Should I even bother getting into online dating apps, paying for professional pics & training, etc?

[Ronnie]

Premise: I am mid 30s and I have never used online dating apps. I did wild night game in loud clubs in my mid to late 20s (85% of "new lays" in my life are from that period and that environment - which increasingly start looking like "the old glory days that are never coming back"). Had a couple serious relationships in my early 30s and for the last 3 months I have restarted game by focusing mostly on day game (I am basically a beginner there), quiet night game (chilled bars/lounges) and social circle game (meetups etc). Needless to say, the only two new lays of last few months came from social circle game, the most natural thing when you have been in a relationship for a long time.

I am sure I will SLOWLY (I am pretty busy building a business) get better at day game and chilled bar game but I am now considering for the first time to use apps like Tinder, Hinge etc. As an entrepreneur, I immediately try to assess the overall cost and ROI of any "project". So, let's sum this up.

- In terms of looks, I'd say I am a 6 to 6.5. A couple of female friends insist I am a 7 but they're obviously biased. With the right professional pics I may look like a 7 to 7.5, especially if I continue to work out (I have a slim athletic body) and improve my grooming (I don't have any visible bald spots yet).
- I have no knowledge of how to set the right profile and my text game is very basic and limited to arranging a date with a girl I already met face-to-face and asked her number, so to speed learning up I am considering enrolling in some program (I have two in mind at the moment - if you enrolled in one that worked for you, please share)
- I live in a very big and multicultural European city and I also travel a lot around Europe and sometimes North America and Asia.

Keeping all these factors into account, how much do you guys think it's worth it to invest money in professional dating app pics (they're quite expensive) and money/time in a training program (also not cheap)? Also, what's the lowest age a gay in his mid or late 30s can expect to bang on Tinder or Hinge in a big metropolitan city? Early 30s? Late 20s? Mid 20s?

Thanks!

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

In terms of looks, I'd say I am a 6 to 6.5.

Join the club, I recently uploaded 25 of my best pictures to photofeeler (mid 30s to early 40s pics)... I paid them a bunch of cash too to get 80 votes on each picture, all pics came back in the 5.x to 6.x range. I didn't even pick the youngest women to rate me, I got rated by females age 25-35.

I've never done that well online, I got a few lays here and there but the quality was never the same that I got from cold approach, and so I lost interest in it. Then with the apps the situation got exponentially worse, see the post in my signature. Apps are not worth my time... YMMV.

You sound like you have a sharp head on your shoulder and a whole bunch of experience from years ago, personally my conclusion was this: getting online game dialed in would be doable, but it would take 6 months of serious effort... I'd rather spend that time working on cold approach.

2c.

 

[DarkKnight]

Online game is bad momentum and can give you bad social feedback and condition you for the worst

In the past I was actually really good at it.. this was BEFORE tinder. I got a lot of girlfriends from online but dynamics have changed a lot

Unless you are in a place with barely any acces to women I would skip this. Also something else that made me sour on online, women can be very picky and arrogant online, women who in real life would kill for you. So when accidentily meeting these chicks in real life (and they alwaya dissapoint compared to online presentation) I am already turned off due to the bad presedence. Even when they switch to "on". I have always had a big ego, these boards have calmed me down a bit and made me more patient but still some things are just a turnoff.

Nah man daygame cold approach is the way to go for me. I even view social circle game as superior to online.

 

[Warped Mindless]

My selfies were all rated 9+ on photo feeler and I still hardly got any decent matches until I went and got professional pics done from a person who specialized in making dating pics for guys. If you are going to do it, get professional pics.

 

[Skjöldr]

a gay in his mid or late 30s

A gay or a guy?

 

[POB]

My selfies were all rated 9+ on photo feeler and I still hardly got any decent matches until I went and got professional pics done from a person who specialized in making dating pics for guys. If you are going to do it, get professional pics.

I second this.
Photofeeler can be deceiving.
@Ronnie , If you are going this route:
- hire TWO professionals, do two separate sessions with a different setup (different clothes and scenario)
- the day before the session, check your grooming, hidrate properly and get 8 hours of sleep
- what to wear? get feedback from a stylish female or gay friend (if you can, ask them to come and help with your shopping)
- during the session, talk with the photographer, tell jokes, banther and try to create a good vibe
- get the photos back, choose the best 10-12 and photoshop them (in a PC) for correction (mainly brightness, contrast, exposition and saturation)
- upload those pics to photofeeler and test frame
- if you get feedback like "can't see your face" or "too far away", do A/B tests for the same pic, but with different crops
(you be shocked with the difference it makes on your rating)
- never use selfies....they are good for social media, but suck for dating apps
- usually you should avoid sunglasses
- direct eye contact and smile
- outside photos are usually better than studio, because they look more natural
- choose the photos that yield a high score (8+) for both attractiveness and trust. They are probably the ones you didn't pay attention to, or didn't like that much, but that's irrelevant.

Mind you this is a 3-4 month project that should be done before you even begin to write a profile.
Yes, it is a lot of work...but you only have to do it once maybe every ten years.
Plus you can use all the spare pics to create a beautiful IG profile, add hotties there and start to text them.

