Return to Game

[topcat]

I also have no patience or containment - I escalate very quickly - Handhold followed by kiss - sometimes I just go straight in - I had better results when I showed restraint - I just can't be asked to wait anymore - I go on dates now with the mentality of just kissing her as soon as - I know it's hurting my results

Sounds like you’re good on the influence and immersion fronts then.

This gives me reason to pause. You should be showing restraint. You’re giving too much validation without getting anything back. Might work once she’s back at yours, but in public? You gotta hold back man, it’s telegraphing thirst and killing any intrigue you’ve built. You know this though.

 

[Skills]

So I've written a lot about what I've done but not so much about how I've done it.

My game is predicated on Gunwitch 3 Key's, Bacchus opening game, and Teev's sexual game. I establish non-judgmental frames from the off and use verbal influence to intrigue, stimulate and arouse.

I have had uber-hot girls compliment me on my approach, compliment my vibe, compliment me on my behaviours, tell me how much they enjoyed my approach and be completely immersed during the interaction. But then go cold or flake over the phone. I lose most girls over the phone which seems consistent across the board. More than anything it's highlighted to me how much availability is also a factor.

So work on your texting...phone game, and/or find a way for them to sleep over and take them for breakfast.

 

[hey_lover]

Competition/Environment/SMV/Fundamentals/Solutions
The competition here is fierce. You have men from all over the world who look, dress and sound the part. I leave my house and I see B-list celebs, Champions League winners and former world boxing champs walking around. Going to the gym, dressing well and having good chat is the bare minimum. The realisation I have is that I need to go to extreme solutions to further eke out improvements in my SMV.

Gym
I was previously a PT and maxed out my natural potential years ago. Unfortunately, the gym I frequent, every man and woman is Insta buff and juiced to the gills. It's not even a Muscle Works, it's my fucking local PureGym. You've got Chinese dudes who are bulky and Chinese chicks with booties, let alone the races that are traditionally muscular and aesthetically pleasing. If you can't beat them, join them. So I started a SARM cycle last year and did a second this year. I've added 10kg of weight and around 5kg of muscle since. My aim is to add another 5-10kg of weight and really hone in on the fitness model look. I don't want my physique to just look good, I want it to look fit for a magazine cover.

Grooming
I've got an extensive skincare routine of sunscreen, hyaluronic acid and tretinoin. Not sure what else I can add to that.
Hairline has been receding for a few years now. Just holding on at this stage and hoping the hair loss has stabilised.
I've had my teeth whitened a few times in the past but tea and coffee really do a number on them. Will get a custom made dental tray and whitening gel in a week or so.

Fashion
Have loads of stylish, smart and elegant items. I usually use Pinterest for ideas on combinations.

Behaviour/Personality
I'm a functioning introvert but I still avoid interactions that I don't think I will get massive value from. My colleague at work is the first new guy I've genuinely liked in years. He is a social butterfly who talks to everyone. I was thinking of enrolling in Charisma University as I get a lot of value from their free content.

Changing Location
I read a brilliant post a while back which said that men are always focused on upward mobility i.e. improving themselves rather than lateral mobility i.e. changing their environment. If I want a hot gym-going blonde as my girlfriend then perhaps I should move to Scandinavia where there will be an abundance of blondes and fewer brown guys. I've recently started looking into career paths that allow me to work remotely or work for an international company so that I can relocate to a place where there are more blondes and fewer people like me. As extreme a solution as it sounds, it actually makes logical sense. Interestingly, a lot of the London day gamers end up doing just that. Travelling to Europe to meet women.

Surgery
This is super extreme but just putting it out there. I'm short and unfortunately, girls do judge me negatively. Limb lengthening is now an option at an exorbitant cost.

I also carry a lot of fat on my cheeks, and I'm considering buccal fat surgery. This will make the cheekbones prominent as well as the jawline, thus increasing my facial aesthetics. Before, someone says lose weight. I'm looking to add significant mass to my frame so that's not an option in the mid-term.

