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Should I even bother getting into online dating apps, paying for professional pics & training, etc?

Warped Mindless

Tribal Elder
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Go to Reddit and look for the sun “instagram reality” and look through it. Realize that male influencers are using the same techniques.

The reason selfies of the get low scores isn’t always because you are ugly or anything, it’s because women are used to scrolling through social media accounts of people who use image manipulation and filters to get unrealistic pics and that is what they are comparing you to.



 

TomInHo

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I mean overall is not that bad now that I have looked at how scores are calculated.
I ended up uploading 4 selfies (not professional pics) on photo feeler, for a total of 40 votes.

1 woman found me VERY ATTRACTIVE
9 women found me ATTRACTIVE
21 women found me SOMEWHAT ATTRACTIVE
9 women found me NOT ATTRACTIVE

Still, I want the best pics possible before I even invest my time in this thing. For the time being, improving my day game skills sounds like the more reasonable thing to do, wouldn't you agree?

Photofeeler is good to give you an idea on how your pictures might perform

But you still want to put yourself out there online and reiterate your bio and pics until you’re getting results

Because right now you’re just guessing and wasting valuable time that could be spent on getting real feedback

Stop procrastinating and start investing
 

Ronnie

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Photofeeler is good to give you an idea on how your pictures might perform

But you still want to put yourself out there online and reiterate your bio and pics until you’re getting results

Because right now you’re just guessing and wasting valuable time that could be spent on getting real feedback

Stop procrastinating and start investing
This thread was very useful to me.

I am investing a lot in learning day game these days (still convinced that's where I guy like me can make the difference long-term now that the partying years are mostly over) but I'll use the advice you guys gave me to give this online dating thing a try before dismissing it.
 

POB

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The reason selfies of the get low scores isn’t always because you are ugly or anything, it’s because women are used to scrolling through social media accounts of people who use image manipulation and filters to get unrealistic pics and that is what they are comparing you to.

Thank you
Photofeeler is good to give you an idea on how your pictures might perform
But you still want to put yourself out there online and reiterate your bio and pics until you’re getting results
Because right now you’re just guessing and wasting valuable time that could be spent on getting real feedback
Stop procrastinating and start investing
Thank you (2)

Tbh, what I said before is relevant if you want to maximize everything (highest odds).
Remember that your margin for error on apps also gets smaller once you are past a certain age.
So if you are shooting for vyw (like <25) and you are over 40 (like me), I think it's better to get pro pics and follow the script.

But if you are a decent looking 30ish yo dude entering your prime, yes, you can probably get away with good selfies.
 
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POB

Chieftan
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Out of curiosity, I tried to test my two best selfies on fotofeeler. One got a 5 and one got a 6. It's indeed gotta be a long preparation time before I will even sign up to one of those dating apps.
This is why I said you should avoid selfies.
Best photos always are:
- not selfies
- outside shooting
- decent pro camera

My best rated photo has a 9.1 overall score (9.7 on attraction, 9.5 on trust).
Of course it's a professional photo where I took all the steps I mentioned in my first comment.
In contrast, my best selfies can't get past 7-8.
 

Karea Ricardus D.

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Thing about female attraction is that it comes in two shapes... looks based and other. If you can throw up selfies and get 9+ ratings on photofeeler, you're in the first category. If even your best pictures come back in the 5-6 range, you want to build attraction in the "other" category. Apps aren't cut out for that... dating sites kinda were because you could still contact everyone, but with the apps you can't even message the girls who didn't already swipe you based on your pictures FIRST. Not saying it's impossible by any stretch but I'm saying it's a lot of work and in my experience investing that work in daygame will yield higher results.
 

Gladiator

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Remember that your margin for error on apps also gets smaller once you are past a certain age.
I read somewhere you mentioned you're 43 but you easily pass for 28-30 y.o. So, is it still a problem? Or because they can see your age right away, it changes the dynamic?
 
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Ronnie

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Thing about female attraction is that it comes in two shapes... looks based and other. If you can throw up selfies and get 9+ ratings on photofeeler, you're in the first category. If even your best pictures come back in the 5-6 range, you want to build attraction in the "other" category. Apps aren't cut out for that... dating sites kinda were because you could still contact everyone, but with the apps you can't even message the girls who didn't already swipe you based on your pictures FIRST. Not saying it's impossible by any stretch but I'm saying it's a lot of work and in my experience investing that work in daygame will yield higher results.

My best selfie got a 6, with 2 women considering me attractive, 4 somewhat attractive, and 2 not attractive.
Even if jacked up, got the best haircut possible and hired the best possible photographer, I don't know how I can surpass 7 / 7.5
Maybe I am wrong so I'll try anyway but I am not putting any expectations on this.