My take?
Use this as a side project you work on when the weather is bad, or you are not in the mood to go out and sarge.
Main focus should always be on live game.

P.S. if you'd like, DM me your pics and I'll give you feedback
P.S. 2 you can use Facebook Dating as a training ground for your pics.
It's free and has a decent pool of women.
You can even ask them for feedback, like why they chose to match with you.
P.S. 3 Buy @Hector Papi Castillo texting book. It's really good.

 

[Ronnie]

Mind you this is a 3-4 month project that should be done before you even begin to write a profile.
Yes, it is a lot of work...but you only have to do it once maybe every ten years.

Yeah, I am not even downloading one of those apps until I have a bunch of pics in which I look at least mildly hot. Some part of me would even be willing to wait until I get really jacked at the gym, although I can maybe start with Tinder early and then create a Bumble/Hinge profile in 8-9 months later when I have more muscle on me.

I am also not gonna start until I have completed some good online dating / text game program. I guess, worst case scenario, it's gonna help me with my texting with chicks I mean in everyday life.

My doubt right now is whether the potential results I can get as a 35-year-old dude justifuies this type of time/money investment. I am pretty busy with my business so I need to use my time (which is money) carefully. Some YouTube channels (like Playing with Fire) make it look like if you got good prof pics plus good text game and good first date game, you are going to kill it on Tinder etc.. but as an entrepreneur I am always cautious of those giving advice while also selling programs.

 

[Ronnie]

A gay or a guy?

My unconscious trying to come out?

 

[POB]

Yeah, I am not even downloading one of those apps until I have a bunch of pics in which I look at least mildly hot. Some part of me would even be willing to wait until I get really jacked at the gym, although I can maybe start with Tinder early and then create a Bumble/Hinge profile in 8-9 months later when I have more muscle on me.

Don't wait.
Get the best pics now, replace them later when you buff up.

I am also not gonna start until I have completed some good online dating / text game program. I guess, worst case scenario, it's gonna help me with my texting with chicks I mean in everyday life.

Buy Hector's book.
Blackdragon also used to have a good online dating book, don't know if it's updated.
Only get coaching after you've been out there for a while.
Get valid data first!
If you are getting matches, but not actual dates (which means your texts needs working), then you could add a coach to the mix.
Also, in this very forum, there's a whole series of discussions with practical texting tips.
Just type "texting" at the search box up there.

My doubt right now is whether the potential results I can get as a 35-year-old dude justifuies this type of time/money investment.

This is a projection.
I'm 43, soon to be 44, and still able to match with <25 hbs without hiding my age.
Is it super easy?
Not really
But it's doable
Again, you probably don't need expensive coaching now (books are cheap).

I am pretty busy with my business so I need to use my time (which is money) carefully. Some YouTube channels (like Playing with Fire) make it look like if you got good prof pics plus good text game and good first date game, you are going to kill it on Tinder etc.. but as an entrepreneur I am always cautious of those giving advice while also selling programs.

They are lying.
Online is work, as much (or even more, depending where you are) as day and nightgame...just requires a different approach.
Plus it's slow, mechanical and not fun...this is why you won't find much love for it here.
But it works (if you have the patience to follow the right steps).

 

[Ronnie]

Online is work, as much (or even more, depending where you are) as day and nightgame...just requires a different approach.
Plus it's slow, mechanical and not fun...this is why you won't find much love for it here.
But it works (if you have the patience to follow the right steps).

Yeah, that's the feeling I am getting... Todd claims your online dating profile and text game skills are like an asset you build over time....

Good thing is that I am basically a beginner at both online and day game, so in a year or so I'll be able to tell you guys which one gave me 1) faster results 2) better results.

Meanwhile I'll try get most lays from night and social circle, the two things I am actually effective at right now.
Gotta resist the temptation to pay for high-level escorts now that I have the means LOL

 

[Skills]

Best dudes in the forum old are @TomInHo and al @topcat And they follow my texting structure i would get coaching from @TomInHo tbh before paying anybody... @POB Is pretty good too... you have the best guys here tbh...also you need to diversify all types of games, all good lead sources...i am not a fan of pro pics unless is a dude that specialized on app and a seducer unlikely to find...

P.s. that night game you mentionef good old days slowly comming back little by little...

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

Either you adapt to online dating/social media, or you greatly expand your social circle.

A great social circle - any given night, there's always something to do with friends/acquaintances. You're getting invited out. That's still doable, but it's as much work as social media/online dating. And it usually involves social media.

Adapting - IMO, you need more than just one set of great photos. You need to be able to take great photos of 1) yourself, 2) social situations, and then set up the dating app and social media to reflect that great life. Many chicks will reverse image search, so a great dating app photo needs to be backed up with good social media (and that's IG, FB, but also LinkedIn)

 

[topcat]

Yeah I’ll give my input as somebody w/ +100 bodies from online..

Professional pics are unnecessary.

This idea that you need to be a 10+ man to clean up on the apps is quack also.