Sugar Daddy/Money
Another extreme solution. Focus completely on making money, increasing my career prospects and then just sugar daddy girls. I used a sugar daddy website for one week in the past where I slept with a girl without paying and would have had a second if her crazy ex didn't turn up at her doorstep while I had popped out to get alcohol. It wasn't so much salt daddying as we didn't discuss money at all and they never once asked for anything. Anyway, I saw how hot the girls were and how much they chased me as the prize. I am not completely against using my wallet to entice girls to meet me and then using my game to secure them as long-term options, and even providing for them. Obviously, I would need a lot of money to facilitate this. This is what a lot of rich wealthy guys do.

 

[hey_lover]

Sounds like you’re good on the influence and immersion fronts then.

This gives me reason to pause. You should be showing restraint. You’re giving too much validation without getting anything back. Might work once she’s back at yours, but in public? You gotta hold back man, it’s telegraphing thirst and killing any intrigue you’ve built. You know this though.

You're right.

I've got dating fatigue. I've sat across the table pretending to be interested in the girl so many times now (hundreds of times), I just can't be bothered to take my time and hold back anymore. I'm just like, shut the fuck up and let me kiss you. I'm definitely screening out the girls who I could have fucked if I had just shown some restraint. My date to lay was much higher in the past.

 

[Bismarck]

Great to see you've been active despite the plandemic hey_lover!

Props on putting in the effort to approach sexy baes - that's more than I've been doing. Have caught more than one bae giving me the mesmer eyes auf der strasse and yet haven't approached a girl since I fucked a Russian fresh off the square in 10 minutes at 8:30am back in November. Been doing social circle mostly. Actually approached a Belgian at the train station indirect later that month.

Regarding your process, something seems incongruent - you say you follow indirect practice (Gun, Bacc, Teev) and yet you show no containment, kino escalate fast, and, to top it all off, make out with the girl before isolation logistics. Pecking her might be acceptable at the end of a first date where it is clear bringing her home will not lead to sex because the appropriate frames haven't been set in anticipation of a second, but even then the act of validating her in this way can kill intrigue.

Also, as for your thoughts on your target audience, I would focus more on college students if you want more sex-positive, less gamey, hotter chicks.

 

[topcat]

Competition/Environment/SMV/Fundamentals/Solutions
The competition here is fierce. You have men from all over the world who look, dress and sound the part. I leave my house and I see B-list celebs, Champions League winners and former world boxing champs walking around. Going to the gym, dressing well and having good chat is the bare minimum. The realisation I have is that I need to go to extreme solutions to further eke out improvements in my SMV.

Gym
I was previously a PT and maxed out my natural potential years ago. Unfortunately, the gym I frequent, every man and woman is Insta buff and juiced to the gills. It's not even a Muscle Works, it's my fucking local PureGym. You've got Chinese dudes who are bulky and Chinese chicks with booties, let alone the races that are traditionally muscular and aesthetically pleasing. If you can't beat them, join them. So I started a SARM cycle last year and did a second this year. I've added 10kg of weight and around 5kg of muscle since. My aim is to add another 5-10kg of weight and really hone in on the fitness model look. I don't want my physique to just look good, I want it to look fit for a magazine cover.

Grooming
I've got an extensive skincare routine of sunscreen, hyaluronic acid and tretinoin. Not sure what else I can add to that.
Hairline has been receding for a few years now. Just holding on at this stage and hoping the hair loss has stabilised.
I've had my teeth whitened a few times in the past but tea and coffee really do a number on them. Will get a custom made dental tray and whitening gel in a week or so.

Fashion
Have loads of stylish, smart and elegant items. I usually use Pinterest for ideas on combinations.

Behaviour/Personality
I'm a functioning introvert but I still avoid interactions that I don't think I will get massive value from. My colleague at work is the first new guy I've genuinely liked in years. He is a social butterfly who talks to everyone. I was thinking of enrolling in Charisma University as I get a lot of value from their free content.

