The Archetype

[Spike]

I’ll start off this post today by sharing a conversation I had with a very active seducer who is aware of what’s going on today in the pickup scene and what it was like pre-Covid. Because a lot has changed since then.

Upfront game is basically your look. Which encompasses what you look like face, clothing style, body etc. Here we agreed if your upfront game is good, then the game is easy. Which is why I don’t respond to questions I get regarding what my verbal game look like. Because the game is pretty much over from the beginning if your upfront game is very strong.

The second thing I’ll talk about before diving into the post is a post written last year by skills on Optimal game. He wrote it in response to people claiming to getting results despite not doing the optimal thing your supposed to do to get a lot of those results. I’ve already shared what is the true markings of an advanced seducer: the hotness of the girls your banging and how consistently you get them.

so if someone were to respond for instance, “I fucked girls while I was dressed like shit”. We’ll compare that statement to what it means to be an advanced seducer.

Because you did something, but are unable to reproduce that result in a consistent manner, it falls under not optimal. Because if something is optimal it means that is the best thing to get you the results you want (hot girls) on a consistent basis.

So what I’m discussing in this post is the most optimal way to go about that.

And the third and last thing I’ll discuss, is on separating good looks and dress style. Because the reality is not all of us can be model tier looking guys no matter how much we work out or eat healthy. We’ll be at best high 7s low 8s. So what we want is for our dress style to enhance (add a point) our look to further strengthen our upfront game.

one of the guys I’m going to be referencing today is Jacob Elordi. Who most girls (especially of the 18-24 year old demographic) will think is hot. So he can dress optimally or not, and would still get girls. Not to mention he’s also a famous celebrity. So could get girls just off that. So dressing well is not a requirement for him. Yet he is someone who does have great fashion sense. Not always tho. This girl on Tiktok made a video on Jacob Elordi, if what he was wearing was a good outfit or just a celebrity.

Here is an example of a bad outfit. And therefore should not be used as inspiration because it would not enhance your overall look.

And here is an example of a good outfit. That you could use for inspiration because it will enhance your overall look.

Now that we got those 3 points out of the way i will post the guide in the next post.

 

[Spike]

City girls vs Long Island girls: High risk vs Risk adverse

the epiphany I had that lead to this post was a conversation I had with one of my newer fbs. She mentioned that the way I dressed really only appealed to the city girls (girls born and raised in NYC) but not to Long Island girls. Why? Because the way I looked was seen as too risky for them. They’d take a glance, and although they may think I’m objectively a good looking guy, all they see is danger. Which city girls eat up.

Those who read my first report will remember this Video. I said in that report that my recommendation for how I think guys should dress is to go full max vampire sprinkled in with some of the werewolf aesthetic. I ignored all the other archetypes because I was going for the all black look. Little did I know, I was unknowingly screening out (not that I went up to Long Island girls and they walked away from me or I walked away from them when they wouldn’t hook. Just that I wasn’t noticing IOIs from them) the girls who thought of me as too risky.

who are the guys Long Island girls go for? Probably someone who won’t kill, manipulate, or be broke (at least at first glance (upfront game). Sometimes you don’t really know until after you sleep with them). The way I dressed triggered one of those fears.

City girls on the other hand have a much higher risk tolerance due to them having been more independent at an early age (of course. Not always true. There will still be girls that grew up in the city in sheltered household with strict parents. Therefore have more in common with Long Island girls. So rather than it mattering where they were born (not everyone in this forum lives in NY), it’s more a high risk vs risk adverse thing. Based on how they grew up).

city girls grew up being able to go wherever they wanted to go without having to rely on their parents. They didn’t need to have a drivers license. Just $3 to ride the subway. This allowed them to gain a whole lot of experiences Long Island girls would not be able to attain until a much later age (if ever due to having grown up risk adverse). What happens when you gain all these experiences is your tolerance for risk increases. Therefore you need a higher dose to achieve the same effect as before.

This is why girls with higher risk tolerance will still go home with you despite not being 100% certain if you will kill, manipulate, or be broke. So they’ll seek out guys that will be able to fulfill the higher dosage of risk they require.

if I were to rank the archetypes in Matteo’s video from most to least risk in terms of physical (kill), emotional (manipulate), or financial (be broke) danger. It’d go:

1. werewolf
2. Vampire
3. Pirate
4. Billionaire

because think about what would happen if a girl encountered any of these actual entities. A actual werewolf would just kill and eat you. A vampire would manipulate you into allowing them to turn you into one. Pirates always just smell bad and would want to rob you. While billionaires want to date you.