I’ve not had professional pics taken. The majority of my pics have been selfies AND i’m short and wear glasses and am an ethnic minority.

Disqualifiers out the way, here is what you do need to succeed online.

Grit: you need to learn & understand that rejections online mean nothing. Women are busy, inundated with thousands of messages from countless thirsty dudes and you aren’t important. Lucky for you you get unlimited tries.

Process: you need to hone and establish a successful process. Process is everything online. It should be to establish leads, qualify leads, close leads and get them off the app asap.

I’ve noticed a lot of slander of apps on here claiming it doesn’t work and it’s near impossible to gets dates.

I’ve kept quiet but i have noticed that the people decrying it failed to establish a winning process nor stick it out long enough to figure out how to gain success on the platform. I assume this is because online has been touted as “easy” which it isn’t , so when faced with pitiful results the conclusion is simply that “online doesn’t work and is trash”.

This is far from true, it is its own thing and requires an approach very different from other forms of game.

It requires systems, and one to think systematically.

The girl on the other side isn’t real until you meet her face to face (and neither are you). The guys i see that fail take online far too personally, before they reach this point.


The process:

ping - say or do something to get her attention

banter - get her complying, let her see you’re a normal person, find out why she’s worth meeting up with

qualify - qualify her on what you find cool about her

soft close - reward her compliance with an offer to meet you

get her off the app

hard close on your messenger of choice (avoid instagram)



This should ideally all be done within five messages.
Don’t waste your time in fancy flirting or trying to convince her to be into you. Do that on whatsapp once you have her number and when you have her on a date.

If at any point you face resistance move on to the next. No single lead is important until you have a date scheduled.

As for me, i’ve since quit online because it got too predictable and i find it boring.

 

[DarkKnight]

I assume this is because online has been touted as “easy” which it isn’t , so when faced with pitiful results the conclusion is simply that “online doesn’t work and is trash”.

Hmm, you got my interest as I am obviously one of those guys who just called online trash. Topcat perhaps a comprehensive thread from you would help a lot of guys and get me to try out online again. It never really felt well with me that I ditched that method because in the past pre-tinder I was quite good online.

Your reply really reminds me of how I get annoyed when guys say that hired guns are "impossible".

 

[topcat]

Hmm, you got my interest as I am obviously one of those guys who just called online trash. Topcat perhaps a comprehensive thread from you would help a lot of guys and get me to try out online again. It never really felt well with me that I ditched that method because in the past pre-tinder I was quite good online.

Your reply really reminds me of how I get annoyed when guys say that hired guns are "impossible".

Sure. When i’ve got some time I’ll write one up.

 

[Skills]

Sure. When i’ve got some time I’ll write one up.

@TomInHo already writing one, due to this post talk to him so you guys can synchronize ... Anyways I talk about what topcat is saying in 2 different post:

Observations - When advance guys switch game styles you need to be patient...

A lot of the advance guys gamed for years, got pretty decent in a niche.... But if the niche is taking away for whatever reason could be temporarily or permanently such: - lost of social circle - clubs dying (could be corona, summer college break, winter break or cuffing season/online taking...

www.skilledseducer.com

Socializing - The fallacy of seduction success....

So I always write a blog and/or a post, based on an observation, my life, the field or something going on... So the sequence is, i usually make a post then get feedback then usually turn it into a youtube video..... Recently i made a goal of try to do a youtube a week, but it has been 2 weeks...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Ronnie]

- choose the photos that yield a high score (8+) for both attractiveness and trust. They are probably the ones you didn't pay attention to, or didn't like that much, but that's irrelevant.

Out of curiosity, I tried to test my two best selfies on fotofeeler. One got a 5 and one got a 6. It's indeed gotta be a long preparation time before I will even sign up to one of those dating apps.

 

[topcat]

Out of curiosity, I tried to test my two best selfies on fotofeeler. One got a 5 and one got a 6. It's indeed gotta be a long preparation time before I will even sign up to one of those dating apps.

dude why? because some app said you were a “5”? how about you test your pictures on real time on the apps instead?

 

[King]

If you've got some extra money or time, honestly spend some energy on pictures. they are really important in todays day and age of social media land. You'll need some sooner or later. I personally haven't done any for so many years and I regret it a tiny bit, because pictures are quite a good medium for communication - making statements for todays day and age, as such this is something I will be getting good at moving forward.

So either get good at taking your own or perhaps hire a decent photographer and grab an inexpensive package to get a few decent shots taken regardless of if you are going to be engaging with any datings apps or not.

 

[Ronnie]

dude why? because some app said you were a “5”? how about you test your pictures on real time on the apps instead?

I mean overall is not that bad now that I have looked at how scores are calculated.
I ended up uploading 4 selfies (not professional pics) on photo feeler, for a total of 40 votes.

1 woman found me VERY ATTRACTIVE
9 women found me ATTRACTIVE
21 women found me SOMEWHAT ATTRACTIVE
9 women found me NOT ATTRACTIVE

Still, I want the best pics possible before I even invest my time in this thing. For the time being, improving my day game skills sounds like the more reasonable thing to do, wouldn't you agree?