Changing Location
I read a brilliant post a while back which said that men are always focused on upward mobility i.e. improving themselves rather than lateral mobility i.e. changing their environment. If I want a hot gym-going blonde as my girlfriend then perhaps I should move to Scandinavia where there will be an abundance of blondes and fewer brown guys. I've recently started looking into career paths that allow me to work remotely or work for an international company so that I can relocate to a place where there are more blondes and fewer people like me. As extreme a solution as it sounds, it actually makes logical sense. Interestingly, a lot of the London day gamers end up doing just that. Travelling to Europe to meet women.

Surgery
This is super extreme but just putting it out there. I'm short and unfortunately, girls do judge me negatively. Limb lengthening is now an option at an exorbitant cost.

I also carry a lot of fat on my cheeks, and I'm considering buccal fat surgery. This will make the cheekbones prominent as well as the jawline, thus increasing my facial aesthetics. Before, someone says lose weight. I'm looking to add significant mass to my frame so that's not an option in the mid-term.

Sugar Daddy/Money
Another extreme solution. Focus completely on making money, increasing my career prospects and then just sugar daddy girls. I used a sugar daddy website for one week in the past where I slept with a girl without paying and would have had a second if her crazy ex didn't turn up at her doorstep while I had popped out to get alcohol. It wasn't so much salt daddying as we didn't discuss money at all and they never once asked for anything. Anyway, I saw how hot the girls were and how much they chased me as the prize. I am not completely against using my wallet to entice girls to meet me and then using my game to secure them as long-term options, and even providing for them. Obviously, I would need a lot of money to facilitate this. This is what a lot of rich wealthy guys do.

yooooo!

hold your horses man. Plastic surgery? Sugar daddying? Test? Do you really need all of this to get laid or a blonde gf? I swear you don’t. Your height don’t matter either. Jesus Christ. You’re seriously considering going to this length for a girl who’s pubes grow out naturally yellow???
Something tells me your self esteem needs a tune up, not your body.
This is borderline bimbo thinking. No disrespect.

Imagine you go through all of that and you still get rejected? Bruv imma say it now, you’re looking in the wrong direction.

 

[hey_lover]

So work on your texting...phone game, and/or find a way for them to sleep over and take them for breakfast.

Any you would recommend? I bought a texting product from Matt Artisan a couple weeks back. Going through it at the moment.

 

[hey_lover]

yooooo!

hold your horses man. Plastic surgery? Sugar daddying? Test? Do you really need all of this to get laid or a blonde gf? I swear you don’t. Your height don’t matter either. Jesus Christ. You’re seriously considering going to this length for a girl who’s pubes grow out naturally yellow???
Something tells me your self esteem needs a tune up, not your body.
This is borderline bimbo thinking. No disrespect.

Imagine you go through all of that and you still get rejected? Bruv imma say it now, you’re looking in the wrong direction.

Lmao. I'm just thinking out load of ways to increase SMV.

 

[topcat]

Lmao. I'm just thinking out load of ways to increase SMV.

Maybe.

But nonetheless this is the way ugly girls go about raising their SMV. This is legit how my female cousins talk amongst themselves at family gatherings..

Focus on your mind bro, your confidence, what you project into the world. Overcome your obstacles without buying your way out of them. Your SMV flows from here. Cars, money, muscles, physical features, these are just signals of a mans substance (mental constitution, willpower, intelligence etc.). Women use them as a route to a “high value man” but it’s just a gamble - they’re easily faked.

I’m going off, I know, but something about men considering plastic surgery… ffs.

Hope you figure it out man.

 

[Skills]

Any you would recommend? I bought a texting product from Matt Artisan a couple weeks back. Going through it at the moment.

Only people I recommend is skills(look at the texting post in archives)or the pwf dude, close second the dude that joined Pancakemouse or whatever his name is and/or playing with fire everything else I seen is pupu....

 

[Alpha13SC]

Competition/Environment/SMV/Fundamentals/Solutions
The competition here is fierce. You have men from all over the world who look, dress and sound the part. I leave my house and I see B-list celebs, Champions League winners and former world boxing champs walking around. Going to the gym, dressing well and having good chat is the bare minimum. The realisation I have is that I need to go to extreme solutions to further eke out improvements in my SMV.