So here’s how everything ties together.

if you dress to the billionaire aesthetic, you will be seen as too boring for the high risk tolerance girls but a safe choice for the low risk tolerance girls.

if you dress to the werewolf aesthetic (as I was), you’ll be seen as too risky for the low risk tolerance girls, but perfect for the high risk tolerance girls.

which is what my fb was trying to get me to realize regarding city girls vs Long Island girls.

so is there an optimal way to get both types of girls? So you don’t have to sacrifice one for the other? There is. Which I’ll discuss in the next post.

 

[Spike]

The solution was simple. It was to take various parts from each archetype and combine them into creating one ultimate archetype.

similar to how you’ll see images like the one below where they created the ultimate soccer player made up by parts of the best individuals that were skilled at that particular soccer ability

While Messi is an amazing soccer player (one archetype), he would be no match for this created soccer player.

The funny thing that I found from this experience was how beautifully everything meshed in together.

You guys don’t have to take the specific things I took from each archetype but this is what I did.

from the vampire archetype I kept the Kpop styled dyed hair aspect (my hair is platinum blonde. Which chat gpt suggests is a sign of wealth.

I kept the clean shaved aspect of it, the silver jewelry (eyebrow piercing, watch, rings, necklace and earrings) and the boots aspect (I wear Doc martens black tassel loafers).

Side note: on hair and the clean shaven aspect. I ran across this videowhere a girl was discussing the various hairstyles that work to appeal to different vibes. The one haircut that appealed to all demographics was the bleached hair, grown-in messy buzz cut. As for facial hair, the ones that appealed across all vibes were clean shaved and the mustache look. Which I know Skills has already made a post on.

Moving on to the next archetype, from the werewolf, I obviously still have all my tattoos, and continue hitting the gym for muscles.

From the pirate aesthetic, I took the vintage clothes long sleeve shirts aspect. Even though it’s not mentioned in the video, I also took the puka necklace aspect since that’s associated with vintage 90s-early 2000s vibe + associated with surfers.

and then finally from the surgeon/billionaire aspect, I took the color palette aspect (my clothes are all blue and white) and the old money clothing aesthetic. The old money clothing style needs its own post because there is a lot of people who do it wrong and I need to explain how I do old money.

 

[Spike]

first what you don’t want to do

while both these are old money clothing items. Polos, button ups and khakis. They are not the right silhouette. It doesn’t give the right old money vibes you're trying to communicate. It just gives office worker who doesn’t know what style is in. Which is extremely important to the 18-24 year old demographic.

so for the right aesthetic, I started my search looking at this article on GQ that was talking to the costume designer of the movie Saltburn. Starring Jacob Elordi. The movie takes place in the early 00s. And they are going to the the prestigious Oxford university. She said in the article that to style the actors and actresses in the movie she took inspiration from the way that prince william used to dress in the late 90s.

Relaxed cut silhouettes is the right fit you want to communicate this old money aesthetic.

So I looked for vintage long sleeved relaxed cut (pirate archetype) polos from places like Tommy Hilfiger, and Polo Ralph Lauren (billionaire archetype), and wear it with baggy jeans (pirate/billionaire archetype) in the same color wash as the pic above. And doc marten tassel loafers (vampire/billionaire archetype) as my shoes.

This way if a girl is looking for someone that fits she vampire/werewolf archetype (high risk) she’ll pay attention to parts she wants to pay attention to: my rings, tattoos, muscles and jewelry.

And for the low risk girls, I dress exactly like how her type dresses. Covering up my tattoos by wearing a long sleeve polo shirt helps in reducing the fear in that I’ll kill them, manipulate them or be broke.

That should about cover it. Any questions. Ask away

 

[JT Sunshine]

Really interesting stuff here @Spike. I’ve never thought about a girls aversion or non-aversion to risk (or attraction to risk even) playing a part in which male archetype she will initially be attracted to. I’ve always thought that it was more based on what stereotypical “group” they fall into - goth girls go for goth guys, preppy girls for preppy guys etc with of course the exception for someone who has really solid game.

I probably most naturally fall into the old money category, being an athletic white guy with hair style similar to that style. However my arms are all tatted up, and if I wore all black and some jewelry I could easily fit a more “risky” look. Lately I’ve been rocking a bit of a hybrid look without thinking too much about it (I typically just wear clothes that I think look really good on me).

Curious if I was to play up the old money look if I’d have better results at more country/suburban venues (long Island girls of the Midwest) versus playing up the riskier, more dangerous look at bigger EDM/hip-hop dance clubs, which attract girls primarily from the city. You seem be rocking a bit of a hybrid archetype, have you found the old money style with tattoos jewelry to do better or worse with a certain type of girl?

 

[KJ Francis]

I’ve always thought that it was more based on what stereotypical “group” they fall into - goth girls go for goth guys, preppy girls for preppy guys etc

@Chase posted something interesting in an article this week:

"Girls who dress a certain way respond 23% better to guys dressed in the same fashion. (study)"

Maybe it's like a visual cue for attitude similarity within the social tribe to match who they're looking for... Goth girl needs a guy OK with her preserving dead snakes and lizards in vials (real example I met recently). Preppy girl needs a guy who will be accepted by her social circle, etc.

