Seduction Isn't A Piggy Bank, Probability, or Menial Labor

[Will_V]

Beautiful thread as usual from you Will. Really happy that you decided to stick around as you elevate the level of the discussion around here with your carefully thought-out and artfully articulated words.

Plenty of golden nuggets here, like “Being able to see one level deeper into someone's identity than what the world around them perceives, and reflecting it positively back to them, is one of the most powerful rewards you can offer in a social context.”

Or: “Seduction has a lot to do with how she experiences herself through you. If she feels beautiful and happy and interesting and unique when she's around you, that's half of the seduction already complete. That's why deep diving works so well, and calibrated compliments and qualifiers are very effective.

That has very little to do with who you are, and a lot to do with your ability to communicate, reflect, and lead her attention and emotions. You are sort of like her guide through her own world.

Many women are yearning not to find some super attractive guy, but to feel super attracted to themselves, to be able to express parts of themselves they aren't sure the world wants them to express, to be able to see the beauty and enjoyment that's available in their own present existence. If you can lead her there, she will be ready to do things she'd never do with anyone else.”

Also the “mini-experiences” bit (reminds me of Elliot Hulse, who used to talk about giving her mini-orgasms throughout the interaction). And your piece about the fragile ego's coping strategies of going straight for the hardest to not feel threatened, instead of practicing the basics.

I want to preface my post by stating that I broadly agree with your points or at least the main thrust of your ideas. In fact, when this issue was brought up before you arrived in the forum, I responded in a similar vein.

@Bismarck glad you enjoyed the post man!

All that said, last year starting in May when I was going out specifically to cold approach every day for 30 minutes to 1 hour, I felt like I was more successful if I socialized less. Because socializing allowed me to interact with cute girls, and would somehow inform my prefrontal cortex that there was thus no need to go approach.


By starving myself of those mainly social but also sometimes mildly flirty interactions, I was hungrier to put in the grind. What I found was that I had to approach a fair few times before I finally got laid with a hot girl.

But by September I was just enjoying myself socializing and had completely downgraded cold approach pick-up because I viewed it as such a grind.

I’ve always felt that it was easier to pick up girls from social contexts, but I suppose I became more adept at that due to the several years during which I worked as a walking tour guide, where in a sense I was “manufacturing” the social circle, or at least leading it, albeit for a limited time only.

I want to finish with a caveat. I know a guy who, back when he was single, had to cold approach about 250 girls to get a lay. He is now happily married to a girl he met through cold approach day game. This is not the most social guy on the planet, even if he is a member of a few circles.

So different strokes for different folks / there are many ways to skin a cat.

Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to read all the pages of this thread as I simply don’t have the time but will come back to read more as soon as I am able.

Yeah I probably didn't make it clear enough, but my whole post is really aimed at guys who are falling out the bottom of social life and not coping well with rejections/getting a lot of bad results. When you're already suffering from lack of socializing and loneliness in general, it's hard not to be needy and anxious when meeting girls.

Seems like you already have well honed social skills from lots of experience in different social scenes, and from your reports seems like you're still going to lots of parties and stuff, so you won't have that problem at all.

I know what you mean about getting good results when you ration your socializing - it puts you in a more hungry, focused, self-possessed state - but managing the balance is key, and it's very easy to run too low on social glycogen without realizing it if you aren't maintaining good self-awareness.

 

[Chase]

@Arnav,

How would you break down this guy's approaches.

He isn't a pick up artist, he is a pretty famous guy onyoutube, but his motivations are usually to creat viraility videos, social pranks.

Would you say he has good nonverbals, energy and vibe? Any serious mistakes he makes?

I like his energy! He comes in authoritative. Notice how he stops walking girls — he’s walking, approaches, STOPS in his tracks, and because he speaks to them authoritatively, they also STOP and turn to talk to him.

He has some solid examples of frame control in the video. e.g., the girl balks at squid; he retorts with, “Cause that’s the only way we’re going to eat.” The voice tone says them eating is a foregone conclusion, so he actually puts social pressure on her to comply.