Gym
I was previously a PT and maxed out my natural potential years ago. Unfortunately, the gym I frequent, every man and woman is Insta buff and juiced to the gills. It's not even a Muscle Works, it's my fucking local PureGym. You've got Chinese dudes who are bulky and Chinese chicks with booties, let alone the races that are traditionally muscular and aesthetically pleasing. If you can't beat them, join them. So I started a SARM cycle last year and did a second this year. I've added 10kg of weight and around 5kg of muscle since. My aim is to add another 5-10kg of weight and really hone in on the fitness model look. I don't want my physique to just look good, I want it to look fit for a magazine cover.

Grooming
I've got an extensive skincare routine of sunscreen, hyaluronic acid and tretinoin. Not sure what else I can add to that.
Hairline has been receding for a few years now. Just holding on at this stage and hoping the hair loss has stabilised.
I've had my teeth whitened a few times in the past but tea and coffee really do a number on them. Will get a custom made dental tray and whitening gel in a week or so.

Fashion
Have loads of stylish, smart and elegant items. I usually use Pinterest for ideas on combinations.

Behaviour/Personality
I'm a functioning introvert but I still avoid interactions that I don't think I will get massive value from. My colleague at work is the first new guy I've genuinely liked in years. He is a social butterfly who talks to everyone. I was thinking of enrolling in Charisma University as I get a lot of value from their free content.

Changing Location
I read a brilliant post a while back which said that men are always focused on upward mobility i.e. improving themselves rather than lateral mobility i.e. changing their environment. If I want a hot gym-going blonde as my girlfriend then perhaps I should move to Scandinavia where there will be an abundance of blondes and fewer brown guys. I've recently started looking into career paths that allow me to work remotely or work for an international company so that I can relocate to a place where there are more blondes and fewer people like me. As extreme a solution as it sounds, it actually makes logical sense. Interestingly, a lot of the London day gamers end up doing just that. Travelling to Europe to meet women.

Surgery
This is super extreme but just putting it out there. I'm short and unfortunately, girls do judge me negatively. Limb lengthening is now an option at an exorbitant cost.

I also carry a lot of fat on my cheeks, and I'm considering buccal fat surgery. This will make the cheekbones prominent as well as the jawline, thus increasing my facial aesthetics. Before, someone says lose weight. I'm looking to add significant mass to my frame so that's not an option in the mid-term.

Sugar Daddy/Money
Another extreme solution. Focus completely on making money, increasing my career prospects and then just sugar daddy girls. I used a sugar daddy website for one week in the past where I slept with a girl without paying and would have had a second if her crazy ex didn't turn up at her doorstep while I had popped out to get alcohol. It wasn't so much salt daddying as we didn't discuss money at all and they never once asked for anything. Anyway, I saw how hot the girls were and how much they chased me as the prize. I am not completely against using my wallet to entice girls to meet me and then using my game to secure them as long-term options, and even providing for them. Obviously, I would need a lot of money to facilitate this. This is what a lot of rich wealthy guys do.

For gym related stuff, even if you're trying to build mass, you can stay under or around 15% and still doing a lean bulk. If you're crossing this line, then you're doing something wrong and I would suggest hiring a good coach, even if you were a PT in the past. Some of them are just doing wonders, if you're commited to the process.

You can add inches by using boots. Boots with limb lengthening could look weird. A good solution is to move in a country where height average is smaller.

Also, surgering for jawline, that's a little bit unatural. Using SARMS could get you bloated, puffy with water retention. Same if anabolics cycles. Maybe consider doing TRT instead of this cycles because at some time you're quit them. And still return to TRT if you wanna keep the gains.

 

[hey_lover]

Great to see you've been active despite the plandemic hey_lover!