I think Spike is presenting like a Rorschach test, letting each girl see the aspects she wants to see. The neck tats are also permanent so the more preppy stuff could balance it and not be too unattainable if going more vampire.

I wouldn't call it old money though. Old money doesn't really wear brands you've heard of, or anything with a logo or recognition. They're more about fabric quality and dressing for the exact occasion. New money wears the logos.

I think Spike nailed it though... It's like 90's boy band dreamboat without shedding the danger side. I would not model boy bands like NSYNC, BSB, etc. cause they dress weird as fuck... But it's like preppy guy who listens to hip hop. Puka necklace was a cool choice.

Honestly JT I would think a Midwestern girl in her baggy denim and leather jacket would have a Tim Allen Home Improvement fantasy. Another trend I've seen is girls wearing full length overcoats over casual gear. Maybe their fantasy is the high status finance guy.

 

[Spike]

Old money doesn't really wear brands you've heard of, or anything with a logo or recognition

You must have missed the part where I quoted the costume designer from saltburn where she listed the preppy brands she got her inspiration from for the movie.

prince William is also wearing a Ralph Lauren crew neck in the photo.

 

[Spike]

I think Spike is presenting like a Rorschach test, letting each girl see the aspects she wants to see.

Yeah that’s pretty good way to describe it. Just enough of each archetype to capture whichever type she has.

goth girls go for goth guys, preppy girls for preppy guys

Goth girls will see goth. Preppy girls will see preppy.

Lately I’ve been rocking a bit of a hybrid look without thinking too much about it

That’s good that you naturally arrived here. That means now that you’re consciously aware of this now. You can tweak a couple things to better fit the archetype im describing in this post.

ou seem be rocking a bit of a hybrid archetype, have you found the old money style with tattoos jewelry to do better or worse with a certain type of girl?

I’ve only being experimenting with this look for 2 weeks. Only thing I’ve noticed so far is preppy girls giving me IOIs vs not paying attention to me.

 

[KJ Francis]

prince William is also wearing a Ralph Lauren crew neck in the photo.

Yes royals are more like celebrities cultivating a public image. Most old money would wear a wool sweater from a Scottish mill or something that's been around for hundreds of years, not Ralph Lauren...

They don't wear brand name suits. They go to tailors and get them made bespoke from fabric swatches. Tommy is sold to the common folk at outlet malls...

Movies also need touch points and references the audience would understand... Probably same with you too so it catches a girl's attention. Sure it's "preppy" but not "old money".

 

[Spike]

Movies also need touch points and references the audience would understand... Probably same with you too so it catches a girl's attention.

Yes brother that’s the whole point. A girl sees me in a vintage Tommy Hilfiger, or polo Ralph Lauren sweater. Which SHE (the girl your trying to lay ) associates with old money because that’s what media (instagram/tiktok) tells her is old money. You’re basically hacking social media for your own seduction goals. I’m not the first to make this discovery

 

[Spike]

From the GQ article:

 

[KJ Francis]

Yeah if there's no uniform (blazer, repp stripe tie), a campus is going to be bummy denim, sweats, and athletic stuff (like tommy... classic american sportswear)... at most formal maybe an oxford cloth button down ivy style. Someone from old money is not going to overdress for the occasion.

Tommy and Ralph are still worn a lot by your average upper middle class adult. It is like what a soccer mom or dentist wears to the grocery store. So you may remind a 19 year old girl of her uncle or neighbor and seem a little safer and from her social class to help balance the neck tattoos. It will not hint you are some old money archduke's nephew though.

 

[JT Sunshine]

@Chase posted something interesting in an article this week:

"Girls who dress a certain way respond 23% better to guys dressed in the same fashion. (study)"

Maybe it's like a visual cue for attitude similarity within the social tribe to match who they're looking for... Goth girl needs a guy OK with her preserving dead snakes and lizards in vials (real example I met recently). Preppy girl needs a guy who will be accepted by her social circle, etc.

I'll have to read that. Went to two venues tonight with very different vibes, and was dressed somewhere in the middle. Initial responses from the girls I talked to were very lukewarm both places. Interested to see if I style myself strictly to one type if things open better

Honestly JT I would think a Midwestern girl in her baggy denim and leather jacket would have a Tim Allen Home Improvement fantasy. Another trend I've seen is girls wearing full length overcoats over casual gear. Maybe their fantasy is the high status finance guy.

I could see both working. Got the wheels turning now, I should figure out if a girl has anything broken at her place and tell her I'll come fix it if she makes me a drink first