I like the email contact close (e.g., joke). It’s a great reverse psychology tease. He goes for email, NEVER asks for the phone number or even says the word “number” himself, and essentially forces the girl to be the one herself to offer up the number. Very smooth!

I don’t like that he’s coming in full bore neo-direct on a lot of these girls. Little banter, just straight up “I like you” then “let’s get some squid.” I agree with @Will_V, these will not be solid numbers. The interactions are too quick, too insubstantial, and (what’s more) they are FULLY generic.

Every single one of these girls is going to look back on his approach and say, “Wow, he did not say anything that was unique to me, and it ended super quick. I think he just goes around and says this to every girl?” and then won’t text him back. You can get the odd lonely girl or clueless girl this way, but most view these kinds of approaches as “mass approach player” approaches and ghost.

Other assorted observations:

• He shares nothing about himself at ALL. Mystery is good. Being a total question mark is not.
  
  
• Girls also do not ASK him anything about himself. Not a good sign, attraction-wise.
  
  
• There is very little flirtation, tension, or build-up to the ask. When he asks, it’s not a “payoff.”
  
  
• Despite his authority + good frame control, there’s nothing else memorable going on. Any girls he does pull are going to be purely off of raw chemistry (e.g., she digs his facial features… she digs his SCENT… etc.).
  
  
• Aside from getting girls to stop when they are walking, he gets no other compliance.

He gets failing marks on SAC here.

Good authority, vocal tonality, and frame control.

The rest of his game needs an overhaul though.

Chase

 

[Arnav]

@Arnav,



I like his energy! He comes in authoritative. Notice how he stops walking girls — he’s walking, approaches, STOPS in his tracks, and because he speaks to them authoritatively, they also STOP and turn to talk to him.

He has some solid examples of frame control in the video. e.g., the girl balks at squid; he retorts with, “Cause that’s the only way we’re going to eat.” The voice tone says them eating is a foregone conclusion, so he actually puts social pressure on her to comply.

I like the email contact close (e.g., joke). It’s a great reverse psychology tease. He goes for email, NEVER asks for the phone number or even says the word “number” himself, and essentially forces the girl to be the one herself to offer up the number. Very smooth!

I don’t like that he’s coming in full bore neo-direct on a lot of these girls. Little banter, just straight up “I like you” then “let’s get some squid.” I agree with @Will_V, these will not be solid numbers. The interactions are too quick, too insubstantial, and (what’s more) they are FULLY generic.

Every single one of these girls is going to look back on his approach and say, “Wow, he did not say anything that was unique to me, and it ended super quick. I think he just goes around and says this to every girl?” and then won’t text him back. You can get the odd lonely girl or clueless girl this way, but most view these kinds of approaches as “mass approach player” approaches and ghost.

Other assorted observations:

• He shares nothing about himself at ALL. Mystery is good. Being a total question mark is not.
  
  
• Girls also do not ASK him anything about himself. Not a good sign, attraction-wise.
  
  
• There is very little flirtation, tension, or build-up to the ask. When he asks, it’s not a “payoff.”
  
  
• Despite his authority + good frame control, there’s nothing else memorable going on. Any girls he does pull are going to be purely off of raw chemistry (e.g., she digs his facial features… she digs his SCENT… etc.).
  
  
• Aside from getting girls to stop when they are walking, he gets no other compliance.

He gets failing marks on SAC here.

Good authority, vocal tonality, and frame control.

The rest of his game needs an overhaul though.

Chase

Great breakdown.
Yeah, his youtube channel is mostly around doing socially outraegeous things which most people think are offlimits.

I kind of had an intution his game was off, but this example looked perfect to highlight the concept of coming in woth good energy and vocal tone, which was missing in the guy you previous breakdown

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

I don’t really like that guy Juan at all.
His video ‘ I like you 2’ he starts with a very hot chick and it all falls apart for him quite obviously imo. He goes into mega-damage control in that interaction.