Props on putting in the effort to approach sexy baes - that's more than I've been doing. Have caught more than one bae giving me the mesmer eyes auf der strasse and yet haven't approached a girl since I fucked a Russian fresh off the square in 10 minutes at 8:30am back in November. Been doing social circle mostly. Actually approached a Belgian at the train station indirect later that month.

Regarding your process, something seems incongruent - you say you follow indirect practice (Gun, Bacc, Teev) and yet you show no containment, kino escalate fast, and, to top it all off, make out with the girl before isolation logistics. Pecking her might be acceptable at the end of a first date where it is clear bringing her home will not lead to sex because the appropriate frames haven't been set in anticipation of a second, but even then the act of validating her in this way can kill intrigue.

Also, as for your thoughts on your target audience, I would focus more on college students if you want more sex-positive, less gamey, hotter chicks.

Hey Bismark!

Good to hear you've had some recent successes. Winter has always been good to me and is my favourite time of year to game.

Moving super fast is a recent manifestation and I've essentially replaced Teev's sex talk with fast kino escalation (when on dates). I've tried both to know which is more effective but I've just become lazy to take the verbal route as I did in the past.

I would no doubt feel better if I had slept with more of my dates had I stuck to my old process so writing out my experiences has definitely helped in that I can recalibrate. It's funny though because I was talking to one of the guys on the forum prior to my date with a girl from Miami. I sent him a long voice note detailing how I wasn't going to escalate, that I was returning to my old style using pure verbal game for arousal, no physical escalation, potentially lengthen over 2/3 dates, and only escalate in the sex location. Fast forward the next day, I sent him an update saying how I'd kissed her 30 minutes into the date and I slept with her a few hours later.

Anyway, I've always preferred taking action and building reference experiences, while posting as little as possible, hence why I go missing for large periods of time. However, there was a build-up of thoughts and experiences for over a year that I needed to get off my chest which is what's led to today's posts.

 

[Skills]

For gym related stuff, even if you're trying to build mass, you can stay under or around 15% and still doing a lean bulk. If you're crossing this line, then you're doing something wrong and I would suggest hiring a good coach, even if you were a PT in the past. Some of them are just doing wonders, if you're commited to the process.

You can add inches by using boots. Boots with limb lengthening could look weird. A good solution is to move in a country where height average is smaller.

Also, surgering for jawline, that's a little bit unatural. Using SARMS could get you bloated, puffy with water retention. Same if anabolics cycles. Maybe consider doing TRT instead of this cycles because at some time you're quit them. And still return to TRT if you wanna keep the gains.

Trt will get you bloated as fuck to... the way around that is supplement with potassium supplement

 

[Skills]

Hey Bismark!

Good to hear you've had some recent successes. Winter has always been good to me and is my favourite time of year to game.

Moving super fast is a recent manifestation and I've essentially replaced Teev's sex talk with fast kino escalation (when on dates). I've tried both to know which is more effective but I've just become lazy to take the verbal route as I did in the past.

I would no doubt feel better if I had slept with more of my dates had I stuck to my old process so writing out my experiences has definitely helped in that I can recalibrate. It's funny though because I was talking to one of the guys on the forum prior to my date with a girl from Miami. I sent him a long voice note detailing how I wasn't going to escalate, that I was returning to my old style using pure verbal game for arousal, no physical escalation, potentially lengthen over 2/3 dates, and only escalate in the sex location. Fast forward the next day, I sent him an update saying how I'd kissed her 30 minutes into the date and I slept with her a few hours later.

Anyway, I've always preferred taking action and building reference experiences, while posting as little as possible, hence why I go missing for large periods of time. However, there was a build-up of thoughts and experiences for over a year that I needed to get off my chest which is what's led to today's posts.

You can do both pelusita, I, cozy and dozens of people combine no difference even teevester does both at times started incorporating after hanging out with pelusita according to a something he wrote in chase blog...but using both is more effective than 1 or the other use both to increase odds... no escalation but micro escalations...

 

[Skills]

Lmao. I'm just thinking out load of ways to increase SMV.

Someone suggested outside forum that you follow razor Jack suggestions and just move locations...that is what he did...