Having had my fair share of night game pulls / social circle pulls in my late 20s and getting a generally positive vibe from girls when I go for indirect day game, I think improving my overall attractiveness beyond looks and going for real-life interactions is the thing for me. I don't want negative feedback from online dating to mess my mood and negatively impacting my day game.
 

Karea Ricardus D.

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I don't want negative feedback from online dating to mess my mood and negatively impacting my day game.
That definitely happened to me. The apps got more and more competitive and difficult with algo changes over the years and by 2018 they kicked me clear out of the range of women I'm really attracted to. I couldn't get any of them anymore suddenly.

Could that be fixed... probably... but it gave my confidence a good kick in the stomach. Even Teevster made that experience. I think the risk of inner game damage these apps (and social media in general) can cause is not to be underestimated.
 

topcat

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I think i see where you guys are going wrong.

Online dating needs to be dealt with like marketing..

You need to think in “cohorts” and game cohorts not individuals. Create “funnels” and run your leads through these funnels.

The heart-on-sleeve, empathetic, inner game shit doesn’t start till face to face and i’m honestly starting to think cohort/marketing thinking can be applied to all game in some sense.

There’s no need for inner game online, you’re just pressing buttons.

Text goes in, pussy cums out.

Adjust the inputs until you receive favourable outputs.
 

Karea Ricardus D.

Tribal Elder
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Online dating needs to be dealt with like marketing..
I can relate to this... I made my fortune in direct response marketing / email marketing.
You need to think in “cohorts” and game cohorts not individuals. Create “funnels” and run your leads through these funnels.
The problem with dating is, our copy (conversion process) is limited by genetics.

I guess it's in marketing too... if you're struck with a stupid brain, you can't write good copy. 😅

Honestly even the game I run (average looking guy game with great verbals / charisma / other forms of value) is arguably still genetic. :unsure:
There’s no need for inner game online, you’re just pressing buttons.

Text goes in, pussy cums out.
Except when it doesn't. Then it hits the inner game.

You say you're short - that doesn't reflect on the apps.
You say you're an ethnic minority - that's not a disadvantage in this day and age in the West.

What do you rate like on photofeeler?
Adjust the inputs until you receive favourable outputs.
Only so much you can do to adjust the input when she has to approve of your face FIRST before you even get to talk to her. Other than plastic surgery, that is.
 

TomInHo

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All this talk about apps and inner game is just lolz

Guys she’s not REAL

She’s just some pixels on a screen. It doesn’t really matter and online will always be a numbers game

OLD is just marketing. Even if you’re not a model you can create a profile that is a certain “TYPE”

Girls are not only banging Chads and Tyrones online ya know

They bang… bikers, surfers, fit guys, metro guys, androgynous guys, adventurer guys, artsy guys

You get the point

If your profile demonstrates you’re a certain type you’ll get more matches and can then run them through a funnel to meet up for a date

Save all the game stuff for the date

TBH the way you guys are talking on here, I actually feel doing some online will improve your overall game

Because if you’re struggling to create some images of your archetype that can get girls to swipe on you, then your fundamentals and presentation could use some work

Just think about all the AI’s and improved hooks you’re gonna get once you upgrade your image
 
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a good date brings a smile to your lips... and hers

topcat

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The problem with dating is, our copy (conversion process) is limited by genetics.

I guess it's in marketing too... if you're struck with a stupid brain, you can't write good copy. 😅

Honestly even the game I run (average looking guy game with great verbals / charisma / other forms of value) is arguably still genetic. :unsure:
Lol i hear you.

But tinder doesn’t really call for great copy.

You just need to do enough to get a girl to respond (i typically send one emoji to create intrigue).

Then send a situationally relevant message to get her complying.

Respond to that in a way that relates but also gets her investing more.

Get her to share something deeper about herself, whether that be sexually relevant or more innocent.

Qualify her on it and share something about yourself.

Then close.

Do that with 100 matches, you’re getting laid a fair few times if you know how to run a good date.

Also i hate that genetics argument a lot. It’s just a way for a man to reject himself and blame it on some invisible boogeyman. In a third world country a man might attribute his failures to a familial curse. It all sounds the same to me.

Except when it doesn't. Then it hits the inner game.

You say you're short - that doesn't reflect on the apps.
You say you're an ethnic minority - that's not a disadvantage in this day and age in the West.

What do you rate like on photofeeler?
Lol until she meets you face to face and you’re standing a whole head shorter than her..

Plus there are tonsssss of chicks online with “sorry short kings, nobody shorter than 6foot” in their bio.

We smash those hoes too..

I bring up the ethnic minority thing cuz it’s usually another imagined handicap people use as an excuse on here. Glasses too…

It’s all just excuses. Excuses. Excuses.

