriend-girlfriend'y things to make up for the lack of great sex.

@KJ Francis,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Yeah, I do the cuddling and pillow talk. Will steal the massage with her torso on mine though, that's something I haven't done before

And will try to eke out those deeper motivations from deep diving. That's also a good shout.

 

[StrayDog]

I hear you loud and clear on not cumming first, and will make it a mission from here on out to hold off from cumming for as long as possible and to do everything within my powers to make a girl cum first, before shooting my load.

honestly Bismarck, this isn't quite what I was saying.

I was moreso saying that it doesn't exactly matter if you cum first, but instead what feels you give her.

When sex gets too orgasm centric it can become performative, instead of just natural.

Woman or strange creatures. Can have really mediocre sex and she comes back for more. Can have really great sex and she ghosts.

This isn't to say that we shouldn't focus on making the sex as great as possible. But just to say what is most important is the feels around the sex.

Personally when I'm fucking a woman for the. first time I'm not really concerned with who comes first. If I make her come, that's great. But it's not really something I'm focused on. I'm more focused on just having a fun chill experience with her.

If I happen to accidentally come soon into the the sex. I just play it off like no big deal. I keep pleasuring her, She'll get some later.

I've had sex with women that lasted an embarrassingly short amount of time. And she kept coming back for more and more afterward.

So what I was saying was, yes the aim is to dick her down good, but don't get too caught up on who's cumming when. Just fuck around, have a good time, keep the fun vibes. That's what's important over orgasms.

otherwise orgasms are a great BONUS

 

[OldGuy]

4. No reply to shit-test was death. Surely you could come up with something!
24 year-old It sounds like I don't want to fuck was ASD for I want to fuck. (I assume these were not in response to you attempting).

 

[Bismarck]

Yeah, I continued texting her but on a separate thread, and ignored her blunt question. Skills already wrote that I should have said "both" straight away. She was hot, young, and cute enough face-wise, however when I fucked her she stank and that's what made me suspect she'd given me and STD (I went raw) but then I found out she was clean as a whistle (go figure). Maybe a bit outside of my comfort zone as she's the girl I've porked with the most body ink to date.

They were in fact in response to me attempting, yes! That's what I mean when I say it was the first time it's ever happened to me. The thing is, like StrayDog was saying, you gotta shrug it off confidently even if you jizz before her because if you don't seem confident about your abilities in the sack, she'll take your word for it and not value your performance as highly. It's about the "feels" as he was saying. Hence her rejecting my shlong twice in a row!

 

[Atlas IV]

Personally when I'm fucking a woman for the. first time I'm not really concerned with who comes first. If I make her come, that's great. But it's not really something I'm focused on. I'm more focused on just having a fun chill experience with her.

Agreed 100% with @StrayDog on this.

Actually I'm pretty sure Chase said in a GC article somewhere that making a girl cum too much on the first date can actually be a bad thing for retention as:
1. it can increase her buyer's remorse (emotions crashing after the peak of euphoria) and
2. it sets a high standard for future encounters (you'd better be sure you can make her cum like that every time)

Whereas if you just focus on ensuring that the first encounter sex is a good fun experience, but not necessarily mind-blowing, maybe you even leave her wanting more, then she feels like she hasn't quite explored everything with you yet. For retention, I think that's a better position to be in than having given her the ultimate experience already (because then what else does she have to look forward to with you?)

Anyway, for someone with a more-than-full-time schedule those numbers are great. My hunch is that @Skills is right about calibrating your BF potential to hit the sweet spot of attainability. It's something I'm also dealing with right now (can commiserate because my retention is terrible too lol). I think, aside from correctly handling the boyfriend disqualification, it's alluded through a combination of things - your vibe, fundamentals, verbal game, texting, AND sex, which is why I think some guys have more retention issues than others and it's such a tricky thing to get right.

Also it seems like you're gaming a variety of international girls, who are naturally going to be more transient and difficult to pin down for anything regular. This is an added challenge for retention because they might not see any BF potential with you (like Skills says, it needs to hit a balance).

 

[Skills]

Kind of related to the bf potential part - do you spend much time on deep diving before the lay? Or post-lay pillow talk. I know Skills doesn't deep dive. Maybe the 3 bounce achieves a similar thing (and sometimes he does a second date with another 3... so that's a 6 location time distortion). But the research Chase has cited on deep diving and Dale Carnegie's How to Make Friends and Influence People (a classic, also referenced by Chase/Ricardus) is all about creating the girl's feeling of connection to you. The more you feel someone understands you (especially deep motivations), the more connected you feel to them. They will barely even realize that they know nothing about you, and still feel like you've known each other forever. It's a real good hack for comfort/trust and overall bonding.

^ i do deep dive but not chase style of deep diving i do a SEXUAL or past relationship style deep dive vs chase style of deep dive....

 

[Bismarck]

Agreed 100% with @StrayDog on this.

Actually I'm pretty sure Chase said in a GC article somewhere that making a girl cum too much on the first date can actually be a bad thing for retention as:
1. it can increase her buyer's remorse (emotions crashing after the peak of euphoria) and
2. it sets a high standard for future encounters (you'd better be sure you can make her cum like that every time)

Whereas if you just focus on ensuring that the first encounter sex is a good fun experience, but not necessarily mind-blowing, maybe you even leave her wanting more, then she feels like she hasn't quite explored everything with you yet. For retention, I think that's a better position to be in than having given her the ultimate experience already (because then what else does she have to look forward to with you?)

Yeah I may have shot myself in the foot with this re. the 24-y-o since the first time we were together I made her cum FML.

Thanks for your insights dude.

I agree that the causes of retention issues are a difficult thing to pin down and even troubleshoot.

 

[KJ Francis]

^ i do deep dive but not chase style of deep diving i do a SEXUAL or past relationship style deep dive vs chase style of deep dive....

oh right I forgot, the history of cheating! and another Dale Carnegie mention

I agree that the causes of retention issues are a difficult thing to pin down and even troubleshoot.

yeah it's nuanced for sure, and can be frustrating especially when you have laid the girl and know she likes you. and if you are communicating over text and can't get her in person for a conversation, what she says may not even be the real issue and you can't really get to the root of it without being face to face.

but yeah if she's non-compliant, and you know it's not a value issue (fundamentals) and set aside sex quality value for now, then I guess it comes down to attainability and similarity. I think you're studying business so I will call it "fungible pussy syndrome", meaning an identical, interchangeable commodity. So the you get the whole "do you like me for me or just for sex". It reminded me of this article and it's funny I just noticed in there he uses the same word "commodity".

Make a Girl Feel Special: Seduction's Silver Bullet

When I first decided to start tackling women and dating as a skill set to methodically improve at the end of 2004, I went into it with three distinct aims: Be a seductive, charming bad boy, Constantly test the limits and push to improve, and Make women feel special. I didn't know exactly what I...

www.girlschase.com

I think Ricardus too once told me buyer's remorse kind of comes down to qualification. So if your LTR attainability is low, she might just need to feel like there is something deeper about her personality and qualities you like (and can mirror back to her a bit with attitude similarity). then you're more attainable because she feels like she has a shot with you as more than a fuck toy.

 

[KJ Francis]

Daniel Rose Sex God Method

Here's some more - post #30

Sex Manuals

No homo but this guy got that sexy voice too that girls go nuts for , especially in the bedroom

www.skilledseducer.com