 

[hey_lover]

You can do both pelusita, I, cozy and dozens of people combine no difference even teevester does both at times started incorporating after hanging out with pelusita according to a something he wrote in chase blog...but using both is more effective than 1 or the other use both to increase odds... no escalation but micro escalations...

Micro escalations is a better way to describe my process. Eye contact > Touch > closing proximity > fingers interlock > nose touch > kiss.

 

[hey_lover]

Maybe.

But nonetheless this is the way ugly girls go about raising their SMV. This is legit how my female cousins talk amongst themselves at family gatherings..

Focus on your mind bro, your confidence, what you project into the world. Overcome your obstacles without buying your way out of them. Your SMV flows from here. Cars, money, muscles, physical features, these are just signals of a mans substance (mental constitution, willpower, intelligence etc.). Women use them as a route to a “high value man” but it’s just a gamble - they’re easily faked.

I’m going off, I know, but something about men considering plastic surgery… ffs.

Hope you figure it out man.

Completely agree. Personal development, becoming the best version of yourself, compounding positive habits, eliminating waste, career/business/mission focussed, relationships development, wealth growth/creation, and health/fitness development are building blocks of the 21st-century man.

Maximising looks, style, fashion etc. are also the bread and butter, but everyone has a hard ceiling to their looks. Some have more work to do than others, others have a higher baseline, few have a low ceiling due to genetics, etc. Looksmaxxing is undoubtedly a dangerous yet insightful rabbit hole to go down.

 

[topcat]

Completely agree. Personal development, becoming the best version of yourself, compounding positive habits, eliminating waste, career/business focussed, maximising looks, style, fashion etc. is the bread and butter, but everyone has a hard ceiling to their SMV. Some have more work to do than others, others have a higher baseline, others have a low ceiling due to genetics, etc. I'm talking generally here, by the way.

Looksmaxxing is a dangerous yet insightful rabbit hole to go down.

Totally, I think the thing to bare in mind here is that you never can be sure of what ‘SMV level’ any of the girl’s you’re attracted to will be into.

I’m sure you’ve heard girls parrot on about height, only to hop in bed with you (or I - i’m 5’4).

At the end of the day she’s just a girl. Make her feeelll. She’ll act against her best interests (societal interests) if you can do that, just reward her properly for the investment she gives you. Once you’ve got her locked in it’s over for her. Muscles can’t do that, but some charismatic plebe out there with a beer gut can. Trust me…

Chase just wrote an article on sidestepping girl’s standards.

You might want to read it.

 

[hey_lover]

Totally, I think the thing to bare in mind here is that you never can be sure of what ‘SMV level’ any of the girl’s you’re attracted to will be into.

I’m sure you’ve heard girls parrot on about height, only to hop in bed with you (or I - i’m 5’4).

At the end of the day she’s just a girl. Make her feeelll. She’ll act against her best interests (societal interests) if you can do that, just reward her properly for the investment she gives you. Once you’ve got her locked in it’s over for her. Muscles can’t do that, but some charismatic plebe out there with a beer gut can. Trust me…

Chase just wrote an article on sidestepping girl’s standards.

You might want to read it.

Absolutely, that's why guessing a girls value before you approach is a huge mistake. Always treat every girl the same. You don't know how she perceives herself relative to you - so just assume you're the higher value and work from there.

Until you meet a charismatic plebe with muscles. At the end of the day, for me it's about becoming the entire package and taking the best version of myself to the absolute limit. Some factors weigh more than others but I'm open to anything that will gain me a couple % points.

Would appreciate it if you can find post the link.

 

[topcat]

Absolutely, that's why guessing a girls value before you approach is a huge mistake. Always treat every girl the same. You don't know how she perceives herself relative to you - so just assume you're the higher value and work from there.

Until you meet a charismatic plebe with muscles. At the end of the day, for me it's about becoming the entire package and taking the best version of myself to the absolute limit. Some factors weigh more than others but I'm open to anything that will gain me a couple % points.

Would appreciate it if you can find post the link.

here you go bro