And never used photofeeler, but i’m definitely not a “9”.

Only so much you can do to adjust the input when she has to approve of your face FIRST before you even get to talk to her. Other than plastic surgery, that is.
There’s a lot you can adjust before it gets to that point though. Number one is realizing online rejections aren’t real. She’s not rejecting you, your messages just aren’t important int the grand scheme of things. Qualify or disqualify and move on to the next lead quickly.
 

topcat

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All this talk about apps and inner game is just lolz

Guys she’s not REAL

She’s just some pixels on a screen. It doesn’t really matter and online will always be a numbers game

OLD is just marketing. Even if you’re not a model you can create a profile that is a certain “TYPE”

Girls are not only banging Chads and Tyrones online ya know

They bang… bikers, surfers, fit guys, metro guys, androgynous guys, adventurer guys, artsy guys

You get the point

If your profile demonstrates you’re a certain type you’ll get more matches and can then run them through a funnel to meet up for a date

Save all the game stuff for the date

TBH the way you guys are talking on here, I actually feel doing some online will improve your overall game

Because if you’re struggling to create some images of your archetype that can get girls to swipe on you, then your fundamentals and presentation could use some work

Just think about all the AI’s and improved hooks you’re gonna get once you upgrade your image
1000%. The purpose of profile is to create intrigue, it needs to be a pattern interrupt or signal to her “type”. Her type being a subset/cohort of girls who are looking for something you hint at offering in your profile.

This “i need to be a 9 chad” is barking up the wrong tree.

Instead ask, why should she be curious and stop on my profile?

HINT: it’s not because photofeeler said you were a 9
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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My best selfie got a 6, with 2 women considering me attractive, 4 somewhat attractive, and 2 not attractive.
Even if jacked up, got the best haircut possible and hired the best possible photographer, I don't know how I can surpass 7 / 7.5
Maybe I am wrong so I'll try anyway but I am not putting any expectations on this.

Having had my fair share of night game pulls / social circle pulls in my late 20s and getting a generally positive vibe from girls when I go for indirect day game, I think improving my overall attractiveness beyond looks and going for real-life interactions is the thing for me. I don't want negative feedback from online dating to mess my mood and negatively impacting my day game.
Dude no offense what you did in your 20s aka 15 years ago means jack shit today...all game styles is what you have done for me lately in other words have you achieve dick on pussy lately if that is your goal, or are you dating the girl you want etc... when i went from cold approach to test online it was extremely frustrating....

-you feel ugly and worthless
-you take shit personal
-you feel you lack control

But is more of stucture/ process and screening... at the meet is when you switch to seduction... you dont need to stop other forms of game, if you are doing good and satisfied with what you are doing... but in hunting seductions periods online is just another lead source....if you do it right eventually you will get kind of bored, on how streamline the process is..it gets depressing cause so repetitive...
 

Warped Mindless

Tribal Elder
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Couple more things I want to chime in on: tinder (don’t know about the others) will purposefully make it harder for you to match unless you pay for premium features. As in they actually “ding” your account until you shell out money.

If you want something that works well but is unethical do the following:

Get a new Instagram.
Then get a ton of cool pics and pay some dude in the Philippines a couple dollars an hour to photoshop them and make them even cooler
Pay a bot service to give you 250K fake follower and to have fake female accounts to leave comments on your pics.

Bam, you now look like an influencer. Funnel women to this IG for a huge dose of social proof. IG will catch on and ban your page after a couple months tho. Several people I know tested this and would message women on IG and pick them up on there with good results. Until their pages kept getting banned anywahs.
 

TomInHo

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Couple more things I want to chime in on: tinder (don’t know about the others) will purposefully make it harder for you to match unless you pay for premium features. As in they actually “ding” your account until you shell out money.

If you want something that works well but is unethical do the following:

Get a new Instagram.
Then get a ton of cool pics and pay some dude in the Philippines a couple dollars an hour to photoshop them and make them even cooler
Pay a bot service to give you 250K fake follower and to have fake female accounts to leave comments on your pics.

Bam, you now look like an influencer. Funnel women to this IG for a huge dose of social proof. IG will catch on and ban your page after a couple months tho. Several people I know tested this and would message women on IG and pick them up on there with good results. Until their pages kept getting banned anywahs.

I have a big social media following and don't even use it get laid online. And I do more than fine

You don’t need to do all these wacky schemes to get pussy with OLD. Also dating with IG has its downsides because sourcing girls becomes problematic and requires more time investment upfront

DM’ing random hoes is more time consuming. Becomes like cold approach again because you’re not sure about their sexual availability

But works best when you pre-screen them to see if they follow guys just like you and then ironically you run them through a sales funnel again lol
 
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