I wouldn’t run that Neo- direct game myself. Too much work in the follow up imo.

Also another of his I saw , he approaches some random dude and cuts his headphone cable with a scissors ( ! WTF?)
And the guy almost punched him out he was so pissed. Dumb prank and shows nothing much at all. Not sure the purpose of it tbh

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

I don’t really like that guy Juan at all.
His video ‘ I like you 2’ he starts with a very hot chick and it all falls apart for him quite obviously imo. He goes into mega-damage control in that interaction.

I wouldn’t run that Neo- direct game myself. Too much work in the follow up imo.

Also another of his I saw , he approaches some random dude and cuts his headphone cable with a scissors ( ! WTF?)
And the guy almost punched him out he was so pissed. Dumb prank and shows nothing much at all. Not sure the purpose of it tbh

Saying “ I like u” or “ ur cute I had to come talk to u” would really F-up my game tbh.
I’d never do it like that..

 

[Arnav]

Saying “ I like u” or “ ur cute I had to come talk to u” would really F-up my game tbh.
I’d never do it like that..

Who do ypu think are good examples of game, are there any infield videos you have come across that illustrate good game fundamentals.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

Who do ypu think are good examples of game, are there any infield videos you have come across that illustrate good game fundamentals.

This guy Scotty GLL is aseducer imo.
Prob the best and most real infield I’ve seen.

he creates a great intimate vibe with chicks

this is top shelf stuff

To me, seduction fundamentally back to ‘shmoozin’ . Being a charmer and a suave guy. Bringing a very dominant and masculine energy . Creating a great vibe and definitely playing with sexual tension with a woman. And that’s mainly done through holding interesting light conversation and flattery. I call it OTT flattery.
I’m real over the top with a chick when I’m cracking onto her in my verbals about what I like about her.

bowl them over and blow them away basically.

A guy has Gotta show a real raw desire for the chick . She’ll pick up the energy straight away in the first few seconds.

And the energy that drives it is my dirty thoughts about things I’d like to do to her and the fact she turns me on visually and with her personality.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

A

This guy Scotty GLL is aseducer imo.
Prob the best and most real infield I’ve seen.

he creates a great intimate vibe with chicks

this is top shelf stuff

To me, seduction fundamentally back to ‘shmoozin’ . Being a charmer and a suave guy. Bringing a very dominant and masculine energy . Creating a great vibe and definitely playing with sexual tension with a woman. And that’s mainly done through holding interesting light conversation and flattery. I call it OTT flattery.
I’m real over the top with a chick when I’m cracking onto her in my verbals about what I like about her.

bowl them over and blow them away basically.

A guy has Gotta show a real raw desire for the chick . She’ll pick up the energy straight away in the first few seconds.

And the energy that drives it is my dirty thoughts about things I’d like to do to her and the fact she turns me on visually and with her personality.

And touch.
Forgot that one. Breaking the touch barrier early is essential for signalling.

 

[Arnav]

This guy Scotty GLL is aseducer imo.
Prob the best and most real infield I’ve seen.

he creates a great intimate vibe with chicks

this is top shelf stuff

To me, seduction fundamentally back to ‘shmoozin’ . Being a charmer and a suave guy. Bringing a very dominant and masculine energy . Creating a great vibe and definitely playing with sexual tension with a woman. And that’s mainly done through holding interesting light conversation and flattery. I call it OTT flattery.
I’m real over the top with a chick when I’m cracking onto her in my verbals about what I like about her.

bowl them over and blow them away basically.

A guy has Gotta show a real raw desire for the chick . She’ll pick up the energy straight away in the first few seconds.

And the energy that drives it is my dirty thoughts about things I’d like to do to her and the fact she turns me on visually and with her personality.

Yeah these are pretty good, he is way more touchy than the youtubers, and also a lot more masculine and authorotative. these are great examples.

 

[Brassfaced_Jim]

H

Yeah these are pretty good, he is way more touchy than the youtubers, and also a lot more masculine and authorotative. these are great examples.

es the best out there I reckon